I had a classic rubber keyed spectrum which died after 11 and half weeks and got a Spectrum+ as a replacement. When the 128k toastrack came out I got one. There were a few games which took advantage of the extra capabilties but I got as much pleasure out of learning to use the back switching RAM and the sound chip through programming. I got an Amiga not long after and sold the 128k to a friend. I met my real life Amiga :) (who later became my wife) and she gave me the rubber-keyed 48k she had in the back of her wardrobe so I came full circle with the spectrum, and I've still got the rubber-keyed spectrum and wife 30+ years later.
A few minor corrections regarding the Spectrum 128 part: Sir Clive didn't use Sinclair Research funds for Sinclair Vehicles, he actually sold a stake in Sinclair Research to fund his vehicle venture. Sinclair Research was hurting financially, but for two unrelated reasons: The commercial failure of the Sinclair QL, and, according to Tony Tebby at least (Tebby wrote the QL operating system, and met with Nigel Searle, Sir Clive's underling, after the sale to Amstrad, after trying to work out why he wasn't getting the royalties he expected), rampant theft and corruption going on within the company. The Spectrum 128 was launched in Spain first but not because it was developed there (it might have been, but I suspect most of the development work happened in the UK, I can't see any company other than Sinclair thinking the Spectrum+ keyboard was worth keeping.) Instead, according to the sources I've read, there were huge numbers of unsold Spectrum+s in Sinclair's inventory, and they wanted to clear those out before selling the 128. The Spectrum+ was never as popular as the Spectrum 48k, it was 50GBP more expensive at one point, and the keyboard just didn't matter - it wasn't good enough for those who wanted a good keyboard, and game players didn't care what type of keyboard they had, so between that, ramped up competition from Commodore (who was trying to kill TI) and to a lesser extent Acorn, and the fact it was a two year old computer that nobody wanted to buy new and nobody had any reason to upgrade to, it was a relative flop and Sinclair Research severely overestimated demand. I could quibble about saying Amstrad discontinued the 128, it's more they enhanced the system, the +2 and +3 were, after all, continuations of the same base Spectrum 128 system, with only the +3 having a significantly changed motherboard. I wonder, if the QL had been the SuperSpectrum some in Sinclair Research were pushing for, if it would have been on this list.
I upgraded from a C64 to a C128 in ‘85 and never regretted the decision. In fact, it was my favorite 8-bit machine of all time. Later, I bought an Amiga 500, which became my primary machine but I kept my C128 around to play all the C64 games I still loved. In fact, I adapted some public domain programs that booted and loaded games in C128 mode and then switched to C64 mode automatically to run the games. And instead of the C128 as an example of a failure I would have listed the Plus4/C16 instead for the following reasons: 1) They were completely incompatible with the C64 and were inferior to it in terms of graphics (no sprites!). I also think it took resources from developing a compatible machine like the C128. It certainly delayed the C128 by at least a year. 2) As you said, it sold over 2.5 million units. 3) And as several posters have said, it was an excellent machine for running BBSs. My only quibble with the C128 is that CBM should have realized that CP/M was nearly dead in 1985. I ran some CP/M programs on my C128 just to prove they work but never did it again. If they hadn’t included CP/M compatibility they could have sold the C128 for a much lower price.
The 128 is my personal favorite computer of the era, burst mode, double side, and 80 column, along with goes made it just as good as a Macintosh for writing. Love it
Its crazy that the 128k released without including an update to remove colour clash. It could have been a genuine better version of the Speccy and still back compatible with some forward thinking rather than thinking it was just the RAM that would be sufficient. This shows a lack of understanding sadly which is understandable given the young age of the computer.
Amstrad's plan to release tape software on £20 cartridges was crazy and again shows a lack of understanding of the gaming market. The Amstrad was an incredible machine that never saw it's potential realised - modern remakes of games using the power of the Amstrad rather than Spectrum ports show what it can do and it is such a great system.
I bought myself a Commodore 64 in 1984, the first year I started earning a pay cheque. I would have loved to have owned an Amiga, but I could just not afford it.
Both the C128 and the toast rack Spectrum 128K are my favourite 8-bit home computer designs in terms of looks and functionality. Unfortunately, both were too little too late in the market to make any impact and ended up running older software in backwards compatibility mode, never really showing off their true potential
I had the Spectrum 128K. I used to have to keep a supply of 2p coins handy: I’d stack them in the heat sink’s slots, then swap them out for a different set every ten minutes or so, to take some heat away from the unit. Subsequently, I’ve read that it’s only necessary because Sinclair used a cheap (quel surprise!) voltage regulator that put out ridiculous quantities of heat. It seems that hobbyists who still want to compute or game on e-waste like the Spectrum in the modern era change out that component and have a much more comfortable computing experience.
8 bit computers with gaming features died in the late 80s-early 90s with the first 16 bit console arrival and IBM PCs being shipped with VGA and soundcards. Actually if IBM released a combo video+sound cards every 2-3 years increasing capabilities for the PC during the 80s, it would accelerate this, but they did not care about this market share. Video and sound capabilities on PCs developed and were adopted slowly during the 80s. During the 80s, IBM PC (with CGA + beeper) and some home consoles were pretty much outperformed by 8 bit computers that just offered more builtin audio and sound features. A c64 being sold for 299 usd was a no-brainer deal in mid-80s. 1990s onwards it as just the PC final step for domestic computing dominance, helped a lot by Microsoft that forced "Multimedia PC" specs, DirectX in mid-90s etc. By 1998 no other gaming+computing platform survived.
The C-128 lasted me all through grade school, middle school, and high school. Damn that computer was great. It was a great BBSing machine and could compete even with 386's online, but once the graphical internet started to take hold, the C-128 just couldn't keep up. Even just the raw RS-232 connection of the C-128 was just too slow for text internet. Ignoring the crappy Z80, the Commodore 128 was just built for a different, more civilized time.
My best home micro upgrade was from the 48K Speccy to the ZX Spectrum +3. Paired with a Romantic Robot Multiface 3 and a load of blank 3" disks, you were all set. Some 128K games were also worth the upgrade but not many :-) Keep up the awesome work!
Genuine disks could have been the making of the Spectrum, but instead we got the dreadful Microdrive - which also made the QL irrelevant for business use. Funny to think that Amstrad finally delivered... although I'd gone 16-bit by then.
Thanks for posting the Greek magazine advert of the Amstrad computers, at 3:28 ! Much appreciated !! (the slogan reads: "if you're looking for THE BEST"...)
The UK launch of the Spectrum 128 was delayed as to get some cash SInclair had sold their stock of QLs to Dixons and one of the conditions was that SInclair would not launch a new machine in the UK until after Christmas.
I think the PC's influence on both the CPC and C128 is massively understated. In 1985 PC compatibles had a 50% share of all new computer sales and that increased to 90% by 1990. A basic 8mhz turbo XT clone with 2 disk drives and 640k ram in 1987 sold for less than a C128 with one disk drive. By 1989 286s were cheaper than amigas and STs. No single manufacturer could compete with how much PC prices were dropping and how much more powerful they were getting every couple of years while maintaining full backwards compatibility. Apple only survived by focusing on niche markets and the only way commodore, amstrad or Atari would have survived in the computer market, would have been to establish their own niche.
My first ever go on a computer was a ZX Spectrum 48+, with Interface2 adaptor, micro-drive and a dial up modem. (my dad worked for BT and it was his, he used it for the very basic bulletin boards for work. Mid 80's) My own first computer was a ZX Spectrum+3 128Kb, which I still own, I got it new in on my 12th birthday in September 1987, the same year of release. Still have the box/manuals etc, although can no longer use it as the power supply is broken. It's a good machine and always served it's purpose to entertain me.
I'm sure you can replace the PSU internals with modern parts or pay someone to do it for relatively little. Of course you can just emulate all your favourites today but people insist on the authentic feel of loading the game from tape and playing on the original hardawre.
I did go down the 128k spectrum upgrade path and although it was a little disappointing in that there were no improvements to the graphics I think it was still a nice machine and my favourite of all the models. I do wonder how things would have turned out had Sinclair not wasted time and money on the electric vehicles and even the QL and focused on a better Spectrum successor such as the Super Spectrum code named Loki.
Clive Sinclair would have been much more important than Steve Jobs and computing would have been more oriented to programming than consumerism. A shame not only for him but for the world.
C128 was awesome. basic 7 included sprites and many awesome commands (replacing C64 pokes). my favourite was the speccy though. as a kid, i used sketch possible 16bit sinclair spectrums on paper. mimicking the ST/Amiga keyboards :) i wanted a 512k speccy so much, black case, 3,5" on the side.
The Commodore 128 was my very first computer. Unfortunately, I was only 5 years old and I only cared about the games (mostly cart based games). My family wanted to introduce me to technology as early as possible. As much as I am happy the way things turned out I think they made a huge misstep... The next year (1986) was a very different time than it was in 1985. In 1985 console gaming was considered stupid and a fad past its prime. People really didn't want anything to do with it and stores refused to carry them. However, by the time 1986 hit the Nes was becoming a juggernaut and parents absolutely bought into this..."it's not a video game console, it is a video entertainment system." My parents were among those that bought into the hype of a toy robot (Nes-Rob)and 3D glasses (SMS- 3D glasses). That Christmas of 1986 my mom got me am NES and my father not to be outdone picked up a Sega Master System (divorced parents). They each felt the new consoles would compliment the C-128 but that is not what happened. I, a stupid 6 year old, dropped the C-128 for the "much better" 8-bit consoles. This inadvertently turned me away from computers for a number of years (not good). I actually thought anyone using a computer to play games on was...kind of stupid (that was wrong). I didn't come out of this stupor until...1993 and you probably know why. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was in my dad's living room playing Street Fighter II (don't remember which version or system) when he came in the front door with what I thought was a cumbersome mess. He tried to get me interested in it...but Street Fighter was on and I was on a hot streak. Roughly an hour later I started hearing all kinds of crazy noises coming out of the computer room. "Why is my dad's work computer sounding like gunshots and death?!" I had to investigate and what I saw changed my life forever...Doom. In that instant I was both humbled and enthralled by what I saw. How was it in 3D?! How did it have graphics so far advanced to purpose built games machines it's as if they weren't even in the same league (they weren't)?! How is it producing sound quality that was beyond anything I had ever heard before?! From that point forward I did everything I could to get my very own copy of Doom. My dad wound up getting a 486DX2@66MHz parts computer from his work and the rest is history. Well...aside from me showing my friends that our Sega Genesis/Sega CD, Snes, TG-16's, ect...were no match for a PC. I even stopped drueling over Neo Geo AES spreads in gaming mags. Now, of course I will never stop console gaming but nothing will ever replace PC gaming either. They do compliment each other well even today... My top computer games of 199X- ;) Doom/Doom 2 Xcom Wing Commander X-Wing Tie-Fighter Dark Forces Quake (straining to run) Wolfenstein 3D Desent
I think the SPectrum eventually did come with 512k or even multiple megabytes, though I'm not sure if these models were Spectrums in anything but name. There is not a lot of information in English about the Russian/Eastern block Spectrums. From what I understand, the Spectrum got a second life in former Eastern block countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I own an Atari 1200XL - after it was discontinued, my parents bought me one when a big box store was selling them for $99. It's a flawed system to be sure, as there are isolated compatibility issues with old 400/800 software and the positioning of the cartridge slot renders it difficult to use some third-party cartridges, but at the same time the system had some features that were ahead of its time. It had on-board diagnostics, for example. It still works 40 years later, too!
