Stannis' pragmatism is unmatched: "You are dead men, understand that. Only the manner of your dying remains to be determined. You would be well advised not to waste my time with denials. Confess, and you shall have the same swift end that the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard. Lie, and you will burn. Choose."
@@Serryy I mean he's a great character but an awful human. He burns people alive for being loyal to their gods while insisting loyalty is paramount. I find it easy to see him as a villain, though one of the best ever written for sure.
@@BDnevernind He burned traitors. Who did he burn only for following their gods? Florent was a traitor,he was gonna die anyway. The wildlings who refused to convert to yhe lord of light were allowed back on the other side of the wall. Mance was a deserter(i know hes not dead). And the two guys who were burned in Ashas chapter in DWD were cannibals.
George does a great job of making characters we love, and then killing them off. I just didn't expect him to do the same thing with an entire book series.
I'll go further than saying Barristan and Tyrion's chapters would've worked well at the end of Dance - they should probably have been condensed into fewer chapters, for the sake of saving some page space and some time for GRRM. I've got a soft spot for Victarion's chapter in particular - I love listening to the video of George reading it, he does a great job.
@@dylanperrone6769He’a been here all night. Please help, he won’t leave. He swore he was just here to drop off a present and now he’s napping on the sofa, help. Nah, we love ya G man. The Community sh**posts on my YT always brighten my day.
Casting Pilou Asbaek and ruining Euron's character was one of the biggest fck ups of the show. What's worse is that now when I read his chapters, I can't help but imagine Pilou Asbaek's creep face !😅🤮
The Starks having a running theme of identity issues and no longer being who they truly are (Arya, Jon, Sansa, even the Pseduo-Stark Theon) is really interesting for a house who have the ability to skinchange, and literally send their spirit into and become someone else (Bran and Hodor) And I think this idea of the Starks literally changing their identity and becoming someone else will play into the narrative for the story moving forward
It’s so funny you say that because I was messaging a friend about my reread and something I noticed which is that the only starks who have retained their identity are the ones who still have wolves (Jon and Bran mostly, but I’ll assume Rickon, we just haven’t heard from him in a while). Sansa and Arya both lost their wolves and also both lost their identities as starks. Interesting interesting
This parallel between their stories is super intriguing, and yet also worries me (in a good way) because they seem to all have some clear paths to villainy laid out before them. Not saying they're all going to choose evil, but I suspect there will be much narrative about avoiding (or failing to avoid) the temptation to do increasingly terrible things as their powers and abilities grow.
When Damphair realizes that all of Euron’s stories are true and he’s in a full suit of Valyrian armor is one of the most haunting moments in the entire series. We callin’ Cthulhu with this one bois! 🗣️🔈💥
I think Jeyne will definitely miss Jon at the wall. I like the idea that she’ll bump into the real Arya in Braavos and Arya learning Jon was killed from her. Could be a catalyst for Arya to go back to Westeros.
My theory is that the watch won't know what to do with Jon's body after killing him, so they'll just dump it in the ice cells (the ice cells are brought up a TON in Jon's final chapter and my spidey sense tells me that isn't coincidence). We have Jon's "sister" coming to the Wall, who could well be convinced to burn Jon's body, leading to a fire magic resurrection. I'm probably wrong, but that's my best theory at the moment.
George himself said that it’s much more intresting exploring how characters interpret religion and gods, rather than if said gods were powerfull or real
Oh ABSOLUTELY! There are some series where answering those questions work well with the story, but in asoiaf’s sake, the mystery of it is what makes it so compelling. And like you said, various characters reactions to religion. I will eventually do a religion video essay I think, when I know more
I wouldn't exactly say Tywin inspired loyalty, people followed his orders but as soon as he could no longer threaten and bully people into doing what he wanted they left him before he was even cold, meanwhile men still die for Ned even when he's cold in his grave.
Tywin inspired loyalty mainly to his own bannermen, I am convinced some westerlanders follow him not because they fear the fate of Raynes and Tarbeks, but because it is socially accepted in this political system to be loyal to your liege more than to your king.
Totally get the show argument. I will maintain that the first four seasons are some of the finest television ever produced. That said, they do dial up the carnage quite a bit AND they really downplay the fantasy elements (which REALLY make the show suffer at the end) Also, one of the show’s BIGGEST problems is how it handles assault. Women are written as if SA makes them “tougher” and male victims are played off as a laugh so many times. Both sentiments are equally cringeworthy. It’s not that noticeable in the early seasons, but HOLY HELL in the later seasons as characters become more and more cardboard-cut outs of themselves, it’s like every other line. A lot of “my trauma is worse than yours therefore I win.” You can see that David and Dan really forgot what makes aSoIaF so compelling in the first place.
I don't really think they downplay the fantasy elements, I see it the other way around. A lot of fantasy is only implied in the books but then actually shown in the series.
@@DrZaius3141 Glass Candles, Victorian’s Arm, a possible explanation for Bran’s powers, several characters being stripped of warging powers (Jon, Arya, Varamyr Sixskins) Quaithe in Dany’s Dreams, possibly Euron in Dany’s dreams, The Hag that recites the prophecies to Arya, Patchface, I could go on and on and on.
@@DrZaius3141We went from all the Stark kids being wargs to only Bran being able to do so, Lady Stoneheart is gone, Bran's visions are limited, Dany's time in Qarth was changed for some reason, the Children were reduced eith nothing of their culture mentioned, the three eyed raven was just a dude in a tree hanging out, etc
I'd say they never understood what makes ASOIAF compelling. Just look at how callous any of their own content was anytime they chose or were forced to create something original - obviously the last four seasons are their lowest point in that regard, but Roz comes to mind as both their best and worst work of the early seasons. She was a brilliant addition, briefly, until she became a sexual stereotype, and then.... Giving Joffrey a woman to sexually torture to death was a harbinger of how D&D would go on to fetishize violence in a way that has nothing to to with the core themes of ASOIAF. Violence became the point of the story, rather than violence being a rogue element that **might upend the careful balance a character is trying to achieve in a given moment. They thought that bloodshed and sex were the only reasons people watched, so they put all their eggs in those baskets when they wrote original material. It became so self-indulgent that the levels of thoughtless violence were one of many elements that started contradicting the established logic of the world they had managed to build in previous seasons. And speaking specifically of violence against women, there seemed to be a real focus on it. It was used as a way not only for a female character to grow from the abuse, like you said, but committing an act of violence against a female character seemed to often be about the **perpetrator's development, further objectifying the victims. As examples, there is Myranda hunting Ramsay's women, Theon watching Sansa's wedding night, Cersei torturing Margaery by proxy, Stannis burning Shireen, that poor little girl in the Braavosi brothel - I could go on, but Season 5 provides plenty of examples on its own.
I love how you talked about people’s loyalty to Ned after his death. I think that’s a huge point of the story too and my favorite example is those northern tribesman who decide to join Stannis’ march on Winterfell during a blizzard simply to rescue Ned’s little girl.
@@johanwestin3030one last hurrah. Apparently the North have a tradition of the older men going out for hunting, war campaigns, etc during winter, with the intent of never coming back.
@@Bookborn I am sure - a part of this competition is - that Euron in the show is - lets say "special". If you watch the "finger in the ..." clip you probably understand why everyone wants everyone to know that he is evil and serious. Thats more a reflex now for people who watched the show and love the books.
I loved the Arya chapter so much, when I realized what was happened and when Raf said "You'll have to carry me" got chills as well as a huge smile on my face.
George really be making things come full circle (which is why I’m not in the camp that he’s lost it in dance - if we ever see winds o think it’ll be paced more like asos)
count me in the camp of just glad kyle is sending you the best clips! I'm also enjoying everyone discussing the best show scenes in the comments. it's low-key making me wanna rewatch the first season or 2. (along with my current GoT/ CoK reread that your last video inspired 😅)
I've really enjoyed witnessing your journey through these novels, and I'm sad for both of us that you have reached the end. Thank you for the amazing videos! As far as the question of whether Jon is dead, my favored theory is that he's going to parallel, not Catelyn, but *Bran*. When Bran was pushed from the tower, there was very much a "Is he alive or dead?" then "Will he live or die?" tension for a few chapters, and we saw hints that he was only hanging onto life through his magical connection to his wolf. There's that quote from a Tyrion chapter about how it seems that when the window is closed to shut out the wolves' howling he weakens. Pretty much everyone theorizes that Jon's "resurrection" will in some way involve Ghost, but I think it's going to involve Jon's warg-link to Ghost magically keeping him just barely alive. And then, just as Bran had visions while in his coma that led to him ultimately making the choice to return to the world of the living, I think Jon will experience a similar moment of choice and choose to keep living, though, like Bran, changed.
Oohh intersting. I can definitely see this. I think if Jon is going to come back it SHOULD be changed, because death should always have a consequence - we saw it with Catelyn, we saw it with Bran (who didn't die obvi but came very very close)
I can see Jon/Ghost ranging for miles. Thinking it over in a wolfish way. Eventually going back to the Wall and Jon's body. Undead Jon will be wolfish. Expect his table manners to go to the seven hells.
"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless." The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead - " " - you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt." "We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his Warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt." - Stannis Baratheon It still gives me chills when I think about how Stannis the Mannis is going to crush the Boltons and Freys and free Winterfell giving it back to the Starks then use the North as a launchpad to liberate the Riverlands! ALL HAIL STANNIS BARATHEON! THE ONE TRUE KING OF WESTEROS! AND THE KING IN THE NORTH!!!
@@Bookborn I really want Tommen to live :( he is literally the most innocent cinnamon bun in ASOIAF and he loves cats! I hope he doesn't die and gets to rule at Casterly Rock
What I love about the show is that the show gives smaller characters in the books more opportunity to shine and actually turns them into my favorite characters. I wouldn't call Tywin a small character of course but the show elevates him even more and he is in my opinion the best written character in the show. And Charles Dance plays him to perfection. The way they introduce his character in the show is absolutely magnificent. Also Margaery. A character that is more in the background in the books. She gets way more screentime in the show and she's one of my favorites. Also Littlefinger and Varys have some of the best dialogue and conversations. Since we don't get any chapters from their point of view in the books we don't get to see their conversations when their alone and it's just incredible. Personally I absolutely love Littlefinger but the show is a big reason for that. Robb as well. We don't have his point of view in the books but in the show he's far more prominent and we understand him even more since we don't just see him from Catelyn's point of view. Which makes the red wedding even more heartbreaking in my opinion. Also there's a scene between Cersei and Robert Baratheon in the first season that is just insanely well written. It gives both characters so much more depth and shines a more complex light on their realtionship. It also makes you feel for Cersei because you realize that she went with certain hopes into their marriage but she never stood a chance against Lyanna Stark, the woman Robert truly loved. In the first four seasons - the best seasons and some of the best televison I have ever seen - the show just excels at writing additional scenes we don't get to see in the book and giving the characters more depth. Which is why I would absolutely recommend it.
The scene between Robert and Cersei was nice but it would have never worked in the books. They made Cersei less of a narcissist and more loving when she never goes that far. She immediately stopped any thought of caring or love for Robert after their first night, and certainly after he started assaulting her repeatedly and blamed it on alcohol when she confronted him about it. Then add the mention where he almost killed Joffrey and knocked his baby teeth out, yeah she despised him 100%.
I can't say this enough. Bookborn, that you have enjoyed/are enjoying your ASOIAF experience - brings me so much happiness. I *APPLAUD* your self-awareness, having read the books many times and watched (and for the first few seasons RE-watched) the show, I think you've made the right decision. The books ask the readers to make a large number of logical leaps, e.g. Theon's first chapter after the Winterfell debacle. We discover him *after* a large portion of time, and his inner monologue gives us enough to understand the extent of what Ramsay has put him through - we don't experience that WITH him. The show gave us a lot of screen time during that process, and STILL didn't make clear quite how broken Theon has become. As for scenes of a sexual nature, there's a reason why GoT coined 'sexposition'. Scenes that were uncomfortable to read for one reason or another, became either horrific or beautiful depending on how the showrunners wanted viewers to see any given relationship. In my (readers) eyes I thought by doing that they cheapened what those involved learned through their more nuanced interactions. Hooray for @Read by Kyle, I love that he's made sure you see some of the moments the show gave us that WERE amazing and Brienne being knighted is 100% one of the very best. Two of my show favourite scenes weren't in the books, purely due to GRRM's writing each pov separately. Kyle may have already showed you - Robert Baratheon and Cersei discussing a potential Dothraki invasion and their marriage and Petyr and Varys 'out-spying' each other in front of the throne, simply delicious acting from all involved. I love your videos on ASOIAF - and have no problem AT ALL watching more! ❤
PoorQuentyn, the guy who wrote the essay from which the comment quoted, is a legend. He predicted Eurons eldritch apocalypse plan before The Forsaken was read out by GRRM.
