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I had a campaign where the party ran into a dragon den where the dragon was freshly killed. They couldn't find it how the dragon died, other than "something big ate chunks out of it". So they took the loot and ran back to the capital where they thought nothing of how easy it was to get. They spent their gold on gear, drinks, bodily pleasures, ect. But the next morning, they woke up to thousands of golden shelled bugs eating everyone in town that they had given gold to.
How did the gold come to be bug-ridden? Was the dragon cursed by a victim or rival? Did it happen upon the "horde" and incubate the creatures? Cursed treasure is an excellent concept, but very under-used beyond the realm of vague, unfounded rumour.
@B T I'm going to invent a phobia now that specifically affects dragons. How sad it must be to be a creature whose entire existence revolves around treasure, only to become incapacitated by fear of it...it'd make for an interesting Dragon NPC. It'd be a recreation of that one 'Spongebob Squarepants' episode where Mr. Krabs was torn between his love of money, and love for Ms. Puff, but instead it's the dragon's need for gold, and fear of it. Make it copper for good measure, so people think he's screwing with them.
The 1st edition DMG had rules for training to increase in level that cost lots of gold. I think this was designed as a way for players to spend their treasure
I remember the advice in the '80's rule books that about 80% of XP should be from treasure, but also that monsters didn't have to be killed for their XP but simply defeated (so put to sleep or caught in a trap would count). I do not, however, like the idea of giving XP for spending, especially not forcing them to spend it in a specific way -- players should be able to decide what their characters do their money and not all characters will have the same interests or personality.
One big reason I forgot to mention is that XP for Gold provides a cool risk/reward dynamic. How much gold can I carry before I'm too encumbered to escape? Should I try for one more haul or should I get to safety now?
Also, the classic way of handling treasure: Give the players something worth a lot of gold, but that is hard to move or maneuver back to town. Players are less likely to give up on extracting the marble statue when that is their next level just waiting to happen.
It discourages it because you aren't rewarded for it. Obviously if you want to still kill things you can, but you're risking your PC's life for no reward.
Great video. Don't forget that by having XP for gold, encounter balance becomes less predictable. As a DM, we can have vastly different encounters without as much regard for the parties ability to kill everything. As long as there are means for passing the encounter, it will work. But with monsters as XP, any encounter they can't win becomes a waste of time and a frustration because they have to fight without the XP reward. Also, XP for gold means that you can incentivize your players in a more various world. By having your quests offer gold as a reward, the players will find them more interesting. I've run multiple campaigns with monster XP and they players just gloss over the quest givers instructions and never even negotiate, because they don't care. And they rarely buy anything because they expect to get everything as loot.
I really like the idea of carousing for xp, and as a game mechanic it works really well. I am concerned for my next campaign, when I introduce this, it might have some players who want to know what is it about wasting money that makes them stronger. I've heard descriptions of things like it makes the gods happy to see you having celebrations over your own heroism, and you are gaining their blessings, or it instills more self-confidence. These are contrived, but I like them. Just hope some of my more scrutinizing players just accept it. I also wonder how to sell the idea that a lawful priest would regularly get up to so much mischief. I could allow offerings and charity as substitutes for carousing, but part of me wants to keep things simple and uniform.
I use a more advanced system. A player gets XP for, completing sections of the quest, for monster kills, and for gold acquired (1gp=1xp). But the gold must be spent in working to advance the characters skills through training. In higher levels the gold will be spent in advancing the characters skills, by training others of their class. This is done by the building of schools, temples, guilds, or other institutions related to the character class. Thus the gold must be used to help the adventurer gain or hone skills.
I prefer xp for gold over xp for monsters, for the reasons you suggest (well at least to avoid the incentive to kill everything, and investing their rewards in the game world). But overall I prefer incremental/session advances - where you randomly gain (or choose) an advancement from your next level at the end of each session (or second session, or whatever frequency you prefer). The players can then take the game in any direction they like, without having to chase underlying xp incentives. They can chase treasure, kill monsters, wander about exploring, get embroiled in political intrigue, lead great forces into war, etc; whatever they find most interesting.
TDW_Tudy 1 this sounds like a creative nightmare for a DM. You are much better then I if you can handle on the fly plot changes, mini quests and unprepared off the beaten path adventures. Tip of the hat to ya
I like the idea. I, however, use silver as the base currency instead of gold. With gold being worth 10 silver (1 silver = a night at the inn + a hot dinner) This way copper pieces are also valuable. 1 copper grants entry to certain clubs or taverns. So a copper piece is worth about $5 USD. Making silver worth $50 USD and gold about $500 USD.
Thats great. But remember, where there is wealth, there is organized crime, competitors who might not play by the book and every other creature that could be driven towards some part/person involved in your value-chain. TL;DR: Mo’ money, mo’ problems
I like the fact you can make merchants/crafters and stll be viable in the world (ex: witch+craft crafting class plus an adventurer class and they can both level up simultaneously with this xp systems)
And the usual rules are that if the gold was not acquired through adventuring, it won't count as XP. The size of a treasure haul is supposed to be show about how much skill you had to use to get it.
You could also add a twist and only grant xp for gold spent on things befitting your class (good works for clerics, old musty tomes for wizards, wine and wenches for fighters...).
Try "Of Downtime and Demesnes". It has multiple options for spending gold to acquire skills and xp. If a character is close to gaining a level, it's great for those extra needed points. It also includes story hooks, annoying npcs, and another good set of mechanics for building strongholds and hiring retainers/experts.
I have been moving back to XP for gold, but I weight the XP for gold based on use. Gold that his cinematically lost or used gets the most, while gold used to buy magic items or other directly useful powerups gets little or no XP. This lends itself to players not feeling that bad or actually being happy when their gold is lost the way it should be - whores, booze, helping others, thieves, etc. It rewards the players for having their characters act in a manner more similar to high heroic and cinematic fiction. In addition if they buy a magic item and later lose it or it is broken, then they get the at least some of the XP back then as well, usually about half of what they would have gotten if they had not spent the gold on the item. So I fall into the last group you mentioned, the 'carousing system'. However I came up with that without knowing about it. Glad to have a name to put to it, thanks :)
I like the idea of driving players to communicate and think their way through situations with NPCs (even monsters), rather than brandish their blades or hurl their spells at them. I can appreciate you use the term treasure every now and then, in place of gold, as experience--treasure to a player really depends on what they need in their current campaign. For instance, in the campaign I am running right now, society has been severely crippled, and there are actually very few "normal" races in the world, and the normal ones that are alive are just now slowly waking up. Currency is dead in the normal since. It is more about survival, cohabitation, and small community. Any mundane item can mean the difference between life or death, like a bag of salt that can be used for curing and preserving meat or herbs that could be used to make medicine or oil.
Thank you for writing this comment. I’m currently mulling over XP for treasure in Mausritter, and this description fits the setting very well. Whether players choose to spend their gold selfishly or selflessly, one way or another, the resources they gather and bring back to a settlement will generally be of value to mouse society.
Here's Jeff Rients' article on gaining XP through carousing. His blog is foundational to the OSR and makes for great reading! jrients.blogspot.com/2008/12/party-like-its-999.html For lots more, go here and search for "carousing": osrsearch.blogspot.com/
OSR games certainly have a love of randomness! One of the best parts of the game in my opinion is when the dice throw a complication in your path that you never heard of.
I've been using carousing for my DCC campaign, Jungle Crawl Classics, precisely for that third reason you mentioned! Leiber is a HUGE influence in this DCC tomb of annihilation campaign. Great video! Gold for XP isnt for every campaign but I hope this video convinces some GMs to try it out
I just discovered this system and right now I'm wondering: why not tackilng the issue of the massive amount of gold by fixing another broken aspect of D&D, the colossaly deflated value of gold? Make 1xp=1 copper or silver coin, then adjust the price for basic necessities down to avoid players starving in the streets.
When you mentioned having your PCs spend money on a lavish party it got me thinking about how to do just that. Have them obtain gold at a 1:1 ratio to their experience requirements and when they want to level up they have to hold a lavish social event that is themed around whatever classes your group plays. For example, a bard would have to overcome some social skill challenges when they invite local and/or foreign nobles or people of power. A wizard PC might call on other nearby scholars to hold a massive practice and study session and be able to learn about rare creatures in the local mega dungeon, or learn new spells beyond what the standard level-up permits. A fighter might create a combat tournament or go out hunting with the ranger for a legendary beast that roams the plains or forests nearby to their home base, etc. Players who participate in their challenges will get to level up once it's over regardless of the outcome, but if they also succeed in their challenges at the party can gain magic items, hirelings, new merchants, etc.
Thanks for the video! Now I see benefits of the XP4Gold system and am looking forward to trying it out. Initially it felt limiting, as it requires characters to have their motivations to be expressed through the need of funds. But it is probably true for many class-based systems - characters are meant to want to get more power to level up and progress (kinda like Super Mario where the coin is the original guide and motivation) and XP is a currency regardless of the way it is given out. But this is just the assumption behind this type of RPGs. And this could be one reason that more story oriented games are often skill-based (so it seems to me at least). Really enjoying your channel, makes me think quite a bit.
I'm considering xp for silver pieces. That way the balance is same xp gains (by replacing instances of gp with sp, ep with gp, pp with ep, ect) and decreasing the monetary gains.
I've been thinking of using xp for gold in my next campaign, but instead of carousing you have to spend your gold for training. That way you can spend your gold for anything, gear, parties, investment, etc. But if you want to level up you go down to your respective class trainer and drop some money.
I never played XP for gold until I started running AS&SH. It changed my life! Carousing puts characters into great situations. Also, if you run anything older than 3e (maybe even 2e) you’d have to completely rewrite the XP tables or ignore them since the experience requirements for each level are astronomical.
