AFTERMARKET LS HEAD TEST-STOCK CATHEDRAL PORT VS 10 SETS!
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- WHO WINS? FULL AIRFLOW & DYNO RESULTS-ULTIMATE LS HEAD TEST. 11 SETS OF LS CATHEDRAL HEADS. How much hp can stock LS1 heads make? Do ported stock heads make as much as after market heads? We tested more than a dozen sets, but this video included the best 11 heads. We measured port and chamber volumes, airflow in cfm from .050-.700 lift and then HP & Tq on the dyno. Full specs, airflow and power are supplied in detail.
All I have to say is: WOW. The sheer amount of work it would have taken to do this is crazy. THANK YOU!
It was a lot-I didn't even include all of the heads in this video (cuz they were the same)
I agree. Unbelievable workload.
Lot of work....the kind I would live to do!
This the kind of testing everyone wants to see, but very few have the resources & contacts to pull it off.
You should have seen the sbf tests he did back in the day. Absolutely insane!
A few things:
1. This channel should have 1M subs. Every day is another interesting video and this one was amazing. I mean the sheer time and expense of conducting these tests is staggering, but Richard delivers the info in a free 20 min video
2. It's funny as hell that they are all basically the same. Gear heads have been searching for the secret cylinder head forever.
3. I was in the engine business until about 2010 and just started to get interested again this year. The amount and quality of aftermarket parts has exploded, as has the amount of actual scientific information. Pretty remarkable
He doesn’t hide the fact that most of these are magazine tests from years ago, but he does a great job of packaging them nicely into a video format full of good info.
If this were the 1960s and 70s you would be right. There should be 1M subs. Unfortunatly because the laws got so strict on things like street racing and emissions ect that the boys have lost interest. It's become too complicated. Sensors everywhere, computers everywhere radar everywhere.. The government has nutered the sport.
@@TractorWrangler01 I don't think this is correct. Check out 1320 video or the Cleetus MacFarland channels
@@Frostekzz Richard actually did the tests. He's just revisiting them. He is also doing more tests currently. The cam test he did recently was great.
There's hardly 2 percent difference between any of these heads, telling me that the limiting factor here was the intake system air flow, or fuel delivery which was maxed at about 620 hp capacity.
I believe that Richard understands these things because, he himself, is also a machine. There's no other explanation for this gigantic amount of testing in every video. He's not human!
I'm glad to see this channel grow. It is one of the most informative and interesting engine performance channels on UA-cam.
Single handidly making head builders step up their game.
2 handsidly
Alright Flanders lol
This must have taken a very long time to do! Thank you, Richard.
Very!
Once again you shatter the bs. The best reason to watch your shows. You give the facts and let them be what they are. Fact or fiction. Keep making your videos and I’ll keep watching. Thank you.
you deserve a Nobel peace prize for tireless work .thank you too much .
THANK YOU RICHARD!
There is a great article that was published around 2001 that details the developments of the LS6 head from the LS1 head, and why GM had to make certain choices and decisions to balance power vs exhaust management and emissions regulations. They learned some things from Lingenfelter, specifically that atomization as a result of the spray pattern from the injectors onto the back of the valves was not as influenced by the intake port design as they had originally thought. They further refined the port profile to reduce air restrictions while being careful not to disturb the spray pattern and this allowed them to increase the hp from 345 to 385 to 405 from 2000 to 2002 (with slightly different cam profiles), although they were still using pup cats after the exhaust manifolds to help comply with LEV restrictions. GM produced one hell of a head, knowing full well there was plenty left on the table, but not able to capitalize on it because of the cost of producing CNC'd heads vs cast. In the end they still had to produce a product that was cheap, met LEV regulations, and then made decent HP.
TEA did with a 2.055" valve what Mast did with a 2.165" valve. my hats off to TEA! it seems to be a clear leader in this test.
All I got out of this is save your money and port stock heads. And that every company is making the same product.
Just the test I was looking for. Very informative and helpful. Great Work Richard. Keep'em comin
daaaaaaaaaaaaamn, this dude never sleeps. lol
Yeah deff Richard is a busy dude
Great info here, Richard. All these head swaps have to be pretty time consuming. The fact these heads are within 1% of each other aside from the stock baseline head is amazing considering some are very expensive and some are kinda cheap cost wise.
