When I worked for a master gunsmith back in the late 1980s, he always used to say, "you're paying me for what I know, not for what I do." I've always remembered that.
But ultimately, they can know everything . But if they don't actually do anything, you're not paying them, so you pay for them to do what they know how to do.
@@Randy-1967 You’re paying him to do what YOU don’t know how to do because if you did, you would have done it. Ergo, you’re still paying for his knowledge.
I’m in school to be a gunsmith and I can say I had no idea just how expensive it was to be competitive until I started buying tools. I agree most everyday people don’t consider how much things actually cost and even though it costs so much it doesn’t deter me from wanting to be a gunsmith. I have a passion for helping people and want to be the next John Moses Browning or Eugene Stoner. What advice could you give an aspiring gunsmith who wants to be the best he can be but, he’s on a smaller budget?
Thanks for watching. The best advice I can give you is to never stop learning. There is no substitute for experience nor accounting for talent. Take every opportunity you get to practice. I bought a lot of old cheap guns to learn on. One inexpensive .22 or single shot shotgun can provide many many lessons. Refinish the stock, polish and reblue the metal. Draw file rusty spots and learn how to blend them in so they are unnoticeable when reblued. Checker the stock, install a recoil pad, cut and recrown the barrel. In the end, the hundred bucks or so you spent on the cheap gun will have given you several opportunities to learn and practice before you ever touch a customer's gun. Remember when it comes to someone else's property, if you break it or ruin it, you buy it. Lastly, the hardest part of the process is evaluating your ability. Some of us are artists, we can turn out exquisite works of ate sculpted in wood and metal. Most are good workmen. We can fix your gun and make it look good but we lack that artistic ability. Others simply do not have the talent, patience or touch it takes to turn out quality work. anyone that honestly evaluates his work and discovers he simply doesn't have the talent or temperament will do him or her self a favor by leaving Gunsmithing to others and finding something they are good at. Talent-wise I fall someplace in the middle. I have seen great gun work. Flawless bluing that shines like a mirror without a single flaw. Carving and checkering that take your breath away and actions that have been worked to butter smoothness and I know my work is not up to that level. I have all the knowledge and experience but I am not an artist. I'm a journeyman gunsmith that can fix most anything, make it look good and give the customer a good functional and safe job but, I can't give him flawless perfection. So, I stay away from really high dollar custom guns. I have plenty of work installing scopes and recoil pads and fixing broken guns but I turn away the really expensive jobs that are beyond my talent. In the meantime, I have several inexpensive guns in the back waiting for the slow winter months when I'll have the time to repair, reefurbish and practice my checkering and carving skills. Never stop learning.
I love your channel you remind me of my uncle Dave a Navy Vet from the late fifties. He always sang happy trails . He was an avid hunter,fisherman, shooting enthusiast. I’m also a Navy vet and also loved the same things as well as the rest of my family!
Most people have no idea of the cost of tooling, or experience to do the job right.Thank you for explaining the cost of a job, done right, by a professional.God Bless you!
So the Brownells catalog has rough prices on what to charge for different services? Good to know maybe I should pick one of those up. Thanks. Really enjoy your channel.
Neither of those “good gents” appear to have missed any significant amount of lunches. In other words I think they don’t have any issues obtaining the prices they are requesting! Brilliant! Cheers mates!!
That’s amazing. The same rule applies for any collectible. “What’s it worth to the specific buyer”. The difference with cars, cameras, vintage electronics etc. is, it fetches more if it’s cleaned up and works. I guess guns are the anomaly because the history is tied to the value. Battle scratches.
LOL... I loved this video! Not sure how I found it but so glad I did! Just the other day, true story, I was logged in to a Gunsmithing Facebook page that I belong to. A fella was asking for some advice on how to install $4.00 worth of parts on a Winchester Model 1300 shotgun. He did not want to take it to a gunsmith cause the guy "might" charge him more than the gun was worth to install them! Long story short, he did get some helpful information from us but not after we kind of 'educated' him on the realities concerning our trade! You mention the cost of tools and how many jobs you've got to do to recoup that cast, haha, reminds me of the $350.00 it cost me for the pneumatic dent removal tool I purchased to remove dents from 12ga. shotgun barrels! In all the years I've had that tool, I've only had to use it twice! Now if a fella ever walks in with a 16ga. barrel, well, I reck'n there goes another $350.00 ( lol )... Anyway, I appreciate this video more than you can imagine and will most likely share it on the groups FB page... You got a new subscriber now! I loved the video and like the style in which you made it!
