Voyager Reviewed! (by a pedant) S6E18: ASHES TO ASHES

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  • Опубліковано 10 гру 2024

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  • @Unlimited_Lives
    @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +15

    Today's Thought Experiment: The Kobali have offered to bring you back after death... but only as Tom Paris, Harry Kim, or Neelix¹. Give me your choice and the reason for your decision.
    ¹Note: the sweet embrace of oblivion is a valid fourth option.

    • @AvatarRiku
      @AvatarRiku Рік тому

      Harry. Despite not having a personality he gets to do a space shag occasionally; and he’s liked well enough by his peers; and he’s competent

    • @noahlogue
      @noahlogue Рік тому +8

      Neelix so I can actually have character growth

    • @TBKOTOROB
      @TBKOTOROB Рік тому +7

      I will take Oblivion as I've only played ever played Skyrim

    • @dm121984
      @dm121984 Рік тому +6

      Tom Paris - yeah, he can be a dick with big ass daddy issues, but he's smart, being an ace pilot, commando leader, familar enough with engineering to help design infinity speed engines, and second most qualified medical officer on Voyager - he also is skilled at holoprogram design, something that really appeals to me. Add to all that, B'lanna was pretty hot even if it would involve more trips to sick bay than ideal. Edit: Forgot to add, he actually experiences some character growth, something I struggle with in real life, so that'd be nice.

    • @dm121984
      @dm121984 Рік тому +2

      @@TBKOTOROB
      "Hey, you. You're finally awake."

  • @Julius-di8fl
    @Julius-di8fl Рік тому +3

    I appreciate the commitment to the bit of the wheel of names.

  • @bradameerbeg2154
    @bradameerbeg2154 Рік тому +4

    The actress is Kim Rhodes, she played Sheriff Jodie Mills in Supernatural, in case anyone was wondering why she was familiar.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому

      I thought she felt vaguely familiar, but my knowledge of Supernatural is poor.

  • @AvatarRiku
    @AvatarRiku Рік тому +25

    I always figured the Kobali slowly went sterile and had to figure out a way to not do an extinct; sort of like a later season Videan

    • @Selene-ex1jz
      @Selene-ex1jz Рік тому +3

      This is pretty much what I assumed as well.

    • @Nick-dv3ww
      @Nick-dv3ww Рік тому

      Or a species experimented with bringing back the dead, but those brought back were so different that they split off and formed their own society.

    • @mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072
      @mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 Місяць тому +1

      Vidiian*

  • @mb2000
    @mb2000 Рік тому +13

    Why couldn’t this have been Ensign Jetal from “Latent Image”? The set up is virtually identical; killed on a shuttle mission with Kim. Hell, they could have even brought up the Doctor’s trouble in dealing with her death.
    I wonder how many other former Voyager crewmembers are off living new lives with the Kobali?

    • @Norvo82
      @Norvo82 Рік тому +5

      For the same reason Robert Duncan McNeill had to be Tom Paris and not Nick Locarno... If you reuse a character from a past episode, you have to pay the writer for using his/her creation. The beancounters at Paramount don't care for that, best to just come up with a new character altogether.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +2

      Oh, I hadn't considered that. How depressing, which likely means it's accurate.

  • @williamgeorge2580
    @williamgeorge2580 Рік тому +16

    I love the Kobali as a concept. It's something only Star Trek could get away with. Would have liked to have seen more of them.

    • @madmojo-ou2pz
      @madmojo-ou2pz Рік тому +1

      Definitely a different idea and a way to bring back long gone characters like Sesca and Tasha Yar

  • @oddish4352
    @oddish4352 Рік тому +2

    Let's see... Harry's prior romances:
    - A girlfriend/fiancee half a zettameter away.
    - A hologram who isn't a hologram.
    - A bunch of women who are the interstellar equivalent of black widows.
    - The twin who wants nothing to do with him.
    - A separated Borg drone with no understanding of romance.
    - An alien woman who makes him luminescence, and allows Janeway to finish demolishing his Starfleet career with a reprimand.
    - An actual hologram who turns into a cow at inopportune times.
    - A dead ensign resurrected as a zombie.
    - An alien terrorist.
    - Tom Paris. Probably.
    Yeah, abstinence is looking pretty good at this point.

