Spyderco Paramilitary 2: Field Proven Quality

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  • Опубліковано 29 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 422

  • @jasong9502
    @jasong9502 5 років тому +82

    Lost my cousin today, gave his son one of my Para2’s to remember me by when I’m gone... like my cousin did for me long ago.

    • @Kingstonsmac
      @Kingstonsmac 5 років тому +1

      Sorry for the loss ! Keep your head up.

    • @russellroutt3448
      @russellroutt3448 5 років тому +8

      That is an awesome gesture on your part Jason G

    • @bananaassasin7514
      @bananaassasin7514 3 роки тому +1

      @@russellroutt3448 agreed

    • @bananaassasin7514
      @bananaassasin7514 3 роки тому +1

      Sorry for your loss

    • @BLACKOPS6391
      @BLACKOPS6391 3 роки тому +1

      dam rest in peace man, I wanna give my son and my family my blades before or after I die.. I gotta lot of CRKT's lol

  • @dustyroads3223
    @dustyroads3223 3 роки тому +3

    Best knife in My opinion for price, material, longevity use and durability. Plus all the variations to collect and community following. It's the Toyota of knife world.

  • @TheLateBoyScout
    @TheLateBoyScout  11 років тому +22

    Spyderco just built an excellent knife here.

  • @mathyszka
    @mathyszka 11 років тому +3

    Words cannot explain how much i love the PM2. It is by far my favorite blade.

  • @TheSchnozwanger
    @TheSchnozwanger 12 років тому +4

    Wow, Imagine that, somebody does a review of a knife after actually using it. What a concept.Thanks.

  • @wills.8662
    @wills.8662 Рік тому +2

    You got your wish finally this year a Military 2 is scheduled for release by Spyderco with four way positionable pocket clip and compression lock

  • @aznelite325
    @aznelite325 12 років тому +11

    i'm pretty impressed with its strength, i'm definitely putting this one up there with my next to-buy knives. great vid, keep it up!

  • @northmanscall
    @northmanscall Рік тому +2

    2013 Knife UA-cam was very comfortable

  • @allelopathetic
    @allelopathetic 7 років тому +11

    Got one last month! Thanks to your video. Quite expensive in Japan, but I'll use it pretty hard.
    Gotta be careful not to break it...I ordered Native5 yesterday:)
    Soldiers gotta have a knife in his pocket:)

  • @captainskippy6622
    @captainskippy6622 5 років тому

    Bought the same knife today. I have numerous Spydies but not a PM. Didn’t realize how much I would love this thing. It’s buttery smooth.

  • @abc456f
    @abc456f 5 років тому +2

    I like the pm2 but when I got my first manix 2, I prefer it. The grip just fits my hand perfectly. So impressed that I got three different versions. All black g10, s30v, burl g10 w/s90v, and carbon fiber with satin cruwear blade. Also have an xl which is a beast.

  • @AGC828
    @AGC828 Рік тому +1

    FINALLY a YT reviewer that noticed one minor gripe about the blade design...the nub at the base of the cutting edge that forms a "hilt"....possibly preventing a full closure. It would also affect shrpening at he base of the cutting edg near the "hilt"....present in some kitchen knife blade designs thus same problem in sharpening...forcing the ucer to use the "FWD half " of the cutting edge mostly. If Spderco could remove this "hilt/nub" for PM3, Para 4, Manix 3...etc.
    Other companies but a curve at the top of the grip to act as a hilt e.g. ZT.
    I'm sure some have grinded down the "hilt"....not hard to grind down if desired....if you have a "grinding wheel"....
    It's what's stopping me from picking up a PM2, Para 3, Manix 2.....etc. it's not on the Yojimbo, Spydiechef ...

  • @HonestOutlawReviews
    @HonestOutlawReviews 8 років тому +16

    looks awesome, love the endura 4 ill have to try it out

    • @packinaglock
      @packinaglock 5 років тому +1

      Hey it's Honest Outlaw, what's up buddy?

    • @tonyochoa7097
      @tonyochoa7097 3 роки тому +1

      If only the endura 4 had a compresion lock

  • @noonsight2010
    @noonsight2010 11 років тому +1

    This is pretty much the first review of a folder which actually shows practical usage. I had no idea of the potential of a folder before. Thanks for an interesting and informative review.