Hey guys, how about a beginners video on learning basic checkering. Maybe make it a multipart series on principles, tools, design criteria and application. I know. There’s an art to it but, we need to know where to start. Got an old junk stock?
My dad (Clems gun shop) always said. "The first few jobs you do for the tool" and if you break the tool, Now your gonna do 10 free jobs. Say you need a reemer, cost you $100.00 job pays $90.00 And you might not use that tool again for years...
I understand with every trade of the person, he/she is going to charge a huffy price for the job. Although, I don’t mind paying the full price but it grinds my gears when they do a sh*tty job and STILL charge full price. For example, I have 2 guns with scratches and still had to wait for parts because he lost 1 pin and 1 detent.
Problem is when you take the rifle to the gun smith and he says okay ya I’ll get that done for you in say 2 weeks then that 2 weeks turns into 4 weeks 2 months then 3 months then you get the rifle back after all that time and it looks like complete shit
This video could have been easily called, "Just do it yourself". I myself along with other local people just do our own work. There been occasions that people have had rifles at the gunsmith for weeks. Only to have me source the part for them on the spot. Then show them how to replace it for free. I'm not going to price gouge someone I know for a 10-15 minute job. I rather tell them what tools/parts they need, then show them how to be self sufficient. That's how personal loyalty is built, helping each other while trading practical skills and knowledge.
@@KSmithwick1989 I have no problem with doing the job yourself. Most folks can handle the jobs that a shop would have to charge more for than the gfun is worth. I just wish people knew their limitations. I recently had a guy bring in a rifle that he drilled and taped himself, mounted bases and a scope on and wanted to return the scope because it didn't have enough adjustment to get on target. His front base was visually offset to the left and the scope was pointing way low and left. He had drilled his hokes so far off top dead center that you could see it. I plugged the holes and redrilled it for him and we got it sighted in. There are some jobs best left to the people with the tools and knowledge to do them right the first time.
@@paulmazan4909 Yeah, it's definitely a under-rated hobby/skill. I've handled a Marlin that had that same problem. It's been a few years, although I do remember certain details. They mounted a long-relief scope that was canted to clear the rear sight. Honestly if they just removed the rear sight, they could have centered the scope. Usually with some of the older surplus guns. I just show people rail adaptor modifications they can buy and install themselves. The Mosin-Nagant is a easy one. It requires punching out the rear sight pin. Then using the pin hole/sight base as a mounting point, no drilling needed.
,@@KSmithwick1989 I always thought the Mosin was a gun built for a peasant army full of guys that had only worked on tractors before. Everything is big and over-engineered to be bulletproof. Not a bad idea in a battle rifle. It ain't pretty or elegant but it works and can take a beating in its own way, that kind of makes it beautiful.
@@paulmazan4909 It's a good platform to built up basic smiting experience on. There is also a lot of after market components at low to fairly reasonable prices. The iron sights can be swapped by a rail. Mag-conversion can be done by fitting a polymer stock. And match-triggers can be assembled from kit or bought complete (slightly more expensive). The only thing that I would warn people, is that the receiver can crack if you de-pin the barrel. That really due to having them stored (with the same barrel) 80 years.
Guys it's like this, What is the gun worth to you. I have some family heirloom guns that I couldn't sell for a couple hundred dollars but if it meant making the gun shoot safe I would drop $500 bucks on it.
Most people that work in the trades buys tools to perform their work. The equipment that cuts grass is more expensive and is much higher maintanence than what is used for gunsmithing. If you invest $5000 in tools you should have been able to pay that investment off in your first 2-3 months of work and then . There is no reinvestment for every .22lr that walks in the door.
What is it that u r trying to say??? Mowing grass takes anything near the expertise that gunsmithing takes??? I think not. Anyone can mow grass..very few can do quality gunsmithing!🤨
Really. . . a good metal lathe is $10.000 a used Bridgeport milling machine is $6-$10.000 just a Baldor buffer is $ 600. So to set up a decent quality shop will end up costing at least $30.000 & could easily go up to $100.000 there's no money to be made gunsmithing it'll take you 10 years just to begin to make a profit
It’s a buisness. Just tell the customer what it will cost for what he wants. If he wants to pay for the job, then do it. I’ve paid more than a gun was worth to have it fixed.