  • @TenniellesChannel
    @TenniellesChannel Рік тому +8

    Thank you for putting the correct emphasis on Dabo!
    Thanks for another great review 💚🌹💚 you are appreciated

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +3

      Can't take credit for the emphasis as it was a suggestion made by the crewmember who submitted the name. She's good, that one...

  • @lorentzfactor5118
    @lorentzfactor5118 Рік тому +8

    With regards to the question of how such a species evolved - I like to think that they're a symbiotic organism born out of some microbe nomming on some alien corpse and accidently reanimating it. Basically, very smart space zombies.

    • @akmi1931
      @akmi1931 Рік тому +2

      Or an adaptation to biological sterilization. They lost the ability to reproduce naturally some time after developing advanced genetic engineering.
      Reanimating the dead might of been a sociological development, as a species that values the remains more then growing new life in cases of cloning or using maturation technology.

  • @FailSonOfAnarchy
    @FailSonOfAnarchy Рік тому +4

    4:01 Ah, the infamous "Fun will now commence" scene.

    • @aelolul
      @aelolul Рік тому

      "It's some kind of"

  • @TenniellesChannel
    @TenniellesChannel Рік тому +8

    I've always thought leaving corpses floating about was weirdly careless for Starfleet. And wouldn't most families want their loved ones bodies returned? You would think they would reconsider after Spock returned.

    • @ptonpc
      @ptonpc Рік тому

      The voyager disposes of its dead via BBQ or cannibalistic orgies, only the scraps are left to throw out... Meat is murder and it's finger lickin good!

    • @Here_is_Waldo
      @Here_is_Waldo Рік тому +3

      Well, based on this, two people fired into space have been resurrected. Those are better odds than getting buried, so maybe they're willing to take those chances?

  • @jonyprepperisrael60
    @jonyprepperisrael60 Рік тому +3

    I WAITED SO FUCKING LONG FOR AS FUCKING DABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  • @murrvvmurr
    @murrvvmurr Рік тому +1

    "Jeremy there's nothing you could have touched that would have turned on the computer" counselor Trois said
    "There are security safeguards in place to avoid accidental computer commands" captain Picard said....

    • @Mecharnie_Dobbs
      @Mecharnie_Dobbs 5 місяців тому

      That was on a ship designed to have children on board.

  • @kyuven
    @kyuven Рік тому +2

    This isnt even the first time blasting a corpse into space has led to unforeseen consequences. The Search For Spock's entire plot was because his corpse landed on Magic Lazarus Planet.

  • @dantesque17
    @dantesque17 3 місяці тому

    Ramrod's sculpture at 08:16 is called a "great rhombicuboctahedron", if anyone was curious.

  • @GnomePickles
    @GnomePickles Рік тому +2

    Funny you mention a corpse pod hitting a pre-warp civilization. I have been playing around with the concept of a precontact civilization getting hit with something an advanced race fired off for awhile and end up rewriting a good portion of it every couple of years. It keeps getting interrupted by life events as my brain shouts, "oooh shiny!" and life freaks out for a minute. I actually think this story may be cursed as the last thing that stopped it was my great-grandmothers passing.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +2

      The distraction is strong in SpicyBrain family. Accidental contamination of a developing civilisation is a good basis for a story though. 2000 years later they discover the Visitor's Sacred Stones are the contents of a reticulan camping toilet.

    • @GnomePickles
      @GnomePickles Рік тому

      @@Unlimited_Lives I like that. I must admit I was a bit of an edgy boy when I was young so my first thought was that it was a munition from a space battle and inspired the population to new sciences but the radiation made the royal family insane. Sort of like the old theory of lead in Roman pipes. Then after the rebellion fights a war to bring freedom to the species, at the last moment of their overthrow of their tyrants, the weapon goes off and glasses the capital city, ending all life on the planet. I was gonna end on a reclamation team finally getting to this world and finding a dead civilization and ticking it off their to do list before moving to the next piece of ordinance.