Richard your channel is really growing! I remember the tests you used to do for the Mustang magazines 20 years ago and always thought it would be exhausting to run all of those tests (shootouts). Great idea to save that info and present it in the UA-cam format. Hats off to you, sir!
thnx-I need to post the Ford head tests
I wanna see how the Frankenstein heads (Ported 243 Stg 2, and F110s) stack up. 😍
You have done the work to answer the questions we all had. Congrats to you sir.
I’m really amazed about the ported 243 heads. Such a great bang for the buck.
if you were going to write an enciclopedia, you're definitely on the right path... analisys, conclusions & appendix. very well done again. love from Italy
I'm not an experienced LS person hardly at all other than repairing stock engines. The engine I build for racing are still the same old small block Chevy and sometimes big block. Dirt track and drag racing. I have been collecting ls parts, blocks, heads, and whatever comes with. I scored a set of cnc procomp ls1 heads one time and never used them YET. I think they are the same thing you just test and if so, I'm very pleased. I'm pleased because I'm planning a Na build of a all out racing ls engine. 16 to 1 tunnel ram engine. I haven't seen any all out na ls engines yet but I'm sure there are plenty. Thanks for your hard work, it's great.
this guy does everything I would never have the time or money to do
I am amazed at the TEA ported 243 heads numbers ,well within most builder budgets
Great information on how to spend more money, but do it wisely. Thanks for sharing your knowledge so others can play along.
I see Dr. Richard Holdener is at it again!!
Man you turn the wrenches for sure.
I just happen the have the 230 AFRs on a 427, they seem to work great for me.A ton of info here for sure.....
Hi, Here is an idea for a test.
Chevy says that there is a limit to the amount of overlap that will produce more power with a street-type exhaust system due to the lack of pressure wave tuning. Test "stock with mufflers" vs "open headers" varying only the overlap from stock to typical drag race values.
If chevy spent millions and tells you that's what they found....why redo it?
Almost 70000 mr ! Awesome, you'll be in the 100K range in no time
John Woodworth : Correct me if im wrong but isnt this about the only time it wasnt squirrels John....?
@@deanstevenson6527 he must have slipped up.
Or possibly reconciled his differences with squirrels?
@@deanstevenson6527 AWESOME comment
@@deanstevenson6527 the squirrels made him do it....... yes, I blame the squirrels
thnx for the support
For me it would either be TFS, MAST LS3 SMALL BORE or TEA ported factory casting. I would also probably opt for the stage 1 instead of the stage 2 from TEA though. Thank you for all your hard and amazing work.
Great video! Always respect the amount of detail you go into.
Just as a future video suggestion, ls injector shootout/ de capped vs stock vs flex fuel . Think it might make for an interesting video.
I was hoping for something like that myself
No surprise that TFS 235’s lead in Avg HP/TQ and right there at Peak HP and tied for Peak TQ with the larger AFR 245’s. Brian Tooley did an amazing job designing some of their heads and this goes to show that on smaller notes that consumers should pay attention at the air flow numbers at mid lift and not focus just the flow at higher lift. Hotrod Mag did a similar test years ago and TFS 235 led in all categories too.
same test-I did that for Hot Rod
Thank you for all the work you put into making these videos. Thanks to you I’m in the process of building my own 408 stroker for my Toyota pickup. Keep up the amazing content!
Modern engines already flow so well no surprise there aren’t huge gains to be had like in engines of old.
I have a 5.3l from a 2001 Yukon, and it sets in my 64 C10 , and because of you Richard , without any knowledge what so ever , I am confident that my setup is screwed... lmao... I now know that my heads need replaced or massive upgrades and the cam that I want to run will not work for the application that I am going for and this has made me realize that I need to throw a set of remote gt45 turbos and just let it eat. ( after ring clearances and valve springs and replacement head gaskets along with lifters.... oh and an electric water pump...lmao) thanks for giving me the confidence on this new platform to know that when I do something to the motor that if I don't do more safety than I think is needed then all I have is to blame myself.... ) because you my friend have shown me the proper and most efficient way to make a LS based motor live and make HP... thanks again for all you do!!!
your videos are excellent man. a person can confidently build something spectacular by using all the things you share for free. great work👍
Honest, factual and very helpful!