No matter how you try to justify it. Gun smiths charge far to much and take way to much time. It is an accepted culture in the gun world and it needs to go. It really does. Of course you are bias and want to justify the money you charge because you are in fact a gun smith, but you look at many other services in other industries and gun smithing is just ridiculous. So what if you have to go out and buy a specific tool to do a specific job. Thats your problem as the business owner. No other industry operates that way. Mechanics dont say well I can do it but I have to charge you for the 200 dollar special tool that I have to purchase to do it. What the fuck? Its not like you are buying the tool to do a job then handing that tool and the completed firearm over to the customer. You will keep that tool and continue to make money off it. I worked in a machine shop for over 10 years and even their services didnt cost as much as many gun smiths charge. These business practices among gun smiths have been accepted by the consumer and that why you are able to get away with it. People need to stop accepting it and force the smithing industry into a more competitive market place where they are forced to evolve just like every other industry. It is why I personally do my best to never use a gun smith. I have on occasion had to call on the services of one but for the most part I dont. Oh you want me to pay you 1000's of dollars and wait for weeks if not months before you get my firearm back to me. No. These practices arent accepted in any other industry. It should be no different for gun smiths. Hell Ive had vehicles painted, turbo charge, and tuned in less time it takes for gun smiths to do the work. It really is ridiculous.
Not all gunsmiths operate like that...you exaggerate. I will agree that there are a lot of lazy, half-assed ‘smith’s out there, but not all of us are like that.
You clearly don't understand or try to understand the costs and level of skill to be a REAL gunsmith. If u don't like the prices u r given (and they r what they r) then don't have it done or do it yourself and chance permanently screwing it up.😁
I'm sure u have never ran ur own business r understand anything about what u r saying. I am a certified gunsmith for 30+ years and I also own and run a Body Shop. Both businesses are similar in many ways. It's really about paying for knowledge and skill. Small operations give the best quality in these fields. That means you have to wait till they can get it done. Oh...buy the way a paint job on a car starts at $10,000 and goes up from there. Gun work is by far cheaper.
Just found your channel. The truth you just laid out got you a subscriber. Thank you!
Thanks for the sub and watching.
When I worked for a master gunsmith back in the late 1980s, he always used to say, "you're paying me for what I know, not for what I do." I've always remembered that.
Exactly! Thanks for watching.
But ultimately, they can know everything . But if they don't actually do anything, you're not paying them, so you pay for them to do what they know how to do.
@@Randy-1967 You’re paying him to do what YOU don’t know how to do because if you did, you would have done it. Ergo, you’re still paying for his knowledge.
I’m in school to be a gunsmith and I can say I had no idea just how expensive it was to be competitive until I started buying tools. I agree most everyday people don’t consider how much things actually cost and even though it costs so much it doesn’t deter me from wanting to be a gunsmith. I have a passion for helping people and want to be the next John Moses Browning or Eugene Stoner. What advice could you give an aspiring gunsmith who wants to be the best he can be but, he’s on a smaller budget?
Thanks for watching. The best advice I can give you is to never stop learning. There is no substitute for experience nor accounting for talent. Take every opportunity you get to practice. I bought a lot of old cheap guns to learn on. One inexpensive .22 or single shot shotgun can provide many many lessons. Refinish the stock, polish and reblue the metal. Draw file rusty spots and learn how to blend them in so they are unnoticeable when reblued. Checker the stock, install a recoil pad, cut and recrown the barrel. In the end, the hundred bucks or so you spent on the cheap gun will have given you several opportunities to learn and practice before you ever touch a customer's gun. Remember when it comes to someone else's property, if you break it or ruin it, you buy it. Lastly, the hardest part of the process is evaluating your ability. Some of us are artists, we can turn out exquisite works of ate sculpted in wood and metal. Most are good workmen. We can fix your gun and make it look good but we lack that artistic ability. Others simply do not have the talent, patience or touch it takes to turn out quality work. anyone that honestly evaluates his work and discovers he simply doesn't have the talent or temperament will do him or her self a favor by leaving Gunsmithing to others and finding something they are good at. Talent-wise I fall someplace in the middle. I have seen great gun work. Flawless bluing that shines like a mirror without a single flaw. Carving and checkering that take your breath away and actions that have been worked to butter smoothness and I know my work is not up to that level. I have all the knowledge and experience but I am not an artist. I'm a journeyman gunsmith that can fix most anything, make it look good and give the customer a good functional and safe job but, I can't give him flawless perfection. So, I stay away from really high dollar custom guns. I have plenty of work installing scopes and recoil pads and fixing broken guns but I turn away the really expensive jobs that are beyond my talent. In the meantime, I have several inexpensive guns in the back waiting for the slow winter months when I'll have the time to repair, reefurbish and practice my checkering and carving skills. Never stop learning.
I love your channel you remind me of my uncle Dave a Navy Vet from the late fifties. He always sang happy trails . He was an avid hunter,fisherman, shooting enthusiast. I’m also a Navy vet and also loved the same things as well as the rest of my family!
