@@Elberto71 oddly enough, they DO still occasionally do that today. It's called Trephining, or more commonly referred to today a "Burr Hole." Hope I never need to have it done tho! Lol
@@JasperJanssen That's already the big reason why we never use Schottky diodes as bridge rectifiers for main voltage. Also it requires a translucent bulb and a clever physical placement of the diodes to smooth the 50/60 Hz flicker of such an led bridge (on top of the 100-120Hz flicker of the main led chain).
I got some led bulbs the other day. Supposedly 12W, I was expecting from other experiences that they would actually be about 6W but they were a disappointing 3.3W. When I first tried them in my light fitting they were much brighter than the 3.3W would have suggested... for about 3 seconds before they failed. The whole circuit consisted of a MLCC capacitor with a discharge resistor and a bridge rectifier. My dimmer switch is a digital high frequency PWM type which meant that the capacitor passed much more current than normal which explained why the led filaments lasted about 3 seconds in the light fitting. So there's a word of warning to anyone with digital dimmers, don't use bulbs with capacitive dropper circuits.
@theelmonk No. Digital dimmers turn the current on and off at high frequency. The effective resistance of a capacitive dropper is inversely proportional to the frequency. That effective resistance is calculated based on a frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. If the dimmer creates a higher frequency then the effective resistance is much lower, resulting in much more current being passed. IGBT dimmers still work on the basic 50/60Hz so they do not affect the effective resistance of the capacitive dropper.
Clive, the reason the blue phosphor less LED shimmered was that the ones with phosphor had an afterglow that filled in the zero crossing dim spots. All of them would shimmer without phosphor. Merry Christmas. Hope you and Ralfie will share a hot toddy, to take the chill of the Irish Sea off.
Another angle on the "shimmer" is that the LEDs in the ”arms" of the bridge conduct at 50 Hz (half wave) while those in the "load" branch run at 100 Hz (full wave).
@@TonyFisher-lo8hh yeah and without a proper placement of those half wave leds combined with the use of a transparent bulb, this 50-60Hz flicker is much more noticeable.
@@PainterVierax That makes sense! I've heard of using LEDs as the current-reducing resistors in DC circuits - with a good bit of math it can be reasonably done, apparently. Just never thought about using them like that in an AC circuit!
I love your videos, the level of detail you go into, and your ability to explain. I've learned so much from your channel, thank you from Phoenix Arizona.
I had been curious to know if using LEDs to make a full bridge rectifier was viable. I think this is the first time I've seen you take apart something using this. Nice to know it's viable. Whether it's practical remains to be discussed.
Hats off and a merry Christmas to you Clive, and lets not forget the people that designed and made the machine that churns out these LED's at a phenomenal rate.
I always forget about your X-ray machine, so whenever you post one of those I am caught out by the title (until I start playing it and remember immediately)
It's time for Cozy Christmas with Clive. I keep my house about the same temperature that he does, so it's like we are in the same meat locker while looking at the bulbs.
The LEDs in the bridge rectifier are never reverse biased. When one side would be reverse biased, the other side conducts, limiting the reverse voltage to a reasonable value (15-ish volts for all 6), instead of the full 310V peak.
A Very happy Christmas from all of us "Down Under" (where it is currently a very cosy 30C and 52% humidity with almost no surface level breeze!) Those would make excellent little outdoor ornamental lights. Being glass they would be resistant to Aussie sunshine, and there's plenty of environmentally - sealed E12 line sockets available from everywhere. Might be doing a spot of "Christmas Day" on-line shopping!
It’s surprising that your adapter never gets stuck in the e27 and always comes out with the bulb - I’d have thought the big thread would have more resistance than the small.
A Wheatstone Bridge of Colourful Diodes. J A Fleming would be well pleased. Although, I am certain Edison would take the honors... You're right Clive, they do look great. All the best for the remainder of the silly season.
I guess if I was designing it I would have had another 1/4 W resistor on the other end of that circuit and possibly putting a pair of those filaments in parallel. It would be dimmer but possibly make the life a bit longer.
Awww, I thought it was axe-ray... Joke aside, the AliExpress page says they are dimmable - but with just the resistor, they would be terribly flickery when dimmed by the usual 220V dimmer switch, right?