Also check out his reread podcast, Not-A-Cast, which is incredible. They're currently in the final stretch of chapters of Storm and have a new episode every 2 weeks.
GRRM has repeatedly praised The Scouring of the Shire and it's my current headcanon that Euron is going to be the Saruman to the Others' Sauron that many of our heroes will have to fight after defeating the Others. Also, GRRM has stated repeatedly that he hates characters getting resurected and being unchanged by it. Jon is 100% going to be impacted by his resurrection, and I would speculate from the time his consciousness spends inside Ghost. He'll be more wolf-ish, however you choose to interpret that.
We have seen how dying and resurrecting have affected Beric and Stoneheart. Even if Jon is only changed as much as the former not the latter he very much will have become a different character. (I like the idea/theory that we won't get any Jon chapters after this (or maybe just one, likely titled "Ghost"). We do have Mel there as a POV up in the Wall to resurrect Jon and then witness his actions.)
Kyle has been sending me clips - I've seen 4/5 and it's been fantastic. They are great scenes and have helped me visualize some stuff, but as they are handpicked, they don't ruin anything lmaooo
@@Bookborn Someday I'd like to make a video or write an essay about how Shakespeare's historical plays influenced GRRM. You really see it in season 1 with how Robert Baratheon is portrayed. (The actor is amazing.) He's a character who was once Prince Hal/Henry V and he turns into Falstaff.
Show clips I think you would enjoy: 1) Jaime telling Brienne about killing Aerys (S03E05) 2) Oberyn telling Tyrion he will be his champion (S04E07) 3) Catelyn talking to Talisa (the show's Jeyne Westerling) about Jon Snow (S03E02) 4) Tywin denying Tyrion Casterly Rock (S03E01) 5) Tyrion's speech during his trial (S04E06)
Lol, I think people kinda missed the point of the Forsaken chapter if they only hyped it up because of the violence :D I don't want to give any theories away that you might discover on your reread, but this chapter is so full of symbolism, hidden meanings and foreshadowing that it kind of baffles me that people are only talking about Euron's evilness. It's pretty much on the same level as the chapters about the House of the Undying :D
Yeah she missed the point of the forsaken chapter. Or the people who told her about it gave her the wrong things to look for. But easily the most important chapter to the series as a whole
My personal view of Stannis is that he lowkey gives the vibes of someone on the autistic spectrum. As you reread the series, pay attention to how he is in social situations, how he has trouble expressing and understanding his own emotions, and how he has trouble understanding more emotionally driven characters. Even his own goal to sit the iron throne doesn’t come so much from a lust for power, as much as a belief in the only thing he truly understands, the structure of the country. As a person on the spectrum he always stood out as a kind of relatable character in that way, and it makes him a little bit more tragic when you view him that way. It’s why he is so confused that the storm lords sided with Renly instead of him. He IS the rightful king,(compared to Renly atleast) but people just don’t get along with him, and he can’t understand why that matters at all. Just my view of things, but an interesting one I think. Loved the video as always!
Oh man I love this take actually. I think of the scenes where he obsesses over renlys peach (or apple? Can’t remember lol). He def has a disconnect in understanding social situations and he can be so one track and black and white about things
@@Bookborn yes exactly! The peach scene is one of my favorites in the whole series for this reason and I relate to it so much. When you view Stannis through this light I feel like his character really shines. Can’t wait for your thoughts on him post reread!
@@ElderVault The peach scene is actually really important in understanding Stannis. I always viewed it that he was so rigid that he couldn't understand someone taking such enjoyment in something as meaningless (to Stannis's perspective) as a peach. I never likened his lack of flexibility and understanding of emotions to ASD, but it certainly seems plausible.
Lovely video yet again! Your discussion on religion in the series is something I'd look forward to hearing more of - there is a great thematic thrust through Aeron's chapters where you can see glimpses of George's lapsed catholicism influencing his writing and direction as he explores what faith means to Aeron. Its hard to understate how big a deal in the community the Forsaken was when George read it in 2016. For years there had been arguments about what the entire point of the greyjoy plot had been in AFFC and it was not really anyone's favourite set of chapters. But with the Forsaken you see glimpses of some of the horror that Euron will bring to the south through Aeron's visions, and the mask is ripped off in terms of his ambitions which are much grander than even just the iron throne. There's lots of fun theories to dive into from this chapter and a re-read of the Aeron and Victarion chapters from Feast as well. Poorquentyn has some very interesting analysis of the themes and point of this plotline and what I think are pretty likely predictions for what could happen in winds. But what makes the Forsaken is how grounded in character is, as Aeron's faith is tested by his abuser/tormentor, and after some of the worst horror in the series Aeron at the end comes through his crucible and for just about the first time offers comfort to someone else - poor Falia Flowers as they prepare to meet their end. It's the most important thing for me in George's writing, not the fun/wacky theories that people have spent nearly thirty years thinking up.
Idk why I remember these parts but the last line of the Alayne chapter reminds me of the last line of Arya’s chapter in Harrenhal when she becomes Roose’s cupbearer: “ You may not. It is promised to...another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.” “The bear is all in black, Arya thought. Like Yoren. She filled Roose Bolton’s cup, and did not spill a drop.” It’s the newfound confidence! It makes me so excited because not soon after that Arya gets the fuck out of there, which makes me think Sansa’s “stand up to Littlefinger” moment is coming and I’m SO READY.
When I read that bit in the Alaynne chapter - I believe it's towards the end - where one guy (sorry, remembering names from the published books is enough for me^^) says to her how smart she is I couldn't help but smile. Her whole life people called her stupid, vapid and treated her as such.
I love the way that Stannis is kinda positioned as the fallback main character in the war of five kings, like there's no way not to like him eventually because everyone else keeps dying. Ned, Robb, Jon. He's our only hope 😢
Agree with you completely. I feel like one of the prevailing themes is how Ned and Tywin's death juxtaposes one another with the legacy they leave and loyalty that is left behind - when Ned dies, he still has loyalty 4 books later of men rallying together to save who they believe is his daughter, because he inspired loyalty out of compassion and honour and genuine leadership. And while the Stark children all struggle, the Stark legacy endures with many still fighting for their name. Tywin meanwhile, inspired loyalty through fear and intimidation, he was purely about power, so as soon as he dies a lot of that loyalty vanishes and doesnt extend to Cersei or the other Lannisters. Tywins own brand of strength ended up doing the most harm to the thing he was so obsessed with maintaining - the family name and legacy. And I think thats a very powerful thematic punch that Martin is super successful in getting across, of the type of person worth following.
Eddard Stark is the sort of a man who is a protector to his vassals. A man who sits and eats with mountain clans, listens to everyone, hears his people's complaints, makes his killing with his own hand. A man who went through a lot, brought down a dynasty bested the storied Arthur Dayne(?), and marched the Northerners against Greyjoys, to topple down the castle of Pyke Wheras Tywin Lannister is a machievellian dreadlord, that forces respect from people. Tywin thinks the might of his family is his legacy. And lays the foundations of his family's ruin with his actions he thought were wise . Men like Tywin, inspire people so long as they can enforce that inspiration. When they're gone, the memory of their might aren't remembered that kindly. That is why Tywin is also obsessed with his family's image, why he despises Tyrion, why he ruined both Jaime and Cersei's lives
That bit about the gods is interesting. There are a couple instances of people praying to The Seven and actually getting their favor. Ser Duncan repeatedly gets blessed by them, sometimes he gets help from an actual smith, sometimes the smallfolk bless him in the name of the Seven and he always seems to get lucky in his fights. Sansa prays that "a hero comes and chops the head of Janos Slynt", Jon ends up doing just that. Cait prays a lot and while she meets a tragic end, her children (except Robb) end up surviving. I don't remember other instances of this happening but it seems like The Seven kind of have power just not in overt ways like the Old Gods or The Red God.
I’m going to look for it on my reread, but the question is are those blessings from the gods or are they coincidences that people associate with the gods they believe in? I don’t have an answer to that, it’s just something I was thinking about during preview chapters
George makes the "gods" pretty alien. And as shown through Weirwood scenes etc., the gods are not working through time in a linear fashion. They can, perhaps, tweak the past so that an event happens in the present in a seemingly natural fashion.
The best example of the Seven possibly maybe being real is Davos being stranded in the middle of nowhere after Blackwater, praying and shortly afterwards getting rescued by Stannis loyalists. Its very unlikely. But since the Seven are resembling christianity the closest, I think its a pretty good call to keep their existence ambiguous. They might be real, they might not.
@@SerryyI agree, it's a way to explain how some religions have power and others appear to not, but really the Seven could just be less showy and obvious. Like the signs are there but can be easily missed.
the way I clicked LIGHTNING FAST! The way I consumed the booked after Storm of Swords was via the audiobook, and since Roy Dotrice has since passed away and I'm a voice actor breaking into the audible market I've been coping recently by using the winds chapters for audiobook practice. The Forsaken is my favourite one but I also REALLY love the Theon one and the Sansa one - they're both hinting at some serious planning and I'm DYING to know how those plot lines play out. Also, I am VERY convinced that Jon is going to be changed the way Stoneheart is - I think because wargs live on in their animals when they die, that Jon is currently living in Ghost, and when he is brought back he will be more wolf-ish.
Hi. I want to narrate as a hobby. Can you give me some starting practice ideas ? I'm guessing just record books and analyze them ? Should I upload on YT for feedback ? Thanks
Thank you for reading the sample chapters!! I love hearing your reviews and thoughts and really thought your ADWD review would be the end! As for Jenye meeting Jon, I strongly suspect Jon might stay dead for a while.. we saw with Beric Dondarrion’s monologue in ASOS (beautiful monologue btw) that he’s forgetten the woman he was married, what his castle looked like ect. If Jon stays dead and forgets certain things.. like how Arya looks.. and suddenly FArya turns up at the wall, it’s tragic to think he might think Jeyne really is his sister. I know George loves his ironies and if there comes a point where Sansa meets up with these two, Jon’s world might be shattered even more, who knows! Also Stannis sending Justin Massay on a quest to fetch 20,000 sellswords left me particularly wondering where Justin’s story will take them.. we know things never go as planned so wondering if that’ll tie into Real Arya!
Hopefully fire and blood next! I really loved fire and blood, i've read it several times, and it's a much better and more beautiful read than I was expecting at first. I find it lends scope and scale to the world and to asoiaf in a way I didn't expect was possible
It is my next book...after I finish AGOT reread haha! I know I should've done Fire and Blood first but I just reallllyyy wanted to read the first book again knowing what I know now. But then F&B after.
Jon WILL be changed in TWOW, I’d bet literally anything on it. That’s all I had to say, once again, glad to have you on this side of the journey. Enjoy the wait, I’ll continue to enjoy your content.
"Even a priest may doubt. Even a prophet may know terror. Aeron Damphair reached within himself for his god and discovered only silence. As a thousand voices shouted out his brother's name, all he could hear was the scream of a rusted iron hinge." hits very differently after The Forsaken. Since you mentioned rereading the books, the character that felt most elevated by a reread to me was Stannis. Cressen's prologue, for example, changes a lot when you know Melisandre see threats against her person in the flames, and likely told Stannis. On a re-read, the core of Stannis felt like someone that, more than anything, wants to set things right. His talks with Davos are to me some of the more memorable sections of the books, as we get to hear the doubts and regrets and see vulnerability of a man that normally is described as being like iron. Melisandre and Davos being the metaphorical devil and angel on his shoulders, he's a just man in an unjust world that has both been given and set himself an almost unsurmountable task. (That is, Melisandre is not evil, her chapter made it clear she doesn't have nefarious intentions, but rather she's the "end justifies the means" to Davos' "what is one boy against a kingdom? everything.") He's an underdog that refuses to stay down, that villains and schemers throughout the books end up at one point or another fearing. And the only claimant that remembers that King includes the title "protector of the realm." A line from Sam's chapter really resonated with me the second time through, thought there are many other fantastic quotes. "Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared."