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the info. It’s nice to have some solid logic out there floating around. Thank you. Got another subscriber.
Thanks for watching. Glad you got some good information out of this.
Most people have no idea of the cost of tooling, or experience to do the job right.Thank you for explaining the cost of a job, done right, by a professional.God Bless you!
Your gunsmithing series is very helpful. Thank you!
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching.
You have a gift of teaching very glad I found
Glad you found some useful information in this. Thanks for watching.
So the Brownells catalog has rough prices on what to charge for different services? Good to know maybe I should pick one of those up. Thanks. Really enjoy your channel.
Neither of those “good gents” appear to have missed any significant amount of lunches. In other words I think they don’t have any issues obtaining the prices they are requesting! Brilliant! Cheers mates!!
Thanks for watching.
That’s amazing. The same rule applies for any collectible. “What’s it worth to the specific buyer”. The difference with cars, cameras, vintage electronics etc. is, it fetches more if it’s cleaned up and works. I guess guns are the anomaly because the history is tied to the value. Battle scratches.
Find a smith that have changed the sights on a XDM and you'll know if if they have done it by the price they give you.
LOL... I loved this video! Not sure how I found it but so glad I did! Just the other day, true story, I was logged in to a Gunsmithing Facebook page that I belong to. A fella was asking for some advice on how to install $4.00 worth of parts on a Winchester Model 1300 shotgun. He did not want to take it to a gunsmith cause the guy "might" charge him more than the gun was worth to install them! Long story short, he did get some helpful information from us but not after we kind of 'educated' him on the realities concerning our trade! You mention the cost of tools and how many jobs you've got to do to recoup that cast, haha, reminds me of the $350.00 it cost me for the pneumatic dent removal tool I purchased to remove dents from 12ga. shotgun barrels! In all the years I've had that tool, I've only had to use it twice! Now if a fella ever walks in with a 16ga. barrel, well, I reck'n there goes another $350.00 ( lol )... Anyway, I appreciate this video more than you can imagine and will most likely share it on the groups FB page... You got a new subscriber now! I loved the video and like the style in which you made it!
Thanks for watching.
Thank you so much. I'm glad you found it valuable to you.
Hey guys, how about a beginners video on learning basic checkering. Maybe make it a multipart series on principles, tools, design criteria and application. I know. There’s an art to it but, we need to know where to start. Got an old junk stock?
My dad (Clems gun shop) always said. "The first few jobs you do for the tool" and if you break the tool, Now your gonna do 10 free jobs.
Say you need a reemer, cost you $100.00 job pays $90.00
And you might not use that tool again for years...
New Subscriber. Love the channel. Hope to be joining the profession soon.
This is why you buy what you need while working your full-time job, then start gunsmithing after you have already bought what you need .
That guy on the left that interrupts and talks over you irritates me. That is downright rude!
I understand with every trade of the person, he/she is going to charge a huffy price for the job. Although, I don’t mind paying the full price but it grinds my gears when they do a sh*tty job and STILL charge full price. For example, I have 2 guns with scratches and still had to wait for parts because he lost 1 pin and 1 detent.
Find a better Smith.
I agree $100 all day long
Thannks for watching
Problem is when you take the rifle to the gun smith and he says okay ya I’ll get that done for you in say 2 weeks then that 2 weeks turns into 4 weeks 2 months then 3 months then you get the rifle back after all that time and it looks like complete shit
This video could have been easily called, "Just do it yourself". I myself along with other local people just do our own work. There been occasions that people have had rifles at the gunsmith for weeks. Only to have me source the part for them on the spot. Then show them how to replace it for free.
I'm not going to price gouge someone I know for a 10-15 minute job. I rather tell them what tools/parts they need, then show them how to be self sufficient. That's how personal loyalty is built, helping each other while trading practical skills and knowledge.
@@KSmithwick1989 I have no problem with doing the job yourself. Most folks can handle the jobs that a shop would have to charge more for than the gfun is worth. I just wish people knew their limitations. I recently had a guy bring in a rifle that he drilled and taped himself, mounted bases and a scope on and wanted to return the scope because it didn't have enough adjustment to get on target. His front base was visually offset to the left and the scope was pointing way low and left. He had drilled his hokes so far off top dead center that you could see it. I plugged the holes and redrilled it for him and we got it sighted in. There are some jobs best left to the people with the tools and knowledge to do them right the first time.
