Thanks for the nod, Brian. :-) And for giving props to Jack and RG, too. Nice video, as per usual. What I think many younger players don't often consider is that a great many pedals were designed for an era whan a "pedalboard" might have consisted of maybe 3 or 4 pedals, battery-powered, and just sitting loosely on the floor. An example might be Hendrix's prototypic wah-Uni-vibe-Fuzz-Face configuration. In many instances - and I'll bring up Jimi here again - the pedals were used in conjunction with lousy higher-capacitance cable that ate up so much top end that whatever buffers *might* have subtracted paled in comparison to what the cable did. (I say "might" because none of those pedals were buffered). But we are in a different era, now. Players are assembling pedalboards that often resemble music-store showrooms, and better-quality cables are both widely available, and widely used. Long story short, we are able to finally *hear* nice crisp top end, but we're also throwing a LOT of obstacles in the way of it with our pedalboards. When it comes to buffers and true-bypass, I'm a firm believer that you don't get something for nothing. As Jack demonstrated, buffers can have a *cumulative* effect. That is, one at a time, they are absolutely innocuous and well-designed. Six at a time is a different story. Not only in terms of bandwidth loss, but cumulative hiss as well. Yes, they are quiet, but less so than straight wire, and after 6 or 8 in a row, barely measurable hiss can start to add up to audible hiss. I will stick my big BUT in here (shout out to Pee-Wee's Big Adventure), regarding what I like to call "pedal ventriloquism". This is a phenomenon that happens when a true-bypass pedal is inserted immediately before a buffered pedal, such as a Boss unit. Perhaps they've rectified it by now, but the majority of small-form Boss pedals have an "unterminated" input cap on the input buffer. They do this to reduce any loading. Unterminated input caps are prone to audible popping. You will hear a possible thump when you first plug in. But since the bypass switching is done electronically and *internally* , there is no switch-popping thereafter. When you stick a TB pedal *in front of* such an e-switched pedal, though, every time you hit its stompswitch, you momentarily disconnect then reconnect that pedal to the the buffered pedal after it. If there is any charge stored in that second pedal's input cap, it will produce an annoying and audible pop. It *sounds* like it is coming from the TB pedal because that's the stompswitch that appears to produce it, but it is coming from the Boss-type buffered pedal that has the unterminated input cap. Hence my term of "pedal ventriloquism" - one pedal throwing its voice to another. Classic Boss-type e-switched pedals WERE well-designed, and nicely quiet. But they were not designed in anticipation of being mingled with TB pedals. Is this a soluble problem? Thankfully, yes. All it involves is soldering a suitable resistor of, say, 1M to 2M7, from the hot lead to ground on the input jack of the e-switched pedal. This will provide an always-available path for that input cap to bleed off stored charge, without loading down the pedal and eating away at bandwidth.
very well explained, and 100% accurate!! It's maddening as a manufacturer. And Mark, I'll always be appreciative of all of the knowledge you and others have passed on to us. There's way too many to list but diystompboxes.com and ampage were the places that I and many popular builders learned. I hope you know that you helped to forge an entire industry and affected many lives just by being helpful!
You're too kind, and give me too much credit. Like both RG and Jack, I wallowed in whatever Craig Anderton, Robert Penfold, and John Simonton provided for 20 years, starting in the mid-70's. When the web and forums finally came along, the unfettered access we all now had to other's knowledge, and schematics, shifted everything into overdrive. All I did was watch, soak it all up, and dream up stuff when my mind wandered at work. I guess it paid off.
Long live Ampage! I was Jason B. on there back in the early days. Great to see so many from back then are still active in the amp/pedal world! When it comes to amps, you have to give Bruce Collins of Mission Amps some kudos as well!
Steve "T-Boy" Morrison, who maintains AMPAGE (now Music Electronics Forum), and Aron Nelson, who maintains the DIYStompbox forum, are both assured their place in heaven. Both have faithfully maintained their respective sites for several decades. In an age when so much on the internet comes and goes like dandelions, it is reassuring to be able to visit both of those sites, find familiar names, and call up discussions from long ago.
Orman, Hammer and Keen are my heroes too. And Fred Briggs, Anderton and of course Wampler. This has been one of my (too many) hobbies since building a fuzz in 1968, followed by a bucket brigade phaser. Still messing around with circuits, although it's pretty hard to come up with anything really original now that digital has taken over. Long live analog!! and keep the vids coming!
you should do the same style of video with true bypass pedals to demonstrate that there is also degradation in the signal due to the multiple connections from pedal to pedal
Yes but if you'll use just one or two pedals, like I am doing it, you don't almost hear any loss of signal with true bypass pedals. The opposite, with buffered pedals, I can hear the signal loss with only one pedal already. So...
I feel like there should be a little disclaimer when talking about the scary looking 4 buffered pedal graph. The -3dB cutoff for the low cut appears to be around 24 Hz or so, which is at the very limit of human hearing. In fact, the guitar in standard tuning only produces frequencies as low as 88 Hz, which is shown on this plot as only has about a half decibel drop relative to the majority of the frequency response, so that low cut isn't going to be as perceptible to human ears as it appears on the graph unless you're playing a bass or baritone guitar.
Happy I saw this comment. As an amateur audio engineer, I'm already cutting most of my guitar EQ below 80 regardless. Bass guitar foundations are around the 40 hz range, so it also would be fine. Also, Boss has used several types of buffers over the years. A lot of them do/did have JFET buffers, but I believe their more modern pedals use silicone and others use op-amp. I am not an electrical engineer, so I have zero clue if that would change the results or if I am talking out of my butt. I saw that the Boss EQ-200 can go into frequencies at the 30 hz range, so I'm curious how that one works.
Just what i was searching, the truth with some information. Thanks a lot, i was getting hungry thinking about how buffers affect y signal. Finally a good explanation!
Boss pedals are not equal for sure. The ones I have tested attenuate the signal by ~0.7dB per pedal when off (and have that highpass/slight lowpass filtering going on). A special mention to boss NS2, which (when on) first amplifies the level by 1-1.5dB, then attenuates the treble from 1kHz so that it's at -4.5dB @5kHz & -7.5dB @10kHz. So overall a ~6dB drop in treble frequencies which are very much within the guitar frequency range. I have come to the conclusion that one or two Boss pedals are okay, you won't notice the difference much. Except if you have the NS2.
pikkuarska when I was a teen I bought an ns2. Knew it changed my tone quite obviously even when bypassed. At the time I liked it (was using a peavey bandit 112 at the time so the HF attenuation from the ns2 was helpful in taming some of the SS harshness). Pedal got stolen one day. Now, years later, I got one for super cheap used. Plugged it into my rig (which is pretty elaborate and decent compared to my teen days) and immediately said ‘wtf...?’. I fought with the ns2 for 6 hours and in the end just removed it and sold it off. The pedal is a great idea, just sounds awful to my ears, and does a really weird feedback sound if you put even slightly too much input gain into the return jack. Guess I was lucky it got stolen.
