Mastering Scene Structure (Fiction Writing Advice)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- The secret to writing better scenes lies in three-step structure.
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Techniques of the Selling Writer by Dwight Swain
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Advanced Fiction Writing article “Writing the Perfect Scene”:
www.advancedfictionwriting.co...
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I feel like your explanation of why the characters can't have what they want is dancing around the simple point: the story isn't over yet. I feel like there's this idea that authors are withholding satisfaction because readers get bored otherwise or something, but it's way simpler than that. If you put in an ending, readers are going to treat it like an ending.
I could physically feel this advice chiseling away my writer's block. Thank you!!!
this is such detailed and valuable advice, can't tell you how much I appreciate it. this is very different from the generic advice many popular authortube channels provide and it's exactly what I was looking for. thank you!
Thanks for the kind words! If there's ever a topic you'd like me to cover, let me know
*Large Scale*
Goal, conflict and disaster (scene)
Reaction(vicarious and empathy), dilemma and decision (sequel)
Scene > Sequel > Goal > Scene (repeat)
Your scenes should create the desired emotion you wish your reader to feel (Ex. Fear, lust, thrill, laughter)
This pattern will continue until your character reaches his ultimate defeat or ultimate victory at the end of the book
*Small Scale*
MRUs
From your main characters POV you will write what causes his Motivation and his Reaction
Motivation is external and objective
Reaction is internal and subjective
Separate the two MRUs so they are in two separate paragraphs. Each Motivation or Reaction can have multiple paragraphs as long as they are separate from one another
Your Reaction must follow a specific order which is:
1. Feeling (five senses)
2. Instinctive reflex
3. Rational actions, thoughts and speech
Note that you don’t have to include all three reaction patterns, but they must follow in that specific order.
Then you follow the Reaction with another Motivation
Note that a Motivation can be as complex or simple as you want
You continue alternating your Motivation and Reactions until your scene or sequel is over. Don’t drag on too long or stop too short.
Any part of your scene or sequel which is not a MRU must be *cut*
Feel free to edit and polish your scenes and sequels after writing them
*Conclusion*
Follow the Scene > Sequel process and understand that each Scene or Sequel has its own MRU within it
Yep, great stuff from Swain/Advanced Fiction Writing
@@WriterBrandonMcNultyjust couldn't let him have it huh?
?@@DirtyBobBojangles
@@DirtyBobBojangles What do you mean? The entire comment is pulled pretty much directly from that article which is pulled from that book. He was just giving credit where credit is due.
Dude breaks it down, straight no chaser!
Thanks!
I want to thank you for continuing to make your amazing videos even though you're not getting as much popularity as you deserve. It's a noble act!
Glad you like them! And honestly, I'm just being patient and hoping that the channel grows over time.
If you want to pass them along to friends and/or other writers, please do!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I don't have all that many writer friends or family members, but if anyone asks me for suggestions you'll be at the top of my list!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Random question for this old comment: Are you happy with the results in the past three years? What was the channel standing at that time? The reason I ask this is because you are one of the most insightful people I have came across in my journey to great story telling. I appreciate your help, and the work you’ve done. :)
This is my favorite writing related channel and videos like this remind me of why 🙌🏽🙌🏽
Went through the movie Spectral and it follows this pattern for the most part but there are a few scenes earlier on that don't follow it but instead are used to get to know certain characters a bit better. Definitely fun to go through examples and see this being used as it shows different ways in which I can do this myself.
This is so helpful. Thank you brother. Much respect.
Thanks for sharing this. Some of the best advice I’ve heard in a long time. Can’t wait to use this in my writing.
Glad it was helpful! And yeah, it's a game-changer because it simplifies every scene down into the bare basics
Fabulous breakdown! Thanks!!
Great vid! Thanks!! Very good article ref, too. I like it when someone says some simple shit and then I'm sweatin thinkin bout how much work there is to do now
I'm really enjoying your videos. Thank you.
Was the most recent scene you wrote a GOAL scene or a REACTION scene? Did it hit all three beats? Let us know!
@Daniella Cressman Glad to hear--best of luck with your writing!
Very helpful, thank you!
I looked at some of my work and I think I was doing some of this. Maybe just emulating other writers?