The 1200XL looked fantastic and had the best keyboard of any 8-bit machine. Pity about the compatibility issues, which killed it in the marketplace. When the 1200XL came out, the Atari 800 rapidly sold out as users rushed to buy the older machine before it became unavailable.
@@TheLairdsLair Because you can run C128 mode and C64 mode at the same time, connecting one monitor to Composite and the other to RGB, you can run two monitors. Technically. If it's practical I don't know tho.
My journey: C64 --> Amiga 500 --> Amiga 2000 --> 486DX PC. The C128 had no interrest at all, not doing any better than the C64 (same chips, same speed)
I moved from my C64 to a C128D mainly because my C1541floppy drive was starting to become harder to align. Really liked it and in combination with C1581 drive & Geos was a viable system into the 90's since I could swap disks with my office PC. Having said that I really wouldn't say it was a failure by any measure, maybe just an unaviodable deadend.
Going from a Vic20 to C128 was a massive jump. The 80 column was great for terminals to visit BBSs. Graphics mode native to basic was as entertaining as any game. But had I gone from C64 to C128… I don’t think I’d been as impressed.
Commodore's handling of the 80 column mode was terrible. It is such a bad design. What they should have done was come up with a VIC III. Though I suppose it is possible it would have broken at least some 64 games which expected a real ViC II (VIC II is the graphics chip in a 64)
14:09 After 42 long years, the C64 now has a proper version of Burgerime. Brought to you by none other than Arlasoft. It was released like a month ago. This guy is on a roll!
You had a lot more choice in the 8 bit micro pc arena in the UK and Europe. In the U.S. we mainly had the Apple IIs, Atari 400/800/XL/XE, Commodore Vic-20/C64/C128. Of course you also had IBM PCs but people really didn't buy those for gaming or for your regular home use. The TRS-80 was also around but that was really lacking compared to the others.
It was a tricky time for 8-bit owners as it was obvious an era was coming to an end. It felt like industry and customers alike were all looking at each other to see what would happen next. Had someone produced a faster 8-bit machine with no colour clash and a bump in resolution I'd have probably bought one if only to tinker with it. However I soon realised that put me in a minority and the chances of such a machine emerging any time soon were slim. I found the following years a bit frustrating and the occasional highlights such as The Chaos Engine and Wolfenstein 3D felt few and far between. I think the simple fact is that for a few brief years we were spoiled. The hardware at least toward the end was cheap and there were some standout games. When it ended it was hard to take.
I remember ordering the Plus keyboard from Sinclair so I could turn my base 48k into a plus. There was so much room inside I soldered a cursor joystick port in too. They must have had 1000's of spare keyboards.
The main problem with the CPC Plus range is that it was a few years too late - 1990 wasn't time for a new 8-bit home micro, being squeezed by the consoles and the M60k machines.
Great video! Having grown up with a Portuguese Speccy clone, when I saw the title of the video, my mind gravitated towards the SAM Coupe. It was kinda being marketed as the "Super Spectrum" back then, as it was supposed to be quite Speccy-compatible, but I guess it was launched too late, at the end of the 8-bit era. My next computer after that was a 8086 machine (in which i ended up running one of the early MSDOS Speccy emulators :) ) Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
I sort of wanted the C128. The Spectrum 128 / +2 / +3 were already too late in the game. By that time people were looking to STs and Amigas. All the MSX lines had limited representation here, but they were selling well in Japan. I actually liked MSX1 and have two systems now. The CPC+ was also a very late joke. The 464+ even more so, because of the tape deck, at that point everyone was using floppies.
I had the Spectrum 128, but sold it quick for an Atari ST. The Spectrum was a reasonable upgrade on the Spetrum 48K, but to little, to late. At least, I made use of the huge memory for writing a GEM lookalike GUI for the Spectrum 128K. Not very functional, but it was easy to store screenshots on the RAM disc, which I used for restoring the background when closing a window.
I learned a scosh about the failure of the Sinclair C5 electric vehicle from an episode of Wallace and Grommit's World of Invention. Didn't know how much of an impact it had on his computer sales, though.
Clive Sinclair always made money with one invention and blew it all on the next: it was his way... don’t blame the C5, because it was always the pattern.
Dad got our rubber keyed 48K Speccy in 1983, a huge upgrade from the ZX81 we got in 82. In 1990 I got a second hand Grey 128 +2, by that point there was quite a lot of 128K games. I found it hard to program in 128K basic though, I was so used to single press keywords. LOL
@@TheLairdsLair Whenever I write a basic program on my rubber key Harlequin 128 I still do it in 48K mode. I've been using it so long It's basically muscle memory where they all are. Ha ha.
The commodore section: A lot of ridiculous high end machines were introduced during the 64. They failed miserably. The 64 chipset needed 80 column attributed text mode at least, even programmable characters, maybe even 16 sprites. They could have based a business machine on this, with higher clock offer increased resolution and colour depth, which would come to latter lower end 64 replacement, as the business machines went onto high spec. But instead, people were offered machines that made the IBM look like an alternative and hosed their PET range. You left out these range of failures, except one picture alongside the 64. One of these ranges even had the 64's 40 column chipset. They could have made it the 80 column Commodore 256 machine with better graphics and PET (popular 40 column versions) compatibility and scrap the rest. Unfortunately, they were known for mixing it up with incompatible models, rather than having strategy. The 128 had serious problems using the new graphics modes, port addressing. A serious failure. Some tricks have made some graphics modes possible, but speed I think still is an issue. The CPM was on the way down then anyway. Really a 1981-1983 move. You had to switch modes to play or use 64 graphics. Why didn't they make it available in 64 mode, and at least overlay the two graphics chips like graphic planes. Why didn't they just enhance the 64 graphic and sound chip, use a faster 65xx chip, scrap the cpm z80, 6845 semi compatible chip, and introduce it as a deluxe 64 upgrade? The Amiga was pipe dream too expensive. The 128 was expensive, but doing an cheap enhanced 64 with 80 column text and enhanced graphics, instead, wasn't going to compete much with the machine people couldn't afford. Next, the plus 4 range, was something Jack wanted. When Jack left, it went undernourished. It would have been good to upgrade the 64 chipset into a 80 column mode and use this as an upgrade. Even a simpler 40 column no sprite circuit for the 16 that looked like a subset of the 64 to developers, if they really wanted to cut do.wn But, it didn't have the included software at the level intended, there were speed problems accessing the limited graphics. It was just too little in competition. We wondered what they were thinking when it came out, but seeing it years later with GEOS in QVGA, sort of gives the idea of how good it could have been in 640x200+. The Atari 7800, was simply undernourished against the 64 and SNES in Japan, at its intended release, and much worse years latter when it was released, where they should have had more memory, better graphics, 16 bit 6502. It needed to match the competition coming in the next couple of years in 1983. As you can see, one glaring issue with the games is a large lack of background playfields. Simple black back grounds did not look as good. If they had released as intended, but with more memory and a good background plane, they would have been very competitive for years, with people buying instead of Amiga. The Atari computers made the mistake of charging more for 1970's graphics. The 7800 chipset was next generation, blitter, and capable of a lot more than the 7800 supported. The design in the home computers or the ST, would have been an improvement.
I forgot. I think the creators of the 7800 hardware may have been planning something based on its technology before or after the Atari deal. I saw something at one time, but can't remember if it was that company.
Did upgrade from Atari 520 STFM to a 1040 STE. The STE line. It was not many games that did support the STE blitter and new sound system. So the next thing was a spanking new PC 386 DX-25 with Adlib card.
There was a big difference between the Spanish and the British Spectrum 128. The Spanish hasn't the menú system but has a wordproccessor in ROM that used the keypad. The British one hasn't that thing. And this is why they missed the Christmas opportunity. Nevertheless, the +2 (grey) is almost the same 128 board with another case. The real improvement was the +2a/+3.
I felt that the Plus/4 was more of a failure. Hence, Commodore brought out the C128 the following year. Many friends in high school were upgrading to the C128 to run their BBSs entirely with 1571 and 1581 drives.
Agree 💯. The release of the C16/Plus 4 was one of the worst decisions ever made by Commodore. And yes, C128 BBS software was much better than what you could get on the C64.
The revisions to the OS of the 1200XL was to add new features. Compatibility problems were due to software writers not following compatibility guidelines - instead of using the proper vectors, they made software / games which jumped directly to OS routines. However, the XL & XE lines have a nice trick - they can switch out the ROM OS and load another in the underlying RAM. And hence the Atari Translator, FixXL, and others were born.
To be fair, some changes to the 1200XL OS were stupid, even changing addresses that were included in the BASIC manual. They fixed the worst of the compatibility issues in the OS released with the 800XL. There was also a new revision for the 1200XL, but they never released it, as they computer was discontinued before they ran out of the first run of ROMs. There are very few programs that have trouble on the 800XL, with there being far more that fail on the original 800, mostly because they use the extended RAM in the XL/XE line. The 1200XL is widely regarded today as the Atari 8-bit with the best keyboard, though almost all of them require repair work due to a mylar delamination problem as they age (I may have the technical wording wrong there). Upgrading to the unreleased ROM or installing one of the upgrades that let you select from a number of different OS ROMs eliminates the compatibility issues. There are problems with a few modern homebrew cartridges that are just a little too big for the slot, but I don't think that was a problem with any commercial cartridges. It lacked the expansion bus of later Ataris, but it was hardly ever used (which is a real shame).
Also, the 1200XL could also run the translator to use a different ROM, but by the time it was released, the marketing damage was done. Technically, the 800XL was just as good or better than the 1200XL in almost every way.
I love the design and aesthetic of the C128 but it’s obvious why it failed and Commodore should have been more forward thinking, especially after acquiring the massively superior Amiga. Building a ‘slightly better C64’ with CPM compatibility was never going to inspire developers to target if specifically when they could just target the C64. It was the PS4 Pro of its day; just not big enough an upgrade.
My friend had a C128, and we played Jeopardy! on it, putting the most ridiculous answers to see what it would recognize. Surprisingly, it took nearly every answer (absurd, vulgar, or otherwise) and would say "Correct response!"😂
There stories that the C128 saved C= because the Amiga1000 was much to expensive and they needed some time to get the cheaper Amiga500 into production Sadly the C128 was much more expensive than the C64 therefore the C64 survived its successor
The Spectrum should have been that from day 1, or at least 1983. Atari should have never released the 1200 or 600XL and just done the 800XL, but that should have been updated to include a built in 80 column mode. Similar with the Commodore 128, that should have been canned and just had a 128K C64 with once again 80 column display. Many families wanted 80 column for simple word processing or business, and for that they could have just used a cheap CRT controller like the CPC and BBC.