I would love more videos on themes, characters, what you personally love, or feel the most affected by in the series. Very excited by what you will have to say upon reread!!! 🦋 🧊 🌬
One thing I found interesting was that Stannis wanted one of his knights to escort the banker and Jayne Poole back to Bravos. I hope we get a scene where Arya in one of her guises gets to meet her imposter self/ childhood tormentor. At the same time I can see Martin giving us a so close, but no type of scene.
It would be a super interesting scene, assuming she realizes that Jeyne is supposed to be her. I'm also wondering if there would be any sort of realization that her childhood "tormentor" was nothing - she'd probably have a lot of affection for Jeyne after what Arya has been through at this point and the real horrors she's seen.
@@Bookborn Theon told her that she had to keep pretending to be Jayne, or else no one would see any value in her. Her escorts would have no reason to hide the fact that "Arya Stark" had arrived in Bravos. The question remains of what will be the state of Arya when she arrives. Even "if" she arrives. So many ships have been lost in the autumn storms.
I’m so glad you reviewed ASOIAF. I love this channel and discovered it from your AGoT review. Re: Jon’s death. Someone may have already shared this with you, but the prevailing theory is that Jon will have a second life in Ghost. In the prologue of ADwD, Varamyr’s internal monologue reveals skinchangers can live a second life in their animal. Jon seems to be instinctively aware of this possibility when he wonders if any of Bran and Rickon remain in their dire wolves. Jon’s last word is “Ghost.” Also, Melisandre has a vision of him being a man, then a wolf, then a man again. Upon a re-read, people have noticed Rob’s last word is “Grey Wind.” So Rob probably died twice. 😢
I absolutely devoured Alt Shift X’s videos on ASOIAF after finishing the books. His videos are an amazing resource to recap on theories and character studies, as well as Westeros’ history so I would totally recommend checking them out on your re-read if you haven’t already. And Alt Schwift X and Glidus’ theory live streams are hilarious too but they are very long. I’ve really loved all your reviews, and it’s been great to see you fall in love with the ASOIAF in real time. Although I think the show is great up until the book’s end, (around season 4 / 5) I completely understand you not watching the full show. It’s can be quite graphic and gory, so I think checking out clips for the stuff you’re interested in is totally the best thing for you. It’s honestly not worth grossing you out or making you feel uncomfortable.
I agree Jon does need to return to life changed like Stoneheart It’s speculated within the fandom Jons skinchanging spirit might be residing in Ghost until they sacrifice Ghost to bring back Jon, sending both Jon and Ghosts spirits back to Jon’s body Making a wolf man Jon Snow with white hair and red eyes to look like Ghost, potentially in reference to the Michael Moorcock character Elric of Melniboné
Jon's spirit is alive in Ghost. The prologue chapter clearly describes that a warg lives on in one of their animals after they die. That chapter also explicitly states that Jon is a warg. And Jon's last word is "Ghost". There is definitely some important consequence of Jon dying and being resurrected though. It may simply be that people will worship him as a god going forward.
It will entrench the wildling support and elevate it to reverence, but I'm skeptical about what the Queen's Men will do in response. They hate his politics, but what will they do when their precious flames appear to resurrect him?
I really enjoy watching how you gradually dip deeper and deeper into this series. About the TV show, as you already know, you're not missing much. Watching the show after reading the books would be like crunching on a dry, cheep Doritos right after you had a juicy piece of lemon cake.
On the topic of Jon's (probable) resurrection, I think he for sure will be changed. No character in the books are the same after resurrection, from Catelyn to Berric to Patchface. What i often think about is how Jon and Arya will feel about each other whenever they reunite. Jon will be a war hardened zombie / Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and Arya will be a revenge driven assassin trained by a death cult. Far from the innocent children they were when they left each other. I hope we get to see this in Winds 🥲
The purpose of the prologue in Dance was to explain how Jon can come back without being (significantly) changed. His soul didn't die, only his body. Bar the trauma and perhaps a greater influence from Ghost, he'll be the same person.
@@davidjones272 The prologue in Dance is Varamyr Sixskins, right? Can you elaborate on that? (spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book) From memory I recall that Varamyr escapes the battle with help from a Wilding woman, and then he tries to skin change into her but she basically mutilates herself to stop him. Then he (or both of them?) are killed by white walkers and Varamyr skin changes into his wolf. Are you saying Varamyr is the same within his wolf? Or is it some other part of the chapter I'm not remembering?
The forsaken is the confirmation of Euron as the big main villain, and his intentions to become an eldritch god and unleash the apocalypse. Will you read The World of Ice and Fire, and Fire & Blood?
I think you've already found the best compromise in watching only select clips from the show. There are certain scenes that are well made and fantastically acted, definitely worth watching; but overall, I don't think the show serves much purpose if one really enjoys the books. The show got me into the books, and I'm grateful for that, but I have no need to rewatch it as a whole. I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on "The Forsaken", but not for any Ramsey vs Euron competition. I just find the tone of the chapter absolutely amazing. The first line "It was always midnight in the belly of the beast" does such a remarkable job setting this dark, oppressive, dangerous atmosphere, so devoid of hope. I also love how it unfurled Aeron's character for me. Seeing his trauma laid out made me understand him a lot better; how his whole life has been about trying to escape that trauma, one way or another, without ever being allowed to process it properly. Before this chapter, I thought of Aeron as someone who had truly been "Theon's fun party uncle" until a near death experience made him a religious fanatic. Now to me it seems that who he was before was another fascade, or an attempt at being someone he wasn't truly. I love the parallels with Mellisandre, who has her own traumatic past of being a slave. Both find comfort in their faith to the point of zealotry, both put their hopes on another (Stannis/Victarion) to save them/their people/the world, and both are in for having their faith challenged. Both have a very damaged psyche and sense of self-worth, willing to be matyrs, but unwilling to question their faith. I used to hate Aeron chapters, wanting to skip them, but "The Forsaken" changed my mind on them. You mentioned themes of leaving behind one's self with Arya and Jon, and I think that's very true for more or less all the Starklings. Sansa pretending to be Alayne and getting dragged into Baelish schemes, but thinking "I am not your daughter", "I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell", and holding on to many of the values she was taught growing up despite the influences of cynical people like Baelish, Cersei and the Hound. Jon wanting Winterfell, but refusing it to stay loyal to his Night's Watch vow; only to then abandoning his vow to attempt to save Arya and go after Ramsey, as well as aiding Stannis. Bran having to become a green seer, becoming part of some collective godhood of sorts it seems; but he keeps coming back to Winterfell through the trees, talking to Theon, seeing his father, seeing young Lyanna and Benjen. He wants home, not to be a tree god. And Arya, trying to leave behind the girl who was hurt over and over to become No One, to escape the past and to become someone with the skills to protect herself. Only she cannot give up Needle, because Needle is home. Presumably we will learn what became of Rickon on Skagos. But it does seem like all the Starklings have a similar core to the story, involving their identity as a Stark. Winterfell is home. The Starks are family. Ned and Cat taught them good values they try to hold on to despite most of them going down dark and dangerous paths that challenge those values. My hope is that they all manage to turn around from those paths, to return to home and family and love and honour, even if they all do so changed and marked by their journeys. I think Jon dying might mean he will spend time in Ghost having a "second life", and I think it's possible that will bring about quite a change in him. Maybe he will poetically become more "wolf-blooded", as some Starks (Brandon, Lyanna) tend to be, as we have seen in both Jon and Arya to some extend already. I don't think it will be some magical transformation of character just because he spends time in a wolf, but rather come about because Jon would be spending time in the more emotional state of an animal, all while full of anger at being "betrayed" by this Night's Watch brothers. We know Catelyn and Beric came back focused on what mattered most in their moment of dying. Beric only died briefly, Catelyn far longer. I don't know what it would mean, if Jon spent a long time dead, but inside Ghost. But I do think he might come back darker, angrier and more vengeful, with a focus on retaking Winterfell, killing Ramsey, and finding his baby sister.
I understand not watching the show but I do think you’re missing out. Seasons 1 to season 4 are imo the greatest tv ever made. They could’ve ended it at the season 4 finale and I don’t think anything would compare.
If I may make a suggestion, my sister is exactly like u in that she absolutely does not do well with graphic portrayals of anything, violence, sex, assaults, etc. And she’s also perfectly fine with just the book versions in her head, but I suggested watching the series on an app named VidAngel where u can edit out before every episode all these things to a very minute detail. She gave the first few episodes a try using & doing this and fell absolutely in love with the show, as much as she loved the books! She said watching the show actually added more depth to a lot of the characters she already loved from reading the books beforehand. And the parts that the VidAngel application made sure got removed she said didn’t affect the viewing experience at all cause since she had read the books already she knew what had happened and was glad she didn’t have to watch it and yet also wasn’t lost in the storyline by it having gotten cut by the filter app. Just a suggestion, cause if u can do this, watching the series really will imho greatly enhance ur entire ASOIAF experience.
You are absolutely right about the show. The world depiction is first rate, yes there is GRAPHIC violence which hits harder on the visual channel, even though it is actually less dark than the books, like there is no Lady Stone Heart in the show and Euron is JOKY instead of EEEEEville.. When you read, the screen editor is your imagination and or your inner self protective censor.
It has been a lot of fun watching you go through ASOIAF and seeing your thoughts and opinions on it! I absolutely agree about how great GRRM is at recontextualising events we have already witnessed but from a different perspective, like with how Arianna reflects on Dany's plot both in mind and while speaking to the Golden Company. I think a lot of GRRM's inherent pragmatism and perspective based judgement was heavily inspired by Glen Cook's Black Company, but GRRM turned it up to 11 with Song. Now you're with the rest of us waiting for Winds lol. Welcome.
I think you would love the different analysis the fandom has come up with throughout the years. Not theories looking into the future which can end up being too much of speculation, but analysis of past events and how they are connected. The Grand Northern Conspiracy, The Grand Maester Conspiracy and stuff like that. Also there’s so many good factible theories that are so amazing like The Night Lamp for Stannis battle, Red Wedding 2.0, how can Jon actually resurrect. Welcome to the waiting room I guess!
I totally understand your opinion on not watching the show, but I actually would be interested in your reaction to House of the Dragon. Especially after you read Fire & Blood. It's a very different adaptation of a very different styled book, not everything works, but I think it makes some interesting decisions. Also, even if you're not watching either show, I definitely recommend listening to Ramin Djawadi's music for them, it is absolutely divine
I just realized that Bookborn has a strange similar appearance to Jeyne Poole, other than Theon, nobody else has it as bad as Jeyne Poole who is violated and abused so viciously and brutally by Ramsey Snow! Those chapters of Jeyne being put through Hell gave me PTSD, and she's only 13 years old! WTF!!!
Wow, I completely missed the switch from Misery to Arya until you mentioned it. I tip my cap! And I completely agree with you on Stannis, it surprised me just how much I find myself rooting for him; especially considering how absolutely certain I am he will be the first real casualty to the White Walkers. And it would be so George to give Stannis the big win at Winterfell and really feel like he's building serious momentum...and then the Winds of Winter arrive at Winterfell.
Echoing some other comments here that the Forsaken changed my view of Euron. Initially I was skeptical of claims about him and leaned towards him being a charlatan, however after the Forsaken, I’m convinced he’s the real deal. He is clearly planning a massive, horrific blood sacrifice outside of Oldtown in an attempt to become a god - what kind of magical power he’ll get from this remains to be seen. Poorquentyn has done some excellent writing on this that I recommend you check out.
I've been rereading this series over and over for something like 20 yrs as new books come out, and I'm still finding new things to love in it! It's hand in hand with Lord of The Rings and Terry Pratchett's best books for me.