I'm still writing the end for a scene, but it is definitely goal oriented. It's based off the end of the last "chapter," where a decision was made. I introduce new information that causes a small amount of conflict. I'm still writing the end. Not sure how "disastrous" to make it.
The more disastrous, the better! That forces your heroes to find a more creative way out
Lot of help bro! Your content in amazing!
Don't believe Brandon about _Bad Parts._ I'm about half-way through it and can tell you that there are none!
Thanks for this video. I'm coming from writing mostly in a genre that doesn't always follow the traditional three act play or this scene structure. Now, as I'm working on something more traditional, I needed this reminder.
Thanks for the kinds words about the book! Glad it's keeping you engaged
What genre are you coming from btw?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Memoirs, but not for a general audience. The short vignettes are designed for a specific audience and purpose: to make a reader feel good in around 10-15 minutes, so no conflict or disaster, and no reflection. My readers tend to lose interest after the climax.
At one point, however, I inadvertently included some things that made a short, multi-chapter series a decent read with conflict and everything, as my studies began to pay off -- despite my best intentions. :)
Didn't see this till today (UA-cam apparently doesn't notify me of replies to my replies), but I'm curious... do you inject humor into your vignettes? Usually humor is a workaround for conflict-less stories
Thanks Brandon❤
Can you please explain when to consider a scene end/begin? Is it always a location change? Anew character enter? Anything else! Forgive my bad English 😊
Legit appreciate and love your videos so much. Why can’t we have more writers like you scripting films?? 😂
I’m really inspired by your videos - thank you for sharing :)!
Thanks for watching!
great, found a new perspective. 🙌
Thanks a lot. This is good
Wow what a great scene break down... I feel like Stargate Atlantis followed these steps all the time. Thanks for sharing
Thanks! And I've been meaning to get into Stargate for years. Where's the best place to start?
I usually tend to combine them, thanks for the tips! 😎🤘🤘
Any time! And be careful when combining them. It *can* be done, but it can also confuse the reader
Great advice. ♥️
Glad it helped!
Simple, but good advice.
Great lessons! 👌
Thanks for watching!
Thanks man!!
Anytime. Glad it helped!
Most useful stuff thanks for this😍
You got it! Thanks for watching
I love this video!
Glad it helped--thanks for watching!
Very helpful!
Thanks!
nuggets of gold, this is
Thanks!
That video opened up a floodgate for me. Thanks.
So, how does this sort of thing work in a 3 act structure or a Manga structure?
I'm thinking of a different kind of scenes, probably for a different kind of stories, such as mystery novels. Let's say the police are trying to solve a murder and each scene gives them new clues that put them on the track of further clues in the next scene till they have the whole picture. You can still have obstacles like red herrings, clues that lead nowhere, witnesses who lie, etc., but there doesn't need to be any disaster or dilemma. Not in every scene, anyway. I wouldn't structure the entire novel with this kind of scenes, but I do think they are fairly common in that kind of literature. What do you think? Great channel! I hope you read comments for old videos.
Thanks for the kind word about my channel!
As for you question... Yes, not every scene needs to end in "disaster." Sometimes you can have a scene end with "resolution" instead. But if your detective finds a clue (which is positive), try making that clue disastrous if possible (for example, maybe the clue signals a betrayal or something tragic)
Thank You
Anytime. Thanks for watching!
Great explanation brother
Thanks for watching!
This is analogous to the Deming cycle of Quality Management-Plan, Do, Study and Act. Plan is like Goal and Do is where we meet Conflict and Disaster. Study is the Reaction and Dilemma. Act is the next decision which leads to the next Plan or Goal. And so the cycle continues. There must be some fundamental truth about the human brain in this.
Another helpful video, thanks! But I wonder: Do I have to do this for *every* singel scene in my book? Even for something mundane like going shopping or something? Everything you have described, but also things from your other videos, makes so much sense and is more or less pretty easy to realise in something more "action" based or epic. But I really struggle with implementing this in stories that are more slow paced, where nothing overly much happens (at least not in every scene like in fantasy or science fiction where you go from running from Orcs, and then from Stormtroopers in the next scene). But since that's what I'm currently trying to write, I struggle very much with almost every one of the helpful points you've made. Does someone have an advice for that?