  • @stevenschneider3297
    @stevenschneider3297 7 років тому +1

    I just ordered mine from blade hq. Mainly for self defense, but it's great to have a well rounded knife that can perform. This review has me stoked!

  • @Grevlain
    @Grevlain 8 років тому +11

    Your vid just sold me on the PM2...I've been window shoppin' it for a while Time to order.

    • @BilgePump
      @BilgePump 8 років тому

      Grevlain; Spend your knife $$$ elsewhere.

    • @evshrug
      @evshrug 5 років тому

      Bilge Pump - WHY?

  • @danofiremano
    @danofiremano 8 років тому +3

    This just popped up in my re-watch videos and I gave it a like way back when it was put out and the actual hard use video too. Both were instrumental in my decision to buy the same model as you have here! I've had it for a few years now and it's one of my most carried & used EDC's, but still looks great.

  • @Algastar
    @Algastar 12 років тому

    I've had my PM2 for almost a year now and it is still my favorite EDC knife by far. I have a small collection of about 20 folders and this one just puts the rest of them to shame. Ever since I got this knife I've been trying to find something better in the same price range but I truly believe that this one is the best bang for the buck. I would recommend this knife to anyone willing to the spend the money on it.

  • @GreenHandMovies
    @GreenHandMovies 8 років тому +3

    Just bought one of these today. Where I work we sell this one and the black handled silver bladed paramilitary 2. I bought the one that's in this video.

  • @cheesuschrist7459
    @cheesuschrist7459 3 роки тому

    This is hands down the best review of this knife and I’ve watched tons of them

  • @TheStig000
    @TheStig000 12 років тому

    Just when I had gotten over my lust for the Paramilitary 2 you go and post this video? Damn it. Now I will have to buy it. When I get the money of course.

  • @MPerry-ox9qb
    @MPerry-ox9qb 5 років тому +2

    6 years later looking back it's gone up from around $100-$110 to $140-$150 for the entry level. Definately one of the most iconic edc knives. Side note: Ben from Bladehq looked 15 in the video.

  • @TheVAboss
    @TheVAboss 12 років тому

    Just picked one up and it is scarrry sharp. Definitely the sharpest knife out of the box I've ever had. also the smoothest knife out of box...ie no adjusting of pivot points etc.

  • @miccijrful
    @miccijrful 5 років тому

    Love mine!! Have had for several years and work it hard some days. Zero complaints!

  • @dfcvda
    @dfcvda 9 років тому

    just got mine and I am in love with it, I just dont put it down and flicking 24/7

  • @thibs8839
    @thibs8839 6 років тому +1

    Beautiful review brother! I've been looking at this knife for some time and I was always on the fence because of the price. I finally picked one up and I am extremely impressed. I could go on for days about this knife but you have already covered the bases. This is by far the best pocket knife I own "and I have a hefty collection" . I recommend it to anybody in the market for a hard use, incredibly reliable blade. The fact that you put this thing through tasks an ESEE 5 is meant to do is mind blowing but now that I've used it I don't underestimate its capabilities. Thanks and keep the videos flowing!

  • @Traderjoe
    @Traderjoe 11 років тому +2

    I ordered my 4th last night, it is such a great knife that I cannot believe it. I like extras in case something happens like one getting lost or whatever, I like the lock, like the handle shape, the pocket clip, the deployment and lock up and the build quality is superb. If you do not have one, I highly recommend it! I have mostly the S30V steel, but I have one out for modification to Randy of solosknifereviews who is modding a M390 steel version for me :) Great knife and video!

    • @Traderjoe
      @Traderjoe 11 років тому +1

      Ebay. I typed in "used paramilitary 2" and even though this is BNIB, for whatever reason, the guy had it listed under used and a very good price! Good luck!

  • @OtsesNdarB
    @OtsesNdarB 12 років тому +1

    Nice new intro scout! And great video! We need more knife reviewers like you, who show it in use, and actually prove it's worth. You persuaded me to buy this great peice of machinery!:D

  • @Widespread_love
    @Widespread_love 10 років тому

    I just got mine tonight and already love it!

