The higher polarising voltage of the Ai results in slightly stronger attraction of the membrane to the back plate. This results in a tighter sound in the bottom, and also more 2nd harmonic distortion through the spectrum which will add image density, brightness and harmonic complexity all up through the midrange, and tie the bottom to the mid to the top. The older mic with the lower voltage will have less attraction between the membrane and the back plate, which will mean more freedom and symmetry of movement of the membrane in the low end giving subjectively more roundness and generosity in the bass, therefore lower 2nd harmonic distortion stacking up through the mid resulting in less density, brightness and presence up through the mid, and therefore somewhat of a psycho-acoustic "disconnect" between the mids and the treble, which will actually make the picking sounds stick out more against the backdrop of a slightly less bright mic overall (this last bit is clearly confusing these guys as to which mic is "brighter"). The differences in the sound between the two mics is actually exactly as one would expect once one understands the mechanisms at play. The Ai is generally more upfront and forward; the older mic is more mellow, with more flow and generosity in the bass. The Ai mic sounds tighter, faster, and more damped and compressed in the lows. The "i" sounds slower, freer, and less compressed in the lows. The descriptions of all these people are confused...they can't seem to agree on what the mics are doing and which is brighter. The explanation given here is the correct one.
My first studio mic was (is) a Neumann TLM 193. Unbelievable tool. Bright and deep, but natural sounding. It's supposed to be an entry-level mic, but sometimes is the best one hands down. It shines on low-register percussion, voice, left-hand accordion or bandoneon, trombone... It was my only condenser for years, and I can't imagine any alternative that would have given me the same usability.
Very difficult to tell each mic apart. The Older mic (U87i) Has a more well rounded frequecy response, while the newer (U87ai) has the mid frequencies a bit hotter than the vintage mic, the newer mic also has a tiny bit Hotter signal. Both sound really really good, a crystal clean capture of the performance. Now If I could just be able to afford to buy all the Neumann Mic's I would be a very happy studio owner.
*I currently own a Neumann u87 **do7.pl/NMicrophone2** and after a little subtractive eq and slight eq bumps here and there I have actually preferred the 102 over it for many applications. Out the box it reminds me of a voice over mic with its presence and heavy low end. I don't get as much sibilance with it compared to my u87. I have used it for hip hop vocals with great results with my avalon 737. This mic is extremely small and can fit in the palm of your hands or pocket. I also sold some of my larger gear and purchased a duet for ipad. I am loving how my gear is getting more compact. I feel as though the technology is allowing for a great sound in much smaller devices without sacrificing quality.*
I have A U87AI. And love it sounds great. So glad I bought it. One question I have is don't ya think A 30 year old capsule and electronics won't be affected by age? That is probably most of the difference between them I would think.
Great shoot out. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a 87 and wanted to hear a sensible comparison. I preferred the vintage for the voiceover with its warmer top and slightly rounder bottom end, but for everything else, especially the vocals, the Ai wins for me, because lets face it, in todays modern production style we'll be pushing that top end sparkle even harder. And I love how everybody had a contradicting opinion. Another thing to consider is that the vintage mic has had 40 + years of spit hitting the capsule. After getting a 47 fet serviced many years ago, that can make a huge difference to the top end. So in conclusion, it'll be a new 87Ai for me without all the potential headaches of owning a vintage microphone. Cheers!
Great show! For my ears, the Ai is a hands down a winner. I can see how some preferred the vintage 87 for VO because of its slightly mellow sound compared to the Ai, but if you want mellow VO you may as well grab an EV RE20!
I loved the vintage U87i over the newer U87 Ai in all categories except for the voice over. To my ears the vintage captures the clarity of the original sound in far greater detail than the newer one. "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot". Neumann had the golden wand and now you can only get one of questionable condition on eBay.
Great production quality, Matt. I like the fact that they folks there had comments which is much more valuable than me listening on UA-cam. One last addition for future tests. Do a blind test with a "man on the street" with the samples, simply asking is one better than the other, same, which one. Your guests are trained engineers I am assuming, so they are the "expert" panel. For a future show, I would love to pit this Expensive Neumann against a budget under $150 mike and do the same test!
