I have owned the Bosch unit for some time. It is mounted on a terrific stand that folds into a two wheel cart and offers a great solution for construction work - mobility, accuracy, great power, and long, extendable work support. In my shop, I wanted to upgrade my huge Delta 12" radial arm saw that was built into the center of a 20" long work bench. This saw was used almost exclusively as a rough cut saw that I only used for rough dimension to begin machining for a furniture project. Instead of using my Bosch saw, I bought the Kapex because I always love everything Festool. You did a great job of exposing strengths and limitations that I have found. The one very critical issue that I would add is that the unit is underpowered to be used as a "very precise cut-off saw". My old delta made an awful cut and was a little dangerous to use but it would plow through a 14" wide, 3" slab of hard maple like it was balsa wood. With the Kapex, I have to make a series of cuts at increasing depths and tend to burn the wood because it slows down as I run through the cut several times. The Kapex can fit in well as a precision furniture making tool to handle angled cuts of all types but not so good as a rough dimensioning tool as I typical use as my first step when bringing hardwood lumber into my shop. I still love everything Festool but I am going to take my Bosch off it's stand and mount it into my work bench replacing the Kapex. I will have to decide if this Kapex stays around for precision work or goes on Craig's list. Great review from the Wood Whisperer as usual. Thanks.
Great review. My Kapex has 10 years now and I just purchased the new Busch miter saw. Same reasons you explained in here. A few more things bothered me on the Kapex. 1- At the end of the week (lot of cuts) it starts to jamb when you pull it down and you have then to do a cleanup and relubricate. 2- as you mentionned, the non standard size blades, that costs a fortune from Festool. 3- the shorter longitudinal travel... Every top manufacturer caught up to Festool lately, We can no longuer justify the high price.
I recently had a project to trim out a house, I been using a 12" Hitachi saw that required set-up and alignment each time it was taken to site. I switched to the Kapex unit with extension wing about 3 years. I can honestly say you can't bet the Festool unit for accuracy, portability and dust collection. The project went quickly...this tool is a money maker. Still amazed how well it works from being stored \ abused in the truck.
Just wanted to say thanks. I have been watching you on UA-cam for about two years you were the first one I found .That did woodworking on UA-cam . Good luck with your family and future on your move. It was great to meet you at the WIA a few weeks ago. You and others inspired me to start my own channel. Thanks again Best Regards Robert E Lee ( Bob Lee's woodshop) ,On UA-cam I will be watching you as well!!👍👍👍👍
Hey Mark, Nice comparison vid! I have a miter saw with a similar clamping system. My solution was to JB Weld a 3/8 nut to the top of the clamp screw, and keep a dedicated nut driving bit next to the saw. I use my impact drill to tighten and release work pieces. Sort of goofy but it works well for me.
I really appreciate your reviews! They pertain to important aspects of function and not just random things that aren’t important. I appreciate your review also not being super long, it’s really the perfect amount of time! I will be subscribing!
I went in the opposite direction. I had two of the Bosch Saws, though mine were the previous model which did not have the glide. I work in the field most of the time and found the Bosch saw to be heavy moving in and out. The size and weight alone are worth the Kapex price to me. I am glad there are so many options these days for good tools and all prices. I started over 30 years ago, when the only slide saw was a Delta SawBuck. Great review, keep it up;0)
Ok this may sound a bit nuts.. I'm a welder fabricator but somehow came across your vids on your UA-cam.. Now I can't get enough of them, I also enjoy listening to the woodtalk podcast (although I don't always have a full grasp on what you're talking about) I guess I just share the 'making' interest as you guys despite the difference in the materials.. Keep up the great inspirational work.
I have this Bosch saw, it's awesome I have had 2 other compound miter saws a 12" porter cable non-slide and another Bosch 12" slide, this is superior for sure. Also at the 5:40 mark, you know to get that clamp to fit properly you can slide the fence back and you won't have to worry about lifting it out of the hole as much FYI...
Great review and I agree 100% with you. I've had the Bosch Glide for almost a year now and it's perfect except for the dust collection. I've somewhat solved the clamping since I have mine setup with a fence extension with plenty of places to put a quick clamp but for shorter pieces no dice. If anyone does find an after-market dust collection that works well, I'd REALLY appreciate to know about it. Thanks for teaching me almost everything I know about woodworking!
The adjustable clamp you showed is the same as what came with my older model Bosch. Here's what you can do. Screw the pad down until the bar no longer contacts the fence, or so it no longer contacts the fence when you have a board under it. I used a 3/4 board, but you'll want to use whatever size you cut most often. That said, I hardly ever adjust the pad. When you go to use the lever, first, pull the clamp pad away from the fence - there is a little play in the device - and when you depress the lever, it will pull the board into the fence, as well as pushing it down into the base of the saw. Hope this makes the clamp and saw more usable for you!
I just got my 12" Bosch Glide in the mail. I looked at the clamp and it's actually a lot easier to adjust than most clamps because it works just like a holdfast. You just put your material against the fence and drop the clamp into one of the holes in the back and give it a couple turns. It should stay in place. Or you could give it a sharp tap with a hammer or mallet like you would on an actual holdfast.
I think pretty much everyone would agree that the Kapex is a better saw. The question is, is it $900 better? Dust collection is definitely worse on the Bosch, but I'm pretty sure if I had $100 I could engineer the hell out of some good dust collection for this saw and still have $800 left over. Festool makes some unbelievable tools (Domino, Rotex, TS55), but the Kapex just isnt one of those.I'll take that money and buy a second Laguna bandsaw before I wasted that money on a chop saw. But to each his own.
When you get into very difficult angled cuts is when the Festool shines. If you're just doing 90 degrees or 45 degrees, any miter saw will get you what you need. Of the of the cool features of the Kapex is the dead accuracy of its lasers.
Paul Hopkins AvE is an idiot and wouldn't know how to even use a track saw. The track saw is more accurate than a cabinet saw when used properly and why would you need a big beefy motor when a track saw is used primarily for sheet goods? What you're paying for is the system and its accuracy. These saws last for years. The track saw is meant to be lightweight and accurate, which the Festool is. Dewalt also makes a fine tracksaw. AvE's video only impresses people that don't understand tools and what they are used for and for people that don't like Festool because they can't afford it.
Paul Hopkins I think the best testimony for any tool is the collective voice of those who use them day in and day out. His comment about the 'proprietary cord' is a good example. To him, it was a negative. Those of us who use Festool products no doubt see the Plug It cord as a huge plus. I use one cord hooked up to my CT26 - all the rest of my Festool cords still have the wire ties on them. He didn't point out any "weak" items. He's an idiot that doesn't have the first clue about engineering, and tossed in a few fancy words in an attempt to "Baffle with Bullhockey". For example, if he had the slightest clue about ANY variable speed motors, he wouldn't have even hesitated upon noticing the magnetic pickup on the shaft for a Hall Effect sensor. It's standard on every variable speed motor for the past several decades!!! It's not new. It's not even a question. Yet he sat there and pondered it as though it may have been present to pick up stray metallic debris (like the magnetic drain plug on a car engine). Idiot! Then he goes off on the thermal melting point of the plastic housing. Huh? If your motor, any motor, hits 360 degrees, it's already GONE!. But this brainiac didn't even notice the 2 little red wires leading to the embedded thermistor in the motor housing....let alone what a thermistor actually is. The motor controller will shut down the motor long before it ever reaches 360 degrees, because the insulation on the windings can't withstand that high of a temperature. He was in awe about seeing balancing grinds on both ends of the rotor? Geez, where did he get his experience, watching someone balance wheels at the local gas station? Even a teenager at the gas station knows you balance both side of a wheel. What bloody idiot is going to try to remove a rotor without pulling the brushes? I was dumbfounded watching him yank on the motor housing with a screw driver. It wasn't until a minute later that he admitted to not pulling the brushes. Dust boot not withstanding, did he not suspect the brushes would also have to slip past the shaft bearing? Of course he was surprised to see spiral pinion gears...because he's an idiot. Does he not realize that is a major upgrade from a straight pinion gear? Those aren't cheap to broach! But they mesh a heck of a lot better and are a heck of a lot quieter, and there's a darned good reason why spiral pinon gears have been standard in automotive differentials for the past century. Think I've been hard on him? Not even close. I'd have that boy in tears if I had the chance to say what I think to him personally. He's that much of an idiot.