Man you put the work in for sure! Poor tear motors lol keep up the great information and hard work it’s going to really pay off! 👍💯
Wow, you are a legend. Thank you for putting so much time into this video. All the power fiends love your work.
Thank you very much!
You are the open and honest source.
try to be
Overall Top 3 from what I am seeing for avg. power, peak power, peak tq, and avg. tq :
TSP 237
TFS 235
Mast LS3
Did you even see the AFR's?
I love the honesty about the pro comp stuff, ringer set
One thing that was holding back the power on the aftermarket cylinder heads was the intake lift on that cam (.617). How much lift you can benefit from, directly correlates to valve diameter. For a good flowing set of heads like these aftermarket sets, you'd want a lift-to-diameter ratio of .30:1. Giving you an ideal intake lift close to .650 on some of these heads. I'd love to see this test done with lift optimized for the bigger valved heads, since the smaller valve heads won't lose power from too much lift, they just won't benefit.
I know first hand that the AFRs in this video are for a max lift of 650 and the Trickflows a max lift of .600 per the manufacture
I don't trust the lift-to-valve-diameter ratio very much.
-- If you have a small port with a fat valve job, the setup will work differently.
-- The D/L ratio I trust is 4:1 + the seat width.
-- Also, if you have different mathematical definitions for a given cam profile, using additional "Useless lift" can have a different outcome with a square engine vs an oversquare engine.
-- Bolt it up and run it on the dyno, buddy.
@@baby-sharkgto4902 The max lift on those Trickflows is based on the spring they send them with.
That was an excellent comparison! Thanks Richard.
Cheers😊
Bloody top job Richard, much appreciated mate 👍🏻
Great videos, I hope you do another book about engine combos with this updated information ( LS only). I'm planning on putting the summit stage 4 cam, in a 2008 manual Corvette. It's going to be a beast. Thanks man.
I may been way off base, but when planning my 385 stroker build, I studied 350, 383&400ci dyno graphs, and it seemed the peak power dropped off faster on a 383, with the same type head , compared to a 350ci. That's what lead me to the 220cc aluminum heads, it's been in storage for years, (I had a series of disasters, I moved, then the house burned DOWN!) But hopefully with a cam upgrade, the TQ down low should be good, with the longer stroke, and hopefully power should keep climbing to around 6500, insted of around 4500- 5000, I know there are alot of unconsidered variables, even different dynos, different engines, and I'm comparing somewhat stock engines stroked, to 383, my engine is obviously a notch or three above that, forged everything, studded, balanced, I just need a good roller cam up upgrade, I have the biggest comp nos hp, flat tappet, it's not even a race engine! But sometimes maybe a trip down the local 1/8, I have considered the trade-offs, I now need to find a deal on a T-56, or a TKO 5speed, I was going to try the stock t-5, but no point in breaking it! I should exceed the tq specs by 2-3 times, and then a 3.73 gear for my 12bolt, since I have 28" tires, I have considered a 4L80, but it would kill me to swap to auto, in my 88 formula, I may put this engine in something else, it is fact, the potential is between the heads and cam! Great video!
10 sets of head. Just wow. I would have changed career after the 3rd head replamcment.
Thanks Richard good to see the factory 243 heads ported make good power and torque half the price for me to get my 243 cnc ported than buying a new set of heads thamks.
I'm shocked that this video doesn't have well over a million views.
Great video! Thanks for all the work
Would love if you could put the cu.in to litre conversion in text when you edit these videos. Best engine channel on YT, I have learned more than I will ever need to know. Thank you mr. Holdener! Love from Norway.
THE 408 IS 6.68 LITERS
Great work Richard. I really enjoyed this video, tons of information as always.
Thank you.
Another fantastic video. I just can't understated how you pump these out so quickly
Old tests.
He doesn’t hide the fact that most of these are magazine tests from years ago.
Yep, 10 years ago for this one.
nothing to hide
@@richardholdener1727 Nope, nothing to hide. Good catalog of tests. 👍👍👍
I’d like to see this same test done with a big cam and super Vic. I feel like this setup was only going to make about 625 hp no matter what because of the cam and intake restriction. A cam and intake that makes power to 8k+ will really show what head does what.