Absolutely, yes. It's the responsibility of the author to tell us why and what we're doing in any given place.
On the upside: That problem quickly vanishes as soon as you have a good reason for your character to be in a said place/situation and then tell that to the audience. Not every scene has to be exciting, but we *always* have to know why we're there.
The link that Brandon posted for "advanced fiction writing" is extremely helpful and is a reasonably quick read that covers this in more and better detail.
Thank you! I will work on this for my scenes. But, question, what about scenes that are meant to prvide information? I'm trying to inject information (clues if you wish) slowly in scenes to prevent info dumps. However, those scenes don't necessarily end in disaster. They might actually end in resolution that motivate a character to do XYZ . Or in romance, there are scenes that push the lovers together (the happy feels ones) that don't end up in disaster but encourage the characters to keep pursuing that relationship. You know what I mean? Also, PS, I just finished reading Entry Wounds and I loved it! Thanks so much.... hopefully there will be a part 2??
Hi! Just recently found your blog and YT videos. Really great stuff in bite sized videos. Much appreciated. My question is would this be more of a theoretical thing? Or actually put into practice? Like plenty of stories (great ones especially like GoT or HP) do this for EVERY scene? Is that the goal or the ideal to have this in every scene because I feel like plenty of those stories don't have the GCD and RDD in all of their scenes? I'm just basically trying to understand how to go about this
It's good to aim for GCD or RDD in each scene. Once you've mastered writing scenes, you can break the rules (in writing, rules are always made to be broken--so long as you know what you're doing)
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thanks I appreciate that. Very helpful.
7:00 The scene that wrote is a reaction scene. It didn't hit the three steps because I had not finished it.
I don't always follow this formula as I like to mix it up and keep the reader guessing. If you have a minor plot thread, you don't always want it to end in disaster and abject failure. You NEED to show your main character getting small victories along the way to show progressing in your character. If your character's a miserable failure or a bumbling oaf the whole time, who can never achieve a single thing, then when the character wins the big victory, it'll just come across as a "plot armor win" or a fluke and won't be believable. I just finished writing a goal oriented scene where the main character defeats a minor villain that's part of the resolution of a minor plot thread and the set up for another plot thread that will span into the 2nd book in a series. However this sets up a reaction scene where the main character now has to deal with the widow and 2 kids of the minor villain, and the realization of the kind of lives they lived while under the boot of the villain. That sets up a whole new plot thread that spans 2 books, and will lead to other plot threads that can set up new stories in this world with new characters.
Is it possible to play with this structure of scenes out of order? Like say for example use this exact structure but backwards 🤔.…
I wonder if "sequences" would be a better word choice than "scenes". It's semantics, but I get hung up on little things like that. For instance if you have a goal, let's say a heist scene, there's tons of conflict, everything goes wrong and the hero extracts the asset by the skin of their teeth. Great. But the "disaster' doesn't happen until the next scene when they find out they stole the wrong thing or it doesn't have the value they thought they could fence it for. There could be 3 scenes here describing the Goal, the Conflict and Disaster. Could there equally be three more scenes describing the Reaction, Dilemma and Decision?
Hmm... For simplicity's sake it's probably best to keep the G/C/D or R/R/D within one scene. You certainly can show a disaster or decision in a separate scene (especially if you're writing something that bounces back between two different storylines, like when a movie cuts back and forth.) Entirely up to you.
Not written, but revised: both. I don't structure my scenes this way but try to keep both in one, if possible. In this case my main character Alan wants to save his lover from his father's plans and needs the help of his younger brother Andrew for it (goal), but Andrew is not going to help him. Instead he suggests that Alan gets his act together and finally stands against their father (conflict). As Alan hesitates, Andrew sides with their father (disaster). A really short reaction sequence follows, where Alan first is in disbelief, because his brother acts against his beliefs in siding with their father (reaction). Alan realizes he's on his own and he can't please his father and save his lover at the same time. He's also without any help in his endeavour (dilemma). As it's his character he tries to escape a tight situation by distracting himself from it (decision), but this doesn't work so he moves on to talk to his father (new goal - new scene).
Could you do a video on writing short scenes?
I’ll add it to my request list. Thanks!