I only own one pedal that forces a buffer. My tumnus mini! It works perfect in my chain. Best piece of kit I've ever bought for between the amp and guitar.
Your avatar with your head coming in from the side is BRILLIANT, just like your pedals. Your mug sticks out like a sore thumb... Nice video. I guess I'll have to break out my A-B box and do some tone/ tone loss comparisons?.
it's probably worth noting that the areas with the most loss (under 100hz and above 15kHz) are areas where its either mud or where amps don't really recreate
Such an interesting topic. It's one of those things where we know the 'correct' way of doing it, but then others just compensate for the loss with a cranked boost and rock out.
"bored" is exactly how my LP sounds when playing through my 8 Boss pedals. A shame since I spend hours setting up each guitar. My old Chorus pedal started buzzing, and was going to replace it with another Boss, but after learning all about this topic, I'm giving my Boss pedals to the kids and replacing them with true bypass pedals.
@@The66Leadfoot ya that's probably too many buffers. I like one near the beginning.. Maxon od808. Maybe one at the end, but I find it unnecessary. If I ever buy another boss, it will probably be Waza. Those have nicer sounding buffers when bypassed, based on my youtube research.
A Pro Jr isn't a great pedal platform amp, since it has too little headroom. If you crank it up, you can get rich overdrive tone that's amazing for blues and rock, but it's not tight enough for metal
I learned from Jack Orman's post way back when (around '99-'00). I built a few of his circuit designs, but I still use the Fuxx Face to this day. Cool to hear his name come up.
Note that the ds1 has not the same value that some other boss and affect more the tone. .We have to say that 14 true bypass and you'll loose signal too. Even more if you cable is bad quality. And a buffered pedal will be really usefull.
I'm curious though, obviously not all buffers are created equal. For example, the buffers in Visual Sound /TrueTone pedals (which happens to be where RG Keen is working his magic these days), are much better than the Boss/Ibanez buffers. I've noticed in the past before getting a pedal switcher and forcing myself to limit the number of pedals to 8 (and there are never more a few in the signal chain at a time now) that I could have 16 pedals, mostly buffered and not notice any difference in signal loss - most of my buffered pedals were VS/TrueTone... in fact at one point that was the only brand I had. But then as soon as I stuck a pedal with a lesser buffer in the mix, the difference was quite obvious. Most newer Boss pedals and those gold coloured Marshall pedals particularly. Japanese Boss, not so much.
Nicely explained and demonstrated. I think it would be helpful to have a show on how buffers, wah pedals and different fuzz pedals interact, as that raise the mysterious concept of impedance :-)
Bryan, remember that with buffered bypass you generally are dealing with active EQ. Also, take your true bypass out of the pedal chain. And on top of that, try running a true bypass box directly into an interface. From there, do the same thing with buffered bypass. The buffered bypass will sound better by far. Let me know if you have any questions or anything that I can help with. :) I personally use Tech21 NYC. I am putting a lot of thought into selling my Wampler boxes. Sorry Bryan. I don't have anything against your company. I just find that my Tech21 NYC box does all that I need. I would like a good spring reverb but I would like it to be buffered bypass. One more thing. If you take a line of true bypass boxes and you stretch a cable across the room, you'll kill your signal chain. Pros and cons to both to be honest.
It says a lot about Boss (™) that they are even on his pedal board. I tend to enjoy their sound even though I have been brainwashed to only "want" boutique pedals by marketing and salespeople. I guess allowing somebody else to tell me what I "want" for many years was a ignorant. So thanks for debunking the signal chain degradation issue for us Wampler Pedals. I really enjoyed when you described "transparency" also... I noticed that as a huge marketing buzzword for sometime now (even though I appreciate "more" transparent pedals rather than the kind that suck up your guitar's tone)... Cool trick with the EQ. Dunno why there's not one in my chain now.
Great stuff! How would all this cable length compare to using just an inexpensive battery powered wireless receiver and transmitter? I’ve been using these $50 transmitters for practice, rehearsal, and gigs, and I’m starting to wonder why doesn’t everybody use them-or why the old-school Nady wireless looking rigs are still being used. I have some ideas, but would love to hear some feedback from others… or if anything has changed in the four years since this original video.
I am a bit surprised, aside from the volume drop the actual sound of the signal going true all those pedal buffers did not deteriorated it actually sounded a bit more hi-fi which might be good or bad depending to what your looking for but I kind find it good overall for my tastes. I was expecting a drastic change in signal quality with so many crap in between guitar and amp.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Minimum volume loss isn't that big of a deal. Maybe something to think about with a ton of pedals, but for a smaller board, not bad at all. That's what these true bypass and boutique pedal hipsters don't realize. Running tons of cable with all true bypass will give you a world of more problems.
So if you only have 1 or 2 battery-powered pedals and a pretty long cable, you're probably far better off having a non-true bypass pedal. Fits with the whole way boss pedals were originally ran when I was young, and no-one was obsessed with true bypass or had such pedalboard fetishes. (I'm not trying to be condescending here, I'm an engineer and I've got a ridiculous pedalboard with TBP pedals and switchers; thanks for these vids Brian as there's too many people who don't know what they're talking about and I've run out of patience trying to explain to them myself 🙂)
It's a good point, although in my case per example I am using only a ts808 (buffered) in my system and I really hear already some loss of signal. That's why I start to hate using pedals... They suck all of your mojo.
I use a 6 bay patch pedal so all my effects go into the patch then only the effect im using at any one time is in the loop. I then use a Boss 7 band EQ pedal at the end of the chain after the patch pedal to raise or cut the signal.
I do have a lot of Boss Pedals on my Board but i have to say that i didn't have so much loss of Volume , I Put my 3 Modulation Pedals in the FX loop and my Drive and EQ direct into my amp. maybe thats the secret cause 8-10 pedals in a single row could cause Volume loss but maybe splitting them not :D Like your content :D
Hey Brian, and thanks for your very useful and informative videos! How many buffered/j-fet/flip-flop bypass pedals are too many? And does the power influence that in any way? (Daisy-chain vs individual power) Or the pedal order, for that matter? (Eg: buffered --> true --> true --> true --> true --> buffered --> true --> true... etc.) Love your contents, cheers from Portugal!
In general, listen to your signal chain the way you would any other tone-shaping element as it all makes an audible difference that either works for you or doesn't.
Love those vids. On my current board I have a Boss pedal (TU-3) at the begining and another Boss at the end (TR-2) most of what's in between is true bypass I believe (DOD Gunslinger, EHX LPB, Dunlop Fuzz Face, Vox Wah, MXR Carbon copy) ok, not sure about the wah but the others are advertized as such. And yep, I like it. I never quite attempted ABeing (that a word?) with/without but I get a decent sound with all pedals bypassed (buffered or not) I did try the TR-2 in the effects loop of the amp and it killed the sound. I guess the buffer killed the pre-amp boost and that resulted in absolutely no power amp breakdown. With it in front of the amp it rocks though.