  • @mlmcasual
    @mlmcasual 10 років тому

    I just got one of these.. Love it.. one thing to point out.. the tension lock is Right Handed only (for single handed use)

  • @bananaassasin7514
    @bananaassasin7514 3 роки тому +1

    I liked mine bit not for edc I prefer my benchmark bug out because of that sweet sweet axis lock

  • @thibs8839
    @thibs8839 7 років тому

    I love this review! I've been considering this knife for a while and this is the most in depth and helpful review I've seen. Wasn't too sure about the locking mechanism at first but now it seems very interesting. I also like the fact that you beat it up pretty good and it's basically the same as when you got it! Gotta love that spyderco build quality. Thanks for the great video and keep em coming!

  • @flinchfu
    @flinchfu 8 років тому +1

    Have had my eyes on Spyderco for years but never got around to owning one... I've done CRKT, Kersaw, Camillus, SOG, Benchmade... not too hot on SOG, but their high-end arclocks are amazing... anywho, I need to own a Spyderco... soon.

    • @flinchfu
      @flinchfu 8 років тому

      BTW, Snapon makes some damn good budget folders... They might carry them at your local automotive store.

    • @flinchfu
      @flinchfu 8 років тому

      +Flinch Fu Sorry Kershaw, Snapon has my loyalty over you now... Step it up.

  • @CommonCentsOutdoorsman
    @CommonCentsOutdoorsman 12 років тому

    Nice! Very right about blade centering. Who cares if it's off a little bit as long as it doesn't bind it's meaningless. It loosened up when you were out in the cold because well, it was cold. That is a clever locking system.

  • @santikilmister
    @santikilmister 2 роки тому

    We deserve a 10 years of use review of this knife

  • @selfhelp69
    @selfhelp69 8 років тому +3

    I have an old Seki-City aus-8 serrated Spyderco. I have sawed through wood , bone, plastic aluminum and tin cans have never sharpened it. I use it to do chores that would crumble cheap knives. Mind you this is a folding knife! It has outperformed many cheap fixed blades. If I was to spend over a c note for a folder it would be on a Spyderco.

  • @Bladereviews
    @Bladereviews 12 років тому

    Nice review Scout, man that DLC coating is tough as nails. The Para 2 is an awesome knife, I didn't have the balls to baton with it so I'm glad someone took the bullet for us. ;)

  • @TheDiamondback45
    @TheDiamondback45 12 років тому

    Great review scout! First one on the Para2 that explains the compression lock in detail. It was painful to watch you baton with it, but I'm kinda glad you did, so we can see how capable it is.

  • @jimh527
    @jimh527 7 років тому

    This is top shelf stuff.
    Use the right tool for the job.

  • @Mike-ul1xn
    @Mike-ul1xn 8 років тому

    I've never had a folder that felt so good in the hand. I just wish they made a version with a more robust blade tip. The fine point is ideal for everyday tasks, but I'm always weary of breaking it off. I'd love to have a more robust version available to keep in my bugout bag

  • @75JEG
    @75JEG 9 років тому

    Excellent review! Thank you. I'm about to buy this exact model for an EDC. Can't wait to receive it.

  • @snapcountsucks
    @snapcountsucks 11 років тому

    Just got a Centofante 3 today, this Knife rocks!
    I miss my Paramilitary since it grew legs.
    I hope the Vg10 is as easy to sharpen as the ATS55.
    I got my Paramilitary at the P.X.for less than cheap, please forgive, that was in 84.
    Bullet to the head effects my memory...
    Spyderco steel rules!

  • @idid1866
    @idid1866 6 років тому +1

    I don't fancy any linear locking similarities, but I still would rather have a Spyderco over any other folder! In duress, those thumb studs are gonna let you down! I watched a friend, fidget to deploy his (Benchmade) knife and got a bottle to the head! Many of the folders out there are just neat little toys, we play with, but when things get real...best to go with that thumb hole!

  • @benidefelice
    @benidefelice 10 років тому

    i watched this twice because i like this knife alot... im going to buy one monday

  • @r3drebel
    @r3drebel 10 років тому

    I own the military version, blade is 1" longer than paramilitary. Excellent blade, my first spyderco and ill definitely buy from them again.

  • @darkchild57
    @darkchild57 12 років тому +1

    My all time favorite Spyderco to date! Great review my friend. I own two of these myself.

  • @titusdrake9895
    @titusdrake9895 10 років тому

    Whenever a PM2 comes in stock on BladeHQ i buy one. Amazing knife

  • @Odood19
    @Odood19 10 років тому +3

    It looks great for EDC.