I liked the new one for the acoustic and the old for vocals and voiceover. My impression was the new one had greater articulation in the upper mids and the older one was smoother and more transparent. The articulation caught the small nuances of the guitar playing, which were diminished with the old mic. Depending on application, that effect could be exploited accordingly. Both vocal recordings sounded smoother and better balanced with the old mic without losing detail but reducing some of the sibilance and hard consonant sounds. Of course, this is all from listening through the speakers of my iPhone 11. 😂
I felt like there was a slight boost in the high frequencies of the Vintage U-87, it sounded clearer (On Guitar) but like a compressed clear sound, and on the AI it sounded like there was a slight boost in the lower frequencies but a smooth presence (male vocals), They both are close sounding , one can get away with recording with the other, however there is also a proximity difference where one sounded close than the other, The Vintage feels more of a live sound I believe its the Preamp, however Id have to test them with other Preamps to see if that's true, that's my opinion, it depends what you like better, to my ear I prefer the AI, as it seems a more modern sound and good all around mic.
I preferred the vocal using a U87i. Smooth and richer sounding, very similar to the U87i I recently purchased for over $4K US. I sold over 50 'new' U87Ai from 2010 - 2022, and auditioned them all. I can say very few of them I would keep for my personal use. I am using Neve/BAE 1073/1084s, and primarily D.W. Fearn and Hazzelrigg chains for voice. No one mentioned the guitar being out of tune! I found it more and more difficult to concentrate on the quality of the mic, but would have preferred the U87I in the long run, to mixing the guitar in a full mix. The guitar had a nice sound, and musician was very accomplished otherwise. My $ .02.
maybe it's the you tube's compression, but I felt there was huge difference with the sounds of the two mics. with first hearing I agreed with the british guy, on guitar definitely the vintage 87, on vocals, maybe the new one.. I'd probably prefer the old one if given the choice!
I have an AI and it's truly a great mic. In some occasions I prefer it over my C12 VR, which is my go-to mic for vox. Paired with a tube pre it sounds amazing. Detailed yet not harsh. When dealing with a sibilant voice (sometimes a problem with the C12), it saves the day.
Seeing that an older i would be very difficult to find, I'd be perfectly happy with the Ai in all these applications. The i sounded a little veiled to me in the "air".
nothing proved there then only these dudes need to get out more!
10 років тому
I think these kinds of test get much more interesting when they are double blind. Here, the way a couple of them describe the vintage mic - I think they would have preferred it if it were broken. Ana Sophie's observations where closest to mine, Stephen a close second. To me also the main difference is in the lower mids. To me the young engineers descriptions don't seem to fit the sonics at all. The vintage one is very clearly brighter with less low end. Probably due to some subtle distortion
Guys, as an engineer I am hearing a problem. maybe this is UA-cam video compression or something but on 02:42 you can hear the U87i just completely get trampled on digital distortion. I prefer the U87i myself, have worked for Unique Recordings & Hit Factory in NYC and Sony Studios. I tend to lean more tords the vintage series equipment, because thats how I was taught and raised with.. But I am completely shocked to hear such distortion in this test coming from both microphones, mainly at 02:42
Well I'm in love with the vintage one. Sounds better on guitar and singing voice to me. The new one was better for the vox. I feel the new 87 sounds a little bit compress on the melody compare to the old one.
I tended to agree with what stephen had to say about the new u87 had smoother lows and that bit more presence/attention seeking sound. Also sounded slightly compressed. I guess everyone has preferences
liked the newer one more on guitar (more body), and on the voiceover: (more clarity & definition) and the older one on the vocal, less defined highs that make it sound more mellow which seemed to fit the theme of what he was singing - differences are so small, I would go for the cheaper one :)
Sole issue I have with the ai is the 5dB less headroom compared to the old one - more then once I had to increase distance more than I acutally wanted to avoid clipping on vocals.
The new one sounds scooped in the mids. The old one sounds solid top to bottom although perhaps less bass response. I also preferred the vintage on everything but the voiceover.