A bit of necroposting. In my case, having any buffer before or even after my modded EHX Screaming Bird affects my tone a lot more than two 5m cables. It's an "always on" pedal for me. Try LPB (same design as SB, different cap values) or Fuzz Face alone and how they react to your guitar's pots. IIRC Brian May uses his treble booster right after guitar and before a wireless system just to retain as much tone as possible. My old through-hole era VOX V847 has integrated buffer which cuts A LOT of high range. Luckily it was easily converted to true-bypass. That said, I'm not against buffers and I might consider adding some between my SB and AC30 if it would be worth it.
Thanks for going through this. So the difference in sound with too many buffer pedals is obvious here, but I’m still a little confused in what is being recommended. Do you have a video of a mostly true bypass pedal chain with just the ideal amount of buffer pedals for comparison?
Great video, thanks for posting it, I appreciate your hard work! While static frequency response measurements are of vital importance, has there been any research on dynamic measurements? Impulse response and other parameters in that vein would be very interesting in seeing if any dynamic range losses are occurring thru the active bypass circuits.
I run into a little buffer made by klon then into 6 pedals of which some are TB some aren't, tone is the same going through pedals or direct, with 20ft cable.
Actually, you're not losing that much range. Roughly 5 db volume, and your low-end cutoff if around 50 Hz - 60 cycle "hum" is around 60 Hz. The high-end drop, you'll virtually never hear, especially when you get older. If you're that concerned, tweak the volume knob of your Boss distortion pedal up a hair and it'll compensate. The problem with making comparisons between True Bypass and buffered bypass is that - at one point - you will have A pedal on, whose characteristics will change your tone in one way or another, and those high and low end losses will be virtually nil due to basic limitations within any "on" circuit. Analnog delays and chorus? The BBD devices in them distort and lose upper end frequencies due to resolution and the internal cascading of fets (and there are a lot of them).. This is just one example. But yeah, if you want a truly "clean" tone when everything is off then true bypass is the way to go. Then again, it's probably cheaper to do a true bypass A/B switch then to convert all of your pedals to true bypass.
Would I get away with using the new TC Electronic tuner which has the built in buffer? Just wondered if that would be enough or if a separate buffer is needed as a dedicated pedal for example?
Awesome video! Would love to see this reproduced with Boss Waza pedals. Boss claims that Waza has much better buffers across the board. So my question would be: how many chained Waza pedals until we can hear a deterioration in either volume, tone or noise floor? Tks!
5 pedals in front, 4 pedals in FX loop. When I have added Boss PS-6 I have noticed the tone sucks right away. Have not noticed it that much before (all Boss pedals). Really easy to hear a difference when you have footstwitchable FX loop./ I am still debating what to do with it (I probably will just live with it) but I have tried all analog & true bypass pedals only as well and let me tell you... it wasn't great either lol. EHX Small Clone pops so loud it can make you deaf (first time, later ones are still loud but at least a few times quiter), TC electronic Flanger have a little cracking/popping noise when engaging + it switches on when you lift off your foot. Boss pedals are so nice to stomp onto and super quiet on/off. Too bad they do suck in a considerable amount of tone and volume/ If you have a mix of pedals I think you would be good though./
I'm yet to have a wampler pedal. Don't want to pull the triger on the paisley deluxe because I had no idea of the existence of Brad Paisley before this deluxe version. But I like it. Now I started to like this Brian Sir too much. Have to get one definitively.
I actually kinda liked the sound of it through all the pedals with the EQ..I think that "sparkliness" sound you said,thats what Im talking about..so I liked the sound..without the EQ,yea it sounds better bypassed...
Isn't there a capacitance problem with any passive cable longer than 18.5 ft? I seem to remember that some high-end audiophile cables are being made active with the addition of a tiny battery.
*Question* I have 10 True Bypass pedals in my board and a Boss pedal laying around in my room. Can I take that Boss pedal and put it in my signal chain just for the Buffer on it? If yes, where do I put it in the signal chain?
Pretty interesting. The JFET flip flop graph is attenuating bass, but that stuff is so low. Does it really matter on a guitar signal? If anything it might be helping since your amp can't amplify that frequency anyway.
Hi guys we use several pedals in the chain. First is a wampler compression ego then modulations then OD then looper then volume pedal for swells then delays then looper then delays then reverb. What’s the best way to boost at the end of the chain (after a reverb pedal) ? Is a base station like a boss rc 300 a good idea at the end of the chain before the amps? Thanks 🙏🏻
A DI boxes primary function is to convert a signal between balanced and single ended operation. It shouldn't alter your tone, but you will notice a change in loudness. The process of balancing a signal leaves you with a 4-6db increase in level. But in order for all this to work, both ends of the connection have to be balanced. If not, the system will default to single ended operation and the DI box will have no effect at all.
I prefer clean boost type pedals at the end of the chain, but I’m also a weirdo that likes modulation before gain. The Pedal Bored! I love your channel. Great demos.
*Is a tube screamer, Ibanez, buffered too??* So I've got a ts9 and an sd1 on a board of 12, mostly Way Huge - and some other true bypass pedals.... although..not sure about the Black Cat Moan Wah, now I think about it..?! (Black Cat Moan is Rocktron, btw- frkkn dynamite too! Whatever the "moan" is, i.e. the extra optional dirt. Some say it's germanium. It is the most dynamic and responsive dirt chip on my whole board!)
Brian: In my home setup I have about 20 pedals going into 3 separate amps. I use the Morely Tripler at the end of the board before the amps and I have a MXR CAE Buffer at the front. I only have 2 Boss Pedals (Blues Drive and Tremolo) and I have a volume pedal right before the Tripler. My question is how much boost should I be using from the Tripler or the CAE Buffer? I have been using zero boost on the front from the CAE and have been using a little at the end from the Triple to maintain unity. Is this the correct way to do it? Could I benefit from having an EQ pedal with some boost in the chain too? If so where?
With this I am reminded of the teachings of the Buddha; in that too much, or too little of something can be equally as bad. The middle path is always best.
I've been wanting to purchase and place a Univibe type pedal in front of a buffered overdrive then into the amp. Then have time based effects in the effects loop. I have not been able to find a buffered Univibe type pedal. When I tried the same thing with a late 70's phase 45, it totally sucked the tone with the phaser bypassed. I'm concerned that this will happen if I put a non buffered pedal at the front of my pedal chain. Or, if I put the non buffered pedal along with my buffered overdrive in the loop of my Boss noise gate, will this eliminate the tone suck?
Very important distinction that always needs to be made in this discussion is the vintage "Hardwire" bypass like a lot of MXR and Dunlop pedals. They are not true bypass nor are they buffered causing significant tone loss when disengaged. In reality a buffer is only really needed if you plan on using an unaltered clean sound while also having a large pedalboard, because as soon as even one pedal gets turned on that effectively works as the buffer, so there is no need for a stand alone buffer in many cases. The title is misleading in the fact that it simply states "Non-true bypass switching" when it should really say "buffered bypass switching." Non true bypass does NOT equal buffered bypass and vice versa. I only discovered this distinction earlier this year exploring why crybaby wahs suck so much tone. I had never heard anyone mention this in any video for any pedal demo or discussion since my pedal obsession started nearly a decade ago.