  • @Yggdrasil42
    @Yggdrasil42 Рік тому

    You're commitment to exclaiming DABO each time was great.

  • @eurgiga9957
    @eurgiga9957 11 місяців тому +1

    Whenever timelines don't add up, just assume temporal shenanigans. The only file longer than Voyager's in the Temporal Investigations Bureau is Kirk's.

  • @Tolly7249
    @Tolly7249 Рік тому +2

    I wish this episode had a follow up at some point. The Kobali are really interesting and I'd love to have more time to really explore their culture and how they wound up needing corpses to procreate.
    Personally though I've always liked the subplot with Seven and the borg kids in this episode more than the main plot. Parenting is hard and Seven's not really had fantastic role models, her parents fucking sucked, so watching her realise that she needs to relinquish some control and let the kids develop is great.

    • @woogha
      @woogha Рік тому

      Star Trek online has a fantastic follow-up to this. It involves the corpse of ensign Kim from way back. Also the Kobali are at war with the Vaadwaur for interesting reasons.

  • @jodieg6318
    @jodieg6318 Рік тому +2

    The more I see Chakotay and Seven thrown together in awkward scenes the more awkward the end result is getting to be. Voyager has done this formula before with Tom and B'Lana but in their case the two characters had enough chemistry and similar personalities to carry the relationship. So far the most interaction between Chakotay and Seven is Chakotay almost getting them killed trying get her interested in his hobbies.

  • @human_that_much3626
    @human_that_much3626 Рік тому +1

    I can’t imagine how much work it would be, but would you consider making a compilation of all the space dog bits?

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +1

      You're not the first to ask. I've still got the bits, so... We'll see. If I get the spare time I might patch them together.

  • @Iruparazzo
    @Iruparazzo Рік тому +1

    absolutely appreciate you pronouncing the exclamation point in Dabo!!! every single time

  • @jeffkiska
    @jeffkiska 7 місяців тому

    You know, I always thought that the idea of stuffing a corpse into a torpedo and firing it off made a certain amount of sense as a Starfleet tradition. It wasn't until this episode that I realized how bizarre it is that they'd just fart one off randomly though. You would think they would at least aim it into a star, as that would both fulfill the idea of leaving no trace (which, as pointed out, seems like something they would value), and also be a touch poetic.

  • @gerrimilner9448
    @gerrimilner9448 Рік тому

    the dog and computer are getting there with a solid plan!

  • @FizzleFX
    @FizzleFX 7 місяців тому

    I love the '!' put on each DABO! like you jut won XD

  • @Laembort
    @Laembort Рік тому +2

    I question how the Kobali are tolerated by their neighbors given their penchant for corpse desecration and the dubious concent of those brought into their fold.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +6

      That's the thing though: it's corpse desecration as *we* know it. We've seen other species who consider the meat we leave behind as nothing more than that. And there are those who deposit their dead with the belief of ascendence or rebirth. Who are we to say this isn't that?
      Speaking personally, I'd have no issue with the biology I inhabit being used to house another consciousness after I'm gone. It's entirely possible the people of their region feel the same way and consent is not an issue. That would tie in with DABO's Alien Dad being offended that we'd simply discard our dead.
      Ultimately we don't know enough about their social structure, and the attitudes of civilisations around them, to make an informed decision. That's what makes it such an interesting ethical question. We have to step out of our own preconceptions to understand it.

  • @stephandolby
    @stephandolby Рік тому

    Star Trek: Space is big.
    Also Star Trek: "And people are always saying that space is so big."

  • @FailSonOfAnarchy
    @FailSonOfAnarchy Рік тому +1

    6:40 Why did they give her 80's hair?