It is great glass was used, was it me or was the Filament vibrating slightly while it was being powered, or is that an effect of the strobing . Be interesting to see the leds in slow motion, wee/see if the same positions light up at the same time for the ones acting as recritifiers
Interesting leds not supposed be reverse biased but, do handle 100v. Think depends on how the intrinsic layer is doped. Some pin diodes damaged if over reverse bias.
ooh the blue lamp shimmering reminds me of the "fuzz" lasers dots give off. but the pink colours nice. they are getting very clever making these LED filaments. Nice bulbs 2x 👍
The unsmoothed flicker would drive me nuts, would be much more appealing if they were low-voltage DC, but I guess that'd need a dodgy power supply that probably would go bang... :P
Enjoy your Christmas Clive. May you indulge in food and drink, merriment and more. Nice looking lights, too bad you had to destroy one for the video but science must go on. Is the filament salvageable as it's encased in the silicone rubber sleeve? Thanks.
My local Blue Diamond garden centre in Addlestone sells 'Solar Neonesque Lightbulbs Set Of 10' for £19.99. They are very attractive but might be cheaper elsewhere.
Probably indifferently. It will only light up at all for those phase angles with enough voltage to overcome the total forward drop of the chain of LEDs
Why don't you have a bulb testing rig - that you can insert more than one bulb (or a varying degree of bulb fittings) at a time in so you can see all the colours at the same time on the bench - can you make that as a project.?
It seems they ensure low reverse voltage on the leds by shunting non-conducting leds with some that are conducting for that phase. But how do they fail ? If one led goes open circuit, does the complementary path get a voltage that exceeds the permitted reverse voltage ? And fails excitingly ?
Since filament bulbs like that Green and Blue ones have no smoothing circuitry powering the LED chips in series inside the filament. It is normal for similar bulbs to be pulsing along the AC sine wave of 50Hz or 60Hz depending on the region? Asking as I've seen some terrible filament bulbs and mains LED strips powered direct by AC with minimal circuitry (a "bridge rectifier" formed by LEDs like the one you shown in this video or straight mains AC to LEDs in series with a resistor every few diodes) that were pulsing and bothered me since I could see them flickering by eye. Fun seeing the shiny X-ray machine still being effective in taking things apart for closer examination. Merry Christmas to you Clive.
I wonder if some microsurgery on the gel would help the photography. If just the top surface was sliced off so it was flat instead of curved, you might be able to better focus on the LED underneath. It probably wouldn't be pretty or even, but getting even one along the strand right would be enough as they're all (probably) the same part.
To help with the picture find a liquid with the same refractive index as the silicone and submerge/coat the filament in it, then sandwich it between a microscope slide and cover glass. It'll help a lot with the lensing effect, but won't really help with any haze if it's not perfectly clear.
A quick google suggests it has a refractive index between 1.4 and 1.6 which is pretty close to propylene glycol (1.43) at the lower end... and as a flavour inhalation enthusiast you've almost certainly got a supply of such liquid on hand, might be worth a try in future.
I dropped a 120v curved LED bulb. I was very surprised to find that the filaments are flexible silicone, instead of having glass in them like the straight ones.
Glad to see Clive having a smashing time this Christmas!
I apologise if I've made this joke before but: once I had my head X-rayed. I'm glad they didn't use that kind of X-ray machine...
Indeed 😮
Imagine the old days when they would drill a hole in your head to relieve pressure 😮
@@Elberto71 oddly enough, they DO still occasionally do that today. It's called Trephining, or more commonly referred to today a "Burr Hole." Hope I never need to have it done tho! Lol
I thought this was Paul Pelosi responding for a second.
You wouldn’t have to worry about anything ever again after that x ray
The "obligatory kiss goodbye" just about killed me. I had to rewind the video to hear what you said after. Have a happy Christmas!
LOL The sound of that “x-ray machine” sounded more like an MRI
I like the look of those bulbs.
Merry Christmas Clive, and everyone.
Cheers Franko! Back at ya !
@@andymouse Cheers mate. 🧀 🥃
RIP Calculon.
@@frankowalker4662 RIP Calculon !
These are very cute bulbs...the curved filament is really nice :)
@@gregorythomas333 They're so cute, I keep one as a pet! ... He really lights-up my life! 💡👍🤣
I like the idea of usig the LED's as a bridge rectifier...new idea to me.
Yeah, but each led is getting about 50V reverse voltage. That’s a heckuva lot.
@@JasperJanssen That's already the big reason why we never use Schottky diodes as bridge rectifiers for main voltage.
Also it requires a translucent bulb and a clever physical placement of the diodes to smooth the 50/60 Hz flicker of such an led bridge (on top of the 100-120Hz flicker of the main led chain).