I have a question... Is it possible (or better to say harmless) to connect two (or more) boss pedals to ONE BOSS SWITCH (one small black switch that I removed from an old boss ds-1 I moded to be a true bypass) , so I can turn on two or more pedals at once... What I think to do is some wire extensions from any of my pedals to that switch so I can use it like a "master" switch, or simple to connect all switches with some parallel connection... Will that work?
Nice. Very clear explanation. Just one question: "How many non-true bypass pedals are too much? Meaning: if I just have one or two, will this tone-loss be perceivable?"
I run 6 different pedals in my effect loop of my amp. 1 is the BOSS MT-2 Metal Zone. Then Twin Looper Pedal, a Moore Pre Amp Freidman Brown Eye, noise gate, and a delay. Then thru the front of my amp I run another 11 pedals. Starting with a Wah, then compression pedal them then running into my 1st overdrive pedal. Then I run thru a loop pedal that starts taking my BOSS Pedals and a couple other out of the direct path. This simple device does a great job of redirecting single chains or running more than one pedal at once with ability to turn them on or off at once. www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-Looper-Guitar-3Loop-Pedal-switch-Board-True-Bypass-Channel-Selection/113693362551?hash=item1a78a70977:g:EqEAAOSwgBNawteh
Interesting video! Analogmike about change boss pedals true bypass: "Also these pedals do not suck tone like a wah wah when off, as they use active electronic FET switching so it is not much of a benefit if any at all." BTW which are the good buffers?
Hey Mr. Wampler! I would like to suggest a video about true bypass (mechanical bypass) and why the "click" noise happens and ways to prevent it! I mean threre's ton of information about "pop" noise on the internet (led current draw, pull down resistors and so on) but nearly nothing about the mechanical click that some 3pdt does and can be noticed specially with high gain pedals! Thanks!
Thanks Brian great info, I believe I have done a bit of research and think I have things good on my board, but would like an opinion if you have a min to do so. my board starts with a TC tuner, twin city tone bone ABY switcher (buffer inside) and then through 7 true bypass pedals + an "American Loopers" loop switcher (5 channel). at the end I have a TC Bonafide buffer out to the "A" amp. The "B" amp is a direct run from the ABY switcher. I normally run 25 foot of cable on both ends of the board. Does this all sound like a sound approach. Is the TC buffer not needed (overkill)?
One thing I can't figure out: is the buffer (like in boss or ibanez pedals) active and only works when the powered pedal is off or is it always on even when it's on?
It is effectively on while the pedal is on since the circuitry itself becomes the buffer. I went into slightly more detail in a separate comment below this video if you're curious.
I know this is an old video but I have a question. Is the big drop in the low end mostly due to the fact that all buffer circuits run through capacitors for biasing? Or do jfets actually have a non linear frequency response? If its just about the capacitors then would making them bigger reduce the low end loss? Also, is the volume loss just from cutting the low mud or is there also an overall volume change? If so, is it because many boss pedals have simple emitter-follower-ish buffers in front of the circuit (emitter follower usually has gain slightly below unity). Would that be fixed by using real unity gain op amps? Again I know this is an old video but I hope someone will read this and help me understand :)
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but you gotta watch out for some pedals, classic fuzzes in particular, that sound awful following any kind of buffer.
yeah, my fuzz factory sounds very bad, but they were made to work in front of the guitar (as you can see the big difference in tone when you reduce the volume, thus impedance).
You can only compare it with the pedals off, because as soon as you turn on one of the pedals it'll change your signal so much that there'll be no comparison. Which is why I think the issue is rather moot. Who has a bunch of buffered pedals that they leave off all the time? And even if they do, they could just boost the volume level a bit and get back to where they would have been with true bypass, assuming that's even an issue.
So if I’m understand right you will lose certain frequencies power with boss pedals but you can counteract it with boost/eq? I’m currently running 3 boss but I’m looking into adding another one or two
Does the same thing happen when the pedal is on? (Ignoring that there's an effect there too). Bummer that BOSS haven't started to add a "buffer/bypass" to their pedals so people can choose themselves.
"It looks horrible but it functions just fine"
I'm sure that has been said about me, many a time.
I love that website. Now I know a little about the people behind it. Thanks, Brian
Matt Gilbert Lol !!!
Thanks for the nod, Brian. :-) And for giving props to Jack and RG, too. Nice video, as per usual.
What I think many younger players don't often consider is that a great many pedals were designed for an era whan a "pedalboard" might have consisted of maybe 3 or 4 pedals, battery-powered, and just sitting loosely on the floor. An example might be Hendrix's prototypic wah-Uni-vibe-Fuzz-Face configuration. In many instances - and I'll bring up Jimi here again - the pedals were used in conjunction with lousy higher-capacitance cable that ate up so much top end that whatever buffers *might* have subtracted paled in comparison to what the cable did. (I say "might" because none of those pedals were buffered).
But we are in a different era, now. Players are assembling pedalboards that often resemble music-store showrooms, and better-quality cables are both widely available, and widely used. Long story short, we are able to finally *hear* nice crisp top end, but we're also throwing a LOT of obstacles in the way of it with our pedalboards.
When it comes to buffers and true-bypass, I'm a firm believer that you don't get something for nothing. As Jack demonstrated, buffers can have a *cumulative* effect. That is, one at a time, they are absolutely innocuous and well-designed. Six at a time is a different story. Not only in terms of bandwidth loss, but cumulative hiss as well. Yes, they are quiet, but less so than straight wire, and after 6 or 8 in a row, barely measurable hiss can start to add up to audible hiss.
I will stick my big BUT in here (shout out to Pee-Wee's Big Adventure), regarding what I like to call "pedal ventriloquism". This is a phenomenon that happens when a true-bypass pedal is inserted immediately before a buffered pedal, such as a Boss unit. Perhaps they've rectified it by now, but the majority of small-form Boss pedals have an "unterminated" input cap on the input buffer. They do this to reduce any loading. Unterminated input caps are prone to audible popping. You will hear a possible thump when you first plug in. But since the bypass switching is done electronically and *internally* , there is no switch-popping thereafter. When you stick a TB pedal *in front of* such an e-switched pedal, though, every time you hit its stompswitch, you momentarily disconnect then reconnect that pedal to the the buffered pedal after it. If there is any charge stored in that second pedal's input cap, it will produce an annoying and audible pop. It *sounds* like it is coming from the TB pedal because that's the stompswitch that appears to produce it, but it is coming from the Boss-type buffered pedal that has the unterminated input cap. Hence my term of "pedal ventriloquism" - one pedal throwing its voice to another.