  • @ripperx444
    @ripperx444 10 років тому

    Just bought it black on black. I got the zero tolerance 550 but that blade was impossible to open one handed so after this review I got this one instead! Can't wait to test it out. The steel or the 550 is better but this is pretty solid as well

    • @ripperx444
      @ripperx444 7 років тому

      How do you sharpen this bladev

  • @joshrayburn5534
    @joshrayburn5534 8 років тому

    this is one of my dream knives

  • @jjugo112
    @jjugo112 11 років тому

    Agreed I have both and the PM2 is just an awesome knife

  • @ethandrake2492
    @ethandrake2492 10 років тому

    I have a Byrd wings generation two and I cut some firewood with it because my hatchet had broken the day before and the blade now rattles when locked it makes a click when I shake it the slightest bit and I had to have it professionally fixed. However, I am totally getting one of these, so durable.

  • @coalakida
    @coalakida 11 років тому

    Watched hundred reviews, and everyone failed to mention that indent on the locking mech , no wonder the knife never failed on you, very nice.

  • @santikilmister
    @santikilmister 12 років тому

    men this knife Rocks!
    i got one Para2 like you but in satin blade and i have ordered another one in "all black" (black g10 and blade)
    its perfect..

  • @MrGrant440
    @MrGrant440 9 років тому

    Great review. I'll be snagging one of these. Thanks for all your honest reviews.

  • @Algastar
    @Algastar 12 років тому

    By the way mine was a little bit off center when I got it but then I took it apart and put it back together and the centering was perfect and it has stayed that way since.

  • @inlikeflynt56
    @inlikeflynt56 11 років тому

    Was concerned about durability but that was quickly put to rest after watching the review.
    I immediately ordered one. BTW your reviews are excellent.
    Keep up the good work!

  • @vitdelrosario1
    @vitdelrosario1 10 років тому +8

    great, near perfect explanation about the compression lock over the liner lock. some reviewers and stupid people just dont get it

  • @scottengh1175
    @scottengh1175 4 роки тому

    Best review I have seen on this knife

  • @pauldayton5285
    @pauldayton5285 5 років тому

    I love Spyderco's & I think the paramilitary 2 is an amazing knife but for me it can't dethrone the king. The only knife that I think is better than the paramilitary 2 for EDC would be my MANIX 2XL S30V G10 BLK ON BLK !! The Manix 2xl has been my EDC for five years now & is by far my most favorite folder that I've ever had. I'm a lefty so the ball bearing lock is perfect for me. I don't have one derogatory thing to say about it.

  • @renechavez870
    @renechavez870 10 років тому

    I have OCDlike symptoms when it cones to centering... I own 2 paras, and both are very finicky when it comes to centering/blade play... It just cones down to adjusting it... Both of mine have been off center, but both are now smooth, and centered... Not blade fall smooth, but is rather have it a bit stiffer and centered, vs. Buttery and off center, my preference though. Great vid!! Yes you kicked some ass with your para vid! Huge fan!!

  • @lifelessperson1993
    @lifelessperson1993 10 років тому

    Cosmetics should be the least considered factor in buying but Glad to see the coating held up superbly to such abuse, gives me confidence that the normal use I'm gonna subject my PM2 won't damage the coating… Thanks TLBS!

  • @mjmonjure
    @mjmonjure 9 років тому

    Just got mine, had to slightly back off of the pivot screw and it works perfectly as advertised, even after my standard poodle decided to try it out as a chew toy and I later dropped it (deployed) on my hardwood floor. BTW, if you do mar the G10, it leaves white marks that stand out. I got these to "disappear" using one of those lubricants that you have to heat up first to get into a liquid state. Worked perfectly. Could not see the mars unless pointed out and even then had to look hard under a magnifying glass.

  • @MongoWongo777
    @MongoWongo777 12 років тому

    That is an excellent blade. EdgedWeapon88 did a review on one awhile ago and I was hooked. I have the same exact color config as you do. It is a BEAUTIFUL looking blade. I have not beat on my yet, but nice to know I can if i need to. I was really impressed with the torture test you put it through. Even more impressed how well the blade coating held up.
    Thanks and keep up the good work!!!