For me this very well made video confirms what I allready thought. The 87i "erases" useless informations. So on voices you just get what you need. For the guitar (rich in hi-mid) the 87i still erases extreme informations but in this case these informations are essential. So I prefer the ai for guitar thru I don't like any 87's on guitars. If I would have to record a folk guitar with a Neumann I'd use a KM.
what can we take away from all this? as much as gear nerds insist they know their gear inside and out and have DEFINITIVE opinions on every little thing from patch cables to vintage condenser mics, no one knows what the hell is going on...everyone's ear is different, everyone picks up something completely unique...you ask alan parsons why he likes his old boxy overheads, he stares at you for a second and says something vague about "how nice they sound"....he knows how to work them and that's what it boils down to
Sounds to me like the new U87Ai brings out more bass and lower mid, and the U87i gives outstanding high mid/low high detail. I'd imagine the U87i to offer a lot more to a nicer sounding, stronger voice. U87Ai for proximity-effect voiceovers.
George Merrill... thanks for getting a good vocalist and a GREAT SONGWRITER! Anyways. I liked the older U87 because when he gets louder the microphone tames the sound so it doesn’t hurt my ears!!!!!!! I’ve noticed this with a lot of older mics like the km84,u87,414eb... the newer microphones allow your ears to bled. Wtf!
The older one on the acoustic guitar but prefer the Ai model on vocal duties. I have an Ai model from roughly 14-15 years ago (retro perhaps??) that I use on my voice.
@MrRobWhite I would use the two channels on your awesome Vintech 273 on the snare first and foremost, and the kick second. Kick and snare without a shadow of a doubt. Kick and snare the meat and potatoes of a good acoustic drum sound, and theres no doubt in my mind your Vintech/Neve will make them sound fantastic. With an 003, you can get a great overhead sound as long as you're using quality mics. Ive had great success using interface pres with good mics. Good mics-good mic pres-good sound.
Preferred the AI for sure on VO and guitar. Fuller and more rich in the mids, more tamed highs. The older one sounded a little thin. The AI has a closeness to it... feels more intimate. Maybe a tighter capsule pattern? The vocal performance seemed to benefit from the brighter sound.
Okay, that recording studio looked decked out and upscale, but something about it, the colors, the darkness, the pictures on the walls and decorating choices, I don't think I could record anything in a place like that. Anybody else get a weird vibe?
I find it interesting that I heard this exactly opposite of the guy in the black vest. And so did everyone else… I think he was confused which was which tbh.
both sounds good, u guys should check out a condenser called The Dark Light by Neon Man, my buddy got one off of eBay, different sound but definitely on par with these
Thanks for the video, Matt! The U87i has more highs and less mids than the U87ai. So to me the U87ai is a "playing-safe" mic, but U87i brings more presence. In the singing comparison the sound of tongue-turning-in-mouth is pretty apparent for U87i. Personally I'll pick U87i for solos but U87ai for anywhere I want to be conservative. Interestingly enough that AKG C414 went an opposite way that their older ones are low-key but newer ones are more and more aggressive.
Hard to define what it means to be "better" without some sort of a pre-existent chart or standard or whatever. It all boils down to personal preference and taste. I like the AI for the same reasons most ppl dislike it... And to me, "warm" means "not much treble". If the lower frequencies are there in equal or similar amounts, it's easy to tame the highs to match both mics. And vice versa, you can boost the higher end of the other. I much rather cut than boost, tho...
Oh God, now I have to agree, the u87i sounds much better. The "sssss" are incredibly smooth, and its warmer. At the loudest part, the 87Ai sounds harsh (2:18) (a thing that I've noticed with newer Neumanns), while the 87i sounds sweet (2:51). I downloaded the files and did blind tests a lot of times. I got it right all the times. The difference is clear. No doubt anymore. I prefer 100% the 87i.
These shoot outs are crazy. I mean these guys are talking about how the newer 87 sounds like it may have a SLIGHT boost around 10k. My thing is, if you like that, then you are good to go. But if you don't want that then it takes 3 seconds to pull out a simple eq and dip at 10k. I guess what I'm getting at is...is the 0.3 db boost at 10k (or whatever slight frequency differences) that big of an issue? Not really.
I agree with Paul, mostly, and completely disagree with Stephen. On guitar, especially, these two mics sound very different and the new one is much brighter (sounds kind of scooped).