Depends on how fast you want to level. In older games it could take many years of real time play to get a PC up to a really high level (and most of them would die long before getting there), whereas in 5e I feel like people want to get there much quicker.
Perhaps you have a video that's more directly related to this, but it may be instructive to enumerate some of the goals that go into the design of an RGP. These include (1) trying to simulate how things actually would be in the game world; (2) trying to encourage particular styles of play; (3) trying to avoid tedious mechanics that get in the way. An RPG's mechanics can be understood as a compromise between these and other goals (such as flexibility, fairness, etc). Regarding XP, it is difficult to realistically simulate how people develop skills in real life - many modern RPGs tie XP to overcoming challenges in game, but this tends to be largely at the whim of the referee (who decides what counts as a challenge), and the realism is still questionable (e.g. I've heard people point out that no RPG tries to simulate how we often gain experience by failing). If a game designer wants XP to be objective and measurable, then it needs to be measured through some kind of proxy. Gold is a very simple proxy, which sacrifices realism and flexibility in favour of other goals, but can be partially justified on the assumption that characters develop skills through purchased tuition. In short, it's a compromise, and the fact that that compromise rather than a different compromise was chosen provides insight into the history of the game.
XP for gold is definitely the way to go. However, I give small amounts of XP for average monsters/animals; very little, like in AD&D. For big/epic monsters, I give a *lot* of XP. XP for gold is an integral part of the experience of what makes a tabletop RPG a *roleplaying* game to begin with. Your bit about the players stocking up on gold and spending it on keeps, towers, castles etc., being a big part of what *invests* them into the campaign is insightful, thank you. The world being deadly is also key. Another key element is a genuinely impartial judge.
I only run OD&D, D&D BECMI, D&D RC, AD&D 1E and a 2E Clone. All of these give XP for gold / treasure as a primary source of XP. I don’t give full value (GP value) for magic items found while adventuring (just 10% and distributed to all members of party since all participated in acquiring it).
My systems: 1: Combat XP is lowered. To like 10-15% of the normal. 2: Skill check successes give a bit of XP to the skill user. This makes people find alternative routes, since they can get the same XP without fighting. If they can't agree and keep competing just to get skill checks, I make it shared for that player group. The goal is to make them work together to amass chains of skill successes. 3: "Buy" XP. When someone loots, they can exchange the value on the spot, receiving it when they sell the item. The price is between 1 silver and 1 gold for each point of XP, depending on how wealthy I make the campaign. Items are based on sell value (if they later haggle I give the rest in gold), if it is some relic it must be decided as a whole (think of donating it to a temple or museum). 4: Flat out XP rewards. Perhaps a divine enlightenment, or military training, arcane secrets taught. I use this only as a last resort to balance the setting. This creates a three-way lever for me to balance the campaign. If they get too much XP, they will struggle with supplies, if they get the gold, they will rarely level up, have to keep doing lower level jobs (which is fine, their decision). By adjusting the amount of treasure I give, I can keep both their level progression and wealth in check. By giving skill checks XP, I can target certain players to catch up with the rest by giving skill challenges that affect them specifically. And the pure XP reward is the "oh shit" button.
This is a great video! Thanks Watching it I was thinking of a system where the players choose what kind of things they want to get XP for spending money on. Maybe the group chooses one 'low-cost' one 'mid-cost' and one 'high-cost' thing and that way they're choosing the kinds of things that they want to put emphasis on doing. My other thought was that there could be character specific things which spending gold on rewards XP for that character but not other characters, encouraging RP in the way that Blades in the Darks advancement system does. The idea is still a 1to1 gold ratio but it gives players more control. Example: - low-cost: Buying rounds of drinks at the tavern - mid-cost: Hiring mercenaries to fight in the war with the orcs - high cost: Building temples to the sun god Character based ones: - Warrior: Buying shiny new weapons for display in their battle room - Cleric: Making offerings to the temple of his choice - Rogue: Starting a thieves guild to get kids like her out of the begging game and into high stakes heists... Has anyone ever heard of any systems like this? If not, what do you think?
I've never been in a game for the last 10 years that used experience points at all. Leveling is based off milestones and when it makes sense to the story. I can understand the nostalgia aspect of OSR, but modern D&D is so flexible that you can customize it how you want.
Most people playing OSR games aren't doing so out of nostalgia, we're playing OSR games because we like them. That being said, milestone leveling is completely legitimate if that's what your table prefers. Even in some OSR games, DMs will put XP rewards on things other than gold.
Reminds me how Dark Souls works. Your souls are used as both a currency and for leveling. An interesting idea. I am mulling over starting a new campaign an thinking about establishing house rules that I have learned about during my down time an this might be one I'll have to consider
Something we always did in the early days which I am simply amazed to never hear elsewhere, because it really seems like such a No Duh? thing is that the GP you turn into XP is tuition. In between adventures it was assumed that your character made ones way to some kind of training center and you spent that gold to learn the tips and secrets which made you better at what you did. Gamewise it worked out well because you didn't have to find something to blow it all on or have to deal with glut of over-powered magical things or have to hide it or invest it somewhere or carry it on yourself for that matter. Was my group the only one to do this? Please reply to this comment if you did it too.
I remember doing something like this in AD&D. Can't remember if it was in a rulebook or not. We certainly had to take a few weeks of training to level up, and pretty sure coin changed hands too.
I always preferred using a system where they were awarded XP for overcoming obstacles whether that be through combat negotiations or stealth and guile all were effective methods of gaining experience points
Good Video, Subbed. I have not given XP for gold since ADnD. I think now maybe 1/2xp per GP "invested" over 5000gp. @ 1/10oz per that is about 32 lbs of gold. Invested means the player bought into the character's development, The fighter bought a new sword, or armor. The mage paid due's to access an arcane library or lab. The rogue paid off some local big wig. etc. It should fit the concept of the character. Another good gold sink I have always used is "resurrection" insurance 10,000gp or so to poof back to a friendly temple if you get walloped. Giving folks the opinion to buy into tavern or purchase / earn real estate works well to drain gold. One word about real estate... Upkeep. Another thing is if you are running a campaign where enchantment costs XP the prices should be higher to include this factor. If I am a high level wizard, how much XP am I willing to lose for your + 5 Armor of Pleasant Smells? Also note that just because I failed my craft check does not mean I am eating the cost of materials, yo. TPK at the leatherworkers anyone?
I like the idea of giving the chance of players getting XP in creative ways. But I have a question: doesn't it force all the characters to be necessarily greedy pulp anti-heroes? Nothing bad in that, but if, in "modern" games for example, the player likes to play as a paladin, druid, monk or even a cleric for that matter, how can you hook the character in with gold alone?
Great question. Personally (and this is completely off the top of my head), I would justify it in ways such as this: For Paladins, Monks, and Clerics-maybe they're donating the gold back to their church/monastery/temple, or they're using it to spread their religion or teach new initiates. Or hell, even to better the local community or something. For Druids, that one's a bit tougher. Maybe they hire some local warriors to guard the forests of the area or something? To set up an animal rehabilitation center? A national park? A wildlife preserve? Ultimately, consider it this way: money is power and influence. Anyone can do great (or evil) things through power and influence. It really just comes down to *what* that specific characters wants to have influence over. EDIT: Forgot a word.
I like gold xp as well because most quests will give you gold, even if it's just rescuing a cat peasant ver. you get 1gp but like, it was probably an easy mission anyways noble ver. you get a bunch of gp but like, someone who stole a noble's cat likely had connections or power so it was likely difficult even if you did just save a cat
If you’re worried about giving too much gold I’d up the value of it so that 1 gp = 10 or even 100 xp. That way they divide it all up evenly and can still level it up
In the system I am working on, I am going to be giving out XP for "treasure". Treasures are not individual coins, but significant items or hoards of coins. And yes this is meant to drive the characters towards taking risks for these treasure hoards.
It works just as well because all you need to do is assign a gold value to the objects. So that one gem is worth 500gp, and it's only a gem so it's much easier to carry. But then again, that statue is worth an easy 30k if we can get it back to the temple that worships this God but then how how do we move a statue through this monster infested dungeon and keep it intact (and there's your whole adventure). :D
Typically I award less xp in a group that focuses on slaughtering everything that moves unless they're guarding a city from like a coven of vampires or a hoard of werewolves / orcs. You're hired to protect a town and the more successful you are at killing them en masse, the more rewards you get. That's fine, that works. I award *more* xp to players for being clever about what they do, or using some more exotic method of putting down their foes. In short, I try to do in 5e what the XP for Gold system all but required one to do. Even I as a player have seen monsters and encounters as little more than loot bags and have prepared characters accordingly. This system makes sense, I'll definitely give it a try.
Would the "gp = xp" idea work for your Knave rule set? I'm VERY new to OSR (haven't run any yet but have Knave in my Drivethrurpg cart) and was curious. I've run 5e with milestone advancement and most players end up just wanting the "next dungeon" instead of any world investment.
