Tandy was slapping the TRS-80 name on everything. The original TRS-80 line, with the Z80, was actually two mutually incompatible lines: the Model I/3/4 line and the Model II/12/16/6000 line. Then there was the CoCo line, which used 6809s, their various 4- and 8-bit pocket computers, and the MC-10. The final computer to bear the TRS-80 badge was 1983's Tandy 2000 (in full, Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 Micro Computer). Tandy was moving away from TRS-80 branding and replacing "Radio Shack" with "Tandy" on the name badges to cultivate a more business friendly image and move away from the TRS-80's reputation as a dodgy machine ("TRASH-80") for tinkerers only. Still a lot of bodge wires on the motherboards though!
Back in '83 or '84 I got an an Apple III - expanded to the maximum 512 KB. My dad gave it to me. Cost $7,800! In addition to the built-in floppy drive I had an external double-sided double-density floppy drive and a C.Itoh printer. I had one game for it. Everything else was for business. The software that I used the most with it was called 3 Easy Pieces, consisting of a Word Processor, Programable Database, and Spreadsheet.
A most fascinating documentary, great work. Adding to your list, could you consider the Atari Falcon, the short lived successor to the Atari ST? The Apple IIGS could be another one to add, being a sort of middle ground between the Mac and the Apple II family of machines.
Our first PC was an Amstrad 1512 in 1987. Came with Bruce Lee, Dam busters, PSI5 trading company and Pro Wrestling on disk, along with the GEM package. It was the first system I played Elite and Prince of Persia on.
Same here but no games (though I eventually got Elite, Ultima IV, The Guild of Thieves… great stuff even with just the PC beeper and that Amstrad b&w monitor with those gaping scanlines)
I briefly used one of those CBM-II machines at a temp job in about 1986. I remember that it looked stylish but outdated (the green monitor and curvy shape of the base) but my main takeaway was how painfully slow the disk drives were. I had an Atari XL and ZX Spectrum with microdrive at home and friends mocked the speed of Atari disks and Sinclair Microdrives, but the CBM-II was something else. I remember the CBM taking around 15 minutes to format a floppy disk! Thanks for a grea video and reminding me of this obscure machine!
An interesting and entertaining video. They were obscure, I never heard of them. The trouble is; I never heard of systems like the MSX computer until recently.
As a kid of the early 2000s, everything Pre-WindowsXP is a fascinating discovery and story. Also been having fun trying to assemble a XP Era pc complete with floppy and CD/DVD drive just for the challenge and nostalgia, and will probably test running Linux and XP on it since I've moved my modern Desktop and laptop to Linux around the release of the Steamdeck
I wasn't aware of the Atari transputer, but I do remember ads for the Amiga transputer card. It was a cool idea, but I have no idea if anyone actually used them. Tandy/Radio Shack really were in a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" mode. They weren't concerned with backwards compatibility, and this allowed them to get lucky a few important times. But they really did just have a bunch of incompatible systems on sale at the same time, in different price brackets so they were "low end" vs "mid range" vs "high end". Never mind the incompatibility, that's just how it was back then. The Commodore CBM-II line wasn't so confusing, it just wasn't a compelling choice compared to the IBM PC. The P line was cancelled before launch, when they realized no one would want one rather than the C64. So for all practical purposes, CBM-II is synonymous with the B line.
My sequence: Heathkit ET3400A microprocessor trainer kit, ZX80 kit, VIC20, Atari 400, Atari 800XL, Atari 1040STf and while still owning that, an mint condition open box Commodore PC20-III system with monitor for $300, then a self-built Am386DX-40 system and self-built PCs all using AMD CPUS ever since.
First, a very minor correction: the P in P500 stood for "Professional", not "Personal". The B stood for business, as the video correctly says. My fav CBM-II story: In early 1985, right after the Commodore 128 was announced, but not yet released, PROTECTO Enterprises, who was liquidating NTSC CBM-II machines in the U.S., ran ads in ALL the major 8-bit magazines of the day offering 'A New 128K Commodore Computer!'. The bundle was a Commodore B128 with CBM 8050 disk drive. In hindsight, it was clear they were intentionally trying to get buyers by confusing the machine with the announced C128.
The CBM2 looks nice, as in the 'B' version with 80 column text. Yes colour etc is nice, however a lot of them really suck when it comes to coding your next game, 40 columns of colour artefacts does nothing good to my eyes. (in the day)
I've actually seen a CBM-II in person, back in the 80's. I believe it was a "B" series machine, and was owned by a friend of mine. The style was certainly interesting, but I don't remember being able to actually do much with the machine, and software of course wasn't available. Soon after my friend moved on to the Tandy 1000, and I don't remember what became of that C= machine.
