John, thanks for the question. The hydro, in 2013, cost £10,387.96 - an exhaustive breakdown of this total can be read at water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2014/12/cost-and-return_17.html The solar, in 2015, cost £5,649.32 The battery system, in 2023, cost £17,461.05 This is an all inclusive figure which includes all construction costs of the 'bunker' + alteration works to the pre-existing electrical layout + all costs of the kit required. I will try and do another 'exhaustive breakdown' and write it up in the blog for those who are interested. There have also been costs for 'supply critical spares' which probably come to £5k, - the idea in having these being that the installation should be good for ± 40 years. Against these outgoings, there have been 'incomings': for the 10 years the hydro has been working, it has earned £13,070.94 in FiT's, and the solar has earned £2,638.62 over its 8 years, - both figures are up to the present time; each FiT contract runs for 20 years and the tariffs increase yearly with RPI. Additional benefit arises from the 'cost saving' of electricity not purchased from the grid; you can read my estimate of this in 2018 at water-to-wire.blogspot.com/search/label/Offset where I estimated it was £546 per year. Since 2018, electricity prices are up, and the battery storage facility has been added, - so that £546 figure will now be too small an estimate. With the installation as it is now, we have taken only 14.6 units / kWh from the grid since 1st November last year (2023), so monthly electricity bills are now effectively only the cost of the daily charge for being connected to the grid (since 1st April 2024, £0.63 per day, inclusive of VAT @ 5%). I should add that, except for the solar installation, most (all !) of the work, ie: design, obtaining regulatory permissions, and construction, I did myself, - except where a qualified electrician was required for alterations to grid connections and house wiring. If I had had to pay someone, it would not have been worth doing but as it was, it gave me a lot of enjoyment, and not a little frustration, to bring it to completion. Come back if you want to know more !
@@KEhydro I'm sorry, but if i'm reading this right. You paid over 33,000 pounds for the setup. You were paying around say 600 pounds per year in electricity from the grid prior. The cost of this setup = around 55 years of paying grid rates. The system MAY last 40 years if lucky though before needing to replace critical parts. You've made back about 15,000 pounds though in incomings is that right? I'm genuinely curious, I just want to know when the break even point is, because if i'm paying 20 years worth of grid electricity up front, and the system lasts that long it doesn't make sense. Thats whats happened to solar here in australia, it costs $20k to setup and over the 20 odd years a good panel lasts (including degradation) it saves you nothing due to their tariffs.
@@deanc6471 Thanks for questioning the financial sense. I find it an impossible task to work out a financial justification, predicated as it has to be on past details which may no longer apply, and future predictions which are impossible to have certainty about. All one can do is make a stab at it based on averaged historical grid energy consumption, and using financial data which are true now. The key figure to get right is the figure for what we would have been paying, at 2024 rates, for energy taken from the grid, if we didn’t have any of the renewables now in existence. The figure has to be a 'guesstimate', - a 'guesstimate' because it is putting a cost on a situation that doesn’t actually exist, - but I can tell you what my ‘guesstimate’ would have been. From my records of how much energy we took from the grid before any of the renewables were implemented, each year we took 4,600 kWh of day time tariff energy and 4,000 kWh of night time energy. At 2024 rates for each tariff, these figures translate to a total cost of £2,350 annually. That figure includes VAT at the UK rate of 5%. £2,350 is a bit more than the £600 you were using for your calculation, and it will significantly change the calculation you were wanting to make about ‘the break even point’. I don’t propose to do the calculation for you, but if you do it, and arrive at a figure, please post a reply. If you do it, factor in that ‘incomings’ from Feed in Tariff payments will continue until 2033 (for the hydro) and 2035 (for the pv), increasing each year by the percentage change in the UK Retail Price Index. The increase for the financial year just started is 5.2%, but what it will be for future years you will have to read from your crystal ball. Another thing you’ll have to consult your crystal ball about is the future price of electricity, - if it goes up, then the time to ‘break even’ comes down. Let me leave it there; if you’re in need of a good crystal ball, I’m sure Amazon will have one somewhere, probably made in China. Thanks for your comment, it was a very valid question.
@@deanc6471 A yank here... but for me, my off grid system isnt about coming out on top vs the power company, its that I dont care for the politics of the power company, then add in outages, and service wait times, and spending extra on an off grid system even though the grid is already on my property, was the right choice for me.
Stunningly neat install. Hats off to you or the tradesperson who did it. Deserves many more views than it has. Add micro hydro into the title, that would help 🙂
@@Astrojamus apologies for not replying earlier, I missed seeing your comment. KEHydro was the UA-cam tag I invented for the only other video I’ve posted. It is an abbreviation for Kisiizi Electricity Hydro.
...without labels, I wouldn't have a clue as to what's what, and when I'm dead and gone, no one else would have a clue either ! So labelling everything is part of my wishful hoping it could last 40 years or more !
Absurdly neat install. Everything buried. Looks way better than all the above ground systems you see elsewhere on UA-cam. Surely this will also survive harsh weather way better
Your video has such incredible timing, I've been exhaustively researching around for the best hydro generator for my new land purchase. With 30m of head, ~6Lps of flow, 60m (converted to your amazing metric system from my dirty imperial of course) of pipe the power spout you are showing is absolutely perfect! We should be returning around 400w only tapping the stream on the property for half its flow. If I keep an undersized jet on to limit flow and therefore keep the creek flowing below the intake for animals and my neighbors (good friends of mine) it should never need changed I suppose? Your spout storage and entire system for that matter are incredibly well done. Good work sir! The only other option I've found is a Canadian company or converting a washing machine motor (which though interesting doesn't look nearly as reliable and clean as an off the shelf model). Also, THANK YOU, for detailing your head and flow rates, that is the most difficult real world data to find in videos of people's hydro projects. Lastly, having checked out powerspouts website, they have the best micro hydro calculator on the internet hands down. This video is so very helpful. -All the best from the USA!
Peter, - I well remember being at the stage you are at. The 'gestation phase' of a hydro scheme, if it is to be a good scheme, is the most challenging. Don't rush it. For me, learning that Powerspout turbines were available on the market was the piece of the jigsaw that allowed everything to come together. If you choose one, and your scheme's hydrology is good, you won't be disappointed.
@@KEhydro I appreciate that sage advice. We're 9 months away from breaking ground and the research is years in the making already, more site visits to come in over this year in various seasons to get more flow numbers for a good average. My friend who currently owns the land states the flow changes some, but so far our measurements are at what he reckons are during the higher end of things (winter). I'll be getting more flow numbers in summer to get more of an average. And of course, we are installing a bifacial solar array to start out and then get more flow data over our first year before investing in the system. Having options seems to be key off grid. Thanks again.
Absolutely amazing set up totally self-sufficient if absolutely and the worst case scenario grid power was to go down completely, and also prove that you can live without the grid. I tipped my hat to you good sir you have proven that if we can conceive it, he can achieve it👍
@@KEhydro The video was great, maybe worth doing the audio after when editing the video? I would love to see and learn more about the stream, where it's collected from, and when it generates the most power (what months). The big catch tank. There's so much to learn from this. I've been reading your Blog, but would prefer to listen to you describing it. FIT tariffs etc. Even if it's just a slide show of the installation and voice-over.
@@elliot330 It's all in the blog, - but might take a bit of finding ! Photos of the installation being done are viewable on the access button provided on the blog.
Amazing! You are living my dream! For now I'm an electrical engineering student but something similar to your house is my objective! I love it, thank you for sharing!
I'll echo the others regarding great video work, nice fluid movements, I'm not a huge talker either, so probably would have had inserted descriptions too. I've been off grid for nearly 6 years now with SMA gear, this alternative energy is addictive , good luck with any future upgrades !!!
Thanks Andy, - is your scheme 'viewable' at all ? I'd be interested to see what you've done. Regarding future upgrades here, I feel as if I've now reached the summit that I'd been hoping to get to when still in the valley, - and there's no higher place to climb to ! But technology does keep moving on and creating new goals to aim for, - so yes, I suppose future upgrades have to be a possibility, - if I have the oomph to tackle them !