  • @VerityFraser
    @VerityFraser Рік тому +1

    Space Dog should change his name to Lacarno. Depending on when this is happening, that'll get him copywrite struck for sure.

  • @oddish4352
    @oddish4352 Рік тому

    Harry, post return to the Alpha Quadrant. Once he's out from under the evil tyranny of Kathryn Janeway's command, he ranks up quite nicely.

  • @BoojayDeeth
    @BoojayDeeth Рік тому

    All the different ways to say "DABO!"

  • @therwfer
    @therwfer Рік тому +3

    DABO!!!!

  • @Meoknet
    @Meoknet Рік тому

    Great analysis as always but that not withstanding, the last line slayed 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @captainyossarian388
    @captainyossarian388 Рік тому +1

    6:17 Love the Doctor Who aside.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +1

      Simultaneously the best and worst baddie in the history of the show. Superb.

  • @Selene-ex1jz
    @Selene-ex1jz Рік тому +1

    When I first saw this episode, I was absolutely convinced that Dabbo! was that lady who died in the episode were the Doc gets overwhelmed by guilt.
    The end of this episode didn't sit well with me either. As it felt too much like letting a brainwashing victim go back to their kidnapper before they'd had a chance to recover from the brainwashing. Seven expressed a desire to go back to the Borg several times after she was first brought onboard and all of her desires were denied, so why was Dabbo! so easily let go after a single change of heart obviously brought on via despair at the amount of medical treatment she required?

    • @anne-zh2kd
      @anne-zh2kd Рік тому

      I wonder if you could do something like consent to it, like with organ donation. And she IS dead. Is it worth it when she would stay dead otherwise? Good point though. I wonder if the writers had a clear narrative they wanted to tell or just did the Voyager thing and winged it.

    • @johnpotts8308
      @johnpotts8308 Рік тому

      Because she only had a contract for one episode!

  • @micro150
    @micro150 Рік тому +1

    Is this the unknown ensign from Latent Image?
    She was on the mission with the Doc and Harry Kim?

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  11 місяців тому +1

      No, though I have a suspicion it was going to be prior to rewrites. That would account for the timeframe inaccuracies. Another commenter suggested it was because using a new character means the writer who came up with the character in Latent Image doesn't need paying again. Depressing, but rings true.

  • @cha02psc
    @cha02psc Рік тому

    You know, I could go for a Ramrod Gin and Tonic right about now

  • @KingOfMadCows
    @KingOfMadCows Рік тому

    It's pretty dumb for the Kobali to go around taking corpses. They are a warp capable species, they should know that a lot of other species have rituals and taboos about the dead. It would make much more sense for them to trade for corpses with species who are willing to give up their dead.
    And launching bodies into space makes no sense. Unless those crew members already have instructions to have their bodies launched into space after their deaths, Starfleet should preserve their bodies to be returned to their closest living relatives.

  • @jonyprepperisrael60
    @jonyprepperisrael60 Рік тому

    I honestly loved this episode as a concept.
    But tbh I enjoyed more the STO mission about the episode.
    Featuring CAPITAN Kim and a not so capitan Ensign Kim

  • @Norvo82
    @Norvo82 Рік тому +3

    The Kobali's way of cadaver reproduction is every bit as inefficient and convoluted as the Taresians who claimed Harry Kim was one of them back in Favorite Son. It's such a clunky plot device you want to hit the writers for being this lazy. But it's late season 6 on Voyager, by now they've realized continuity doesn't matter. Nothing has consequences so do whatever. And they did. Awful.

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +1

      I mean... you're not wrong, but I also find the ethics side of that worth exploring so I guess I'm getting enough out of it to make the concession worthwhile. I can completely see why people can't get over that initial buy-in cost though.

