AKA BSA bush to bearing #10 Fitting the bearings and testing the "crankshaft" fit and rotation. Also an update from today at the end. Onward and upwards friends Ade
A10 is pre-metric, should be easier to use Imperial measures? The early motors were 'semi-unit' later ones were probably not so well made (cutting costs cutting corners) I always wonder why it took Harley Davidson another 50+ years to bolt transmission to crankcase? As you mentioned circlips, there is also a right way to fit them in pistons. 'Heavy side up' gap at the bottom because piston is moving max speed at TDC and stops suddenly to reverse direction but at BDC as the con-rod angle is different is 'slows down' at a lower rtate. Even less people know about that (until now ;o) )
Great to have you watching the channel, really is appreciated. I'll leave you to catch up on the past episodes for a while, please do look through the comments and replies as they would help answer some of your questions and points. It would be great if you could find the SRM crank dimensions, that would be interesting. I have been progressing with BSA this week, so there might, but only might, knowing me, be an update soon. Best wishes, Ade.
In a re-engineering working alone, it is much more difficult than a factory with a huge team each taking care of different problems. As was the case now, having to consult bearing catalogs and still having to select producing countries for the service to be successful. Would you like to know the ideal axial clearance for the most powerful twins? Thankful!
Hey Ade, re: the 12:10 mark... I *DID* say something; I suspect you might not have heard me... BTW, with my considered opinion, based on my extensive experience with these engines (which is sod all, apart from watching this video series), I would expect this to have a bit of a 'clunk' to her - even w/o a cush drive. In "*theory*", nothing but the cush drive should be able to present any axial load. In practice, tiny discrepancies in the connecting rods, rings, pistons, the axial relationship of the cam, the mission of the cam drive gears, etc as well as theloads presented by oil windage inside the case might tend to push the crank assembly one way or the other - and might cause it to float on acceleration or deceleration. I would expect the force of the oil being pumped into the one end of the crank would tend to bias it to one direction. .012" (or .008") seems super large to me (disclaimer: all my experience is with large American V8 engines, that use a flanged sleeve bearing to take up the thrust). My instinct would be that "less is more" here. Enough end play that the bearing isn't under an axial preload would be enough. And, I would expect the aluminum casesto grow more with heat than the steel crank, causing the assembly to loosen up is the engine came to temperature. Any more than that, I would expect to be a detriment; if the crank assembly moves side to side, allowing it to smack more abruptly when it comes to the end of its travel. Kind of like the difference in force you can apply with a hammer, which changes greatly whether you swing it .001", 6", or 30" - the more room you get to get it moving, the harder you hit Also, taking up any axial force on that roller gives me pause for consideration. I'm not familiar with that particular roller, and what it is designed to do. When I see roller bearings in a machine, I often times see them providing no axial locating, and the entire thrust taken up by a pair of tapered roller, or ball bearings somewhere else along the shaft, either a double bearing assembly, or two discrete units with a selectable shin between them, or something of that nature So, that's my "armchair quarterback" take on the situation - now I'll just go back to watching a guy who may know a fair bit more than me about these engines carry on with it.
This is good thoughts thanks. The case expansion should not be a problem, remember the axial movement is only in the bearing, which is, according to the spec designed for 'moderate' axial load in both directions, supposedly.. In the standard set up, thrust one direction is taken by the thrust face of the bush, which until the A65 was not an actual thrust bearing, it was the steel location housing for the white metal or vandervell lining, only pattern later bushes were solid bronze of whatever composition, and the opposite thrust direction was controlled by the lip of a roller bearing. A lot to think about. Now, another thought : what filler metal to use for spline repairs... 🤔
Thoroughly enjoying this, great to see you back. This is all very useful knowledge for those of us who grew up on Japanese bikes and have found ourselves with Brit bikes😮Many thanks for these videos.