  • @rogeramu
    @rogeramu 11 років тому

    Thanks for the review - not really necessary after that field test, but still good. Had mine for a year now, and I think this is one of those knives that fits many roles. Love the weight of it - very light and compact for what it is. And the clip from a Stretch is right at home on it.
    A Military 2 - totally agree on your suggestions. That would be a most drool-worthy knife :)

  • @TheStig000
    @TheStig000 12 років тому

    I've got a lot of knives but I really should have more Spyderco knives! I've been eyeing the Delica 4 as well, but the Paramilitary 2 is just so cool. I think I'll get it first.

  • @JohnConnor12
    @JohnConnor12 10 років тому

    Appreciate the informative review! I plan on buying one of the S35VN versions soon. Just waiting to hear back from a dealer who has some on the way.

  • @adammcguinness9950
    @adammcguinness9950 3 роки тому

    I don’t know why people are so concerned about the tab hitting your finger. It takes 30 seconds maximum to get the hang of it. I love my compression lock Spydies.

  • @ap0lmc
    @ap0lmc 11 років тому

    My first quality folder and now I have more respect for it. To me an EDC standard for all others.

  • @alexoneal1029
    @alexoneal1029 9 років тому

    Good review Scout...really thinking about picking one of these up...glad to see that it can take some abuse and still function well...

  • @joshgoode8788
    @joshgoode8788 9 років тому

    Can you do a video on knife sharpening for beginners? I love knives but I'm too scared to sharpen them for fear of ruining the blade. Plus, you're my favorite youtuber for survival type videos, so I want to know how you do it and what you have to say.

  • @kevinh.5793
    @kevinh.5793 4 роки тому

    Man u got the best reviews bro!

  • @dimitripolitis5048
    @dimitripolitis5048 10 років тому

    I HAVE GOT TO GET THIS KNIFE like right now

  • @genoburgess6817
    @genoburgess6817 6 років тому

    I know this video is old , I'm buying one of these dannnnnng things

  • @903lew
    @903lew 12 років тому

    Very impressive. DLC is apparently the real McCoy, thanks for the video!

  • @Eldofarmboy
    @Eldofarmboy 7 років тому +1

    Love this knife. I have 3 of them

  • @rihsatqvert4561
    @rihsatqvert4561 4 роки тому

    PM2 and Amalgam 👍👍👍 Great review. Thanks!!

  • @krispybeats6615
    @krispybeats6615 4 роки тому +2

    This popped up...
    8 years ago wow
    (im new into knives) 🤣

  • @taddyboy2
    @taddyboy2 12 років тому

    Excellent review.. also very much enjoyed the video you did with KnifeHQ. Helped me greatly, thank you! :)

  • @alex86ajb05
    @alex86ajb05 10 років тому

    With all that heavy use and the way you said the lock works, is there play now with the blade and the lock in the notch? Or does the blade still have a tapered edge in the notch with that type of lock?

  • @tonyochoa7097
    @tonyochoa7097 3 роки тому

    The only complaint I have with the pm2,is the handle length to blade length ratio-it looks funny

  • @travissollars5931
    @travissollars5931 11 років тому

    The SOG Vulcan does not disappoint, it is on a whole other level than SOGs other knives. The Vulcan's lock is the most solid lock I've ever experienced, I've had mine for a long time and there is absolutely zero blade play whatsoever. Its an extremely well made knife. Look up the review, "The SOG that's better than SOG".

  • @tovsteh
    @tovsteh 9 років тому +16

    They should make a Spyderco Paraminitary

    • @sonambasar9450
      @sonambasar9450 9 років тому +2

      I think he's playing with the words paramilitary and mini in-turn asking for a smaller version of this knife maybe?

    • @tovsteh
      @tovsteh 9 років тому

      cory wallskog The PM3 has so far only been "confirmed" by shady Russian UA-cam videos, but not officially by Spyderco. And in these videos they are actually showing off the PM2/PM1 (facepalm)

    • @tovsteh
      @tovsteh 9 років тому

      cory wallskog Got a link? Would be very interested to see. When googling it nothing comes up, even on Spyderco's pages or the bladeforums, other than wish lists.