Arya is being sent to Westeros, but she is being told she's a bad FM, but that is just hazing. They want her to go - likely to kill somebody at KL. but She can't let go of her real self, she will meet Nymeria, they will tear up the mercenary bands and likely run into LSH, who might be willing to die if she knows at least one or two of her kids have survived.
Completely agree about the Mereen chapters! I wish grrm had included them in aDwD.. I'm sure this has been said before, but I really feel like Stannis and his forces being trapped in a blizzard is a great metaphor for readers' situation over the past decade plus 😢 Edit : And the decision to avoid the show is 100% the best one. For the reasons you mention, but also because the drop in quality from s4 to 5 is perhaps the most jarring ive ever experienced! If you haven't tried it, The World of Ice and Fire is really worth getting. Aside from the beautiful illustrations, its just an incredible treasure trove of lore and background to the main story.
I very much would second the recommendation for AWOIAF as well. I don't know how you are with world books/series companions Bookborn, but as someone who really likes the type I would consider a World of Ice and Fire a very well executed example of it.
I'm a book fan and I've watched the entire show and I'm telling you, you are not missing anything. The praise the show gets is well deserved don't get me wrong, but all the points you laid out are exactly why I'm convinced you would not enjoy the show in any case. I *would* still recommend House of the Dragon simply because of the way Fire and Blood is written - it's very vague and presents a lot of conflicting accounts, and is brief in its description of events the way that history books in real life are, so the show really is something special when it comes to expanding on that, and as a book fan I think they did a phenomenal job, hardly making any of the mistakes Game of Thrones did. However... while it is much less graphic and isn't gratuitous (especially concerning SA like GoT was SO weird about graphic sexual violence, thankfully HotD is not really like that) it DOES have graphic scenes pertaining to childbirth so I can't whole-heartedly recommend it to the faint of heart. I do hope you get to see clips from it though, because they are really doing something great with HotD!
I came back to your channel after seeing your conversation with the goat, Preston Jacobs. Had to pause that video and come here, because I realised I hadn’t kept up to date with your ASOIAF journey. I have now watched all your videos on it, subscribed obvs, and will now be going back to Preston's chat. I really enjoy your take on the books, and if you are (still) interested in them, I think you would enjoy the RadioWesteros podcasts. Even for somebody who had done many re-reads, their videos/podcasts are very useful to have all the tiny bits of information condensed in one clearly presented video. I found them very useful before jumping into theories. And of course, if you really want to join the fandom, Preston, Quinn the GM, Glidus and AltShiftX are fabulous channels. From Preston Jacobs I particularly enjoy the Night’s Watch videos and A Frey in the Snow. Also, if you get around to Fire and Blood, Joe Magician has some stellar theory videos. After having typed all that wall of text, I realised that you're probably not even into watching youtubers dissect the most obscure hints in 5000 pages of text 😅 If you're not, just disregard. Mkay, bye! ❤
*You simply must add David Lucifer Means Lightbringer and Quinn of Quinn's Ideas and Robert of In Deep Geek and Company of the Cat!* Meera Reads is a blast, too!
Hey @Bookborn If you aren't watching the show, I would at least check the conversation between Robert and Cercei from the first season. It's really well acted and it adds to their characters.
The good news is that even if Winds doesn't come out these books are dense enough that you'll be noticing new details and learning new things about the world for the next decade, there's so much going on in every scene in these books, the journey's far from over.
I won't hold out for you watching the show like I'm holding out for Merphy to watch Cowboy Bebop but I hope you've seen some of the show only scenes that add a different layer of characterization. My all time favorite being Catelyn telling a story about a sick child. Followed by Robert and Cersei talking about their marriage. But then there's also the masterful scene between Theon and Luwin.
Some scenes in the show are very good and not on the books (Added or inspired by Martin himself. Even some might be better in the show than in the books.
some dialogues are worth watching, for example, tywin explaining Jamie why the lion doesn't concern the opinion of the sheeps. or Tyrion trial. or john talking to maester aemon about love and duty. or dany speaking the first time to the unsoiled and burning the slave master. basically just watch season 1 to 4 if you must. after that, don't bother, everything decays quickly.
Oh, and if you're not watching the show (which is a fine choice btw! Watching clips is a good way to go because there are some powerful ones. Look up Cersei and Littlefinger talking about power) all that's left is to watch Alt Shit X's hour longer Tyrion video. It's such good analysis and I think you'd really like it!
@7:51 absolutely. While you're going through F+B or after I'd recommend Preston Jacobs's series "Overanalyzing House of the Dragon" where he nitpicks the hell out of how F+B tells the Dance
I saw it on a comment you replied on the last video that you have a pretty good grasp about the BIG REVEAL of Winds of Winter (and I would say George's main plot twist of the series). Would love to see you comment on it :) Would also love to see your takes on how you think the story will move from now on :)
11:25 Thats interesting. For me its the exact opposite: I can just look away from the screen, but if my brain conjures a scene, that scene is going to live rent-free in my head, like it or not
Sansa is at last getting to be a regular teenager - at least a little. How long until she decides to undermine LF? I think it will be when she figures out that he is killing Sweetrobin with dreamwine, he's an obnoxious kid but I think she will find killing him to be wrong, and she'll expose him. One way or another she will out fox him because of his creepy uncle crush on her, the student will exceed the instructor!
On loyalty_ Tywin and Jamie treat their soldiers and other brothers in arms decently, and they get some loyalty that way. Tyrion acts like money should buy him loyalty and turns into a real nasty piece of work when it does not. Now he's coping with being a nobody with only his wits, he might figure it out. We'll see. Cersei of course just treats people like poop more and more as he goes madder and more paranoid, so she gets less and less loyalty as time goes by.
I don't know how aware you are with fan theories and all. But one thing I just love about this book series, that it has this layered, ambigious storytelling with so much layer and subtext, it's like book version of Baldur's Gate 3. You just want to read, and then read again. Been about 5 years since I last read this series fully, I'm about to restart the Clash of Kings, I am convinced that Martin's unparallelled at making you want to learn what's going on next Also, the insane dualism in this universe is way better structured than most people appaciate
I don't think you'd like the GOT show, but after you finish Fire and Blood I would recommend House of the Dragon, the sex scenes have an intimacy coordinator and a female directed the most sexually themed episode, which is only 1 out of 10 mind you. There's still violence, but it feels less lingered on? Not just for shock value I guess? Definitely talk to those who know you best if they've seen it, but the illicit material is handled much better in my opinion.
I want to read F&B first but if I watch anything it would be HoD! People I trust think I’d enjoy it (and say I wouldn’t enjoy the main tv show) so it’s def a possibility for me
@@Bookborn It is really such an ideal way to do an adaptation. Take something that is essentially an unreliable plot outline and flesh it out with richly layered and conflicted characters. Highly recommend if you can figure out a plan for the tougher (but narratively appropriate) scenes it does have.
You should add the GRRM written sections of the World of Ice and Fire to your list! Especially the story over the Rather of Castemere. You'll understand where Tywin's loyalty was truly born.
I just watched the “being a UA-camr” video you did months ago for the first time. Sad to see those people who write to you that way. Just supporting you and you’re creative endeavors.
Euron's chapter I think strikes a chord with people because it confirms the whole Eldritch Apocalypse theory written by PoorQuentyn. It is also a confirmation the Euron is the final villain of the story, becoming stronger because of all the death that has been happening due to the War of Five Kings. He's using those deaths to fuel his own magic, it seems. His goal is apotheosis.
Random fact about the Mercy chapter, it was intended to be the first Arya chapter after A Storm of Swords back when George had made a 5 year time skip between Storm and Feast. It's a super super old chapter.
Keep the ASOIAF content coming. It's so nice to hear from someone with a fresh experience of the story. I hope you review Preston Jacobs Winds of Winter fanfiction chapters.
I believe Jon will be different upon his resurrection. Yes, he didn't change at all in the show, but George has said numerous times that his characters who come back from death will be changed. Coming back from death would absolutely change a person, and George has made that very clear. I really hope we get to see George's ending!
I do think its interesting how well they set up Myranda Royce in the books, because she is definitely trying to get info on Alayne and Little Finger for her father. Sansa has made it pretty clear she's from the north already when meeting Myranda they talk about a new high septon and a new commander of the wall sansa react to jon instead of the high sparrow even though she was supposed to have been raised in the faith, not to mention the Royce's found Lysa bodie and one of Sansa shoe fell through the moon door so could have a real Cinderella moment
Stannis' pragmatism is unmatched:
"You are dead men, understand that. Only the manner of your dying remains to be determined. You would be well advised not to waste my time with denials. Confess, and you shall have the same swift end that the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard. Lie, and you will burn. Choose."
I will never understand how one cant love this guy.
That quote was SOOO GOOD (and my favorite of the preview chapters!)
@@Serryy I mean he's a great character but an awful human. He burns people alive for being loyal to their gods while insisting loyalty is paramount. I find it easy to see him as a villain, though one of the best ever written for sure.
@@BDnevernind He burned traitors.
Who did he burn only for following their gods?
Florent was a traitor,he was gonna die anyway.
The wildlings who refused to convert to yhe lord of light were allowed back on the other side of the wall.
Mance was a deserter(i know hes not dead).
And the two guys who were burned in Ashas chapter in DWD were cannibals.
@@BDnevernind"Half my army are made up of unbelievers.I will have no burnings.
Pray harder!"
George does a great job of making characters we love, and then killing them off.
I just didn't expect him to do the same thing with an entire book series.
Lmao this is brutal
jfc hahah
Facts.
Oof that hurt. I pray you're wrong but.....
💔💔💔💔
I'll go further than saying Barristan and Tyrion's chapters would've worked well at the end of Dance - they should probably have been condensed into fewer chapters, for the sake of saving some page space and some time for GRRM. I've got a soft spot for Victarion's chapter in particular - I love listening to the video of George reading it, he does a great job.
My boy Quinn in the comments!
@@dylanperrone6769He’a been here all night. Please help, he won’t leave. He swore he was just here to drop off a present and now he’s napping on the sofa, help.
Nah, we love ya G man. The Community sh**posts on my YT always brighten my day.
Yooo Quinn moment
Quinn Cameo let's goooo
Whats up quinn
The Foresaken chapter changed my perception of Euron as one of the baddies to THE bad guy.
Yeah I mean he certainly is on another level
Casting Pilou Asbaek and ruining Euron's character was one of the biggest fck ups of the show. What's worse is that now when I read his chapters, I can't help but imagine Pilou Asbaek's creep face !😅🤮
@anoushkas8726 I sincerely think Pilou could have cooked if the writers gave him better material, his initial scene on the bridge screamed book Euron
I'm on Feast right now, but I do know some things. From what I've heard, Euron is probably gonna be my favorite character.
The Starks having a running theme of identity issues and no longer being who they truly are (Arya, Jon, Sansa, even the Pseduo-Stark Theon) is really interesting for a house who have the ability to skinchange, and literally send their spirit into and become someone else (Bran and Hodor)
And I think this idea of the Starks literally changing their identity and becoming someone else will play into the narrative for the story moving forward
It’s so funny you say that because I was messaging a friend about my reread and something I noticed which is that the only starks who have retained their identity are the ones who still have wolves (Jon and Bran mostly, but I’ll assume Rickon, we just haven’t heard from him in a while). Sansa and Arya both lost their wolves and also both lost their identities as starks. Interesting interesting
@@Bookbornthey’re wolves and forgetting that is a mistake 😭
This parallel between their stories is super intriguing, and yet also worries me (in a good way) because they seem to all have some clear paths to villainy laid out before them. Not saying they're all going to choose evil, but I suspect there will be much narrative about avoiding (or failing to avoid) the temptation to do increasingly terrible things as their powers and abilities grow.
I also think ned fits in as well because he comes across as having a bit of impostor syndrome from his brother.
This is especially true in Dragons which was a dance of identities from top to bottom. Great insight!
When Damphair realizes that all of Euron’s stories are true and he’s in a full suit of Valyrian armor is one of the most haunting moments in the entire series.
