I am a 70-year-old who got back into the hobby just over a year ago and was surprised how expensive locomotives, rolling stock and track were. I then spent a lot of time online tracking down secondhand and sale items and also found your UA-cam videos. I wholeheartedly agree with the points you made - if we have fun with our hobby and ignore the "serious" modellers, it will grow. Youngsters should ignore the "guff" in the magazines and do whaever they like.
Mike Douglas I totally agree with you, and over the last few months, I have started to build a small shunting layout. I use the budget model railways principles, and any layout is better than no layout. I've learnt so much from you and look forward to continuing my model railway journey through the inspiration I get through your channel. Thank you, guys
Hi Mike and Doug an excellent take on things ,all of which i agree with.I came back to this hobby some 6 year's ago i watched a video of a chap setting up a new layout,i thought i would follow him.He was listing all the bits and bobs he needed when he got to £10.000 i gave up! Luckily i stumbled over your fantastic channel and have enjoyed it ever since.But the best thing you taught me was that you don't have to spend a small fortune to have enjoyment.The model making is the part i enjoy cardboard,newspapers cheap PVA that sort of thing.The Metcalfe kit's are a joy to work on,they not only look better than the plastic kit's,they are nice to build.Of course some of us are better at making thing's than others,but never be affraid to have a go.Cheers Mike and Doug :)
Great rant, agree 100%. Hornby really missed an opportunity with TT in my opinion. They should've made TT a complete "Budget scale", not focusing so much on historical accuracy & more on value for money, with smaller locos & inexpensive generic wagons & coaches. I personally model O, but stick with purchasing kits or mostly second hand. I'm 39 and am seriously considering Kato N for future projects. Thanks for making your videos & helping spread the word about keeping the hobby affordable for everyone. Felix
Totally agree. I arrived back into the hobby some 6 months ago and was shocked nay stunned by the prices of everything. But let me get this right, 1 shop has closed and 1 exhibition is not going to take place and apparently the hobby is going to die! There are plenty of other outlets and shows. The hobby has been around for decades and decades with its ups and downs but it is still here. You don't need the latest greatest or shiniest. Things are changing globally on every level so the hobby has to change also.
100% agree. Here in Australia, I've been debating with myself for months about getting a "cheap" Australian outline pacific. "Cheap" being $300, and the new release has driven up the price of the vintage models to the same or more.
Your post is perfect. Every point is spot-on. Spaces are shrinking, budgets are shrinking, and these manufacturers just aren't getting the message. I read a post the other day where a man was bragging how he's purchasing 20 or more of these high-end N Scale locomotives that cost close to $300 US. Why? I've been a fan of your channel since you started it and I completely agree with your way of thinking. They've been saying the hobby is dying since I started in it over 50 years ago. What's dying is the old line way of thinking. I can have just more fun and enjoyment from a 4 square foot layout as I can a room or basement size. I worked on an N Scale layout at a friend's home for nearly a decade, and when the finish line was in sight, he tore it all out because he realized the monster he had created and he'd spend more time on upkeep than running trains. Seeing all that work destroyed made me ill.Of course the magazine and trade publications are saying it's dying - for them and their old ways, it is. If they'd bother to take off the rose colored glasses and look behind the curtain they'd see there's a whole generation and a movement towards small railways in small spaces. Laser cutting, 3D printing, LED lighting are all adding new dimensions of enjoyment to the hobby. The original practitioners of the hobby were true craftsmen. It seems to be coming full circle. We fell into the snare of shake the box plastic kits and prefab buildings and the price has skyrocketed. The Hatton's situation is a sad one. Why they chose to try and buy a US firm that had been in business over a century and had its own problems is a mystery. The American firm actually had another buyer but Hatton's showed up with a bigger check at the last minute. Thank you for providing a true and factual view of what's really going on in the hobby.
Sailing is in a similar position too many round the cans or big modern yacht types when a yacht like a Shipman 28 or Contessa 32 is more than perfect for some enjoyable pottering sailing. Then there is old dinghy classes like Toppers, Wayfarers etc.
I'm a millennial model railway hobbyist (lol I'm 37) and everything you have said in this video is true. The pivot to affordable trains, smaller layouts, and 3D printing is the future and it's absolutely exciting. I have both a resin and FDM printer and even a laser cutter. A lot of Maker culture is spilling into this hobby, and its great to see the progress of 3D printing tech in the last decade and how it is immediately changing the game for folks who want to run trains. One thing I think that is slightly understated in this video is the importance of not just any video online but GOOD video. So many layouts I've seen over the years have been covered with dated 720p handhelds, when the *magic* of the layout is better caught with more modern video editing, better full frame sensors or even just quality sound. Some of the best maker channels in other hobbies have competent video editing, and I think this hobby will need that as well if it intends to continue this pivot. Being able to see the layouts and experience that fun up close really does grab your attention between the same dozens of vox pop TikTok's with the same dreary subjects.
Mike & Douglas you chaps are spot on as to the hobby today, it's revolving.But some things never change. I had a model railway here across the pond when I was in my late teens to 20s. It was build during the 1970's, another period of high inflation. All my buildings were kits or scratch built. I was trilled that my locos had a lit head light!. You said you were mentioning the high costs of the hobby keeping many people away from it. You were probably ridiculed or doubted by the establishment. Now some are agreeing with you. Much like in 1935 most people thought Winston Churchill was nuts for saying that Hitler was a threat to Europe. 1939, most people were convinced that Churchill was right about Hitler. Bill, old bloke from California
Hi Bill, some of the same people who ridiculed us our now making videos asking for budget ranges, as if they thought of it and it's a new idea lol. The new breed will evolve the hobby and the old guard will die our, as you say that's life, it revolves
Well said, couldn’t agree more. At 75 I’ve just got into the hobby, I spent 30 years flying and crashing re planes, 15 years building scale model boats but our local boat club in Eastbourne has just folded for the reasons you’ve stated. I’m first and foremost a builder so wanted to build a layout in workshop. I started pricing an 00 layout and rapidly decided that it will have to be secondhand. Bought a 4ft by 2ft layout very cheaply and am now expanding it. I’m in the lucky position of being able to buy all new, but cannot justify the expense, your channel epitomises my take on the railway culture and I’m addicted. Can’t go N scale because my fingers can’t cope with tiny. Keep up the good work
Agreed. It is not the model train hobby that is dying, but the monopoly of Rolls-Royce and Ferrari drivers/Macintosh addicts/place your luxury category here over the hobby. With your channel, you had proven that you don't need to put caviar and truffle everywhere to have a good dish. People want pasta (whose cardboard boxes are fine for modelling buildings by the way !), and they don't get it in the retailers of pure caviar. You explores different ways here (second hand, Japanese N...) and that's an evolutionary branch. And an interesting one ! Another one I can see (and you also had a look at it) is the total "do everything by your own" trend : people don't have simple and cheap models by the retailers, so they build them on their own ! 3D printing is mature enough to be helpful for those people. It is something a little bit a back to the origins way. I am writing stories set in northern England in the 1950s, ans my main character is a railway modeller : she build all her rolling stock in OO by her own because no offer in ready to run, like all modelers did in the 1950s and before. We'll be back to this trend, especially when you see that some parts (gearings and motors for instance) are cheaper on the non-model train market than buying specifics for model trains. For the rest, Romford and Kadee will have no problem to stay in business selling wheels and couples (for the second, it is questionable)... For Hattons, I won't speculate, but I can add to the mix that Ms. Hatton might certainly have decided she is old enough to run such a business, and wanted to go into retirement. Also, overseas sales are not their monopoly anytime now, I bought from other retailers in the UK that have no problems so ship to France, that is a salespoint they don't have the monopoly anymore, and a reason for their closure too. Yes, you are right, it is the dinosaur that is the ultra luxury overgadgeted trend of model railway that is dying, not the hobby itself. Mammals like second hand, entry-level models and home made ones will thrive now.
I totally agree with you, I've got a 6ft x 3ft 6 inches OO Gauge DC layout which is not based on a set period so I can run any loco and rolling stock I want. And I only get high priced models when they are on sale, and I never get model railway magazines I use youtube alot to get my information on what new models are coming out and hints and tips on how to improve my layout.
I think your point about more people going back to or becoming model makers is well made. I’ve been an N scaler for over 40 years and I just can’t afford to buy anything anymore. The large number of youtube channels showing people actually making things, scratchbuilding, and maintaining / renovating older stock have been an absolute inspiration to me, so I’m looking at building almost everything else I need myself.
I've felt for a long time that the hobby's going away from the RTR idea and back to the 1940s/50s idea of using what you can to make your layout, the only difference is the tools now are 3d printers and laser cutters. And we're going back to creating the layouts that will give us enjoyment and not those that will impress others.
Yeah, I agree, although after spending years teaching 3D modelling, the last thing I want is 3D printing LOL, I prefer a craft knife and cereal card boxes :). I really like the direction things are going though, I have a few incredible models (after 40 years you do acquire one or two) but I don’t feel that they give me any more enjoyment than the 40yr old coarse Farish Merchant Navy that found 2nd hand for $50CDN that still runs well and looks the part (and it I need to replace the motor in the future, thanks to others on UA-cam, I don’t feel intimidated opening her up and having a go)
Totally agree with what you have said. I have listened to the end as well. I am 69, retired and an N scale modeller since the early 1990s. I have absolutely nothing against the rivet counters, but I personally only want a model than runs well. If I want fine detail, I would learn to do it myself. Today's models are superb esthetically, but not necessarily more reliable, and above all they are too expensive. I will go on buying Metcalfe models as they are indeed terrific and are great to build and modify. They have got it totally right. I loved Union Mills models while it lasted as they produced basic solid models which ran well and didn't cost the earth. There is a huge gap in the market there. Thanks for your excellent channel.
Yes, I very much agree, here, Mike. I would say though the concept of a budget railway is not necessary new. When I was a child with my first 00 set money was an issue - I didn't have any. So model-making, kit-bashing, and improvision tended to be the way forward. I certainly think that this will be the main approach for the future. Great work, and equally great layout in your video. 👍🏼
I built my own controller using DCC EX which is awesome; if I get stuck chat gpt helps me out. I’ll always remember the tetley mills model. It looked fantastic it felt real but most of it was scratch built. I like to recal the bloke had shaped the roofs for coaching stock over bricks in his oven. Love it.
My newest building kit is 80 years old (it's wood, paper, card and aluminum). Bought it at a train show for $1. Last month I purchased a pair of coach kits for $5 each. They are made of wood, card and cast metal and are 70 years old. Is this the 1950's or 2024? I guess we're going back in time to the build it yourself era - Old kits, LASER cut or 3D printed.
I am totally with you that it's simply far too expensive for most new models, so its great to have these new manufacturers (e.g. accurascale, kr models, revolution etc. ) challenging the traditional big boys
I'm in my early 30s and got into the hobby in the past few years and it's definitely not dying, it's just evolving into something more modern, online, simplistic and most importantly, fun!
Excellent video. I 100% agree. I've always been mostly into the electronics side of model railways (sound, lighting, automated routes with sensors, motorised points etc) and that is also absolutely thriving and getting cheaper and cheaper with more and more DIY options. It's also a very international scene bringing together people who model all sorts of things all over the world with a common interest in electronics. I find that refreshing compared to the frequent insularity and pedantry of much of the UK modelling scene. Many of the people saying "it's too expensive" are rivet counting types who are simply ignorant of what's available at the budget end of the market. I actually give Hornby some credit as they do produce budget options unlike any other major OO manufacturer. From their 2024 range: - Exhibit A: 0-4-0 Bagnall diesel shunter for £30 new retail - Exhibit B: Class 47 with DCC sound (I know not your cup of tea but an example that it doesn't have to cost £250+ per loco) £108 new retail Another way to save serious money is to buy cosmetically and mechanically imperfect items secondhand and fix them up. E.g. Even in G scale, which is huge and notoriously expensive, I bought this year: - An 0-6-0 steam shunter for £50 - A massive B'B' diesel with directional lighting for £100 Both were Piko models of German locos, filthy, in need of service and missing the odd hand rail. But after a good clean and correct lubrication they run perfectly.
I wish Metcalfe would start doing O gauge. Buildings in that scale are crazy… I agree with everything you said. Keep delivering budget ideas and you’ll keep getting new subs 😊
I left this comment about a month ago on Sam's Trains, but I think it basically agrees with everything you've just said here: "In my opinion, it started about 25 years ago when "super detailed" models started being released by manufacturers for an, understandably, much inflated price to cover the cost of development. Fine, your wealthy retired civil servant could afford to add these marvels to his collection, while the rest of us were still happy with all our rebranded Triang stuff. But then manufacturers enjoyed the sniff of extra money - and within a decade, all the budget models disappeared, replaced ultra-super-retooled-extra-thingy versions, priced now exclusively in that higher bracket. The hobby became about limited editions and keep the riff-raff out pricing, instead of fathers and sons playing with a train set. Well look where we are now. Twenty years of this type of operation has led to pretty much all casual interest in the hobby disappearing. Toys'r'Us and Smiths used to stock Hornby train sets, but they disappeared from the shelves about 15 years ago due to lack of sales. The hobby will continue to decline in popularity whilst manufacturers remain fixated with producing expensive perfect models that take years to develop, instead of also producing a line of solid, budget "good enough" trains. It's quite telling that every loco me and my son own are either original 70s/80s/90s models, or more recent reuses of those old toolings. With one exception - I treated myself to a Bachmann O4 about 6 years ago for about £160 from Hatton's and whilst it looks pretty, as a working model it's just pretty awful - I've since seen your review of this model and agree whole heartedly about just how bad it is on a mechanism level. To lay out the equivalent of a month's food shop for a model that doesn't really even work is a kind of lunacy I'm not prepared to go through again."