How can people say the Commodore 128 is a failure, when the entire range of Amiga "computers" from A500 to A4000 sold aprox. 4 million units... The same amount as the C-128 did, and that was only a single model. Yes, I know of the C-128d and CR, but besides adding a 1571 drive to it, the computer was the same. -For me, the Commodore 128 was a success.
It's quite easy. Search for Commodore uk who stood for all sales of Commodore computers in the world. Some interesting numbers: Best selling Amiga model: The A500 series with aprox 2.6 million units sold. Amiga 1200: Aprox 120.000 units sold. A3000 & A4000 "Only a handful of units sold" Ofcause have you never seen the correct numbers of Amiga machines sold, as the Amiga community are usually overestimating it, what it can do, what sales it had, where the computer "ruled" . The Amiga were especially popular in places like Scandinavia and Northern Germany, but it didn't sell well in countries like France, Germany (In general), UK, USA etc. UPDATE: Errrhm... I mistakenly wrote 120.000 million A1200 sold. -If that was the case, we would be using Commodore machines today . Sorry
I don't believe the C128 qualifies as a failed upgrade. It was almost 100% backward compatible (do some research on titles for those inop). Included all the same elements people enjoyed about the C64. Was included in many school computer labs replacing previous C64, Tandy, and Apple II computers. It used all the same peripherals which is a must too.
The are two very cheap recent upgrades to the BBC micro that give outstanding improvements for less than £30. The first is a board which allows you to plug a raspberry Pi zero into the tube coprocessor interface of a BBC micro. This raspberry Pi zero can be programmed to emulate at very high speed the 6502, Z80, x86 or ARM coprocessors of the original BBC micro. The second upgrade is much faster but a little less compatible. The Archimedes was the first ARM 1 based computer and allowed people to run a 32 bit BBC basic under RiscOS on a much faster home computer. Now RiscOS has been ported to the Raspberry Pi which allows you to run programs up to 50 times faster than on the Archimedes. The BBC Basic Manual for RiscOS is based upon the old Archimedes BBC Basic manual with updates in 2017. BBC Basic for RiscOS includes an ARM assembler.
As someone who only recently got to experience 128k Sinclair machines for the first time (we never got them in Canada), I understand how the press' reaction was so unenthusiastic. 128k BASIC is pretty much just 48k BASIC where you type the commands one letter at a time, the colour clash is still there, there's still the same number of colours, there's still no way to save and load data from an onboard microdrive or floppy, and the keyboard is absolutely unbearable. The only really worthwhile feature is the sound chip. I really love the looks of the toastrack, and it's okay to type on in 48k BASIC, but the Amstrad Spectrums that followed are so much better at being used as 128k machines.
19:51 I used to drawl at that advert hoping to get one for xmas which I did. Upgraded over my 48k+ and discovering xmas day the built in tape deck was awful. Loaded about 30% of my game copies. Had to use my own tape player still for all my playground swappables. Loved the keyboard though.
The C128 was such a bodge. All it managed to do was draw sales away from the Amiga. The C64 deserved a successor like the Apple //gs, not the hodgepodge the 128 turned out to be.
I'll never understand why there was a need to waste time and money adding CP/M compatibility to everything. Few people actually seemed to use it on home computers. I was an Atari guy and have always wanted a 1200XL.
To hear someone whose native tongue is English say "The huge success of the MSX standard" is a little funny to me 😅but it sure is a lovely little machine! Was quite popular here in the Netherlands fortunately, as it had some cool early Konami games. I could certainly see a future video for failed 16 bit upgrades, fingers crossed eh?
I got the GX4000, not when it came out, but a couple of years later when it was new old stock and from memory only cost me something like literally £30 to buy. I managed to end up getting something like 7 or 8 games in total for it. I do still have it, but I don't think I've had it set up for probably about 20 years at this point. No reason why it wouldn't still work though, might try and dig it out and give it a go!
The Sinclair QL was intriguing at the time and might have done well had it come out a little cheaper and withiut the bugs. I stuck with the Speccy and C64 until the early Amstrad 286 PC came along.
The Atari 800XL (with disk drive) was the first Atari I owned, so didn't know about compatibility issues. I loved it and swapped loads of games for it. Unfortunately, the local shops had loads of magazines for the C64 but nothing for the Atari. Oh well.
In 1986 I really wanted a C128. It seemed like a great computer, and also seemed like it could have better games. But in my hometown nobody sold Commodores. So I bought a Spectrum +2. I did liked the +2 quite a bit, but it would have been amazing if I could buy the C128. Amazing video, as usual. Thank you so much
There is another turbo r computer . 2+ was also only release officially in Japan . Made by Sony , Sanyo and Panasonic . Msx2 systems could be upgraded .
Good video but must correct you on the Spectrum +2. While it visually resembled the CPC464 it had absolutely nothing in common with it inside. Early +2 machines (the grey ones) were largely a slightly reworked Spectrum 128 board with a tape drive added on. Later +2 machines (the black ones, identified as the +2a and +2b on boot up) had a board derived from the disc-based Spectrum +3, which itself was a significant redesign (introducing many hardware and software incompatibilities that didn't exist in the previous 128k models) and while these boards had strong design similarities with the cpc464/6128, it, like the original 128k and +2 spectrums, had no real similarity with their CPC cousins. They could not run CPC software and the only thing they did have in common software-wise was that the +2a/+2b/+3 could run a version of CP/M, not that there was really much software written for the Spectrum running CP/M, so it was largely pointless. The +3 was axed in 1990 due to poor sales, while the +2 carried on until 1992, seeing the humble Spectrum to its 10th birthday. Given the +2 was launched in 1986 just months after the 128, 6 years is not a bad run for a machine outdated at the point of launch and just shows that Alan Sugar was able to keep flogging basically the same machine and milking the Spectrum cash cow when Sir Clive had already thought it passed its prime, just a shame the original (and technically superior to many) Spectrum 128k didn't last as long!
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the Apple III considering it was shown in the intro. Other than that, very informative video as I knew some but not all of these models.
I didn't upgrade badly rather went thebwronf track. I loved the engineering and design my Memotech bit the promise was never fulfilled. Parents could never have afforded the BBC B......😢
Still loving that English Accent though :) I have an Australian accent so you have to excuse me :P Yes The 128/128D did come out around the same time as the A1K which in my opnion was bad timing for both computers cross competing in the Market at the same time getting divided attention while the C64/c64C was still moving ahead and doing mass sales (and sales discounts over a wide variety of stores inlcuding big names as Big W, Target and Even ALDI) , The 128 Was actually a C64 hybrid in a beefed up case/drive considering the machine was used as a c64 99% of the time so it was clever to just get the C64 at half the price. Atari Kept making the same machines over and over at an inflated price fooling the consumer it was a far more advanced machine then the previous models, only it was the same :) The deceiving machine. Spectrum tried to compete in the overall market (cost reduced units and minimization, and i laughed at the sinclair commercial when it went through the conveyor saying the "Professional Keyboard") but it sadly ran out of ideas which most of these systems had become obsolete contracted designs (Sinclair research paid developers) but then again you can only do... or stretch so far with a zilog Z80 chip, it was pretty much an industrial standard chip originaly used for factory robotics not really up to scratch with home Computing and it was made in the early 70's go figure, cant update no matter how many decades you use the same chip. Not entirely a Sinlclair research engineering product but almost all the computers developed were reverse engineered according to its manifestation. The only intervention with Sinclair computers was harware adaptation for sound and graphics which struggled with compatability issues, but somehow managed to draw a crowd in the 8-bit market, crazy market price drops perhaps ??? Clever Clive Sinclairs Story is Pretty much the mirror version of Dickie Dick Smith Electronics when he first started out in radio electronics, opened up a few stores, developed a few cheap unsuccesful home computers (Rip off versions of Vtech) scattered ideas here and their then sold it off and liquadated his entire chain of stores to Woolworths Limited, because cheap imports from china (was his obvious excuse from a Guy like geo explorer Dickie to come up with) flooded the market with commercial electronics and his components stores died along with him....☠ I think it boils down to bad Business management and limited imagination. The term I usually use is "Divided Focul Attention"..kind of like a kid in a candy store coming across everything as one big Candy. 🍬
I'd say Alan Sugar was more like Dick Smith from your description as you have to remember that Sir Clive actually came up with several very important inventions including the portable TV, digital watch and digital calculator,
CRT TV Was a Japanese invention, Clive seemingly made it portable been 2 inches and all, The Digital Watch was from an Australian Engineer and the Digital Calculator Was from an American Engineer. Ah Elon Musk never invented a shroud either, he had money to hire and buy peoples interlectuals properties. (thought I add that one usually some people bring the inheritance guy up) I know the whole history of electronics sounds bit complex and silly, but the truth to claim has to start somewhere. Yeah dont know much about Sugar, seemed like an interest/invest businessman like porr old Dickie (The Peanut Butter man:))
Alan Sugar was the del boy of the industry at this time all the talk but no real idea of what to do up against giants like Sega & Nintendo. He knew how to bully bargain people down to acquire the company, product & and rights, but then had no real structure within his company to evolve on ideas already created or superseded by other companies.Thats why Amstrad failed badly.
Great video. Many of these were not necessarily bad products, and were decent upgrades, but not big enough, and often too late, too little. For the future videos, could you make sure to cite sources in the video, like sources of photos, paper advertisement, etc? There is 90+ images and photos, without source mentioned. As of me, my computer stories were around Commodore 64, then PC, so not much to say. I belive ZX Spectrum was available also, but a lot of other stuff, like Ataris, MSX, were not available in the country I lieved. Friend had Amiga 1200, around 1997, but everybody else was rocking PC by that time. I had my own first PC computer around 2000, so most of these weirdness of 80s and 90s passed without me.
If I use images or videos that aren't public domain I always cite the sources and put link backs in the description. With images that are in the public domain its almost impossible to determine their origins.
The C128 was not a failure in any sense of the word. It sold over 2.5 million computers. Not even close to a failure. In another sense, you can say the new standard never caught on and that these 2.5 million 128s were operated in 64 mode and it was therefore a flop. But tell that to Commodore who sold 2.5 million computers.
I bought a CBM 128 but most of the time it stayed in 64 mode. CPM was in there but it was so slow. The 64 mode did not use the hi speed drive so unless you had speed up software it was not worth it. I never saw any 128 games that where machine code most of the ones I saw used the enhanced basic and sprite control. It was still my favourite 8 bit computer. I ended buy an Amiga 500 which was so much better.
It's true - the 128 speccy wasn't much of an upgrade. I skipped it and went to the +2 which was a lot better...though the sound was screwed in mine and my mates models - it's a disgrace really.