    • @Norvo82
      @Norvo82 Рік тому +1

      @@Unlimited_Lives Oh, it's an ethical minefield, of course. It's hard not to see them as a race of grave robbers, at least as bad as the Vidiians or even the Borg.
      Then again... If you are dead and your remains get consumed by microbes and parasites as well. They use your dead form to reproduce. But now those parasites are sentient, warp capable and armed.
      I guess it speaks for the Kobali that they don't seemingly hunt down and kill folks when they want offspring. But even a polite corpse grabber is still a corpse grabber.

  • @davidrohde2636
    @davidrohde2636 Рік тому +1

    My question was, Harry was in love with Dabo! Whilst he was with liby his "true love".

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому

      AHA! Good catch, and I actually looked into this because the same thought occurred to me. Answer: probably, but there's a slim chance the answer is no.
      He "closed the door" on DABO when they were both assigned to Voyager.
      Now, in the alternate history of 'Non Sequitur' we see he applied for Voyager on 03 December 2370 (shortly after graduating) and was rejected the following day. Assuming his application and acceptance were the same days in the reality we're following, then that gives December 04 as the day he gave up on DABO!
      Voyager **probably** didn't leave until some time in April 2371 (that's Janeway's first Delta Quadrant log in 'Caretaker'). So, depending on when he got assigned, he had up to 4 months to become attached to Libby.
      Of course, there's also a third possibility that he's polyamorous and Libby was fine with him having a thing for other people. It's the 24th century after all. They've got a literal fuck planet. Maybe he has more than one true love.

  • @goodwill559
    @goodwill559 Рік тому +1

    is it weird to find the character cuter in alien makeup over her human appearance ?!

  • @reynoldsVincent
    @reynoldsVincent Рік тому

    I think this is a good lower decks episode in the sense that she just didn't register significantly to commanders, which must have come as a shock having risked a lot to rejoin her original crew. Starfleet looks pretty bad as a supportive family. On the other hand, the Borg children retain a lot of their former child-level curiosity and willfulness, and that seems to mean something worth accommodating in the face of a more constrained Borg child-development. I suspect had circumstances been different, not being pressured by lasers, Dabo might have adapted to Voyager as a new person. But would the crew have adapted to her, now being so altered? Perhaps not. If one reflects, likely the Kobali are very accepting of remnant identities despite their insistence the old person is now "dead". Because so many of their Frankenchildren have aspects of their donor re-surface. Like the Vulcans, perhaps they have practices to integrate or repress these, and that's just a damned interesting premise. Does the Federation offer anything but fussy gene therapy to alter their appearance, and do they just shun Frankenresurrectees as just too creepy to socialize with? If so, the Kabali are far the more accepting and supportive culture, while the Federation shows lingering visceral bias against the re-animated gene donor community. Hard to understand, when they have transporters.

  • @AvatarRiku
    @AvatarRiku 9 місяців тому

    How does a replicator even burn a pot roast? It has to choose to turn energy into overcooked food

  • @nisselarson3227
    @nisselarson3227 Рік тому

    Actually Harry is extra annoying in this episode in his refusal to stop trying to attack the aliens and all that during the battle. He outright tells Janeway "don't listen to DABO! she doesn't know what she's thinking" like she's a child because he's so needy. I still wouldn't call that growth.

  • @philipjay2099
    @philipjay2099 Рік тому +2

    I'd think that these folk are bringing ppl back to life on the regular should be of more interest. Sure, old life died, but you still carry the memories. I carry the memories of several me long dead over decades. Why is she not the same individual who has changed, again, as everything does?
    Now that I questioned such "aloud" I fear it's going to be half a Lower Decks episode like when everyone was getting Tuvixed.

  • @ryancarroll3957
    @ryancarroll3957 11 місяців тому

    This episode confused me re: the bodies into space....
    Wasn't the point of ejection into space that it's a space cremation? That they get shot towards a star and burn up??
    That's what they did in Babylon 5. Why would you eject the remains to float endlessly forever??
    I had assumed in this episode it just didn't go into the sun for whatever reason.
    Also why not take them back to the alpha quadrant?
    Does this mean voyagers ex cmo, xo, chief engineer..nurses etc are all still floating around the delta quadrant after voyagers home?
    Jeez maybe they'll clunk into one of the Project Full circle fleets ships by ironic accident when starfleet goes back to the delta quadrant

  • @TheMoneypresident
    @TheMoneypresident 6 місяців тому

    What happened to the Borg baby?