Very well put, exactly the view I have. It's ridiculous to put detail above running quality, I've even seen reviews in magazine saying couplings are included should you want to run it on track. They are just collectors models
Hattons closed because they ran a bad business. They had too many staff, too many overheads and almost no profit. But they’ll never say that publicly. They’ll never admit they are the fault they closed. Also; Hornby Magazine’s UA-cam channel also seems to get 200-300+ subscribers each month too. Start of 2023 it was 32k and now they’re almost near 34.5k. That’s because they’re the best magazine being produced in our wonderful hobby.
I've followed this channel since around the time I saw you guys in the coach shed at HK at the Bluebell. Your enthusiasm is, and always has been electric; in contrast to the DCC channels, ironically, with the odd exception.. A lot of those simply have a show-off mentality, which has always left me cold. Its all down to money, time and space, and youger people, in particular, either don't own or rent the sorts of houses we see older generations enjoy, which i always thought would be a contender eventuality, just not this soon. You inspire. Keep inspiring :)
Absolutely agree with the sentiments in your video. The problem doesn’t even start with existing model railway enthusiasts finding it becoming more expensive - I think the cost of starting a layout, if you only look at the ‘mainstream’ outlets, must appear frighteningly daunting.
When I came back into Hobby, I wanted to model in N for most of the reasons you pointed out above, however the prices of N gauge models in the UK market from my experiance are about the same as the OO equivalents if not more expensive! so I lended up going with OO instead.
Interesting, whilst i chose N gauge on my return to model rail, I found the cost of N to be notably cheaper than OO. So far, savings in N gauge purchases over what could’ve been OO certainly number in 3 figures…
As someone who has a collection of model railway stuff, some dating back to my childhood, i found your comments very interesting and absolutely spot on. I hope to be sble to put a simple layout together in the next year or so, but my concern is that with less than perfect eyesight and minimal manual skills, maintenance of models might be an issue. But i think i would like to have a go, encouraged by your video!
Second point a agree about Warley : lack of volunteers who want to do things. I had seen that as an amateur stage actor in a amateur troop I had to leave for several reasons, the first was I was becoming too busy with my career of novel writer. But anytime you do something relying on volunteers, nine times out of ten, you have to stop because nobody's coming, whatever the activity is.
I came back into model railways from computers, I was playing around with "Arduino" controlling motors, servos, relays, sensors, etc. and model railways seemed an ideal way to expand an Arduino hobby. I live in Thailand and it was easy to order a Kato circle of track d a loco and trucks, add PWM motor control and Bluetooth receiver to an Ardunio and control the train from a mobile phone. I used "Inkscape" to start designing Building, Platforms Etc, printing off and building my own building. So yes the hobby is changing, and it can be cheaper if you forget about rivet counting (and DCC). It could branch into the Ardunio railway modeler, the 3D printer modeler, the Inkscape modeler etc And the DCC modeler trying work out why the idea of "no sections" never quite works by adding dropper wires, block detection etc. when by adding a train to your track you create an occupied section and unoccupied section.
Arduino and model trains are great fun! Even DCC is becoming much cheaper thanks to Arduino-based systems. I recently put together a DCC-EX Arduino-based command station for $17. Secondhand loco decoders are around $10 and new loco decoders with sound are $50 (Hornby's HM7000 TXS series).
Well said and to the point I've introduced my great grandson to model trains a few weeks ago such a big smile on his face and years from now he can look back on that memory more people watch you tube on model trains than buying a model railway book from a news agent for example those shops in blenheim have closed up now watching your channel has more interesting info so I'm sticking with budget model railways cheers from your kiwi friend Mike
Lima was a budget model railway manufacturer and went out of business! I think the way to keep costs down is either select an area and era that most interests you and only purchase products to fit this or just have a twin track oval with minimum non specific scenery and then research and run exact formations of your favourite trains from anywhere and any era.
Nice to hear some positivity... I am 40 years old, and have been in and out of the hobby for numerous years, predominantly back in it though since 2018. Literally since childhood, I have never purchased a brand new, off the shelf item - always second-hand from bargin bins / event stalls, and in more recent years, Classic Rail shop in Ticehurst and Ebay. I love a treasure trove of second-hand model railway items at exhibitions or in shops! OK some might come with some "issues", but that's all part of the hobby... freelance and enjoy your layout for you.
A very interesting rant if that is what you want to call it, you make very valid points. Here is my 2 bobs worth, I'm 70, I got my first Triang trainset in 1959, it was cheap compared to Hornby Dublo. I went through the 60s building a triang trainset with some kit buildings etc, but of course there were more high fidelity kit locos around for the more discerning older modeller. By 1980 I feel things were going along nicely but certain things did change, the advent of the computer and games machines etc. Over the next 40 years there has been an exponential explosion in technology to distract people away from being hands on. I think model railways are very hands on and also an art form, which goes from rivet counter fidelity to a pink and purple layout, in my view that is still art. The 00 gauge modeller has been spoilt for choice with magnificent locos and rolling stock. We had covid which for what ever reason it was seen as justification to raise prices, plus the British economy is a basket case, so to spend £250 on a loco is a load of money to say the least. I'm into building 0 gauge brass locos, not because I'm rich but because over the years I have bought models to build and paint, and I like to build them and say I did it. You mention metcalfe kits, well they are without a doubt fun to build and a model railway doesn't have to look 100% accurate. I admire people who can scratchbuild, be it a loco or a building, but there is a new form of scratch building, so don't see it that way but I do, it's called 3d printing or even laser cutting, yes I could buy a printer or cutter but the real skill is in designing in autocad a model and that is definitely the future. It is also woth noting the model railway shops have been in decline for 40 years or more so it's not just Hattons. Also if interest is that DJH who produced locomotive kits and were the biggest producer have also in the past two months stopped producing kit. Yes, things are changing, and not everybody is interested i n 1950s and 1950s railways or even further back to the big 4 railways of 1923 to 1947.
Mike & Douglas Thanks again for a great video and a very good and well balanced perspective. I have watched your channel for a number of years now and loved what you have done. If I look at the topic of this video and how it reflects to myself I think you are spot on. I started with the railways bug as a child in the 90s with a couple of Hornby sets a 125 intercity set and Eurostar one. then as I grew up they lived in my dad's loft. this was until 2017 when I moved for a job and had a property where I had space so I refund my love again and bought cheap 2nd hand stuff off a well known action site. I then in 2018 joined a local club where my interest grew further. however with ever demanding work pattens vs club open times it was not viable to continue. I had started buying new oo stuff then and building a railway at home as well as things were better financially then and there was disposable income. so I have gathered around 20/30 locos now. but never seem happy with the compromise vs size issues most people have with oo. the two major issues I have is one being stuck in the private rental trap I don't feel I have much security when in property with the current climate and cost of living. so when planning layouts they have had to be smaller and portable but again what I want to achieve is never practical. so never am happy with what I can realistically achieve with the space. Also the current property and the last one we have had to down size due to cost of living issues. The second issue is what `I do next because of the size and expense of the oo collection I have gathered over the last 6/7 years, I feel like I am being forced to make oo work. I think the range and selection in oo is excellent and much better compared to N because over the last 3 years or so I have thought of switching to N gauge but the lack of range of what I would like never seems to be their. I very much am a steam person and my ideal layout would be a sort of current end of line terminus station but with capacity to take big tender engine with run around and a goods shed as would have been at the end of steam era type of station. the trouble I have in 00 is I need about 8 foot at lest to do the station side alone probably around 12foot which I just don't have. So again I am at a really cross roads but I feel a lot of what you have raised in this video is 100% spot on. and true I feel for me if the range of N Gauge would improve more and have more available it would help to make my mind up. What I don't get in particular is when you look at the old style graham farish stuff they have made many of the models before the DCC era so why they can't look at doing more with them to gain a better market of supply I don't know. Sorry for the ramble but I thought I would share my thoughts with you. thanks for everything you guys do and for all the great content.
You are spot on, the hobby is not dying or even changing, it is reverting back to a bit of buy some cheap loco as a present and then kit build or scratch build, PS I am soon to be 76, and as a youngster I had a train set, which I soon modified but found my main interest was Trams. No tram kits in the 50's or 60's but I could buy motors and wheels and axels at Bec models Tooting, and plans and scratch build, much more fun, and affordable. I watch 'OO Bill', and you, very instructive.
Time. Cost. Space. EXACTLY. The hobby is changing and it needs to. Cost is the most important factor that stopped me modelling, all my stuff is in boxes. I'll bring it to UK with me, maybe do something there. If you think it's expensive there, you should see what we pay in Australia. Dear God, I've bought used cars for less than the price of a new loco. Your channel has shown what can be done in limited space and budget. You've been pioneers in keeping the hobby real and affordable but always with a view to making the hobby fun, and not a chore. As is often the case, major manufacturers seem to misjudged how a hobby evolves and changes, they don't seem to understand where the core element now is, and what they are looking for. That many manufacturers sell their products for higher prices than ever, and manufacturing was shipped off shore to China so production costs should be lower than ever, yet companies seem to be struggling? It tells me they are looking in the wrong direction. Great video, very good points.
Priced a DCC controller the other day $700+. Instead I bought a $7.75 DC motor driver, only up to 16v 1.6amp, dual output. Have to write my own software to drive it but I have experience with electronics/software. DIY Model trains has always been my reason I got into the hobby. Got 12 pairs of Atlas N wheels for $14, printed 5 wagons in 3 hours for 62gm of resin. Heaps of 3D printing issues but that's part of the fun figuring it out, plus once I figure out Makehuman and Blender I can make my own figures in any pose and any accessories I can make or download a 3D STL model of. Nice Kato BoBo, unit wonder what the wheel spacing are? Remember when everyone's starter set had a 0-6-0 Switcher? 0-6-0 mechs are great to hack for other locos. Going to check out those Metcalf buildings, cheap buildings on my radar now, thanks.
Look up DCC EX++ , open source DCC, it's accessible to even non electronic engineers, also Modaled Lib another electronics control project with all the heavy lifting done.
The points complication is so true, newbies are told you HAVE to rewire points, get point motors with switches built in and ensure it's setup to "run well". Was really off putting and delayed any start to building a layout, would need to learn electronics and soldering first to just run a train 😂 Was refreshing to seeing how well your locos run on your layout with just the points and nothing else altered!
I totally agree with you, I have only been modelling for about 8 or 9 years, and things are getting very expensive, so I have started to build my own model buildings, yes I brought rolling stock and paid a lot of money for them, lower prices than they are now I should add, but I am enjoying the model making now and building the layout my own way, I am in my mid 80's so you are never too old to start.
This is the best commentary I’ve heard on this issue. I got into the hobby last year after watching the Pete Waterman tv shows on Channel 4. I then picked up a magazine and saw the Metcalfe brewery and I thought ‘That’s what I want to build.’ And now I have an N gauge layout. It’s the modelling I’m enjoying, the rest of it is sometimes interesting, often challenging and frequently over my head. But so far I’ve built track, kit wagons with decals, and loads of Metcalfe! What I would say is that I joined the n gauge society and have found them nothing but friendly and helpful. I went to the final Warley and chatted to so,done on their stand and he said ‘Build whatever you like. There are no rules.’ So I think, even among the ‘traditional’ wing there are many who aren’t dogmatic about the right way.
Hi Mike, I agree with you completely. I like a comment on another channel (Thundermesa), he focuses on “believability over realism”. I model Australian Railways and our interstate freight trains are over a kilometre long, that’s over 11 metres in HO scale not easy to realistically replicate on most home model railways. Covid brought me into the model railway hobby, buying things at on line shops or EBay. I had yearned for a model railway for a long time. UA-cam & Facebook and channels such as yours have inspired to me keep modelling. Cheers Peter from downunder.
3D printing is a revolution, can print a model and follow along with UA-cam painting tutorials, its almost like paint by numbers. Back in day , save a long time for Faller model, fail painting , give up. Static grass is another innovation, tip, air ionizer module, so much more satisfying than coloured sawdust. Electronics, really expect to see manufacturers catch up with open source community, Modaled Lib, DCC throttles on phones, train cams, easy automation. Thanks Budget Model Railways for getting me back into it, the throw plans in bucket and lay some track out , really is way to start.
Totally agree. The hobby isnt dying, its the ' rivet counting and buy 200 ponds plus model s ' lot thats dying out , ive started to build a very small Inglenook style layout as live in a modern flat so like alot of people now not much room , so even a ' 6 by 4 ' layout like these people say you must have i cant fit , also i havnt bought one of the railway models magazines for years now as its all about those high end locos and about ' High end jct ' in june 1956 on a monday afternoon ,and like you say i find all my inspiration on line and u tube and thanks to you too as your channel has given me so many ideas and help , and think the budget railway hobby will grow and all the Big model companies will change or sadly their go out of business as its a changing marketplace now.