Whoa, whoa, whoa how did the MSX TurboR fail? That has to be the coolest looking micro I have ever seen. Did the final product actually look like this 9:32?! We didn't get the MSX Standard in the US which I always found strange. Hell, I didn't even know MSX existed at all. I was so enthralled by my Sega Genesis in 1989 that I truly believed it was untouchable in the home at that time (it was in the US). But I digress... I just went to an MSX site to see if I could get a look at its spec page and I ask again...how did this machine fail? It should have no issues throwing down with the Genesis, TG-16, and Snes. The only thing I see that it is missing would be like a Mode 7 kind of thing. However, when you have access to 256KB of RAM solely for the VDP you should have no problems running software scaling all over the screen. If Panasonic had marketed this micro as a true gaming machine that did light computing at a cost that was in-line with with the PC Engine+CD ROM ROM they may have done well. Addendum- It is possible that I missed something. I am not fluent in Japanese...so I could have made a mistake here. I also read that it was capable of displaying 4096 colors and could reach unheard of resolutions in 1990. For reference- I love the Zilog Z-80 processor. It was such a huge workhorse for not only Sega but anyone that developed arcade games from 1981-1996+. The Master System, Sega Genesis, Neo Geo AES/MVS/CDZ, CPS-1, CPS-1.5, CPS-2, every Sega Super Scaler made, Konami created so many boards with that processor...it's endless. The only processor that was used more was the Motorola 68K and I love it just as much.
The C128 was a failure in my eyes at the time I skipped it and many with me. Also The 1001 Crew I had contact with, I got my software from them I had to buy a 1541 disk drive, they didn't do tapes. He always said I would still be here next week 😂 So I had to deliver more newspapers, which succeeded to get the money together. The Commodore 128 added little in the way of software, it also had limitations that should not be there, it was also an expensive system and since new software kept coming out on the Commodore 64 there was no reason to! Remember the 1001 crew had an Amiga 500 first. Which I would later also buy and which I would exchange for an Amiga 2000 a few years later because I wanted to put accelerator cards and in A500 you miss the Zorro slots. Was expensive joke but that's what you have with computer hobby. Also had 3 Disk Drives with it 5.25" 20 mb each seems small now but was big for that time. Looked like a fighter jet with startup what a noise is different now with ssd's haha. Computer C128 was also cumbersome device was too big for me. Another thing The 1001 Crew were also the first to move Sprites in the boarder on the C64 my buddy was the first who could do it in all sides and angles something was 1001 Crew did not succeed in the time. Well after our help we then worked together occasionally through me she got to know me buddy F.B he was a Genius. TMC we were called in those days. 1984 1985
The Atari 1200XL was the beginning of mass customer confusion over what model of Atari computer to get and what compatibility issues there may be. Things might have gone differently if Atari had simply went with a cost reduced Atari 800 to begin with. The original Atari 400 and 800 designs were built like main battle tanks. All that cast steel! Maybe if Atari had simply come out with a cost reduced "Atari 800B", then things would have gone better. Simply slapping a "B" on the end of the name would manage expectations - this isn't supposed to be an upgrade, it's a fully compatible model. This would have come out before the C64, so it would look pretty good compared to the competition.
@@TheLairdsLair How about this idea - an Atari 6400? It's 5200+800+400, with 6 joystick ports (four DB9 and two 5200). It's compatible with 800, 400, and 5200, and it's got a total of 64K of RAM (equal to 800 plus 400 RAM). I dunno, just a silly thought based on the coincidence that 5200+800+400 = 6400.
There's that other failure to remember ... the Oric Atmos. Which is what the original Oric 1 should have been from the start, but oops, wasn't. The Atmos arrived just in time to be swept aside first by the Atari ST, then the Amiga. And of course, who can forget the Sinclair QL? Which despite having a 68000 family CPU, was far too close in appearance to the Spectrum to be taken seriously by the intended user base. Which wanted a proper business computer with at the very least, decent capacity floppy drives, and ideally the ability to bolt on a hard disc. Even early 286 PCs were shipping with hard drives at the time, which made them far more attractive, and when the first 386 PCs appeared, it was game over for any serious computer that wasn't 32 bit. The QL was a joke in comparison. Seriously, microdrives? To put things in perspective, those with money to burn could splash out on a Sage IV shortly after the QL came out. Yes, expensive as hell, but you got a 68000, 512K of RAM, and a robust multitasking operating system along with a 20 MB hard drive. The RAM could be taken to 768K from the factory, and aftermarket upgrades gave you 2 MB of RAM. Ran like a bat out of hell by late 80s standards, and you got serious development tools thrown in as standard - a full featured 68000 macro assembler, and a choice of ANSI C and Pascal compilers. You could even get COBOL and FORTRAN on a Sage if you wanted, at surprisingly little extra cost, though if you could afford to treat yourself to a Sage, you were probably also thinking about parking a Porsche Carrera in your driveway :) Once 386 boxes appeared, it was basically Game Over for a huge swathe of computers (including, sadly, the speed demon that was the Archimedes, though ARM chips would conquer the mobile market later). From that point on, PCs were well and truly taking over the world, and even the games industry switched once that happened. Oh, and retro fans interested in other obscure computers can look up the Enterprise 128, which was again a flop. That one tried in its own quirky way to be a sort of Z80 Amiga, with the CPU assisted by a brace of custom chips. That one's now an expensive collector's item.
The Oric Atmos looked really nice in the adverts and the keyboard also looked like a massive improvement. I think I read that inside it was identical to the Oric 1.
The 1200XL isn't that incompatible. It was just too expensive. (which also provided a big boost to 800 sales.) (I have one with multi-OS switcher and 256K.)
Yes, the Spectrum 128 wasn’t a failure; it just had a short life as it was a casualty of Sinclair’s business misjudgement. But I got mine in early 1986 and loved it. It nevertheless became the foundation of Amstrad’s entire range (the +2 was the same machine in a new, ugly case), not to mention all the more modern clones. The biggest disappointment with hindsight was the lack of any graphical enhancements, but frankly I didn’t care about that in 1986. The Spectrum’s quirky graphics are much maligned but contribute strongly to the machine’s character and actually have a lot to commend them. My greatest disappointment with the 128 in 1986 was that I wanted the numeric keypad add-on for it, like the Spanish version had, but Sinclair failed to release it in the UK market.
Once the Atari STFM was announced the C128 looked poor value. For £1000 you could get an ST with floppy, 512K and monitor. To upgrade a 128 to that spec would have cost you more. Sure you could play more games on a 128 but who pays £1000 in 1987 to play games?
Got to say while a actual shit time for the upgrade, the spec-wise of the CPC-Plus range would actually fit the dream 8bit computer of mine. Like no way was that the right thing to do at the time. Given the market they were facing, further budget reduced model of it would've made more sense to take over for the Speccy as the low end, where a 16Bit Computer would've been required if they wanted to stay relevant. I sometimes wonder what a "Amstrad" 16bit machine would've looked like given the opinions of the man himself. I think that its likely that it would be Motorola based, given much like the Zilog processor in the Speccy and CPC it was already being produced in large quantities so it would be the most likely option to get cheap and to find programmers for the cheap too. But Sugar was a sly one, its possible that he would've done something akin to the Floppy drive deal he'd gotten in the past. I would probably need to research things a lot in order to find out the result and given what Sugar actually went for at the time, it's obvious that a 16bit machine of his own was never in the cards. But it is a interesting "what if" to try and figure out.
Yeah I have often thought about that too, he decided to go down the PC route rather than design his own, but I think we probably would have ended up with something very similar to the ST, but probably even more bare bones in some regards like no MIDI or high-res screen mode.
Supposedly there is a compact Atari 400 like machine in the works with a bunch of built in games. If it has Star Raiders (I not II) I'll buy it. Maybe not otherwise.
There is, but I'm not impressed by it to be honest. The 400 was the wrong design to use, it only has 25 games on it and it's quite expensive for what it is.
the problem with frailer videos is ,,,,,,, we have .......... HINDSIGHT .......... the people at the time thought what they thought,, then maybe 6 months to make cases & electronics ,, software etc and you cant see what the other people are thinking & upgrading there product etc
Speccy 128 was the flop for me. Saved up for many newspaper round months to get one at release time, and all it had was better sound, what a let down! we all really wanted better graphics!. Sold it not long after for an Amiga, and wow was that the mutts nuts of a machine! and stayed with Amigas for almost 10 years! (before finally going down the pc road and jumping on the www).
I had a classic rubber keyed spectrum which died after 11 and half weeks and got a Spectrum+ as a replacement. When the 128k toastrack came out I got one. There were a few games which took advantage of the extra capabilties but I got as much pleasure out of learning to use the back switching RAM and the sound chip through programming. I got an Amiga not long after and sold the 128k to a friend. I met my real life Amiga :) (who later became my wife) and she gave me the rubber-keyed 48k she had in the back of her wardrobe so I came full circle with the spectrum, and I've still got the rubber-keyed spectrum and wife 30+ years later.
The 48k+ is what my dad had and I played as a kid, loved it. Still got two and literally hundreds of tapes.
A few minor corrections regarding the Spectrum 128 part:
Sir Clive didn't use Sinclair Research funds for Sinclair Vehicles, he actually sold a stake in Sinclair Research to fund his vehicle venture. Sinclair Research was hurting financially, but for two unrelated reasons: The commercial failure of the Sinclair QL, and, according to Tony Tebby at least (Tebby wrote the QL operating system, and met with Nigel Searle, Sir Clive's underling, after the sale to Amstrad, after trying to work out why he wasn't getting the royalties he expected), rampant theft and corruption going on within the company.
The Spectrum 128 was launched in Spain first but not because it was developed there (it might have been, but I suspect most of the development work happened in the UK, I can't see any company other than Sinclair thinking the Spectrum+ keyboard was worth keeping.) Instead, according to the sources I've read, there were huge numbers of unsold Spectrum+s in Sinclair's inventory, and they wanted to clear those out before selling the 128. The Spectrum+ was never as popular as the Spectrum 48k, it was 50GBP more expensive at one point, and the keyboard just didn't matter - it wasn't good enough for those who wanted a good keyboard, and game players didn't care what type of keyboard they had, so between that, ramped up competition from Commodore (who was trying to kill TI) and to a lesser extent Acorn, and the fact it was a two year old computer that nobody wanted to buy new and nobody had any reason to upgrade to, it was a relative flop and Sinclair Research severely overestimated demand.
I could quibble about saying Amstrad discontinued the 128, it's more they enhanced the system, the +2 and +3 were, after all, continuations of the same base Spectrum 128 system, with only the +3 having a significantly changed motherboard.
I wonder, if the QL had been the SuperSpectrum some in Sinclair Research were pushing for, if it would have been on this list.
I upgraded from a C64 to a C128 in ‘85 and never regretted the decision. In fact, it was my favorite 8-bit machine of all time. Later, I bought an Amiga 500, which became my primary machine but I kept my C128 around to play all the C64 games I still loved. In fact, I adapted some public domain programs that booted and loaded games in C128 mode and then switched to C64 mode automatically to run the games.