We callin’ Cthulhu with this one bois! 🗣️🔈💥
Yeah it’s def a very haunting chapter
Yup. I can't explain the terror I feel when I think of Euron. Just pure horror😮
George is so good!
👾 😳😦😧😨😱🤯🤪
I think Jeyne will definitely miss Jon at the wall. I like the idea that she’ll bump into the real Arya in Braavos and Arya learning Jon was killed from her. Could be a catalyst for Arya to go back to Westeros.
Ooh bumping into the real arya would be interesting - but would she even recognize her!
My theory is that the watch won't know what to do with Jon's body after killing him, so they'll just dump it in the ice cells (the ice cells are brought up a TON in Jon's final chapter and my spidey sense tells me that isn't coincidence). We have Jon's "sister" coming to the Wall, who could well be convinced to burn Jon's body, leading to a fire magic resurrection. I'm probably wrong, but that's my best theory at the moment.
@@sammcclure1553 could be if jon is secret targ like the show
Jon was “killed” with a huge asterisk
@@nont18411 Watch out! It's a punctuation attack!
George himself said that it’s much more intresting exploring how characters interpret religion and gods, rather than if said gods were powerfull or real
Oh ABSOLUTELY! There are some series where answering those questions work well with the story, but in asoiaf’s sake, the mystery of it is what makes it so compelling. And like you said, various characters reactions to religion. I will eventually do a religion video essay I think, when I know more
I wouldn't exactly say Tywin inspired loyalty, people followed his orders but as soon as he could no longer threaten and bully people into doing what he wanted they left him before he was even cold, meanwhile men still die for Ned even when he's cold in his grave.
I would say he did inspire some genuine loyalty in the West (I mean, there is also Pycelle the #1 Tywin Lannister simp)
That’s why I said it was complicated, but u do think Tywin legit inspired loyalty! Not nearly as well as Ned obviously but people did respect him.
Tywin inspired loyalty mainly to his own bannermen, I am convinced some westerlanders follow him not because they fear the fate of Raynes and Tarbeks, but because it is socially accepted in this political system to be loyal to your liege more than to your king.
@@gokbay3057 Pycelle is not Tywin’s simp. He’s a classic sycophant who will bootlick whoever’s in power to keep himself safe.
Totally get the show argument. I will maintain that the first four seasons are some of the finest television ever produced.
That said, they do dial up the carnage quite a bit AND they really downplay the fantasy elements (which REALLY make the show suffer at the end)
Also, one of the show’s BIGGEST problems is how it handles assault. Women are written as if SA makes them “tougher” and male victims are played off as a laugh so many times. Both sentiments are equally cringeworthy.
It’s not that noticeable in the early seasons, but HOLY HELL in the later seasons as characters become more and more cardboard-cut outs of themselves, it’s like every other line.
A lot of “my trauma is worse than yours therefore I win.”
You can see that David and Dan really forgot what makes aSoIaF so compelling in the first place.
Absolutely agree with this take. I never recommend the show because the last 3 or 4 seasons ruin it immensely.
I don't really think they downplay the fantasy elements, I see it the other way around. A lot of fantasy is only implied in the books but then actually shown in the series.
@@DrZaius3141 Glass Candles, Victorian’s Arm, a possible explanation for Bran’s powers, several characters being stripped of warging powers (Jon, Arya, Varamyr Sixskins) Quaithe in Dany’s Dreams, possibly Euron in Dany’s dreams, The Hag that recites the prophecies to Arya, Patchface, I could go on and on and on.
@@DrZaius3141We went from all the Stark kids being wargs to only Bran being able to do so, Lady Stoneheart is gone, Bran's visions are limited, Dany's time in Qarth was changed for some reason, the Children were reduced eith nothing of their culture mentioned, the three eyed raven was just a dude in a tree hanging out, etc
I'd say they never understood what makes ASOIAF compelling. Just look at how callous any of their own content was anytime they chose or were forced to create something original - obviously the last four seasons are their lowest point in that regard, but Roz comes to mind as both their best and worst work of the early seasons. She was a brilliant addition, briefly, until she became a sexual stereotype, and then.... Giving Joffrey a woman to sexually torture to death was a harbinger of how D&D would go on to fetishize violence in a way that has nothing to to with the core themes of ASOIAF.
Violence became the point of the story, rather than violence being a rogue element that **might upend the careful balance a character is trying to achieve in a given moment. They thought that bloodshed and sex were the only reasons people watched, so they put all their eggs in those baskets when they wrote original material. It became so self-indulgent that the levels of thoughtless violence were one of many elements that started contradicting the established logic of the world they had managed to build in previous seasons.
And speaking specifically of violence against women, there seemed to be a real focus on it. It was used as a way not only for a female character to grow from the abuse, like you said, but committing an act of violence against a female character seemed to often be about the **perpetrator's development, further objectifying the victims. As examples, there is Myranda hunting Ramsay's women, Theon watching Sansa's wedding night, Cersei torturing Margaery by proxy, Stannis burning Shireen, that poor little girl in the Braavosi brothel - I could go on, but Season 5 provides plenty of examples on its own.
I love how you talked about people’s loyalty to Ned after his death. I think that’s a huge point of the story too and my favorite example is those northern tribesman who decide to join Stannis’ march on Winterfell during a blizzard simply to rescue Ned’s little girl.
Yes!! This will for sure be a video essay - loyalty in the series and particularly why the starks (through ned) were able to inspire so much of it.
@@Bookborn Sweet! I’ll be looking forward to it, you have really good insight for the series, especially for only reading it once.
Getting the old gang together for one last job.
@@johanwestin3030one last hurrah. Apparently the North have a tradition of the older men going out for hunting, war campaigns, etc during winter, with the intent of never coming back.
Listening to George reading The Forsaken is one of the best things any fan can do while waiting for Winds. Such a haunting experience.
Ohh, I read them all - maybe I'll go redo that chapter with him reading it!
@@Bookborn did you
OMG I didn't expect that video to come out, at least not that quick, I'm so exciteeeedddd
I’m delusional what can I say 😭 I’m fully in it
she warned you!!
"Its not a competition, they can both be evil" lol Glad you got caught up with the preview chapters.
I have a feeling by the end of the series there will be a lot of evil to pass around lol
@@Bookborn I am sure - a part of this competition is - that Euron in the show is - lets say "special". If you watch the "finger in the ..." clip you probably understand why everyone wants everyone to know that he is evil and serious. Thats more a reflex now for people who watched the show and love the books.
I loved the Arya chapter so much, when I realized what was happened and when Raf said "You'll have to carry me" got chills as well as a huge smile on my face.
George really be making things come full circle (which is why I’m not in the camp that he’s lost it in dance - if we ever see winds o think it’ll be paced more like asos)
"I know that's going to disappoint a lot of people," on the contrary, that's the best thing you could have possibly done.
For some, I'm sure! I think a lot of people wanted me to do a similar series to my WoT book vs show lol
count me in the camp of just glad kyle is sending you the best clips!
I'm also enjoying everyone discussing the best show scenes in the comments.
it's low-key making me wanna rewatch the first season or 2. (along with my current GoT/ CoK reread that your last video inspired 😅)
I've really enjoyed witnessing your journey through these novels, and I'm sad for both of us that you have reached the end. Thank you for the amazing videos!
As far as the question of whether Jon is dead, my favored theory is that he's going to parallel, not Catelyn, but *Bran*. When Bran was pushed from the tower, there was very much a "Is he alive or dead?" then "Will he live or die?" tension for a few chapters, and we saw hints that he was only hanging onto life through his magical connection to his wolf. There's that quote from a Tyrion chapter about how it seems that when the window is closed to shut out the wolves' howling he weakens. Pretty much everyone theorizes that Jon's "resurrection" will in some way involve Ghost, but I think it's going to involve Jon's warg-link to Ghost magically keeping him just barely alive.
And then, just as Bran had visions while in his coma that led to him ultimately making the choice to return to the world of the living, I think Jon will experience a similar moment of choice and choose to keep living, though, like Bran, changed.
Oohh intersting. I can definitely see this. I think if Jon is going to come back it SHOULD be changed, because death should always have a consequence - we saw it with Catelyn, we saw it with Bran (who didn't die obvi but came very very close)
I can see Jon/Ghost ranging for miles. Thinking it over in a wolfish way. Eventually going back to the Wall and Jon's body.
Undead Jon will be wolfish. Expect his table manners to go to the seven hells.
"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless." The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead - " " - you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
"We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his Warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt."
- Stannis Baratheon
It still gives me chills when I think about how Stannis the Mannis is going to crush the Boltons and Freys and free Winterfell giving it back to the Starks then use the North as a launchpad to liberate the Riverlands! ALL HAIL STANNIS BARATHEON! THE ONE TRUE KING OF WESTEROS! AND THE KING IN THE NORTH!!!
That would be nice, but as this is ASOIAF, I'm guessing that won't happen 🥲
@@Bookborn I really want Tommen to live :( he is literally the most innocent cinnamon bun in ASOIAF and he loves cats! I hope he doesn't die and gets to rule at Casterly Rock
@@Jew_Gi_Ohhe's gotta die... Maggy the frog never misses.
What I love about the show is that the show gives smaller characters in the books more opportunity to shine and actually turns them into my favorite characters. I wouldn't call Tywin a small character of course but the show elevates him even more and he is in my opinion the best written character in the show. And Charles Dance plays him to perfection. The way they introduce his character in the show is absolutely magnificent.
Also Margaery. A character that is more in the background in the books. She gets way more screentime in the show and she's one of my favorites. Also Littlefinger and Varys have some of the best dialogue and conversations. Since we don't get any chapters from their point of view in the books we don't get to see their conversations when their alone and it's just incredible. Personally I absolutely love Littlefinger but the show is a big reason for that.
Robb as well. We don't have his point of view in the books but in the show he's far more prominent and we understand him even more since we don't just see him from Catelyn's point of view. Which makes the red wedding even more heartbreaking in my opinion.
Also there's a scene between Cersei and Robert Baratheon in the first season that is just insanely well written. It gives both characters so much more depth and shines a more complex light on their realtionship. It also makes you feel for Cersei because you realize that she went with certain hopes into their marriage but she never stood a chance against Lyanna Stark, the woman Robert truly loved.
In the first four seasons - the best seasons and some of the best televison I have ever seen - the show just excels at writing additional scenes we don't get to see in the book and giving the characters more depth. Which is why I would absolutely recommend it.
The scene between Robert and Cersei was nice but it would have never worked in the books. They made Cersei less of a narcissist and more loving when she never goes that far. She immediately stopped any thought of caring or love for Robert after their first night, and certainly after he started assaulting her repeatedly and blamed it on alcohol when she confronted him about it. Then add the mention where he almost killed Joffrey and knocked his baby teeth out, yeah she despised him 100%.
Also giving mah boi Lord Beric Dondarrion more screen time is a nice thing to come out of the later seasons imo
I can't say this enough. Bookborn, that you have enjoyed/are enjoying your ASOIAF experience - brings me so much happiness.
I *APPLAUD* your self-awareness, having read the books many times and watched (and for the first few seasons RE-watched) the show, I think you've made the right decision. The books ask the readers to make a large number of logical leaps, e.g. Theon's first chapter after the Winterfell debacle. We discover him *after* a large portion of time, and his inner monologue gives us enough to understand the extent of what Ramsay has put him through - we don't experience that WITH him. The show gave us a lot of screen time during that process, and STILL didn't make clear quite how broken Theon has become. As for scenes of a sexual nature, there's a reason why GoT coined 'sexposition'. Scenes that were uncomfortable to read for one reason or another, became either horrific or beautiful depending on how the showrunners wanted viewers to see any given relationship. In my (readers) eyes I thought by doing that they cheapened what those involved learned through their more nuanced interactions.
Hooray for @Read by Kyle, I love that he's made sure you see some of the moments the show gave us that WERE amazing and Brienne being knighted is 100% one of the very best.
Two of my show favourite scenes weren't in the books, purely due to GRRM's writing each pov separately. Kyle may have already showed you - Robert Baratheon and Cersei discussing a potential Dothraki invasion and their marriage and Petyr and Varys 'out-spying' each other in front of the throne, simply delicious acting from all involved.