  • @shmee123ful
    @shmee123ful Рік тому

    there is a common critasim that this women should have being the same as the one that sent the doc into a tisse a season back. also sometimes i feel someone wasnt keeping track of how many short cuts voyager has used. in less the calbai have transwarp drive how to hell is this meeting even possable

  • @AvatarRiku
    @AvatarRiku Рік тому +1

    Iirc Dabo! Also roasted the shit out of Janeway’s cooking

  • @ptonpc
    @ptonpc Рік тому +1

    Good call Skull Dog, why do the murder when you can get someone else to do it for you. I did like Dabo's actress and the story itself but I felt the inclusion of Kim was clunky, more a case of "We need Kim on screen for X number of minutes".
    The Kobali doing the pooping was a bit 'meh', again, as if it was done because there was a quota of explosions and stuff.
    Why would anyone keep all the stuff of a dead crewmate when they could just toss it all into a replicator to break down, with the exception of the odd keepsake?
    To be fair, considering what is left after the BBQ, I mean funeral, perhaps most of the time, there isn't organic material left to contaminate anything anyway?
    EDIT: Isn't Dabo's dad played by the same actor who played alongside Nana Visitor in Duet?

    • @Unlimited_Lives
      @Unlimited_Lives  Рік тому +1

      Quota of Explosions sounds so reductive and embarassing that it's probably the term they used.
      DaboDad: AH! That'll be why he felt familiar. Couldn't put my finger on it but I think I have him now. Played a Cardigan who is accused of being a Proper Bastard but [spoiler spoiler spoiler]? Is that the one?

    • @ptonpc
      @ptonpc Рік тому +1

      @@Unlimited_Lives That's the one. It was the episode than convinced me DS9 could be far more than a standard sci fi show.
      PS. Feel free to pinch 'Quota of Explosions' if you want.

  • @nisselarson3227
    @nisselarson3227 Рік тому

    So, how did this race evolve, like at all? If they need ... dead... confusion.

  • @empirejeff
    @empirejeff 9 місяців тому

    Come back Dabo 😢

  • @pedrocortez3485
    @pedrocortez3485 Рік тому

    This episode pissed me off because i really really really was hoping she would stay and she would have made it a little better of a cast, atleast every 3 episodes or so. But alas they made her an ignorant annoying character.

  • @kestrelgaming554
    @kestrelgaming554 Рік тому

    I know it originally how you dealt with un-liveing at sea but to do it in space is just wrong. Never understood that in trek.

  • @christopherholt6750
    @christopherholt6750 Рік тому

    You've been criticizing Janeway's decision about Tuvix ever since you reviewed it, with one mention about it in the pilot. You've been very harsh to her. Sometimes even savage. In response to that I'd like to say......
    Keep it up. I felt the episode was well acted and written. The issue I had with it was that a Starfleet officer, who's supposed to be a pillar of ethics basically violated their principals by killing a living being because she wanted her friends back. And the entire crew was implicit in it. And although holodoc did refuse to give the injection himself, I feel he should have had the authority to stop Janeway from doing it. But then maybe Starfleet wouldn't have a protocol for a holographic doctor to stop a biological Starfleet captain from violating Starfleet principals. Hippocrates.
    Please continue disgracing Janeway for this decision for the remainder of Voyager. Maybe even a jab at some of the complicit crew. If you want to, that is. Just a suggestion.

  • @wanderingfool6312
    @wanderingfool6312 27 днів тому

    The horrified reaction from the rest of the crew whenever she demonstrates any Kobali culture or language is really odd, and comes across to me as a weird kind of prejudice.

  • @TyrMcDohl
    @TyrMcDohl Рік тому +1

    DABO!!!