Classic Boss-type e-switched pedals WERE well-designed, and nicely quiet. But they were not designed in anticipation of being mingled with TB pedals. Is this a soluble problem? Thankfully, yes. All it involves is soldering a suitable resistor of, say, 1M to 2M7, from the hot lead to ground on the input jack of the e-switched pedal. This will provide an always-available path for that input cap to bleed off stored charge, without loading down the pedal and eating away at bandwidth.
very well explained, and 100% accurate!! It's maddening as a manufacturer. And Mark, I'll always be appreciative of all of the knowledge you and others have passed on to us. There's way too many to list but diystompboxes.com and ampage were the places that I and many popular builders learned. I hope you know that you helped to forge an entire industry and affected many lives just by being helpful!
You're too kind, and give me too much credit. Like both RG and Jack, I wallowed in whatever Craig Anderton, Robert Penfold, and John Simonton provided for 20 years, starting in the mid-70's. When the web and forums finally came along, the unfettered access we all now had to other's knowledge, and schematics, shifted everything into overdrive. All I did was watch, soak it all up, and dream up stuff when my mind wandered at work. I guess it paid off.
Long live Ampage! I was Jason B. on there back in the early days. Great to see so many from back then are still active in the amp/pedal world! When it comes to amps, you have to give Bruce Collins of Mission Amps some kudos as well!
Steve "T-Boy" Morrison, who maintains AMPAGE (now Music Electronics Forum), and Aron Nelson, who maintains the DIYStompbox forum, are both assured their place in heaven. Both have faithfully maintained their respective sites for several decades. In an age when so much on the internet comes and goes like dandelions, it is reassuring to be able to visit both of those sites, find familiar names, and call up discussions from long ago.
Orman, Hammer and Keen are my heroes too. And Fred Briggs, Anderton and of course Wampler. This has been one of my (too many) hobbies since building a fuzz in 1968, followed by a bucket brigade phaser. Still messing around with circuits, although it's pretty hard to come up with anything really original now that digital has taken over. Long live analog!! and keep the vids coming!
I'm comforted that the answer is always.. More pedals!
you should do the same style of video with true bypass pedals to demonstrate that there is also degradation in the signal due to the multiple connections from pedal to pedal
@Henry Daniel This is such an informative piece of writing, and a brilliant reminder too 🎶🎸🍻
Yes but if you'll use just one or two pedals, like I am doing it, you don't almost hear any loss of signal with true bypass pedals. The opposite, with buffered pedals, I can hear the signal loss with only one pedal already. So...
@@laranjiinha77 cool! I can't.
Totally agree about it.this video is a bit bias.14 true bypass lets see the highs hahahaha
I feel like there should be a little disclaimer when talking about the scary looking 4 buffered pedal graph. The -3dB cutoff for the low cut appears to be around 24 Hz or so, which is at the very limit of human hearing. In fact, the guitar in standard tuning only produces frequencies as low as 88 Hz, which is shown on this plot as only has about a half decibel drop relative to the majority of the frequency response, so that low cut isn't going to be as perceptible to human ears as it appears on the graph unless you're playing a bass or baritone guitar.
Happy I saw this comment. As an amateur audio engineer, I'm already cutting most of my guitar EQ below 80 regardless. Bass guitar foundations are around the 40 hz range, so it also would be fine. Also, Boss has used several types of buffers over the years. A lot of them do/did have JFET buffers, but I believe their more modern pedals use silicone and others use op-amp. I am not an electrical engineer, so I have zero clue if that would change the results or if I am talking out of my butt.
I saw that the Boss EQ-200 can go into frequencies at the 30 hz range, so I'm curious how that one works.
I like the idea of buffered bypass if the buffers are op-amp based, since those offer both high input impedance and no loss of signal.
Perfect timing, I had done some tone analysis of my own recently and your video confirms my findings. Thank you
Love the geek vids. I am also a geek with boxes of disassembled things and soldering iron burns.
Love from Canada :)
Just keep a window open for fresh air and, "I love the smell of fresh solder in the morning"...it smells like....Greek Orthodox church incense.
Just what i was searching, the truth with some information. Thanks a lot, i was getting hungry thinking about how buffers affect y signal. Finally a good explanation!
Thanks Brian this is info that alot of players don't think about and should.
Boss pedals are not equal for sure. The ones I have tested attenuate the signal by ~0.7dB per pedal when off (and have that highpass/slight lowpass filtering going on). A special mention to boss NS2, which (when on) first amplifies the level by 1-1.5dB, then attenuates the treble from 1kHz so that it's at -4.5dB @5kHz & -7.5dB @10kHz. So overall a ~6dB drop in treble frequencies which are very much within the guitar frequency range. I have come to the conclusion that one or two Boss pedals are okay, you won't notice the difference much. Except if you have the NS2.
pikkuarska when I was a teen I bought an ns2. Knew it changed my tone quite obviously even when bypassed. At the time I liked it (was using a peavey bandit 112 at the time so the HF attenuation from the ns2 was helpful in taming some of the SS harshness). Pedal got stolen one day. Now, years later, I got one for super cheap used. Plugged it into my rig (which is pretty elaborate and decent compared to my teen days) and immediately said ‘wtf...?’.
I fought with the ns2 for 6 hours and in the end just removed it and sold it off. The pedal is a great idea, just sounds awful to my ears, and does a really weird feedback sound if you put even slightly too much input gain into the return jack. Guess I was lucky it got stolen.
I only own one pedal that forces a buffer. My tumnus mini! It works perfect in my chain. Best piece of kit I've ever bought for between the amp and guitar.
Your avatar with your head coming in from the side is BRILLIANT, just like your pedals. Your mug sticks out like a sore thumb... Nice video. I guess I'll have to break out my A-B box and do some tone/ tone loss comparisons?.
it's probably worth noting that the areas with the most loss (under 100hz and above 15kHz) are areas where its either mud or where amps don't really recreate
I can't even hear above 14Khz. On the lower end though, I think 70-80 Hz would still be important to retain.
Morel of the story is, dont keep pedals on ur board that you dont use. Find your sound with the least # of pedals possible
Such an interesting topic. It's one of those things where we know the 'correct' way of doing it, but then others just compensate for the loss with a cranked boost and rock out.
For what boss is charging for their anniversary pedals now they should all be handwired and true bypass and come with a free sammich!
Thanks for the video. I'm not crazy after all for taking my boss pedals off my bored.
"bored" is exactly how my LP sounds when playing through my 8 Boss pedals. A shame since I spend hours setting up each guitar. My old Chorus pedal started buzzing, and was going to replace it with another Boss, but after learning all about this topic, I'm giving my Boss pedals to the kids and replacing them with true bypass pedals.
@@The66Leadfoot ya that's probably too many buffers. I like one near the beginning.. Maxon od808. Maybe one at the end, but I find it unnecessary. If I ever buy another boss, it will probably be Waza. Those have nicer sounding buffers when bypassed, based on my youtube research.
Me: I play metal
Him: oh really what gear do you use
Me: oh have I have a tele into a pro junior
Him: how do you get distorted
Me:
4:00
Suhail Couto ahahaha!