It feels like my 5e game is quickly careening towards becoming a B/X clone. In addition to the GP for XP (wasted) model I've added, I've honestly stopped using the monster manual and instead use the quick monster stat blocks in the back of the 5e DMG for my (5e) game & giving them unique features & traits and letting them loose into my world with their own unique presence. One of these days I swear I'm just going to bite the bullet and just buy a cleaned up B/X clone and run that for the rest of my life.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess is the gold standard for cleaned up B/X clones, and the rules are free...www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115059/LotFP-Rules--Magic-Free-Version?affiliate_id=379088 Or if you want to stick close the original rules, and just want the presentation improved: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/220726/B-X-Essentials-Core-Rules?affiliate_id=379088
2 of your 3 reasons are that gold is valuable and more important than killing the bad guy. But doing checkpoint based leveling has the same effect. Players aren't necessarily incentivised to kill everything and gold has inherent value because they need to buy things with it. I like the idea of only getting xp when the players waste their gold, but then there is a penalty to buying weapons and gear. I use checkpoint because it is waaay easier to keep track of, doesn't incentivise character to kill everything that moves, and just keeps the game going. If the players want to throw lavish parties, they can do that. The dm doesn't need to force the players to have fun. And after a few parties, they'll get bored of it and it'll just be another thing they have to do to get the xp. And the whole point of this game is to keep the fun going, not bog it down with useless rules
Another good reason is henchmen xp. It's weird having hirelings and retainers level up just by being there or surviving. In gold as xp system there is a nice clear choice - do I level up my guys or do I keep it mostly for myself?
OK, I have a question, see I find my self wanting both worlds, see I actually love the monster and villainess kind of adventures I get out of 5e, but I also feel it would be amazing getting this kind of world engagement in my games, and find that OSR style works for that. How would you advise doing both Combat XP, for the most part as it is, and incorporating Gold XP? My first thought is to just do that 1=1 that exists, but I'm not sure how that will effect the game. Ideas and advice, I just don't know.
I use absorpable magic dragon shards that are the natural currency of the world as both money oooor xp. Not both. Absorb it or use it to make an item or pay someone who can fuse the shards to the magic items. Gold bloat can be a problem for sure though. But easily fixed. I Use player debt creation for services. And gold sinks like services and limit on towns total gold available. Also, I'll limit the amount of real gold they find and use art and gems.
The carousing system is interesting, but if you use it to the exclusion of other forms of XP what you end up doing is limiting the possibility space of the personalities of your player characters. What if a player doesn't want to play a party animal? What if the player wants to play a shrewd mercenary out to make it rich? What if the character wants to get rich, and _then_ live in the lap of luxury?
I like the system of only gaining XP from gold (anything of value) found or awarded. So XP is gained for recovering an NPC's horde or merchant caravan, who only awards 50 gp for the work! But the characters earn 10,000 XP to divide among them. The thief then attempts to steel 1,000 gp and a couple items since the patron was so stingy. / How to level-up: ODD: find the lost treasure of the dwarf lords. MDD: kill everything!
This might not work always because there are possible missions that will never reward gold, this could be because the currency in the place they went is different from gold, say, souls for example, maybe the quest giver doesn't have gold to give, maybe a player is playing a character that dislikes gold altogether like perhaps a barbarian or a druid, maybe that character likes giving away gold for some weird reason, maybe the plot has the players face a big and long challenge and only be rewarded at the end forcing them to stay at low level through most of the campaign only to level up five levels as soon as the campaign ends, the possibilities are endless. This is why I prefer the "action reward", the PCs do something and it gives them exp, from something big like saving the town from a threat to something small like being able to open a jar of pickles that was reaaally stuck.
I'm glad someone is finally bringing this to light! Long live OSR! :) Also, I'm not sure if you've discussed this, but I find it interesting that more modern incarnations of D&D have done away with morale. Why do you think that is? I think that's one of the best parts of the game.
That's true. I guess one factor is that an enemy that runs away presents a conundrum of how to award XP for that encounter, in a system where only killing monsters gains XP. If you reward full XP, what if that monster is encountered again for example
I've thought about doing this, but I've been concerned about players turning into bandits themselves or trying to rob banks etc. Seems like they might lose the hero aspect of stories and become something closer to the Sword and Sorcery adventurer, not a bad thing I suppose.
I don't enforce any particular code of conduct on my players. They're there to have fun, and they get to choose what's fun for them in the campaign. Heroes have morals...but villains have work ethic: dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2010/01/sandboxes-and-roguish-work-ethic.html
I'm developing a new game system where in the marketplace you can buy and Sell xp for gold or plat. So if you want you can buy that enchanted sword of fire for xp
Nice topic! Personally, I don't like the idea of xp for gold. Doesn't that just simply shift the risk/reward focus from the creature/encounter, to the treasure? In other words, the deadlier the creature, the more gold players should get? To me this just continues the "kill everything in sight, so we can get xp" mindset. Instead of xp for blood, it's xp for gold. I get that it's the way the mechanics work in most OSR games, but I think there are more creative and heroic ways to go about it.
I think XP for GP makes the most sense in highly lethal games. Obviously, when the party has enough resources to just kill what they come across, this XP system doesn't change anything. Now, what if fights are 50-50? If there's an equal chance of you killing the enemy and them killing you, coming up with other ways to get the treasure becomes a must.
seigeengine I see what you're saying, but that's my point- instead of killing monsters, players are now killing monsters specifically for their treasure. What's the difference? "Let's kill everything in sight for their xp and loot!" vs "Let's kill everything in sight for their loot!" In my opinion, characters should be adventuring to complete quests (as you said); but the quests should be a mixture of motivations. Not just pilfering loot or defeating foes. To me, those are just a few of the potential rewards. Why limit the GM's (and Players) creative vision?
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seigeengine his point isn't dumb, your logic is flawed, like your manners.
@@d_Brian67 dude, it's just another option. Different players will want different things. Maybe your quest hooks aren't getting the job done. Despite PC's motivations and personalities one thing usually remains true: players like it when they level up. If treasure obtained through risk is always worth xp, it takes a lot of burden off of the DM to motivate players.
New viewer, but there is one issue with xp for gold that I have found, at least in my own circles; players building business that then start turning profits. Like the fighter who becomes a carpenter, and then opens a carpenter shop in a few cities that he just manages. What happens then?
@@QuestingBeast Hmm, then this system probably isn't for my group despite how interesting it sounds. Alot of our adventures surround owning and building businesses. Adventuring is actually suicidal as there is almost nothing to gain from it. Sure you might get that magic sword of legend, but you had to pull it from the liche's body it was stuck in and defeat the lich.
@@tommydude6735 Well, in more trad D&D games there's a lot to gain from adventuring. Piles of money and XP, mostly. But it sounds like your game would need a different way to motivate players.
@@QuestingBeast Oh that's the thing. We started playing torch bearer, a grimdark little setting that presumes adventurers have the same reputation as highwaymen and thieves.... and being the players they are decided to ... argue the point in character. So they went to one dungeon, where the elf character died.... and used every bit of gold there to start running a legitimate business. I was particularly impressed with how they handled the local lord and getting him as a patron of their business. So this is a feature not a bug. They are already motivated, just not by adventure. (I was particularly impressed with how one player basically bribed the lord with a tithe from the dungeon which happened to be a burial chamber from a rival baron's family.)
I kind of think that his carpenter business becomes so successful that 1) the local thieves guild muscles in on his business, 2) his family becomes the subject of kidnapping and a ransom demand, 3) druid circles realize that his lumber has come from an ancient grove and curse him, 4) the local lord become involved in a war and the business becomes conscripted to build siege engines on-site, 5) ...if all that fails to motivate the character, then all the cities that he owns businesses in are attacked by dragons and anything made of wood is burnt ... life as an adventurer wasn't meant to be easy! If the player really wants to be in a campaign running shops, it could be an unusual story (not my cup of tea, but hey! Different strokes for different folks!)
Something else to consider - gold won from looting dungeons should far exceed what PCs could make from setting up a tavern or selling spells. Otherwise rational players might give up adventuring (too dangerous!) and take on a low risk occupation to earn gold.
Just had a character in our campaign get a wish spell attached to them through wild magic, wound up conjuring a chest with 4M gold. Only she can access the chest. We’re L3, what level should she be then?
She should ascend to godhood. Her greed corrupting her, she now becomes the bbeg and thus the player’s new character must take down their old character.
Typically, you get 1 XP with every GP you bring back to civilization. Some people house rule this so you have to spend the GP to get the XP, that way PCs will start buying hirelings, strongholds, etc.
When I used to play second edition story xp was for everybody but then there was like specific XP like you xp for monsters that was a fighter thing and then wizard that get XP on the level of spells cast, spell research, crafting magic items and of thieves got xp for gold 100% they get their thief skills you know they got to get all to do things like these things Gathering intelligence you know that kind of thing and of course the cleric probably similar as a spellcaster but with all the stuff do we having to do with Deity then there was bored as XP what you could do what you know good you know story Xp and in addition I always thought that it was good to do the XP for gold but you have to split it evenly between your gold the gold between your gear and XP and that would keep everything balanced cuz you know if you get good gear then you get overconfident if your low level character you tend to get squished a little bit faster or the other way around you know you have a high-level character but the gear wasn't proportionate to the high-level character that's why they say the 50-50 split between the gear and the XP on the gold piece on the gold
Instead of experience I would just do level 1 would level up after 1 play session from 2 to 3 2 play sessions 3 to 4 play 3 sessions exc exc. So to get to level 20 that's 210 play sessions, so we capped at 10 play sessions per level still many years of keeping character going.
I'm playing in a campaign that does gold for exp but all we can do with the gold is put it in a room in our base and it dissolves into exp. I'm still not entirely sure what the thought behind that is because the GM allways hands out way more treasure than any of us could even carry and we can't come back to get more of that loot because the megadungeon we're in keeps changing every time someone enters and we have no control over when/how we get back to the base so the risk/reward stuff doesn't really apply.
That's what a megadungeon is: an entire campaign that is one dungeon. (Like Undermountain, castle Greyhawk etc) We are playing Pathfinder so yes we are playing a bord game . Every game that doesn't have rules concerning roleplaying is just a boardgame that gets roleplaying thrown on top of it. And no we can't buy any magic items because at the moment there is no magic in the world. (though we can change that during the course of the campaign) The only thing magical in the world atm is the dungeon since everythign that was not mundane (aka gods, magic and everything that is not human) got locked away in there to stave off the end of the world.