I couldnt agree more with this,I am getting back into model railways after 30 years and seeing how pricey is, it limits my choices as to what I want to do. I love watching your channel for the past year or so and gone back and watched all your old videos too, the best channel out there for our hobby!!!
Caught this as I was repairing a second hand model. I started in the hobby in the seventies but fell away as prices increased and the rivit counters took over am returning as a result of social media (I'm just over 60) Very please to hear your comments and agree with them all. I do remember when Railway modeller catered for young people (when I was in that demographic). Keep up the good work.
Love your channel was really especially helpful to me as a beginner picking up lots of tips. Bought two of your BMR DC controller boxes. I’ve been building my first ever layout - it’s ON30 Narrowgauge; 2 m x 1 m layout which can be winched up to the ceiling when not being used for a period of time. As many of your supporters will know, On30 is regarded as the “black sheep” community part of the model railway fraternity 😂. Yes I do have some expensive DCC geared locomotives like the Bachmann Shay, Climax and Heisler but many of my others have been acquired very cheaply; and converted using some laser cut wood parts. Being narrow gauge you can get away with quite small layout size to suit the majority of modern houses - but with really good sized locomotives without having to drop down to N Gauge sizes; unless space is extremely limited. And many of the critter type (i.e. anything goes) locomotives, 0-4-0; 0-4-2 locos will cope with very tight radius curves.
I could not agree more. I love 3D printing items for my layout and for my friends at my club. There are more small suppliers working from home supplying us on eBay etc. It’s change, get over it and get on with it. Enjoy your model railway.
What a sound and balanced viewpoint, well voiced Mike and Doug! On the strength of this video, I have subscribed to your channel. Thank you for posting this gentlemen 👍🏻😊
Mike. Bang on. I've always been budget. Mum sold her Triang TT in c.1970/1 to buy me Hornby OO when I was three/four years old. I still have it all (admittedly packed away in the loft at the moment)- AND her plywood almost 6' x 4' board with sun shadows of where her TT layout was pinned to it from 1950s/1960s in the garage!). I love looking at Bob the rivet counter's results at shows and in magazines and admiring it, but have never had the disposable income (or skill for that matter 🙂) to throw at it. I like the idea of fantastic/ imagined locations - such as Bramble Bottom and the late Derek Reeve's mouse-populated layouts - we need more of this. Not sure *I* would go as far as pink and purple (LOL), but the spirit of it is right. We should champion these "mavericks" (Have a look at Bob Downes' Tippy Ashcroft). I grew up borrowing P D Hancock's narrow gauge model rail book from the public library as often as I could. George Williamson and his North Wales narrow gauge is a little rivet counter-ish - but he works at speed, shows and admits his mistakes on his UA-cam channel and is very much "new guard" in that: shows how. And you're right: we have many more calls on our time these days. I have sooo many started projects. Thank you for what you do and keep banging the drum for budget. Chris/.
The very nature of BMR is why you are going from strength to strength. People in these difficult times are looking for a bang for their bucks as well as the satisfaction of building layouts and modelling. there in. I gave up buying the " Model Rail" magazine because of its price and the large number of advertisements that it contained. All that you have said are points well made Mike keep up the fight for us little people.
Nice video and i completely agree. Ive been following you guys for a few years on Instagram now as ive always agreed with your take on things. I have been buying everything second hand for about 7 years now. Im happy with the level of detail of models from 20 years ago and i enjoy weathering and adding the details to improve them. As a beginner i feel it has improved my modelling skills too. The glass is definitely more full when i buy a new loco for £60 as opposed to £220.
Similar situation in wargaming. Certain companies price gouging relative to inflation for a number of years has priced out more and more of their target clientele, people becoming disenchanted with the creative direction certain companies take, people noticing the dumbing down of certain companies offerings and now there is a multitude of hobbyists going their own way with 3d printing and homebrew rules
I couldn't agree more Mike. All I want to do is build a layout that is a fairly realistic approximation of the real thing and that is what I've done, it's not perfect but perfect isn't what I want.
Couldn't agree more. I haven't bought a new locomotive or item of rolling stock for 6 years (and even that came from Hattons' bargain bin for £45). Budget is my biggest motivator and it was incredibly daunting when getting back into the hobby to be told that I'd need X, Y, and Z item (and the ability to pay for said items) just to get started. Watching channels like yours and joining the Micro Layouts group on Facebook showed me that, actually I already had everything I needed to build something I could enjoy. You're right that we are seeing a return to model making, scratch building etc and it's only going to be a good, healthy thing for our hobby. I never saw the point of Skaledale etc because all it ever does is reinforce the belief that I could never make anything of that standard. At the end of the day, it's evolution and as long as there are people practicing and enjoying model railways then the hobby can't die. Bit of a rambling answer but hopefully you get the gist - accessibility is key to everything.
I agree with you with respect to the hobby is not dying. I would respectfully add that there is no wrong way to enjoy the hobby, and I for one welcome the rivet counters, if only because they end up passing on excellent models at knock down pre-owned prices, if not on Hattons, then on Ellis Clarke Trains. That said (tongue firmly in cheek), I would also add that I am in the camp of greatly enjoying OO in large part because of the huge second hand market, and I am very lucky to have a lot of space (40 x 8 ft). I may one day transition to TT if money and my time on earth allows me to complete and get bored with the current project. I doubt I will go 'N' gauge because the things that I strive for and give me joy are the sensation of a train ever so slowly and smoothly pulling away from a standstill, and the sound of the engine in those moments.
Well said Mike. I totally agree with everything there. I've just purchased a couple of this Kato freelance pocket line freight sets for the 'Cruel Sea' layout that I'm building on my channel at the moment. Those little locos are probably the best runners in my collection and I picked both sets up for under £40 each. It's inspirational videos like yours that will keep this hobby alive and well and also most importantly accessible to all. Well done mate. See you at Sompting in May. Jason
When all us baby boomers pass away, the hobby is finished. Lots of second hand stuff will be flooding the market. Way, way to expensive now, we are being ripped off. Over a £1oo for a sound decoder, which is made of components that come to £2.50.
Agree with everything g you have said and pointed out. In New Zealand everything g is expensive, but….there are cheap items to be had if your building from scratch or from a kitset. I have the Kato basic starter set (bought in Japan new for NZ$80!), Got the Kato budget steam engine with carriages and ran that for a coupe years. Now I have a resin printer and things have really gotten fun…I now have a 3D printed 009 Ruston with 3D printed slate wagons in an Inglenook layout running on a Kato uni track. It’s about as freelance as you can get but I love it. The model railway scene is changing…for the better, it had to happen I think. Love the channel and look forward to more vids to inspire me!
Fantastic video. I 100 % with everything you said in this video. Evening is way too expensive and there is no need for some of these models to be over £250 for a simple DCC ready locomotive
True for most manufacturers. In fairness to Hornby they have a Class 47 equipped with DCC sound and Bluetooth for £108 in their 2024 range. I reckon that's good value.
@@BudgetModelRailways There are plenty of non-DCC options too. E.g. Class 40 for £76, Class 59 for £77. What makes that 47 with DCC sound so special is that it's £20 cheaper than buying a DCC-ready loco and adding the decoder yourself.
I agree with some of your comments but not all. Some of the most fantastic, high quality, fully detailed and yes complete with rivets, models I’ve seen are those built by model makers either from kits or scratch built or modified from cheap ready to run. Same with scenery, it doesn’t have to be expensive, people use natural materials and dirt from the back yard. I think there’s quite a difference between model makers and collectors. I’m a relatively new modeller and learning as I go but from the start I’ve wanted to do things with high standards, I’m not content to chuck it together, I want it to look realistic and for me that’s more about art in many ways, about choice of colour and composition. It can be just a diorama or a small or large layout that doesn’t matter. I’m not saying you can’t just put some track down and run some trains and have fun, I like to do that too but my layout build is taking time because if I’m not happy with something I’ll do it again. The model shows I go to are all extremely busy and well attended and I keep meeting more people who enjoy model railways. Warley was too expensive in my opinion for what it was and a lot of that is because the NEC is a rip off. Totally agree with you about the volunteer side though, it’s hard to get volunteers although not impossible.
All the locos I've bought have been older hornby and lima ones that are spares/repairs off ebay. There's rarely a huge amount wrong with them and there's some great repairs channels on youtube like OO Bill. They're easily detailed and weathered for a fraction of what a brand new loco would cost.
99.9% agree, you could also add the pandemic as one of the reasons active volunteers are in short supply. several groups I know of never really recovered after it. Keep up the good work.
Well said! I have recently turned 60 and am looking forward to building my dream layout. I started as a young boy and all I had was some pocket money and the odd birthday present. Built things from balsa wood and cocktail sticks and had great fun and learnt a lot. I am fortunate to be able to afford the occasional special model, but I buy lots second hand because I recognise models are overpriced. I have ditched magazine subs and follow lots of brilliant modellers online. Finally as someone who has worked in education all their life, I appreciate the future belongs to the young. Listen to them!! The hobby is alive and well and has learnt survival means adapting and evolving!! Ps I model N gauge and have just subscribed to your channel.
100% facts on all of it. Got 31 locos in my collection right now. 2 are 3D printed OO9 locos, 19 are pre-owned, and most of the remaining 10 were in the 100 pound range. 99.9% of my rolling stock is pre-owned, a kit, or was just low cost anyway. All my buildings are Metcalfe. Going for the stuff that's cheap but works is the only way I've been able to grow my collection as fast as I have. I think the most obvious problem w/ off the shelf "budget" OO is the pricing of ancient toolings that just keep getting re-released and manufacturers thinking that's good enough. A Hornby 14xx for 75 RRP is absurd considering that tooling is originally from 1980. Those things are old enough to be a dad whose kid is graduating from college this year.
Quite agree (although I am highly guilty of the pile of lead /kit stash). While the super-detailed models are nice, for most people they are just not within budget. There is nothing wrong with a more affordable model, that if you wish, as time & skill allow, you can convert & detail to represent the loco you desire. It will also be something you can take more pride in because you have done it, not just spent the money! I have noticed on some channels a tendency to do detailed scenic effects (Literally worrying about blades of grass) but would not touch their locos or rolling stock. Another problem with the high prices, do you take the risk to modify even the smallest thing. Because if you muck it up you may ruin something it has taken you months to save for. That may also result in a non-runner if the warranty is held to be invalidated.
I largely agree with your view and have a number of comments but perhaps want to start by picking up with your reference to the magazines. I can remember buying Railway Modeller back in the 60s and one of the inspirational layouts was the original Berrow branch. It was an L shape terminus to fiddle yard in, I guess, something like 8 foot by 6 foot. It was far superior to my oval Hornby Dublo 3 rail train set but it was inspirational because it felt as though I could achieve something similar with a little effort. I now get my magazines on line and have just looked back at the last 6 issues of the RM. Its Railway of the Month for the last 6 months have all been layouts with a minimum length of 6 metres. The minimum widyh has been half a metre. They all seem to be of high fidelity museum quality but I fail to see how they could inspire todays 10 or 11 year old to think "yes, I can achieve that". I accept that buried in the magazine there will be smaller, more basic layouts but they are almost an afterthought. If RM and BRM etc want to remain relevant they should start to feature models like the one you are running in the background of your video as Railway of the Month and show how anyone can get something working as a first layout in a relatively short timescale.
I wanted a Siphon G on my small layout. Not wanting trouble with wheelers etc. I bought the Accurascale one. I didn’t like the price but it was all I could get new. When it arrived I realised how much I had paid for detail that I couldn’t see. So when I wanted some Mk 1 coaches I went to EBay and got three for the price of one new one
i'd love to do a full run in 00 but i've got no space, so i've decided i'm going to do a small 009 layout and not modelled on anything,in fact i'm thinking of doing a steampunk/post apocalyptic look to the whole thing.
That sounds great- I trust you'll be giving Hornby's Bassett-Lowke "Steampunk" range a wide berth... given that it was just 1980s toolings with a few gears stuck on the side!
@@Eric_Hunt194 it was a great idea and the guy who came up with it meant well, but poorly executed and priced. I believe the same happened when they tried a girls range at some point. All people want to bring them in the hobby are cheap reliable locomotives
Agree. The current crop of MBAs just are not equipped to run a model making business (or a pub it would seem). I started out in the 1960s with Airfix kits, pocket money prices and sold by my local news agent. They had a magazine (the original not the re-hash) full of 'how to' articles and we all enjoyed having a go. On the railway side things were more expensive but the idea of making things (rather than buying them) was by then firmly entrenched. The big layouts in the magazines were inspiring but I was never going to build a Buckingham or a Madder Valley. The rolling stock had 'working features' (mostly opening doors as I remember it) as did some of the scenic items (working, well hand wound, conveyor belts, cranes that worked etc.). The problem then was poor running locomotives, having saved up for ages to by an 0-4-0 Polly loco I discovered it didn't run very well and then the engine stopped working. I still had the two second hand locomotives my Dad bought for me (I still have one of them) but interest waned, I wanted a model railway not an ornament and my friend's (dad's) clockwork set was just so much more fun. So, yes, a budget range would possibly be of interest and N Gauge is better suited to British houses than OO/HO (but those Peco kits have gone up a bit in the last decade, it started with the 16 ton mineral wagons).
