Hi Kevin, It is a delight to watch your podcast in youtube on the subject of The Widening of God’s mercy, a book by the Hays (father & son). I have not read this book but based on your comment in this podcast I have the following comments to add: 1. You mentioned that God changed His mind several times in the Bible and the particular instant you referred to is the aftermath of the gold calf incident in the wandering of the Israelites in the desert when God vowed to destroy the nation of Israel and after which He relented at Moses’ intercession pleading which is a form of repentance on behalf of the Israelites he represented. It must be reminded that the unchanging character of God is found almost all over the entire Bible both in the Old Testament (OT) and New testament (NT) and to give you a few of these citations Hebrews 13:8, Numbers 23:19, 2 Timothy 2:13, 1 Samuel 15:29 and many others. Therefore it is wrong for you to say that God have changed His mind for in the attribute of God He never changes His mind. In fact, if your remember, after this incident all the first generation of Exodus perished in the desert except for Caleb and Joshua who have been spared because of their obedience (Deut 28:1-14) You also cited the book of Jonah in which God spared the calamity to befall Nineveh because of their repentance and we understood that God will listen to genuine repentance and will restore blessing to those who repent (2 Chron 7:14; Jer 15:19). All in all it must be understood that in the grand plan of God’s redemptive history under His sovereign rule from His infinite mind, all that have been revealed in the Bible are part of His grand plan of which we often fail to contemplate or understand with our finite minds. One other thing we need to bear in mind is that there existed progressive revelation of God’s redemptive plan from the OT times to NT and these do not constitute the changing of God’s mind or that God have relaxed His decrees to accommodate to the changing trend or need of society. 2. On the issue you raised that a lot of the churches nowadays have accepted same sex couples. As of my biblical knowledge on this subject the church should accept these same sex couple as persons but at the same time should not condone their same sex motive and practice, biblically such act is clearly prohibited in the teaching of the Bible. We need to be very careful in dealing with similar social problems which in the present time have been widely accepted and legalized as a result of consistent lobbying by the concerned groups in society but that do not implied that acceptance in the legal aspect would likewise be acceptable from the perspective of God and quite on the contrary they often are not like the legalization of same sex marriage, euthanasia and etc. Upon this I would like to share with you a famous citation from AW Tozer on this issue:
When Fish Catch the Fisherman “History shows clearly enough that true spirituality has never at any time been the possession of the masses. In any given period since the fall of the human race, only a few persons ever discerned the right way or walked in God's law. God's truth has never been popular. Wherever Christianity becomes popular, it is not on its way to die--it has already died. Popular Judaism slew the prophets and crucified Christ. Popular Christianity killed the Reformers, jailed the Quakers and drove John Wesley into the streets. When it comes to religion, the crowds are always wrong. At any time there are a few who see, and the rest are blinded. To stand by the truth of God against the current religious vogue is always unpopular and may be downright dangerous. The historic church, while she was a hated minority group, had a moral power that made her terrible to evil and invincible before her foes. When the Roman masses, without change of heart, were made Christian by baptism, Christianity gained popularity and lost her spiritual glow. From there she went on to adopt the ways of Rome and to follow her pagan religions. The fish caught the fisherman, and what started out to be the conversion of Rome became finally the conversion of the church. From that ignominious captivity, the church has never been fully delivered. “ It is clear from this citation that Christianity does not purport to be popular or to make any effort to be suitable or align with the trend of society. We can do this if and only if we do not compromise biblical principles for our authority lie with the words of God (the Bible) and not the need or trend of society. Jesus had clearly said in His earthly ministry that, “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (Jn 15:18-19 ESV).
Yes, God has never changed though he is ever mercy pending our repentance. We can’t say what nowadays the changes in the church is of God. Ironically say that this is our lies to compromise to the public and/or sins within the so called Christian.
@@winnieleung128 It is therefore important and crucial that Christians should at all times adhere to the teaching of the Bible and not to be swayed by the trending of society and to take God's grace for granted or to yield to the demand of the media . One example of this is to look at the story of Eric Liddell who refused to run the Olympic of his favourite event for his own country on the Lord's day but to preach in the church and was considered by the media as a traitor betraying his own country.
@@Homerho315 I think the word of God lead us into salvation not liberation and there is a big difference between liberation and salvation for the former is from man and the latter can only be from God for salvation at all times is in God's hand not in anyway ours and that is why we often say that justification by faith and salvation by the grace of God and the definition of grace is that we are given something of which we are totally underserving .
Richard B. Hays passed away on 3 January 2025 www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/died-richard-b-hays-scholar-moral-vision-new-testament-scripture-narrative-sexual-ethics/
謝謝劉進圖先生主持分享，確實令人(尤其是基徒)有所思❤
多謝劉先生的介紹，值得信徒深思熟慮！
多謝劉先生分享。
Thanks for sharing. ❤
我的教會正在討論LGBTQ議題，你的分享非常合時。我會和長老及牧師商量，推薦他們閱讀參考。
Hi Kevin,
It is a delight to watch your podcast in youtube on the subject of The Widening of God’s mercy, a book by the Hays (father & son). I have not read this book but based on your comment in this podcast I have the following comments to add:
1. You mentioned that God changed His mind several times in the Bible and the particular instant you referred to is the aftermath of the gold calf incident in the wandering of the Israelites in the desert when God vowed to destroy the nation of Israel and after which He relented at Moses’ intercession pleading which is a form of repentance on behalf of the Israelites he represented. It must be reminded that the unchanging character of God is found almost all over the entire Bible both in the Old Testament (OT) and New testament (NT) and to give you a few of these citations Hebrews 13:8, Numbers 23:19, 2 Timothy 2:13, 1 Samuel 15:29 and many others.