Gods, I wish this worked for my group. Three year long campaign, exp only through curousing/Research/Training. Have to pay for it with gold. right? And for three years, they NEVER went after the treasure! they'll see a trap and go the other way, not explore. Each dungeon was a race to the other side, no side-passages, no dilly-dallying. Then they complain that they don't gain enough Exp or treasure!
The three ideas presented in the video are pretty good, but I do not believe they are the cause for the "XP for gold" mechanic in AD&D/OSRIC; rather, they are an effect. While it may not seem as glamorous of a reason (it never is), "XP for gold" was really about leveling. Have you looked at the XP given for slaying a monster in the original Monster Handbooks? Now divide that by how many players you have at the table. Advancement would not have been just slow, but OH so painfully slow. "XP for gold" smooths out the leveling timeline as players advance.
I think placing that much importance on gold might make a group a little too treasure happy. I want my players to focus on the story, not the treasure reward. Also, earning XP (in my games at least) isn't based on killing enemies. It's based on "defeating" enemies. You don't have to kill, or even fight an enemy to defeat it. If you're in a situation where you choose to use diplomacy, that's treated as an encounter, and as such you would gain XP for "defeating" that NPC using your diplomacy or bluff skills. Also, though it's not usually emphasized in D&D, I know a lot of DM's reward XP for role play. For me personally, if my group puts forth effort to role play a scenario out, I reward XP (even if they're not very good at RP, as long as they make a good effort, I give the reward). I get the points your making, and I think they're valid, but just don't think it's necessary, or advantageous over current advancement systems.
Monsters are one thing. Of course monsters are almost always a fight. But when I run home brew, a lot of encounters aren't monsters, they're people. My players aren't always dungeon crawling and murdering everything they find. A lot of the time, the struggle is political, or diplomatic in nature. If a GM wants a game that focuses less on combat and more on player-NPC interaction, or using their heads rather than their swords, there are plenty of ways to do that. I really just don't see how motivating the players with gold makes the game any less of a slaughter-fest or dungeon crawl when most of the time the gold is going to be in a dungeon, and they have to get through hoards monsters to get it anyway. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad or wrong way of doing it. Really that's up to the players and GM and how they enjoy playing. I just don't really see the advantage of that system over the current standard.
That's a totally fine way of doing things as you described (even though I personally dislike the XP for roleplay appraoch, but that's unimportant now). The thing is, old-school games assume a dungeon crawl heavy gameplay (of which there are plenty of in 3.X/PF/5E, too), but de-emphasise the sort of hack & slash approach that modern games tend to have (when it comes to dungeons, not necessarily in general!). XP for GP makes total sense in that context. If one's game doesn't feature a lot of crawling, or the campaign is premised not on roguish PCs, XP for GP might not be the best option. I would probably still try and come up with an approach that feeds into the core gameplay loop (damsels-in-distress saved, conspiracies unraveled, coups stopped, etc.), but that's not really because challenge-based XP is bad; it just doesn't resonate with me personally.
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. If the players' only motivation for advancement is gathering wealth, what's to stop them from becoming a marauding band of thugs that just invade towns and rob them blind? It only takes a few levels before players can pretty much overpower any run-of-the-mill NPC. It just seems like a really poor way to motivate your players and keep them going in the direction you want. What if doing the right thing doesn't necessarily net you a gold or item reward? What if the reward is knowing you did the right thing? EXP should be awarded to players for being the paragons they're supposed to be, not for looting everything in site.
It obviously all depends on your premise, as I said above. If you wanna play honest-to-god heroes, you obviously don't want XP for GP. If you want ne'er-do-wells in the pulp fantasy tradition, you do benefit from it greatly. Just note that XP for GP turns no more PCs into amoral criminals looting everything as XP for combat turns into murder machines slaying every villager and guardsman they come across.
Awesome video. I have been investigating the idea of xp for gold as the reward structure for a West Marches game I want to run using Castle and Crusades. I agree, and hope to get the results you spoke about in the video. The acquiring of wealth will hopefully motivate the players to grow in levels as well as motivate the characters to invest in the world. for example a character with some wealth might hire an alchemist for the hub town to sell potions. This will hopefully also lead to more friendly competition between all the groups of players in the game. Each trying to add their mark to the world from exploring and investing, not just killing monsters in the wild they come across. Again as you said, maybe the players will befriend some monsters in the wild, helping give an emphasis to the need for players that like to play high charisma characters.
Instead of having them "waste" their gold for XP, why not have them seek out a master and hire them for special training, at the cost of 1 gold per XP? Mechanically it works out to be the same thing, but narratively, it makes more sense.
I'm not sure why PLAYERS find it confusing, it's the DMs job to hand out XP (and the players shouldn't know what is worth what or they would game the system).
For those of us who are old schoolers, we ignored xp for gold. We had xp for goals, not gold. You achieve your goals, you got xp. Defeating a monster wasn't about killing the monster, but interacting with the monster and coming out alive, but only if the monster was an adversary. This is why I love Arcanum. The xp system is about interactions with the world. Making traps, deactivating traps, converting to your faith, nonmagically convincing someone to do something for you, MAKING MAGICAL ITEMS!!!!
Monsters usually don't carry gold around. At least mine don't. And even if they do, risking death over 10 gold in the orc chieftain's pocket is usually not a good trade off.
Wait, in the real world we don't wake up every morning with yesterdays broken spine and perforated liver completely healed? Better brush up on those driving skills, and omg, crossing the street too! Hot liquids... unsafe food and water... man we are so dead.
Ah but remember, you have to pay and take time for training. Calculate the cost to train for each level from one to twenty and build in the time it takes. And assuming you can find a higher level NPC to train you, it could take years. Easier and more fun to go adventuring.
Sounds like this would just turn the characters into burglars, pick pocekts and business owners. And you would heavily encourage the "steal everything that isn't bolted down, then steal the bolts." Mind you, I use milestone lvl up.
It's a nice video, but probably not good enough. A lot of people playing 5E _do_ want to play heroes and scout boys instead of swindling never-do-wells us OSR folks do. XP for GP makes no sense if you want to be the hero saving villagers, and that needs to be acknowledged (a good point would've been when you brought up how the reward system influences behaviour).
XP for gold only makes sense if you want to encourage out of the box thinking and player driven sessions. I said you might want to try it if you want to encourage that line of thinking, not that it's perfect for everyone.
I said what I said because it seemed like a video you meant for a larger audience like the top X settings video, but when it comes to mechanics, I think being more open about unintended effects and acknowledging others' playstyle is very important. Anyhow, I didn't want to sound too harsh, because I love your channel.
YnasMidgardNaule But is it heroic to ride in and use feats and at-will powers and healing surges and tons of HP to save villagers? And then be awarded XP for killing the bad guys? OR Is it more heroic to be playing in a low-HP old-school game and to be riding along and see villagers in peril... there is nothing in it for you (which is more realistic) and your chance of death is high. Plus, no reward for killing the bad guys (no XP, or very little). It would be foolhardy to intervene... and genuinely heroic. At most you may receive a minor title from the local Lord, like “Hero of Spielberg” or something, and respected in the region.
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I had a campaign where the party ran into a dragon den where the dragon was freshly killed.
They couldn't find it how the dragon died, other than "something big ate chunks out of it".
So they took the loot and ran back to the capital where they thought nothing of how easy it was to get.
They spent their gold on gear, drinks, bodily pleasures, ect.
But the next morning, they woke up to thousands of golden shelled bugs eating everyone in town that they had given gold to.
Just a story that your talk of gold reminded me of
How did the gold come to be bug-ridden? Was the dragon cursed by a victim or rival? Did it happen upon the "horde" and incubate the creatures? Cursed treasure is an excellent concept, but very under-used beyond the realm of vague, unfounded rumour.
Niiiiice.
@B T I'm going to invent a phobia now that specifically affects dragons. How sad it must be to be a creature whose entire existence revolves around treasure, only to become incapacitated by fear of it...it'd make for an interesting Dragon NPC. It'd be a recreation of that one 'Spongebob Squarepants' episode where Mr. Krabs was torn between his love of money, and love for Ms. Puff, but instead it's the dragon's need for gold, and fear of it. Make it copper for good measure, so people think he's screwing with them.
"something big"
The 1st edition DMG had rules for training to increase in level that cost lots of gold. I think this was designed as a way for players to spend their treasure
I remember the advice in the '80's rule books that about 80% of XP should be from treasure, but also that monsters didn't have to be killed for their XP but simply defeated (so put to sleep or caught in a trap would count). I do not, however, like the idea of giving XP for spending, especially not forcing them to spend it in a specific way -- players should be able to decide what their characters do their money and not all characters will have the same interests or personality.
Agree 💯
One big reason I forgot to mention is that XP for Gold provides a cool risk/reward dynamic. How much gold can I carry before I'm too encumbered to escape? Should I try for one more haul or should I get to safety now?
Also, the classic way of handling treasure: Give the players something worth a lot of gold, but that is hard to move or maneuver back to town. Players are less likely to give up on extracting the marble statue when that is their next level just waiting to happen.
Well it's certainly geared towards dungeoncrawling, but definitely not hack-and-slash. XP for gold discourages killing everything.
It discourages it because you aren't rewarded for it. Obviously if you want to still kill things you can, but you're risking your PC's life for no reward.
Yep, that's exactly the kind of strategies that low-HP games encourage.
Dude, I love your enthusiasm, but I have to point out that dragons can literally eat anything to survive, including the rock of their own cave.