I love your videos on ASOIAF - and have no problem AT ALL watching more! ❤
PoorQuentyn, the guy who wrote the essay from which the comment quoted, is a legend. He predicted Eurons eldritch apocalypse plan before The Forsaken was read out by GRRM.
Also check out his reread podcast, Not-A-Cast, which is incredible. They're currently in the final stretch of chapters of Storm and have a new episode every 2 weeks.
Oh I'm going to have to check them out!
GRRM has repeatedly praised The Scouring of the Shire and it's my current headcanon that Euron is going to be the Saruman to the Others' Sauron that many of our heroes will have to fight after defeating the Others.
Also, GRRM has stated repeatedly that he hates characters getting resurected and being unchanged by it. Jon is 100% going to be impacted by his resurrection, and I would speculate from the time his consciousness spends inside Ghost. He'll be more wolf-ish, however you choose to interpret that.
We have seen how dying and resurrecting have affected Beric and Stoneheart.
Even if Jon is only changed as much as the former not the latter he very much will have become a different character.
(I like the idea/theory that we won't get any Jon chapters after this (or maybe just one, likely titled "Ghost"). We do have Mel there as a POV up in the Wall to resurrect Jon and then witness his actions.)
If he'll 100% be changed by death, then I shall accept him as dead 😂
Right
Honestly, reading the books and then picking and choosing key scenes via UA-cam seems like a good way to experience ASOIAF.
Kyle has been sending me clips - I've seen 4/5 and it's been fantastic. They are great scenes and have helped me visualize some stuff, but as they are handpicked, they don't ruin anything lmaooo
@@Bookborn Someday I'd like to make a video or write an essay about how Shakespeare's historical plays influenced GRRM. You really see it in season 1 with how Robert Baratheon is portrayed. (The actor is amazing.) He's a character who was once Prince Hal/Henry V and he turns into Falstaff.
Show clips I think you would enjoy:
1) Jaime telling Brienne about killing Aerys (S03E05)
2) Oberyn telling Tyrion he will be his champion (S04E07)
3) Catelyn talking to Talisa (the show's Jeyne Westerling) about Jon Snow (S03E02)
4) Tywin denying Tyrion Casterly Rock (S03E01)
5) Tyrion's speech during his trial (S04E06)
Maybe add cersei and robert talking about their relationship in season 1 episode 5
Tywin Lannister y Arya Stark como Copera, Excelente Dúo
6) Ned Stark’s execution (S01E09)
7) Red wedding (S03E09)
8) Oberyn’s death (S04E08)
9) Tywin’s death (S04E10)
10) The Hound vs Brienne (S04E10)
Lol, I think people kinda missed the point of the Forsaken chapter if they only hyped it up because of the violence :D
I don't want to give any theories away that you might discover on your reread, but this chapter is so full of symbolism, hidden meanings and foreshadowing that it kind of baffles me that people are only talking about Euron's evilness. It's pretty much on the same level as the chapters about the House of the Undying :D
Yeah she missed the point of the forsaken chapter. Or the people who told her about it gave her the wrong things to look for. But easily the most important chapter to the series as a whole
My personal view of Stannis is that he lowkey gives the vibes of someone on the autistic spectrum. As you reread the series, pay attention to how he is in social situations, how he has trouble expressing and understanding his own emotions, and how he has trouble understanding more emotionally driven characters. Even his own goal to sit the iron throne doesn’t come so much from a lust for power, as much as a belief in the only thing he truly understands, the structure of the country.
As a person on the spectrum he always stood out as a kind of relatable character in that way, and it makes him a little bit more tragic when you view him that way. It’s why he is so confused that the storm lords sided with Renly instead of him. He IS the rightful king,(compared to Renly atleast) but people just don’t get along with him, and he can’t understand why that matters at all.
Just my view of things, but an interesting one I think. Loved the video as always!
Oh man I love this take actually. I think of the scenes where he obsesses over renlys peach (or apple? Can’t remember lol). He def has a disconnect in understanding social situations and he can be so one track and black and white about things
@@Bookborn yes exactly! The peach scene is one of my favorites in the whole series for this reason and I relate to it so much. When you view Stannis through this light I feel like his character really shines. Can’t wait for your thoughts on him post reread!
@@ElderVault The peach scene is actually really important in understanding Stannis. I always viewed it that he was so rigid that he couldn't understand someone taking such enjoyment in something as meaningless (to Stannis's perspective) as a peach. I never likened his lack of flexibility and understanding of emotions to ASD, but it certainly seems plausible.
That is an eye opening thought to be honest. And it makes so much sense
Lovely video yet again! Your discussion on religion in the series is something I'd look forward to hearing more of - there is a great thematic thrust through Aeron's chapters where you can see glimpses of George's lapsed catholicism influencing his writing and direction as he explores what faith means to Aeron.
Its hard to understate how big a deal in the community the Forsaken was when George read it in 2016. For years there had been arguments about what the entire point of the greyjoy plot had been in AFFC and it was not really anyone's favourite set of chapters.
But with the Forsaken you see glimpses of some of the horror that Euron will bring to the south through Aeron's visions, and the mask is ripped off in terms of his ambitions which are much grander than even just the iron throne.
There's lots of fun theories to dive into from this chapter and a re-read of the Aeron and Victarion chapters from Feast as well. Poorquentyn has some very interesting analysis of the themes and point of this plotline and what I think are pretty likely predictions for what could happen in winds.
But what makes the Forsaken is how grounded in character is, as Aeron's faith is tested by his abuser/tormentor, and after some of the worst horror in the series Aeron at the end comes through his crucible and for just about the first time offers comfort to someone else - poor Falia Flowers as they prepare to meet their end.
It's the most important thing for me in George's writing, not the fun/wacky theories that people have spent nearly thirty years thinking up.
Idk why I remember these parts but the last line of the Alayne chapter reminds me of the last line of Arya’s chapter in Harrenhal when she becomes Roose’s cupbearer:
“ You may not. It is promised to...another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.”
“The bear is all in black, Arya thought. Like Yoren. She filled Roose Bolton’s cup, and did not spill a drop.”
It’s the newfound confidence! It makes me so excited because not soon after that Arya gets the fuck out of there, which makes me think Sansa’s “stand up to Littlefinger” moment is coming and I’m SO READY.
When I read that bit in the Alaynne chapter - I believe it's towards the end - where one guy (sorry, remembering names from the published books is enough for me^^) says to her how smart she is I couldn't help but smile. Her whole life people called her stupid, vapid and treated her as such.
I love the way that Stannis is kinda positioned as the fallback main character in the war of five kings, like there's no way not to like him eventually because everyone else keeps dying. Ned, Robb, Jon. He's our only hope 😢
The rightful king
@@hsgame4088I've got a flaming heart Baratheon sigil coffee cup that I call the One True Mug of Westeros, because I know what a king looks like.
Agree with you completely. I feel like one of the prevailing themes is how Ned and Tywin's death juxtaposes one another with the legacy they leave and loyalty that is left behind - when Ned dies, he still has loyalty 4 books later of men rallying together to save who they believe is his daughter, because he inspired loyalty out of compassion and honour and genuine leadership. And while the Stark children all struggle, the Stark legacy endures with many still fighting for their name. Tywin meanwhile, inspired loyalty through fear and intimidation, he was purely about power, so as soon as he dies a lot of that loyalty vanishes and doesnt extend to Cersei or the other Lannisters. Tywins own brand of strength ended up doing the most harm to the thing he was so obsessed with maintaining - the family name and legacy. And I think thats a very powerful thematic punch that Martin is super successful in getting across, of the type of person worth following.
Eddard Stark is the sort of a man who is a protector to his vassals. A man who sits and eats with mountain clans, listens to everyone, hears his people's complaints, makes his killing with his own hand. A man who went through a lot, brought down a dynasty bested the storied Arthur Dayne(?), and marched the Northerners against Greyjoys, to topple down the castle of Pyke
Wheras Tywin Lannister is a machievellian dreadlord, that forces respect from people. Tywin thinks the might of his family is his legacy. And lays the foundations of his family's ruin with his actions he thought were wise .
Men like Tywin, inspire people so long as they can enforce that inspiration. When they're gone, the memory of their might aren't remembered that kindly.
That is why Tywin is also obsessed with his family's image, why he despises Tyrion, why he ruined both Jaime and Cersei's lives
That bit about the gods is interesting. There are a couple instances of people praying to The Seven and actually getting their favor. Ser Duncan repeatedly gets blessed by them, sometimes he gets help from an actual smith, sometimes the smallfolk bless him in the name of the Seven and he always seems to get lucky in his fights. Sansa prays that "a hero comes and chops the head of Janos Slynt", Jon ends up doing just that. Cait prays a lot and while she meets a tragic end, her children (except Robb) end up surviving. I don't remember other instances of this happening but it seems like The Seven kind of have power just not in overt ways like the Old Gods or The Red God.
I’m going to look for it on my reread, but the question is are those blessings from the gods or are they coincidences that people associate with the gods they believe in? I don’t have an answer to that, it’s just something I was thinking about during preview chapters
George makes the "gods" pretty alien. And as shown through Weirwood scenes etc., the gods are not working through time in a linear fashion. They can, perhaps, tweak the past so that an event happens in the present in a seemingly natural fashion.
The best example of the Seven possibly maybe being real is Davos being stranded in the middle of nowhere after Blackwater, praying and shortly afterwards getting rescued by Stannis loyalists. Its very unlikely.
But since the Seven are resembling christianity the closest, I think its a pretty good call to keep their existence ambiguous. They might be real, they might not.
@@SerryyI agree, it's a way to explain how some religions have power and others appear to not, but really the Seven could just be less showy and obvious. Like the signs are there but can be easily missed.
wow, I really never considered in all my time as a fan that the seven might actually be real, until this thread
the way I clicked LIGHTNING FAST! The way I consumed the booked after Storm of Swords was via the audiobook, and since Roy Dotrice has since passed away and I'm a voice actor breaking into the audible market I've been coping recently by using the winds chapters for audiobook practice. The Forsaken is my favourite one but I also REALLY love the Theon one and the Sansa one - they're both hinting at some serious planning and I'm DYING to know how those plot lines play out. Also, I am VERY convinced that Jon is going to be changed the way Stoneheart is - I think because wargs live on in their animals when they die, that Jon is currently living in Ghost, and when he is brought back he will be more wolf-ish.
Hi. I want to narrate as a hobby. Can you give me some starting practice ideas ? I'm guessing just record books and analyze them ? Should I upload on YT for feedback ? Thanks
Thank you for reading the sample chapters!! I love hearing your reviews and thoughts and really thought your ADWD review would be the end! As for Jenye meeting Jon, I strongly suspect Jon might stay dead for a while.. we saw with Beric Dondarrion’s monologue in ASOS (beautiful monologue btw) that he’s forgetten the woman he was married, what his castle looked like ect. If Jon stays dead and forgets certain things.. like how Arya looks.. and suddenly FArya turns up at the wall, it’s tragic to think he might think Jeyne really is his sister. I know George loves his ironies and if there comes a point where Sansa meets up with these two, Jon’s world might be shattered even more, who knows! Also Stannis sending Justin Massay on a quest to fetch 20,000 sellswords left me particularly wondering where Justin’s story will take them.. we know things never go as planned so wondering if that’ll tie into Real Arya!
An interesting video would be someone telling you the changes the TV show made and to see your reactions to them, because that would be really funny
Some changes were already told to me and they did not make me happy ☠️
The One True King of the 7 Kingdoms, Stannis Baratheon, shall never fall
He’ll likely die in battle like in the show.
@@alex30425 he will probably die, but definitely not at the battle of Ice
Hopefully fire and blood next! I really loved fire and blood, i've read it several times, and it's a much better and more beautiful read than I was expecting at first. I find it lends scope and scale to the world and to asoiaf in a way I didn't expect was possible
Ps: continuing to enjoy these videos!
It is my next book...after I finish AGOT reread haha! I know I should've done Fire and Blood first but I just reallllyyy wanted to read the first book again knowing what I know now. But then F&B after.
Jon WILL be changed in TWOW, I’d bet literally anything on it.