@@KEhydro Hi Bill, I monitor my system from anywhere, but I don't have anything online for people to view so to speak. Basically I have 10kWp of solar, two 5 kW Sunny Boys and one 8kW Sunny Island. Coupled to all of this are 35kWh of BYD batteries. I do have an EV as well (Kia EV6) which gets charged exclusively from solar and occasionally from the batteries depending on weather conditions. All working superbly well so far !!! 🤠😎
This is a blessing, such a peaceful environment. I love water flows and redirecting them to purpose. I have lots of solar panels at roof about 20KW. Although I saw the 85% ratio of the invertor to hyrdro. still I was expecting alot more KW generated through that much of water flow and how fast it was flowing, in no way I am engineer or have background knowledge of hydro just through observation I was kinda of hoping alot more production like 5 6 KW of generation. I suppose with solar you have the sun out and get the KW where in hydro you just have the consistent generation unless it the water dries up. Really loved the setup!! if you were to upgrade 10 years down the track, dont forget to look at Fronius models too if its sold in UK.
Try waterwheel system. It can work for you. He is using pressure from the water water; you on the other hand can use the weight of the water to harness energy . You may end up with some few hundred watts but with that 24/7, you are in for a good ride.
This video was incredibly amazing I learnt a lot. Just a thought or a questions, where the water is going out to the stream again after being used, couldn't you add maybe another or another of sorts but in a lower power consumption? I'm purely curious as to what you think and if it would be possible to do so? I hope to hear fro you.
Very nice setup constant 800w of power + solar later and a 10kwh battery pack could probably run most smaller houses grid free but with the solar pannels I imagine full house like that it would hardly use grid Our house can only be solar only both are unfortunately not ideal location front roof is run rising direction (it's not possible to use rear side of the roof due to extention, if we could that would have been 3.6kw on both sides with 7.2kw single dual mppt inverter but unfortunately no) second one is the shed where I managed to install 3kw on it (it was a pigeon shed it was kinda long until the end of it was removed) , it is technically correct direction but I have the angle quite sloped flat ish due to not wanting to upset the neighbours back garden sun light (they still don't know it has solar pannels on it because put back box on the rack so just looks slightly taller shed with a new roof) 5kw solar with 3600 inverter + 3kw solar on the shed(both are sunny boy 3600 inverters might try getting extra 2 or 4 pannels on the shed, we are allowed 7.2-8kw on export I believe) could do with battery's to handle night time loads
I invite you to look up what Kris Harbour has done in Wales. He has consolidated the nozzles into an adjustable fixture that can be increased or decreased in diameter via wifi given the amount of flow from his stream. I've seen a lot of variety in water turbines, but I think his is the best designed and most resilient (and efficient) set up I've seen.
Hey, an electrician from Germany here. Realy nice Installation, some things like the 1x insulated flex Wires in your house would't be allowed here in Germany but nothing dramatic. Just one question/reminder, i cant make out if the earth is normal copper felx wire H07V-K or double insulated NYM-J both should not be but underground especially not for the main earth, because of corosion. It has to be Stainless Steel (V4A) or Aluminium until it comes out of the ground. I hope that iam not wrong but please check that. All in all real nice Installation and neat idea.
Ledbury? fairly local to me. I have a 600w solar installation i did, nothing to this degree though. I use it to power a portable LifePo4 setup i built that runs on tasmota. It acts as a UPS system and, on full state of charge, automatically cuts it's grid supply to allow consumption of battery (solar) power. Nowhere near this level of advanced or big, but still, it's a start. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks. Like Johnfitzgerald above I'd be interested in cost and also how often is hrid power required. Nice countryside...surprisingly not many birds(?)
Peter, - can I direct you to the reply I gave to John F for the costs involved. Regarding 'how often grid power is required', this is a question that only the passage of time will answer as we work through a full year of having the installation as it now is. You can read my thoughts of how it might pan out at: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2024/02/benefitting-from-battery-storage.html Regarding 'not many birds' - half of them (the female half) are probably on their nests at this time of year (!) - but there are many about in the woods here. I saw a Tree creeper last week, - which is a bird not often seen.
I work for a DNO and that is one of the best setups i have seen! The only thing I would question is why you need dump loads and what they are? Do you ever actually need to use them or can you throttle your generation down to match your usage? I would guess that you occasionally do need to use them as your hydro is constant, but it might just balance with your battery set up! Got to say I am a bit jealous ...... Well done!
Thanks for your comment; coming from a 'pro' like yourself, it carries weight for an amateur. The loads you refer to are not really dump loads but diversion loads; power is sent to them whenever Solarcache detects power is going out from the house toward the grid connection point; power will leave the house and be fed to the grid in this way when there is more 'home generation' than is required by the loads in the house which happen to be ON at any given moment; and what these diversion loads do is minimise grid feed-in by maximising retention of generated electricity for beneficial usage in the house. The white boxes you see in the film are 'throttles' controlling the power going to the loads; they are not the loads themselves; the power the 'throttles' feed to their loads is pulse width modulated, and is thus infinitely variable; by having complete control of how much power is fed to the diversion loads by PWM, Solarcache can precisely control what flows out of the house toward the grid connection point., - and this it keeps to ± 60 W. I keep saying "toward the grid connection point' for a reason: the power Solacache allows to leave the house doesn't actually reach the grid connection point because it gets picked up in the 'Battery Bunker' by the Sunny Home Manager, and is diverted to charging the battery. Sunny Home Manager is the real 'gate keeper' of power flow at the grid connection point and it rigorously maintains a regime of 'zero export and zero import', - unless of course, the battery SOC is 100%, in which case grid feed-in will occur, - or if loads within the house exceed the power that can be provided by power from hydro + solar + battery, in which case power will be drawn from the grid. All of this 'operational logic' might be clearer if you study the diagram at the very bottom of this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/12/battery-storage-completed.html If you want to understand more, do get back again.
@@KEhydro That was a good read .... does that make me a pedant? ;o) The only thing I would add (small point) is that you seem to have a "White meter" The tariff for this in your situation is not good .... changing tariff might be worth looking at? Especially as it is an old meter (they should be changed every 10 years so your supplier will be looking to install a "smart meter"! This might not be in your best interests!
@@totherarf There is a benefit from having an old 'spinning disc' white meter, and insofar as there's a benefit, there's a reason for my wanting to keep it. The 'gate keeper' at the grid connection point (SHM) is rigorous, as I've said, in preventing import or export; but it cannot absolutely prevent a few Watts coming in or going out; what it does achieve precisely is zero movement of power at the grid connection point over a period of time; if there was a Smart meter there, every few Watts of grid import that SHM allows to be in-coming would be registered as energy taken from the grid, but every few Watts of export SHM allows out-bound would not wind the digital counter of a Smart meter backwards. In contrast to this, with the spinning disc meter you saw, although it is ratcheted and cannot go backwards indefinitely, it will go back part of a revolution until it hits its ratcheted stop; so with the way SHM is constantly allowing a few Watts in, and a few Watts out, this allows the disc to oscillate very slowly (slowly because we're talking about
@@KEhydro It is nice to see someone who actually understands what they are saying rather than pump out generalisations! I am in a similar situation, but do import more than I make. When setting it up they wanted me to get feed in tariffs and were surprised when I told them I would store all my excess for a later time! Unfortunately for me hydro is not an option and people would object to any sizeable wind turbine in my area! You have to work with what you've got!
I was wondering how often he swaps the nozzles over the course of the year. I think that even a manually-adjusted nozzle would be much more convenient than having to divert the flow and screw the better nozzle back in.