So it's like moving each scene like chess pieces, if you get me?
just make sure most of your stuff isnt just reaction scenes.with lots of anime there is always more reactions than actual conflict
You need balance either way. If you have action-action-action without any reaction, you don't get insights into how the characters feel about the events
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty yeah i understand.i was just talking about the thing of lots of anime fighting shows just add it in to increase length of the episode not as a means to develop the characters.it is more of a gasp oh no and more of gasps oh no
@@potatomanboooi3105 Gotcha. Yeah, I could see that...when character react, they're not necessarily pushing anything forward. You can stall for days doing that.
Thank you so much for this video! I used to call these scenes "Fast" and "Slow" and never made any distinction beyond that. I'm glad my instinct was right in a way though!
I do have a question: I'm wondering though that with these two types of scenes, does that mean it's just an endless cycle of events that lead to disasters on and on and on? How will I know once I need to stop and give the character a success?
You can have success in one area and failure in another. Think about Empire Strikes Back when Han and Leia finally kiss (romantic success) but they get interrupted due to issues with the Falcon (failure to achieve safety). As long as there is some type of failure at play, you should be fine.
@Writer Brandon McNulty I always imagine I have to let them recover or recharge in another setting with every reaction or "Slow" scene. What comes first to my mind is the scene in Man of Steel when Clark goes to church, to try and process everything that has happened to him so far in the movie. So with your Empire Strikes Back example, does that mean goal scenes and reaction scenes can also happen within the same timeframe and setting?
@@Firebrand511 Most of the time it's best to keep things simple and have a scene be either a Goal scene or a Reaction scene. You can have multiple short scenes occur in the same setting, that's totally fine, but forcing a Goal and Reaction into the same timeframe can make the story complicated and/or messy.
I think as you experiment more with Goal and Reaction scenes (and pay attention to them in the stories you digest), you'll learn what works and what doesn't.
But in general, stories are complex works that are made of simple parts.
Reaction scene.
Though I've got to ask if this is something that should always be followed.
I mean if I want to give my characters and readers a break. To slow the story down a bit after a long active scene, then shouldnt I try to end without a disaster or a decision that is obvious or simple.
Not all disasters are devastating, so you can end on a mild setback or something that leaves the readers uncomfortable if you want to lower the tension.
I've also seen "Goal Conflict Disaster" as "Goal Conflict Resolution" in some writing guides. Resolution can include a positive ending to a scene, and it's okay to have scenes end happily now and then--just make sure to hint that there is more conflict to come.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Hmm...I see your point.
I wasn't thinking about the wide spectrum that the word disaster covers in this context.
Thanks for the quick response. Looking forward to your next vid.
@@uncertaintyunravelled8273 Thanks! And yeah, disaster can be as low-impact as missing the school bus in the morning or as high-impact as finding yourself in the middle of a school shooting.
Are these scenes more geared toward action novels?
No--you can use the Goal-Conflict-Disaster formula in anything. Like in a romance, you could have your protag attempt to ask out a love interest (Goal), then say something stupid that creates miscommunication (conflict), before offending the love interest (disaster).
Then Reaction-Dilemma-Decision would go something like this: Protag is mortified after offending their love interest (reaction), but realizes that there are ways to atone (dilemma) and finally decides upon a new goal (decision)
Then the process repeats.
Is it possible/valuable to have a scene that uses all six points? Both the Goal oriented and the reaction oriented?
Thank to whoever wants to answer :D
Are all dialogue scenes reaction scenes? Can you have action scenes with just dialogue? It can't be disaster all the time, right? The story must progress in some way?
Isn’t there 3 types of scene? A negotiation, a subduction and a fight?😊
Brandon-you mentioned a book about writing by a man named (I think) O'keefe- could you repeat that, please
Quick question: is there another type of scene besides these two? For example, a scene which is mainly used for exposition?
A good example I can think of is in Toy Story where the antagonist Sid is first being introduced. There's no goal in that scene at all other than finding out what fresh horror Sid has in store. And while there is certainly a reaction from the characters, they don't need to sort through any options or make any choices. The scene is essentially just an excuse to explain to Buzz (and the audience) that there is a serious danger living right next door to Andy's house. This is important set up for later, obviously. But it does go against the idea that there are only two types of scenes.