Maybe the audible differences relies on the age difference of everyone in this room. Also the damage to the ears overtime. I personally do like the old one but...I mean.. its like hearing the elephant in the room with headphones...
@PeteWojMusic if you were recording drums and you had 1 Vintech 273 and all your other pre amps were Digidesign 003 rack preamps, would you use the 273 as your O/H's?
Hi! You said the new one is operate in 60 volt and the old one is 46 volt, But on most desk, phantom power is +,-48v. So is it there is an issue with operating voltage, is there is a dirty trick about operating voltage?
They are referring to polarisation voltage, as opposed to input operating voltage, which is phantom power. The Polarisation is part of a DC conversion. The point is, arguably, that by increasing this conversion voltage, they have changed the sensitivity of the capsule (if my numbers are correct, by ~2db), and decreased the signal/noise ratio. This also may change the tone slightly.
I think calling a mic made in the 80's old is quaint. When I began studio recording old meant mics made in the 40's and 50's. A mic made in the 1980's is just a mic.
I'd love to think you're a friend of the guy you mention sitting on couch and you're just giving him a hard time. Otherwise, I'm guessing you're not used to speaking with great numbers of highly intelligent people. I found his speech entirely clear and articulate, I thought he was thinking about what he said before saying it, and he was simply a little eccentric as are many brilliant people. And he didn't say "low-mid" he said "low," the woman in the chair said "low-mid."
"U87 Ai, less bright"? Are you kidding me? Having a preference is one thing, but something's wrong with your ears if you think the Ai is less bright. One thing, that vintage 87 sounds great, but not all vintage Neumann U87's sound that good.
Nah and besides, you want the new one to sound like the old one? Easy... Throw a LP filter at 12Khz and there you go.. That's why it sounds "warmer" it has a low pass around there.
Nah and besides, you want the new one to sound like the old one? Easy... Throw a LP filter at 12Khz and there you go.. That's why it sounds "warmer" it has a low pass around there.
The higher polarising voltage of the Ai results in slightly stronger attraction of the membrane to the back plate. This results in a tighter sound in the bottom, and also more 2nd harmonic distortion through the spectrum which will add image density, brightness and harmonic complexity all up through the midrange, and tie the bottom to the mid to the top. The older mic with the lower voltage will have less attraction between the membrane and the back plate, which will mean more freedom and symmetry of movement of the membrane in the low end giving subjectively more roundness and generosity in the bass, therefore lower 2nd harmonic distortion stacking up through the mid resulting in less density, brightness and presence up through the mid, and therefore somewhat of a psycho-acoustic "disconnect" between the mids and the treble, which will actually make the picking sounds stick out more against the backdrop of a slightly less bright mic overall (this last bit is clearly confusing these guys as to which mic is "brighter"). The differences in the sound between the two mics is actually exactly as one would expect once one understands the mechanisms at play. The Ai is generally more upfront and forward; the older mic is more mellow, with more flow and generosity in the bass. The Ai mic sounds tighter, faster, and more damped and compressed in the lows. The "i" sounds slower, freer, and less compressed in the lows. The descriptions of all these people are confused...they can't seem to agree on what the mics are doing and which is brighter. The explanation given here is the correct one.
Huxxy everything you've said is spot on.
Absolutely adore this mic. We have one at our studio and it is certainly the centre piece of the mic collection
same. When an artist comes in you try others then usually end up with the Neumann U87 on vocals anyway. They make great drum overheads too
Man do I miss that place. I worked there in the late 90's. INCREDIBLY talented people. Absolutely top notch.
The clear winner in this video is the PREAMP!!!! DAMN it sounds good
My first studio mic was (is) a Neumann TLM 193. Unbelievable tool. Bright and deep, but natural sounding. It's supposed to be an entry-level mic, but sometimes is the best one hands down. It shines on low-register percussion, voice, left-hand accordion or bandoneon, trombone... It was my only condenser for years, and I can't imagine any alternative that would have given me the same usability.
I iften prefer it over my 87ai...its one of ny all time favourites!