I do agree even though I'm 76 and been involved with model railways for 70 years.New locos have been just too expensive for me even when I was earning.Ive gone down the .H0/009 route most of the stuff is second hand or purchased from Norman Hatton 50years ago.
Absolutely agree! I love the idea of making my own little world and having all of the trains running being something that came out of my brain. I unfortunately am in the US, and the locos i have were mostly new and quite expensive (most were gifts but still), and OO stuff is not as available here. I am highly considering selling some of the stuff I have that didn't get demolished from being shipped by amazon (bleh) to get some locos that are simple and easy to paint and modify. Its a little bit of a shame since a lot of the real life engines I really enjoy (like the thompson l1) just arent available in budget friendly ranges, but i think making an engine my own outweighs that by a LOT.
Gotta put my hand up and say I was originally a model buyer as you've described...however with huge spikes in loco prices (railroad costing more than I'd pay for premium!!) your guys' channel has massively inspired me, thanks to your tutorials I'm scratch building my own station buildings and platforms and looking at older coaching stock and ways to upgrade on the cheap. Thanks very much fellas. 😊
I totally agree with your comments. I also manufacture products using 3D printing and laser cutting for model railways in South Africa. When I started I made the conscious decision not to do super highly detailed models, I wanted to manufacture products that looked good but at a reasonable price.
Totally agree with everything. I fell for all the Hornby TT:120 advertisements and 15% off membership etc etc to find eventually the prices of HORNBY TT to go through the roof so I made the decision to stop modelling it and sell it on before the prices just took over. I’m back to basics now modelling 00 second hand DC and I couldn’t be happier. I don’t understand why Hornby can’t release railroad models at £60 for example class 37/40/55 etc railroad flying Scotsman the list goes on, if they sold these at £60 for the old tooling models with modern motors they would sell 1000’s instead of these high end DCC sound £237 for a 08 releases. It’s got to change. Great video guys as always.
I was the same with TT, but stopped before committing once I saw what was happening to prices. I fully agree with what you say, but I doubt it will happen
Same in Australia, cant get enough of the kits to build, and cottage industries are booming, particularly the 3d printers. Sales of over detailed 150 function sound locos are sitting on the shelf.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head. I came back to the hobby with the start of TT120. Because of the limited range (it's growing), I started down the modelling route. I have made over 100 wagon kits and a similar number of building kits. It's a hobby in its own right. I buy everything online. My local model shop is a chore to get to and as you say, run by OO snobs. I was literally jeered and told to leave when I admitted to modelling in 1/120th scale.
Agree totally Mike. What I would like to see is a budget range of UK outline in HO. Something like the old Tyco. I run mostly Hornby but I also run Lima HO and Tyco HO and it would be nice to get rid of the OO/HO thing. I live in Australia and own only one Australian outline train and it is an old Lima and that is because of price.
Well thats the first time I have heard someone who is actually prepared to stick his head over the Railway Wall and say it how it is, agree with your views completely and so will the majority of Modellers who simply love our Hobby and indeed love your Channel as you have so varied types of Videos to interest everybody, also what always aggrieves me is these channels on UA-cam who show off and always must have the latest Models and accessories but don't buy one Loco they buy 2/3 at a time along with not not just 3/4 Wagons but 20 plus at a time, you know who these people are as they regularly post Videos showing off in the most unsavoury way, and by doing this they contribute to keeping these prices artificially high giving no chance to young modellers trying to make there way in the hobby, they look at this and just say that they cannot compete with this situation, Great Channel, and you have got a great young Man in the wings to keep the interest going, regards, Colin.
I agree about the show offs. Some chap on insta saying he couldn't resist a Wagon at the cheap price of £40 so bought ten! It just casts a false narrative, and I bet he wasn't married, I know what my wife would have said lol
Interesting take on the hobby. I definitely agree that it will charge, and that it's thriving in its own way. I'm lucky that the cost of premium locos, carriages and wagons in N doesn't put me off. But there needs to be accessible options too. It looks like another show organiser has stepped in to fill Warley's space in the calendar. There are plenty of other retailers who are probably delighted to have Hatton's former customers. Ideally, the new generation will find a way to maintain the sense of community. Even if that's not through a physical club that meets on Tuesday evenings and Sunday afternoons.
Couldn't agree with you more. Main stream models are out of the range of most pockets and really do only appeal to the rivet counters. I just want a model that is reliable and doesn't require I take a 2nd mortgage out!
Hi Mike, I totally agree with you. Thank you both for driving "Budget model railways" forward. I enjoy making kits and saving money. Kato is a perfect brand - great value, well designed and it works. I work in N (Kato USA outline), GN15 and, surprise surprise in 1/35th scale, building Smallbrook Model kits in this scale (and GN 15) using the cheap but reliable Hornby 0-4-0 chassis (Chinese made because they are better runners). Smallbrook kits are basic, but part of the fun is adding more detail. 3D printed figures are also a great source that's blooming.
I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for the last 15 years. I said for a long time now whenever you go to model train show full of all guys and I am over 50, so when I think someone’s old you know they’re not exactly young all the exhibition layout mostly run by old people, I have never been part of the rivet counting ultra elite part of the hobby pretty much every locomotive exception of I think three and I have about 200 odd locomotives. I’m pretty much all the role in stock all came secondhand over maybe 15 years of collecting and I think it’s more fun when you decide you want to buy a particular locomotive to search around your local hobby shops search around your local area eBay other online auction sites are available to find the golden nuggets to find the bargain is more fun. I enjoy that as much as running the trains but your points in this video, I 150% agree with
Hi, I am autistic, and I really agree. I have always wanted a model railway but never had the space until now. I was given some things when I was younger, but all incomplete, but now are. I decided to sign up to eBay in 2021, and found lots of bargains, and still do occasionally. Every locomotive that I have is either Tri-ang, early Hornby, or Lima. I was given the dummy car for the Tri-ang class 101 DMU, I never thought I would have it complete, then on eBay, I found the power car, and the center coach. I got my favourite, early Hornby class 9F Evening Star. I now have nearly 30 locomotives, and I wouldn't trade them in for any of the new rubbish. I have seen some of them, you can't give them to children, they are so fragile, and easy to break. I watch a UA-cam channel where videos a done about maintenance on them, the new stuff is too complicated to do any work on them.
Having watched your channel from the start I totally agree that Boring Bob is ruining it for everybody. They said it was the "grey pound" that was driving the prices but being one of these I can tell you that I will not pay over £100 for a loco and thats were the main suppliers are falling down, they do not cater for anybody else. Keep up the great work you two. Frank
Totally spot on Been watching your posts for years You know what the scariest word in the dictionary is it's "CHANGE" and if they don't they are finished Take care and keep the posts coming
Sweden here: Agree 100%. I also believe that the Communities on social media need to connect, perhaps country-wise. I have no contacts over here at all, except for Boring Bobs....
This is exactly what I have been saying. The inexpensive options (ie Lima) I had as a teenager in the 1980s disappeared only to be replaced with high detail and very high cost limited edition run models. Love building Metcalfe too, fantastic kits.
I'm part of the millennials who love the hobby, I'm only recently 32 years old, the only steam locomotives I've seen are in museums or preservation lines... Only once in another country have I seen steam working on a proper railway, so fair to say in terms of modelling them I just like to model what I fancy, in terms of the hobby changing yes it is undoubtedly in all the ways you've mentioned, I feel like there is another way it's changing, I've seen companies like Rapido and Dapol more willing to do fun/requested models and that's actually keeping interest alive, for example I had no interest in the Rapido SECR O1 0-6-0 locos however when they showed it in the "What If" rejected livery of "Bramble" I fell in love with it and so did a huge number of people on social media, so Rapido listened, bit the bullet and are now actually making it because pre-orders have been made for them in enough quantities to justify manufacturing them. It just goes to show that if big manufacturers *cough Hornby cough* actually listen to the current new wave of modellers there will be a solid revival of the hobby. As for me I just see something I like and enjoy it, I'm not here for historical accuracy, I'd much rather be happy watching my various trains from various regions and abroad zipping about a layout of my liking 🤗
I like fine models, but for building a layout I prefer to do my own card buildings because I’m not limited to what kits are out. As for the rolling stock, despite being young my skills with technology are not good, but I find useful the old skill of using styrene sheets which I think could be a link between the old generation with the new for all the experience they have with it
Pretty much agree with all that you are saying about the shift in direction the hobby is taking from museum quality rtr to "budget modeling". I am curious on your views about DCC and DCC + sound. Those are nice and do get a lot of attention, but they also drive up costs of locomotives and controllers ... so when you are spending that much on a locomotive with DCC/Sound, it starts to make sense to also have a good, accurate model. I have been exploring the "budget" version of sound ... placing speakers under the layout with cheap sound cards from China to provide sounds (rail gate crossing bells, machine shop, station announcements, etc. I have also seen (but not tried) several groups who are building their own DCC controllers using things like Arduino micro-processors and such ... I think that there is a lot of potential in those areas ... with direct crossover to future occupations (i.e., robotics, A/I, etc.).
The problem with DCC and sound etc is it adds huge costs, and now you can't get a basic loco without them, so there is no alternative. The Piko loco is cheaper because there is no DCC or sound. If I ever do sound it will be a seperate speaker under the layout using as you say cheap electronics from China
I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the ready to plonk buildings and the high end locos and wagons, but even i've questioned the value of bachmann or hornby rolling stock at the prices they charge for what is essentially old tooling. If accurascale can charge £160 for a dcc ready loco with all the features and highly detailed or £60 for a brand new tooled mk2 coach with lighting then £50 for a coach from the main players thats older or a base loco for £100 - £150 doesn't seem value for money. Even i still keep an eye out for decent quality second stock as i'm modelling more unusual traffic, but even that seems difficult to find at sensible prices these days. Keep up the amazing work and telling the right story!
As you say even those that can afford are beginning to question the prices. I've actually nothing against the high end stuff but it needs to be balanced by a comprehensive budget range, which we don't have
@@BudgetModelRailways have to agree. Perhaps theres a market there for an existing company to simplify some of the cad designs they've produced for sale to the home printing market, or purchasing older tooling to make true budget ranges. Clearly the market is there.
Yah where I'm from the model railway industry is thriving, there's a model railway store at a local mall and parents buy cheap N gauge starter sets for young kids all the time. British manufacturers seriously need to take a case study on Kato and Tomix, they produce nearly every modern image Japanese EMU at very affordable prices. The British market can stick with OO being the mainstream, don't think space is nearly as limited in the UK, they just need some budget models that are not ancient Lima toolings. The Piko Hobby range is a good example for manufacturers to follow. Frankly I'm surprised Hornby still hasn't done anything like that. Railroad Plus is a nice step but not enough to save the hobby. What's mind-boggling is Hornby made an Amtrak Avelia Liberty starter set using the Lima AGV tooling, why not do something similar for the UK? They literally have measurements of the IETs and FLIRTs on their hands, a cheaper design-clever version without all the bells and whistles will perform well with beginners and modellers who don't want to folk out silly money.
I agree 100%, Japan is showing the way. Doug has switched to N because the Kato Ice 4 was so much cheaper than the UK equivalent, and a better runner. The new Kato Wagons are about 30% cheaper than the UK ones
I am a 70-year-old who got back into the hobby just over a year ago and was surprised how expensive locomotives, rolling stock and track were. I then spent a lot of time online tracking down secondhand and sale items and also found your UA-cam videos. I wholeheartedly agree with the points you made - if we have fun with our hobby and ignore the "serious" modellers, it will grow. Youngsters should ignore the "guff" in the magazines and do whaever they like.
Mike Douglas
I totally agree with you, and over the last few months, I have started to build a small shunting layout. I use the budget model railways principles, and any layout is better than no layout. I've learnt so much from you and look forward to continuing my model railway journey through the inspiration I get through your channel. Thank you, guys
Thanks
Hi Mike and Doug an excellent take on things ,all of which i agree with.I came back to this hobby some 6 year's ago i watched a video of a chap setting up a new layout,i thought i would follow him.He was listing all the bits and bobs he needed when he got to £10.000 i gave up! Luckily i stumbled over your fantastic channel and have enjoyed it ever since.But the best thing you taught me was that you don't have to spend a small fortune to have enjoyment.The model making is the part i enjoy cardboard,newspapers cheap PVA that sort of thing.The Metcalfe kit's are a joy to work on,they not only look better than the plastic kit's,they are nice to build.Of course some of us are better at making thing's than others,but never be affraid to have a go.Cheers Mike and Doug :)
Great rant, agree 100%. Hornby really missed an opportunity with TT in my opinion. They should've made TT a complete "Budget scale", not focusing so much on historical accuracy & more on value for money, with smaller locos & inexpensive generic wagons & coaches. I personally model O, but stick with purchasing kits or mostly second hand. I'm 39 and am seriously considering Kato N for future projects. Thanks for making your videos & helping spread the word about keeping the hobby affordable for everyone. Felix
Totally agree. I arrived back into the hobby some 6 months ago and was shocked nay stunned by the prices of everything. But let me get this right, 1 shop has closed and 1 exhibition is not going to take place and apparently the hobby is going to die! There are plenty of other outlets and shows. The hobby has been around for decades and decades with its ups and downs but it is still here. You don't need the latest greatest or shiniest. Things are changing globally on every level so the hobby has to change also.