Come, children. Let's all sit around the fireplace at Christmas eve and watch BigClive smash some bulbs.
I don't know why it came up in my mind but "Christmas AvE" Derrogatory version of Red Green's "Keep your stick on the ice" not included.
Merry Christmas Clive. Thanks for all the informative teardowns, projects, carbonated drinks and of course the laughs.
Now we need a button which says "Gidoiiiiinnnnngggg" alongside our button which says "One moment please..." when pressed!
Tappy Tap Tap. Wonderful Xmas video
Tappy Tap Tap,,,, Ooops..
I got some led bulbs the other day. Supposedly 12W, I was expecting from other experiences that they would actually be about 6W but they were a disappointing 3.3W.
When I first tried them in my light fitting they were much brighter than the 3.3W would have suggested... for about 3 seconds before they failed.
The whole circuit consisted of a MLCC capacitor with a discharge resistor and a bridge rectifier. My dimmer switch is a digital high frequency PWM type which meant that the capacitor passed much more current than normal which explained why the led filaments lasted about 3 seconds in the light fitting.
So there's a word of warning to anyone with digital dimmers, don't use bulbs with capacitive dropper circuits.
Does this include the dimmers recommended for leds, which have IGBTs instead of triacs to control the switch-off time instead of switch-on ?
@theelmonk No.
Digital dimmers turn the current on and off at high frequency. The effective resistance of a capacitive dropper is inversely proportional to the frequency. That effective resistance is calculated based on a frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. If the dimmer creates a higher frequency then the effective resistance is much lower, resulting in much more current being passed.
IGBT dimmers still work on the basic 50/60Hz so they do not affect the effective resistance of the capacitive dropper.
Me, someone who just watches these videos to see what the inside of stuff looks like: Ah yes, noted.
don't all LED bulbs state their incandescent Wattage equivalent in light output on their packaging? Not usually their actual Bulb wattage.
@@HerbaMachina Not on Aliexpress
"Through the magic of buying ten of them..."
"...I can afford to sacrifice one... for science!"
Clive, the reason the blue phosphor less LED shimmered was that the ones with phosphor had an afterglow that filled in the zero crossing dim spots.
All of them would shimmer without phosphor.
Merry Christmas.
Hope you and Ralfie will share a hot toddy, to take the chill of the Irish Sea off.
Another angle on the "shimmer" is that the LEDs in the ”arms" of the bridge conduct at 50 Hz (half wave) while those in the "load" branch run at 100 Hz (full wave).
@@TonyFisher-lo8hh that´s what I thought too... (but I cannot judge linuxranch´s explanation, cause I don´t comprehend it)
@@TonyFisher-lo8hh yeah and without a proper placement of those half wave leds combined with the use of a transparent bulb, this 50-60Hz flicker is much more noticeable.
I shielded my eyes during the X-raying 🙈
RIP lil fella 💡
Using the LEDs, which are diodes, as the diodes for a rectifier is wild. How have I never thought about that??
because it's very uncommon as the flicker and the current limitation is unsuitable for most applications.
@@PainterVierax That makes sense! I've heard of using LEDs as the current-reducing resistors in DC circuits - with a good bit of math it can be reasonably done, apparently. Just never thought about using them like that in an AC circuit!
I love your videos, the level of detail you go into, and your ability to explain. I've learned so much from your channel, thank you from Phoenix Arizona.
Kinda reminds me of a project I made as a kid of adding Christmas lights onto a headband, those lights being live at mains voltage
I had been curious to know if using LEDs to make a full bridge rectifier was viable. I think this is the first time I've seen you take apart something using this.
Nice to know it's viable. Whether it's practical remains to be discussed.
It's used in some industrial indicators, but only with a few LEDs.
Hats off and a merry Christmas to you Clive, and lets not forget the people that designed and made the machine that churns out these LED's at a phenomenal rate.
Have a "Smashing" Xmas! Chinese engineer to boss: I hear that Scottish engineers are less wasteful. Boss to his engineer: Prove it!!!
Lol, choosing a light bulb as if it was a delicate chocolate truffle 😁
The Hammer of Understanding
I always forget about your X-ray machine, so whenever you post one of those I am caught out by the title (until I start playing it and remember immediately)
Don't forget the vise of knowledge.
Is that one of AvE's glorious X-Ray machines?
It is indeed.
Merry Christmas Clive.