That’s all I had to say, once again, glad to have you on this side of the journey. Enjoy the wait, I’ll continue to enjoy your content.
"Even a priest may doubt. Even a prophet may know terror. Aeron Damphair reached within himself for his god and discovered only silence. As a thousand voices shouted out his brother's name, all he could hear was the scream of a rusted iron hinge." hits very differently after The Forsaken.
Since you mentioned rereading the books, the character that felt most elevated by a reread to me was Stannis. Cressen's prologue, for example, changes a lot when you know Melisandre see threats against her person in the flames, and likely told Stannis.
On a re-read, the core of Stannis felt like someone that, more than anything, wants to set things right. His talks with Davos are to me some of the more memorable sections of the books, as we get to hear the doubts and regrets and see vulnerability of a man that normally is described as being like iron. Melisandre and Davos being the metaphorical devil and angel on his shoulders, he's a just man in an unjust world that has both been given and set himself an almost unsurmountable task. (That is, Melisandre is not evil, her chapter made it clear she doesn't have nefarious intentions, but rather she's the "end justifies the means" to Davos' "what is one boy against a kingdom? everything.") He's an underdog that refuses to stay down, that villains and schemers throughout the books end up at one point or another fearing. And the only claimant that remembers that King includes the title "protector of the realm."
A line from Sam's chapter really resonated with me the second time through, thought there are many other fantastic quotes.
"Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared."
Oh my GOD that aeron line never clicked with me until you pointed it out
I would love more videos on themes, characters, what you personally love, or feel the most affected by in the series. Very excited by what you will have to say upon reread!!! 🦋 🧊 🌬
That’s for sure in the works! Right now a catelyn defense, Ned and loyalty, and religion in ASOIAF are all rattling around in my brain.
One thing I found interesting was that Stannis wanted one of his knights to escort the banker and Jayne Poole back to Bravos. I hope we get a scene where Arya in one of her guises gets to meet her imposter self/ childhood tormentor. At the same time I can see Martin giving us a so close, but no type of scene.
It would be a super interesting scene, assuming she realizes that Jeyne is supposed to be her. I'm also wondering if there would be any sort of realization that her childhood "tormentor" was nothing - she'd probably have a lot of affection for Jeyne after what Arya has been through at this point and the real horrors she's seen.
@@Bookborn Theon told her that she had to keep pretending to be Jayne, or else no one would see any value in her. Her escorts would have no reason to hide the fact that "Arya Stark" had arrived in Bravos. The question remains of what will be the state of Arya when she arrives. Even "if" she arrives. So many ships have been lost in the autumn storms.
I’m so glad you reviewed ASOIAF. I love this channel and discovered it from your AGoT review.
Re: Jon’s death.
Someone may have already shared this with you, but the prevailing theory is that Jon will have a second life in Ghost. In the prologue of ADwD, Varamyr’s internal monologue reveals skinchangers can live a second life in their animal. Jon seems to be instinctively aware of this possibility when he wonders if any of Bran and Rickon remain in their dire wolves. Jon’s last word is “Ghost.” Also, Melisandre has a vision of him being a man, then a wolf, then a man again.
Upon a re-read, people have noticed Rob’s last word is “Grey Wind.” So Rob probably died twice. 😢
I absolutely devoured Alt Shift X’s videos on ASOIAF after finishing the books. His videos are an amazing resource to recap on theories and character studies, as well as Westeros’ history so I would totally recommend checking them out on your re-read if you haven’t already. And Alt Schwift X and Glidus’ theory live streams are hilarious too but they are very long.
I’ve really loved all your reviews, and it’s been great to see you fall in love with the ASOIAF in real time. Although I think the show is great up until the book’s end, (around season 4 / 5) I completely understand you not watching the full show. It’s can be quite graphic and gory, so I think checking out clips for the stuff you’re interested in is totally the best thing for you. It’s honestly not worth grossing you out or making you feel uncomfortable.
well said! seconded!
I agree Jon does need to return to life changed like Stoneheart
It’s speculated within the fandom Jons skinchanging spirit might be residing in Ghost until they sacrifice Ghost to bring back Jon, sending both Jon and Ghosts spirits back to Jon’s body
Making a wolf man Jon Snow with white hair and red eyes to look like Ghost, potentially in reference to the Michael Moorcock character Elric of Melniboné
Oohhh interesting interesting, like a reverse warg situation where the wolf comes back with the man…
Or. Or the theory that Jon won’t come back and all his chapters will just be him as Ghost, chilling is equally as compelling.
@@Bookborn That's pretty much the entire purpose of the Varamyr Sixskins prologue (imo), to foreshadow this.
Jon's spirit is alive in Ghost. The prologue chapter clearly describes that a warg lives on in one of their animals after they die. That chapter also explicitly states that Jon is a warg. And Jon's last word is "Ghost". There is definitely some important consequence of Jon dying and being resurrected though. It may simply be that people will worship him as a god going forward.
It will entrench the wildling support and elevate it to reverence, but I'm skeptical about what the Queen's Men will do in response. They hate his politics, but what will they do when their precious flames appear to resurrect him?
I really enjoy watching how you gradually dip deeper and deeper into this series.
About the TV show, as you already know, you're not missing much. Watching the show after reading the books would be like crunching on a dry, cheep Doritos right after you had a juicy piece of lemon cake.
I really hope we get winds like this or next year
While I was reading Mercy's chapter, I actually yelled aloud "I fuckin' knew it!"
On the topic of Jon's (probable) resurrection, I think he for sure will be changed. No character in the books are the same after resurrection, from Catelyn to Berric to Patchface.
What i often think about is how Jon and Arya will feel about each other whenever they reunite. Jon will be a war hardened zombie / Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and Arya will be a revenge driven assassin trained by a death cult. Far from the innocent children they were when they left each other. I hope we get to see this in Winds 🥲
The purpose of the prologue in Dance was to explain how Jon can come back without being (significantly) changed. His soul didn't die, only his body. Bar the trauma and perhaps a greater influence from Ghost, he'll be the same person.
@@davidjones272 The prologue in Dance is Varamyr Sixskins, right? Can you elaborate on that? (spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book) From memory I recall that Varamyr escapes the battle with help from a Wilding woman, and then he tries to skin change into her but she basically mutilates herself to stop him. Then he (or both of them?) are killed by white walkers and Varamyr skin changes into his wolf. Are you saying Varamyr is the same within his wolf? Or is it some other part of the chapter I'm not remembering?
The forsaken is the confirmation of Euron as the big main villain, and his intentions to become an eldritch god and unleash the apocalypse. Will you read The World of Ice and Fire, and Fire & Blood?
the big main villains are still north of the wall and we haven't seen much of them yet.
Euron is getting soul snatched by something greater than himself, he'd be a great epilogue to Winds.
@@bobshobybrooooo yessss
@@mrc-rrnthe thing about the others is that there is no Night King at this time. There was one before. My belief is Euron will fill that role.
I can't believe my comment appeared in the video hahaha I'm so happy
I think you've already found the best compromise in watching only select clips from the show. There are certain scenes that are well made and fantastically acted, definitely worth watching; but overall, I don't think the show serves much purpose if one really enjoys the books. The show got me into the books, and I'm grateful for that, but I have no need to rewatch it as a whole.
I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on "The Forsaken", but not for any Ramsey vs Euron competition. I just find the tone of the chapter absolutely amazing. The first line "It was always midnight in the belly of the beast" does such a remarkable job setting this dark, oppressive, dangerous atmosphere, so devoid of hope. I also love how it unfurled Aeron's character for me. Seeing his trauma laid out made me understand him a lot better; how his whole life has been about trying to escape that trauma, one way or another, without ever being allowed to process it properly. Before this chapter, I thought of Aeron as someone who had truly been "Theon's fun party uncle" until a near death experience made him a religious fanatic. Now to me it seems that who he was before was another fascade, or an attempt at being someone he wasn't truly.
I love the parallels with Mellisandre, who has her own traumatic past of being a slave. Both find comfort in their faith to the point of zealotry, both put their hopes on another (Stannis/Victarion) to save them/their people/the world, and both are in for having their faith challenged. Both have a very damaged psyche and sense of self-worth, willing to be matyrs, but unwilling to question their faith.
I used to hate Aeron chapters, wanting to skip them, but "The Forsaken" changed my mind on them.
You mentioned themes of leaving behind one's self with Arya and Jon, and I think that's very true for more or less all the Starklings.
Sansa pretending to be Alayne and getting dragged into Baelish schemes, but thinking "I am not your daughter", "I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell", and holding on to many of the values she was taught growing up despite the influences of cynical people like Baelish, Cersei and the Hound.
Jon wanting Winterfell, but refusing it to stay loyal to his Night's Watch vow; only to then abandoning his vow to attempt to save Arya and go after Ramsey, as well as aiding Stannis.
Bran having to become a green seer, becoming part of some collective godhood of sorts it seems; but he keeps coming back to Winterfell through the trees, talking to Theon, seeing his father, seeing young Lyanna and Benjen. He wants home, not to be a tree god.
And Arya, trying to leave behind the girl who was hurt over and over to become No One, to escape the past and to become someone with the skills to protect herself. Only she cannot give up Needle, because Needle is home.
Presumably we will learn what became of Rickon on Skagos. But it does seem like all the Starklings have a similar core to the story, involving their identity as a Stark.
Winterfell is home. The Starks are family. Ned and Cat taught them good values they try to hold on to despite most of them going down dark and dangerous paths that challenge those values. My hope is that they all manage to turn around from those paths, to return to home and family and love and honour, even if they all do so changed and marked by their journeys.
I think Jon dying might mean he will spend time in Ghost having a "second life", and I think it's possible that will bring about quite a change in him. Maybe he will poetically become more "wolf-blooded", as some Starks (Brandon, Lyanna) tend to be, as we have seen in both Jon and Arya to some extend already.
I don't think it will be some magical transformation of character just because he spends time in a wolf, but rather come about because Jon would be spending time in the more emotional state of an animal, all while full of anger at being "betrayed" by this Night's Watch brothers. We know Catelyn and Beric came back focused on what mattered most in their moment of dying. Beric only died briefly, Catelyn far longer. I don't know what it would mean, if Jon spent a long time dead, but inside Ghost. But I do think he might come back darker, angrier and more vengeful, with a focus on retaking Winterfell, killing Ramsey, and finding his baby sister.
I understand not watching the show but I do think you’re missing out. Seasons 1 to season 4 are imo the greatest tv ever made. They could’ve ended it at the season 4 finale and I don’t think anything would compare.
If I may make a suggestion, my sister is exactly like u in that she absolutely does not do well with graphic portrayals of anything, violence, sex, assaults, etc. And she’s also perfectly fine with just the book versions in her head, but I suggested watching the series on an app named VidAngel where u can edit out before every episode all these things to a very minute detail.
She gave the first few episodes a try using & doing this and fell absolutely in love with the show, as much as she loved the books! She said watching the show actually added more depth to a lot of the characters she already loved from reading the books beforehand.
And the parts that the VidAngel application made sure got removed she said didn’t affect the viewing experience at all cause since she had read the books already she knew what had happened and was glad she didn’t have to watch it and yet also wasn’t lost in the storyline by it having gotten cut by the filter app.
Just a suggestion, cause if u can do this, watching the series really will imho greatly enhance ur entire ASOIAF experience.
You are absolutely right about the show. The world depiction is first rate, yes there is GRAPHIC violence which hits harder on the visual channel, even though it is actually less dark than the books, like there is no Lady Stone Heart in the show and Euron is JOKY instead of EEEEEville..
When you read, the screen editor is your imagination and or your inner self protective censor.
It has been a lot of fun watching you go through ASOIAF and seeing your thoughts and opinions on it! I absolutely agree about how great GRRM is at recontextualising events we have already witnessed but from a different perspective, like with how Arianna reflects on Dany's plot both in mind and while speaking to the Golden Company. I think a lot of GRRM's inherent pragmatism and perspective based judgement was heavily inspired by Glen Cook's Black Company, but GRRM turned it up to 11 with Song.
Now you're with the rest of us waiting for Winds lol. Welcome.