@@ArnaudMEURET You are right ! - having to change nozzles is something of a handicap - to answer your question, over the last 8 years the average number of changes in a 12 month period is 30, with the range being 39 to 16. I only change the bottom nozzle; the top one is never changed but it can be turned on, or not turned on, in conjunction with the bottom one. The top one is machined to deliver 0.3 l/s. The gradations in orifice size of the nozzles used in the bottom position are also machined to give increments in flow of 0.3 l/s. With these characteristics, when flow is increasing, I can determine when to place a bigger nozzle in the bottom position by using the top nozzle to 'sample' if there is sufficient water for the next bigger nozzle to be placed in the bottom position. When flow is decreasing, the time to change the bottom nozzle for a smaller one is determined by noting that the header tank is beginning to be no longer full. The pattern of how flow changes through the year is remarkably predictable: it is either increasing or it is decreasing, and it increases or decreases in a steady and leisurely way. There are no sudden changes on a day-to-day timescale. This pattern comes as a result of the source being a spring, which is discharging from groundwater held in the hillside; movements in groundwater levels are never sudden. Your suggestion of a manually-adjusted nozzle is a good suggestion, - either a conventional spear valve type, or the type which has a variable orifice along the lines of a camera's aperture adjustment. But either of these would be less efficient than a smooth-walled, straight-through, conical nozzle (by less efficient I mean there would be a greater energy loss at the nozzle) and in a system as small as this, where energy losses need to be kept to an absolute minimum to make the scheme worthwhile, I'm not sure the gain in convenience would be worth the loss in energy generated. Changing a nozzle is a very quick and easy job, but you do need smallish hands, and as you have pointed out, you do need the perception that it is NOT an inconvenience ! Thanks very much for your comment.
The hydro part of the setup was in 'gestation' a long time before its 'birth'. The dream / realisation that something was possible - started in ± 2005; flow measurements and head measurements 2007-9; gradual conception of a workable design by 2010, over which time, identifying a Powerspout as being a turbine which could connect to the grid was the most crucial advance; 2010 to 2012 was taken up with looking out for and finding, non-new items such as the penstock pipes, header tank, electrofusion kit, highway crash barrier for water gathering, SMA inverter, etc (mostly on eBay); 2012 -13 was the start of actual installation work, and also the start of working to obtain the necessary regulatory permissions (Planning / Water abstraction / Grid connection / Feed in Tariff payments). Taking the set up as a whole, ie: hydro + solar + battery, it's probably true it has been a lifelong conviction to want to go in that direction; so in that sense, the answer to your question is: a VERY long time !
@@KEhydro awesome I love it, thank you for the detailed response, seems like a perfect project to tackle out there on your land, wishing you all the best for the years to come.
You can find two documents, covering the wiring schematic and the communications diagram for the 'battery bunker', in this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/12/battery-storage-completed.html The documents come at the very bottom of the post. The wiring diagram was based on an on-line document from March 2021, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) which you can find at: electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2021/84-march-2021/island-mode-earthing-arrangements-new-guidance-in-the-second-edition-of-the-iet-code-of-practice-on-electrical-energy-storage-systems/ I hope these help you.
Would it not be better if the outflow pipe had a larger diameter to prevent back pressure? Do not ask me as I am not an engineer. Thank you for great video.
As an electrician, I've considered doing something like this for an off grid cabin/home, but is your turbine delivering AC or DC? I was always thinking of doing a 240Vac turbine, that would feed an AC load center/panel, for powering the fridge, HVAC, and washer/dryer, and some receptacles. Then also 120Vac to 48Vdc charging circuits to feed large battery banks. The battery banks would feed DC sub panels with buck converters for dropping the 48Vdc to 24/12/5Vdc and then circuits for 24Vdc lighting, 12Vdc appliances and convenience, and 5V usb outlets. This way the turbine would not only power my heavy AC appliances and motors, it would also constantly keep batteries topped off that deliver power to all my lighting, electronics, and anything else I could keep running on low volt DC power.
The permanent magnet alternator on the shaft of the pelton generates 3 phase ac. This ac is of variable frequency because the shaft speed is different for the different flow conditions which occur through the seasons. This variation in frequency doesn't matter because the 3 phase is rectified and smoothed to dc before leaving the turbine housing. The resulting dc power passes to the house at between 200 and 330 volts. At the house an ordinary grid connected wind turbine inverter, though it can also be an ordinary solar pv inverter, converts the incoming dc to 240 v mains ac at 50 Hz. These are the figures for grid voltage and frequency here in the UK. Best of luck with your project.
@@KEhydro Got it thanks. So probably not able to receive a consistent single phase 240Vac @ 60 hz is what I'm hearing. I'll have to look into it more.. I'd love to find a way to avoid converting AC to DC only to invert it back again for all the AC appliances. Maybe this is not possible...
You would get more UA-cam views if your word font color (white) didn't blend into the back ground. I could not read the words, but it looks like a interesting set up. You should try light green font or box it in with a lighter back ground color, hop this helps.
Good questions John; I'll write an extended answer because I want it known the system does have limitations. 17th July 2013 was the date when the hydro first ran; since that day up to the present, it has generated non-stop except for an accumulated total of perhaps 90 days (that's an educated guess, but educated by the records I keep); most of the 90 days of down-time were due to early teething problems with the Powerspout's on-board electronics getting damp. Of course, there has also been time lost from generating by shutdowns for: nozzle changes, stator and rotor changes, bearing changes, de-silting of the header tank, and other maintenance jobs, - but these last a matter of hours at most. Before the batteries were installed, as much generation as possible was kept 'in house'; this was accomplished by the Solarcache device diverting to its 3 loads, - it doesn't divert to all 3 at once but in a way that can be prioritised and sequenced. But these 3 loads could get to be replete and not accept any more input (because their in-built thermostats clicked open); when this happened, usually on a sunny day, then yes, as you suggest, surplus power then went out to the grid if it was not needed for 'the always ON things' in a house, - 'the always ON things' being things like fridge / freezer / Grundfos pump /etc etc. The irksomeness about this arrangement, - which has mostly been put right by having batteries, - was that whilst energy was occasionally exported to the grid when the sun was shining, when the sun was not shining, some energy almost always had to be imported from the grid; this happened whenever the loads switched ON in the house were taking in aggregate more power than the hydro on its own was producing; since the power output of the hydro can be as little as 200W at some times of the year, importing happened quite a lot. The way that having batteries has put this right is that the battery inverter is able to output a maximum of 3.65 kW; so now we can avoid taking from the grid by taking from the battery instead, - BUT only so long as we keep the loads in the house switched ON to be taking less than the power the battery inverter can output (3.65 kW), added to whatever the hydro is producing at the time. All this does impose a certain discipline on us in how we use electrical things ! My wife accuses me of being an 'energy policeman', - and I am, I admit it. But I've promised her it'll only be for this initial year so we can see whether it's possible to live without taking any grid power. After a year, we'll relax our present rule and accept a few kWh of import. You can see a graph of our grid usage before and after battery installation if you look at this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2024/02/benefitting-from-battery-storage.html. It makes the point of how great the reduction is in imported energy brought about by having batteries.
Thanks for the advice, - I appreciate your warning. The BYD battery WLAN pw is not unique: it is common to all BYD batteries and therefore I took no precautions to hide it. I don’t think any other vulnerable information is viewable, - at least I hope that is the case !
The volt meter at the turbine reads DC (rectified 3 phase from the permanent magnet alternator). The voltmeters in the 'battery bunker' show battery DC on the right hand one, and 'grid' AC on the left hand. The 'grid' AC one will read either utility grid voltage or the 'island grid' voltage (created by the inverter) depending on whether the system is in 'on-grid' or 'off-grid' mode. In the video, it is showing on-grid voltage and it is rather high, but that is what it is in this rural area.
finally a microhydro setup which does 400v. and bats too. some argue how it's safer at 48v but losses are huge. and you aren't spared from 400v anyway i love decent systems tho, it seems like battery room is doorless, is that good, even if climate allows it?
Thanks for commenting, - your noting there is 'no door' is a relevant observation. Climate-wise, the temperature in the battery room is shielded from the worst extremes of hot and cold by being, in effect, underground. For my own interest in the matter, I'm monitoring temperature with a max / min thermometer to see what extremes are reached. Security-wise, not having a door does create a risk - the components of the system could get stolen, - but if they are stolen they are replaceable; the real value of the setup lies in the location and the 'infra-structure', - and nobody can walk away with those !
When it rains, the upward facing cups of the 120 year old wheel fill with water; when that happens the wheel, apparently without any motive force, starts to turn ! It is something I like to see ! Putting a shed over it would deprive me of a small enjoyment ! The wheel has many layers of paint on it, - I don't think it will suffer from being exposed. Thanks for commenting.