A Pro Jr isn't a great pedal platform amp, since it has too little headroom. If you crank it up, you can get rich overdrive tone that's amazing for blues and rock, but it's not tight enough for metal
I like the ADA MP-1 on top of the Orange - nice touch
I learned from Jack Orman's post way back when (around '99-'00). I built a few of his circuit designs, but I still use the Fuxx Face to this day. Cool to hear his name come up.
Love this video and these types of videos! Keep em coming. Great work, and much thanks!
Note that the ds1 has not the same value that some other boss and affect more the tone.
.We have to say that 14 true bypass and you'll loose signal too. Even more if you cable is bad quality. And a buffered pedal will be really usefull.
I'm curious though, obviously not all buffers are created equal. For example, the buffers in Visual Sound /TrueTone pedals (which happens to be where RG Keen is working his magic these days), are much better than the Boss/Ibanez buffers.
I've noticed in the past before getting a pedal switcher and forcing myself to limit the number of pedals to 8 (and there are never more a few in the signal chain at a time now) that I could have 16 pedals, mostly buffered and not notice any difference in signal loss - most of my buffered pedals were VS/TrueTone... in fact at one point that was the only brand I had. But then as soon as I stuck a pedal with a lesser buffer in the mix, the difference was quite obvious. Most newer Boss pedals and those gold coloured Marshall pedals particularly. Japanese Boss, not so much.
Nicely explained and demonstrated. I think it would be helpful to have a show on how buffers, wah pedals and different fuzz pedals interact, as that raise the mysterious concept of impedance :-)
You have certainly given me something to think about here .
Bryan, remember that with buffered bypass you generally are dealing with active EQ.
Also, take your true bypass out of the pedal chain.
And on top of that, try running a true bypass box directly into an interface. From there, do the same thing with buffered bypass. The buffered bypass will sound better by far.
Let me know if you have any questions or anything that I can help with. :)
I personally use Tech21 NYC.
I am putting a lot of thought into selling my Wampler boxes. Sorry Bryan. I don't have anything against your company. I just find that my Tech21 NYC box does all that I need.
I would like a good spring reverb but I would like it to be buffered bypass.
One more thing.
If you take a line of true bypass boxes and you stretch a cable across the room, you'll kill your signal chain.
Pros and cons to both to be honest.
It says a lot about Boss (™) that they are even on his pedal board. I tend to enjoy their sound even though I have been brainwashed to only "want" boutique pedals by marketing and salespeople. I guess allowing somebody else to tell me what I "want" for many years was a ignorant. So thanks for debunking the signal chain degradation issue for us Wampler Pedals. I really enjoyed when you described "transparency" also... I noticed that as a huge marketing buzzword for sometime now (even though I appreciate "more" transparent pedals rather than the kind that suck up your guitar's tone)... Cool trick with the EQ. Dunno why there's not one in my chain now.
Great stuff! How would all this cable length compare to using just an inexpensive battery powered wireless receiver and transmitter? I’ve been using these $50 transmitters for practice, rehearsal, and gigs, and I’m starting to wonder why doesn’t everybody use them-or why the old-school Nady wireless looking rigs are still being used. I have some ideas, but would love to hear some feedback from others… or if anything has changed in the four years since this original video.
I am a bit surprised, aside from the volume drop the actual sound of the signal going true all those pedal buffers did not deteriorated it actually sounded a bit more hi-fi which might be good or bad depending to what your looking for but I kind find it good overall for my tastes. I was expecting a drastic change in signal quality with so many crap in between guitar and amp.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Minimum volume loss isn't that big of a deal. Maybe something to think about with a ton of pedals, but for a smaller board, not bad at all. That's what these true bypass and boutique pedal hipsters don't realize. Running tons of cable with all true bypass will give you a world of more problems.
Awesome vid, awesome Jack Orman reference.
So if you only have 1 or 2 battery-powered pedals and a pretty long cable, you're probably far better off having a non-true bypass pedal. Fits with the whole way boss pedals were originally ran when I was young, and no-one was obsessed with true bypass or had such pedalboard fetishes. (I'm not trying to be condescending here, I'm an engineer and I've got a ridiculous pedalboard with TBP pedals and switchers; thanks for these vids Brian as there's too many people who don't know what they're talking about and I've run out of patience trying to explain to them myself 🙂)
It's a good point, although in my case per example I am using only a ts808 (buffered) in my system and I really hear already some loss of signal. That's why I start to hate using pedals... They suck all of your mojo.
@@laranjiinha77 then you need the TC Electronics MojoMojo (true bypass) pedal. Your guitar will thank you.
Great video Brian!
i always thought tht the buffer was meant to keep the signal strong. thing is a good video
I use a 6 bay patch pedal so all my effects go into the patch then only the effect im using at any one time is in the loop. I then use a Boss 7 band EQ pedal at the end of the chain after the patch pedal to raise or cut the signal.
I see you have my beloved Ibanez Jet Driver in the chain.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us! Also you totally should do a collaborative pedal with Matthews Effects 😉. Rick is a solid dude!
I do have a lot of Boss Pedals on my Board but i have to say that i didn't have so much loss of Volume , I Put my 3 Modulation Pedals in the FX loop and my Drive and EQ direct into my amp. maybe thats the secret cause 8-10 pedals in a single row could cause Volume loss but maybe splitting them not :D
Like your content :D
Hey Brian, and thanks for your very useful and informative videos!
How many buffered/j-fet/flip-flop bypass pedals are too many? And does the power influence that in any way? (Daisy-chain vs individual power) Or the pedal order, for that matter? (Eg: buffered --> true --> true --> true --> true --> buffered --> true --> true... etc.)
Love your contents, cheers from Portugal!
Id like to see A/B between the sound of 14 boss (buffered pedals) VS 14 true bypass pedals (no buffering) same cable length. Anyone tried it?
That ADA MP1 brings back memories. Had that with a Digitech 31 band midi programable eq. ran through a Marshal . Good times monster tone.
In general, listen to your signal chain the way you would any other tone-shaping element as it all makes an audible difference that either works for you or doesn't.
Love those vids. On my current board I have a Boss pedal (TU-3) at the begining and another Boss at the end (TR-2) most of what's in between is true bypass I believe (DOD Gunslinger, EHX LPB, Dunlop Fuzz Face, Vox Wah, MXR Carbon copy) ok, not sure about the wah but the others are advertized as such. And yep, I like it.
I never quite attempted ABeing (that a word?) with/without but I get a decent sound with all pedals bypassed (buffered or not)
I did try the TR-2 in the effects loop of the amp and it killed the sound. I guess the buffer killed the pre-amp boost and that resulted in absolutely no power amp breakdown. With it in front of the amp it rocks though.
A bit of necroposting.
In my case, having any buffer before or even after my modded EHX Screaming Bird affects my tone a lot more than two 5m cables. It's an "always on" pedal for me.
Try LPB (same design as SB, different cap values) or Fuzz Face alone and how they react to your guitar's pots. IIRC Brian May uses his treble booster right after guitar and before a wireless system just to retain as much tone as possible.