I think you would love the different analysis the fandom has come up with throughout the years. Not theories looking into the future which can end up being too much of speculation, but analysis of past events and how they are connected. The Grand Northern Conspiracy, The Grand Maester Conspiracy and stuff like that. Also there’s so many good factible theories that are so amazing like The Night Lamp for Stannis battle, Red Wedding 2.0, how can Jon actually resurrect. Welcome to the waiting room I guess!
I totally understand your opinion on not watching the show, but I actually would be interested in your reaction to House of the Dragon. Especially after you read Fire & Blood. It's a very different adaptation of a very different styled book, not everything works, but I think it makes some interesting decisions. Also, even if you're not watching either show, I definitely recommend listening to Ramin Djawadi's music for them, it is absolutely divine
I just realized that Bookborn has a strange similar appearance to Jeyne Poole, other than Theon, nobody else has it as bad as Jeyne Poole who is violated and abused so viciously and brutally by Ramsey Snow! Those chapters of Jeyne being put through Hell gave me PTSD, and she's only 13 years old! WTF!!!
Wow, I completely missed the switch from Misery to Arya until you mentioned it. I tip my cap! And I completely agree with you on Stannis, it surprised me just how much I find myself rooting for him; especially considering how absolutely certain I am he will be the first real casualty to the White Walkers. And it would be so George to give Stannis the big win at Winterfell and really feel like he's building serious momentum...and then the Winds of Winter arrive at Winterfell.
Echoing some other comments here that the Forsaken changed my view of Euron. Initially I was skeptical of claims about him and leaned towards him being a charlatan, however after the Forsaken, I’m convinced he’s the real deal. He is clearly planning a massive, horrific blood sacrifice outside of Oldtown in an attempt to become a god - what kind of magical power he’ll get from this remains to be seen. Poorquentyn has done some excellent writing on this that I recommend you check out.
Every video you drop motivates me to finish the series faster so I can watch these vids 😂(NO ONE RESPOND TO THIS I DON'T WANT SPOILERS lol)
DO IT!! It’s seriously so so good 😭 it’s been two weeks since I’ve finished and I’m still not over the hangover lmao
I've been rereading this series over and over for something like 20 yrs as new books come out, and I'm still finding new things to love in it! It's hand in hand with Lord of The Rings and Terry Pratchett's best books for me.
Danwell Frey visits Darry
Arya is being sent to Westeros, but she is being told she's a bad FM, but that is just hazing.
They want her to go - likely to kill somebody at KL.
but
She can't let go of her real self, she will meet Nymeria, they will tear up the mercenary bands and likely run into LSH, who might be willing to die if she knows at least one or two of her kids have survived.
Completely agree about the Mereen chapters! I wish grrm had included them in aDwD..
I'm sure this has been said before, but I really feel like Stannis and his forces being trapped in a blizzard is a great metaphor for readers' situation over the past decade plus 😢
Edit : And the decision to avoid the show is 100% the best one. For the reasons you mention, but also because the drop in quality from s4 to 5 is perhaps the most jarring ive ever experienced!
If you haven't tried it, The World of Ice and Fire is really worth getting. Aside from the beautiful illustrations, its just an incredible treasure trove of lore and background to the main story.
I very much would second the recommendation for AWOIAF as well.
I don't know how you are with world books/series companions Bookborn, but as someone who really likes the type I would consider a World of Ice and Fire a very well executed example of it.
There is a show only clip of a conversation between Cersei and Robbert that is amazing.
I'm a book fan and I've watched the entire show and I'm telling you, you are not missing anything. The praise the show gets is well deserved don't get me wrong, but all the points you laid out are exactly why I'm convinced you would not enjoy the show in any case. I *would* still recommend House of the Dragon simply because of the way Fire and Blood is written - it's very vague and presents a lot of conflicting accounts, and is brief in its description of events the way that history books in real life are, so the show really is something special when it comes to expanding on that, and as a book fan I think they did a phenomenal job, hardly making any of the mistakes Game of Thrones did. However... while it is much less graphic and isn't gratuitous (especially concerning SA like GoT was SO weird about graphic sexual violence, thankfully HotD is not really like that) it DOES have graphic scenes pertaining to childbirth so I can't whole-heartedly recommend it to the faint of heart. I do hope you get to see clips from it though, because they are really doing something great with HotD!
The Forsaken is bat $hit crazy, and I absolutely love it.
I came back to your channel after seeing your conversation with the goat, Preston Jacobs. Had to pause that video and come here, because I realised I hadn’t kept up to date with your ASOIAF journey. I have now watched all your videos on it, subscribed obvs, and will now be going back to Preston's chat.
I really enjoy your take on the books, and if you are (still) interested in them, I think you would enjoy the RadioWesteros podcasts. Even for somebody who had done many re-reads, their videos/podcasts are very useful to have all the tiny bits of information condensed in one clearly presented video. I found them very useful before jumping into theories. And of course, if you really want to join the fandom, Preston, Quinn the GM, Glidus and AltShiftX are fabulous channels. From Preston Jacobs I particularly enjoy the Night’s Watch videos and A Frey in the Snow. Also, if you get around to Fire and Blood, Joe Magician has some stellar theory videos.
After having typed all that wall of text, I realised that you're probably not even into watching youtubers dissect the most obscure hints in 5000 pages of text 😅 If you're not, just disregard. Mkay, bye! ❤
*You simply must add David Lucifer Means Lightbringer and Quinn of Quinn's Ideas and Robert of In Deep Geek and Company of the Cat!*
Meera Reads is a blast, too!
Hey @Bookborn
If you aren't watching the show, I would at least check the conversation between Robert and Cercei from the first season. It's really well acted and it adds to their characters.
Great review.. that didn’t take long! 😊. Enjoy your reread. The books get better each time!
The good news is that even if Winds doesn't come out these books are dense enough that you'll be noticing new details and learning new things about the world for the next decade, there's so much going on in every scene in these books, the journey's far from over.
I won't hold out for you watching the show like I'm holding out for Merphy to watch Cowboy Bebop but I hope you've seen some of the show only scenes that add a different layer of characterization. My all time favorite being Catelyn telling a story about a sick child. Followed by Robert and Cersei talking about their marriage.
But then there's also the masterful scene between Theon and Luwin.
Some scenes in the show are very good and not on the books (Added or inspired by Martin himself. Even some might be better in the show than in the books.
some dialogues are worth watching, for example, tywin explaining Jamie why the lion doesn't concern the opinion of the sheeps. or Tyrion trial. or john talking to maester aemon about love and duty. or dany speaking the first time to the unsoiled and burning the slave master. basically just watch season 1 to 4 if you must. after that, don't bother, everything decays quickly.
Oh, and if you're not watching the show (which is a fine choice btw! Watching clips is a good way to go because there are some powerful ones. Look up Cersei and Littlefinger talking about power) all that's left is to watch Alt Shit X's hour longer Tyrion video. It's such good analysis and I think you'd really like it!
Yes, you're all caught up with "A Song of Bron and Friends" cause we all know Bron is the MC who will sit on the throne at the end.
The falling star bespoke the end
Great video!! Cant wait to see how much more you pick up on during your reread! 😄
@7:51 absolutely. While you're going through F+B or after I'd recommend Preston Jacobs's series "Overanalyzing House of the Dragon" where he nitpicks the hell out of how F+B tells the Dance
Wow such a nice treat getting this video so quickly!
Tywin did not inspired loyalty. He made people afraid of him.
I saw it on a comment you replied on the last video that you have a pretty good grasp about the BIG REVEAL of Winds of Winter (and I would say George's main plot twist of the series). Would love to see you comment on it :)
Would also love to see your takes on how you think the story will move from now on :)
I know I need to comment on this somewhere because I get asked so much about it but I just don’t know where to put it!! lol
@@Bookborn It's worth its own video if you can't fit anywhere else. Trust me. :)
11:25
Thats interesting. For me its the exact opposite: I can just look away from the screen, but if my brain conjures a scene, that scene is going to live rent-free in my head, like it or not
Sansa is at last getting to be a regular teenager - at least a little. How long until she decides to undermine LF? I think it will be when she figures out that he is killing Sweetrobin with dreamwine, he's an obnoxious kid but I think she will find killing him to be wrong, and she'll expose him.
One way or another she will out fox him because of his creepy uncle crush on her, the student will exceed the instructor!
2:57 Beric Dondarrion would like to have a word.
On loyalty_ Tywin and Jamie treat their soldiers and other brothers in arms decently, and they get some loyalty that way. Tyrion acts like money should buy him loyalty and turns into a real nasty piece of work when it does not. Now he's coping with being a nobody with only his wits, he might figure it out. We'll see.
Cersei of course just treats people like poop more and more as he goes madder and more paranoid, so she gets less and less loyalty as time goes by.
I don't know how aware you are with fan theories and all. But one thing I just love about this book series, that it has this layered, ambigious storytelling with so much layer and subtext, it's like book version of Baldur's Gate 3.
You just want to read, and then read again. Been about 5 years since I last read this series fully, I'm about to restart the Clash of Kings, I am convinced that Martin's unparallelled at making you want to learn what's going on next
Also, the insane dualism in this universe is way better structured than most people appaciate
Love these kinds of videos!!!!!!! Always very insightful views of the books.
And there are so many iconic moments in the books that are just a better experience visually in the show
I don't think you'd like the GOT show, but after you finish Fire and Blood I would recommend House of the Dragon, the sex scenes have an intimacy coordinator and a female directed the most sexually themed episode, which is only 1 out of 10 mind you. There's still violence, but it feels less lingered on? Not just for shock value I guess? Definitely talk to those who know you best if they've seen it, but the illicit material is handled much better in my opinion.
I want to read F&B first but if I watch anything it would be HoD! People I trust think I’d enjoy it (and say I wouldn’t enjoy the main tv show) so it’s def a possibility for me
@@Bookborn It is really such an ideal way to do an adaptation. Take something that is essentially an unreliable plot outline and flesh it out with richly layered and conflicted characters. Highly recommend if you can figure out a plan for the tougher (but narratively appropriate) scenes it does have.
2:35 *Beric + Lady Stoneheart = FORESHADOWING.*
You should add the GRRM written sections of the World of Ice and Fire to your list! Especially the story over the Rather of Castemere. You'll understand where Tywin's loyalty was truly born.
I just watched the “being a UA-camr” video you did months ago for the first time. Sad to see those people who write to you that way. Just supporting you and you’re creative endeavors.
Euron's chapter I think strikes a chord with people because it confirms the whole Eldritch Apocalypse theory written by PoorQuentyn. It is also a confirmation the Euron is the final villain of the story, becoming stronger because of all the death that has been happening due to the War of Five Kings. He's using those deaths to fuel his own magic, it seems. His goal is apotheosis.
Random fact about the Mercy chapter, it was intended to be the first Arya chapter after A Storm of Swords back when George had made a 5 year time skip between Storm and Feast. It's a super super old chapter.
I would love to see you do a crazy theory reaction (possibly with Preston Jacobs) just to see your reaction to fan theories.
Keep the ASOIAF content coming. It's so nice to hear from someone with a fresh experience of the story.
I hope you review Preston Jacobs Winds of Winter fanfiction chapters.
I believe Jon will be different upon his resurrection. Yes, he didn't change at all in the show, but George has said numerous times that his characters who come back from death will be changed. Coming back from death would absolutely change a person, and George has made that very clear. I really hope we get to see George's ending!
Once again, you fail to mention Victarion. I can only assume this is because you are waiting for the chapter where he sails the Dothraki sea.
Haha I’m sorry! I actually really enjoyed his chapters in dance, it’s just hard to discuss everything when there’s so much
Underrated comment
@@readbykyle3082 I was positive you were going to bring up that I pronounce his name very wrong because I even spell it wrong
Stannis the mannis
I do think its interesting how well they set up Myranda Royce in the books, because she is definitely trying to get info on Alayne and Little Finger for her father.
Sansa has made it pretty clear she's from the north already when meeting Myranda they talk about a new high septon and a new commander of the wall sansa react to jon instead of the high sparrow even though she was supposed to have been raised in the faith, not to mention the Royce's found Lysa bodie and one of Sansa shoe fell through the moon door so could have a real Cinderella moment