Great video. Don't forget that by having XP for gold, encounter balance becomes less predictable. As a DM, we can have vastly different encounters without as much regard for the parties ability to kill everything. As long as there are means for passing the encounter, it will work. But with monsters as XP, any encounter they can't win becomes a waste of time and a frustration because they have to fight without the XP reward. Also, XP for gold means that you can incentivize your players in a more various world. By having your quests offer gold as a reward, the players will find them more interesting. I've run multiple campaigns with monster XP and they players just gloss over the quest givers instructions and never even negotiate, because they don't care. And they rarely buy anything because they expect to get everything as loot.
I really like the idea of carousing for xp, and as a game mechanic it works really well. I am concerned for my next campaign, when I introduce this, it might have some players who want to know what is it about wasting money that makes them stronger. I've heard descriptions of things like it makes the gods happy to see you having celebrations over your own heroism, and you are gaining their blessings, or it instills more self-confidence. These are contrived, but I like them. Just hope some of my more scrutinizing players just accept it.
I also wonder how to sell the idea that a lawful priest would regularly get up to so much mischief. I could allow offerings and charity as substitutes for carousing, but part of me wants to keep things simple and uniform.
I use a more advanced system. A player gets XP for, completing sections of the quest, for monster kills, and for gold acquired (1gp=1xp). But the gold must be spent in working to advance the characters skills through training. In higher levels the gold will be spent in advancing the characters skills, by training others of their class. This is done by the building of schools, temples, guilds, or other institutions related to the character class. Thus the gold must be used to help the adventurer gain or hone skills.
I prefer xp for gold over xp for monsters, for the reasons you suggest (well at least to avoid the incentive to kill everything, and investing their rewards in the game world). But overall I prefer incremental/session advances - where you randomly gain (or choose) an advancement from your next level at the end of each session (or second session, or whatever frequency you prefer). The players can then take the game in any direction they like, without having to chase underlying xp incentives. They can chase treasure, kill monsters, wander about exploring, get embroiled in political intrigue, lead great forces into war, etc; whatever they find most interesting.
TDW_Tudy 1 this sounds like a creative nightmare for a DM. You are much better then I if you can handle on the fly plot changes, mini quests and unprepared off the beaten path adventures. Tip of the hat to ya
I like the idea. I, however, use silver as the base currency instead of gold. With gold being worth 10 silver (1 silver = a night at the inn + a hot dinner) This way copper pieces are also valuable. 1 copper grants entry to certain clubs or taverns. So a copper piece is worth about $5 USD. Making silver worth $50 USD and gold about $500 USD.
But what if instead of delving into dungeons, they come up with a brilliant business idea, and invest wisely? :D
Thats great. But remember, where there is wealth, there is organized crime, competitors who might not play by the book and every other creature that could be driven towards some part/person involved in your value-chain. TL;DR: Mo’ money, mo’ problems
I like the fact you can make merchants/crafters and stll be viable in the world (ex: witch+craft crafting class plus an adventurer class and they can both level up simultaneously with this xp systems)
Dragons crave large hords of gold.
Just have two PCs hand gold back and forth to keep getting XP.
Stock markets can crash, and businesses can topple
Spending the gold to get exp sounds pretty good. I can imagine players investing in shops or property. That would be cool. Another great video.
And the usual rules are that if the gold was not acquired through adventuring, it won't count as XP. The size of a treasure haul is supposed to be show about how much skill you had to use to get it.
You could also add a twist and only grant xp for gold spent on things befitting your class (good works for clerics, old musty tomes for wizards, wine and wenches for fighters...).
Try "Of Downtime and Demesnes". It has multiple options for spending gold to acquire skills and xp. If a character is close to gaining a level, it's great for those extra needed points. It also includes story hooks, annoying npcs, and another good set of mechanics for building strongholds and hiring retainers/experts.
I have been moving back to XP for gold, but I weight the XP for gold based on use. Gold that his cinematically lost or used gets the most, while gold used to buy magic items or other directly useful powerups gets little or no XP.
This lends itself to players not feeling that bad or actually being happy when their gold is lost the way it should be - whores, booze, helping others, thieves, etc. It rewards the players for having their characters act in a manner more similar to high heroic and cinematic fiction.
In addition if they buy a magic item and later lose it or it is broken, then they get the at least some of the XP back then as well, usually about half of what they would have gotten if they had not spent the gold on the item.
So I fall into the last group you mentioned, the 'carousing system'. However I came up with that without knowing about it. Glad to have a name to put to it, thanks :)
I like the idea of driving players to communicate and think their way through situations with NPCs (even monsters), rather than brandish their blades or hurl their spells at them. I can appreciate you use the term treasure every now and then, in place of gold, as experience--treasure to a player really depends on what they need in their current campaign.
For instance, in the campaign I am running right now, society has been severely crippled, and there are actually very few "normal" races in the world, and the normal ones that are alive are just now slowly waking up. Currency is dead in the normal since. It is more about survival, cohabitation, and small community. Any mundane item can mean the difference between life or death, like a bag of salt that can be used for curing and preserving meat or herbs that could be used to make medicine or oil.
Thank you for writing this comment. I’m currently mulling over XP for treasure in Mausritter, and this description fits the setting very well. Whether players choose to spend their gold selfishly or selflessly, one way or another, the resources they gather and bring back to a settlement will generally be of value to mouse society.
Here's Jeff Rients' article on gaining XP through carousing. His blog is foundational to the OSR and makes for great reading! jrients.blogspot.com/2008/12/party-like-its-999.html
For lots more, go here and search for "carousing": osrsearch.blogspot.com/
OSR games certainly have a love of randomness! One of the best parts of the game in my opinion is when the dice throw a complication in your path that you never heard of.
I've been using carousing for my DCC campaign, Jungle Crawl Classics, precisely for that third reason you mentioned! Leiber is a HUGE influence in this DCC tomb of annihilation campaign. Great video! Gold for XP isnt for every campaign but I hope this video convinces some GMs to try it out
I just discovered this system and right now I'm wondering: why not tackilng the issue of the massive amount of gold by fixing another broken aspect of D&D, the colossaly deflated value of gold? Make 1xp=1 copper or silver coin, then adjust the price for basic necessities down to avoid players starving in the streets.
Really love the carousing variant! You’ve won me over on the mechanic. Can’t say I ever used it, but I would now.
When you mentioned having your PCs spend money on a lavish party it got me thinking about how to do just that. Have them obtain gold at a 1:1 ratio to their experience requirements and when they want to level up they have to hold a lavish social event that is themed around whatever classes your group plays. For example, a bard would have to overcome some social skill challenges when they invite local and/or foreign nobles or people of power. A wizard PC might call on other nearby scholars to hold a massive practice and study session and be able to learn about rare creatures in the local mega dungeon, or learn new spells beyond what the standard level-up permits. A fighter might create a combat tournament or go out hunting with the ranger for a legendary beast that roams the plains or forests nearby to their home base, etc.
Players who participate in their challenges will get to level up once it's over regardless of the outcome, but if they also succeed in their challenges at the party can gain magic items, hirelings, new merchants, etc.
Thanks for the video!
Now I see benefits of the XP4Gold system and am looking forward to trying it out.
Initially it felt limiting, as it requires characters to have their motivations to be expressed through the need of funds.
But it is probably true for many class-based systems - characters are meant to want to get more power to level up and progress (kinda like Super Mario where the coin is the original guide and motivation) and XP is a currency regardless of the way it is given out. But this is just the assumption behind this type of RPGs. And this could be one reason that more story oriented games are often skill-based (so it seems to me at least).
Really enjoying your channel, makes me think quite a bit.
The idea of getting the experience for spending or blowing the gold is very cool. I might try that with my next game.
Great video and perspective! Will incorporate this in my games
I'm considering xp for silver pieces. That way the balance is same xp gains (by replacing instances of gp with sp, ep with gp, pp with ep, ect) and decreasing the monetary gains.
I've been thinking of using xp for gold in my next campaign, but instead of carousing you have to spend your gold for training.
That way you can spend your gold for anything, gear, parties, investment, etc.
But if you want to level up you go down to your respective class trainer and drop some money.
I never played XP for gold until I started running AS&SH. It changed my life! Carousing puts characters into great situations. Also, if you run anything older than 3e (maybe even 2e) you’d have to completely rewrite the XP tables or ignore them since the experience requirements for each level are astronomical.
Depends on how fast you want to level. In older games it could take many years of real time play to get a PC up to a really high level (and most of them would die long before getting there), whereas in 5e I feel like people want to get there much quicker.
Perhaps you have a video that's more directly related to this, but it may be instructive to enumerate some of the goals that go into the design of an RGP. These include (1) trying to simulate how things actually would be in the game world; (2) trying to encourage particular styles of play; (3) trying to avoid tedious mechanics that get in the way. An RPG's mechanics can be understood as a compromise between these and other goals (such as flexibility, fairness, etc). Regarding XP, it is difficult to realistically simulate how people develop skills in real life - many modern RPGs tie XP to overcoming challenges in game, but this tends to be largely at the whim of the referee (who decides what counts as a challenge), and the realism is still questionable (e.g. I've heard people point out that no RPG tries to simulate how we often gain experience by failing). If a game designer wants XP to be objective and measurable, then it needs to be measured through some kind of proxy. Gold is a very simple proxy, which sacrifices realism and flexibility in favour of other goals, but can be partially justified on the assumption that characters develop skills through purchased tuition. In short, it's a compromise, and the fact that that compromise rather than a different compromise was chosen provides insight into the history of the game.
XP for gold is definitely the way to go.
However, I give small amounts of XP for average monsters/animals; very little, like in AD&D.