Paul Hopkins Just be happy with what you have and be thankful. There is no reason to tear down someone that chooses a different tool from you and people don't need your permission or approval for what they like to use.
@MWA Woodworks As a professional woodworker, I personally think the Kapex is highly overrated. As are most of festool's tools. I'm not brand loyal, I buy what I feel is the best; having said that, I own a lot of Makita power tools. I have an obsession with accuracy, and while Festool provides that accuracy, it's just overrated and overpriced. If I wanted to spend absurd amounts of money for accuracy, I would skip right over Festool and buy Mafell. Check out Ave's channel here on youtube, I believe he has disassembled some of festools saws and shown that they are in fact overpriced for the build quality. They use way too much plastic in my opinion and the tool weight just isn't there.
I have had the privilege of working over the years with several mitre saws designed and presented by different manufacturers, ranging from the mighty DeWalt, Makita, Festool, and only recently this new very clever mitre saw by Bosch. The saw arrived a few weeks ago and I only place a review when I have had a significant amount of time with the machine, I see many reviewers place reviews 30mins within receipt of their saw which is at best silly and at worse naive! The Bosch Glide Saw stands tall on the mitre station, it has real presence and a very clever arrangement of well engineered elements all designed to offer the woodworker cutting ability and space saving over many of its competitors. The Good! The saw sits tight to the wall saving a huge amount of valuable space, the saw is powered by an impressive 3hp brushed motor, the glide arm is very solid even at full extension, I found that at full reach you would have to really force the saw head to gain lateral movement either left or right, the depth of cuts is one of the deepest available in today's mitre saw market, the saw has a very wide stance with extending arms which offers greater support for longer lengths, the fences are tall and I found that both fences on my saw where near perfect! The Bad! I endeavoured over a period of 4hours with the aid of three highly accurate machined precision Germany squares but not one time did I make a cut that was perfect, some cuts where marginally better than others but none would be acceptable within the world of a cabinet maker. In conclusion it makes me rather sad to present this disappointing review, I had high hope and expectation for the new approach to mitre saws by Bosch, but taking into account that my saw may have been a lemon I reluctantly would have to conclude that I would reject this saw as an option if you require high end precision cuts at cabinet grade.
Louie's Workshop I have the kapex. Over the years I bought a series of engineer squares. The longest one I bought is 450mm long. That really costs some money although I'm pleased to have bought it. I set up my mft using it. I found my festool track saw cuts more accurate than the kapex. The longer cuts are not quite as good on the kapex. Checking shorter cuts with my engineer square I think my machine may need some tweaking. However not bad for some of my applications . I find I'm slightly out making draws which then requires a little work to make good. I'm thinking of getting a good heavy table saw. The mft is good for cutting sheet goods. When you start working with recycled timber and don't prepare thoroughly because say I'm just building a draw for my shed I found the mft was slightly out. I'm guessing it's because I didn't run the timber through a buzzer. I just thicknessed. The board may have been slightly warped so my cut was marginally out. I did rectify it although I wasn't happy. What was good is the timber has a much nicer aesthetic look about it. Someone stole all my equipment. One of the machines I lost was my festool cordless plunge saw. I was going to give away my corded plunge saw. So glad I didn't. I'm a plasterer by the way although have made my own furniture since the 1990s. I worked with cabinet makers and helped them set up kitchens. I'm a sort of self taught learning through my trials.
@@ron1martens hi Ronald, I am sorry for such a late reply, I found your response extremely interesting and accurate, always remember that wood does not come straight and often after machining g stay straight so the hidden art of the cabinet maker is to deal with this issue, and yes I do have the kapex, a brillant saw but not perfect, in the end pal we can get things close but not perfect!
Having moved from the Bosch to the Kapex, I have to say I much prefer the Kapex handle, as it allows you to cut ambidextrous while keeping your body centered on the saw, which is especially helpful for me, as a righty, when the keeper cut is to the right of the blade.
I have both the Bosch 12" Axial Glide saw and the Festool Kapex. In terms of accuracy, I haven't found anything that beats the Kapex. I often use the Bosch on site for trim work and such, but it has torsion movement in it, some of which is the flex in the blade but also from the arms themselves. I build high end cottages in Muskoka (in the top 10 vacation destinations in the world, FYI) and I am blessed enough to get to work with lots of different woods. Not sure what my next general purpose saw will be but I'm not convinced it will be another Bosch
Thanks for the video. I finally decided and picked up this saw for my tiny shop. I have several Irwin clamps and I made one into a hold down for this saw and it works great. I will admit that dust collection is a problem and I did fiddle around with a piece of thick rubber to make mine bigger but it didn't help much. I may look around and see if anyone else has tackled the problem in a video. Great video.
Thanks for the info. I'm getting this saw soon to replace my 15 year old Dewalt. Dan Pattison has a good video on improving the dust collection for the Bosch.
Nice review. The Bosch is nice; I almost bought it instead of the Kapex. The dust collection is what sold me on the Kapex, though. I've been using the saw in my house for the past 8 months on a long-running renovation. If dust collection isn't a big deal, or you're going to put a hood behind it, then the Kapex loses its main advantage. One thing I do like on the Bosch is the additional capacity. Also, FWIW, you can get a Forrest Chopmaster (and other blades)with the Kapex arbor size. It does cost something like $20 more, though.
Mark, I coupled this same saw with a $30 laser disc that replaces the left blade washer, and set the whole thing in my version of Jay Bates miter saw station. The laser is dead on accurate, and dust is no problem at all. Used it the other day for my first non-90 degree cuts and it was perfect.
I have had my Bosch for one year now. I primarily build high end furniture, mantel clocks, and grandfather clocks. My biggest complaint with it is the inconsistent results. Especially on the wider cuts. I have found that it does not take much lateral pressure to cause the articulating arms to flex. This results in cuts that are out of square or not straight on longer cuts. The indents also have some slack and I have to make sure that I am actually back at 90 degrees after making a miter cut. This is not to say that I cannot get accurate cuts. But I do need to be careful about double checking that the saw is square to the fence, that I am careful not to put lateral pressure on the handle, and I cut slowly. Not sure that this is what I was looking for in a saw. I am really considering the Festool. As much as I wanted to fall in love with the Bosch, I kind of sensed that the relationship was going nowhere and that I was probably in denial to justify the purchase.
Having also auditioned both of these saws in my shop, and with much respect, you can pry my kapex from my cold, dead hands. The dust collection, kerf lasers, and clamp are just too good to let go of. When I broke the bevel handle on my Kapex (tried too hard to adjust it without releasing the lock) I thought I would replace the saw with the Bosch. I was wrong, and returned the Bosch within 2 days. I also rarely bevel, so the Kapex is stuck at 90 degrees until I decide to order some parts. It has been 2 years now. And that's perfectly fine with me.
Great comparison. I had this Bosch saw and hated it, was never happy to use it. Took hours to dial it in to cut straight/square cuts. It would never cut the same every time. Sometimes it was straight other times it was way off. It also stuck out into the room more than I would’ve liked, especially if you wanted to swing it to make 45 degree cuts it couldn’t be placed that close to the wall. I finally had enough of it and sold it! I bought a Makita XSL04 36v Brushless miter saw and never looked back! It’s an amazing cordless saw. Makita was the closest to Festool that I could find without breaking the bank. Makita makes miter saws fun again. 👍🏻👍🏻
I liked the review, it seemed very objective. I had 2 thoughts about your complaints. Fastcap has a xero clearance tape that might fix the slight drop to the insert and be quickly and easily replaceable as need and a good machine shop could add an extension to that clamp, materials wouldn't cost much, it mostly be labor.
I like the Bosch too. Honestly, in 40 years of working in cabinet shops and job sites I’ve never once seen anyone use one of those clamps on a miter saw. I always assumed they include them as liability protection from litigation
never really had the wall space to dedicate to a crosscut saw... but after watching this I'm kind of tempted to got get this one try and find a way to make it work.
The clamping system on mine is my biggest gripe. The dust collection is the second. The ability to put this saw right up against a wall is a huge plus. Also the mechanism is super smooth.
I bought this saw as an upgrade to my 10" single bevel. Smooth movement, powerful motor, and dead precision. It went to work straight out of the box. No need to square up anything. I am the envy of my woodworking buddies.
Is the dust collection worth an extra $1000 (my local prices)? Personally, I don't think so. I'd rather rig something up and have an extra grand in my pocket.