I should have pinned my reply to Johnfitzgerald, who asked the same question some time back. It is pinned above now, so you can cease imagining and read the facts ! Thanks for commenting.
Why was the high pitched sound from the turbine again? Is that putting out 400 volts? It is the most meticulous system I’ve seen. Exemplary data monitoring.
Magnetostriction. Magnetostriction is a manifestation of energy loss, in the form of noise, caused by the miniscule changes in dimension that occur in ferromagnetic materials subjected to a changing magnetic field. It is heard as a whine because the permanent magnet alternator (PMA) generates 3 phase ac at a frequency of several hundred Hertz; by contrast mains ac, at 50 Hz, only produces a hum. The generated ac frequency is high because there are 42 stator poles and 56 magnets passing over those poles at approximately 1000rpm. The 3 phase ac output of the PMA gets rectified to dc, at a voltage which is between 220 and 315 v dc, - the variation depending on how much power is being produced, - which itself depends on how much water is hitting the pelton wheel. The noisy whine is only evident at high levels (high that is for this turbine !) when water flow to the pelton wheel is above 2.5 l/s.
If to add each water point of a house to be having the spinning electricity creation at the same time To a power bank? It's nice if have to live this way, then secretly making electricity ownself that bypass their desire of "control" into a bad life experience.
750W is the Declared Net Capacity (DNC) that appears on the nameplate beside the turbine, - so I guess that is what you are referring to. 750W was a calculated number. It is a number that has to be submitted to the UK regulatory authority, which licenses small generators connected to the grid, and has to be submitted before the turbine has even generated its very first Watt ! In actual operation, and with efficiency improvements over the years, the maximum real life output is nearer to 900W.
Thanks for your comment - our paths have crossed before, - when you helped me with questions about your test rig for SMA inverters: ua-cam.com/video/rMyWE5gvq6s/v-deo.htmlsi=OLWYbjDkvSX9E0Nu I still haven't got round to that project ! Yes, you're right about squeezing an efficiency gain with a newer inverter; and the SMA Home Energy set up, centred on the Sunny Home Manager, would allow non-SMA inverters to be used; but I'd lose my ability to capture Bluetooth data via the Webbox, - and also, I have several SB and WB 1200's as spares ! Thanks again for the suggestion though.
@@KEhydro hello! What project was that then? Yes I understand about the web box, I think they did a 2kW high frequency inverter, that could be an option. I think they can be set to turbine mode too. If you keep the 1200 range of inverters cool with a fan they will last decades. I've seen them in lofts when swapping it and they are all crispy inside when I've opened them up. Looks like a great setup you have there. Do you ever run out of power, there are some very useful multi function hybrid inverters out there now, the tech has gotten so cheap.
@@WindyJAMiller thanks for getting back. The ‘project’ I didn’t get round to was to change settings in all my spare 1200’s. I want to make them all ‘turbine’ mode, all have Tstart time of 10 s, and all have the bespoke turbine curve that I have now arrived at as being optimum. See water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/06/optimising-my-inverter-turbine-curve.html It will be much easier to do them all ‘on the bench’, which was why I was interested in your test rig. But I think I have hit upon an easier way of getting a dc supply without your test rig and I plan to do it when we have a bit more sun - because what I propose to do is use the dc supply from one of the two strings of our existing pv. I have yet to be sure that dcV and dcA will be within the 1200’s ‘envelope’, but I think they will be, as long as ‘insolation’ isn’t too great. Regarding a fan for cooling: Hugh P, whom I’m sure you know, also suggested that. I haven’t gone for it though because the very maximum the hydro can feed to the inverter is below the derating that SMA suggest for continuous operation, and so I think myself to be working the inverter within the limits which will ensure a long life. If you have any advice about my planned way of firing up the inverters I want to alter, I’d be very happy to hear it. You’re the expert in this matter, in my view!
People always think of batteries for storage...but technically you could pump that water back uphill to a manmade lake you create when you don't need the power and the lake would essentially become your "battery", storing the energy for whenever you want to drain some off for power.
@@adamfrbs9259 you obviously have never heard of needle valves. should look into how they make nozzles on REAL hydro generators. they dont fart arse around with changing nozzles to "suit seasonal variations".
@paradiselost9946 meh, you've missed the original point. You could store massive amounts of energy my way at essentially zero cost, with minimal loss compared to massive banks of batteries and their inherent losses. Any dry spell and your way is immediately out of luck, my way you can run off the reservoir for as long as you want depending how large you make it. Your way is like solar style, works great until cloudy, my way could run non stop even if the creek dries up for awhile.
@@adamfrbs9259 and you miss the point that my way is the same way its done on a commercial scale and involves no batteries, and as it only uses as much water as the load demands at any time, tends to work on relatively low flow when done properly. the dam is where the energy is stored. the only hassle is governing with as little hysteresis and huntingas possible. people seem to have lost the ability to make things like that with out relying on some microcontroller or other electronics. or wanting wifi connectivity or some sort of BS like that.
How much did this project cost
John, thanks for the question.
The hydro, in 2013, cost £10,387.96 - an exhaustive breakdown of this total can be read at water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2014/12/cost-and-return_17.html
The solar, in 2015, cost £5,649.32
The battery system, in 2023, cost £17,461.05
This is an all inclusive figure which includes all construction costs of the 'bunker' + alteration works to the pre-existing electrical layout + all costs of the kit required.
I will try and do another 'exhaustive breakdown' and write it up in the blog for those who are interested.
There have also been costs for 'supply critical spares' which probably come to £5k, - the idea in having these being that the installation should be good for ± 40 years.
Against these outgoings, there have been 'incomings': for the 10 years the hydro has been working, it has earned £13,070.94 in FiT's, and the solar has earned £2,638.62 over its 8 years, - both figures are up to the present time; each FiT contract runs for 20 years and the tariffs increase yearly with RPI.
Additional benefit arises from the 'cost saving' of electricity not purchased from the grid; you can read my estimate of this in 2018 at water-to-wire.blogspot.com/search/label/Offset where I estimated it was £546 per year.
Since 2018, electricity prices are up, and the battery storage facility has been added, - so that £546 figure will now be too small an estimate.
With the installation as it is now, we have taken only 14.6 units / kWh from the grid since 1st November last year (2023), so monthly electricity bills are now effectively only the cost of the daily charge for being connected to the grid (since 1st April 2024, £0.63 per day, inclusive of VAT @ 5%).
I should add that, except for the solar installation, most (all !) of the work, ie: design, obtaining regulatory permissions, and construction, I did myself, - except where a qualified electrician was required for alterations to grid connections and house wiring.
If I had had to pay someone, it would not have been worth doing but as it was, it gave me a lot of enjoyment, and not a little frustration, to bring it to completion.
Come back if you want to know more !
Thank you for the information
@@KEhydro I'm sorry, but if i'm reading this right. You paid over 33,000 pounds for the setup. You were paying around say 600 pounds per year in electricity from the grid prior. The cost of this setup = around 55 years of paying grid rates. The system MAY last 40 years if lucky though before needing to replace critical parts. You've made back about 15,000 pounds though in incomings is that right? I'm genuinely curious, I just want to know when the break even point is, because if i'm paying 20 years worth of grid electricity up front, and the system lasts that long it doesn't make sense. Thats whats happened to solar here in australia, it costs $20k to setup and over the 20 odd years a good panel lasts (including degradation) it saves you nothing due to their tariffs.
@@deanc6471 Thanks for questioning the financial sense.
I find it an impossible task to work out a financial justification, predicated as it has to be on past details which may no longer apply, and future predictions which are impossible to have certainty about.
All one can do is make a stab at it based on averaged historical grid energy consumption, and using financial data which are true now.
The key figure to get right is the figure for what we would have been paying, at 2024 rates, for energy taken from the grid, if we didn’t have any of the renewables now in existence.
The figure has to be a 'guesstimate', - a 'guesstimate' because it is putting a cost on a situation that doesn’t actually exist, - but I can tell you what my ‘guesstimate’ would have been.