And instead of the C128 as an example of a failure I would have listed the Plus4/C16 instead for the following reasons:
1) They were completely incompatible with the C64 and were inferior to it in terms of graphics (no sprites!). I also think it took resources from developing a compatible machine like the C128. It certainly delayed the C128 by at least a year.
2) As you said, it sold over 2.5 million units.
3) And as several posters have said, it was an excellent machine for running BBSs.
My only quibble with the C128 is that CBM should have realized that CP/M was nearly dead in 1985. I ran some CP/M programs on my C128 just to prove they work but never did it again. If they hadn’t included CP/M compatibility they could have sold the C128 for a much lower price.
The Plus/4 wasn't an upgrade on an existing system though, it was part of the standalone 116 range, that's why I didn't include it.
@@TheLairdsLair Got it-thanks! Here it is 40 years later and I’m still mad about the 116 line. 😂
LOL! It was certainly a terrible decision, I need to do a bigger video on the topic really.
The 128 is my personal favorite computer of the era, burst mode, double side, and 80 column, along with goes made it just as good as a Macintosh for writing. Love it
I wish I still had it today. but in cpm mode it was truly obscene, z80 only ran at half clock, it was unusable... and maybe with the vdc with more ram
Its crazy that the 128k released without including an update to remove colour clash. It could have been a genuine better version of the Speccy and still back compatible with some forward thinking rather than thinking it was just the RAM that would be sufficient. This shows a lack of understanding sadly which is understandable given the young age of the computer.
Amstrad's plan to release tape software on £20 cartridges was crazy and again shows a lack of understanding of the gaming market.
The Amstrad was an incredible machine that never saw it's potential realised - modern remakes of games using the power of the Amstrad rather than Spectrum ports show what it can do and it is such a great system.
I bought myself a Commodore 64 in 1984, the first year I started earning a pay cheque. I would have loved to have owned an Amiga, but I could just not afford it.
Both the C128 and the toast rack Spectrum 128K are my favourite 8-bit home computer designs in terms of looks and functionality. Unfortunately, both were too little too late in the market to make any impact and ended up running older software in backwards compatibility mode, never really showing off their true potential
I had the Spectrum 128K. I used to have to keep a supply of 2p coins handy: I’d stack them in the heat sink’s slots, then swap them out for a different set every ten minutes or so, to take some heat away from the unit.
Subsequently, I’ve read that it’s only necessary because Sinclair used a cheap (quel surprise!) voltage regulator that put out ridiculous quantities of heat. It seems that hobbyists who still want to compute or game on e-waste like the Spectrum in the modern era change out that component and have a much more comfortable computing experience.
The Speccy 128 was an essential upgrade for one reason only - the Glider Rider soundtrack!
It is pretty amazing!
Definitely!
Nice, but Xenon 1 on the Spectrum 128k is still the best music ever.
I went from a Commodore 64 to a Commodore 128, and never regretted it. I loved it so much, I bought one on EBay last year, and use it every weekend!
I went from the 64 to IBM clones. Really wish we went with a 128.
8 bit computers with gaming features died in the late 80s-early 90s with the first 16 bit console arrival and IBM PCs being shipped with VGA and soundcards.
Actually if IBM released a combo video+sound cards every 2-3 years increasing capabilities for the PC during the 80s, it would accelerate this, but they did not care about this market share. Video and sound capabilities on PCs developed and were adopted slowly during the 80s.
During the 80s, IBM PC (with CGA + beeper) and some home consoles were pretty much outperformed by 8 bit computers that just offered more builtin audio and sound features.
A c64 being sold for 299 usd was a no-brainer deal in mid-80s.
1990s onwards it as just the PC final step for domestic computing dominance, helped a lot by Microsoft that forced "Multimedia PC" specs, DirectX in mid-90s etc. By 1998 no other gaming+computing platform survived.
I had an MSX TurboR in the UK, there was virtually no 'English' written software that was TurboR exclusive. I sold it for a Sony MSX2+.
The C-128 lasted me all through grade school, middle school, and high school. Damn that computer was great. It was a great BBSing machine and could compete even with 386's online, but once the graphical internet started to take hold, the C-128 just couldn't keep up. Even just the raw RS-232 connection of the C-128 was just too slow for text internet. Ignoring the crappy Z80, the Commodore 128 was just built for a different, more civilized time.
My best home micro upgrade was from the 48K Speccy to the ZX Spectrum +3. Paired with a Romantic Robot Multiface 3 and a load of blank 3" disks, you were all set. Some 128K games were also worth the upgrade but not many :-) Keep up the awesome work!
I have a +3, it's my Speccy of choice these days.
Genuine disks could have been the making of the Spectrum, but instead we got the dreadful Microdrive - which also made the QL irrelevant for business use. Funny to think that Amstrad finally delivered... although I'd gone 16-bit by then.
Thanks for posting the Greek magazine advert of the Amstrad computers, at 3:28 ! Much appreciated !! (the slogan reads: "if you're looking for THE BEST"...)
The UK launch of the Spectrum 128 was delayed as to get some cash SInclair had sold their stock of QLs to Dixons and one of the conditions was that SInclair would not launch a new machine in the UK until after Christmas.
I think the PC's influence on both the CPC and C128 is massively understated. In 1985 PC compatibles had a 50% share of all new computer sales and that increased to 90% by 1990. A basic 8mhz turbo XT clone with 2 disk drives and 640k ram in 1987 sold for less than a C128 with one disk drive. By 1989 286s were cheaper than amigas and STs. No single manufacturer could compete with how much PC prices were dropping and how much more powerful they were getting every couple of years while maintaining full backwards compatibility. Apple only survived by focusing on niche markets and the only way commodore, amstrad or Atari would have survived in the computer market, would have been to establish their own niche.
My first ever go on a computer was a ZX Spectrum 48+, with Interface2 adaptor, micro-drive and a dial up modem.
(my dad worked for BT and it was his, he used it for the very basic bulletin boards for work. Mid 80's)
My own first computer was a ZX Spectrum+3 128Kb, which I still own, I got it new in on my 12th birthday in September 1987, the same year of release.
Still have the box/manuals etc, although can no longer use it as the power supply is broken.
It's a good machine and always served it's purpose to entertain me.
I'm sure you can replace the PSU internals with modern parts or pay someone to do it for relatively little. Of course you can just emulate all your favourites today but people insist on the authentic feel of loading the game from tape and playing on the original hardawre.
I did go down the 128k spectrum upgrade path and although it was a little disappointing in that there were no improvements to the graphics I think it was still a nice machine and my favourite of all the models. I do wonder how things would have turned out had Sinclair not wasted time and money on the electric vehicles and even the QL and focused on a better Spectrum successor such as the Super Spectrum code named Loki.
Clive Sinclair would have been much more important than Steve Jobs and computing would have been more oriented to programming than consumerism. A shame not only for him but for the world.
Well, it could be said that the MGT SAM Coupé was a Super Spectrum of sorts...
C128 was awesome. basic 7 included sprites and many awesome commands (replacing C64 pokes). my favourite was the speccy though. as a kid, i used sketch possible 16bit sinclair spectrums on paper. mimicking the ST/Amiga keyboards :) i wanted a 512k speccy so much, black case, 3,5" on the side.
The Commodore 128 was my very first computer. Unfortunately, I was only 5 years old and I only cared about the games (mostly cart based games). My family wanted to introduce me to technology as early as possible. As much as I am happy the way things turned out I think they made a huge misstep...
The next year (1986) was a very different time than it was in 1985. In 1985 console gaming was considered stupid and a fad past its prime. People really didn't want anything to do with it and stores refused to carry them. However, by the time 1986 hit the Nes was becoming a juggernaut and parents absolutely bought into this..."it's not a video game console, it is a video entertainment system." My parents were among those that bought into the hype of a toy robot (Nes-Rob)and 3D glasses (SMS- 3D glasses).
That Christmas of 1986 my mom got me am NES and my father not to be outdone picked up a Sega Master System (divorced parents). They each felt the new consoles would compliment the C-128 but that is not what happened. I, a stupid 6 year old, dropped the C-128 for the "much better" 8-bit consoles. This inadvertently turned me away from computers for a number of years (not good). I actually thought anyone using a computer to play games on was...kind of stupid (that was wrong). I didn't come out of this stupor until...1993 and you probably know why.
I remember it like it was yesterday. I was in my dad's living room playing Street Fighter II (don't remember which version or system) when he came in the front door with what I thought was a cumbersome mess. He tried to get me interested in it...but Street Fighter was on and I was on a hot streak. Roughly an hour later I started hearing all kinds of crazy noises coming out of the computer room. "Why is my dad's work computer sounding like gunshots and death?!" I had to investigate and what I saw changed my life forever...Doom. In that instant I was both humbled and enthralled by what I saw. How was it in 3D?! How did it have graphics so far advanced to purpose built games machines it's as if they weren't even in the same league (they weren't)?! How is it producing sound quality that was beyond anything I had ever heard before?! From that point forward I did everything I could to get my very own copy of Doom. My dad wound up getting a 486DX2@66MHz parts computer from his work and the rest is history. Well...aside from me showing my friends that our Sega Genesis/Sega CD, Snes, TG-16's, ect...were no match for a PC. I even stopped drueling over Neo Geo AES spreads in gaming mags. Now, of course I will never stop console gaming but nothing will ever replace PC gaming either. They do compliment each other well even today...
My top computer games of 199X- ;)
Doom/Doom 2
Xcom
Wing Commander
X-Wing
Tie-Fighter
Dark Forces
Quake (straining to run)
Wolfenstein 3D
Desent
I think the SPectrum eventually did come with 512k or even multiple megabytes, though I'm not sure if these models were Spectrums in anything but name. There is not a lot of information in English about the Russian/Eastern block Spectrums.
From what I understand, the Spectrum got a second life in former Eastern block countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I own an Atari 1200XL - after it was discontinued, my parents bought me one when a big box store was selling them for $99. It's a flawed system to be sure, as there are isolated compatibility issues with old 400/800 software and the positioning of the cartridge slot renders it difficult to use some third-party cartridges, but at the same time the system had some features that were ahead of its time. It had on-board diagnostics, for example. It still works 40 years later, too!
The 1200XL looked fantastic and had the best keyboard of any 8-bit machine. Pity about the compatibility issues, which killed it in the marketplace. When the 1200XL came out, the Atari 800 rapidly sold out as users rushed to buy the older machine before it became unavailable.
The 128 also was the first home computer that could technically run two monitors
Really? How come?
@@TheLairdsLair Because you can run C128 mode and C64 mode at the same time, connecting one monitor to Composite and the other to RGB, you can run two monitors. Technically. If it's practical I don't know tho.
The Spectrum 128k was late. Amstrad CPC was out simultaneously and it was kind of a continuation of the Spectrum but better.
My journey: C64 --> Amiga 500 --> Amiga 2000 --> 486DX PC. The C128 had no interrest at all, not doing any better than the C64 (same chips, same speed)
I moved from my C64 to a C128D mainly because my C1541floppy drive was starting to become harder to align. Really liked it and in combination with C1581 drive & Geos was a viable system into the 90's since I could swap disks with my office PC. Having said that I really wouldn't say it was a failure by any measure, maybe just an unaviodable deadend.