Then thats the proper choice for you. It depend on what you do and what breathing in sawdust is worth to you. I wish the Kapex was cheaper but there is no other saw on the market that is even close to its dust collection. It also is more than 20lbs lighter than the Bosch Glide, it has a built in miter angle finder, it has variable speed for cutting different materials, its laser actual works, and I prefer the vertical handle. I prefer to save my money in other ways. I don't spend $200 a month on Starbucks Coffee and microbrews. I drive a perfect condition 2004 truck and haven't had a car payment in over 12 years. So for me spending an extra $800 for a tool that does the mentioned items above isn't as big of a deal for me. Its for every person to decide what its all worth to them.
Hey there Marc. I have had the bosch axial glide miter saw for about 5 or 6 years now. I have the same impressions of the saw that you do. My biggest gripe is the dust collection. It is actually pretty poor if you ask me. I have made a few adjustments to try and improve the performance, but to no avail. I first replaced the rubber shoot with a much larger one.....no change. Then I made a larger shroud that sits behind the fences that allows the rubber shroud to pass through and at the end of the cut, creates a backstop. No change here either. I think the real issue is where the shroud is located. If you look at the Kapex, the shroud is right behind the saw blade. The Bosch unit appears to be several inches back. It blows my mind that the Kapex can be that much better at dust collection than the bosch. With that said, for the price difference and how I use my saw (shop setting) I love my bosch.
Yeah I noticed the same thing. Dust collection is one of those things that you REALLY need to think through in order to make it effective. Look at dust collection on just about any Festool tool and you'll see there's more to it than simply casting a big net and hoping for the best. Same thing with SawStop's dust collection when using their blade guard. It has to be a considering from the start of the tool's design and not an afterthought. So I don't have my hopes too high that I'l be able to get great dust collection from this thing. But I'm hoping to maybe get at least half way there. :)
Hey Marc! I think I'll keep my Kapex. The dust collection is so good and the hold down works great. I wish it had a bit more power but with the Ug stand and wings, it doesn't take up much of a foot print in my shop. The Glide would be my second choice...
Hey Marc, I have come up with a solution to significantly increase the amount of dust collection at the Bosch. If you are interested, I can shoot you my email address and tell you what I did. Since you are just starting to set up your new shop, it might be something you might want to incorporate.
I've been using the Bosch Glide in the field for just over a year. It is easily the best compound miter saw I have ever used and I've used many different brands over the last 20 years. It lives on a Kobalt folding saw stand in the back of an 18 foot box truck and gets rolled out on the job site. I was concerned about it staying true bouncing around in the back of the truck and to my chagrin that has yet to be an issue, it still cuts as true as the day I put into service. As for your problem with the Bosh clamp when I first bought them I had the same issue, until I called customer service, they told me just flip the lever on the back of the upper fence and slide it out till the clamp clears and re-lock it in the new position then when your done just slide it back to it's original position.
Hi Marc. Well I've been looking to upgrade my small 8" Bosch mitre saw for about 1 month, about a week ago i decide i was going to do it spend a bucket load of cash on the Kapex this weekend but on Friday i saw your vid and it confused me after 1 month of deciding and coming to a result you throw a spanner in the works, so i spent another 2/3 hours on you-tube looking at the Bosch and after weighing all the pros and cons up i've gone with the Bosch GCM12GDL cost £698 inc vat delivered it's the one with the laser, as it will be put in one place and stay theres is no problem about moving to job sites, so it was a no brainer plus I've saved myself £300/400 or you have, so thank you, i get the saw tomorrow and will be playing with it all day just to make sure its for me. Anyway just wanted to let you know your vid was just the thing a was looking for and i know you have had both so your a good person to listen to unless Bosch are paying you to say this is a top saw but i trust you 100% and all the other review say the same thing about it. So thank for saving me a bit of money for the wife to spend on windows blinds :( Cheers mate.
I wanted the Bosch but settled for the Hitachi. It can be had for less than $400 and has the same type of smaller footprint as the kapex and bosch. The handle is vertical but allows for both left and right hand use. So far I am very happy with it.
Love my Bosch GCM12SD. Lugging it up/down stairs or anywhere for that matter on site is not fun. Very heavy and awkward to carry. I do have the mobile stand for it too, and this is a must have for maneuvering it around. Great saw, have cut thousands of feet of molding as a trim carpenter and got mine on sale for around $520 and the stand for another $200 at HD. Dust collection does have to be modified at the port. I have a Festool vac attached and I did need to extend the flare like the video to guide the dust into the suction zone.
Saw a video earlier today by one of the FOG members. It was on his personal youtube channel and he was trying out the FastTrack Zero Clearance Insert Tape. He showed the price was $5.00 and I think the package contained 5 strips, so at a buck a shot, maybe that would take up the minor dip without shimming and also provide your zero clearance at the same time. The strips were 2" wide and I think 16" long, so you trim to fit by application.
Hi there Marc, that toggle hold down will work just fine if you just slide the back fence out to the side 🙂 I have 10" saw with sliders, and very satisfied with its performance, it also looks like mine has got a bit better dust extraction than yours, but not the best...
I have had mine for 8 years and am 95% happy with it,down side is it's hauled in my trailer and with the bit of movement it receives ,it needs constant adjustment I personally recommend this saw
I have a Hitachi 10" dual bevel miter saw and I had a helluva time adjusting it to cut square. It came out of the box not cutting square. I still like it because it's easy to set up, the laser guide works well and it cost me $300 brand new. I'm a carpenter with 42 years of experience, so I've used many a saw over the years. I do most of my work onsite.
I've got the Bosch and the DeWalt Flexvolt. The Bosch has been used for about 7 years and I can't keep it square, not to mention the detent lock tab is totally broken and a pain to get it to unlock. It's basically junk at this point. The flexvolt doesn't seem like it's going to wear like the Bosch because I can adjust the detents and the physical bolts that stop it at certain bevels. Even before the Bosch was worn, the Flexvolt is so much easier to use, especially the lever that locks it in place, both for miters and bevels. All I can say is I'm sold on the DeWalt saw and the ability to run it on batteries has saved me several times when power went out or they suddenly had to work on the electricity on jobsites.
I Have this saw and love it, straight out of the box it was perfect. I purchased it at Home Depot for $325, they were closing them out to make room for new product. Also took my 10% for military discount, stole it! I work part time for HD on the merchandising team, if you actively watch and do walk throughs you can really get some great deals.
Great review. Regarding the clamp. Honestly, if you're going to invest into something like this, you're more than likely going to build a Miter Saw station and put in a good Miter fence with a stop block which means you'll never use that clamping system again to make sure your piece doesn't go anywhere again. Plus when you're doing the same measurement cut over and over again, that where a stop block on a fence really shines, so I wouldn't say this is a major flaw. The only thing that's a down side is definitely the dust collection, which honestly, Festool does so well. I just really hate the handle grip to the Kapex which I think everyone except true loyalist Festool guys would agree on.
we bought a Bosch to use at work. 4 good carpenters using it for a month. We ended up taking it back. The fence wouldn't stay square and the bevel would creep down as the lock wasnt strong enough to hold the head if it wasnt at a stop. We didn't replace it with a kapex because of the motor issues they have. I have a kapex and I like the saw a lot but I think with the amount of trim we cut in a day the motor wouldnt last long at all so advised against it. For a one man show it's great. For a whole crew its just too expensive. I am waiting for the new makita front rail miter saw to come to stores so I can check them out
Hi Marc, great video, thank you for your time. Not sure if you are aware (you probably are though) the fences also slid out and may aid in the use of the fast clamp. Thanks again, I am all in on this saw.
Just a note on Forrest. They will drill any kind of holes necessary for your saw. I'll bet they have a solution for Festool. I have a Felder combination machine with 30mm arbor and locking pins, and they drilled out that format and it works great.
If you live near a Menards, they sell the Bosch and they regularly have 11% rebate sales. I've also seen the saw itself on sale there. I haven't picked on up yet. I'm waiting for a project where I need a miter saw.
there are several things that could be improved about the kapex (mainly the depth stop and the handle), but in my experience the bosch glide wobbles a lot more. also, it is a lot heavier. i would say theres a lot of room for improvement in the miter saw world.