How do scenes like this tie into a story's structure, in your view? Do scenes like this have any structural guidelines that make them work more smoothly, that you know of?
Ideally you want your scenes to be action or reaction (since they actively push the plot forward), but there can be scenes that are purely exposition or there for fun or artistic purposes. Still, it’s best to try and work that exposition into an action/reaction scene if possible.
great question, I've also thought of this myself (i.e. exposition or other type of scenes) but if you remember the scene you used and examplecorrectly it still follows the "scene/sequel" formula. The scene starts with the toys suspecting that Sid is back and their goal is to investigate/confirm it is sid/confirm which toy he is torturing.
So the scene weaves in exposition and foreshadowing and doesn't need to be another "type" of scene, if that makes sense. it still follow the formula. what do you think, is that a fair assessment or do you disagree?
Also, Thank you for recommending that book!
Sure thing! Just be aware it's an older book and the sections/chapters are kinda long and rambly by today's standards. The content is valuable though
I really dig this, although sometimes certain points in storytelling media don't seem to fall quite into this formula (or at least not obviously to me?) Examples of this would be that sometimes after disaster there's success, a cool off period, etc then news/something big set the stage, and more information is revealed before a new goal is set. Sometimes in the beginning of a story, it feels like it takes a few expositional scenes before a goal is even established. Are these just examples of poorly constructed scenes? Can a scene take over several different locations? (Also, let's say a character has had a long-term goal or problem, and they're still affected aka "reacting" to it throughout the plot, like unresolved tension? Sometimes people have delayed reactions and blow up later, even if the setup was placed a while ago) Sorry, long message. Just confusing to me lol
Sometimes there's leeway with this, especially in movies where you might have "scenes" that are quick snapshots or scenes that are broken up over time (like you get half a scene without its conclusion, then jump to a new scene before getting that conclusion later on).
In general it's best to stick to traditional scene structure, but if you know what you're doing, you can try breaking the rules.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Great reply, thanks!
I think the key is to consider all those principles as guidelines, not rules. If you follow all of them all of the times (let's ignore that many of them contradict themselves in some way), you're going to end up with a formulaic mess that, most of the time, won't leave enough space for creativity to result in an entertaining story.
@@Max-kr2nlSo much this. Read the article mentioned, and there were some good insights and ideas, but the sucker author literally says anything that doesn't follow this is fluff and needs to be deleted (but don't worry because you can just tack on style and wit at the end). No room for multiple characters, mystery, symbolism, side characters, foreshadowing, or subplots, not to mention the many storytelling styles that exist around the world and are just as valid as Western conventions. These tips are really great if you aren't sure where to go or the story feels stalled because you're probably already doing a lot of this naturally anyways. So it can help you pinpoint what's wrong / unclear or inspire a way forward - super useful! But for the article to act like there is one (and only one) way to do things 'correctly' is disingenuous, at best.
4:15
Can you use both for a scene?
Potentially, yes. But I think you would run the risk of creating a messy/confusing scene. I'm trying to think of a good scene that achieves both and nothing is coming to mind.
hi brandon, is it possible to have a light hearted tone in a melodramatic story??? i would like to know for my own comic's sake
Sure, you can mix tones like that. Is there a certain story that inspired your comic (like a dram-edy, for instance?)?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty the film hacksaw ridge, the legends of zelda games and the comic called berserk.
@@joshcrackedboooi2392 Zelda would be a good example of balancing lighthearted tone with melodrama. Those stories pull you in with whimsical locations and cheery/wacky characters, but the story gets serious when it needs to.
I think that's the most important thing: make sure your story gets serious when the stakes dictate severity.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty thanks for letting me know!
Does every scene have to end with disaster or can some end differently?
it can end with a "resolution" instead
To add on, not all disasters are equal in impact.
Hitting my toe on the bed, isn't as impactful as getting shot.
So if these two always follow one another, why don't we just combine them all into one scene?
Bro what is the difference between scenes and screenplay bro if we have a story first wrote sceens and then division as screenplay or first select screenplay structure and then work on sceens...?? Bro
Scenes make up the screenplay, which is the entire story. Different writers will have different approaches... It may be easier to figure out the overall story before devoting time to scenes