Merry christmas to you and family Clive, have a good one!
Merry Christmas Clive! Hope you have a wonderful time.
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.
Unusual bulbs? Thanks Clive and Merry Christmas.
Thanks for all your videos mate. Hope you have a lovely Xmas.
nice shiny x-ray machine
Always nice to see a BFH on hand.
Please demo doobying a whole string of these bulbs! I am curious about how much you could reduce the load on the resistors doing this.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you Clive.
Hmmm... We have the Vice of Knowledge and now the Hammer of Clarity? What about the spudger? The Spudger of Ingress?
I put on my PPE as soon as I saw you had the x-ray machine out.
Nice lamps Clive, wishing you a very merry Christmas and take care in all you do ❤
It's time for Cozy Christmas with Clive. I keep my house about the same temperature that he does, so it's like we are in the same meat locker while looking at the bulbs.
The LEDs in the bridge rectifier are never reverse biased. When one side would be reverse biased, the other side conducts, limiting the reverse voltage to a reasonable value (15-ish volts for all 6), instead of the full 310V peak.
A Very happy Christmas from all of us "Down Under" (where it is currently a very cosy 30C and 52% humidity with almost no surface level breeze!) Those would make excellent little outdoor ornamental lights. Being glass they would be resistant to Aussie sunshine, and there's plenty of environmentally - sealed E12 line sockets available from everywhere. Might be doing a spot of "Christmas Day" on-line shopping!
Merry Christmas Clive 🎄 ❤
I'm glad Clive doesn't do dental x-rays.
I can think of a few people who really need that kind of x-ray.
The extra shimmering at 2:23 is probably because there is no phosphor with a brief fluorescence time to 'smooth out' the bursts of blue light.
Thank goodness the HOPI is ok. That would have been my Christmas ruined.
That’s a great X-ray machine
An AVE Persuader ... Quality...
peace
The blue one in the box looked gold, gutted it's blue, a cool LED colour in itself but should be illegal for Christmas lights
Good old x-ray
Such a powerful machine everyone should own
It’s surprising that your adapter never gets stuck in the e27 and always comes out with the bulb - I’d have thought the big thread would have more resistance than the small.
Shimmer at the ends just like good old florescent tubes
A Wheatstone Bridge of Colourful Diodes. J A Fleming would be well pleased. Although, I am certain Edison would take the honors...
You're right Clive, they do look great.
All the best for the remainder of the silly season.
The colored light bulbs unique flickering remind me of the light sabers from Star Wars!.
I guess if I was designing it I would have had another 1/4 W resistor on the other end of that circuit and possibly putting a pair of those filaments in parallel. It would be dimmer but possibly make the life a bit longer.
Awww, I thought it was axe-ray...
Joke aside, the AliExpress page says they are dimmable - but with just the resistor, they would be terribly flickery when dimmed by the usual 220V dimmer switch, right?
Yes. Many of the dimmable lamps flicker.
Counting those chips instantly brings to mind the horror of the Sesame Street pinball machine counting clip...
Should we shield our eyes from the X rays?
I have heard from reliable sources, that X-Rays don't travel well over the internet 😞
You should shield them from the flying glass.
11 days ago :0
It is great glass was used, was it me or was the Filament vibrating slightly while it was being powered, or is that an effect of the strobing
. Be interesting to see the leds in slow motion, wee/see if the same positions light up at the same time for the ones acting as recritifiers
No vibration. Just LED rectifier shimmer.
Interesting leds not supposed be reverse biased but, do handle 100v. Think depends on how the intrinsic layer is doped. Some pin diodes damaged if over reverse bias.
will they work on US 120v power?
Yes. But at lower intensity.
ooh the blue lamp shimmering reminds me of the "fuzz" lasers dots give off. but the pink colours nice.
they are getting very clever making these LED filaments. Nice bulbs 2x 👍
PS… happy solstice Clive and wishing you a safe and joyous new year.❤
Merry jingle bells, keep up the good work!
The unsmoothed flicker would drive me nuts, would be much more appealing if they were low-voltage DC, but I guess that'd need a dodgy power supply that probably would go bang... :P
The copper hammer of knowledge 😊
Enjoy your Christmas Clive. May you indulge in food and drink, merriment and more. Nice looking lights, too bad you had to destroy one for the video but science must go on. Is the filament salvageable as it's encased in the silicone rubber sleeve? Thanks.
The filament survived.