Hattons was the largest UK model retailer with a turnover of £11m. I think its size makes it more than just a shop.
100% agree. Here in Australia, I've been debating with myself for months about getting a "cheap" Australian outline pacific. "Cheap" being $300, and the new release has driven up the price of the vintage models to the same or more.
Your post is perfect. Every point is spot-on. Spaces are shrinking, budgets are shrinking, and these manufacturers just aren't getting the message. I read a post the other day where a man was bragging how he's purchasing 20 or more of these high-end N Scale locomotives that cost close to $300 US. Why? I've been a fan of your channel since you started it and I completely agree with your way of thinking. They've been saying the hobby is dying since I started in it over 50 years ago. What's dying is the old line way of thinking. I can have just more fun and enjoyment from a 4 square foot layout as I can a room or basement size. I worked on an N Scale layout at a friend's home for nearly a decade, and when the finish line was in sight, he tore it all out because he realized the monster he had created and he'd spend more time on upkeep than running trains. Seeing all that work destroyed made me ill.Of course the magazine and trade publications are saying it's dying - for them and their old ways, it is. If they'd bother to take off the rose colored glasses and look behind the curtain they'd see there's a whole generation and a movement towards small railways in small spaces. Laser cutting, 3D printing, LED lighting are all adding new dimensions of enjoyment to the hobby. The original practitioners of the hobby were true craftsmen. It seems to be coming full circle. We fell into the snare of shake the box plastic kits and prefab buildings and the price has skyrocketed. The Hatton's situation is a sad one. Why they chose to try and buy a US firm that had been in business over a century and had its own problems is a mystery. The American firm actually had another buyer but Hatton's showed up with a bigger check at the last minute.
Thank you for providing a true and factual view of what's really going on in the hobby.
Thanks for the support. Didn't know about the US side of Hattons fascinating
I'm so confused as to why he tore up the whole layout, is that like reverse sunken cost fallacy?
Sailing is in a similar position too many round the cans or big modern yacht types when a yacht like a Shipman 28 or Contessa 32 is more than perfect for some enjoyable pottering sailing. Then there is old dinghy classes like Toppers, Wayfarers etc.
I'm a millennial model railway hobbyist (lol I'm 37) and everything you have said in this video is true. The pivot to affordable trains, smaller layouts, and 3D printing is the future and it's absolutely exciting. I have both a resin and FDM printer and even a laser cutter. A lot of Maker culture is spilling into this hobby, and its great to see the progress of 3D printing tech in the last decade and how it is immediately changing the game for folks who want to run trains.
One thing I think that is slightly understated in this video is the importance of not just any video online but GOOD video. So many layouts I've seen over the years have been covered with dated 720p handhelds, when the *magic* of the layout is better caught with more modern video editing, better full frame sensors or even just quality sound. Some of the best maker channels in other hobbies have competent video editing, and I think this hobby will need that as well if it intends to continue this pivot. Being able to see the layouts and experience that fun up close really does grab your attention between the same dozens of vox pop TikTok's with the same dreary subjects.
Thanks. I agree some of the videos are just awful lol
Mike & Douglas you chaps are spot on as to the hobby today, it's revolving.But some things never change. I had a model railway here across the pond when I was in my late teens to 20s. It was build during the 1970's, another period of high inflation. All my buildings were kits or scratch built. I was trilled that my locos had a lit head light!. You said you were mentioning the high costs of the hobby keeping many people away from it. You were probably ridiculed or doubted by the establishment. Now
some are agreeing with you. Much like in 1935 most people thought Winston Churchill was nuts for saying that Hitler was a threat to Europe. 1939, most people were convinced that Churchill was right about Hitler. Bill, old bloke from California
Hi Bill, some of the same people who ridiculed us our now making videos asking for budget ranges, as if they thought of it and it's a new idea lol. The new breed will evolve the hobby and the old guard will die our, as you say that's life, it revolves
Well said, couldn’t agree more. At 75 I’ve just got into the hobby, I spent 30 years flying and crashing re planes, 15 years building scale model boats but our local boat club in Eastbourne has just folded for the reasons you’ve stated. I’m first and foremost a builder so wanted to build a layout in workshop. I started pricing an 00 layout and rapidly decided that it will have to be secondhand. Bought a 4ft by 2ft layout very cheaply and am now expanding it. I’m in the lucky position of being able to buy all new, but cannot justify the expense, your channel epitomises my take on the railway culture and I’m addicted. Can’t go N scale because my fingers can’t cope with tiny. Keep up the good work
Agreed. It is not the model train hobby that is dying, but the monopoly of Rolls-Royce and Ferrari drivers/Macintosh addicts/place your luxury category here over the hobby.
With your channel, you had proven that you don't need to put caviar and truffle everywhere to have a good dish. People want pasta (whose cardboard boxes are fine for modelling buildings by the way !), and they don't get it in the retailers of pure caviar. You explores different ways here (second hand, Japanese N...) and that's an evolutionary branch. And an interesting one !
Another one I can see (and you also had a look at it) is the total "do everything by your own" trend : people don't have simple and cheap models by the retailers, so they build them on their own ! 3D printing is mature enough to be helpful for those people. It is something a little bit a back to the origins way. I am writing stories set in northern England in the 1950s, ans my main character is a railway modeller : she build all her rolling stock in OO by her own because no offer in ready to run, like all modelers did in the 1950s and before. We'll be back to this trend, especially when you see that some parts (gearings and motors for instance) are cheaper on the non-model train market than buying specifics for model trains. For the rest, Romford and Kadee will have no problem to stay in business selling wheels and couples (for the second, it is questionable)...
For Hattons, I won't speculate, but I can add to the mix that Ms. Hatton might certainly have decided she is old enough to run such a business, and wanted to go into retirement. Also, overseas sales are not their monopoly anytime now, I bought from other retailers in the UK that have no problems so ship to France, that is a salespoint they don't have the monopoly anymore, and a reason for their closure too.
Yes, you are right, it is the dinosaur that is the ultra luxury overgadgeted trend of model railway that is dying, not the hobby itself. Mammals like second hand, entry-level models and home made ones will thrive now.
I totally agree with you, I've got a 6ft x 3ft 6 inches OO Gauge DC layout which is not based on a set period so I can run any loco and rolling stock I want. And I only get high priced models when they are on sale, and I never get model railway magazines I use youtube alot to get my information on what new models are coming out and hints and tips on how to improve my layout.
I am rough 1970’s 1980’s mid Yorkshire that is it
I think your point about more people going back to or becoming model makers is well made. I’ve been an N scaler for over 40 years and I just can’t afford to buy anything anymore. The large number of youtube channels showing people actually making things, scratchbuilding, and maintaining / renovating older stock have been an absolute inspiration to me, so I’m looking at building almost everything else I need myself.
I've felt for a long time that the hobby's going away from the RTR idea and back to the 1940s/50s idea of using what you can to make your layout, the only difference is the tools now are 3d printers and laser cutters. And we're going back to creating the layouts that will give us enjoyment and not those that will impress others.
Yeah, I agree, although after spending years teaching 3D modelling, the last thing I want is 3D printing LOL, I prefer a craft knife and cereal card boxes :). I really like the direction things are going though, I have a few incredible models (after 40 years you do acquire one or two) but I don’t feel that they give me any more enjoyment than the 40yr old coarse Farish Merchant Navy that found 2nd hand for $50CDN that still runs well and looks the part (and it I need to replace the motor in the future, thanks to others on UA-cam, I don’t feel intimidated opening her up and having a go)
Totally agree with what you have said. I have listened to the end as well. I am 69, retired and an N scale modeller since the early 1990s. I have absolutely nothing against the rivet counters, but I personally only want a model than runs well. If I want fine detail, I would learn to do it myself. Today's models are superb esthetically, but not necessarily more reliable, and above all they are too expensive. I will go on buying Metcalfe models as they are indeed terrific and are great to build and modify. They have got it totally right. I loved Union Mills models while it lasted as they produced basic solid models which ran well and didn't cost the earth. There is a huge gap in the market there. Thanks for your excellent channel.
Thanks for the comment and support.
Scale scenes are part of this revolution as well
Yes, I very much agree, here, Mike. I would say though the concept of a budget railway is not necessary new. When I was a child with my first 00 set money was an issue - I didn't have any. So model-making, kit-bashing, and improvision tended to be the way forward. I certainly think that this will be the main approach for the future. Great work, and equally great layout in your video. 👍🏼
I built my own controller using DCC EX which is awesome; if I get stuck chat gpt helps me out. I’ll always remember the tetley mills model. It looked fantastic it felt real but most of it was scratch built. I like to recal the bloke had shaped the roofs for coaching stock over bricks in his oven. Love it.
How "strange' the times are catching up with a low cost philosophy. Mike, wonderful editorial. Small and inexpensive are the way forward.
My newest building kit is 80 years old (it's wood, paper, card and aluminum). Bought it at a train show for $1. Last month I purchased a pair of coach kits for $5 each. They are made of wood, card and cast metal and are 70 years old. Is this the 1950's or 2024? I guess we're going back in time to the build it yourself era - Old kits, LASER cut or 3D printed.
I am totally with you that it's simply far too expensive for most new models, so its great to have these new manufacturers (e.g. accurascale, kr models, revolution etc. ) challenging the traditional big boys
I'm in my early 30s and got into the hobby in the past few years and it's definitely not dying, it's just evolving into something more modern, online, simplistic and most importantly, fun!
Very well put, thanks
Excellent video. I 100% agree.
I've always been mostly into the electronics side of model railways (sound, lighting, automated routes with sensors, motorised points etc) and that is also absolutely thriving and getting cheaper and cheaper with more and more DIY options. It's also a very international scene bringing together people who model all sorts of things all over the world with a common interest in electronics. I find that refreshing compared to the frequent insularity and pedantry of much of the UK modelling scene.
Many of the people saying "it's too expensive" are rivet counting types who are simply ignorant of what's available at the budget end of the market.
I actually give Hornby some credit as they do produce budget options unlike any other major OO manufacturer. From their 2024 range:
- Exhibit A: 0-4-0 Bagnall diesel shunter for £30 new retail
- Exhibit B: Class 47 with DCC sound (I know not your cup of tea but an example that it doesn't have to cost £250+ per loco) £108 new retail
Another way to save serious money is to buy cosmetically and mechanically imperfect items secondhand and fix them up.
E.g. Even in G scale, which is huge and notoriously expensive, I bought this year:
- An 0-6-0 steam shunter for £50
- A massive B'B' diesel with directional lighting for £100
Both were Piko models of German locos, filthy, in need of service and missing the odd hand rail. But after a good clean and correct lubrication they run perfectly.
I wish Metcalfe would start doing O gauge. Buildings in that scale are crazy… I agree with everything you said. Keep delivering budget ideas and you’ll keep getting new subs 😊
I left this comment about a month ago on Sam's Trains, but I think it basically agrees with everything you've just said here: "In my opinion, it started about 25 years ago when "super detailed" models started being released by manufacturers for an, understandably, much inflated price to cover the cost of development. Fine, your wealthy retired civil servant could afford to add these marvels to his collection, while the rest of us were still happy with all our rebranded Triang stuff.
But then manufacturers enjoyed the sniff of extra money - and within a decade, all the budget models disappeared, replaced ultra-super-retooled-extra-thingy versions, priced now exclusively in that higher bracket. The hobby became about limited editions and keep the riff-raff out pricing, instead of fathers and sons playing with a train set.
Well look where we are now. Twenty years of this type of operation has led to pretty much all casual interest in the hobby disappearing. Toys'r'Us and Smiths used to stock Hornby train sets, but they disappeared from the shelves about 15 years ago due to lack of sales.
The hobby will continue to decline in popularity whilst manufacturers remain fixated with producing expensive perfect models that take years to develop, instead of also producing a line of solid, budget "good enough" trains. It's quite telling that every loco me and my son own are either original 70s/80s/90s models, or more recent reuses of those old toolings.
With one exception - I treated myself to a Bachmann O4 about 6 years ago for about £160 from Hatton's and whilst it looks pretty, as a working model it's just pretty awful - I've since seen your review of this model and agree whole heartedly about just how bad it is on a mechanism level. To lay out the equivalent of a month's food shop for a model that doesn't really even work is a kind of lunacy I'm not prepared to go through again."
Very well put, exactly the view I have. It's ridiculous to put detail above running quality, I've even seen reviews in magazine saying couplings are included should you want to run it on track. They are just collectors models
Hattons closed because they ran a bad business. They had too many staff, too many overheads and almost no profit. But they’ll never say that publicly. They’ll never admit they are the fault they closed.
Also; Hornby Magazine’s UA-cam channel also seems to get 200-300+ subscribers each month too. Start of 2023 it was 32k and now they’re almost near 34.5k. That’s because they’re the best magazine being produced in our wonderful hobby.