@@TheLairdsLair is it? That is one of the only systems I do not have. Maybe the videos I saw made the frame rate look worse than it is. Oh, and I was hoping when I got a PS1, we would get a port true to the arcade.
I didn't own one, but I think the Commodore MAX was a fairly obscure model that was only released in Japan. With only 2K of RAM, an abdominal membrane keyboard, and no built in BASIC, it's not clear what Commodore's intended market for a striped down C64 was supposed to be.
@@TheLairdsLair Yep, computer/console hybrids rarely do well. BTW, I really enjoyed the obscure computers video. Of all of the ones mentioned, I'd only heard of the Alice. It was briefly mentioned on another channel as a tour of his collection, but he gave no explanation of what it was. The 8bit era was full of random systems pushed out by just about every major electronics manufacturer and most faded into obscurity when the 16bit generation landed.
I owned an MC-10 It had similarities to the Color Computer and used the same tape format but Basic was incompatible I found it possible to assemble binary programs on the Coco that would load and run on the MC-10
Just started watching your videos, wanted to say great work. I really enjoy them! I do have a question, at the beginning of the videos a female digitized voice says something. What is it? It sounds like, "Welcome Gun runner" to me
Much of the CBM-II section has the game music coming through only the left stereo channel, which is a bit uncomfortable if you're listening on headphones. Another very interesting video though 😃
What about the Z80 based Epson QX-10 and QX-11 "Abacus"? This second seems to be rare, it was an upgrade of the former but with 3 1/2" floppies and a graphics mode (still mono). I suppose they were meant for boring business use.
@6:51 Philips didn't invent the MSX standard - that was Kazuhiko Nishi. The Commodore PCs actually wasn't that obscure: Escom purchased Commodore primarily to get their hands on the Commodore brand name as it was apparently well known in Europe for PCs. They'd wanted to market a new range of PCs under the brand.
You could have had the Atari ST Book, only around 1000 ever made, fragile and many thought it was never released. Having owned one, it had features that modern laptops are only just catching up with. Shape Atari went the way they did, poor forward planning brought them down before their time
I covered the ST book as part of my video last week and it doesn't quite fit with the subject here given it was laptop and produced almost exclusively for musicians,
I just looked again and actually you're right, it is a UK number because those are UK retailers listed. It was the format that totally threw me and the 01 made me think it was a US number. Our phone numbers are nothing like that now, they always start with a code that is at least 4 digits long (often 5) and then a further 6 digit phone number. So that number wouldn't work now anyway.
The Sinclair APC is a "desktop" form factor, not a "pizza box" form factor. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor A pizza box does not admit vertically-oriented plug-in cards as the Sinclair APC did.
Tandy was slapping the TRS-80 name on everything. The original TRS-80 line, with the Z80, was actually two mutually incompatible lines: the Model I/3/4 line and the Model II/12/16/6000 line. Then there was the CoCo line, which used 6809s, their various 4- and 8-bit pocket computers, and the MC-10. The final computer to bear the TRS-80 badge was 1983's Tandy 2000 (in full, Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 Micro Computer). Tandy was moving away from TRS-80 branding and replacing "Radio Shack" with "Tandy" on the name badges to cultivate a more business friendly image and move away from the TRS-80's reputation as a dodgy machine ("TRASH-80") for tinkerers only. Still a lot of bodge wires on the motherboards though!
Yeah, it was absolutely mental!
Coco 3 was my first computer ❤ and Tandy 1000 was my first pc - wow things have come so far 😮😅
I love retro computer and video game history, your content is excellent, thank you and please keep making it :)
Back in '83 or '84 I got an an Apple III - expanded to the maximum 512 KB. My dad gave it to me. Cost $7,800! In addition to the built-in floppy drive I had an external double-sided double-density floppy drive and a C.Itoh printer. I had one game for it. Everything else was for business. The software that I used the most with it was called 3 Easy Pieces, consisting of a Word Processor, Programable Database, and Spreadsheet.
Commodore is not a story of a successful company with a few failures. It's a story of a shitty company with a few accidental successes.
A most fascinating documentary, great work. Adding to your list, could you consider the Atari Falcon, the short lived successor to the Atari ST? The Apple IIGS could be another one to add, being a sort of middle ground between the Mac and the Apple II family of machines.