Rich your videos are awesome. Heres a curve ball for you. How would someone young get into the industry to be involved in the awesome stuff you get to do? A lot of people are envious of your job and the toys you get to play with lol. If you dont have any direct advice, let's hear about how you yourself got the job or jobs that lead you to be here and making these awesome videos. To me that's just as interesting as learning about engines so maybe food for thought for a future video? Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this channel.
I wrote my first story by accident for Turbo magazine-just kept doing it
Great job 👏 Your work is greatly appreciated 👍
Hell yeah 😎 5 am squad
4 am in Alberta Canada 🇨🇦 🐿🐿
only 3 here in cali
John Woodworth : no way.How does that work? Its 11.09 pm here in New Zealand..Next youll be telling me the world is round and Im at the bottom of it or something....
@@deanstevenson6527 no way the world is round I believe it's a pyramid lol
Those procomp heads were definately hand finished.
But... It does go to show what a little TLC is worth on any head.
Finished chambers, blend VJ, bowls, very easy basic stuff really.
If they were a set of ringer heads. It makes you wonder why they dont just program that spec in to their cnc.
@@Apachefog great point
A lot of these heads were great. I'd take a close look at the AFR 245's, TFS 235's, TSP, and the LPE heads since they're dedicated castings. I like the LSXRT intake on a cathedral head because it gives you long straight runners. Plus, it's noisy and fun.
The TEA heads are good too, but I'd want to really know how thin those OEM castings have been machined.
The MAST heads are good when you look closely at 5500 RPM, since you get to use the LS3 intake. Excellent choice.
Awesome video! Exactly what I’ve been waiting for, this should make shopping for heads for my 6.0 way easier.
Great content. Can't wait for the deep dive analysis video!
Thank you for your hard work and expertise and one of these days I may change mychange my heads out to 1 of these set such a heads now at least I have an idea what I'm looking for I'm looking for thank you very much
Great test, Richard! I would love to have seen a set of 243's ported by Elliot'sPortworks, Lloyd does some great work, check him out! He's an amazing guy to deal with also!
Now we need a bang for the buck comparative chart
Awesome work! Like one stop shopping for all us Gearheads...
Ton of work there. I dug up an old set of RHS pro elite 11° 225cnc heads. Never found data on them but liked the design. Should be as good as the newer heads. Have great ptv clearance.
I think Mast made RHS heads for a while-those r good
Thanks for sharing. I’m really looking forward to your daily updates.
AMAZING work, thank you!!!
It’s been a wile man catching up on your videos keep it up man
Thank you, Richard, for all the great information, sweat, hard work & $$ you do! Bravo!
Awesome!! Thanks Richard, for all this work you are doing for the community. How about ls3 vs ls7 intake and heads comparison? Keep it up!!
those are different motors
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 06 gto ls2 with ls7 intake and heads, and a TSP 220-220/ 600-600 115 lsa and the car feels with a monster torque. All I did was refreshing the bottom and heads , intake, cam swap.😁
reason why those procomps make so much power is because the runner is way smaller than the others, if a head flows the same as another head but is much smaller that = more air speed and will make more power.
also pretty sure the mast small bore has a 2.08 intake valve, as far as im aware thats the biggest valve you can fit on a 3.9" bore 5.7L ect
Thank you and your team for all your hard work on this real good information thanks
Thank you. I think the TFS235 won pretty clearly.
For average power, yes, but procomp had higher peak power and torque and had a smaller port volume which would make it more responsive.
All the heads are so close it doesn’t really matter.
Matvey Kulgavyy is go TFS or Texas Speed over Procomp.
TSP
Good stuff, lot of hard work gone into making these videos keep it up ! And if you can do a research and test dimpled, rough, polished intake ports to see what makes best HP.
Binge watching Richard @ 2Am Love the video! Keep it up man. Love your info can't get it nowhere else!
I am considering buying a truck, and want max Torque. Looks like the Trick Flow would be a good choice, considering Average Torque.
Looking to see if you've done a "Throttle Body " test. Comparing a CNC to a standard and a stock vs a larger 103mm (ish.) On the same long block combo. Oh an let's see a BBC or Ford big block , for a change.