I've had the same Bosch GCM12SD in my shop for a year now and cringe every time I use it. Unlike the Festool Kapex, the Bosch doesn't have soft start so unless you've got a death grip on the handle, it really jumps when you pull the trigger. The back fence is also odd and once allowed a cutoff piece to fling back with enough force to shatter the dust collection hood. It was all replaceable, but shouldn't have happened. I too use a Forrest Chopmaster blade as the Bosch blade that came with it had about 20 thou wobble. I'll buy a Festool Kapex before the end of the year and put the Bosch on Craigslist.
Hi mark don't disagree with anything although in the UK the price difference is a lot less about £60-£100. I still went for the Bosch because of something you didn't mention which is the increased capacity. My previous machine was the Makita LS10, one of the original (over 10 years old) but the Festool could not beat the capacity as a shop machine. When I can afford it I will replace the Makita with the Festool Kapex for job site work. As for the dust there are some suggestions on u-tube for home made solutions, which I will be applying next week, a simple measure using an old inner tube. Also I've had mine for over a year now so needed to get a spare blade whilst the original was being sharpened. I opted for a blade with90 tips and I found the dust problem got worse. So blade choice has an influence on the amount of dust generated. Keep up the good work. A fellow lover of Festool stuff David
I'd been drooling over this saw for awhile and got lucky and found one on Craigslist that had never been used that included the gravity rise stand. Got the whole setup for $600 and then sold the stand for $200 and made a miter station. I'm like you in that I don't do bevel cuts so I torqued the bevel tension nut all the way down so I know it will stay true at 90 degrees. Made a zero clearance insert ala John Peters vid and it is perfect.
Fwiw, I have a different model of Bosch and it just took a bit of work on a belt sander to get that Festool clamp to fit. Feels bad to start cutting away material on a brand new $100 clamp but it fits well now and it’s great to use like you said.
The problem I have with the Bosch is the weight - it is hernia inducing. I leave mine permanently attached to a mobile miter saw stand in my shop but even on that the weight has caused it to topple over. Fortunately the saw is strongly built and there was no significant damage. For onsite jobs I use either my Hitachi 10 inch or Hitachi 12 inch dual bevel miter saws - they are both accurate and portable. The Bosch has tremendous cutting capacity and is very accurate for cross cuts but the motor position limits bevel cuts, and compound miter cuts are not always precise.
I understand you mostly do 90 degree cuts, can please explain the function of the bevel part of a mitre saw, maybe in a video. I have a 12" double Bevel compound mitre saw & haven"t used that feature yet. I"ve replaced all the baseboards,did a few wainscoting jobs and have just begun crown moulding.
I have got this one and made exactly the same experience except that I had big issues with the Laser. I needed to replace it soon after I bought it and even though I have spent hours with it I didn't manage to adjust it so that it is actually pointing where the cut will finally be. Main reason for buying it was the larger capacity than the Festool and the integrated support. BTW: this machine is produced in China whereas Festool still produces in Germany or at least Europe...
The clamp is not as bad as it sounds. Large adjustments are made in the back with the clamp shaft. You slide the clamp in after you place your piece on the table. The pressure you create when tightening keeps it in place.
hi Bob here am carpenter from Ireland I just bought this saw with dual lasers.i find my saw has a blade wobble on start up and one laser (left) is blocked by the blade as u bring it to the wood.can u say if it's in all the saws.i rang bosch they ordered new shaft to see if it's fixable
I own this Bosch saw: I put the Kapex hold down clamp on this saw; it works and is sooo much better then the Bosch. I also put the Kapex rubber shroud on this saw using a zip tie. Again works much better. Dust collection - well this is not really fixable. I use a Festool shop vac, with large 36mm hose, and even with the Festool boot it's not very good.
Great review! The fence will slide over to give you clearance for that Bosch aftermarket hold down, which seems pretty cool. I’ve got this miter saw, but haven’t as yet unboxed. I’m really looking forward to getting it out. Thanks for the review.
4 роки тому
With a bit of grinder work I fitted the Festool clamp on the bosh and it works great
I love this saw! I've had it in my cabinet shop for five years now with no issues. You do need to pull it out from the wall a little more in order to make compound cuts.
Have you tried extending the back guides out for the quick release? and or removing it altogether? That should give you enough room for it to work like you want it to. By the back guide I mean the top guide is movable you can extend it out on either side, and or remove it leaving the bottom part.
You can slide the top part of the fence further out from the saw. In fact you have to for some bevel cuts. There's a little red lever on the back of the fence to unlock it. Then I suspect the quick clamp will fit.
I enlarged the dust collection shroud using a motorcycle tube. The rubber is thick enough to keep its shape and gives easily if it comes in contact with the work piece. Another gentleman welded stainless tube that had a 2" ID for way better flow. Found hist mod using a google search.
I have the same saw with the same sawblade and I love it. The only thing I don't like is that it weighs like 80+ pounds so it's kinda a pain to move around, but for a dedicated shop saw, it's perfect.
With over 55 years experience and having used and owned various chop saws, I can not speak highly enough about the Festool Kapex. I think that it is worth every penny!
Bought the Ten inch glide knowing my dewalt twelve inch was on the frits. I bought the bosch on a sale so it was boxed for almost a year befor the dewalt died. I was so excited to finally unbox this GLIDE. So after a few hours had this thing all set and matched up to my sawhelper stand. While trimming a bonus room in a garage (with mdf most forgiving material ever) was having trouble making my miters match on the door trim. Went back to the saw probable ten times to make a miter?? I thought it was me for about an hour thinking WTF!!! So what I found out is the positive stop on the glide, depending which way you lock them there about a half to quarter degree off from one another. Meaning a full degree at times for a miter. Giving the saw the benefit of the doubt I went to ever store in town ( four that have this saw) and did the same test. EVER BOSCH WAS THE SAME AS THE POS I OWN!!!!!!!>>>>>> Happy ending I bought the Kapex and now have a new boat anchor
Dust extraction on Bosch is absolutely horrible. I tried extending the shroud with some masking tape, duct tape, etc., with very poor results. The 90 degree elbow where the extractor hose connects doesn't probably help either. It just shows how many power tool companies simply don't consider dust extraction an important issue. And that's one of the things that make Festool tools stand out. Is that worth paying 2x the price? It's all relative. How much is preventing respiratory issues worth?
I have owned the Bosch unit for some time. It is mounted on a terrific stand that folds into a two wheel cart and offers a great solution for construction work - mobility, accuracy, great power, and long, extendable work support.
In my shop, I wanted to upgrade my huge Delta 12" radial arm saw that was built into the center of a 20" long work bench. This saw was used almost exclusively as a rough cut saw that I only used for rough dimension to begin machining for a furniture project. Instead of using my Bosch saw, I bought the Kapex because I always love everything Festool. You did a great job of exposing strengths and limitations that I have found. The one very critical issue that I would add is that the unit is underpowered to be used as a "very precise cut-off saw". My old delta made an awful cut and was a little dangerous to use but it would plow through a 14" wide, 3" slab of hard maple like it was balsa wood. With the Kapex, I have to make a series of cuts at increasing depths and tend to burn the wood because it slows down as I run through the cut several times.
The Kapex can fit in well as a precision furniture making tool to handle angled cuts of all types but not so good as a rough dimensioning tool as I typical use as my first step when bringing hardwood lumber into my shop. I still love everything Festool but I am going to take my Bosch off it's stand and mount it into my work bench replacing the Kapex. I will have to decide if this Kapex stays around for precision work or goes on Craig's list.
Great review from the Wood Whisperer as usual. Thanks.
Great review. My Kapex has 10 years now and I just purchased the new Busch miter saw. Same reasons you explained in here. A few more things bothered me on the Kapex. 1- At the end of the week (lot of cuts) it starts to jamb when you pull it down and you have then to do a cleanup and relubricate. 2- as you mentionned, the non standard size blades, that costs a fortune from Festool. 3- the shorter longitudinal travel... Every top manufacturer caught up to Festool lately, We can no longuer justify the high price.
I purchased my Glide 2 weeks ago, so I'm really glad you didn't point out a bunch of stuff wrong with it that I hadn't discovered yet.
I recently had a project to trim out a house, I been using a 12" Hitachi saw that required set-up and alignment each time it was taken to site. I switched to the Kapex unit with extension wing about 3 years. I can honestly say you can't bet the Festool unit for accuracy, portability and dust collection. The project went quickly...this tool is a money maker. Still amazed how well it works from being stored \ abused in the truck.