OMG I loved the old one on the guitar it sound so real I felt the guy was playing next to me
Very difficult to tell each mic apart. The Older mic (U87i) Has a more well rounded frequecy response, while the newer (U87ai) has the mid frequencies a bit hotter than the vintage mic, the newer mic also has a tiny bit Hotter signal. Both sound really really good, a crystal clean capture of the performance. Now If I could just be able to afford to buy all the Neumann Mic's I would be a very happy studio owner.
*I currently own a Neumann u87 **do7.pl/NMicrophone2** and after a little subtractive eq and slight eq bumps here and there I have actually preferred the 102 over it for many applications. Out the box it reminds me of a voice over mic with its presence and heavy low end. I don't get as much sibilance with it compared to my u87. I have used it for hip hop vocals with great results with my avalon 737. This mic is extremely small and can fit in the palm of your hands or pocket. I also sold some of my larger gear and purchased a duet for ipad. I am loving how my gear is getting more compact. I feel as though the technology is allowing for a great sound in much smaller devices without sacrificing quality.*
I have A U87AI. And love it sounds great. So glad I bought it. One question I have is don't ya think A 30 year old capsule and electronics won't be affected by age? That is probably most of the difference between them I would think.
Great shoot out. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a 87 and wanted to hear a sensible comparison. I preferred the vintage for the voiceover with its warmer top and slightly rounder bottom end, but for everything else, especially the vocals, the Ai wins for me, because lets face it, in todays modern production style we'll be pushing that top end sparkle even harder. And I love how everybody had a contradicting opinion. Another thing to consider is that the vintage mic has had 40 + years of spit hitting the capsule. After getting a 47 fet serviced many years ago, that can make a huge difference to the top end. So in conclusion, it'll be a new 87Ai for me without all the potential headaches of owning a vintage microphone. Cheers!
Really Enjoy shop talk like this!!
Great show! For my ears, the Ai is a hands down a winner. I can see how some preferred the vintage 87 for VO because of its slightly mellow sound compared to the Ai, but if you want mellow VO you may as well grab an EV RE20!
I agree with Mr. Hart. the new one definitely had a beefy low end that I love!
Thanks for making this comparison. Very helpful.
I randomly started applauding in the middle of the guitar, and vocal recording.
I loved the vintage U87i over the newer U87 Ai in all categories except for the voice over. To my ears the vintage captures the clarity of the original sound in far greater detail than the newer one. "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot". Neumann had the golden wand and now you can only get one of questionable condition on eBay.
Great production quality, Matt. I like the fact that they folks there had comments which is much more valuable than me listening on UA-cam. One last addition for future tests. Do a blind test with a "man on the street" with the samples, simply asking is one better than the other, same, which one.
Your guests are trained engineers I am assuming, so they are the "expert" panel.
For a future show, I would love to pit this Expensive Neumann against a budget under $150 mike and do the same test!
I liked the new one for the acoustic and the old for vocals and voiceover. My impression was the new one had greater articulation in the upper mids and the older one was smoother and more transparent. The articulation caught the small nuances of the guitar playing, which were diminished with the old mic. Depending on application, that effect could be exploited accordingly. Both vocal recordings sounded smoother and better balanced with the old mic without losing detail but reducing some of the sibilance and hard consonant sounds. Of course, this is all from listening through the speakers of my iPhone 11. 😂
I vote for the U87Ai
is no one going to mention the masked man at 7:00 ?
Dude, we were listening, not watching :)
On the new mic Stephen is on point! There is some kinda bump 100-200Hz on the U87Ai, first thing I recognized.
I felt like there was a slight boost in the high frequencies of the Vintage U-87, it sounded clearer (On Guitar) but like a compressed clear sound, and on the AI it sounded like there was a slight boost in the lower frequencies but a smooth presence (male vocals), They both are close sounding , one can get away with recording with the other, however there is also a proximity difference where one sounded close than the other, The Vintage feels more of a live sound I believe its the Preamp, however Id have to test them with other Preamps to see if that's true, that's my opinion, it depends what you like better, to my ear I prefer the AI, as it seems a more modern sound and good all around mic.