For big/epic monsters, I give a *lot* of XP.
XP for gold is an integral part of the experience of what makes a tabletop RPG a *roleplaying* game to begin with.
Your bit about the players stocking up on gold and spending it on keeps, towers, castles etc., being a big part of what *invests* them into the campaign is insightful, thank you.
The world being deadly is also key. Another key element is a genuinely impartial judge.
This is *Excellent!*
I never thought of that...
I only run OD&D, D&D BECMI, D&D RC, AD&D 1E and a 2E Clone. All of these give XP for gold / treasure as a primary source of XP.
I don’t give full value (GP value) for magic items found while adventuring (just 10% and distributed to all members of party since all participated in acquiring it).
"D&D OPTION: ORGIES, INC." by Jon Pickens in The Dragon Magazine issue 10 1977.
My systems:
1: Combat XP is lowered. To like 10-15% of the normal.
2: Skill check successes give a bit of XP to the skill user. This makes people find alternative routes, since they can get the same XP without fighting. If they can't agree and keep competing just to get skill checks, I make it shared for that player group. The goal is to make them work together to amass chains of skill successes.
3: "Buy" XP. When someone loots, they can exchange the value on the spot, receiving it when they sell the item. The price is between 1 silver and 1 gold for each point of XP, depending on how wealthy I make the campaign. Items are based on sell value (if they later haggle I give the rest in gold), if it is some relic it must be decided as a whole (think of donating it to a temple or museum).
4: Flat out XP rewards. Perhaps a divine enlightenment, or military training, arcane secrets taught. I use this only as a last resort to balance the setting.
This creates a three-way lever for me to balance the campaign. If they get too much XP, they will struggle with supplies, if they get the gold, they will rarely level up, have to keep doing lower level jobs (which is fine, their decision). By adjusting the amount of treasure I give, I can keep both their level progression and wealth in check. By giving skill checks XP, I can target certain players to catch up with the rest by giving skill challenges that affect them specifically. And the pure XP reward is the "oh shit" button.
This is a great video! Thanks
Watching it I was thinking of a system where the players choose what kind of things they want to get XP for spending money on. Maybe the group chooses one 'low-cost' one 'mid-cost' and one 'high-cost' thing and that way they're choosing the kinds of things that they want to put emphasis on doing. My other thought was that there could be character specific things which spending gold on rewards XP for that character but not other characters, encouraging RP in the way that Blades in the Darks advancement system does. The idea is still a 1to1 gold ratio but it gives players more control.
Example:
- low-cost: Buying rounds of drinks at the tavern
- mid-cost: Hiring mercenaries to fight in the war with the orcs
- high cost: Building temples to the sun god
Character based ones:
- Warrior: Buying shiny new weapons for display in their battle room
- Cleric: Making offerings to the temple of his choice
- Rogue: Starting a thieves guild to get kids like her out of the begging game and into high stakes heists...
Has anyone ever heard of any systems like this? If not, what do you think?
I absolutely love the carousing rule! Work hard; party hard! Hell yeah!
I've never been in a game for the last 10 years that used experience points at all. Leveling is based off milestones and when it makes sense to the story. I can understand the nostalgia aspect of OSR, but modern D&D is so flexible that you can customize it how you want.
Most people playing OSR games aren't doing so out of nostalgia, we're playing OSR games because we like them. That being said, milestone leveling is completely legitimate if that's what your table prefers. Even in some OSR games, DMs will put XP rewards on things other than gold.
Reminds me how Dark Souls works. Your souls are used as both a currency and for leveling. An interesting idea. I am mulling over starting a new campaign an thinking about establishing house rules that I have learned about during my down time an this might be one I'll have to consider
I have a ring 💍 and has stamped on it XP Y8 ??? What does it mean
I want to implement some of these ideas for my upcoming 5th edition campaign. I want a player driven game with a clear use for gold.
Something we always did in the early days which I am simply amazed to never hear elsewhere, because it really seems like such a No Duh? thing is that the GP you turn into XP is tuition. In between adventures it was assumed that your character made ones way to some kind of training center and you spent that gold to learn the tips and secrets which made you better at what you did. Gamewise it worked out well because you didn't have to find something to blow it all on or have to deal with glut of over-powered magical things or have to hide it or invest it somewhere or carry it on yourself for that matter.
Was my group the only one to do this?
Please reply to this comment if you did it too.
I've done it that way. It's a good method.
I remember doing something like this in AD&D. Can't remember if it was in a rulebook or not. We certainly had to take a few weeks of training to level up, and pretty sure coin changed hands too.
@@dsan05 As I recall, it was an optional rule in 2E.
@@FraggleH I'm certain it's in the 1E DMG somewhere... I doubt I would have come up with it myself at that tender age!
I always preferred using a system where they were awarded XP for overcoming obstacles whether that be through combat negotiations or stealth and guile all were effective methods of gaining experience points
Good Video, Subbed. I have not given XP for gold since ADnD. I think now maybe 1/2xp per GP "invested" over 5000gp. @ 1/10oz per that is about 32 lbs of gold. Invested means the player bought into the character's development, The fighter bought a new sword, or armor. The mage paid due's to access an arcane library or lab. The rogue paid off some local big wig. etc. It should fit the concept of the character. Another good gold sink I have always used is "resurrection" insurance 10,000gp or so to poof back to a friendly temple if you get walloped. Giving folks the opinion to buy into tavern or purchase / earn real estate works well to drain gold. One word about real estate... Upkeep. Another thing is if you are running a campaign where enchantment costs XP the prices should be higher to include this factor. If I am a high level wizard, how much XP am I willing to lose for your + 5 Armor of Pleasant Smells? Also note that just because I failed my craft check does not mean I am eating the cost of materials, yo. TPK at the leatherworkers anyone?
Earning XP for gold when spending it all sounds like an awesome idea! I’m doing it for sure in my campaign!
This system would be great for players that want to do heists. Get the gold, get the XP.
I like the idea of giving the chance of players getting XP in creative ways. But I have a question: doesn't it force all the characters to be necessarily greedy pulp anti-heroes? Nothing bad in that, but if, in "modern" games for example, the player likes to play as a paladin, druid, monk or even a cleric for that matter, how can you hook the character in with gold alone?
Great question. Personally (and this is completely off the top of my head), I would justify it in ways such as this:
For Paladins, Monks, and Clerics-maybe they're donating the gold back to their church/monastery/temple, or they're using it to spread their religion or teach new initiates. Or hell, even to better the local community or something.
For Druids, that one's a bit tougher. Maybe they hire some local warriors to guard the forests of the area or something? To set up an animal rehabilitation center? A national park? A wildlife preserve?
Ultimately, consider it this way: money is power and influence. Anyone can do great (or evil) things through power and influence. It really just comes down to *what* that specific characters wants to have influence over.
EDIT: Forgot a word.
Gold for XP also makes sense if players are spending gold on martial training or spell research between adventures.
very interesting.... just shot this to our DM
I like gold xp as well because most quests will give you gold, even if it's just rescuing a cat
peasant ver. you get 1gp but like, it was probably an easy mission anyways
noble ver. you get a bunch of gp but like, someone who stole a noble's cat likely had connections or power so it was likely difficult even if you did just save a cat
If you’re worried about giving too much gold I’d up the value of it so that 1 gp = 10 or even 100 xp. That way they divide it all up evenly and can still level it up
In the system I am working on, I am going to be giving out XP for "treasure". Treasures are not individual coins, but significant items or hoards of coins. And yes this is meant to drive the characters towards taking risks for these treasure hoards.
That sounds great.
Works in theory, but we shall see how it goes.
It works just as well because all you need to do is assign a gold value to the objects. So that one gem is worth 500gp, and it's only a gem so it's much easier to carry. But then again, that statue is worth an easy 30k if we can get it back to the temple that worships this God but then how how do we move a statue through this monster infested dungeon and keep it intact (and there's your whole adventure). :D
Conan Roleplaying Game: Adventures In An Age Undreamed Of has a good mechanism for wasting money/carousing.
How does it work in that game?
@@QuestingBeast if your're still curious let me know. I've got almost all the books for the Modiphius Conan 2d20 system but I'm at work.
Typically I award less xp in a group that focuses on slaughtering everything that moves unless they're guarding a city from like a coven of vampires or a hoard of werewolves / orcs. You're hired to protect a town and the more successful you are at killing them en masse, the more rewards you get. That's fine, that works. I award *more* xp to players for being clever about what they do, or using some more exotic method of putting down their foes. In short, I try to do in 5e what the XP for Gold system all but required one to do. Even I as a player have seen monsters and encounters as little more than loot bags and have prepared characters accordingly. This system makes sense, I'll definitely give it a try.
Would the "gp = xp" idea work for your Knave rule set? I'm VERY new to OSR (haven't run any yet but have Knave in my Drivethrurpg cart) and was curious. I've run 5e with milestone advancement and most players end up just wanting the "next dungeon" instead of any world investment.
Do you players have gold ray vision? How to they know where gold is?
Say your using gold for XP in 5th edition D&D, what kind of experience chart would you use?
We do milestones and do for gold. Found gold...milestones will level you up if you get 10 total milestones. (See milestone for exp)
It feels like my 5e game is quickly careening towards becoming a B/X clone.
In addition to the GP for XP (wasted) model I've added, I've honestly stopped using the monster manual and instead use the quick monster stat blocks in the back of the 5e DMG for my (5e) game & giving them unique features & traits and letting them loose into my world with their own unique presence.