From my records of how much energy we took from the grid before any of the renewables were implemented, each year we took 4,600 kWh of day time tariff energy and 4,000 kWh of night time energy.
At 2024 rates for each tariff, these figures translate to a total cost of £2,350 annually.
That figure includes VAT at the UK rate of 5%.
£2,350 is a bit more than the £600 you were using for your calculation, and it will significantly change the calculation you were wanting to make about ‘the break even point’.
I don’t propose to do the calculation for you, but if you do it, and arrive at a figure, please post a reply.
If you do it, factor in that ‘incomings’ from Feed in Tariff payments will continue until 2033 (for the hydro) and 2035 (for the pv), increasing each year by the percentage change in the UK Retail Price Index.
The increase for the financial year just started is 5.2%, but what it will be for future years you will have to read from your crystal ball.
Another thing you’ll have to consult your crystal ball about is the future price of electricity, - if it goes up, then the time to ‘break even’ comes down.
Let me leave it there; if you’re in need of a good crystal ball, I’m sure Amazon will have one somewhere, probably made in China.
Thanks for your comment, it was a very valid question.
@@deanc6471 A yank here... but for me, my off grid system isnt about coming out on top vs the power company, its that I dont care for the politics of the power company, then add in outages, and service wait times, and spending extra on an off grid system even though the grid is already on my property, was the right choice for me.
Stunningly neat install. Hats off to you or the tradesperson who did it. Deserves many more views than it has. Add micro hydro into the title, that would help 🙂
Thanks for the compliments and the suggestion. I've now added micro hydro as a tag, - having just learnt how to do it !
@@KEhydro what does that mean ?
@@Astrojamus apologies for not replying earlier, I missed seeing your comment. KEHydro was the UA-cam tag I invented for the only other video I’ve posted. It is an abbreviation for Kisiizi Electricity Hydro.
I love the care so obvious in the system. In particular how all the nozzles are organized and labled. Very meticulous.
Appreciate your setup. Well explained and neatly labelled...always think of the next man as my grandfather used to say(a plumber).
This is spectacular. I very much appreciate the way everything is labled for clarity.
...without labels, I wouldn't have a clue as to what's what, and when I'm dead and gone, no one else would have a clue either ! So labelling everything is part of my wishful hoping it could last 40 years or more !
Quite possibly one of the best thought out and neatest installs I have ever seen! Awesome stuff.
Good to see the dog supervision.
Absurdly neat install. Everything buried. Looks way better than all the above ground systems you see elsewhere on UA-cam. Surely this will also survive harsh weather way better
Your video has such incredible timing, I've been exhaustively researching around for the best hydro generator for my new land purchase. With 30m of head, ~6Lps of flow, 60m (converted to your amazing metric system from my dirty imperial of course) of pipe the power spout you are showing is absolutely perfect! We should be returning around 400w only tapping the stream on the property for half its flow. If I keep an undersized jet on to limit flow and therefore keep the creek flowing below the intake for animals and my neighbors (good friends of mine) it should never need changed I suppose? Your spout storage and entire system for that matter are incredibly well done. Good work sir! The only other option I've found is a Canadian company or converting a washing machine motor (which though interesting doesn't look nearly as reliable and clean as an off the shelf model). Also, THANK YOU, for detailing your head and flow rates, that is the most difficult real world data to find in videos of people's hydro projects. Lastly, having checked out powerspouts website, they have the best micro hydro calculator on the internet hands down. This video is so very helpful.
-All the best from the USA!
Peter, - I well remember being at the stage you are at. The 'gestation phase' of a hydro scheme, if it is to be a good scheme, is the most challenging. Don't rush it. For me, learning that Powerspout turbines were available on the market was the piece of the jigsaw that allowed everything to come together. If you choose one, and your scheme's hydrology is good, you won't be disappointed.
@@KEhydro I appreciate that sage advice. We're 9 months away from breaking ground and the research is years in the making already, more site visits to come in over this year in various seasons to get more flow numbers for a good average. My friend who currently owns the land states the flow changes some, but so far our measurements are at what he reckons are during the higher end of things (winter). I'll be getting more flow numbers in summer to get more of an average. And of course, we are installing a bifacial solar array to start out and then get more flow data over our first year before investing in the system. Having options seems to be key off grid. Thanks again.
Extremely elegant engineering. Very well thought through -- especially the thorough labelling! Must be satisfying for you.
A picture says a thousand words, Excellent. 👍👍👍
Absolutely amazing set up totally self-sufficient if absolutely and the worst case scenario grid power was to go down completely, and also prove that you can live without the grid. I tipped my hat to you good sir you have proven that if we can conceive it, he can achieve it👍
That sounds is so peaceful.
Great work documenting!
Fantastic install, lots of thought, planning and work has clearly gone into this. Thank you for making this and sharing it.
this is brilliant, and fantastic filming too!! thanks!
Thanks. It was a first time effort, so your comment is well received.
This is goals. What an amazing setup! By far the cleanest setup ive ever seen!
I love how well documented the components are.
As an electrician and as a teacher, hat off from France 🎉
Excellent presentation, Thank you. Absolutely loving the blog website.
This is awesome!
I've seen a lot of videos about "DIY" Energy Systems, but this is one of the coolest!
This was cool as hell. Neatly done and a great addition to any home. Thanks for sharing✊🏾
Nicely done.
I wished i had land like that to realize something like this.
Respect. Very nice.
This video has been blessed by the UA-cam algorithm. It has been trying really hard to recommend this video to me.
Absolutely a great piece of engineering! Bravo!
These silent movies are great.
Thank you. The truth is I didn't trust myself to doing a spoken commentary, and who wants music in a documentary intended to be informative !
@@KEhydro The video was great, maybe worth doing the audio after when editing the video? I would love to see and learn more about the stream, where it's collected from, and when it generates the most power (what months). The big catch tank. There's so much to learn from this. I've been reading your Blog, but would prefer to listen to you describing it. FIT tariffs etc. Even if it's just a slide show of the installation and voice-over.
@@elliot330 It's all in the blog, - but might take a bit of finding ! Photos of the installation being done are viewable on the access button provided on the blog.
You did great, everything labeled.
Amazing! You are living my dream! For now I'm an electrical engineering student but something similar to your house is my objective! I love it, thank you for sharing!
your video just made my day better! ☀️
Thank you for sharing a great video.
Brilliant use of Solar and Hydro.. Very cool.
A great setup. Thank you for sharing.
This is a very efficient set up bill, I'm impressed.
I'll echo the others regarding great video work, nice fluid movements, I'm not a huge talker either, so probably would have had inserted descriptions too. I've been off grid for nearly 6 years now with SMA gear, this alternative energy is addictive , good luck with any future upgrades !!!
Thanks Andy, - is your scheme 'viewable' at all ? I'd be interested to see what you've done.
Regarding future upgrades here, I feel as if I've now reached the summit that I'd been hoping to get to when still in the valley, - and there's no higher place to climb to !
But technology does keep moving on and creating new goals to aim for, - so yes, I suppose future upgrades have to be a possibility, - if I have the oomph to tackle them !
@@KEhydro Hi Bill, I monitor my system from anywhere, but I don't have anything online for people to view so to speak. Basically I have 10kWp of solar, two 5 kW Sunny Boys and one 8kW Sunny Island. Coupled to all of this are 35kWh of BYD batteries. I do have an EV as well (Kia EV6) which gets charged exclusively from solar and occasionally from the batteries depending on weather conditions. All working superbly well so far !!! 🤠😎
Very nice setup!
awesome stuff you got there sir
Those are some well labeled power components
love the engineering, from the micro hidro-power plant to the tenis ball hanging from the ceiling
Very well done with the install.
Very nice, well thought out system.
Beautiful place!