I preferred the vocal using a U87i. Smooth and richer sounding, very similar to the U87i I recently purchased for over $4K US. I sold over 50 'new' U87Ai from 2010 - 2022, and auditioned them all. I can say very few of them I would keep for my personal use. I am using Neve/BAE 1073/1084s, and primarily D.W. Fearn and Hazzelrigg chains for voice.
No one mentioned the guitar being out of tune! I found it more and more difficult to concentrate on the quality of the mic, but would have preferred the U87I in the long run, to mixing the guitar in a full mix. The guitar had a nice sound, and musician was very accomplished otherwise. My $ .02.
maybe it's the you tube's compression, but I felt there was huge difference with the sounds of the two mics. with first hearing I agreed with the british guy, on guitar definitely the vintage 87, on vocals, maybe the new one.. I'd probably prefer the old one if given the choice!
Thanks for a great show!!!
U87i for vocals and voiceover, and U87Ai for guitar is my verdict
Definitely the new one! More low mids, more body... I felt some distortion at the high end with the old one.
I have an AI and it's truly a great mic. In some occasions I prefer it over my C12 VR, which is my go-to mic for vox. Paired with a tube pre it sounds amazing. Detailed yet not harsh. When dealing with a sibilant voice (sometimes a problem with the C12), it saves the day.
Seeing that an older i would be very difficult to find, I'd be perfectly happy with the Ai in all these applications. The i sounded a little veiled to me in the "air".
nothing proved there then only these dudes need to get out more!
I think these kinds of test get much more interesting when they are double blind. Here, the way a couple of them describe the vintage mic - I think they would have preferred it if it were broken.
Ana Sophie's observations where closest to mine, Stephen a close second. To me also the main difference is in the lower mids.
To me the young engineers descriptions don't seem to fit the sonics at all. The vintage one is very clearly brighter with less low end. Probably due to some subtle distortion
Guys, as an engineer I am hearing a problem. maybe this is UA-cam video compression or something but on 02:42 you can hear the U87i just completely get trampled on digital distortion.
I prefer the U87i myself, have worked for Unique Recordings & Hit Factory in NYC and Sony Studios. I tend to lean more tords the vintage series equipment, because thats how I was taught and raised with..
But I am completely shocked to hear such distortion in this test coming from both microphones, mainly at 02:42
I have to say a thing! That studio is wonderful!! :-D
Anyway, I prefer the "ai" (new one).
Well I'm in love with the vintage one. Sounds better on guitar and singing voice to me. The new one was better for the vox. I feel the new 87 sounds a little bit compress on the melody compare to the old one.
Older one is easy on the ears and less fatigue
I tended to agree with what stephen had to say about the new u87 had smoother lows and that bit more presence/attention seeking sound. Also sounded slightly compressed. I guess everyone has preferences
liked the newer one more on guitar (more body), and on the voiceover: (more clarity & definition) and the older one on the vocal, less defined highs that make it sound more mellow which seemed to fit the theme of what he was singing - differences are so small, I would go for the cheaper one :)
Sole issue I have with the ai is the 5dB less headroom compared to the old one - more then once I had to increase distance more than I acutally wanted to avoid clipping on vocals.
The new one sounds scooped in the mids. The old one sounds solid top to bottom although perhaps less bass response. I also preferred the vintage on everything but the voiceover.
For me this very well made video confirms what I allready thought. The 87i "erases" useless informations. So on voices you just get what you need. For the guitar (rich in hi-mid) the 87i still erases extreme informations but in this case these informations are essential. So I prefer the ai for guitar thru I don't like any 87's on guitars. If I would have to record a folk guitar with a Neumann I'd use a KM.
what can we take away from all this? as much as gear nerds insist they know their gear inside and out and have DEFINITIVE opinions on every little thing from patch cables to vintage condenser mics, no one knows what the hell is going on...everyone's ear is different, everyone picks up something completely unique...you ask alan parsons why he likes his old boxy overheads, he stares at you for a second and says something vague about "how nice they sound"....he knows how to work them and that's what it boils down to
Heard it too. Like hitting the ceiling (subtle, but there). Thought it was the old capsule giving up, or a leaky component. Only on the i.