Our first PC was an Amstrad 1512 in 1987. Came with Bruce Lee, Dam busters, PSI5 trading company and Pro Wrestling on disk, along with the GEM package. It was the first system I played Elite and Prince of Persia on.
Same here but no games (though I eventually got Elite, Ultima IV, The Guild of Thieves… great stuff even with just the PC beeper and that Amstrad b&w monitor with those gaping scanlines)
I have a lot of videos to catch up on, on this channel. I love the obscure content.
I briefly used one of those CBM-II machines at a temp job in about 1986. I remember that it looked stylish but outdated (the green monitor and curvy shape of the base) but my main takeaway was how painfully slow the disk drives were.
I had an Atari XL and ZX Spectrum with microdrive at home and friends mocked the speed of Atari disks and Sinclair Microdrives, but the CBM-II was something else. I remember the CBM taking around 15 minutes to format a floppy disk!
Thanks for a grea video and reminding me of this obscure machine!
The Atari Falcon030 was pretty obscure. It has a commercial production life of a year and perhaps another year after C-Lab bought the IP in 1995.
Great Job, K!
An interesting and entertaining video. They were obscure, I never heard of them. The trouble is; I never heard of systems like the MSX computer until recently.
As a kid of the early 2000s, everything Pre-WindowsXP is a fascinating discovery and story.
Also been having fun trying to assemble a XP Era pc complete with floppy and CD/DVD drive just for the challenge and nostalgia, and will probably test running Linux and XP on it since I've moved my modern Desktop and laptop to Linux around the release of the Steamdeck
I wasn't aware of the Atari transputer, but I do remember ads for the Amiga transputer card. It was a cool idea, but I have no idea if anyone actually used them.
Tandy/Radio Shack really were in a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" mode. They weren't concerned with backwards compatibility, and this allowed them to get lucky a few important times. But they really did just have a bunch of incompatible systems on sale at the same time, in different price brackets so they were "low end" vs "mid range" vs "high end". Never mind the incompatibility, that's just how it was back then.
The Commodore CBM-II line wasn't so confusing, it just wasn't a compelling choice compared to the IBM PC. The P line was cancelled before launch, when they realized no one would want one rather than the C64. So for all practical purposes, CBM-II is synonymous with the B line.
Supposedly the P line was sold in Germany, all the pictures I found of them were from German owners so this did seem to check out.
My sequence: Heathkit ET3400A microprocessor trainer kit, ZX80 kit, VIC20, Atari 400, Atari 800XL, Atari 1040STf and while still owning that, an mint condition open box Commodore PC20-III system with monitor for $300, then a self-built Am386DX-40 system and self-built PCs all using AMD CPUS ever since.
First, a very minor correction: the P in P500 stood for "Professional", not "Personal". The B stood for business, as the video correctly says.
My fav CBM-II story:
In early 1985, right after the Commodore 128 was announced, but not yet released, PROTECTO Enterprises, who was liquidating NTSC CBM-II machines in the U.S., ran ads in ALL the major 8-bit magazines of the day offering 'A New 128K Commodore Computer!'. The bundle was a Commodore B128 with CBM 8050 disk drive. In hindsight, it was clear they were intentionally trying to get buyers by confusing the machine with the announced C128.
Did I say personal? Must have been a misspeak because my script says professional - doh!
That's a great story though, and a very sly move indeed!
The CBM2 looks nice, as in the 'B' version with 80 column text. Yes colour etc is nice, however a lot of them really suck when it comes to coding your next game, 40 columns of colour artefacts does nothing good to my eyes. (in the day)
The Lisa? That seemed short lived.
I've actually seen a CBM-II in person, back in the 80's. I believe it was a "B" series machine, and was owned by a friend of mine. The style was certainly interesting, but I don't remember being able to actually do much with the machine, and software of course wasn't available. Soon after my friend moved on to the Tandy 1000, and I don't remember what became of that C= machine.
Wow, nice to hear somebody with personal experience of one!
I remember the transputer in New Scientist when I was in college.
The Sinclair APC sounds very similar to the NEC APC, an early line of PCs made by NEC from 1982 to 1986.
Great video thanks
Which game does the "Welcome gun runner" audio in the title come from? I have heard this before and it is driving me half mad.
"Welcome STUN Runner!" from the Lynx port of the Atari arcade game STUN Runner.
I've always misheard it exactly as you have until today!