My old through-hole era VOX V847 has integrated buffer which cuts A LOT of high range. Luckily it was easily converted to true-bypass.
That said, I'm not against buffers and I might consider adding some between my SB and AC30 if it would be worth it.
This is science. Love it.
Thanks for going through this. So the difference in sound with too many buffer pedals is obvious here, but I’m still a little confused in what is being recommended. Do you have a video of a mostly true bypass pedal chain with just the ideal amount of buffer pedals for comparison?
Great video, thanks for posting it, I appreciate your hard work! While static frequency response measurements are of vital importance, has there been any research on dynamic measurements? Impulse response and other parameters in that vein would be very interesting in seeing if any dynamic range losses are occurring thru the active bypass circuits.
I run into a little buffer made by klon then into 6 pedals of which some are TB some aren't, tone is the same going through pedals or direct, with 20ft cable.
Actually, you're not losing that much range. Roughly 5 db volume, and your low-end cutoff if around 50 Hz - 60 cycle "hum" is around 60 Hz. The high-end drop, you'll virtually never hear, especially when you get older. If you're that concerned, tweak the volume knob of your Boss distortion pedal up a hair and it'll compensate. The problem with making comparisons between True Bypass and buffered bypass is that - at one point - you will have A pedal on, whose characteristics will change your tone in one way or another, and those high and low end losses will be virtually nil due to basic limitations within any "on" circuit. Analnog delays and chorus? The BBD devices in them distort and lose upper end frequencies due to resolution and the internal cascading of fets (and there are a lot of them).. This is just one example. But yeah, if you want a truly "clean" tone when everything is off then true bypass is the way to go. Then again, it's probably cheaper to do a true bypass A/B switch then to convert all of your pedals to true bypass.
Can I say let your ears be the judge and see if it's the sound you're looking for?
Great video... might have to watch it a few times to get my head around it, but good stuff!!! :)
I hope you make more videos on buffer bypass
I enjoy this stuff. Thanks.
Would I get away with using the new TC Electronic tuner which has the built in buffer? Just wondered if that would be enough or if a separate buffer is needed as a dedicated pedal for example?
Thank you!!!!!!!
Awesome video! Would love to see this reproduced with Boss Waza pedals. Boss claims that Waza has much better buffers across the board. So my question would be: how many chained Waza pedals until we can hear a deterioration in either volume, tone or noise floor? Tks!
Would like to see this same test, but instead of sound level, check for time delay.
Boss pedals are great for beginners. I still use one pedal. The DD5 and partially for its buffering at the end of my chain.
5 pedals in front, 4 pedals in FX loop. When I have added Boss PS-6 I have noticed the tone sucks right away. Have not noticed it that much before (all Boss pedals). Really easy to hear a difference when you have footstwitchable FX loop./ I am still debating what to do with it (I probably will just live with it) but I have tried all analog & true bypass pedals only as well and let me tell you... it wasn't great either lol. EHX Small Clone pops so loud it can make you deaf (first time, later ones are still loud but at least a few times quiter), TC electronic Flanger have a little cracking/popping noise when engaging + it switches on when you lift off your foot. Boss pedals are so nice to stomp onto and super quiet on/off. Too bad they do suck in a considerable amount of tone and volume/ If you have a mix of pedals I think you would be good though./
dod pedals from the 80s use the buffered circuitry,as I recall.I have a modded dod chorus that is the only buffered pedal in my setup.
I'm yet to have a wampler pedal. Don't want to pull the triger on the paisley deluxe because I had no idea of the existence of Brad Paisley before this deluxe version. But I like it. Now I started to like this Brian Sir too much. Have to get one definitively.
I actually kinda liked the sound of it through all the pedals with the EQ..I think that "sparkliness" sound you said,thats what Im talking about..so I liked the sound..without the EQ,yea it sounds better bypassed...
Awesome! Thank you so much
Notice anything like this when using “better” buffered pedals like a bunch of tc electronics in the chain?
I thought I was just crazy thinking my amp sounds different with a few inactive pedals in the chain vs a straight cable into amp.
Isn't there a capacitance problem with any passive cable longer than 18.5 ft? I seem to remember that some high-end audiophile cables are being made active with the addition of a tiny battery.
That is exactly why you want a buffer.
The idea of putting batteries in my cables makes me want to burn my guitars and buy a fishing rod.
How about a video on the difference between active eq and passive eqs. Forgive me if you already have. Thanks
*Question*
I have 10 True Bypass pedals in my board and a Boss pedal laying around in my room.
Can I take that Boss pedal and put it in my signal chain just for the Buffer on it?
If yes, where do I put it in the signal chain?
Yes you can, just run it first before everything except fuzzes generally.
@@wampler_pedals Thank you!
and first...great video.
Dig it. Awesome video
@Wampler Pedals How do you do the bleed fix mod on the SD-1?
Pretty interesting. The JFET flip flop graph is attenuating bass, but that stuff is so low. Does it really matter on a guitar signal? If anything it might be helping since your amp can't amplify that frequency anyway.
Hi guys we use several pedals in the chain. First is a wampler compression ego then modulations then OD then looper then volume pedal for swells then delays then looper then delays then reverb. What’s the best way to boost at the end of the chain (after a reverb pedal) ?
Is a base station like a boss rc 300 a good idea at the end of the chain before the amps?
Thanks 🙏🏻
Hi Brian, can a D.I. box at the end will help retain the tone?
A DI boxes primary function is to convert a signal between balanced and single ended operation. It shouldn't alter your tone, but you will notice a change in loudness. The process of balancing a signal leaves you with a 4-6db increase in level. But in order for all this to work, both ends of the connection have to be balanced. If not, the system will default to single ended operation and the DI box will have no effect at all.
Does it matter where you put the level-boosting pedal (the Boss GE-7 in this case)? Does it need to be early on or later in the chain?
I prefer clean boost type pedals at the end of the chain, but I’m also a weirdo that likes modulation before gain.
The Pedal Bored! I love your channel. Great demos.
Nice video!
I never noticed that A/DA MP-1,has that been on the Orange for a while?I bought my first MP-1 new in 1988,I still have the MP-1,MB-1,and MP-2.
*Is a tube screamer, Ibanez, buffered too??* So I've got a ts9 and an sd1 on a board of 12, mostly Way Huge - and some other true bypass pedals.... although..not sure about the Black Cat Moan Wah, now I think about it..?! (Black Cat Moan is Rocktron, btw- frkkn dynamite too! Whatever the "moan" is, i.e. the extra optional dirt. Some say it's germanium. It is the most dynamic and responsive dirt chip on my whole board!)
Brian: In my home setup I have about 20 pedals going into 3 separate amps. I use the Morely Tripler at the end of the board before the amps and I have a MXR CAE Buffer at the front. I only have 2 Boss Pedals (Blues Drive and Tremolo) and I have a volume pedal right before the Tripler. My question is how much boost should I be using from the Tripler or the CAE Buffer? I have been using zero boost on the front from the CAE and have been using a little at the end from the Triple to maintain unity. Is this the correct way to do it? Could I benefit from having an EQ pedal with some boost in the chain too? If so where?