One of these days I swear I'm just going to bite the bullet and just buy a cleaned up B/X clone and run that for the rest of my life.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess is the gold standard for cleaned up B/X clones, and the rules are free...www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115059/LotFP-Rules--Magic-Free-Version?affiliate_id=379088 Or if you want to stick close the original rules, and just want the presentation improved: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/220726/B-X-Essentials-Core-Rules?affiliate_id=379088
Awesome! I'm hitting that D/L button hard.
Great video. An interesting recap and analysis of something that is misunderstood about the early Editions.
2 of your 3 reasons are that gold is valuable and more important than killing the bad guy. But doing checkpoint based leveling has the same effect. Players aren't necessarily incentivised to kill everything and gold has inherent value because they need to buy things with it. I like the idea of only getting xp when the players waste their gold, but then there is a penalty to buying weapons and gear. I use checkpoint because it is waaay easier to keep track of, doesn't incentivise character to kill everything that moves, and just keeps the game going. If the players want to throw lavish parties, they can do that. The dm doesn't need to force the players to have fun. And after a few parties, they'll get bored of it and it'll just be another thing they have to do to get the xp. And the whole point of this game is to keep the fun going, not bog it down with useless rules
Another good reason is henchmen xp. It's weird having hirelings and retainers level up just by being there or surviving. In gold as xp system there is a nice clear choice - do I level up my guys or do I keep it mostly for myself?
OK, I have a question, see I find my self wanting both worlds, see I actually love the monster and villainess kind of adventures I get out of 5e, but I also feel it would be amazing getting this kind of world engagement in my games, and find that OSR style works for that. How would you advise doing both Combat XP, for the most part as it is, and incorporating Gold XP? My first thought is to just do that 1=1 that exists, but I'm not sure how that will effect the game. Ideas and advice, I just don't know.
I use absorpable magic dragon shards that are the natural currency of the world as both money oooor xp. Not both. Absorb it or use it to make an item or pay someone who can fuse the shards to the magic items.
Gold bloat can be a problem for sure though. But easily fixed. I Use player debt creation for services. And gold sinks like services and limit on towns total gold available. Also, I'll limit the amount of real gold they find and use art and gems.
The carousing system is interesting, but if you use it to the exclusion of other forms of XP what you end up doing is limiting the possibility space of the personalities of your player characters. What if a player doesn't want to play a party animal? What if the player wants to play a shrewd mercenary out to make it rich? What if the character wants to get rich, and _then_ live in the lap of luxury?
Has anyone tried this with 5e? Should the xp thresholds change?
I like the system of only gaining XP from gold (anything of value) found or awarded. So XP is gained for recovering an NPC's horde or merchant caravan, who only awards 50 gp for the work! But the characters earn 10,000 XP to divide among them. The thief then attempts to steel 1,000 gp and a couple items since the patron was so stingy. / How to level-up: ODD: find the lost treasure of the dwarf lords. MDD: kill everything!
I’m seeing this almost a year late. I will consider your thoughts and add where appropriate to my next campaign
What were the rules in xanathars?
This might not work always because there are possible missions that will never reward gold, this could be because the currency in the place they went is different from gold, say, souls for example, maybe the quest giver doesn't have gold to give, maybe a player is playing a character that dislikes gold altogether like perhaps a barbarian or a druid, maybe that character likes giving away gold for some weird reason, maybe the plot has the players face a big and long challenge and only be rewarded at the end forcing them to stay at low level through most of the campaign only to level up five levels as soon as the campaign ends, the possibilities are endless.
This is why I prefer the "action reward", the PCs do something and it gives them exp, from something big like saving the town from a threat to something small like being able to open a jar of pickles that was reaaally stuck.
I'm glad someone is finally bringing this to light! Long live OSR! :) Also, I'm not sure if you've discussed this, but I find it interesting that more modern incarnations of D&D have done away with morale. Why do you think that is? I think that's one of the best parts of the game.
That's true. I guess one factor is that an enemy that runs away presents a conundrum of how to award XP for that encounter, in a system where only killing monsters gains XP. If you reward full XP, what if that monster is encountered again for example
So, what if a character gets some valuable item but fails to correctly appraise it? Think of the Holy Grail as seen in The Last Crusade.
I've thought about doing this, but I've been concerned about players turning into bandits themselves or trying to rob banks etc. Seems like they might lose the hero aspect of stories and become something closer to the Sword and Sorcery adventurer, not a bad thing I suppose.
That's a good point, being hunted by a group of paladins would be pretty nasty!
I don't enforce any particular code of conduct on my players. They're there to have fun, and they get to choose what's fun for them in the campaign. Heroes have morals...but villains have work ethic: dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2010/01/sandboxes-and-roguish-work-ethic.html
That's a really interesting read, thanks!
I'm developing a new game system where in the marketplace you can buy and Sell xp for gold or plat. So if you want you can buy that enchanted sword of fire for xp
Should xp cost gold though? I’ve been asking myself if I want to charge my players to level up.
I really like that idea, but do they lose xp by spending it or does their xp stay the same?
Nice topic! Personally, I don't like the idea of xp for gold. Doesn't that just simply shift the risk/reward focus from the creature/encounter, to the treasure? In other words, the deadlier the creature, the more gold players should get? To me this just continues the "kill everything in sight, so we can get xp" mindset. Instead of xp for blood, it's xp for gold.
I get that it's the way the mechanics work in most OSR games, but I think there are more creative and heroic ways to go about it.
I think XP for GP makes the most sense in highly lethal games. Obviously, when the party has enough resources to just kill what they come across, this XP system doesn't change anything. Now, what if fights are 50-50? If there's an equal chance of you killing the enemy and them killing you, coming up with other ways to get the treasure becomes a must.
seigeengine
I see what you're saying, but that's my point- instead of killing monsters, players are now killing monsters specifically for their treasure. What's the difference? "Let's kill everything in sight for their xp and loot!" vs "Let's kill everything in sight for their loot!"
In my opinion, characters should be adventuring to complete quests (as you said); but the quests should be a mixture of motivations. Not just pilfering loot or defeating foes. To me, those are just a few of the potential rewards. Why limit the GM's (and Players) creative vision?
seigeengine his point isn't dumb, your logic is flawed, like your manners.
@@d_Brian67 dude, it's just another option. Different players will want different things. Maybe your quest hooks aren't getting the job done. Despite PC's motivations and personalities one thing usually remains true: players like it when they level up. If treasure obtained through risk is always worth xp, it takes a lot of burden off of the DM to motivate players.
New viewer, but there is one issue with xp for gold that I have found, at least in my own circles; players building business that then start turning profits. Like the fighter who becomes a carpenter, and then opens a carpenter shop in a few cities that he just manages. What happens then?
I only give out XP for gold that they risked their life to get. Getting money from your carpentry business isn't going to make you a better fighter.
@@QuestingBeast Hmm, then this system probably isn't for my group despite how interesting it sounds. Alot of our adventures surround owning and building businesses. Adventuring is actually suicidal as there is almost nothing to gain from it. Sure you might get that magic sword of legend, but you had to pull it from the liche's body it was stuck in and defeat the lich.
@@tommydude6735 Well, in more trad D&D games there's a lot to gain from adventuring. Piles of money and XP, mostly. But it sounds like your game would need a different way to motivate players.
@@QuestingBeast Oh that's the thing. We started playing torch bearer, a grimdark little setting that presumes adventurers have the same reputation as highwaymen and thieves.... and being the players they are decided to ... argue the point in character. So they went to one dungeon, where the elf character died.... and used every bit of gold there to start running a legitimate business. I was particularly impressed with how they handled the local lord and getting him as a patron of their business. So this is a feature not a bug. They are already motivated, just not by adventure. (I was particularly impressed with how one player basically bribed the lord with a tithe from the dungeon which happened to be a burial chamber from a rival baron's family.)
I kind of think that his carpenter business becomes so successful that 1) the local thieves guild muscles in on his business, 2) his family becomes the subject of kidnapping and a ransom demand, 3) druid circles realize that his lumber has come from an ancient grove and curse him, 4) the local lord become involved in a war and the business becomes conscripted to build siege engines on-site, 5) ...if all that fails to motivate the character, then all the cities that he owns businesses in are attacked by dragons and anything made of wood is burnt ... life as an adventurer wasn't meant to be easy! If the player really wants to be in a campaign running shops, it could be an unusual story (not my cup of tea, but hey! Different strokes for different folks!)
What's that t-shirt that you're wearing?
It's a Scrap Princess shirt: www.redbubble.com/people/scrapprincess/works/24997192-skeleton-warrior?p=classic-tee
Something else to consider - gold won from looting dungeons should far exceed what PCs could make from setting up a tavern or selling spells. Otherwise rational players might give up adventuring (too dangerous!) and take on a low risk occupation to earn gold.
I just don't give them XP for money that wasn't found while adventuring.
Just had a character in our campaign get a wish spell attached to them through wild magic, wound up conjuring a chest with 4M gold. Only she can access the chest.
We’re L3, what level should she be then?
She should ascend to godhood. Her greed corrupting her, she now becomes the bbeg and thus the player’s new character must take down their old character.
The campaign only goes to L6 tho o.o
is the gold traded in for XP, or do you get XP with the Gold piece?
Typically, you get 1 XP with every GP you bring back to civilization. Some people house rule this so you have to spend the GP to get the XP, that way PCs will start buying hirelings, strongholds, etc.
Good ideas. Thank you for your input.