Well I never thought about the c clips being used incorrectly all of these years i used them even though I seen the rounded edge myself thanks ade I also agree that the bearings you order are from a source that had a great reputation are now cheap skating in china or some other place still using the same name ,,,,, doubleboost had some and they weren’t any harder than a jelly you could file them away ,thanks for the video s
Great video Ade, project is gathering momentum. It was interesting to see the difference between those bearings. I'm glad you managed to snare a crankshaft, as you say it's a mini project in itself. Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
@@AGEngineering it's a tricky one. I think it depends on what the shaft was made from originally. I was talking to my brother about it. He's a got a lot of welding experience from working off shore. I suggested TIG brazing. That might work. He mentioned 316 Stainless but said it was tricky as it could crack. It would be interesting to find out what method is used in crank reconditioning workshops. Regards, Dean.
Glad you mentioned tig brazing, that was what I was thinking. My biggest concerns are distortion and going too hot requiring heat treatment after, things I want to avoid. I also have a plan for building up the worn threads, without welding or loctite, epoxy etc
That was very interesting. True research and development. It was an education to see the difference in end float on the comparator between two supposedly interchangeable bearings. I'm looking forward to seeing how you deal with the splines. Once again, I really enjoyed it. And not a CNC plasma cutter in sight.
I'd have a cnc plasma cutter if I had room! Got a vertical bandsaw coming for my birthday, a wood cutter I'm going to be changing to metal cutting. Have to make room for that. New shed 😉
@@AGEngineering It's always good to get new tools. A vertical bandsaw sounds great. I sold my big SIP horizontal bandsaw and got a little one that I made a plate for so I can use it as a vertical one too. The play in the bearings was interesting. I've been using budget bearings in my Harrison Mill refurbishment. So far just in the feed gearbox. They are Dunlop ones from Bearing Boys and seem ok. I think I'll spring for the expensive ones for the main gearbox though, especially after seeing your video today.
I like the belt idea,, ballrace is the way to go.
I think for a low tune 500 l would, we'll see what we end up with
A10 is pre-metric, should be easier to use Imperial measures?
The early motors were 'semi-unit' later ones were probably not so well made (cutting costs cutting corners)
I always wonder why it took Harley Davidson another 50+ years to bolt transmission to crankcase? As you mentioned circlips, there is also a right way to fit them in pistons. 'Heavy side up' gap at the bottom because piston is moving max speed at TDC and stops suddenly to reverse direction but at BDC as the con-rod angle is different is 'slows down' at a lower rtate. Even less people know about that (until now ;o) )
Great to have you watching the channel, really is appreciated. I'll leave you to catch up on the past episodes for a while, please do look through the comments and replies as they would help answer some of your questions and points. It would be great if you could find the SRM crank dimensions, that would be interesting. I have been progressing with BSA this week, so there might, but only might, knowing me, be an update soon. Best wishes, Ade.
In a re-engineering working alone, it is much more difficult than a factory with a huge team each taking care of different problems. As was the case now, having to consult bearing catalogs and still having to select producing countries for the service to be successful. Would you like to know the ideal axial clearance for the most powerful twins?
Thankful!
Many thanks
Excellent videos Ade! Thanks very much for posting. I've really enjoyed them. Best wishes, Mike
Thanks for the support, Ade
Hey Ade, re: the 12:10 mark... I *DID* say something; I suspect you might not have heard me...
BTW, with my considered opinion, based on my extensive experience with these engines (which is sod all, apart from watching this video series), I would expect this to have a bit of a 'clunk' to her - even w/o a cush drive.
In "*theory*", nothing but the cush drive should be able to present any axial load. In practice, tiny discrepancies in the connecting rods, rings, pistons, the axial relationship of the cam, the mission of the cam drive gears, etc as well as theloads presented by oil windage inside the case might tend to push the crank assembly one way or the other - and might cause it to float on acceleration or deceleration.
I would expect the force of the oil being pumped into the one end of the crank would tend to bias it to one direction.
.012" (or .008") seems super large to me (disclaimer: all my experience is with large American V8 engines, that use a flanged sleeve bearing to take up the thrust). My instinct would be that "less is more" here. Enough end play that the bearing isn't under an axial preload would be enough. And, I would expect the aluminum casesto grow more with heat than the steel crank, causing the assembly to loosen up is the engine came to temperature.