    • @tovsteh
      @tovsteh 9 років тому

      ***** Any idea of any specs/size/looks etc?

    • @tovsteh
      @tovsteh 9 років тому

      ***** Thanks mate. Any idea if they've done something similar for the Military?

  • @wynandkoegelenberg6834
    @wynandkoegelenberg6834 9 років тому

    Awesome review. But I would never do this to a folder. That is why one has a Becker BK7 or 9 and/or a Schrade and such. In my humble opinion, this is the best EDC folder ever (forget about the price point arguments). I initially hated it upon first sight; seeing it on UA-cam. It looked so unusual, so heavy, so cumbersome and just simply odd. But the favorable reviews just kept on coming. So I bought a new one on e-Bay. When I opened the box, snapped open the blade and held the knife in my hand, I was overwhelmed! The action is silky smooth, the locking "click" is aggressive and solid. It felt and sounded like a Sebenza. The blade size, cutting edge and clip point is impressive. It is super sharp and has no play. Also; the Micarta handles are super grippy, but not hard on the hand. In all of the reviews I watched, nobody ever mentioned on how light this knife feels. It fits into your hand like a glove in various holds; and the gimping in various holds is superb. Get one! You will not be disappointed. I cannot recommend this folder enough.

    • @mjmonjure
      @mjmonjure 9 років тому

      Not an expert here, but the handles are G10, you mentioned Micarta. Maybe they're cousins as plastics go, not sure.

  • @kevanglover792
    @kevanglover792 8 років тому

    Waiting on mine in the mail

  • @thelonerider5644
    @thelonerider5644 6 років тому

    I got the para3 first and love it, but i recently got the paramilitary 2, in no small part because of your review. love them both but am prefering the paramilitary2... mine is same but without blade coating

  • @tylerlee2833
    @tylerlee2833 5 років тому

    Excellent explanation on the locking mechanism. Great video. Thank you. New sub because of this video.

  • @1allspub
    @1allspub 12 років тому

    Great review and thanks for taking it out and thrashing it! :) Want one of these badly... hard as heck to find nowadays though... come on Spyderco, ramp up production! :)

  • @aznelite325
    @aznelite325 12 років тому

    just started the vid, love the new intro dude.

  • @dssin
    @dssin 10 років тому +122

    Spyderco Over Benchmade all day.

    • @VicariousReality7
      @VicariousReality7 10 років тому

      hahah

    • @10399alex
      @10399alex 10 років тому +2

      Nah.

    • @affinity3281
      @affinity3281 10 років тому +24

      Both really good knife makers.

    • @hivemind5137
      @hivemind5137 7 років тому +3

      Except for Spyderco being assholes and putting red loctite in their hardware 😂

    • @freshsteve509
      @freshsteve509 6 років тому +1

      I love both brands I have all the classics from both manufacturers. Benchmade is all American made and an unparalleled warranty. I used to be all spyderco but I’ve been converted ever since that first 940...

  • @TacticalXRays
    @TacticalXRays 12 років тому

    like the new intro - and don't ever change the grey jersey backdrop: that's so you
    awesome vids man

  • @TheLateBoyScout
    @TheLateBoyScout  11 років тому +1

    Congrats!

  • @Daninja42
    @Daninja42 12 років тому +1

    Good review my friend, really enjoyed it. I think the pm2 is a very strong and well thought out knife.

  • @Jeepjones85
    @Jeepjones85 12 років тому

    I've always liked that knife just never bought one lol but i'm about to after watching this video, Ive carried an endura around for a few years and I love it so i'm sure I'll like this one too

  • @gabrielgarcia8022
    @gabrielgarcia8022 12 років тому

    Getting one in the same color (which is the best looking in my opinion)

  • @thomassmyth65
    @thomassmyth65 12 років тому

    i miss my para2 is sold it (cf s90v version) to be able to buy new knives, your two part test/review has made me want to get another, im digging the digicamo black combo

  • @VskitzophraniaV
    @VskitzophraniaV 12 років тому

    Bought this knife from bladehq.com a couple months ago after seeing your knifehq video. I love it! Part of my edc

  • @vikingssoul
    @vikingssoul 11 років тому

    After a long time and use in my pocket my military was off center and was easily fixed by tightening the pivot slightly

  • @lionknives3
    @lionknives3 6 років тому

    Great video bra! I can feel your emotions about this knive! I like it!

  • @thegovernment0usa
    @thegovernment0usa 9 місяців тому

    Kevin Nealon's knife review channel is really taking off here