When I used to play second edition story xp was for everybody but then there was like specific XP like you xp for monsters that was a fighter thing and then wizard that get XP on the level of spells cast, spell research, crafting magic items and of thieves got xp for gold 100% they get their thief skills you know they got to get all to do things like these things Gathering intelligence you know that kind of thing and of course the cleric probably similar as a spellcaster but with all the stuff do we having to do with Deity then there was bored as XP what you could do what you know good you know story Xp and in addition I always thought that it was good to do the XP for gold but you have to split it evenly between your gold the gold between your gear and XP and that would keep everything balanced cuz you know if you get good gear then you get overconfident if your low level character you tend to get squished a little bit faster or the other way around you know you have a high-level character but the gear wasn't proportionate to the high-level character that's why they say the 50-50 split between the gear and the XP on the gold piece on the gold
If the treasure was a magic sword, do they not get exp?
Instead of experience I would just do level 1 would level up after 1 play session from 2 to 3 2 play sessions 3 to 4 play 3 sessions exc exc. So to get to level 20 that's 210 play sessions, so we capped at 10 play sessions per level still many years of keeping character going.
I'm sold. My adventurer will become a banker instead. Best way to steal and accumulate gold.
There's little risk of death for bankers, don't expect to level much.
I'm playing in a campaign that does gold for exp but all we can do with the gold is put it in a room in our base and it dissolves into exp.
I'm still not entirely sure what the thought behind that is because the GM allways hands out way more treasure than any of us could even carry and we can't come back to get more of that loot because the megadungeon we're in keeps changing every time someone enters and we have no control over when/how we get back to the base so the risk/reward stuff doesn't really apply.
That's what a megadungeon is: an entire campaign that is one dungeon. (Like Undermountain, castle Greyhawk etc)
We are playing Pathfinder so yes we are playing a bord game . Every game that doesn't have rules concerning roleplaying is just a boardgame that gets roleplaying thrown on top of it.
And no we can't buy any magic items because at the moment there is no magic in the world. (though we can change that during the course of the campaign) The only thing magical in the world atm is the dungeon since everythign that was not mundane (aka gods, magic and everything that is not human) got locked away in there to stave off the end of the world.
Gods, I wish this worked for my group. Three year long campaign, exp only through curousing/Research/Training. Have to pay for it with gold. right? And for three years, they NEVER went after the treasure! they'll see a trap and go the other way, not explore. Each dungeon was a race to the other side, no side-passages, no dilly-dallying. Then they complain that they don't gain enough Exp or treasure!
The three ideas presented in the video are pretty good, but I do not believe they are the cause for the "XP for gold" mechanic in AD&D/OSRIC; rather, they are an effect. While it may not seem as glamorous of a reason (it never is), "XP for gold" was really about leveling. Have you looked at the XP given for slaying a monster in the original Monster Handbooks? Now divide that by how many players you have at the table. Advancement would not have been just slow, but OH so painfully slow. "XP for gold" smooths out the leveling timeline as players advance.
I think placing that much importance on gold might make a group a little too treasure happy. I want my players to focus on the story, not the treasure reward. Also, earning XP (in my games at least) isn't based on killing enemies. It's based on "defeating" enemies. You don't have to kill, or even fight an enemy to defeat it. If you're in a situation where you choose to use diplomacy, that's treated as an encounter, and as such you would gain XP for "defeating" that NPC using your diplomacy or bluff skills. Also, though it's not usually emphasized in D&D, I know a lot of DM's reward XP for role play. For me personally, if my group puts forth effort to role play a scenario out, I reward XP (even if they're not very good at RP, as long as they make a good effort, I give the reward).
I get the points your making, and I think they're valid, but just don't think it's necessary, or advantageous over current advancement systems.
In your home game, what's your ratio of non-violent to violent instances of defeating monsters?
Monsters are one thing. Of course monsters are almost always a fight. But when I run home brew, a lot of encounters aren't monsters, they're people. My players aren't always dungeon crawling and murdering everything they find. A lot of the time, the struggle is political, or diplomatic in nature. If a GM wants a game that focuses less on combat and more on player-NPC interaction, or using their heads rather than their swords, there are plenty of ways to do that. I really just don't see how motivating the players with gold makes the game any less of a slaughter-fest or dungeon crawl when most of the time the gold is going to be in a dungeon, and they have to get through hoards monsters to get it anyway.
I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad or wrong way of doing it. Really that's up to the players and GM and how they enjoy playing. I just don't really see the advantage of that system over the current standard.
That's a totally fine way of doing things as you described (even though I personally dislike the XP for roleplay appraoch, but that's unimportant now). The thing is, old-school games assume a dungeon crawl heavy gameplay (of which there are plenty of in 3.X/PF/5E, too), but de-emphasise the sort of hack & slash approach that modern games tend to have (when it comes to dungeons, not necessarily in general!). XP for GP makes total sense in that context.
If one's game doesn't feature a lot of crawling, or the campaign is premised not on roguish PCs, XP for GP might not be the best option. I would probably still try and come up with an approach that feeds into the core gameplay loop (damsels-in-distress saved, conspiracies unraveled, coups stopped, etc.), but that's not really because challenge-based XP is bad; it just doesn't resonate with me personally.
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. If the players' only motivation for advancement is gathering wealth, what's to stop them from becoming a marauding band of thugs that just invade towns and rob them blind? It only takes a few levels before players can pretty much overpower any run-of-the-mill NPC. It just seems like a really poor way to motivate your players and keep them going in the direction you want. What if doing the right thing doesn't necessarily net you a gold or item reward? What if the reward is knowing you did the right thing? EXP should be awarded to players for being the paragons they're supposed to be, not for looting everything in site.
It obviously all depends on your premise, as I said above. If you wanna play honest-to-god heroes, you obviously don't want XP for GP. If you want ne'er-do-wells in the pulp fantasy tradition, you do benefit from it greatly.
Just note that XP for GP turns no more PCs into amoral criminals looting everything as XP for combat turns into murder machines slaying every villager and guardsman they come across.
Awesome video. I have been investigating the idea of xp for gold as the reward structure for a West Marches game I want to run using Castle and Crusades. I agree, and hope to get the results you spoke about in the video. The acquiring of wealth will hopefully motivate the players to grow in levels as well as motivate the characters to invest in the world. for example a character with some wealth might hire an alchemist for the hub town to sell potions. This will hopefully also lead to more friendly competition between all the groups of players in the game. Each trying to add their mark to the world from exploring and investing, not just killing monsters in the wild they come across. Again as you said, maybe the players will befriend some monsters in the wild, helping give an emphasis to the need for players that like to play high charisma characters.
Instead of having them "waste" their gold for XP, why not have them seek out a master and hire them for special training, at the cost of 1 gold per XP? Mechanically it works out to be the same thing, but narratively, it makes more sense.
Yes, that's a great option.
I'm not sure why PLAYERS find it confusing, it's the DMs job to hand out XP (and the players shouldn't know what is worth what or they would game the system).
I like my players to game the system, personally.
For those of us who are old schoolers, we ignored xp for gold. We had xp for goals, not gold. You achieve your goals, you got xp. Defeating a monster wasn't about killing the monster, but interacting with the monster and coming out alive, but only if the monster was an adversary.
This is why I love Arcanum. The xp system is about interactions with the world. Making traps, deactivating traps, converting to your faith, nonmagically convincing someone to do something for you, MAKING MAGICAL ITEMS!!!!
great video, but a bit quiet.
Huh? Like he needs background singers? Or a fantasy ambiance music playing?
How about getting xp for finishing quests and thus achieving goals instead of slaying monsters OR aquiring treasure?
Agreed.
Hmm... wouldn't this just encourage the "kill everything to see if it is carrying gold" mindset?
Monsters usually don't carry gold around. At least mine don't. And even if they do, risking death over 10 gold in the orc chieftain's pocket is usually not a good trade off.
That mindset gets characters killed in any edition of D&D where hit points don’t pop back overnight.
Wait, in the real world we don't wake up every morning with yesterdays broken spine and perforated liver completely healed? Better brush up on those driving skills, and omg, crossing the street too! Hot liquids... unsafe food and water... man we are so dead.
What if ur noble and inherit ur papas precious castle. Sell it and get 500k in one session. Yay lvl 1 to 20 before game starts.
Ah but remember, you have to pay and take time for training. Calculate the cost to train for each level from one to twenty and build in the time it takes. And assuming you can find a higher level NPC to train you, it could take years. Easier and more fun to go adventuring.
neat
Audio is too low, can't hear, can't watch...
Sounds like this would just turn the characters into burglars, pick pocekts and business owners. And you would heavily encourage the "steal everything that isn't bolted down, then steal the bolts." Mind you, I use milestone lvl up.
Traditionally, you only get XP from treasure hauled out of dungeons, so gold earned in cities wouldn't give you any XP.
It's a nice video, but probably not good enough. A lot of people playing 5E _do_ want to play heroes and scout boys instead of swindling never-do-wells us OSR folks do. XP for GP makes no sense if you want to be the hero saving villagers, and that needs to be acknowledged (a good point would've been when you brought up how the reward system influences behaviour).
XP for gold only makes sense if you want to encourage out of the box thinking and player driven sessions. I said you might want to try it if you want to encourage that line of thinking, not that it's perfect for everyone.
I said what I said because it seemed like a video you meant for a larger audience like the top X settings video, but when it comes to mechanics, I think being more open about unintended effects and acknowledging others' playstyle is very important.
Anyhow, I didn't want to sound too harsh, because I love your channel.
YnasMidgardNaule
But is it heroic to ride in and use feats and at-will powers and healing surges and tons of HP to save villagers? And then be awarded XP for killing the bad guys?
OR
Is it more heroic to be playing in a low-HP old-school game and to be riding along and see villagers in peril... there is nothing in it for you (which is more realistic) and your chance of death is high. Plus, no reward for killing the bad guys (no XP, or very little). It would be foolhardy to intervene... and genuinely heroic.
At most you may receive a minor title from the local Lord, like “Hero of Spielberg” or something, and respected in the region.