Any more than that, I would expect to be a detriment; if the crank assembly moves side to side, allowing it to smack more abruptly when it comes to the end of its travel. Kind of like the difference in force you can apply with a hammer, which changes greatly whether you swing it .001", 6", or 30" - the more room you get to get it moving, the harder you hit
Also, taking up any axial force on that roller gives me pause for consideration. I'm not familiar with that particular roller, and what it is designed to do. When I see roller bearings in a machine, I often times see them providing no axial locating, and the entire thrust taken up by a pair of tapered roller, or ball bearings somewhere else along the shaft, either a double bearing assembly, or two discrete units with a selectable shin between them, or something of that nature
So, that's my "armchair quarterback" take on the situation - now I'll just go back to watching a guy who may know a fair bit more than me about these engines carry on with it.
This is good thoughts thanks. The case expansion should not be a problem, remember the axial movement is only in the bearing, which is, according to the spec designed for 'moderate' axial load in both directions, supposedly.. In the standard set up, thrust one direction is taken by the thrust face of the bush, which until the A65 was not an actual thrust bearing, it was the steel location housing for the white metal or vandervell lining, only pattern later bushes were solid bronze of whatever composition, and the opposite thrust direction was controlled by the lip of a roller bearing. A lot to think about. Now, another thought : what filler metal to use for spline repairs... 🤔
Lol.I was watching and tried to tell you but you couldn't hear from Nova Scotia Canada.Spacer was put in anyway.Nice to see you back at it.
I was telling myself when I was watching it also, weird..
Thoroughly enjoying this, great to see you back. This is all very useful knowledge for those of us who grew up on Japanese bikes and have found ourselves with Brit bikes😮Many thanks for these videos.
Many thanks for watching and commenting
Glad you found a crank.Too bad about the splines.Looking forward to how you dress these up.
Already doing the research!
Well I never thought about the c clips being used incorrectly all of these years i used them even though I seen the rounded edge myself thanks ade I also agree that the bearings you order are from a source that had a great reputation are now cheap skating in china or some other place still using the same name ,,,,, doubleboost had some and they weren’t any harder than a jelly you could file them away ,thanks for the video s
Forgot to mention if you want a precision German bearing ask Stefan gotteswinter he d make one to last a lifetime
Great video Ade, project is gathering momentum. It was interesting to see the difference between those bearings. I'm glad you managed to snare a crankshaft, as you say it's a mini project in itself. Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
So, thoughts on what to build the crank splines up with, answers on a postcard to..
@@AGEngineering it's a tricky one. I think it depends on what the shaft was made from originally. I was talking to my brother about it. He's a got a lot of welding experience from working off shore. I suggested TIG brazing. That might work. He mentioned 316 Stainless but said it was tricky as it could crack. It would be interesting to find out what method is used in crank reconditioning workshops. Regards, Dean.
Glad you mentioned tig brazing, that was what I was thinking. My biggest concerns are distortion and going too hot requiring heat treatment after, things I want to avoid. I also have a plan for building up the worn threads, without welding or loctite, epoxy etc
@@AGEngineering sounds interesting Ade. I thought of Tig brazing because of the lower heat. I also thought it's a bit softer so might not crack.
That was very interesting. True research and development. It was an education to see the difference in end float on the comparator between two supposedly interchangeable bearings.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you deal with the splines. Once again, I really enjoyed it. And not a CNC plasma cutter in sight.
I'd have a cnc plasma cutter if I had room! Got a vertical bandsaw coming for my birthday, a wood cutter I'm going to be changing to metal cutting. Have to make room for that. New shed 😉
@@AGEngineering It's always good to get new tools. A vertical bandsaw sounds great. I sold my big SIP horizontal bandsaw and got a little one that I made a plate for so I can use it as a vertical one too. The play in the bearings was interesting. I've been using budget bearings in my Harrison Mill refurbishment. So far just in the feed gearbox. They are Dunlop ones from Bearing Boys and seem ok. I think I'll spring for the expensive ones for the main gearbox though, especially after seeing your video today.
o goody a replacement crank..
I was close to actually making a real crank, still might one day just to see if I can
Looking good Granddad!
Hello, you're up early for 'learning engineering with grandad' 👍
@@AGEngineering Sorry to intrude. This post touched my heart. Learning engineering with Grandad is exactly how I learned engineering.
Fortunately we have UA-cam as we are 140 ish miles apart 😢
@@AGEngineering The Internet is great for that. The present situation must makes things harder too. I hope you get to see your grandchild soon.