For the $900 difference I think I can engineer some clamping and dust collection. Thanks for the vid, Mark. I've been looking forward to this one.
The fact that everyone compares this saw to a Kapex makes me realize that, for the money, the Bosch is worth every penny.
Just wanted to say thanks. I have been watching you on UA-cam for about two years you were the first one I found .That did woodworking on UA-cam . Good luck with your family and future on your move. It was great to meet you at the WIA a few weeks ago. You and others inspired me to start my own channel. Thanks again Best Regards Robert E Lee ( Bob Lee's woodshop) ,On UA-cam I will be watching you as well!!👍👍👍👍
Hey Mark, Nice comparison vid! I have a miter saw with a similar clamping system. My solution was to JB Weld a 3/8 nut to the top of the clamp screw, and keep a dedicated nut driving bit next to the saw. I use my impact drill to tighten and release work pieces. Sort of goofy but it works well for me.
I really appreciate your reviews! They pertain to important aspects of function and not just random things that aren’t important. I appreciate your review also not being super long, it’s really the perfect amount of time! I will be subscribing!
I went in the opposite direction. I had two of the Bosch Saws, though mine were the previous model which did not have the glide. I work in the field most of the time and found the Bosch saw to be heavy moving in and out. The size and weight alone are worth the Kapex price to me.
I am glad there are so many options these days for good tools and all prices. I started over 30 years ago, when the only slide saw was a Delta SawBuck. Great review, keep it up;0)
Ron Paulk
Ok this may sound a bit nuts.. I'm a welder fabricator but somehow came across your vids on your UA-cam..
Now I can't get enough of them, I also enjoy listening to the woodtalk podcast (although I don't always have a full grasp on what you're talking about) I guess I just share the 'making' interest as you guys despite the difference in the materials..
Keep up the great inspirational work.
That's awesome to hear! Very cool that you aren't bored to tears listening/watching us wood guys. :)
I have this Bosch saw, it's awesome I have had 2 other compound miter saws a 12" porter cable non-slide and another Bosch 12" slide, this is superior for sure. Also at the 5:40 mark, you know to get that clamp to fit properly you can slide the fence back and you won't have to worry about lifting it out of the hole as much FYI...
Great review and I agree 100% with you. I've had the Bosch Glide for almost a year now and it's perfect except for the dust collection. I've somewhat solved the clamping since I have mine setup with a fence extension with plenty of places to put a quick clamp but for shorter pieces no dice. If anyone does find an after-market dust collection that works well, I'd REALLY appreciate to know about it. Thanks for teaching me almost everything I know about woodworking!
The adjustable clamp you showed is the same as what came with my older model Bosch. Here's what you can do. Screw the pad down until the bar no longer contacts the fence, or so it no longer contacts the fence when you have a board under it. I used a 3/4 board, but you'll want to use whatever size you cut most often. That said, I hardly ever adjust the pad. When you go to use the lever, first, pull the clamp pad away from the fence - there is a little play in the device - and when you depress the lever, it will pull the board into the fence, as well as pushing it down into the base of the saw. Hope this makes the clamp and saw more usable for you!
I just got my 12" Bosch Glide in the mail. I looked at the clamp and it's actually a lot easier to adjust than most clamps because it works just like a holdfast. You just put your material against the fence and drop the clamp into one of the holes in the back and give it a couple turns. It should stay in place. Or you could give it a sharp tap with a hammer or mallet like you would on an actual holdfast.
No mention of the side deflection when extended??
Very good overview Marc. You've definitely highlighted some points that wouldn't be obvious unless you had used the saw for some time. Cheers!
I think pretty much everyone would agree that the Kapex is a better saw. The question is, is it $900 better? Dust collection is definitely worse on the Bosch, but I'm pretty sure if I had $100 I could engineer the hell out of some good dust collection for this saw and still have $800 left over. Festool makes some unbelievable tools (Domino, Rotex, TS55), but the Kapex just isnt one of those.I'll take that money and buy a second Laguna bandsaw before I wasted that money on a chop saw. But to each his own.
When you get into very difficult angled cuts is when the Festool shines. If you're just doing 90 degrees or 45 degrees, any miter saw will get you what you need. Of the of the cool features of the Kapex is the dead accuracy of its lasers.
Paul Hopkins AvE is an idiot and wouldn't know how to even use a track saw. The track saw is more accurate than a cabinet saw when used properly and why would you need a big beefy motor when a track saw is used primarily for sheet goods? What you're paying for is the system and its accuracy. These saws last for years. The track saw is meant to be lightweight and accurate, which the Festool is. Dewalt also makes a fine tracksaw. AvE's video only impresses people that don't understand tools and what they are used for and for people that don't like Festool because they can't afford it.
Paul Hopkins
I think the best testimony for any tool is the collective voice of those who use them day in and day out. His comment about the 'proprietary cord' is a good example. To him, it was a negative. Those of us who use Festool products no doubt see the Plug It cord as a huge plus. I use one cord hooked up to my CT26 - all the rest of my Festool cords still have the wire ties on them.
He didn't point out any "weak" items. He's an idiot that doesn't have the first clue about engineering, and tossed in a few fancy words in an attempt to "Baffle with Bullhockey".
For example, if he had the slightest clue about ANY variable speed motors, he wouldn't have even hesitated upon noticing the magnetic pickup on the shaft for a Hall Effect sensor. It's standard on every variable speed motor for the past several decades!!! It's not new. It's not even a question. Yet he sat there and pondered it as though it may have been present to pick up stray metallic debris (like the magnetic drain plug on a car engine). Idiot!
Then he goes off on the thermal melting point of the plastic housing. Huh? If your motor, any motor, hits 360 degrees, it's already GONE!. But this brainiac didn't even notice the 2 little red wires leading to the embedded thermistor in the motor housing....let alone what a thermistor actually is. The motor controller will shut down the motor long before it ever reaches 360 degrees, because the insulation on the windings can't withstand that high of a temperature.
He was in awe about seeing balancing grinds on both ends of the rotor? Geez, where did he get his experience, watching someone balance wheels at the local gas station? Even a teenager at the gas station knows you balance both side of a wheel.
What bloody idiot is going to try to remove a rotor without pulling the brushes? I was dumbfounded watching him yank on the motor housing with a screw driver. It wasn't until a minute later that he admitted to not pulling the brushes. Dust boot not withstanding, did he not suspect the brushes would also have to slip past the shaft bearing?
Of course he was surprised to see spiral pinion gears...because he's an idiot. Does he not realize that is a major upgrade from a straight pinion gear? Those aren't cheap to broach! But they mesh a heck of a lot better and are a heck of a lot quieter, and there's a darned good reason why spiral pinon gears have been standard in automotive differentials for the past century.
Think I've been hard on him? Not even close. I'd have that boy in tears if I had the chance to say what I think to him personally. He's that much of an idiot.
Paul Hopkins Just be happy with what you have and be thankful. There is no reason to tear down someone that chooses a different tool from you and people don't need your permission or approval for what they like to use.
@MWA Woodworks As a professional woodworker, I personally think the Kapex is highly overrated. As are most of festool's tools. I'm not brand loyal, I buy what I feel is the best; having said that, I own a lot of Makita power tools. I have an obsession with accuracy, and while Festool provides that accuracy, it's just overrated and overpriced. If I wanted to spend absurd amounts of money for accuracy, I would skip right over Festool and buy Mafell. Check out Ave's channel here on youtube, I believe he has disassembled some of festools saws and shown that they are in fact overpriced for the build quality. They use way too much plastic in my opinion and the tool weight just isn't there.
I have had the privilege of working over the years with several mitre saws designed and presented by different manufacturers, ranging from the mighty DeWalt, Makita, Festool, and only recently this new very clever mitre saw by Bosch.
The saw arrived a few weeks ago and I only place a review when I have had a significant amount of time with the machine, I see many reviewers place reviews 30mins within receipt of their saw which is at best silly and at worse naive!
The Bosch Glide Saw stands tall on the mitre station, it has real presence and a very clever arrangement of well engineered elements all designed to offer the woodworker cutting ability and space saving over many of its competitors.
The Good!