Thank you dear, you did as a great job as thé great man you are.❤
Outstanding installation, only have solar sadly but a upgrade to that is on the cards
This vid gave me unintentional ASMR
nice setup
This is a blessing, such a peaceful environment. I love water flows and redirecting them to purpose. I have lots of solar panels at roof about 20KW. Although I saw the 85% ratio of the invertor to hyrdro. still I was expecting alot more KW generated through that much of water flow and how fast it was flowing, in no way I am engineer or have background knowledge of hydro just through observation I was kinda of hoping alot more production like 5 6 KW of generation. I suppose with solar you have the sun out and get the KW where in hydro you just have the consistent generation unless it the water dries up. Really loved the setup!! if you were to upgrade 10 years down the track, dont forget to look at Fronius models too if its sold in UK.
This is such an awesome project and Thank You for giving such a detailed information about all the specifications!
Thank you. It is only in the detail that such a video has usefulness to others, and that was my intention in making it.
Great Video!
What an awesome design and a great use of the natural resource of the stream running through the property
old house, yet modern ;) good engineering for sure
Good job!
Thank you.
This is a nice system.
Well thought out. How many reiterations did you go through to get to this point?
Congratulations!
I love it! Makes me wish for some elevation on my property. Mine varies by less than two feet between high and low point.
Try waterwheel system. It can work for you. He is using pressure from the water water; you on the other hand can use the weight of the water to harness energy . You may end up with some few hundred watts but with that 24/7, you are in for a good ride.
Such awesome environments, I love to live there and die there. nature 😊
Very nice
This video was incredibly amazing I learnt a lot. Just a thought or a questions, where the water is going out to the stream again after being used, couldn't you add maybe another or another of sorts but in a lower power consumption? I'm purely curious as to what you think and if it would be possible to do so? I hope to hear fro you.
Very nice setup constant 800w of power + solar later and a 10kwh battery pack could probably run most smaller houses grid free but with the solar pannels I imagine full house like that it would hardly use grid
Our house can only be solar only
both are unfortunately not ideal location front roof is run rising direction (it's not possible to use rear side of the roof due to extention, if we could that would have been 3.6kw on both sides with 7.2kw single dual mppt inverter but unfortunately no)
second one is the shed where I managed to install 3kw on it (it was a pigeon shed it was kinda long until the end of it was removed) , it is technically correct direction but I have the angle quite sloped flat ish due to not wanting to upset the neighbours back garden sun light (they still don't know it has solar pannels on it because put back box on the rack so just looks slightly taller shed with a new roof)
5kw solar with 3600 inverter + 3kw solar on the shed(both are sunny boy 3600 inverters might try getting extra 2 or 4 pannels on the shed, we are allowed 7.2-8kw on export I believe) could do with battery's to handle night time loads
I invite you to look up what Kris Harbour has done in Wales. He has consolidated the nozzles into an adjustable fixture that can be increased or decreased in diameter via wifi given the amount of flow from his stream. I've seen a lot of variety in water turbines, but I think his is the best designed and most resilient (and efficient) set up I've seen.
Hey, an electrician from Germany here.
Realy nice Installation, some things like the 1x insulated flex Wires in your house would't be allowed here in Germany but nothing dramatic.
Just one question/reminder, i cant make out if the earth is normal copper felx wire H07V-K or double insulated NYM-J both should not be but underground especially not for the main earth, because of corosion. It has to be Stainless Steel (V4A) or Aluminium until it comes out of the ground.
I hope that iam not wrong but please check that.
All in all real nice Installation and neat idea.
nice numbers! If you have a AC inverter at the turbine box, you would have almost no voltage drop. and get more amps to the house
Ledbury? fairly local to me.
I have a 600w solar installation i did, nothing to this degree though. I use it to power a portable LifePo4 setup i built that runs on tasmota. It acts as a UPS system and, on full state of charge, automatically cuts it's grid supply to allow consumption of battery (solar) power.
Nowhere near this level of advanced or big, but still, it's a start.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for commenting.
If you're interested, you can read more about Percy Pitman at www.bosburyhistoryresource.org.uk/PH-Percy-Hector-Pitman.html
Love how dirty and almost abandoned most of this stuf looks seems to be minual maintenance. Like it suposed to be
Felicitaciones buen hombre, usted esta listo para ir a colonizar Marte. Excelente video, saludos desde Argentina.
Thanks. Like Johnfitzgerald above I'd be interested in cost and also how often is hrid power required.
Nice countryside...surprisingly not many birds(?)
Peter, - can I direct you to the reply I gave to John F for the costs involved.
Regarding 'how often grid power is required', this is a question that only the passage of time will answer as we work through a full year of having the installation as it now is. You can read my thoughts of how it might pan out at: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2024/02/benefitting-from-battery-storage.html
Regarding 'not many birds' - half of them (the female half) are probably on their nests at this time of year (!) - but there are many about in the woods here.
I saw a Tree creeper last week, - which is a bird not often seen.
THAT TURBINE'S LOUD AS ALL-FUCK, THOUGH
Good reason to drop it 190m downhill from the house. ;-)
Gravity is amazing
From now on when people say they are from Whales, we will think they are living in a shack down by the river.
Narwhals
Captions are nice and all but I would really like to have the transcript in the youtube to use it with my screen reader.
Хорошая работа!!! Моё уважение!! Привет из России!!
Спасибо
I work for a DNO and that is one of the best setups i have seen!
The only thing I would question is why you need dump loads and what they are?
Do you ever actually need to use them or can you throttle your generation down to match your usage?
I would guess that you occasionally do need to use them as your hydro is constant, but it might just balance with your battery set up!
Got to say I am a bit jealous ...... Well done!
Thanks for your comment; coming from a 'pro' like yourself, it carries weight for an amateur.
The loads you refer to are not really dump loads but diversion loads; power is sent to them whenever Solarcache detects power is going out from the house toward the grid connection point; power will leave the house and be fed to the grid in this way when there is more 'home generation' than is required by the loads in the house which happen to be ON at any given moment; and what these diversion loads do is minimise grid feed-in by maximising retention of generated electricity for beneficial usage in the house.
The white boxes you see in the film are 'throttles' controlling the power going to the loads; they are not the loads themselves; the power the 'throttles' feed to their loads is pulse width modulated, and is thus infinitely variable; by having complete control of how much power is fed to the diversion loads by PWM, Solarcache can precisely control what flows out of the house toward the grid connection point., - and this it keeps to ± 60 W.
I keep saying "toward the grid connection point' for a reason: the power Solacache allows to leave the house doesn't actually reach the grid connection point because it gets picked up in the 'Battery Bunker' by the Sunny Home Manager, and is diverted to charging the battery.
Sunny Home Manager is the real 'gate keeper' of power flow at the grid connection point and it rigorously maintains a regime of 'zero export and zero import', - unless of course, the battery SOC is 100%, in which case grid feed-in will occur, - or if loads within the house exceed the power that can be provided by power from hydro + solar + battery, in which case power will be drawn from the grid.
All of this 'operational logic' might be clearer if you study the diagram at the very bottom of this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/12/battery-storage-completed.html
If you want to understand more, do get back again.
@@KEhydro That was a good read .... does that make me a pedant? ;o)
The only thing I would add (small point) is that you seem to have a "White meter" The tariff for this in your situation is not good .... changing tariff might be worth looking at? Especially as it is an old meter (they should be changed every 10 years so your supplier will be looking to install a "smart meter"!
This might not be in your best interests!
@@totherarf There is a benefit from having an old 'spinning disc' white meter, and insofar as there's a benefit, there's a reason for my wanting to keep it. The 'gate keeper' at the grid connection point (SHM) is rigorous, as I've said, in preventing import or export; but it cannot absolutely prevent a few Watts coming in or going out; what it does achieve precisely is zero movement of power at the grid connection point over a period of time; if there was a Smart meter there, every few Watts of grid import that SHM allows to be in-coming would be registered as energy taken from the grid, but every few Watts of export SHM allows out-bound would not wind the digital counter of a Smart meter backwards. In contrast to this, with the spinning disc meter you saw, although it is ratcheted and cannot go backwards indefinitely, it will go back part of a revolution until it hits its ratcheted stop; so with the way SHM is constantly allowing a few Watts in, and a few Watts out, this allows the disc to oscillate very slowly (slowly because we're talking about
@@KEhydro It is nice to see someone who actually understands what they are saying rather than pump out generalisations!