Going from a Vic20 to C128 was a massive jump.
The 80 column was great for terminals to visit BBSs.
Graphics mode native to basic was as entertaining as any game.
But had I gone from C64 to C128… I don’t think I’d been as impressed.
Commodore's handling of the 80 column mode was terrible. It is such a bad design. What they should have done was come up with a VIC III. Though I suppose it is possible it would have broken at least some 64 games which expected a real ViC II (VIC II is the graphics chip in a 64)
Thanks for the inclusion of the picture of our event. 🙂Hope to have your visit one of this days.
It's on my bucket list!
@@TheLairdsLairlet us know when you come to ensure I can meet you there.
Will do!
14:09 After 42 long years, the C64 now has a proper version of Burgerime. Brought to you by none other than Arlasoft. It was released like a month ago. This guy is on a roll!
Yeah, I've seen that, it's brilliant.
You had a lot more choice in the 8 bit micro pc arena in the UK and Europe.
In the U.S. we mainly had the Apple IIs, Atari 400/800/XL/XE, Commodore Vic-20/C64/C128. Of course you also had IBM PCs but people really didn't buy those for gaming or for your regular home use.
The TRS-80 was also around but that was really lacking compared to the others.
It was a tricky time for 8-bit owners as it was obvious an era was coming to an end. It felt like industry and customers alike were all looking at each other to see what would happen next. Had someone produced a faster 8-bit machine with no colour clash and a bump in resolution I'd have probably bought one if only to tinker with it. However I soon realised that put me in a minority and the chances of such a machine emerging any time soon were slim. I found the following years a bit frustrating and the occasional highlights such as The Chaos Engine and Wolfenstein 3D felt few and far between. I think the simple fact is that for a few brief years we were spoiled. The hardware at least toward the end was cheap and there were some standout games. When it ended it was hard to take.
I remember ordering the Plus keyboard from Sinclair so I could turn my base 48k into a plus. There was so much room inside I soldered a cursor joystick port in too. They must have had 1000's of spare keyboards.
The main problem with the CPC Plus range is that it was a few years too late - 1990 wasn't time for a new 8-bit home micro, being squeezed by the consoles and the M60k machines.
Spot on!
Great machines if it was out in 1988
Amstrad basically remade the SAM Coupe all over again
Not mentioned but only upgrades I made were from my Atari STFM to a s/h Atari TT, then later buying the Falcon when that launched.
I'll do a another video for 16-bit at some point.
Great video! Having grown up with a Portuguese Speccy clone, when I saw the title of the video, my mind gravitated towards the SAM Coupe. It was kinda being marketed as the "Super Spectrum" back then, as it was supposed to be quite Speccy-compatible, but I guess it was launched too late, at the end of the 8-bit era. My next computer after that was a 8086 machine (in which i ended up running one of the early MSDOS Speccy emulators :) )
Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
I did think about the SAM Coupe, but it wasn't an actual Sinclair machine so that ruled it out.
I sort of wanted the C128. The Spectrum 128 / +2 / +3 were already too late in the game. By that time people were looking to STs and Amigas. All the MSX lines had limited representation here, but they were selling well in Japan. I actually liked MSX1 and have two systems now. The CPC+ was also a very late joke. The 464+ even more so, because of the tape deck, at that point everyone was using floppies.
Great content. I always love to see stuff about those peripherals we'd see on magazines back in the day.
The MSX 3 is finally coming to market some 30+ years later! Nischii has plans to release it this year or a least early next year.
Yeah I heard about that, very cool indeed!
I had the Spectrum 128, but sold it quick for an Atari ST. The Spectrum was a reasonable upgrade on the Spetrum 48K, but to little, to late. At least, I made use of the huge memory for writing a GEM lookalike GUI for the Spectrum 128K. Not very functional, but it was easy to store screenshots on the RAM disc, which I used for restoring the background when closing a window.
I learned a scosh about the failure of the Sinclair C5 electric vehicle from an episode of Wallace and Grommit's World of Invention. Didn't know how much of an impact it had on his computer sales, though.
Clive Sinclair always made money with one invention and blew it all on the next: it was his way... don’t blame the C5, because it was always the pattern.
Dad got our rubber keyed 48K Speccy in 1983, a huge upgrade from the ZX81 we got in 82.
In 1990 I got a second hand Grey 128 +2, by that point there was quite a lot of 128K games. I found it hard to program in 128K basic though, I was so used to single press keywords. LOL
I found it so much easier, I hated the keywords!
@@TheLairdsLair Whenever I write a basic program on my rubber key Harlequin 128 I still do it in 48K mode. I've been using it so long It's basically muscle memory where they all are. Ha ha.
The commodore section:
A lot of ridiculous high end machines were introduced during the 64. They failed miserably. The 64 chipset needed 80 column attributed text mode at least, even programmable characters, maybe even 16 sprites. They could have based a business machine on this, with higher clock offer increased resolution and colour depth, which would come to latter lower end 64 replacement, as the business machines went onto high spec. But instead, people were offered machines that made the IBM look like an alternative and hosed their PET range. You left out these range of failures, except one picture alongside the 64. One of these ranges even had the 64's 40 column chipset. They could have made it the 80 column Commodore 256 machine with better graphics and PET (popular 40 column versions) compatibility and scrap the rest. Unfortunately, they were known for mixing it up with incompatible models, rather than having strategy.
The 128 had serious problems using the new graphics modes, port addressing. A serious failure. Some tricks have made some graphics modes possible, but speed I think still is an issue. The CPM was on the way down then anyway. Really a 1981-1983 move. You had to switch modes to play or use 64 graphics. Why didn't they make it available in 64 mode, and at least overlay the two graphics chips like graphic planes. Why didn't they just enhance the 64 graphic and sound chip, use a faster 65xx chip, scrap the cpm z80, 6845 semi compatible chip, and introduce it as a deluxe 64 upgrade?
The Amiga was pipe dream too expensive. The 128 was expensive, but doing an cheap enhanced 64 with 80 column text and enhanced graphics, instead, wasn't going to compete much with the machine people couldn't afford.
Next, the plus 4 range, was something Jack wanted. When Jack left, it went undernourished. It would have been good to upgrade the 64 chipset into a 80 column mode and use this as an upgrade. Even a simpler 40 column no sprite circuit for the 16 that looked like a subset of the 64 to developers, if they really wanted to cut do.wn But, it didn't have the included software at the level intended, there were speed problems accessing the limited graphics. It was just too little in competition. We wondered what they were thinking when it came out, but seeing it years later with GEOS in QVGA, sort of gives the idea of how good it could have been in 640x200+.
The Atari 7800, was simply undernourished against the 64 and SNES in Japan, at its intended release, and much worse years latter when it was released, where they should have had more memory, better graphics, 16 bit 6502. It needed to match the competition coming in the next couple of years in 1983. As you can see, one glaring issue with the games is a large lack of background playfields. Simple black back grounds did not look as good. If they had released as intended, but with more memory and a good background plane, they would have been very competitive for years, with people buying instead of Amiga. The Atari computers made the mistake of charging more for 1970's graphics. The 7800 chipset was next generation, blitter, and capable of a lot more than the 7800 supported. The design in the home computers or the ST, would have been an improvement.
I forgot. I think the creators of the 7800 hardware may have been planning something based on its technology before or after the Atari deal. I saw something at one time, but can't remember if it was that company.
Did upgrade from Atari 520 STFM to a 1040 STE. The STE line. It was not many games that did support the STE blitter and new sound system. So the next thing was a spanking new PC 386 DX-25 with Adlib card.
There was a big difference between the Spanish and the British Spectrum 128. The Spanish hasn't the menú system but has a wordproccessor in ROM that used the keypad. The British one hasn't that thing. And this is why they missed the Christmas opportunity.
Nevertheless, the +2 (grey) is almost the same 128 board with another case. The real improvement was the +2a/+3.
Back when "4K" meant a whole different thing :)
Wow I was a real gamer at the time, but I don't even remember ever seeing that Amstrad games console
I felt that the Plus/4 was more of a failure. Hence, Commodore brought out the C128 the following year. Many friends in high school were upgrading to the C128 to run their BBSs entirely with 1571 and 1581 drives.
It was, but it wasn't an upgrade ;-)
Agree 💯. The release of the C16/Plus 4 was one of the worst decisions ever made by Commodore. And yes, C128 BBS software was much better than what you could get on the C64.
The revisions to the OS of the 1200XL was to add new features. Compatibility problems were due to software writers not following compatibility guidelines - instead of using the proper vectors, they made software / games which jumped directly to OS routines.
However, the XL & XE lines have a nice trick - they can switch out the ROM OS and load another in the underlying RAM. And hence the Atari Translator, FixXL, and others were born.
To be fair, some changes to the 1200XL OS were stupid, even changing addresses that were included in the BASIC manual. They fixed the worst of the compatibility issues in the OS released with the 800XL. There was also a new revision for the 1200XL, but they never released it, as they computer was discontinued before they ran out of the first run of ROMs. There are very few programs that have trouble on the 800XL, with there being far more that fail on the original 800, mostly because they use the extended RAM in the XL/XE line.
The 1200XL is widely regarded today as the Atari 8-bit with the best keyboard, though almost all of them require repair work due to a mylar delamination problem as they age (I may have the technical wording wrong there). Upgrading to the unreleased ROM or installing one of the upgrades that let you select from a number of different OS ROMs eliminates the compatibility issues. There are problems with a few modern homebrew cartridges that are just a little too big for the slot, but I don't think that was a problem with any commercial cartridges. It lacked the expansion bus of later Ataris, but it was hardly ever used (which is a real shame).
Also, the 1200XL could also run the translator to use a different ROM, but by the time it was released, the marketing damage was done. Technically, the 800XL was just as good or better than the 1200XL in almost every way.
I love the design and aesthetic of the C128 but it’s obvious why it failed and Commodore should have been more forward thinking, especially after acquiring the massively superior Amiga.
Building a ‘slightly better C64’ with CPM compatibility was never going to inspire developers to target if specifically when they could just target the C64. It was the PS4 Pro of its day; just not big enough an upgrade.
I upgraded to a spectrum +3.
It was good apart from incompatibility issues with some 48k tape games.
None of this was an issue with the the OG 128k.
My friend had a C128, and we played Jeopardy! on it, putting the most ridiculous answers to see what it would recognize. Surprisingly, it took nearly every answer (absurd, vulgar, or otherwise) and would say "Correct response!"😂
Fantastic content young lad. Bloody brilliant.
There stories that the C128 saved C= because the Amiga1000 was much to expensive and they needed some time to get the cheaper Amiga500 into production
Sadly the C128 was much more expensive than the C64 therefore the C64 survived its successor
The Spectrum should have been that from day 1, or at least 1983. Atari should have never released the 1200 or 600XL and just done the 800XL, but that should have been updated to include a built in 80 column mode. Similar with the Commodore 128, that should have been canned and just had a 128K C64 with once again 80 column display. Many families wanted 80 column for simple word processing or business, and for that they could have just used a cheap CRT controller like the CPC and BBC.