@@boffyb stun runner was such a perfect blend of racing and tempest. I am so sad the ports of it suck
Not all the ports suck, the Atari Lynx version is absolutely fantastic.
@@TheLairdsLair is it? That is one of the only systems I do not have. Maybe the videos I saw made the frame rate look worse than it is.
Oh, and I was hoping when I got a PS1, we would get a port true to the arcade.
I didn't own one, but I think the Commodore MAX was a fairly obscure model that was only released in Japan. With only 2K of RAM, an abdominal membrane keyboard, and no built in BASIC, it's not clear what Commodore's intended market for a striped down C64 was supposed to be.
I've actually done a whole video on the MAX!
ua-cam.com/video/0kwq-UJll7k/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TheLaird%27sLair
@@TheLairdsLair Yep, computer/console hybrids rarely do well.
BTW, I really enjoyed the obscure computers video. Of all of the ones mentioned, I'd only heard of the Alice. It was briefly mentioned on another channel as a tour of his collection, but he gave no explanation of what it was. The 8bit era was full of random systems pushed out by just about every major electronics manufacturer and most faded into obscurity when the 16bit generation landed.
BTW, Porsche Design is not the same company as the car maker. The founders just are family.
I owned an MC-10
It had similarities to the Color Computer and used the same tape format but Basic was incompatible
I found it possible to assemble binary programs on the Coco that would load and run on the MC-10
Just started watching your videos, wanted to say great work. I really enjoy them! I do have a question, at the beginning of the videos a female digitized voice says something. What is it? It sounds like, "Welcome Gun runner" to me
Welcome STUN Runner!
Taken from the Atari Lynx port of the Atari arcade game.
@@TheLairdsLair AAaahh! That makes a LOT more sense! Thanks!
Much of the CBM-II section has the game music coming through only the left stereo channel, which is a bit uncomfortable if you're listening on headphones.
Another very interesting video though 😃
That's weird, I never noticed that at all, but then I didn't listen with headphones.
What about the Z80 based Epson QX-10 and QX-11 "Abacus"? This second seems to be rare, it was an upgrade of the former but with 3 1/2" floppies and a graphics mode (still mono). I suppose they were meant for boring business use.
The bbc master compact is pretty obscure and there is a olivetti version that is even rarer, cud have included them.
Was that Atari commercial narrated by Jack Palance?
IT WAS! That guy was so cool his teeth were made of leather.
@6:51 Philips didn't invent the MSX standard - that was Kazuhiko Nishi. The Commodore PCs actually wasn't that obscure: Escom purchased Commodore primarily to get their hands on the Commodore brand name as it was apparently well known in Europe for PCs. They'd wanted to market a new range of PCs under the brand.
I didn't say Philips invented the MSX standard, I said they co-created the CD standard - I think you got confused there!
I personally owned all of these machines and developed several games for each. Nothing compared to the Amiga.
You developed several games for the ultra rare Atari Transputer Workstation? Got any links?
@The Laird's Lair 1 game for the Transputer. A crappy Moonshine Racers clone which was all lost when Atari cancelled the project
You could have had the Atari ST Book, only around 1000 ever made, fragile and many thought it was never released. Having owned one, it had features that modern laptops are only just catching up with. Shape Atari went the way they did, poor forward planning brought them down before their time
I covered the ST book as part of my video last week and it doesn't quite fit with the subject here given it was laptop and produced almost exclusively for musicians,
Have you called the phone number on the commercial at the end of this video to see if it still works?
Can't say I have, but it's an American number and I'm in the U.K. Would be interesting if somebody did though.
@@TheLairdsLair oh lol! I thought it was a UK number because we in the states use a
1-xxx-xxx-xxxx series of numbers 🤷
I just looked again and actually you're right, it is a UK number because those are UK retailers listed. It was the format that totally threw me and the 01 made me think it was a US number. Our phone numbers are nothing like that now, they always start with a code that is at least 4 digits long (often 5) and then a further 6 digit phone number. So that number wouldn't work now anyway.
How goes the book sales
Very good thanks
Osbourne Vixen. It killed the company and I have one. Total piece of crap!
I've never even heard of that! I'll have to look it up!
Taking a shot every time you mispronounce Perihelion and Helios 😂
How am I supposed to pronounce them then?
@@TheLairdsLair like you pronounce the word Helium..
The Sinclair APC is a "desktop" form factor, not a "pizza box" form factor. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor A pizza box does not admit vertically-oriented plug-in cards as the Sinclair APC did.
I never knew that, thanks for the clarification!