@@paulmazan4909 Yeah, it's definitely a under-rated hobby/skill. I've handled a Marlin that had that same problem. It's been a few years, although I do remember certain details. They mounted a long-relief scope that was canted to clear the rear sight. Honestly if they just removed the rear sight, they could have centered the scope.
Usually with some of the older surplus guns. I just show people rail adaptor modifications they can buy and install themselves. The Mosin-Nagant is a easy one. It requires punching out the rear sight pin. Then using the pin hole/sight base as a mounting point, no drilling needed.
,@@KSmithwick1989 I always thought the Mosin was a gun built for a peasant army full of guys that had only worked on tractors before. Everything is big and over-engineered to be bulletproof. Not a bad idea in a battle rifle. It ain't pretty or elegant but it works and can take a beating in its own way, that kind of makes it beautiful.
@@paulmazan4909 It's a good platform to built up basic smiting experience on. There is also a lot of after market components at low to fairly reasonable prices. The iron sights can be swapped by a rail. Mag-conversion can be done by fitting a polymer stock. And match-triggers can be assembled from kit or bought complete (slightly more expensive).
The only thing that I would warn people, is that the receiver can crack if you de-pin the barrel. That really due to having them stored (with the same barrel) 80 years.
Guys it's like this, What is the gun worth to you. I have some family heirloom guns that I couldn't sell for a couple hundred dollars but if it meant making the gun shoot safe I would drop $500 bucks on it.
We did touch on that./ You can't put a price on family guns that have a history.
the people who think its lost value by restoring, are the "pawn star folk" haha
collectors can be fickle.
I agree...but it's true depending on what the gun is. Refinishing it can lower it's value.
Most people that work in the trades buys tools to perform their work. The equipment that cuts grass is more expensive and is much higher maintanence than what is used for gunsmithing. If you invest $5000 in tools you should have been able to pay that investment off in your first 2-3 months of work and then . There is no reinvestment for every .22lr that walks in the door.
What is it that u r trying to say??? Mowing grass takes anything near the expertise that gunsmithing takes??? I think not. Anyone can mow grass..very few can do quality gunsmithing!🤨
Really. . . a good metal lathe is $10.000 a used Bridgeport milling machine is $6-$10.000 just a Baldor buffer is $ 600. So to set up a decent quality shop will end up costing at least $30.000 & could easily go up to $100.000 there's no money to be made gunsmithing it'll take you 10 years just to begin to make a profit
It’s a buisness. Just tell the customer what it will cost for what he wants. If he wants to pay for the job, then do it. I’ve paid more than a gun was worth to have it fixed.
No matter how you try to justify it. Gun smiths charge far to much and take way to much time. It is an accepted culture in the gun world and it needs to go. It really does. Of course you are bias and want to justify the money you charge because you are in fact a gun smith, but you look at many other services in other industries and gun smithing is just ridiculous. So what if you have to go out and buy a specific tool to do a specific job. Thats your problem as the business owner. No other industry operates that way. Mechanics dont say well I can do it but I have to charge you for the 200 dollar special tool that I have to purchase to do it. What the fuck? Its not like you are buying the tool to do a job then handing that tool and the completed firearm over to the customer. You will keep that tool and continue to make money off it. I worked in a machine shop for over 10 years and even their services didnt cost as much as many gun smiths charge. These business practices among gun smiths have been accepted by the consumer and that why you are able to get away with it. People need to stop accepting it and force the smithing industry into a more competitive market place where they are forced to evolve just like every other industry. It is why I personally do my best to never use a gun smith. I have on occasion had to call on the services of one but for the most part I dont. Oh you want me to pay you 1000's of dollars and wait for weeks if not months before you get my firearm back to me. No. These practices arent accepted in any other industry. It should be no different for gun smiths. Hell Ive had vehicles painted, turbo charge, and tuned in less time it takes for gun smiths to do the work. It really is ridiculous.
Not all gunsmiths operate like that...you exaggerate. I will agree that there are a lot of lazy, half-assed ‘smith’s out there, but not all of us are like that.
You clearly don't understand or try to understand the costs and level of skill to be a REAL gunsmith. If u don't like the prices u r given (and they r what they r) then don't have it done or do it yourself and chance permanently screwing it up.😁
I'm sure u have never ran ur own business r understand anything about what u r saying. I am a certified gunsmith for 30+ years and I also own and run a Body Shop. Both businesses are similar in many ways. It's really about paying for knowledge and skill. Small operations give the best quality in these fields. That means you have to wait till they can get it done. Oh...buy the way a paint job on a car starts at $10,000 and goes up from there. Gun work is by far cheaper.
@David Chatterton …ok, Mr. Delusional.