How can people say the Commodore 128 is a failure, when the entire range of Amiga "computers" from A500 to A4000 sold aprox. 4 million units... The same amount as the C-128 did, and that was only a single model. Yes, I know of the C-128d and CR, but besides adding a 1571 drive to it, the computer was the same.
-For me, the Commodore 128 was a success.
4 million? Never seen a figure as low as that. I've seen both 7 and 9 million quoted by different people but never seen any proof to back anything up.
It's quite easy. Search for Commodore uk who stood for all sales of Commodore computers in the world. Some interesting numbers: Best selling Amiga model: The A500 series with aprox 2.6 million units sold. Amiga 1200: Aprox 120.000 units sold. A3000 & A4000 "Only a handful of units sold"
Ofcause have you never seen the correct numbers of Amiga machines sold, as the Amiga community are usually overestimating it, what it can do, what sales it had, where the computer "ruled" . The Amiga were especially popular in places like Scandinavia and Northern Germany, but it didn't sell well in countries like France, Germany (In general), UK, USA etc.
UPDATE: Errrhm... I mistakenly wrote 120.000 million A1200 sold. -If that was the case, we would be using Commodore machines today . Sorry
I don't believe the C128 qualifies as a failed upgrade. It was almost 100% backward compatible (do some research on titles for those inop). Included all the same elements people enjoyed about the C64. Was included in many school computer labs replacing previous C64, Tandy, and Apple II computers. It used all the same peripherals which is a must too.
The are two very cheap recent upgrades to the BBC micro that give outstanding improvements for less than £30. The first is a board which allows you to plug a raspberry Pi zero into the tube coprocessor interface of a BBC micro. This raspberry Pi zero can be programmed to emulate at very high speed the 6502, Z80, x86 or ARM coprocessors of the original BBC micro.
The second upgrade is much faster but a little less compatible. The Archimedes was the first ARM 1 based computer and allowed people to run a 32 bit BBC basic under RiscOS on a much faster home computer. Now RiscOS has been ported to the Raspberry Pi which allows you to run programs up to 50 times faster than on the Archimedes. The BBC Basic Manual for RiscOS is based upon the old Archimedes BBC Basic manual with updates in 2017. BBC Basic for RiscOS includes an ARM assembler.
As someone who only recently got to experience 128k Sinclair machines for the first time (we never got them in Canada), I understand how the press' reaction was so unenthusiastic. 128k BASIC is pretty much just 48k BASIC where you type the commands one letter at a time, the colour clash is still there, there's still the same number of colours, there's still no way to save and load data from an onboard microdrive or floppy, and the keyboard is absolutely unbearable. The only really worthwhile feature is the sound chip. I really love the looks of the toastrack, and it's okay to type on in 48k BASIC, but the Amstrad Spectrums that followed are so much better at being used as 128k machines.
My history is: ZX Spectrum 48K, Amiga 500, PC.
The ZX Spectrum 128's heatsink was the "European Apple III" of the 80s. (17:44)
19:51 I used to drawl at that advert hoping to get one for xmas which I did. Upgraded over my 48k+ and discovering xmas day the built in tape deck was awful. Loaded about 30% of my game copies. Had to use my own tape player still for all my playground swappables. Loved the keyboard though.
Never had true 128 software for our 128d. 😢
The C128 was such a bodge. All it managed to do was draw sales away from the Amiga. The C64 deserved a successor like the Apple //gs, not the hodgepodge the 128 turned out to be.
I'll never understand why there was a need to waste time and money adding CP/M compatibility to everything. Few people actually seemed to use it on home computers. I was an Atari guy and have always wanted a 1200XL.
To hear someone whose native tongue is English say "The huge success of the MSX standard" is a little funny to me 😅but it sure is a lovely little machine! Was quite popular here in the Netherlands fortunately, as it had some cool early Konami games. I could certainly see a future video for failed 16 bit upgrades, fingers crossed eh?
I got the GX4000, not when it came out, but a couple of years later when it was new old stock and from memory only cost me something like literally £30 to buy. I managed to end up getting something like 7 or 8 games in total for it. I do still have it, but I don't think I've had it set up for probably about 20 years at this point. No reason why it wouldn't still work though, might try and dig it out and give it a go!
The original power supplies are apparently quite dangerous, so you might want to get a new one first!
The Sinclair QL was intriguing at the time and might have done well had it come out a little cheaper and withiut the bugs.
I stuck with the Speccy and C64 until the early Amstrad 286 PC came along.
Awesome video as always thx.
The Atari 800XL (with disk drive) was the first Atari I owned, so didn't know about compatibility issues. I loved it and swapped loads of games for it. Unfortunately, the local shops had loads of magazines for the C64 but nothing for the Atari. Oh well.
The 800XL had a much higher level of compatibility than the 1200XL, as I said in the video it was the "fix".
@@TheLairdsLair you did! Crazy that they made the 1200 the way they did... Then went backwards in numbers...
Yeah, that was the time that Atari really started getting themselves in a mess. Shame as the 800XL was such a great computer and deserved better.
In 1986 I really wanted a C128. It seemed like a great computer, and also seemed like it could have better games. But in my hometown nobody sold Commodores. So I bought a Spectrum +2. I did liked the +2 quite a bit, but it would have been amazing if I could buy the C128. Amazing video, as usual. Thank you so much
Good video. Nice length as well.
There is another turbo r computer . 2+ was also only release officially in Japan . Made by Sony , Sanyo and Panasonic . Msx2 systems could be upgraded .
Good video but must correct you on the Spectrum +2. While it visually resembled the CPC464 it had absolutely nothing in common with it inside. Early +2 machines (the grey ones) were largely a slightly reworked Spectrum 128 board with a tape drive added on. Later +2 machines (the black ones, identified as the +2a and +2b on boot up) had a board derived from the disc-based Spectrum +3, which itself was a significant redesign (introducing many hardware and software incompatibilities that didn't exist in the previous 128k models) and while these boards had strong design similarities with the cpc464/6128, it, like the original 128k and +2 spectrums, had no real similarity with their CPC cousins. They could not run CPC software and the only thing they did have in common software-wise was that the +2a/+2b/+3 could run a version of CP/M, not that there was really much software written for the Spectrum running CP/M, so it was largely pointless. The +3 was axed in 1990 due to poor sales, while the +2 carried on until 1992, seeing the humble Spectrum to its 10th birthday. Given the +2 was launched in 1986 just months after the 128, 6 years is not a bad run for a machine outdated at the point of launch and just shows that Alan Sugar was able to keep flogging basically the same machine and milking the Spectrum cash cow when Sir Clive had already thought it passed its prime, just a shame the original (and technically superior to many) Spectrum 128k didn't last as long!
I'm not sure what you are correcting, I was referring to its looks, nothing else.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the Apple III considering it was shown in the intro. Other than that, very informative video as I knew some but not all of these models.
I did consider it, but I really don't know enough about Apple computers to do it justice, perhaps in the future.
A note, MSX2+ was only released in Japan as Turbo R ;)
I Believe the Gx4000 had a shonkey power supply. But i wouldn't know as mine has never left its box.
I didn't upgrade badly rather went thebwronf track. I loved the engineering and design my Memotech bit the promise was never fulfilled. Parents could never have afforded the BBC B......😢
Still loving that English Accent though :) I have an Australian accent so you have to excuse me :P
Yes The 128/128D did come out around the same time as the A1K which in my opnion was bad timing for both computers cross competing in the Market at the same time getting divided attention while the C64/c64C was still moving ahead and doing mass sales (and sales discounts over a wide variety of stores inlcuding big names as Big W, Target and Even ALDI) ,
The 128 Was actually a C64 hybrid in a beefed up case/drive considering the machine was used as a c64 99% of the time so it was clever to just get the C64 at half the price. Atari Kept making the same machines over and over at an inflated price fooling the consumer it was a far more advanced machine then the previous models, only it was the same :) The deceiving machine.
Spectrum tried to compete in the overall market (cost reduced units and minimization, and i laughed at the sinclair commercial when it went through the conveyor saying the "Professional Keyboard") but it sadly ran out of ideas which most of these systems had become obsolete contracted designs (Sinclair research paid developers) but then again you can only do... or stretch so far with a zilog Z80 chip, it was pretty much an industrial standard chip originaly used for factory robotics not really up to scratch with home Computing and it was made in the early 70's go figure, cant update no matter how many decades you use the same chip. Not entirely a Sinlclair research engineering product but almost all the computers developed were reverse engineered according to its manifestation. The only intervention with Sinclair computers was harware adaptation for sound and graphics which struggled with compatability issues, but somehow managed to draw a crowd in the 8-bit market, crazy market price drops perhaps ??? Clever Clive Sinclairs Story is Pretty much the mirror version of Dickie Dick Smith Electronics when he first started out in radio electronics, opened up a few stores, developed a few cheap unsuccesful home computers (Rip off versions of Vtech) scattered ideas here and their then sold it off and liquadated his entire chain of stores to Woolworths Limited, because cheap imports from china (was his obvious excuse from a Guy like geo explorer Dickie to come up with) flooded the market with commercial electronics and his components stores died along with him....☠
I think it boils down to bad Business management and limited imagination. The term I usually use is "Divided Focul Attention"..kind of like a kid in a candy store coming across everything as one big Candy. 🍬
I'd say Alan Sugar was more like Dick Smith from your description as you have to remember that Sir Clive actually came up with several very important inventions including the portable TV, digital watch and digital calculator,
CRT TV Was a Japanese invention, Clive seemingly made it portable been 2 inches and all, The Digital Watch was from an Australian Engineer and the Digital Calculator Was from an American Engineer. Ah Elon Musk never invented a shroud either, he had money to hire and buy peoples interlectuals properties. (thought I add that one usually some people bring the inheritance guy up) I know the whole history of electronics sounds bit complex and silly, but the truth to claim has to start somewhere. Yeah dont know much about Sugar, seemed like an interest/invest businessman like porr old Dickie (The Peanut Butter man:))
I bought a toastrack spectrum off my mate for £10 about ten years ago, I just looked up how much they go for on eBay and I'm in shock!
Found one at a car boot sale in the mid 1990s, think I paid £3 for it. Really ought to dig it out again and see if it still works!
Alan Sugar was the del boy of the industry at this time all the talk but no real idea of what to do up against giants like Sega & Nintendo. He knew how to bully bargain people down to acquire the company, product & and rights, but then had no real structure within his company to evolve on ideas already created or superseded by other companies.Thats why Amstrad failed badly.
Bang on!
Great video. Many of these were not necessarily bad products, and were decent upgrades, but not big enough, and often too late, too little.
For the future videos, could you make sure to cite sources in the video, like sources of photos, paper advertisement, etc? There is 90+ images and photos, without source mentioned.