The saw sits tight to the wall saving a huge amount of valuable space, the saw is powered by an impressive 3hp brushed motor, the glide arm is very solid even at full extension, I found that at full reach you would have to really force the saw head to gain lateral movement either left or right, the depth of cuts is one of the deepest available in today's mitre saw market, the saw has a very wide stance with extending arms which offers greater support for longer lengths, the fences are tall and I found that both fences on my saw where near perfect!
The Bad!
I endeavoured over a period of 4hours with the aid of three highly accurate machined precision Germany squares but not one time did I make a cut that was perfect, some cuts where marginally better than others but none would be acceptable within the world of a cabinet maker.
In conclusion it makes me rather sad to present this disappointing review, I had high hope and expectation for the new approach to mitre saws by Bosch, but taking into account that my saw may have been a lemon I reluctantly would have to conclude that I would reject this saw as an option if you require high end precision cuts at cabinet grade.
Louie's Workshop I have the kapex. Over the years I bought a series of engineer squares. The longest one I bought is 450mm long. That really costs some money although I'm pleased to have bought it. I set up my mft using it.
I found my festool track saw cuts more accurate than the kapex. The longer cuts are not quite as good on the kapex. Checking shorter cuts with my engineer square I think my machine may need some tweaking. However not bad for some of my applications . I find I'm slightly out making draws which then requires a little work to make good.
I'm thinking of getting a good heavy table saw. The mft is good for cutting sheet goods. When you start working with recycled timber and don't prepare thoroughly because say I'm just building a draw for my shed I found the mft was slightly out. I'm guessing it's because I didn't run the timber through a buzzer. I just thicknessed. The board may have been slightly warped so my cut was marginally out. I did rectify it although I wasn't happy.
What was good is the timber has a much nicer aesthetic look about it.
Someone stole all my equipment. One of the machines I lost was my festool cordless plunge saw. I was going to give away my corded plunge saw. So glad I didn't.
I'm a plasterer by the way although have made my own furniture since the 1990s.
I worked with cabinet makers and helped them set up kitchens. I'm a sort of self taught learning through my trials.
@@ron1martens hi Ronald, I am sorry for such a late reply, I found your response extremely interesting and accurate, always remember that wood does not come straight and often after machining g stay straight so the hidden art of the cabinet maker is to deal with this issue, and yes I do have the kapex, a brillant saw but not perfect, in the end pal we can get things close but not perfect!
Good radial arm saw for the win!
Having moved from the Bosch to the Kapex, I have to say I much prefer the Kapex handle, as it allows you to cut ambidextrous while keeping your body centered on the saw, which is especially helpful for me, as a righty, when the keeper cut is to the right of the blade.
I have both the Bosch 12" Axial Glide saw and the Festool Kapex. In terms of accuracy, I haven't found anything that beats the Kapex. I often use the Bosch on site for trim work and such, but it has torsion movement in it, some of which is the flex in the blade but also from the arms themselves. I build high end cottages in Muskoka (in the top 10 vacation destinations in the world, FYI) and I am blessed enough to get to work with lots of different woods. Not sure what my next general purpose saw will be but I'm not convinced it will be another Bosch
Good, fair video review. I picked up the 12" version of the Bosch Glide and have not looked back.
Thank you Marc for doing this comparison!
Thanks for the video. I finally decided and picked up this saw for my tiny shop. I have several Irwin clamps and I made one into a hold down for this saw and it works great. I will admit that dust collection is a problem and I did fiddle around with a piece of thick rubber to make mine bigger but it didn't help much. I may look around and see if anyone else has tackled the problem in a video. Great video.
Thanks for the info. I'm getting this saw soon to replace my 15 year old Dewalt. Dan Pattison has a good video on improving the dust collection for the Bosch.
Nice review. The Bosch is nice; I almost bought it instead of the Kapex. The dust collection is what sold me on the Kapex, though. I've been using the saw in my house for the past 8 months on a long-running renovation. If dust collection isn't a big deal, or you're going to put a hood behind it, then the Kapex loses its main advantage.
One thing I do like on the Bosch is the additional capacity.
Also, FWIW, you can get a Forrest Chopmaster (and other blades)with the Kapex arbor size. It does cost something like $20 more, though.
Mark, I coupled this same saw with a $30 laser disc that replaces the left blade washer, and set the whole thing in my version of Jay Bates miter saw station. The laser is dead on accurate, and dust is no problem at all. Used it the other day for my first non-90 degree cuts and it was perfect.
I had the Bosch with rails, I added on larger rubber flaps for dust extraction and worked real well.
I have had my Bosch for one year now. I primarily build high end furniture, mantel clocks, and grandfather clocks. My biggest complaint with it is the inconsistent results. Especially on the wider cuts. I have found that it does not take much lateral pressure to cause the articulating arms to flex. This results in cuts that are out of square or not straight on longer cuts. The indents also have some slack and I have to make sure that I am actually back at 90 degrees after making a miter cut. This is not to say that I cannot get accurate cuts. But I do need to be careful about double checking that the saw is square to the fence, that I am careful not to put lateral pressure on the handle, and I cut slowly. Not sure that this is what I was looking for in a saw. I am really considering the Festool. As much as I wanted to fall in love with the Bosch, I kind of sensed that the relationship was going nowhere and that I was probably in denial to justify the purchase.
Having also auditioned both of these saws in my shop, and with much respect, you can pry my kapex from my cold, dead hands. The dust collection, kerf lasers, and clamp are just too good to let go of. When I broke the bevel handle on my Kapex (tried too hard to adjust it without releasing the lock) I thought I would replace the saw with the Bosch. I was wrong, and returned the Bosch within 2 days. I also rarely bevel, so the Kapex is stuck at 90 degrees until I decide to order some parts. It has been 2 years now. And that's perfectly fine with me.
Great comparison. I had this Bosch saw and hated it, was never happy to use it. Took hours to dial it in to cut straight/square cuts. It would never cut the same every time. Sometimes it was straight other times it was way off. It also stuck out into the room more than I would’ve liked, especially if you wanted to swing it to make 45 degree cuts it couldn’t be placed that close to the wall. I finally had enough of it and sold it! I bought a Makita XSL04 36v Brushless miter saw and never looked back! It’s an amazing cordless saw. Makita was the closest to Festool that I could find without breaking the bank. Makita makes miter saws fun again. 👍🏻👍🏻
Good video! Have had the same Bosch for 7 years and has never failed me, do have to recalibrate around every year but that maybe user error!
I liked the review, it seemed very objective. I had 2 thoughts about your complaints. Fastcap has a xero clearance tape that might fix the slight drop to the insert and be quickly and easily replaceable as need and a good machine shop could add an extension to that clamp, materials wouldn't cost much, it mostly be labor.
I like the Bosch too. Honestly, in 40 years of working in cabinet shops and job sites I’ve never once seen anyone use one of those clamps on a miter saw. I always assumed they include them as liability protection from litigation
I've been on hundreds of job sites and never seen a Festool in the field ever. But I love my Bosch.
@@iiiS4 this is totally wrong. Do you own Festool?
never really had the wall space to dedicate to a crosscut saw... but after watching this I'm kind of tempted to got get this one try and find a way to make it work.
The clamping system on mine is my biggest gripe. The dust collection is the second.
The ability to put this saw right up against a wall is a huge plus. Also the mechanism is super smooth.
I bought this saw as an upgrade to my 10" single bevel. Smooth movement, powerful motor, and dead precision. It went to work straight out of the box. No need to square up anything. I am the envy of my woodworking buddies.
This is unbelievably well timed, i've been tossing up between both of these right now. Thanks for the in depth review
keep replaying the video of their dust collection. That is where I still think the Kapex is worth it.
Is the dust collection worth an extra $1000 (my local prices)? Personally, I don't think so. I'd rather rig something up and have an extra grand in my pocket.
Then thats the proper choice for you. It depend on what you do and what breathing in sawdust is worth to you. I wish the Kapex was cheaper but there is no other saw on the market that is even close to its dust collection. It also is more than 20lbs lighter than the Bosch Glide, it has a built in miter angle finder, it has variable speed for cutting different materials, its laser actual works, and I prefer the vertical handle. I prefer to save my money in other ways. I don't spend $200 a month on Starbucks Coffee and microbrews. I drive a perfect condition 2004 truck and haven't had a car payment in over 12 years. So for me spending an extra $800 for a tool that does the mentioned items above isn't as big of a deal for me. Its for every person to decide what its all worth to them.
TheVelluch That's fair. The variable speed option would definitely be nice to have.