Like I said no large retailer will ever give the full reasons why they failed, often they simply got too many things wrong and grew too quickly
I've followed this channel since around the time I saw you guys in the coach shed at HK at the Bluebell. Your enthusiasm is, and always has been electric; in contrast to the DCC channels, ironically, with the odd exception..
A lot of those simply have a show-off mentality, which has always left me cold. Its all down to money, time and space, and youger people, in particular, either don't own or rent the sorts of houses we see older generations enjoy, which i always thought would be a contender eventuality, just not this soon. You inspire. Keep inspiring :)
Absolutely agree with the sentiments in your video. The problem doesn’t even start with existing model railway enthusiasts finding it becoming more expensive - I think the cost of starting a layout, if you only look at the ‘mainstream’ outlets, must appear frighteningly daunting.
I agree, I should think most newbies take one look and walk away.
When I came back into Hobby, I wanted to model in N for most of the reasons you pointed out above, however the prices of N gauge models in the UK market from my experiance are about the same as the OO equivalents if not more expensive! so I lended up going with OO instead.
Interesting, whilst i chose N gauge on my return to model rail, I found the cost of N to be notably cheaper than OO. So far, savings in N gauge purchases over what could’ve been OO certainly number in 3 figures…
As someone who has a collection of model railway stuff, some dating back to my childhood, i found your comments very interesting and absolutely spot on. I hope to be sble to put a simple layout together in the next year or so, but my concern is that with less than perfect eyesight and minimal manual skills, maintenance of models might be an issue. But i think i would like to have a go, encouraged by your video!
Second point a agree about Warley : lack of volunteers who want to do things. I had seen that as an amateur stage actor in a amateur troop I had to leave for several reasons, the first was I was becoming too busy with my career of novel writer. But anytime you do something relying on volunteers, nine times out of ten, you have to stop because nobody's coming, whatever the activity is.
I came back into model railways from computers, I was playing around with "Arduino" controlling motors, servos, relays, sensors, etc. and model railways seemed an ideal way to expand an Arduino hobby. I live in Thailand and it was easy to order a Kato circle of track d a loco and trucks, add PWM motor control and Bluetooth receiver to an Ardunio and control the train from a mobile phone. I used "Inkscape" to start designing Building, Platforms Etc, printing off and building my own building. So yes the hobby is changing, and it can be cheaper if you forget about rivet counting (and DCC). It could branch into the Ardunio railway modeler, the 3D printer modeler, the Inkscape modeler etc And the DCC modeler trying work out why the idea of "no sections" never quite works by adding dropper wires, block detection etc. when by adding a train to your track you create an occupied section and unoccupied section.
Arduino and model trains are great fun!
Even DCC is becoming much cheaper thanks to Arduino-based systems. I recently put together a DCC-EX Arduino-based command station for $17.
Secondhand loco decoders are around $10 and new loco decoders with sound are $50 (Hornby's HM7000 TXS series).
Well said and to the point I've introduced my great grandson to model trains a few weeks ago such a big smile on his face and years from now he can look back on that memory more people watch you tube on model trains than buying a model railway book from a news agent for example those shops in blenheim have closed up now watching your channel has more interesting info so I'm sticking with budget model railways cheers from your kiwi friend Mike
Lima was a budget model railway manufacturer and went out of business! I think the way to keep costs down is either select an area and era that most interests you and only purchase products to fit this or just have a twin track oval with minimum non specific scenery and then research and run exact formations of your favourite trains from anywhere and any era.
Did Lima go out of business or did Hornby buy them out for their tooling...?
Nice to hear some positivity... I am 40 years old, and have been in and out of the hobby for numerous years, predominantly back in it though since 2018. Literally since childhood, I have never purchased a brand new, off the shelf item - always second-hand from bargin bins / event stalls, and in more recent years, Classic Rail shop in Ticehurst and Ebay. I love a treasure trove of second-hand model railway items at exhibitions or in shops! OK some might come with some "issues", but that's all part of the hobby... freelance and enjoy your layout for you.
Classic rail is epic, without Richard we would never have been able to get started
A very interesting rant if that is what you want to call it, you make very valid points.
Here is my 2 bobs worth, I'm 70, I got my first Triang trainset in 1959, it was cheap compared to Hornby Dublo.
I went through the 60s building a triang trainset with some kit buildings etc, but of course there were more high fidelity kit locos around for the more discerning older modeller.
By 1980 I feel things were going along nicely but certain things did change, the advent of the computer and games machines etc.
Over the next 40 years there has been an exponential explosion in technology to distract people away from being hands on.
I think model railways are very hands on and also an art form, which goes from rivet counter fidelity to a pink and purple layout, in my view that is still art.
The 00 gauge modeller has been spoilt for choice with magnificent locos and rolling stock.
We had covid which for what ever reason it was seen as justification to raise prices, plus the British economy is a basket case, so to spend £250 on a loco is a load of money to say the least.
I'm into building 0 gauge brass locos, not because I'm rich but because over the years I have bought models to build and paint, and I like to build them and say I did it.
You mention metcalfe kits, well they are without a doubt fun to build and a model railway doesn't have to look 100% accurate.
I admire people who can scratchbuild, be it a loco or a building, but there is a new form of scratch building, so don't see it that way but I do, it's called 3d printing or even laser cutting, yes I could buy a printer or cutter but the real skill is in designing in autocad a model and that is definitely the future.
It is also woth noting the model railway shops have been in decline for 40 years or more so it's not just Hattons.
Also if interest is that DJH who produced locomotive kits and were the biggest producer have also in the past two months stopped producing kit.
Yes, things are changing, and not everybody is interested i n 1950s and 1950s railways or even further back to the big 4 railways of 1923 to 1947.
Mike & Douglas Thanks again for a great video and a very good and well balanced perspective. I have watched your channel for a number of years now and loved what you have done. If I look at the topic of this video and how it reflects to myself I think you are spot on.
I started with the railways bug as a child in the 90s with a couple of Hornby sets a 125 intercity set and Eurostar one. then as I grew up they lived in my dad's loft. this was until 2017 when I moved for a job and had a property where I had space so I refund my love again and bought cheap 2nd hand stuff off a well known action site. I then in 2018 joined a local club where my interest grew further. however with ever demanding work pattens vs club open times it was not viable to continue.
I had started buying new oo stuff then and building a railway at home as well as things were better financially then and there was disposable income. so I have gathered around 20/30 locos now. but never seem happy with the compromise vs size issues most people have with oo.
the two major issues I have is one being stuck in the private rental trap I don't feel I have much security when in property with the current climate and cost of living. so when planning layouts they have had to be smaller and portable but again what I want to achieve is never practical. so never am happy with what I can realistically achieve with the space. Also the current property and the last one we have had to down size due to cost of living issues.
The second issue is what `I do next because of the size and expense of the oo collection I have gathered over the last 6/7 years, I feel like I am being forced to make oo work. I think the range and selection in oo is excellent and much better compared to N because over the last 3 years or so I have thought of switching to N gauge but the lack of range of what I would like never seems to be their. I very much am a steam person and my ideal layout would be a sort of current end of line terminus station but with capacity to take big tender engine with run around and a goods shed as would have been at the end of steam era type of station. the trouble I have in 00 is I need about 8 foot at lest to do the station side alone probably around 12foot which I just don't have.
So again I am at a really cross roads but I feel a lot of what you have raised in this video is 100% spot on. and true I feel for me if the range of N Gauge would improve more and have more available it would help to make my mind up. What I don't get in particular is when you look at the old style graham farish stuff they have made many of the models before the DCC era so why they can't look at doing more with them to gain a better market of supply I don't know.
Sorry for the ramble but I thought I would share my thoughts with you. thanks for everything you guys do and for all the great content.
The kato pocket line range is excellent but wouldn't fit a UK terminus set up sadly. They are small, cheap and reliable
You are spot on, the hobby is not dying or even changing, it is reverting back to a bit of buy some cheap loco as a present and then kit build or scratch build, PS I am soon to be 76, and as a youngster I had a train set, which I soon modified but found my main interest was Trams. No tram kits in the 50's or 60's but I could buy motors and wheels and axels at Bec models Tooting, and plans and scratch build, much more fun, and affordable. I watch 'OO Bill', and you, very instructive.
I'm changing from 00 to n gauge and you hàve given me so many ideas
Time. Cost. Space.
EXACTLY.
The hobby is changing and it needs to. Cost is the most important factor that stopped me modelling, all my stuff is in boxes. I'll bring it to UK with me, maybe do something there. If you think it's expensive there, you should see what we pay in Australia. Dear God, I've bought used cars for less than the price of a new loco.
Your channel has shown what can be done in limited space and budget. You've been pioneers in keeping the hobby real and affordable but always with a view to making the hobby fun, and not a chore.
As is often the case, major manufacturers seem to misjudged how a hobby evolves and changes, they don't seem to understand where the core element now is, and what they are looking for. That many manufacturers sell their products for higher prices than ever, and manufacturing was shipped off shore to China so production costs should be lower than ever, yet companies seem to be struggling? It tells me they are looking in the wrong direction.
Great video, very good points.
Priced a DCC controller the other day $700+. Instead I bought a $7.75 DC motor driver, only up to 16v 1.6amp, dual output. Have to write my own software to drive it but I have experience with electronics/software. DIY Model trains has always been my reason I got into the hobby. Got 12 pairs of Atlas N wheels for $14, printed 5 wagons in 3 hours for 62gm of resin. Heaps of 3D printing issues but that's part of the fun figuring it out, plus once I figure out Makehuman and Blender I can make my own figures in any pose and any accessories I can make or download a 3D STL model of. Nice Kato BoBo, unit wonder what the wheel spacing are? Remember when everyone's starter set had a 0-6-0 Switcher? 0-6-0 mechs are great to hack for other locos. Going to check out those Metcalf buildings, cheap buildings on my radar now, thanks.
Look up DCC EX++ , open source DCC, it's accessible to even non electronic engineers, also Modaled Lib another electronics control project with all the heavy lifting done.
The points complication is so true, newbies are told you HAVE to rewire points, get point motors with switches built in and ensure it's setup to "run well". Was really off putting and delayed any start to building a layout, would need to learn electronics and soldering first to just run a train 😂
Was refreshing to seeing how well your locos run on your layout with just the points and nothing else altered!
I totally agree with you, I have only been modelling for about 8 or 9 years, and things are getting very expensive, so I have started to build my own model buildings, yes I brought rolling stock and paid a lot of money for them, lower prices than they are now I should add, but I am enjoying the model making now and building the layout my own way, I am in my mid 80's so you are never too old to start.
That's great, good for you, and thanks for watching
This is the best commentary I’ve heard on this issue. I got into the hobby last year after watching the Pete Waterman tv shows on Channel 4. I then picked up a magazine and saw the Metcalfe brewery and I thought ‘That’s what I want to build.’ And now I have an N gauge layout. It’s the modelling I’m enjoying, the rest of it is sometimes interesting, often challenging and frequently over my head. But so far I’ve built track, kit wagons with decals, and loads of Metcalfe! What I would say is that I joined the n gauge society and have found them nothing but friendly and helpful. I went to the final Warley and chatted to so,done on their stand and he said ‘Build whatever you like. There are no rules.’ So I think, even among the ‘traditional’ wing there are many who aren’t dogmatic about the right way.
At the most recent South Dublin Model Railway show one of the layouts had the Metcalfe brewery kit in oo
Bravo I totally agree. Very well said and have always tried to follow your ethos. Keep it up. 👍
Hi Mike, I agree with you completely.
I like a comment on another channel (Thundermesa), he focuses on “believability over realism”.
I model Australian Railways and our interstate freight trains are over a kilometre long, that’s over 11 metres in HO scale not easy to realistically replicate on most home model railways.
Covid brought me into the model railway hobby, buying things at on line shops or EBay. I had yearned for a model railway for a long time.
UA-cam & Facebook and channels such as yours have inspired to me keep modelling.
Cheers Peter from downunder.
3D printing is a revolution, can print a model and follow along with UA-cam painting tutorials, its almost like paint by numbers. Back in day , save a long time for Faller model, fail painting , give up. Static grass is another innovation, tip, air ionizer module, so much more satisfying than coloured sawdust. Electronics, really expect to see manufacturers catch up with open source community, Modaled Lib, DCC throttles on phones, train cams, easy automation. Thanks Budget Model Railways for getting me back into it, the throw plans in bucket and lay some track out , really is way to start.
Totally agree. The hobby isnt dying, its the ' rivet counting and buy 200 ponds plus model s ' lot thats dying out , ive started to build a very small Inglenook style layout as live in a modern flat so like alot of people now not much room , so even a ' 6 by 4 ' layout like these people say you must have i cant fit , also i havnt bought one of the railway models magazines for years now as its all about those high end locos and about ' High end jct ' in june 1956 on a monday afternoon ,and like you say i find all my inspiration on line and u tube and thanks to you too as your channel has given me so many ideas and help , and think the budget railway hobby will grow and all the Big model companies will change or sadly their go out of business as its a changing marketplace now.
I couldnt agree more with this,I am getting back into model railways after 30 years and seeing how pricey is, it limits my choices as to what I want to do. I love watching your channel for the past year or so and gone back and watched all your old videos too, the best channel out there for our hobby!!!