Sounds to me like the new U87Ai brings out more bass and lower mid, and the U87i gives outstanding high mid/low high detail. I'd imagine the U87i to offer a lot more to a nicer sounding, stronger voice. U87Ai for proximity-effect voiceovers.
George Merrill... thanks for getting a good vocalist and a GREAT SONGWRITER! Anyways. I liked the older U87 because when he gets louder the microphone tames the sound so it doesn’t hurt my ears!!!!!!! I’ve noticed this with a lot of older mics like the km84,u87,414eb... the newer microphones allow your ears to bled. Wtf!
The older one on the acoustic guitar but prefer the Ai model on vocal duties. I have an Ai model from roughly 14-15 years ago (retro perhaps??) that I use on my voice.
@MrRobWhite I would use the two channels on your awesome Vintech 273 on the snare first and foremost, and the kick second. Kick and snare without a shadow of a doubt. Kick and snare the meat and potatoes of a good acoustic drum sound, and theres no doubt in my mind your Vintech/Neve will make them sound fantastic. With an 003, you can get a great overhead sound as long as you're using quality mics. Ive had great success using interface pres with good mics. Good mics-good mic pres-good sound.
Preferred the AI for sure on VO and guitar. Fuller and more rich in the mids, more tamed highs. The older one sounded a little thin. The AI has a closeness to it... feels more intimate. Maybe a tighter capsule pattern? The vocal performance seemed to benefit from the brighter sound.
Very entertaining. Thanks!
Okay, that recording studio looked decked out and upscale, but something about it, the colors, the darkness, the pictures on the walls and decorating choices, I don't think I could record anything in a place like that. Anybody else get a weird vibe?
I find it interesting that I heard this exactly opposite of the guy in the black vest. And so did everyone else… I think he was confused which was which tbh.
Both U87's sounded great to me...I'll take either one and be happy. U87i / U87ai > 1073 > 1176 / LA-2A > EQP-1A = Happy days :)
rtrois music make that Chandler Curve Bender EQ
Millmoor Michael i must try it at some point :)
Noymon!! I like the new Noymon on vocals and the old Noymon on guitar
both sounds good, u guys should check out a condenser called The Dark Light by Neon Man, my buddy got one off of eBay, different sound but definitely on par with these
I like the vintage one more
Thanks for the video, Matt! The U87i has more highs and less mids than the U87ai. So to me the U87ai is a "playing-safe" mic, but U87i brings more presence. In the singing comparison the sound of tongue-turning-in-mouth is pretty apparent for U87i.
Personally I'll pick U87i for solos but U87ai for anywhere I want to be conservative.
Interestingly enough that AKG C414 went an opposite way that their older ones are low-key but newer ones are more and more aggressive.
Not true, the U87i actually has a LP filter at around 12Khz... Which is why most people find it "warmer" sounding.. lol
Hard to define what it means to be "better" without some sort of a pre-existent chart or standard or whatever. It all boils down to personal preference and taste. I like the AI for the same reasons most ppl dislike it... And to me, "warm" means "not much treble". If the lower frequencies are there in equal or similar amounts, it's easy to tame the highs to match both mics. And vice versa, you can boost the higher end of the other. I much rather cut than boost, tho...
Oh God, now I have to agree, the u87i sounds much better. The "sssss" are incredibly smooth, and its warmer. At the loudest part, the 87Ai sounds harsh (2:18) (a thing that I've noticed with newer Neumanns), while the 87i sounds sweet (2:51). I downloaded the files and did blind tests a lot of times. I got it right all the times. The difference is clear. No doubt anymore. I prefer 100% the 87i.
These guys do not make mistakes in life.
Can you do a cover with zero effects turned on? I would love to get a sense of how good the ISK BM800 is as a mic
Honestly.. the new Neumann wins IMHO...very surprising. it sounds wider, and has more presence. which is great to cut through dense mixes.
The New one i liked it alot
to me the U87ai is the clear winner.
These shoot outs are crazy. I mean these guys are talking about how the newer 87 sounds like it may have a SLIGHT boost around 10k. My thing is, if you like that, then you are good to go. But if you don't want that then it takes 3 seconds to pull out a simple eq and dip at 10k. I guess what I'm getting at is...is the 0.3 db boost at 10k (or whatever slight frequency differences) that big of an issue? Not really.