Keep up the great work
I would Love to see LS 408 High compression vs LS 408 Turbo
First thank you for all you do for the hot rod cumunity, after watching the video, and mostly repeat performance s I wonder if the intake was influencing (restricting) the test numbers. You would think there would have a little more of a spread between the best and worst unless there was a restriction somewhere else, would be interesting to see a better flowing int or bigger throttle body would change the spread. Thanks again for all you do, keep up the good work.
neither the intake nor tb were restricting this motor
It's always amazed my that the PR V8 guys are all about getting the best aluminium heads, aftermarket, ported, big valves. Even at the enthusiast level. Yet in the 'Import' JDM / Euro world, so many enthusiasts barley even consider it. Sure they're are fewer 'aftermarket' castings for non-US engine's
However with CNC programs, it can be close to the best $1000AUD you spend in an engine build. Especially on a boosted application, it's easy power at lower boost, heat and lag levels. so much win.
Great test.
Only reason most people like boosted jap import cars is the easily attainable cheap easy peak hp. That's why in car forums/groups its so easy to look like a hero. Do something different to the rest of the sheep and get better results
The stock twin cam 4 valve Japanese heads easily out flow all of these heads even with much smaller bores, that's why you don't see aftermarket heads. I'm not familiar with euro but if they are twin cam 4 valve then same story.
@@baby-sharkgto4902 not even close. Only a handful of stock Honda heads flow past 300CFM stock. Most 500cc ish per cylinder 4v Japanese heads are in the 220-250cfm
manitoublack their are not feeding the same bore size. Divide airflow by cc and a 4v head will kill a 2v
Richard this was a great test however there are a couple things.
First of all it's great you used the AFR 245cc head.
However this head does not work that well on a 4.030 bore. It needs a 4.125 bore size at least for max potential due to valve shrouding and also it was designed for 427+ engines.
I'm surprised it did as well as it did though.
The trickflow 235 head was properly sized for that size engine although, Trickflow recommend this head be used for 416-427 engine because of the larger bore.
Their 245 head recommends a 4.155 bore for max results.
Please do this test again on a 427 or larger LS engine. Please!!!!!
Oh and also include the trickflow 245cc head too.
Good to see you used the FAST 102mm intake. Great match. This is one of my favourite tests you have done so far.
I think I pointed out smaller AFR head would work
@@richardholdener1727 yeah you did.
I wish you used the AFR 235 head instead of the 245 head.
If you read around the forums there is a great debate between the Trickflow 245 and AFR 245 head and which one is better etc.
It's never been settled.
On Paper the trickflow appears better but is it really?
I have a set of AFR 245cc which have been customised by Tony Mamo but am waiting on my engine to be built.
@@mrmysterious6006 I like Trickflows and have their GenX 225s and they're great. I recently purchased AFR 245's (wont be here till Tuesday) I would have probably went with Trickflow again (just because I'm familiar with them) for the 245's but Trickflow only offers 245's in a 6 bolt and I didn't want the extra bolt bosses sticking out looking all weird if not using them so that pushed me to the AFR 245's.
Hey Richard, how about an LS, N/A, daily driven engine combo shoot out?
Awesome work. Would love to see an extensive in depth Header test one day! Things to note, overall design, diameter, length to collector, collector length, port matched to heads vs non port matched maybe on a 5.7 ls1 :P GTO motor
I think there is already one.
I tested lots of headers-including adjustable ones that I made, have not run across big differences
I'll just have to go watch that video then :p love your work keep it up👍
Bravo.. Excellent video.I went with rectangular AFR 230cc head on my 408.
Great test. I know the prices have probably changed since the test, but a bang per buck comparison would have been good.
i had pricing in the original story
My set of ported and polished 706 heads compare very closely in flow with the dart pro 1s and the Edelbrock LPEs. Same compression, 4.005 bore (402 stroker). I'm excited to get it back on a Dyno and see what it makes. Last chassis Dyno read 350/350 and I believe it was reading way off according to my ricer math (one car ahead of my buddy with a 3100# 350-400whp 5.3 12.0x car vs a 4700# 402 truck one car behind). This video makes me feel better lol
Absolutely love the all the comparisons you do, my two cents is personally I would be really interested to know the actual cost of each particular head or any other comparison video as that what a lot of this comes down to for the average person.
i had cost in the original story done for Hot Rod
www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1012-ultimate-chevrolet-ls-cylinder-head-test/
@@richardholdener1727 Oh I did not know thank you for pointing that out!!