Therefore it is wrong for you to say that God have changed His mind for in the attribute of God He never changes His mind. In fact, if your remember, after this incident all the first generation of Exodus perished in the desert except for Caleb and Joshua who have been spared because of their obedience (Deut 28:1-14)
You also cited the book of Jonah in which God spared the calamity to befall Nineveh because of their repentance and we understood that God will listen to genuine repentance and will restore blessing to those who repent (2 Chron 7:14; Jer 15:19).
All in all it must be understood that in the grand plan of God’s redemptive history under His sovereign rule from His infinite mind, all that have been revealed in the Bible are part of His grand plan of which we often fail to contemplate or understand with our finite minds.
One other thing we need to bear in mind is that there existed progressive revelation of God’s redemptive plan from the OT times to NT and these do not constitute the changing of God’s mind or that God have relaxed His decrees to accommodate to the changing trend or need of society.
2. On the issue you raised that a lot of the churches nowadays have accepted same sex couples. As of my biblical knowledge on this subject the church should accept these same sex couple as persons but at the same time should not condone their same sex motive and practice, biblically such act is clearly prohibited in the teaching of the Bible. We need to be very careful in dealing with similar social problems which in the present time have been widely accepted and legalized as a result of consistent lobbying by the concerned groups in society but that do not implied that acceptance in the legal aspect would likewise be acceptable from the perspective of God and quite on the contrary they often are not like the legalization of same sex marriage, euthanasia and etc. Upon this I would like to share with you a famous citation from AW Tozer on this issue:
When Fish Catch the Fisherman
“History shows clearly enough that true spirituality has never at any time been the possession of the masses. In any given period since the fall of the human race, only a few persons ever discerned the right way or walked in God's law. God's truth has never been popular. Wherever Christianity becomes popular, it is not on its way to die--it has already died. Popular Judaism slew the prophets and crucified Christ. Popular Christianity killed the Reformers, jailed the Quakers and drove John Wesley into the streets. When it comes to religion, the crowds are always wrong. At any time there are a few who see, and the rest are blinded. To stand by the truth of God against the current religious vogue is always unpopular and may be downright dangerous. The historic church, while she was a hated minority group, had a moral power that made her terrible to evil and invincible before her foes. When the Roman masses, without change of heart, were made Christian by baptism, Christianity gained popularity and lost her spiritual glow. From there she went on to adopt the ways of Rome and to follow her pagan religions. The fish caught the fisherman, and what started out to be the conversion of Rome became finally the conversion of the church. From that ignominious captivity, the church has never been fully delivered. “
It is clear from this citation that Christianity does not purport to be popular or to make any effort to be suitable or align with the trend of society. We can do this if and only if we do not compromise biblical principles for our authority lie with the words of God (the Bible) and not the need or trend of society. Jesus had clearly said in His earthly ministry that, “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (Jn 15:18-19 ESV).
Yes, God has never changed though he is ever mercy pending our repentance. We can’t say what nowadays the changes in the church is of God. Ironically say that this is our lies to compromise to the public and/or sins within the so called Christian.
@@winnieleung128 It is therefore important and crucial that Christians should at all times adhere to the teaching of the Bible and not to be swayed by the trending of society and to take God's grace for granted or to yield to the demand of the media . One example of this is to look at the story of Eric Liddell who refused to run the Olympic of his favourite event for his own country on the Lord's day but to preach in the church and was considered by the media as a traitor betraying his own country.
問題的核心是神的話語/吩咐會否因應或遷就時代文化的處境而發出，抑或是絕對不可更攻的要求；究竟在上帝裏什麼才是真正的不變？我相信是祂的愛和信實！愛是三一的本質，恩典之根，而信實則是實現救贖應許的本源，上帝不能背乎自己。而上帝的話語豈非最終叫人得解放/釋放（Liberation)、自由與和平/和睦呢！？
此外，耶穌基督的救恩是在人還作罪人的時候已經決定為人而作，甚至，上帝在創世之前已預備救贖的恩典，最終讓人完全更新創造！
寬恕、救贖和新創造全是三一上帝的恩典，絕不是人能越疽代疱，指點江山，只有留待他朝上帝的審判，别忘記審判的結果視乎人怎樣對待有需要的他者，就是群眾中毫不起眼、最小的一個（太25:45-46）！
@@Homerho315 I think the word of God lead us into salvation not liberation and there is a big difference between liberation and salvation for the former is from man and the latter can only be from God for salvation at all times is in God's hand not in anyway ours and that is why we often say that justification by faith and salvation by the grace of God and the definition of grace is that we are given something of which we are totally underserving .
Trust that we should be careful about God’s mercy vs acceptance. Don’t be confused. Very important that God has never changed.
一派胡言
只要心意更新而變化，察驗何謂神的意旨。書都未睇，就一派胡言？
沒有在他人的想法和議題上提出反對的見解和理由，便說一派胡言，究竟胡言在哪兒？誰才是真的在胡言亂語？
Richard B. Hays passed away on 3 January 2025
www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/died-richard-b-hays-scholar-moral-vision-new-testament-scripture-narrative-sexual-ethics/