SanctuarySound thank you...I got the u87ai last week. Picks up eq like no other mic. No problem with any frequency imo
Could you guys do a shoot out between the Sony C800G and Brauner VM1 or Manley Ref C?
That guy alwas saying "I felt the opposite of that" MUST have mixed up wich was the 87Ai and the vintage right?!?!
Did you process the vocals with auto-tune? Sounds like it... Kind of taints the results of the comparison in my mind.
One will immediately sell for a lot less money after buying. The other continues to go up in price.
I agree with Paul, mostly, and completely disagree with Stephen. On guitar, especially, these two mics sound very different and the new one is much brighter (sounds kind of scooped).
Maybe the audible differences relies on the age difference of everyone in this room. Also the damage to the ears overtime. I personally do like the old one but...I mean.. its like hearing the elephant in the room with headphones...
I just wish they werent sooo damn expensive tho.
@PeteWojMusic if you were recording drums and you had 1 Vintech 273 and all your other pre amps were Digidesign 003 rack preamps, would you use the 273 as your O/H's?
Is that Bruce Campbell's brother on VO?
so damn true
I prefered the Ai on Gtr and the vintage U87 on VO and Vocals. Almost sounds like the vintage U87 capsule is beat up and needs a capsule refurb.
@TheJamezMan Evidence of what specifically??
Hi! You said the new one is operate in 60 volt and the old one is 46 volt, But on most desk, phantom power is +,-48v. So is it there is an issue with operating voltage, is there is a dirty trick about operating voltage?
They are referring to polarisation voltage, as opposed to input operating voltage, which is phantom power. The Polarisation is part of a DC conversion. The point is, arguably, that by increasing this conversion voltage, they have changed the sensitivity of the capsule (if my numbers are correct, by ~2db), and decreased the signal/noise ratio. This also may change the tone slightly.
u87i is like 20% warmer.
"And here's Paul Simmans, to say exactly the opposite of what everyone was thinking."
whats a good interface?
I think calling a mic made in the 80's old is quaint. When I began studio recording old meant mics made in the 40's and 50's. A mic made in the 1980's is just a mic.
7:24 Gotta love the luchador waiter
older one is less "hard" New one more roomy (like a TLM103) more low mids....but it is a different take anyways, Bad test sorry
what console is that I looked up digitech 192 and it wasn't a mixer?
please tell me what is your recording software (the program that is opened in the back)
What headphones was he using? DT150?
I'd love to think you're a friend of the guy you mention sitting on couch and you're just giving him a hard time. Otherwise, I'm guessing you're not used to speaking with great numbers of highly intelligent people. I found his speech entirely clear and articulate, I thought he was thinking about what he said before saying it, and he was simply a little eccentric as are many brilliant people. And he didn't say "low-mid" he said "low," the woman in the chair said "low-mid."
never mind... i like all clip mics... that has full body.. warm.. nice 4k and 10k.. :lol
Lliam Neeson into audio?
doped but not coked. Pity. i concur with the other comment....
"U87 Ai, less bright"? Are you kidding me? Having a preference is one thing, but something's wrong with your ears if you think the Ai is less bright. One thing, that vintage 87 sounds great, but not all vintage Neumann U87's sound that good.
no the vintage one get it, it has more brightness to it
The vintage one wins, IMO.
Nah and besides, you want the new one to sound like the old one? Easy... Throw a LP filter at 12Khz and there you go.. That's why it sounds "warmer" it has a low pass around there.
@claycook13 well said.
The Vintage mic it is. It sounds so much better
Nah and besides, you want the new one to sound like the old one? Easy... Throw a LP filter at 12Khz and there you go.. That's why it sounds "warmer" it has a low pass around there.
Ai, hands down.
A Good beer without a glass? bitch please xD, awesome test, thanks.
BTW in my opinion i will pick the old Neumann U87i all the time.
I honestly think that the u87i is better with guitar, but the u87ai is better with voiceover and singing.
vintage to me is better on vox. i prefer the newer 87 on the ac git
i can't really tell the difrence..........
In a blind test, I doubt anyone could tell one over the other.