Thanks for the support
Caught this as I was repairing a second hand model. I started in the hobby in the seventies but fell away as prices increased and the rivit counters took over am returning as a result of social media (I'm just over 60) Very please to hear your comments and agree with them all. I do remember when Railway modeller catered for young people (when I was in that demographic). Keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching. I'm 60 next week lol. But it goes to show it's an attitude issue with the rivet counters not an age issue
Love your channel was really especially helpful to me as a beginner picking up lots of tips. Bought two of your BMR DC controller boxes. I’ve been building my first ever layout - it’s ON30 Narrowgauge; 2 m x 1 m layout which can be winched up to the ceiling when not being used for a period of time. As many of your supporters will know, On30 is regarded as the “black sheep” community part of the model railway fraternity 😂. Yes I do have some expensive DCC geared locomotives like the Bachmann Shay, Climax and Heisler but many of my others have been acquired very cheaply; and converted using some laser cut wood parts. Being narrow gauge you can get away with quite small layout size to suit the majority of modern houses - but with really good sized locomotives without having to drop down to N Gauge sizes; unless space is extremely limited. And many of the critter type (i.e. anything goes) locomotives, 0-4-0; 0-4-2 locos will cope with very tight radius curves.
Sounds fabulous, I'm tinkering quietly with budget O, so very similar
I could not agree more. I love 3D printing items for my layout and for my friends at my club.
There are more small suppliers working from home supplying us on eBay etc.
It’s change, get over it and get on with it. Enjoy your model railway.
What a sound and balanced viewpoint, well voiced Mike and Doug! On the strength of this video, I have subscribed to your channel. Thank you for posting this gentlemen 👍🏻😊
Thanks for the comment, sub and support
Couldn't agree more with all of this. It's true for a few hobbies now, that Boring Bob and the Rivet Counters are helping kill.
Mike.
Bang on. I've always been budget. Mum sold her Triang TT in c.1970/1 to buy me Hornby OO when I was three/four years old. I still have it all (admittedly packed away in the loft at the moment)- AND her plywood almost 6' x 4' board with sun shadows of where her TT layout was pinned to it from 1950s/1960s in the garage!).
I love looking at Bob the rivet counter's results at shows and in magazines and admiring it, but have never had the disposable income (or skill for that matter 🙂) to throw at it.
I like the idea of fantastic/ imagined locations - such as Bramble Bottom and the late Derek Reeve's mouse-populated layouts - we need more of this. Not sure *I* would go as far as pink and purple (LOL), but the spirit of it is right. We should champion these "mavericks" (Have a look at Bob Downes' Tippy Ashcroft).
I grew up borrowing P D Hancock's narrow gauge model rail book from the public library as often as I could.
George Williamson and his North Wales narrow gauge is a little rivet counter-ish - but he works at speed, shows and admits his mistakes on his UA-cam channel and is very much "new guard" in that: shows how.
And you're right: we have many more calls on our time these days. I have sooo many started projects.
Thank you for what you do and keep banging the drum for budget.
Chris/.
Thanks for a wonderful comment
The very nature of BMR is why you are going from strength to strength. People in these difficult times are looking for a bang for their bucks as well as the satisfaction of building layouts and modelling. there in. I gave up buying the " Model Rail" magazine because of its price and the large number of advertisements that it contained. All that you have said are points well made Mike keep up the fight for us little people.
Thanks for the support
Nice video and i completely agree. Ive been following you guys for a few years on Instagram now as ive always agreed with your take on things. I have been buying everything second hand for about 7 years now. Im happy with the level of detail of models from 20 years ago and i enjoy weathering and adding the details to improve them. As a beginner i feel it has improved my modelling skills too. The glass is definitely more full when i buy a new loco for £60 as opposed to £220.
Similar situation in wargaming. Certain companies price gouging relative to inflation for a number of years has priced out more and more of their target clientele, people becoming disenchanted with the creative direction certain companies take, people noticing the dumbing down of certain companies offerings and now there is a multitude of hobbyists going their own way with 3d printing and homebrew rules
I couldn't agree more Mike. All I want to do is build a layout that is a fairly realistic approximation of the real thing and that is what I've done, it's not perfect but perfect isn't what I want.
Couldn't agree more. I haven't bought a new locomotive or item of rolling stock for 6 years (and even that came from Hattons' bargain bin for £45). Budget is my biggest motivator and it was incredibly daunting when getting back into the hobby to be told that I'd need X, Y, and Z item (and the ability to pay for said items) just to get started. Watching channels like yours and joining the Micro Layouts group on Facebook showed me that, actually I already had everything I needed to build something I could enjoy. You're right that we are seeing a return to model making, scratch building etc and it's only going to be a good, healthy thing for our hobby. I never saw the point of Skaledale etc because all it ever does is reinforce the belief that I could never make anything of that standard. At the end of the day, it's evolution and as long as there are people practicing and enjoying model railways then the hobby can't die. Bit of a rambling answer but hopefully you get the gist - accessibility is key to everything.
I agree fully with you, modelling, not buying models as you say
I agree with you with respect to the hobby is not dying. I would respectfully add that there is no wrong way to enjoy the hobby, and I for one welcome the rivet counters, if only because they end up passing on excellent models at knock down pre-owned prices, if not on Hattons, then on Ellis Clarke Trains. That said (tongue firmly in cheek), I would also add that I am in the camp of greatly enjoying OO in large part because of the huge second hand market, and I am very lucky to have a lot of space (40 x 8 ft). I may one day transition to TT if money and my time on earth allows me to complete and get bored with the current project. I doubt I will go 'N' gauge because the things that I strive for and give me joy are the sensation of a train ever so slowly and smoothly pulling away from a standstill, and the sound of the engine in those moments.
Well said Mike. I totally agree with everything there. I've just purchased a couple of this Kato freelance pocket line freight sets for the 'Cruel Sea' layout that I'm building on my channel at the moment. Those little locos are probably the best runners in my collection and I picked both sets up for under £40 each. It's inspirational videos like yours that will keep this hobby alive and well and also most importantly accessible to all. Well done mate. See you at Sompting in May. Jason
Thanks, the Kato pocket line show what could be done in oo
Look forward to seeing you in may are you exhibiting
@@BudgetModelRailways Yes mate, I don’t know what I’m bringing yet. Mathew will let me know how much room he’s got!
When all us baby boomers pass away, the hobby is finished. Lots of second hand stuff will be flooding the market. Way, way to expensive now, we are being ripped off. Over a £1oo for a sound decoder, which is made of components that come to £2.50.
You can already see it on online selling sites, lots of train stuff is from estate sales
Agree with everything g you have said and pointed out. In New Zealand everything g is expensive, but….there are cheap items to be had if your building from scratch or from a kitset. I have the Kato basic starter set (bought in Japan new for NZ$80!), Got the Kato budget steam engine with carriages and ran that for a coupe years. Now I have a resin printer and things have really gotten fun…I now have a 3D printed 009 Ruston with 3D printed slate wagons in an Inglenook layout running on a Kato uni track. It’s about as freelance as you can get but I love it. The model railway scene is changing…for the better, it had to happen I think. Love the channel and look forward to more vids to inspire me!
Fantastic video. I 100 % with everything you said in this video. Evening is way too expensive and there is no need for some of these models to be over £250 for a simple DCC ready locomotive
Even making them DCC ready adds £50+ for what is about £3 of electronics.
True for most manufacturers. In fairness to Hornby they have a Class 47 equipped with DCC sound and Bluetooth for £108 in their 2024 range. I reckon that's good value.
@@eurovnik take the DCC and Bluetooth out and it could have been £70, it's unnecessary complexity in what should be a budget range
@@BudgetModelRailways There are plenty of non-DCC options too. E.g. Class 40 for £76, Class 59 for £77. What makes that 47 with DCC sound so special is that it's £20 cheaper than buying a DCC-ready loco and adding the decoder yourself.
I agree with some of your comments but not all. Some of the most fantastic, high quality, fully detailed and yes complete with rivets, models I’ve seen are those built by model makers either from kits or scratch built or modified from cheap ready to run. Same with scenery, it doesn’t have to be expensive, people use natural materials and dirt from the back yard. I think there’s quite a difference between model makers and collectors. I’m a relatively new modeller and learning as I go but from the start I’ve wanted to do things with high standards, I’m not content to chuck it together, I want it to look realistic and for me that’s more about art in many ways, about choice of colour and composition. It can be just a diorama or a small or large layout that doesn’t matter. I’m not saying you can’t just put some track down and run some trains and have fun, I like to do that too but my layout build is taking time because if I’m not happy with something I’ll do it again. The model shows I go to are all extremely busy and well attended and I keep meeting more people who enjoy model railways. Warley was too expensive in my opinion for what it was and a lot of that is because the NEC is a rip off. Totally agree with you about the volunteer side though, it’s hard to get volunteers although not impossible.
I m new to the hobby, building a HO layout in my apartment at the moment. I bought Piko trains and tracks. I'm 38.
All the locos I've bought have been older hornby and lima ones that are spares/repairs off ebay. There's rarely a huge amount wrong with them and there's some great repairs channels on youtube like OO Bill. They're easily detailed and weathered for a fraction of what a brand new loco would cost.
I do the same with Lima :) They really are fantastic locos and like you i have learnt how to service them from OO Bill.
99.9% agree, you could also add the pandemic as one of the reasons active volunteers are in short supply. several groups I know of never really recovered after it. Keep up the good work.
Well said! I have recently turned 60 and am looking forward to building my dream layout. I started as a young boy and all I had was some pocket money and the odd birthday present. Built things from balsa wood and cocktail sticks and had great fun and learnt a lot. I am fortunate to be able to afford the occasional special model, but I buy lots second hand because I recognise models are overpriced. I have ditched magazine subs and follow lots of brilliant modellers online. Finally as someone who has worked in education all their life, I appreciate the future belongs to the young. Listen to them!! The hobby is alive and well and has learnt survival means adapting and evolving!! Ps I model N gauge and have just subscribed to your channel.
Thanks for the comment and subscribing
Well said that man.
100% facts on all of it. Got 31 locos in my collection right now. 2 are 3D printed OO9 locos, 19 are pre-owned, and most of the remaining 10 were in the 100 pound range. 99.9% of my rolling stock is pre-owned, a kit, or was just low cost anyway. All my buildings are Metcalfe. Going for the stuff that's cheap but works is the only way I've been able to grow my collection as fast as I have.
I think the most obvious problem w/ off the shelf "budget" OO is the pricing of ancient toolings that just keep getting re-released and manufacturers thinking that's good enough. A Hornby 14xx for 75 RRP is absurd considering that tooling is originally from 1980. Those things are old enough to be a dad whose kid is graduating from college this year.
Fully agree. The 0-4-0 at £50+ and the ancient 4 wheel coach at £25+ are just a rip off
Quite agree (although I am highly guilty of the pile of lead /kit stash). While the super-detailed models are nice, for most people they are just not within budget. There is nothing wrong with a more affordable model, that if you wish, as time & skill allow, you can convert & detail to represent the loco you desire. It will also be something you can take more pride in because you have done it, not just spent the money!
I have noticed on some channels a tendency to do detailed scenic effects (Literally worrying about blades of grass) but would not touch their locos or rolling stock. Another problem with the high prices, do you take the risk to modify even the smallest thing. Because if you muck it up you may ruin something it has taken you months to save for. That may also result in a non-runner if the warranty is held to be invalidated.
I largely agree with your view and have a number of comments but perhaps want to start by picking up with your reference to the magazines. I can remember buying Railway Modeller back in the 60s and one of the inspirational layouts was the original Berrow branch. It was an L shape terminus to fiddle yard in, I guess, something like 8 foot by 6 foot. It was far superior to my oval Hornby Dublo 3 rail train set but it was inspirational because it felt as though I could achieve something similar with a little effort.
I now get my magazines on line and have just looked back at the last 6 issues of the RM. Its Railway of the Month for the last 6 months have all been layouts with a minimum length of 6 metres. The minimum widyh has been half a metre. They all seem to be of high fidelity museum quality but I fail to see how they could inspire todays 10 or 11 year old to think "yes, I can achieve that". I accept that buried in the magazine there will be smaller, more basic layouts but they are almost an afterthought. If RM and BRM etc want to remain relevant they should start to feature models like the one you are running in the background of your video as Railway of the Month and show how anyone can get something working as a first layout in a relatively short timescale.
Thanks, I agree the mainstream media is more off putting than inspirational
I wanted a Siphon G on my small layout. Not wanting trouble with wheelers etc. I bought the Accurascale one. I didn’t like the price but it was all I could get new. When it arrived I realised how much I had paid for detail that I couldn’t see. So when I wanted some Mk 1 coaches I went to EBay and got three for the price of one new one
i'd love to do a full run in 00 but i've got no space, so i've decided i'm going to do a small 009 layout and not modelled on anything,in fact i'm thinking of doing a steampunk/post apocalyptic look to the whole thing.
Sounds epic
That sounds great- I trust you'll be giving Hornby's Bassett-Lowke "Steampunk" range a wide berth... given that it was just 1980s toolings with a few gears stuck on the side!