I am in a similar situation, but do import more than I make. When setting it up they wanted me to get feed in tariffs and were surprised when I told them I would store all my excess for a later time! Unfortunately for me hydro is not an option and people would object to any sizeable wind turbine in my area! You have to work with what you've got!
When can I move in the guest house or at least visit for holiday please 🙏
Very nice, well done. Auto nozzle adjustment by an Arduino would be a great next step.
I was wondering how often he swaps the nozzles over the course of the year. I think that even a manually-adjusted nozzle would be much more convenient than having to divert the flow and screw the better nozzle back in.
@@ArnaudMEURET You are right ! - having to change nozzles is something of a handicap - to answer your question, over the last 8 years the average number of changes in a 12 month period is 30, with the range being 39 to 16.
I only change the bottom nozzle; the top one is never changed but it can be turned on, or not turned on, in conjunction with the bottom one.
The top one is machined to deliver 0.3 l/s.
The gradations in orifice size of the nozzles used in the bottom position are also machined to give increments in flow of 0.3 l/s.
With these characteristics, when flow is increasing, I can determine when to place a bigger nozzle in the bottom position by using the top nozzle to 'sample' if there is sufficient water for the next bigger nozzle to be placed in the bottom position.
When flow is decreasing, the time to change the bottom nozzle for a smaller one is determined by noting that the header tank is beginning to be no longer full.
The pattern of how flow changes through the year is remarkably predictable: it is either increasing or it is decreasing, and it increases or decreases in a steady and leisurely way. There are no sudden changes on a day-to-day timescale.
This pattern comes as a result of the source being a spring, which is discharging from groundwater held in the hillside; movements in groundwater levels are never sudden.
Your suggestion of a manually-adjusted nozzle is a good suggestion, - either a conventional spear valve type, or the type which has a variable orifice along the lines of a camera's aperture adjustment.
But either of these would be less efficient than a smooth-walled, straight-through, conical nozzle (by less efficient I mean there would be a greater energy loss at the nozzle) and in a system as small as this, where energy losses need to be kept to an absolute minimum to make the scheme worthwhile, I'm not sure the gain in convenience would be worth the loss in energy generated.
Changing a nozzle is a very quick and easy job, but you do need smallish hands, and as you have pointed out, you do need the perception that it is NOT an inconvenience !
Thanks very much for your comment.
WOW!
super cool, did you set this up? I'm curious how long it would take to complete this setup?
The hydro part of the setup was in 'gestation' a long time before its 'birth'. The dream / realisation that something was possible - started in ± 2005; flow measurements and head measurements 2007-9; gradual conception of a workable design by 2010, over which time, identifying a Powerspout as being a turbine which could connect to the grid was the most crucial advance; 2010 to 2012 was taken up with looking out for and finding, non-new items such as the penstock pipes, header tank, electrofusion kit, highway crash barrier for water gathering, SMA inverter, etc (mostly on eBay); 2012 -13 was the start of actual installation work, and also the start of working to obtain the necessary regulatory permissions (Planning / Water abstraction / Grid connection / Feed in Tariff payments).
Taking the set up as a whole, ie: hydro + solar + battery, it's probably true it has been a lifelong conviction to want to go in that direction; so in that sense, the answer to your question is: a VERY long time !
@@KEhydro awesome I love it, thank you for the detailed response, seems like a perfect project to tackle out there on your land, wishing you all the best for the years to come.
Hi Bill Cave! I'm amazed. Do U have any paper published or any references U used?!
You can find two documents, covering the wiring schematic and the communications diagram for the 'battery bunker', in this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/12/battery-storage-completed.html
The documents come at the very bottom of the post.
The wiring diagram was based on an on-line document from March 2021, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) which you can find at: electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2021/84-march-2021/island-mode-earthing-arrangements-new-guidance-in-the-second-edition-of-the-iet-code-of-practice-on-electrical-energy-storage-systems/
I hope these help you.
@@KEhydro Thanks a lot. I live in south east asia. The potential of RE is high. I'm still in the research phase about RE tho.
Would it not be better if the outflow pipe had a larger diameter to prevent back pressure? Do not ask me as I am not an engineer. Thank you for great video.
As an electrician, I've considered doing something like this for an off grid cabin/home, but is your turbine delivering AC or DC?
I was always thinking of doing a 240Vac turbine, that would feed an AC load center/panel, for powering the fridge, HVAC, and washer/dryer, and some receptacles. Then also 120Vac to 48Vdc charging circuits to feed large battery banks. The battery banks would feed DC sub panels with buck converters for dropping the 48Vdc to 24/12/5Vdc and then circuits for 24Vdc lighting, 12Vdc appliances and convenience, and 5V usb outlets.
This way the turbine would not only power my heavy AC appliances and motors, it would also constantly keep batteries topped off that deliver power to all my lighting, electronics, and anything else I could keep running on low volt DC power.
The permanent magnet alternator on the shaft of the pelton generates 3 phase ac. This ac is of variable frequency because the shaft speed is different for the different flow conditions which occur through the seasons. This variation in frequency doesn't matter because the 3 phase is rectified and smoothed to dc before leaving the turbine housing. The resulting dc power passes to the house at between 200 and 330 volts. At the house an ordinary grid connected wind turbine inverter, though it can also be an ordinary solar pv inverter, converts the incoming dc to 240 v mains ac at 50 Hz. These are the figures for grid voltage and frequency here in the UK.
Best of luck with your project.
@@KEhydro Got it thanks. So probably not able to receive a consistent single phase 240Vac @ 60 hz is what I'm hearing. I'll have to look into it more.. I'd love to find a way to avoid converting AC to DC only to invert it back again for all the AC appliances. Maybe this is not possible...
You would get more UA-cam views if your word font color (white) didn't blend into the back ground. I could not read the words, but it looks like a interesting set up. You should try light green font or box it in with a lighter back ground color, hop this helps.
Before the batteries were installed did all the generated power go back to the power grid?
How long has the hydro generator been in operation?
Good questions John;
I'll write an extended answer because I want it known the system does have limitations.
17th July 2013 was the date when the hydro first ran; since that day up to the present, it has generated non-stop except for an accumulated total of perhaps 90 days (that's an educated guess, but educated by the records I keep); most of the 90 days of down-time were due to early teething problems with the Powerspout's on-board electronics getting damp.
Of course, there has also been time lost from generating by shutdowns for: nozzle changes, stator and rotor changes, bearing changes, de-silting of the header tank, and other maintenance jobs, - but these last a matter of hours at most.
Before the batteries were installed, as much generation as possible was kept 'in house'; this was accomplished by the Solarcache device diverting to its 3 loads, - it doesn't divert to all 3 at once but in a way that can be prioritised and sequenced. But these 3 loads could get to be replete and not accept any more input (because their in-built thermostats clicked open); when this happened, usually on a sunny day, then yes, as you suggest, surplus power then went out to the grid if it was not needed for 'the always ON things' in a house, - 'the always ON things' being things like fridge / freezer / Grundfos pump /etc etc.
The irksomeness about this arrangement, - which has mostly been put right by having batteries, - was that whilst energy was occasionally exported to the grid when the sun was shining, when the sun was not shining, some energy almost always had to be imported from the grid; this happened whenever the loads switched ON in the house were taking in aggregate more power than the hydro on its own was producing; since the power output of the hydro can be as little as 200W at some times of the year, importing happened quite a lot.
The way that having batteries has put this right is that the battery inverter is able to output a maximum of 3.65 kW; so now we can avoid taking from the grid by taking from the battery instead, - BUT only so long as we keep the loads in the house switched ON to be taking less than the power the battery inverter can output (3.65 kW), added to whatever the hydro is producing at the time.
All this does impose a certain discipline on us in how we use electrical things ! My wife accuses me of being an 'energy policeman', - and I am, I admit it. But I've promised her it'll only be for this initial year so we can see whether it's possible to live without taking any grid power. After a year, we'll relax our present rule and accept a few kWh of import.
You can see a graph of our grid usage before and after battery installation if you look at this blog post: water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2024/02/benefitting-from-battery-storage.html. It makes the point of how great the reduction is in imported energy brought about by having batteries.