With this I am reminded of the teachings of the Buddha; in that too much, or too little of something can be equally as bad. The middle path is always best.
All things in moderation!
I've been wanting to purchase and place a Univibe type pedal in front of a buffered overdrive then into the amp. Then have time based effects in the effects loop. I have not been able to find a buffered Univibe type pedal. When I tried the same thing with a late 70's phase 45, it totally sucked the tone with the phaser bypassed. I'm concerned that this will happen if I put a non buffered pedal at the front of my pedal chain. Or, if I put the non buffered pedal along with my buffered overdrive in the loop of my Boss noise gate, will this eliminate the tone suck?
Hello.
Further talking about buffers, what kind of buffer is better in your opinion? Opamp or transistor based (like Klone vs Cornish type)?
Very important distinction that always needs to be made in this discussion is the vintage "Hardwire" bypass like a lot of MXR and Dunlop pedals. They are not true bypass nor are they buffered causing significant tone loss when disengaged. In reality a buffer is only really needed if you plan on using an unaltered clean sound while also having a large pedalboard, because as soon as even one pedal gets turned on that effectively works as the buffer, so there is no need for a stand alone buffer in many cases. The title is misleading in the fact that it simply states "Non-true bypass switching" when it should really say "buffered bypass switching." Non true bypass does NOT equal buffered bypass and vice versa. I only discovered this distinction earlier this year exploring why crybaby wahs suck so much tone. I had never heard anyone mention this in any video for any pedal demo or discussion since my pedal obsession started nearly a decade ago.
I have a question... Is it possible (or better to say harmless) to connect two (or more) boss pedals to ONE BOSS SWITCH (one small black switch that I removed from an old boss ds-1 I moded to be a true bypass) , so I can turn on two or more pedals at once... What I think to do is some wire extensions from any of my pedals to that switch so I can use it like a "master" switch, or simple to connect all switches with some parallel connection... Will that work?
Nice. Very clear explanation. Just one question: "How many non-true bypass pedals are too much? Meaning: if I just have one or two, will this tone-loss be perceivable?"
GF GF with one or two no, not likely.
I run 6 different pedals in my effect loop of my amp. 1 is the BOSS MT-2 Metal Zone. Then Twin Looper Pedal, a Moore Pre Amp Freidman Brown Eye, noise gate, and a delay. Then thru the front of my amp I run another 11 pedals. Starting with a Wah, then compression pedal them then running into my 1st overdrive pedal. Then I run thru a loop pedal that starts taking my BOSS Pedals and a couple other out of the direct path. This simple device does a great job of redirecting single chains or running more than one pedal at once with ability to turn them on or off at once. www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-Looper-Guitar-3Loop-Pedal-switch-Board-True-Bypass-Channel-Selection/113693362551?hash=item1a78a70977:g:EqEAAOSwgBNawteh
Interesting video! Analogmike about change boss pedals true bypass: "Also these pedals do not suck tone like a wah wah when off, as they use active electronic FET switching so it is not much of a benefit if any at all." BTW which are the good buffers?
But what If lets say a DS-1 or DS-2 has a buffer in it actually? Should that be used as a buffer in the beginning of the chain?
Hey Mr. Wampler! I would like to suggest a video about true bypass (mechanical bypass) and why the "click" noise happens and ways to prevent it! I mean threre's ton of information about "pop" noise on the internet (led current draw, pull down resistors and so on) but nearly nothing about the mechanical click that some 3pdt does and can be noticed specially with high gain pedals! Thanks!
So, what about a Boss pedal that has a toggle switch "BUF" and "THRU". The product page says "Buffer can be turned off for true-bypass operation"
For which pedal? Most of their pedals do not have that option.
@@wampler_pedals The one I have is the TU-3W Waza Tuner pedal. I don't know if any other Waza pedals have that?
@@wampler_pedals I just got a Boss TB-2W and this had this switch for "BUF" and "THRU" too. So, for both of my Boss pedals now I have this option..
Nice! I wasn’t aware of that, but it makes me happy that they offer that now 😊
Great stuff Bryan thumbs up!!
Thanks Brian great info, I believe I have done a bit of research and think I have things good on my board, but would like an opinion if you have a min to do so. my board starts with a TC tuner, twin city tone bone ABY switcher (buffer inside) and then through 7 true bypass pedals + an "American Loopers" loop switcher (5 channel). at the end I have a TC Bonafide buffer out to the "A" amp. The "B" amp is a direct run from the ABY switcher. I normally run 25 foot of cable on both ends of the board. Does this all sound like a sound approach. Is the TC buffer not needed (overkill)?
Confused! Since all boss pedal have buffers, with 15 pedals youd think the signal would be louder, with all the boost, than just the cable to amp?
A buffer isn’t the same as a boost, it’s not boosting the volume of the signal
One thing I can't figure out: is the buffer (like in boss or ibanez pedals) active and only works when the powered pedal is off or is it always on even when it's on?
It is effectively on while the pedal is on since the circuitry itself becomes the buffer. I went into slightly more detail in a separate comment below this video if you're curious.
I know this is an old video but I have a question. Is the big drop in the low end mostly due to the fact that all buffer circuits run through capacitors for biasing? Or do jfets actually have a non linear frequency response? If its just about the capacitors then would making them bigger reduce the low end loss? Also, is the volume loss just from cutting the low mud or is there also an overall volume change? If so, is it because many boss pedals have simple emitter-follower-ish buffers in front of the circuit (emitter follower usually has gain slightly below unity). Would that be fixed by using real unity gain op amps? Again I know this is an old video but I hope someone will read this and help me understand :)
Thank you!
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but you gotta watch out for some pedals, classic fuzzes in particular, that sound awful following any kind of buffer.
yeah, my fuzz factory sounds very bad, but they were made to work in front of the guitar (as you can see the big difference in tone when you reduce the volume, thus impedance).
Does the signal loss only happen when the pedals are off?
You can only compare it with the pedals off, because as soon as you turn on one of the pedals it'll change your signal so much that there'll be no comparison.
Which is why I think the issue is rather moot. Who has a bunch of buffered pedals that they leave off all the time? And even if they do, they could just boost the volume level a bit and get back to where they would have been with true bypass, assuming that's even an issue.
I see an ADA MP1 in the background. Are you going to make a video on that?
So if I’m understand right you will lose certain frequencies power with boss pedals but you can counteract it with boost/eq? I’m currently running 3 boss but I’m looking into adding another one or two
Does the same thing happen when the pedal is on? (Ignoring that there's an effect there too). Bummer that BOSS haven't started to add a "buffer/bypass" to their pedals so people can choose themselves.
Great video, Brian. Can you post the link to the site you were discussing? Thanks
www.muzique.com/lab/bypass.htm
dr. Gaál J. Krisztián Thanks!