As of me, my computer stories were around Commodore 64, then PC, so not much to say. I belive ZX Spectrum was available also, but a lot of other stuff, like Ataris, MSX, were not available in the country I lieved. Friend had Amiga 1200, around 1997, but everybody else was rocking PC by that time. I had my own first PC computer around 2000, so most of these weirdness of 80s and 90s passed without me.
If I use images or videos that aren't public domain I always cite the sources and put link backs in the description. With images that are in the public domain its almost impossible to determine their origins.
Had a used 800XL, fun maschine.
The C128 was not a failure in any sense of the word. It sold over 2.5 million computers. Not even close to a failure.
In another sense, you can say the new standard never caught on and that these 2.5 million 128s were operated in 64 mode and it was therefore a flop. But tell that to Commodore who sold 2.5 million computers.
That's literally what I said in the video, were you even listening?
@@TheLairdsLair I posted it before you got to that.
The horrible graphics mode of any Speccy (how a toddler colors a drawing) put me off so much that any upgrade that doesn't fix that is worthless.
I bought a CBM 128 but most of the time it stayed in 64 mode. CPM was in there but it was so slow. The 64 mode did not use the hi speed drive so unless you had speed up software it was not worth it. I never saw any 128 games that where machine code most of the ones I saw used the enhanced basic and sprite control. It was still my favourite 8 bit computer. I ended buy an Amiga 500 which was so much better.
It's true - the 128 speccy wasn't much of an upgrade. I skipped it and went to the +2 which was a lot better...though the sound was screwed in mine and my mates models - it's a disgrace really.
Whoa, whoa, whoa how did the MSX TurboR fail? That has to be the coolest looking micro I have ever seen. Did the final product actually look like this 9:32?! We didn't get the MSX Standard in the US which I always found strange. Hell, I didn't even know MSX existed at all. I was so enthralled by my Sega Genesis in 1989 that I truly believed it was untouchable in the home at that time (it was in the US). But I digress...
I just went to an MSX site to see if I could get a look at its spec page and I ask again...how did this machine fail? It should have no issues throwing down with the Genesis, TG-16, and Snes. The only thing I see that it is missing would be like a Mode 7 kind of thing. However, when you have access to 256KB of RAM solely for the VDP you should have no problems running software scaling all over the screen. If Panasonic had marketed this micro as a true gaming machine that did light computing at a cost that was in-line with with the PC Engine+CD ROM ROM they may have done well.
Addendum- It is possible that I missed something. I am not fluent in Japanese...so I could have made a mistake here. I also read that it was capable of displaying 4096 colors and could reach unheard of resolutions in 1990.
For reference- I love the Zilog Z-80 processor. It was such a huge workhorse for not only Sega but anyone that developed arcade games from 1981-1996+. The Master System, Sega Genesis, Neo Geo AES/MVS/CDZ, CPS-1, CPS-1.5, CPS-2, every Sega Super Scaler made, Konami created so many boards with that processor...it's endless. The only processor that was used more was the Motorola 68K and I love it just as much.
The image at 9:32 is a mock-up of a Sony branded MSX3, not the Panasonic Turbo R. I did show the specs for the Turbo R in the video at 10:20.
The C128 was a failure in my eyes at the time I skipped it and many with me.
Also The 1001 Crew I had contact with, I got my software from them I had to buy a 1541 disk drive, they didn't do tapes.
He always said I would still be here next week 😂
So I had to deliver more newspapers, which succeeded to get the money together.
The Commodore 128 added little in the way of software, it also had limitations that should not be there, it was also an expensive system and since new software kept coming out on the Commodore 64 there was no reason to!
Remember the 1001 crew had an Amiga 500 first.
Which I would later also buy and which I would exchange for an Amiga 2000 a few years later because I wanted to put accelerator cards and in A500 you miss the Zorro slots.
Was expensive joke but that's what you have with computer hobby.
Also had 3 Disk Drives with it 5.25" 20 mb each seems small now but was big for that time.
Looked like a fighter jet with startup what a noise is different now with ssd's haha.
Computer C128 was also cumbersome device was too big for me.
Another thing The 1001 Crew were also the first to move Sprites in the boarder on the C64 my buddy was the first who could do it in all sides and angles something was 1001 Crew did not succeed in the time.
Well after our help we then worked together occasionally through me she got to know me buddy F.B he was a Genius.
TMC we were called in those days.
1984 1985
The Atari 1200XL was the beginning of mass customer confusion over what model of Atari computer to get and what compatibility issues there may be. Things might have gone differently if Atari had simply went with a cost reduced Atari 800 to begin with.
The original Atari 400 and 800 designs were built like main battle tanks. All that cast steel!
Maybe if Atari had simply come out with a cost reduced "Atari 800B", then things would have gone better. Simply slapping a "B" on the end of the name would manage expectations - this isn't supposed to be an upgrade, it's a fully compatible model. This would have come out before the C64, so it would look pretty good compared to the competition.
I 100% agree, even if they had gone 400XL and 800XL, they should have kept those monikers to avoid confusion.
@@TheLairdsLair How about this idea - an Atari 6400? It's 5200+800+400, with 6 joystick ports (four DB9 and two 5200). It's compatible with 800, 400, and 5200, and it's got a total of 64K of RAM (equal to 800 plus 400 RAM).
I dunno, just a silly thought based on the coincidence that 5200+800+400 = 6400.
My upgrade was a sega master system 1990 loved and hated my specky
There's that other failure to remember ... the Oric Atmos. Which is what the original Oric 1 should have been from the start, but oops, wasn't. The Atmos arrived just in time to be swept aside first by the Atari ST, then the Amiga.
And of course, who can forget the Sinclair QL? Which despite having a 68000 family CPU, was far too close in appearance to the Spectrum to be taken seriously by the intended user base. Which wanted a proper business computer with at the very least, decent capacity floppy drives, and ideally the ability to bolt on a hard disc. Even early 286 PCs were shipping with hard drives at the time, which made them far more attractive, and when the first 386 PCs appeared, it was game over for any serious computer that wasn't 32 bit. The QL was a joke in comparison. Seriously, microdrives?
To put things in perspective, those with money to burn could splash out on a Sage IV shortly after the QL came out. Yes, expensive as hell, but you got a 68000, 512K of RAM, and a robust multitasking operating system along with a 20 MB hard drive. The RAM could be taken to 768K from the factory, and aftermarket upgrades gave you 2 MB of RAM. Ran like a bat out of hell by late 80s standards, and you got serious development tools thrown in as standard - a full featured 68000 macro assembler, and a choice of ANSI C and Pascal compilers. You could even get COBOL and FORTRAN on a Sage if you wanted, at surprisingly little extra cost, though if you could afford to treat yourself to a Sage, you were probably also thinking about parking a Porsche Carrera in your driveway :)
Once 386 boxes appeared, it was basically Game Over for a huge swathe of computers (including, sadly, the speed demon that was the Archimedes, though ARM chips would conquer the mobile market later). From that point on, PCs were well and truly taking over the world, and even the games industry switched once that happened.
Oh, and retro fans interested in other obscure computers can look up the Enterprise 128, which was again a flop. That one tried in its own quirky way to be a sort of Z80 Amiga, with the CPU assisted by a brace of custom chips. That one's now an expensive collector's item.
I did consider including the Oric Atmos and also the Dragon 64 too.
The Oric Atmos looked really nice in the adverts and the keyboard also looked like a massive improvement. I think I read that inside it was identical to the Oric 1.
HOW DO THEY FAIL AT SUCH A VIRGIN TIME IN GAMING
The 1200XL isn't that incompatible. It was just too expensive. (which also provided a big boost to 800 sales.)
(I have one with multi-OS switcher and 256K.)
Harsh to call the toast rack a failure as it was a stepping stone that kept the Spectrum going through to early nineties.
A bit harsh yes, but I think I explained my reasoning well.
@@TheLairdsLair The Register has a good article today around the chaotic development for it.
Yes, the Spectrum 128 wasn’t a failure; it just had a short life as it was a casualty of Sinclair’s business misjudgement. But I got mine in early 1986 and loved it. It nevertheless became the foundation of Amstrad’s entire range (the +2 was the same machine in a new, ugly case), not to mention all the more modern clones. The biggest disappointment with hindsight was the lack of any graphical enhancements, but frankly I didn’t care about that in 1986. The Spectrum’s quirky graphics are much maligned but contribute strongly to the machine’s character and actually have a lot to commend them. My greatest disappointment with the 128 in 1986 was that I wanted the numeric keypad add-on for it, like the Spanish version had, but Sinclair failed to release it in the UK market.
I got a 128k Toast Wrack on launch day in the uk, and a +2 12 hours before launch day, and the toast wrack version was WAY better
Once the Atari STFM was announced the C128 looked poor value. For £1000 you could get an ST with floppy, 512K and monitor.
To upgrade a 128 to that spec would have cost you more. Sure you could play more games on a 128 but who pays £1000 in 1987 to play games?
Exactly!
I hope the typewriter is on rhis list because i got one in 1973 and to this day it won't play any games.
Got to say while a actual shit time for the upgrade, the spec-wise of the CPC-Plus range would actually fit the dream 8bit computer of mine. Like no way was that the right thing to do at the time. Given the market they were facing, further budget reduced model of it would've made more sense to take over for the Speccy as the low end, where a 16Bit Computer would've been required if they wanted to stay relevant.
I sometimes wonder what a "Amstrad" 16bit machine would've looked like given the opinions of the man himself. I think that its likely that it would be Motorola based, given much like the Zilog processor in the Speccy and CPC it was already being produced in large quantities so it would be the most likely option to get cheap and to find programmers for the cheap too. But Sugar was a sly one, its possible that he would've done something akin to the Floppy drive deal he'd gotten in the past.
I would probably need to research things a lot in order to find out the result and given what Sugar actually went for at the time, it's obvious that a 16bit machine of his own was never in the cards. But it is a interesting "what if" to try and figure out.
Yeah I have often thought about that too, he decided to go down the PC route rather than design his own, but I think we probably would have ended up with something very similar to the ST, but probably even more bare bones in some regards like no MIDI or high-res screen mode.
Supposedly there is a compact Atari 400 like machine in the works with a bunch of built in games. If it has Star Raiders (I not II) I'll buy it. Maybe not otherwise.
There is, but I'm not impressed by it to be honest. The 400 was the wrong design to use, it only has 25 games on it and it's quite expensive for what it is.
the problem with frailer videos is ,,,,,,, we have .......... HINDSIGHT ..........
the people at the time thought what they thought,,
then maybe 6 months to make cases & electronics ,, software etc
and you cant see what the other people are thinking & upgrading there product etc
Is that fzero on msx?
Basically, yes!
Speccy 128 was the flop for me. Saved up for many newspaper round months to get one at release time, and all it had was better sound, what a let down! we all really wanted better graphics!. Sold it not long after for an Amiga, and wow was that the mutts nuts of a machine! and stayed with Amigas for almost 10 years! (before finally going down the pc road and jumping on the www).