@@Eric_Hunt194 it was a great idea and the guy who came up with it meant well, but poorly executed and priced. I believe the same happened when they tried a girls range at some point. All people want to bring them in the hobby are cheap reliable locomotives
i will probably skin over the loco's so i don't ruin them unless i can find some cheap.@@BudgetModelRailways
And a lot of Steampunk like to take original items and convert them themselves. They are very creative !
Ian
Bang on the money. Can't wait to see what comes out of model railways' new 'punk rock' era!
Agree. The current crop of MBAs just are not equipped to run a model making business (or a pub it would seem). I started out in the 1960s with Airfix kits, pocket money prices and sold by my local news agent. They had a magazine (the original not the re-hash) full of 'how to' articles and we all enjoyed having a go. On the railway side things were more expensive but the idea of making things (rather than buying them) was by then firmly entrenched. The big layouts in the magazines were inspiring but I was never going to build a Buckingham or a Madder Valley. The rolling stock had 'working features' (mostly opening doors as I remember it) as did some of the scenic items (working, well hand wound, conveyor belts, cranes that worked etc.). The problem then was poor running locomotives, having saved up for ages to by an 0-4-0 Polly loco I discovered it didn't run very well and then the engine stopped working. I still had the two second hand locomotives my Dad bought for me (I still have one of them) but interest waned, I wanted a model railway not an ornament and my friend's (dad's) clockwork set was just so much more fun. So, yes, a budget range would possibly be of interest and N Gauge is better suited to British houses than OO/HO (but those Peco kits have gone up a bit in the last decade, it started with the 16 ton mineral wagons).
Two years ago the Wagon kits were £6.50 now they are £8.50, it's only a few quid, but it's still a 33% increase or about four times inflation.
I do agree even though I'm 76 and been involved with model railways for 70 years.New locos have been just too expensive for me even when I was earning.Ive gone down the .H0/009 route most of the stuff is second hand or purchased from Norman Hatton 50years ago.
Absolutely agree! I love the idea of making my own little world and having all of the trains running being something that came out of my brain. I unfortunately am in the US, and the locos i have were mostly new and quite expensive (most were gifts but still), and OO stuff is not as available here. I am highly considering selling some of the stuff I have that didn't get demolished from being shipped by amazon (bleh) to get some locos that are simple and easy to paint and modify. Its a little bit of a shame since a lot of the real life engines I really enjoy (like the thompson l1) just arent available in budget friendly ranges, but i think making an engine my own outweighs that by a LOT.
Gotta put my hand up and say I was originally a model buyer as you've described...however with huge spikes in loco prices (railroad costing more than I'd pay for premium!!) your guys' channel has massively inspired me, thanks to your tutorials I'm scratch building my own station buildings and platforms and looking at older coaching stock and ways to upgrade on the cheap.
Thanks very much fellas. 😊
I totally agree with your comments. I also manufacture products using 3D printing and laser cutting for model railways in South Africa. When I started I made the conscious decision not to do super highly detailed models, I wanted to manufacture products that looked good but at a reasonable price.
Totally agree with everything. I fell for all the Hornby TT:120 advertisements and 15% off membership etc etc to find eventually the prices of HORNBY TT to go through the roof so I made the decision to stop modelling it and sell it on before the prices just took over. I’m back to basics now modelling 00 second hand DC and I couldn’t be happier. I don’t understand why Hornby can’t release railroad models at £60 for example class 37/40/55 etc railroad flying Scotsman the list goes on, if they sold these at £60 for the old tooling models with modern motors they would sell 1000’s instead of these high end DCC sound £237 for a 08 releases. It’s got to change.
Great video guys as always.
I was the same with TT, but stopped before committing once I saw what was happening to prices. I fully agree with what you say, but I doubt it will happen
Same in Australia, cant get enough of the kits to build, and cottage industries are booming, particularly the 3d printers. Sales of over detailed 150 function sound locos are sitting on the shelf.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head.
I came back to the hobby with the start of TT120. Because of the limited range (it's growing), I started down the modelling route. I have made over 100 wagon kits and a similar number of building kits. It's a hobby in its own right. I buy everything online. My local model shop is a chore to get to and as you say, run by OO snobs. I was literally jeered and told to leave when I admitted to modelling in 1/120th scale.
Agree totally Mike. What I would like to see is a budget range of UK outline in HO. Something like the old Tyco. I run mostly Hornby but I also run Lima HO and Tyco HO and it would be nice to get rid of the OO/HO thing. I live in Australia and own only one Australian outline train and it is an old Lima and that is because of price.
Well thats the first time I have heard someone who is actually prepared to stick his head over the Railway Wall and say it how it is, agree with your views completely and so will the majority of Modellers who simply love our Hobby and indeed love your Channel as you have so varied types of Videos to interest everybody, also what always aggrieves me is these channels on UA-cam who show off and always must have the latest Models and accessories but don't buy one Loco they buy 2/3 at a time along with not not just 3/4 Wagons but 20 plus at a time, you know who these people are as they regularly post Videos showing off in the most unsavoury way, and by doing this they contribute to keeping these prices artificially high giving no chance to young modellers trying to make there way in the hobby, they look at this and just say that they cannot compete with this situation, Great Channel, and you have got a great young Man in the wings to keep the interest going, regards, Colin.
Thanks for the support and comments
I agree about the show offs. Some chap on insta saying he couldn't resist a Wagon at the cheap price of £40 so bought ten! It just casts a false narrative, and I bet he wasn't married, I know what my wife would have said lol
Interesting take on the hobby. I definitely agree that it will charge, and that it's thriving in its own way. I'm lucky that the cost of premium locos, carriages and wagons in N doesn't put me off. But there needs to be accessible options too. It looks like another show organiser has stepped in to fill Warley's space in the calendar. There are plenty of other retailers who are probably delighted to have Hatton's former customers. Ideally, the new generation will find a way to maintain the sense of community. Even if that's not through a physical club that meets on Tuesday evenings and Sunday afternoons.
Couldn't agree with you more. Main stream models are out of the range of most pockets and really do only appeal to the rivet counters.
I just want a model that is reliable and doesn't require I take a 2nd mortgage out!
great video. you are right. i wont spend £330 on a new loco. i will spend £33 on a pre owned one.
Sadly 2nd hand costs are now getting as crazy as the new prices, but yes still a lot cheaper than the new ones
Hi Mike,
I totally agree with you. Thank you both for driving "Budget model railways" forward. I enjoy making kits and saving money. Kato is a perfect brand - great value, well designed and it works. I work in N (Kato USA outline), GN15 and, surprise surprise in 1/35th scale, building Smallbrook Model kits in this scale (and GN 15) using the cheap but reliable Hornby 0-4-0 chassis (Chinese made because they are better runners). Smallbrook kits are basic, but part of the fun is adding more detail. 3D printed figures are also a great source that's blooming.
3d printing figures will be a game changer
I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for the last 15 years. I said for a long time now whenever you go to model train show full of all guys and I am over 50, so when I think someone’s old you know they’re not exactly young all the exhibition layout mostly run by old people, I have never been part of the rivet counting ultra elite part of the hobby pretty much every locomotive exception of I think three and I have about 200 odd locomotives. I’m pretty much all the role in stock all came secondhand over maybe 15 years of collecting and I think it’s more fun when you decide you want to buy a particular locomotive to search around your local hobby shops search around your local area eBay other online auction sites are available to find the golden nuggets to find the bargain is more fun. I enjoy that as much as running the trains but your points in this video, I 150% agree with
Thanks
Hi, I am autistic, and I really agree. I have always wanted a model railway but never had the space until now. I was given some things when I was younger, but all incomplete, but now are. I decided to sign up to eBay in 2021, and found lots of bargains, and still do occasionally. Every locomotive that I have is either Tri-ang, early Hornby, or Lima. I was given the dummy car for the Tri-ang class 101 DMU, I never thought I would have it complete, then on eBay, I found the power car, and the center coach. I got my favourite, early Hornby class 9F Evening Star. I now have nearly 30 locomotives, and I wouldn't trade them in for any of the new rubbish. I have seen some of them, you can't give them to children, they are so fragile, and easy to break. I watch a UA-cam channel where videos a done about maintenance on them, the new stuff is too complicated to do any work on them.
Hi you are spot on about the maintenance on new locos that's why i too prefer the older models :)
Having watched your channel from the start I totally agree that Boring Bob is ruining it for everybody. They said it was the "grey pound" that was driving the prices but being one of these I can tell you that I will not pay over £100 for a loco and thats were the main suppliers are falling down, they do not cater for anybody else. Keep up the great work you two. Frank
Totally spot on Been watching your posts for years You know what the scariest word in the dictionary is it's "CHANGE" and if they don't they are finished Take care and keep the posts coming
Thanks for the support
Sweden here: Agree 100%. I also believe that the Communities on social media need to connect, perhaps country-wise. I have no contacts over here at all, except for Boring Bobs....
Great to hear from Sweden, sad to here it's the same there
This is exactly what I have been saying.
The inexpensive options (ie Lima) I had as a teenager in the 1980s disappeared only to be replaced with high detail and very high cost limited edition run models.
Love building Metcalfe too, fantastic kits.
I'm part of the millennials who love the hobby, I'm only recently 32 years old, the only steam locomotives I've seen are in museums or preservation lines... Only once in another country have I seen steam working on a proper railway, so fair to say in terms of modelling them I just like to model what I fancy, in terms of the hobby changing yes it is undoubtedly in all the ways you've mentioned, I feel like there is another way it's changing, I've seen companies like Rapido and Dapol more willing to do fun/requested models and that's actually keeping interest alive, for example I had no interest in the Rapido SECR O1 0-6-0 locos however when they showed it in the "What If" rejected livery of "Bramble" I fell in love with it and so did a huge number of people on social media, so Rapido listened, bit the bullet and are now actually making it because pre-orders have been made for them in enough quantities to justify manufacturing them.
It just goes to show that if big manufacturers *cough Hornby cough* actually listen to the current new wave of modellers there will be a solid revival of the hobby.
As for me I just see something I like and enjoy it, I'm not here for historical accuracy, I'd much rather be happy watching my various trains from various regions and abroad zipping about a layout of my liking 🤗
Bang on. Have been inspired by your channel. Keep up the great work.
I like fine models, but for building a layout I prefer to do my own card buildings because I’m not limited to what kits are out. As for the rolling stock, despite being young my skills with technology are not good, but I find useful the old skill of using styrene sheets which I think could be a link between the old generation with the new for all the experience they have with it
Pretty much agree with all that you are saying about the shift in direction the hobby is taking from museum quality rtr to "budget modeling". I am curious on your views about DCC and DCC + sound. Those are nice and do get a lot of attention, but they also drive up costs of locomotives and controllers ... so when you are spending that much on a locomotive with DCC/Sound, it starts to make sense to also have a good, accurate model.
I have been exploring the "budget" version of sound ... placing speakers under the layout with cheap sound cards from China to provide sounds (rail gate crossing bells, machine shop, station announcements, etc. I have also seen (but not tried) several groups who are building their own DCC controllers using things like Arduino micro-processors and such ... I think that there is a lot of potential in those areas ... with direct crossover to future occupations (i.e., robotics, A/I, etc.).
The problem with DCC and sound etc is it adds huge costs, and now you can't get a basic loco without them, so there is no alternative. The Piko loco is cheaper because there is no DCC or sound. If I ever do sound it will be a seperate speaker under the layout using as you say cheap electronics from China
I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the ready to plonk buildings and the high end locos and wagons, but even i've questioned the value of bachmann or hornby rolling stock at the prices they charge for what is essentially old tooling. If accurascale can charge £160 for a dcc ready loco with all the features and highly detailed or £60 for a brand new tooled mk2 coach with lighting then £50 for a coach from the main players thats older or a base loco for £100 - £150 doesn't seem value for money. Even i still keep an eye out for decent quality second stock as i'm modelling more unusual traffic, but even that seems difficult to find at sensible prices these days. Keep up the amazing work and telling the right story!
As you say even those that can afford are beginning to question the prices. I've actually nothing against the high end stuff but it needs to be balanced by a comprehensive budget range, which we don't have
@@BudgetModelRailways have to agree. Perhaps theres a market there for an existing company to simplify some of the cad designs they've produced for sale to the home printing market, or purchasing older tooling to make true budget ranges. Clearly the market is there.
Yah where I'm from the model railway industry is thriving, there's a model railway store at a local mall and parents buy cheap N gauge starter sets for young kids all the time. British manufacturers seriously need to take a case study on Kato and Tomix, they produce nearly every modern image Japanese EMU at very affordable prices. The British market can stick with OO being the mainstream, don't think space is nearly as limited in the UK, they just need some budget models that are not ancient Lima toolings. The Piko Hobby range is a good example for manufacturers to follow. Frankly I'm surprised Hornby still hasn't done anything like that. Railroad Plus is a nice step but not enough to save the hobby. What's mind-boggling is Hornby made an Amtrak Avelia Liberty starter set using the Lima AGV tooling, why not do something similar for the UK? They literally have measurements of the IETs and FLIRTs on their hands, a cheaper design-clever version without all the bells and whistles will perform well with beginners and modellers who don't want to folk out silly money.
I agree 100%, Japan is showing the way. Doug has switched to N because the Kato Ice 4 was so much cheaper than the UK equivalent, and a better runner. The new Kato Wagons are about 30% cheaper than the UK ones