Hey there Marc. I have had the bosch axial glide miter saw for about 5 or 6 years now. I have the same impressions of the saw that you do. My biggest gripe is the dust collection. It is actually pretty poor if you ask me. I have made a few adjustments to try and improve the performance, but to no avail. I first replaced the rubber shoot with a much larger one.....no change. Then I made a larger shroud that sits behind the fences that allows the rubber shroud to pass through and at the end of the cut, creates a backstop. No change here either. I think the real issue is where the shroud is located. If you look at the Kapex, the shroud is right behind the saw blade. The Bosch unit appears to be several inches back. It blows my mind that the Kapex can be that much better at dust collection than the bosch. With that said, for the price difference and how I use my saw (shop setting) I love my bosch.
Yeah I noticed the same thing. Dust collection is one of those things that you REALLY need to think through in order to make it effective. Look at dust collection on just about any Festool tool and you'll see there's more to it than simply casting a big net and hoping for the best. Same thing with SawStop's dust collection when using their blade guard. It has to be a considering from the start of the tool's design and not an afterthought. So I don't have my hopes too high that I'l be able to get great dust collection from this thing. But I'm hoping to maybe get at least half way there. :)
Hey Marc! I think I'll keep my Kapex. The dust collection is so good and the hold down works great. I wish it had a bit more power but with the Ug stand and wings, it doesn't take up much of a foot print in my shop. The Glide would be my second choice...
Hey Marc, I have come up with a solution to significantly increase the amount of dust collection at the Bosch. If you are interested, I can shoot you my email address and tell you what I did. Since you are just starting to set up your new shop, it might be something you might want to incorporate.
I've been using the Bosch Glide in the field for just over a year. It is easily the best compound miter saw I have ever used and I've used many different brands over the last 20 years. It lives on a Kobalt folding saw stand in the back of an 18 foot box truck and gets rolled out on the job site. I was concerned about it staying true bouncing around in the back of the truck and to my chagrin that has yet to be an issue, it still cuts as true as the day I put into service. As for your problem with the Bosh clamp when I first bought them I had the same issue, until I called customer service, they told me just flip the lever on the back of the upper fence and slide it out till the clamp clears and re-lock it in the new position then when your done just slide it back to it's original position.
Good Vid. I've used the same Bosch 12" Glide Miter Saw for 5 years and its been great and never let me down.
Many new additions and improvements on the Bosch since you reviewed it back then - possibly your doing :)!
Hi Marc. Well I've been looking to upgrade my small 8" Bosch mitre saw for about 1 month, about a week ago i decide i was going to do it spend a bucket load of cash on the Kapex this weekend but on Friday i saw your vid and it confused me after 1 month of deciding and coming to a result you throw a spanner in the works, so i spent another 2/3 hours on you-tube looking at the Bosch and after weighing all the pros and cons up i've gone with the Bosch GCM12GDL cost £698 inc vat delivered it's the one with the laser, as it will be put in one place and stay theres is no problem about moving to job sites, so it was a no brainer plus I've saved myself £300/400 or you have, so thank you, i get the saw tomorrow and will be playing with it all day just to make sure its for me. Anyway just wanted to let you know your vid was just the thing a was looking for and i know you have had both so your a good person to listen to unless Bosch are paying you to say this is a top saw but i trust you 100% and all the other review say the same thing about it. So thank for saving me a bit of money for the wife to spend on windows blinds :( Cheers mate.
I wanted the Bosch but settled for the Hitachi. It can be had for less than $400 and has the same type of smaller footprint as the kapex and bosch. The handle is vertical but allows for both left and right hand use. So far I am very happy with it.
Love my Bosch GCM12SD. Lugging it up/down stairs or anywhere for that matter on site is not fun. Very heavy and awkward to carry. I do have the mobile stand for it too, and this is a must have for maneuvering it around. Great saw, have cut thousands of feet of molding as a trim carpenter and got mine on sale for around $520 and the stand for another $200 at HD.
Dust collection does have to be modified at the port. I have a Festool vac attached and I did need to extend the flare like the video to guide the dust into the suction zone.
Saw a video earlier today by one of the FOG members. It was on his personal youtube channel and he was trying out the FastTrack Zero Clearance Insert Tape. He showed the price was $5.00 and I think the package contained 5 strips, so at a buck a shot, maybe that would take up the minor dip without shimming and also provide your zero clearance at the same time. The strips were 2" wide and I think 16" long, so you trim to fit by application.
Hi there Marc, that toggle hold down will work just fine if you just slide the back fence out to the side 🙂 I have 10" saw with sliders, and very satisfied with its performance, it also looks like mine has got a bit better dust extraction than yours, but not the best...
Thanks Marc you may have pushed me over the edge, I have been eyeing one off at the local tool shop for months
If you take the upper fence off the Bosch saw you can use the quick acting clamp fine.
I just cut some of hight of the fence off, it works great with quick clamps.
Hey quick comment on the bosh clamp if you loosen the wing nut in the back behind the fence and slid it out the quick clamp works just fine then.
I have had mine for 8 years and am 95% happy with it,down side is it's hauled in my trailer and with the bit of movement it receives ,it needs constant adjustment
I personally recommend this saw
Great review, I've been using the Hitachi for almost a year (everyday) and it goes toe to toe with the Kapex and the Bosch .
I have a Hitachi 10" dual bevel miter saw and I had a helluva time adjusting it to cut square. It came out of the box not cutting square. I still like it because it's easy to set up, the laser guide works well and it cost me $300 brand new. I'm a carpenter with 42 years of experience, so I've used many a saw over the years. I do most of my work onsite.
I've got the Bosch and the DeWalt Flexvolt. The Bosch has been used for about 7 years and I can't keep it square, not to mention the detent lock tab is totally broken and a pain to get it to unlock. It's basically junk at this point. The flexvolt doesn't seem like it's going to wear like the Bosch because I can adjust the detents and the physical bolts that stop it at certain bevels. Even before the Bosch was worn, the Flexvolt is so much easier to use, especially the lever that locks it in place, both for miters and bevels. All I can say is I'm sold on the DeWalt saw and the ability to run it on batteries has saved me several times when power went out or they suddenly had to work on the electricity on jobsites.
Nice quick review. I have an old Ryobi 10" chop saw and am looking to replace it with a sliding compound saw. This one looks really nice.
The festool material clamp can be used on some other brand miter saw so if you like that you should see if it is compatible
Isnt the upper reference plate movable to use the quick clamp?
I Have this saw and love it, straight out of the box it was perfect. I purchased it at Home Depot for $325, they were closing them out to make room for new product. Also took my 10% for military discount, stole it! I work part time for HD on the merchandising team, if you actively watch and do walk throughs you can really get some great deals.
Could you make a fence which had the microjig dovetail tracks and which could then accept. their clamps to solve your clamping problem?
Great review. Regarding the clamp. Honestly, if you're going to invest into something like this, you're more than likely going to build a Miter Saw station and put in a good Miter fence with a stop block which means you'll never use that clamping system again to make sure your piece doesn't go anywhere again. Plus when you're doing the same measurement cut over and over again, that where a stop block on a fence really shines, so I wouldn't say this is a major flaw. The only thing that's a down side is definitely the dust collection, which honestly, Festool does so well. I just really hate the handle grip to the Kapex which I think everyone except true loyalist Festool guys would agree on.
we bought a Bosch to use at work. 4 good carpenters using it for a month. We ended up taking it back. The fence wouldn't stay square and the bevel would creep down as the lock wasnt strong enough to hold the head if it wasnt at a stop.
We didn't replace it with a kapex because of the motor issues they have. I have a kapex and I like the saw a lot but I think with the amount of trim we cut in a day the motor wouldnt last long at all so advised against it. For a one man show it's great. For a whole crew its just too expensive.
I am waiting for the new makita front rail miter saw to come to stores so I can check them out
Hi Marc, great video, thank you for your time. Not sure if you are aware (you probably are though) the fences also slid out and may aid in the use of the fast clamp. Thanks again, I am all in on this saw.
Seeing AvE's review of the Festool circular saw... I doubt any of their other tools are any better internally.
Idiot festool is a lot better than this
If AvE says its shit mate then its SHIT!
Just a note on Forrest. They will drill any kind of holes necessary for your saw. I'll bet they have a solution for Festool. I have a Felder combination machine with 30mm arbor and locking pins, and they drilled out that format and it works great.