Can you get the B lue flash Bulbs?? the 4 side cub or the bulb... THOSE were MEAN BULBS.
I think they were filled with magnesium wool.
My local Blue Diamond garden centre in Addlestone sells 'Solar Neonesque Lightbulbs Set Of 10' for £19.99. They are very attractive but might be cheaper elsewhere.
I was confused by the bridge rectifier being at both ends of the filament. Is this effectively two bridge rectifiers working in parallel?
It's two half bridge (as opposed to full bridge) rectifiers at each end.
With resistive dropper it should work well with a triac dimmer.
I don't think so because it doesn't glow like a wire.
Probably indifferently. It will only light up at all for those phase angles with enough voltage to overcome the total forward drop of the chain of LEDs
Have a Merry Christmas BC.
Cool hammer.
Why don't you have a bulb testing rig - that you can insert more than one bulb (or a varying degree of bulb fittings) at a time in so you can see all the colours at the same time on the bench - can you make that as a project.?
🤩❤️ they look Great, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays !
It seems they ensure low reverse voltage on the leds by shunting non-conducting leds with some that are conducting for that phase. But how do they fail ? If one led goes open circuit, does the complementary path get a voltage that exceeds the permitted reverse voltage ? And fails excitingly ?
If the rectifier LEDs fail the resistor will limit the current, but possibly smoke in the process.
Since filament bulbs like that Green and Blue ones have no smoothing circuitry powering the LED chips in series inside the filament. It is normal for similar bulbs to be pulsing along the AC sine wave of 50Hz or 60Hz depending on the region?
Asking as I've seen some terrible filament bulbs and mains LED strips powered direct by AC with minimal circuitry (a "bridge rectifier" formed by LEDs like the one you shown in this video or straight mains AC to LEDs in series with a resistor every few diodes) that were pulsing and bothered me since I could see them flickering by eye.
Fun seeing the shiny X-ray machine still being effective in taking things apart for closer examination.
Merry Christmas to you Clive.
Happy Holidays and cheers to another year of nerdom. Thanks for the laughs as always Clive 🩷
You call it the X-ray. My step dad called it the Persuader. I call it my Pecker.
Merry Christmas big Clive. Keep it up boss 😅
Happy Xmas Clive.
I broke up with Ray because he always rectified me. Straight in the feels...
I wonder if some microsurgery on the gel would help the photography. If just the top surface was sliced off so it was flat instead of curved, you might be able to better focus on the LED underneath. It probably wouldn't be pretty or even, but getting even one along the strand right would be enough as they're all (probably) the same part.
To help with the picture find a liquid with the same refractive index as the silicone and submerge/coat the filament in it, then sandwich it between a microscope slide and cover glass.
It'll help a lot with the lensing effect, but won't really help with any haze if it's not perfectly clear.
A quick google suggests it has a refractive index between 1.4 and 1.6 which is pretty close to propylene glycol (1.43) at the lower end... and as a flavour inhalation enthusiast you've almost certainly got a supply of such liquid on hand, might be worth a try in future.
Remember European standards, aren't they 220v ?
In which case the resistor would be radiating 0.27W
Merry Cristmas Big Clive and all who watch you :)
1:52 Dude your table snake still have no tongue, it needs one NOW! nice lamps BTW but I think these gonna flicker quite a bit in low light conditions
Smashing! 🤣 Thanks for another year of very informative videos. Have a very merry Christmas.
Clever design
The first 20 seconds made me laugh so hard!
reverse bias is a great way to turn a 5 year LED in to 2.5 years.
Is the X-Ray an Alec Steel hammer?
It's an AvE hammer.
Very cool Big Clive.
Interesting and very attractive. Not suitable for standard E14 sockets, though.
They may do E14 versions, or you could use an adapter.
I dropped a 120v curved LED bulb. I was very surprised to find that the filaments are flexible silicone, instead of having glass in them like the straight ones.
If it's not destroyed, then it should still work, but the filament contacts will be referenced to the mains supply.
Happy Allthedays BC!
I have 3 X-ray machines in my lab. The biggest one is 15lb.
Seems like an opportunity was missed to film the opening of the bulb in high speed while crushing it in the jaws of knowledge...
I guess that X-ray machine is from AliExpress also.
It is from AvE.
I love that all you have to do to change the color is just put a coating over the LED instead of changing the actual LEDs themselves
About all leds are blue leds nowadays with a phosphore coating
@rj7855 so they're all blue with just a different coating to get the different colors