Further proof that old dogs Can learn new tricks (no offense) :p
Looks good
...yes indeed, - but will the old dog remember how to do it next time; there's the rub !
Does both the water turbine and solar charge the battery?
Yes, both their outputs can charge the battery, and diversion loads also are powered by both.
Very cool system, but maybe you should not label device passwords on the devices themselves and show them on the internet...
Thanks for the advice, - I appreciate your warning. The BYD battery WLAN pw is not unique: it is common to all BYD batteries and therefore I took no precautions to hide it. I don’t think any other vulnerable information is viewable, - at least I hope that is the case !
Now hidden !
Lol I took days just to make my 1500 of solar for my small RV system
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos which means a lot
That one Free energy device UA-cam video, that are not fake.
Is the voltage peak or RMS? Or is it a DC generator?
The volt meter at the turbine reads DC (rectified 3 phase from the permanent magnet alternator). The voltmeters in the 'battery bunker' show battery DC on the right hand one, and 'grid' AC on the left hand. The 'grid' AC one will read either utility grid voltage or the 'island grid' voltage (created by the inverter) depending on whether the system is in 'on-grid' or 'off-grid' mode. In the video, it is showing on-grid voltage and it is rather high, but that is what it is in this rural area.
Where’s the shooting range setup ?!
finally a microhydro setup which does 400v. and bats too. some argue how it's safer at 48v but losses are huge. and you aren't spared from 400v anyway
i love decent systems
tho, it seems like battery room is doorless, is that good, even if climate allows it?
Thanks for commenting, - your noting there is 'no door' is a relevant observation.
Climate-wise, the temperature in the battery room is shielded from the worst extremes of hot and cold by being, in effect, underground. For my own interest in the matter, I'm monitoring temperature with a max / min thermometer to see what extremes are reached.
Security-wise, not having a door does create a risk - the components of the system could get stolen, - but if they are stolen they are replaceable; the real value of the setup lies in the location and the 'infra-structure', - and nobody can walk away with those !
well not much of about getting stolen, that looks like place where that's not an issue, more about some animals maybe?
👍🏻
Have you thought of building a little shed over your 120 year old wheel?
When it rains, the upward facing cups of the 120 year old wheel fill with water; when that happens the wheel, apparently without any motive force, starts to turn !
It is something I like to see !
Putting a shed over it would deprive me of a small enjoyment !
The wheel has many layers of paint on it, - I don't think it will suffer from being exposed.
Thanks for commenting.
Seeing setups like these makes me sad I live in a flat state.
12:14
i stole your wi-fi password. i will now proceed to watch skibidi toilet and funny videos on it.
Not my password; it's BYD's; it's freely available; anybody can know what it is.
Impressive. I can only imagine what it all cost. :/ lol
I should have pinned my reply to Johnfitzgerald, who asked the same question some time back. It is pinned above now, so you can cease imagining and read the facts ! Thanks for commenting.
ASMR for DIYers
Why was the high pitched sound from the turbine again? Is that putting out 400 volts? It is the most meticulous system I’ve seen. Exemplary data monitoring.
Magnetostriction.
Magnetostriction is a manifestation of energy loss, in the form of noise, caused by the miniscule changes in dimension that occur in ferromagnetic materials subjected to a changing magnetic field. It is heard as a whine because the permanent magnet alternator (PMA) generates 3 phase ac at a frequency of several hundred Hertz; by contrast mains ac, at 50 Hz, only produces a hum.
The generated ac frequency is high because there are 42 stator poles and 56 magnets passing over those poles at approximately 1000rpm.
The 3 phase ac output of the PMA gets rectified to dc, at a voltage which is between 220 and 315 v dc, - the variation depending on how much power is being produced, - which itself depends on how much water is hitting the pelton wheel.
The noisy whine is only evident at high levels (high that is for this turbine !) when water flow to the pelton wheel is above 2.5 l/s.
If to add each water point of a house to be having the spinning electricity creation at the same time To a power bank? It's nice if have to live this way, then secretly making electricity ownself that bypass their desire of "control" into a bad life experience.
750w only?
750W is the Declared Net Capacity (DNC) that appears on the nameplate beside the turbine, - so I guess that is what you are referring to. 750W was a calculated number. It is a number that has to be submitted to the UK regulatory authority, which licenses small generators connected to the grid, and has to be submitted before the turbine has even generated its very first Watt ! In actual operation, and with efficiency improvements over the years, the maximum real life output is nearer to 900W.
Swapping that inverter to something new will get you another 8-10%
Thanks for your comment - our paths have crossed before, - when you helped me with questions about your test rig for SMA inverters: ua-cam.com/video/rMyWE5gvq6s/v-deo.htmlsi=OLWYbjDkvSX9E0Nu
I still haven't got round to that project !
Yes, you're right about squeezing an efficiency gain with a newer inverter; and the SMA Home Energy set up, centred on the Sunny Home Manager, would allow non-SMA inverters to be used; but I'd lose my ability to capture Bluetooth data via the Webbox, - and also, I have several SB and WB 1200's as spares !
Thanks again for the suggestion though.
@@KEhydro hello! What project was that then?
Yes I understand about the web box, I think they did a 2kW high frequency inverter, that could be an option. I think they can be set to turbine mode too.
If you keep the 1200 range of inverters cool with a fan they will last decades. I've seen them in lofts when swapping it and they are all crispy inside when I've opened them up.
Looks like a great setup you have there. Do you ever run out of power, there are some very useful multi function hybrid inverters out there now, the tech has gotten so cheap.
@@WindyJAMiller thanks for getting back.
The ‘project’ I didn’t get round to was to change settings in all my spare 1200’s. I want to make them all ‘turbine’ mode, all have Tstart time of 10 s, and all have the bespoke turbine curve that I have now arrived at as being optimum. See water-to-wire.blogspot.com/2023/06/optimising-my-inverter-turbine-curve.html
It will be much easier to do them all ‘on the bench’, which was why I was interested in your test rig. But I think I have hit upon an easier way of getting a dc supply without your test rig and I plan to do it when we have a bit more sun - because what I propose to do is use the dc supply from one of the two strings of our existing pv.
I have yet to be sure that dcV and dcA will be within the 1200’s ‘envelope’, but I think they will be, as long as ‘insolation’ isn’t too great.
Regarding a fan for cooling: Hugh P, whom I’m sure you know, also suggested that. I haven’t gone for it though because the very maximum the hydro can feed to the inverter is below the derating that SMA suggest for continuous operation, and so I think myself to be working the inverter within the limits which will ensure a long life.
If you have any advice about my planned way of firing up the inverters I want to alter, I’d be very happy to hear it. You’re the expert in this matter, in my view!
Great install, but what on earth have you got on your head ?
A Chitrali hat - I recommend one when ambient temperatures are currently what they are !
People always think of batteries for storage...but technically you could pump that water back uphill to a manmade lake you create when you don't need the power and the lake would essentially become your "battery", storing the energy for whenever you want to drain some off for power.
or you could run a synchronous generator at a fixed RPM, with a governed nozzle so water consumption is equal to power consumed...
@paradiselost9946 you wanna swap nozzles everytime the AC kicks on?...., otherwise you have extra power when it's off.
@@adamfrbs9259 you obviously have never heard of needle valves. should look into how they make nozzles on REAL hydro generators. they dont fart arse around with changing nozzles to "suit seasonal variations".
@paradiselost9946 meh, you've missed the original point. You could store massive amounts of energy my way at essentially zero cost, with minimal loss compared to massive banks of batteries and their inherent losses. Any dry spell and your way is immediately out of luck, my way you can run off the reservoir for as long as you want depending how large you make it.
Your way is like solar style, works great until cloudy, my way could run non stop even if the creek dries up for awhile.
@@adamfrbs9259 and you miss the point that my way is the same way its done on a commercial scale and involves no batteries, and as it only uses as much water as the load demands at any time, tends to work on relatively low flow when done properly.
the dam is where the energy is stored.
the only hassle is governing with as little hysteresis and huntingas possible. people seem to have lost the ability to make things like that with out relying on some microcontroller or other electronics. or wanting wifi connectivity or some sort of BS like that.