Do you need a sliding mitre saw if you have a track saw and table saw?
If you live near a Menards, they sell the Bosch and they regularly have 11% rebate sales. I've also seen the saw itself on sale there. I haven't picked on up yet. I'm waiting for a project where I need a miter saw.
Woodwhisperer, is the infeed and outfeed table flat to the center table? My center table is elevated in conjunction to the Indeed and outfeed
there are several things that could be improved about the kapex (mainly the depth stop and the handle), but in my experience the bosch glide wobbles a lot more. also, it is a lot heavier. i would say theres a lot of room for improvement in the miter saw world.
I've had the same Bosch GCM12SD in my shop for a year now and cringe every time I use it. Unlike the Festool Kapex, the Bosch doesn't have soft start so unless you've got a death grip on the handle, it really jumps when you pull the trigger. The back fence is also odd and once allowed a cutoff piece to fling back with enough force to shatter the dust collection hood. It was all replaceable, but shouldn't have happened. I too use a Forrest Chopmaster blade as the Bosch blade that came with it had about 20 thou wobble. I'll buy a Festool Kapex before the end of the year and put the Bosch on Craigslist.
Hi mark don't disagree with anything although in the UK the price difference is a lot less about £60-£100. I still went for the Bosch because of something you didn't mention which is the increased capacity. My previous machine was the Makita LS10, one of the original (over 10 years old) but the Festool could not beat the capacity as a shop machine. When I can afford it I will replace the Makita with the Festool Kapex for job site work.
As for the dust there are some suggestions on u-tube for home made solutions, which I will be applying next week, a simple measure using an old inner tube. Also I've had mine for over a year now so needed to get a spare blade whilst the original was being sharpened. I opted for a blade with90 tips and I found the dust problem got worse. So blade choice has an influence on the amount of dust generated.
Keep up the good work.
A fellow lover of Festool stuff
David
I'd been drooling over this saw for awhile and got lucky and found one on Craigslist that had never been used that included the gravity rise stand. Got the whole setup for $600 and then sold the stand for $200 and made a miter station. I'm like you in that I don't do bevel cuts so I torqued the bevel tension nut all the way down so I know it will stay true at 90 degrees. Made a zero clearance insert ala John Peters vid and it is perfect.
Fwiw, I have a different model of Bosch and it just took a bit of work on a belt sander to get that Festool clamp to fit. Feels bad to start cutting away material on a brand new $100 clamp but it fits well now and it’s great to use like you said.
The problem I have with the Bosch is the weight - it is hernia inducing. I leave mine permanently attached to a mobile miter saw stand in my shop but even on that the weight has caused it to topple over. Fortunately the saw is strongly built and there was no significant damage. For onsite jobs I use either my Hitachi 10 inch or Hitachi 12 inch dual bevel miter saws - they are both accurate and portable. The Bosch has tremendous cutting capacity and is very accurate for cross cuts but the motor position limits bevel cuts, and compound miter cuts are not always precise.
I understand you mostly do 90 degree cuts, can please explain the function of the bevel part of a mitre saw, maybe in a video. I have a 12" double Bevel compound mitre saw & haven"t used that feature yet. I"ve replaced all the baseboards,did a few wainscoting jobs and have just begun crown moulding.
I have got this one and made exactly the same experience except that I had big issues with the Laser. I needed to replace it soon after I bought it and even though I have spent hours with it I didn't manage to adjust it so that it is actually pointing where the cut will finally be. Main reason for buying it was the larger capacity than the Festool and the integrated support. BTW: this machine is produced in China whereas Festool still produces in Germany or at least Europe...
I have the green Bosch PCM 8S (euro) and it has a button to quickly solve it from the screw threads, for quick setting
I had the 12" Bosch, and 2 months out of warranty the motor blew. I like the Makita, and I love the slow start it offers.
Isn't the clamping compatible between the Bosch and festtool? So just use the quick clamp from festtool on your Bosch?
The clamp is not as bad as it sounds. Large adjustments are made in the back with the clamp shaft. You slide the clamp in after you place your piece on the table. The pressure you create when tightening keeps it in place.
yes ..but does the blade wobble? does the head move wile fully extended?
hi Bob here am carpenter from Ireland I just bought this saw with dual lasers.i find my saw has a blade wobble on start up and one laser (left) is blocked by the blade as u bring it to the wood.can u say if it's in all the saws.i rang bosch they ordered new shaft to see if it's fixable
I own this Bosch saw: I put the Kapex hold down clamp on this saw; it works and is sooo much better then the Bosch. I also put the Kapex rubber shroud on this saw using a zip tie. Again works much better. Dust collection - well this is not really fixable. I use a Festool shop vac, with large 36mm hose, and even with the Festool boot it's not very good.
Great review! The fence will slide over to give you clearance for that Bosch aftermarket hold down, which seems pretty cool. I’ve got this miter saw, but haven’t as yet unboxed. I’m really looking forward to getting it out. Thanks for the review.
With a bit of grinder work I fitted the Festool clamp on the bosh and it works great
I love this saw! I've had it in my cabinet shop for five years now with no issues. You do need to pull it out from the wall a little more in order to make compound cuts.
Hi, I'd like to have your advice. I'm undecided between makita ls1219l and kapex festool. I would like to make a good purchase.
Have you tried extending the back guides out for the quick release? and or removing it altogether? That should give you enough room for it to work like you want it to.
By the back guide I mean the top guide is movable you can extend it out on either side, and or remove it leaving the bottom part.
Not a Bosch chop saw fan only because the side to side movement when fully extended. Has very cool features.
Looks like a Diablo 80 or 90 tooth blade. Which do you recommend. I have the 10” Bosch Glide.
Is the Delta saw the same as the Bosch or it's the same design but different action
Do you need the higher fence ? It looks as if the quick release clamp would work if you could remove the fence extension.
You can slide the top part of the fence further out from the saw. In fact you have to for some bevel cuts. There's a little red lever on the back of the fence to unlock it. Then I suspect the quick clamp will fit.
I enlarged the dust collection shroud using a motorcycle tube. The rubber is thick enough to keep its shape and gives easily if it comes in contact with the work piece. Another gentleman welded stainless tube that had a 2" ID for way better flow. Found hist mod using a google search.
I have the same saw with the same sawblade and I love it. The only thing I don't like is that it weighs like 80+ pounds so it's kinda a pain to move around, but for a dedicated shop saw, it's perfect.
With over 55 years experience and having used and owned various chop saws, I can not speak highly enough about the Festool Kapex. I think that it is worth every penny!
Got the bosch 12 inch glide an it is superb to any other slide saws,, thank you againg robert bosch
Bought the Ten inch glide knowing my dewalt twelve inch was on the frits. I bought the bosch on a sale so it was boxed for almost a year befor the dewalt died. I was so excited to finally unbox this GLIDE. So after a few hours had this thing all set and matched up to my sawhelper stand. While trimming a bonus room in a garage (with mdf most forgiving material ever) was having trouble making my miters match on the door trim. Went back to the saw probable ten times to make a miter?? I thought it was me for about an hour thinking WTF!!! So what I found out is the positive stop on the glide, depending which way you lock them there about a half to quarter degree off from one another. Meaning a full degree at times for a miter. Giving the saw the benefit of the doubt I went to ever store in town ( four that have this saw) and did the same test. EVER BOSCH WAS THE SAME AS THE POS I OWN!!!!!!!>>>>>> Happy ending I bought the Kapex and now have a new boat anchor
could you borrow a delta cruzer and compare those? looking to replace my craiglist harborfreight saw
The Bosh is beautifully smooth and has performed great for me. Especially with a quality blade, zero complaints. .
Hey, have you ever tried putting a hex screw into the top of the clamp then using a drill with a bit to raise and lower it?
The festool clamp works on the bosch and you can purchase it separately.
Are you really sure?
@@heinrichjager3855 are you really sure you want to know?
@@Mario7p I bought the saw and the clamp piss me, so yes I am. ;)
Dust extraction on Bosch is absolutely horrible. I tried extending the shroud with some masking tape, duct tape, etc., with very poor results. The 90 degree elbow where the extractor hose connects doesn't probably help either. It just shows how many power tool companies simply don't consider dust extraction an important issue. And that's one of the things that make Festool tools stand out. Is that worth paying 2x the price? It's all relative. How much is preventing respiratory issues worth?