I think it would be intersting to see the ported ls1 heads vs the factory ls1 heads to try to see what they all did as far as porting, so I could try to duplicate it next time I take a stab at porting
look at the ported LS6 heads-ported LS1 are very similar
The Edelbrock LSR heads ported by race shops like BES Racing are good for 1100hp NA if you can get it compressor to move big air
Race Flow Development cuts a set for OMG 8k plus! RFD LSR for 480 ci LS or bigger. Short decks need not apply.
they pretty much all made the same power. so the limiting factor is likely the cam. the head flow on these units never reached their limits so the engine basically made all the power that cam could make. pretty sweet test. since we could put those heads on a flow bench and can see what their theoretic limits are then chuck a cam that is close to that in it then see who is truly big dawg.
Probably some of the limiting factor is cam but the real limiting factor is the C I. of the engine.
So the cheapest set of heads made the most power......now I remember why I bought 3 sets of pro-comps.......2)64cc ls3 ...1)64cc ls6, and they worked great on all 3 motors. .......
Damn , that's a lot of wrenching ! Great video .
it was
So what's best for the money, and what's best regardless of the price? Same question for Rec port heads. My application is a 6.2 LS3 in a Gen 5 Camaro with a forced induction future but N/A for now. Trying to keep low-down losses minimized, too, and I want "best" to be categorized as David Vizard might do so, so taking into account coefficient of discharge, swirl factor, and all that other stuff that paints the full DETAILED picture, rather than plain old raw flow numbers.
Come to grips with the fact that there is no BEST.
Any reason why the Texas Speed heads seem to peak at a higher RPM?
And this data is awesome, I have long had a excel sheet with a bunch of the "stated" airflow information but it is refreshing to see so many options tested independently. Nice to see most of the data is consistently below what's in my spreadsheet and I know all tables flow different so finding a fairly consistent difference at least gives me some confidence most manufacturers are giving fair flow numbers for their products.
Cleatus's had a LS1 in leroy and put a set of Texas speed cathedral port heads then got a 7.0 short block and installed those heads on it and yes it has twin turbos but I think he made 1300hp or so to rear wheels with those cathedral port heads on a 7.0.
lots of guys making 2K hp on cath heads
Awesome info thank you Richard.
Great video, thanks!! American ingenuity, amazing what people do when left to be free to invent and are not meddled with by an OCD government.
Would like to see a bb mopar head test. Also an engine build suited to a 4x4.
Awesome test
I’m here waiting on the 4.7L Dodge
There a reliable good running engine but you Prob won't see it anytime soon or at all where it's the oddball OHC v8 in truck lineup if it was a 4.7 hemi style engine prob would just like the GM 4.8
just add a cam and/or boost
You be waiting along time until the cows comes home or when pigs fly.
Sorry 4.7L Dodge has little fan fair & modern day Hemis aren't really Hemis at all. Dodge uses the Hemi name for marketing purposes. It sells a lot of cars & trucks. Hemis of now do make power but simply copies of LS platform..Hemis from the 60's & 70's had either hemisperical shaped combination chambers in the cylinder heads or dish in their pistons were hemisperical. Your best bet is to
buy a vehicle with a modern day Hemi in it 5.7L. 6.1L. 6.4L
4.7L are considered modern day
boat anchors just like GM 8.1L Vortecs which are not LS based.
Big aftermarket support for newer Hemis..& growing Fiat, Dodge, Chrysler currently have no intention
in future hybrids..Hemi name plate will be around for quite some time.
ngo about the only thing a modern Hemi and an LS have in common is that they are both 8 cylinders. The Hemi is definitely not a copy of the LS
I have been seeing a few people running the Chevy 3.4 Camaro engine modded with 3500 gen 3 top end claiming large gains but haven't seen Dyno numbers I think this is a good other guys run
Thanks this info was eye opening.