Hey guys, am a latter saint here in Utah really enjoyed the history of the RLS church or community of Christ had a lot of questions about the churches history and how you guys are doing things and what not and this answered a lot of my questions, so I really appreciate that. Thanks.
Much like the Democratic party diverging from the racism of southern Democrats, ordaining women was obviously a painful but necessary move for a church in alignment with the teaching of Christ. I'm so excited to be learning about your church. It fills me with joy and gratitude for all the hard work you have done. You have laid a beautiful foundation to build on in the name of Christ in the 21st century. Thank you so much. 😊
I was unable to wach live as I had a zoom meeting scheduled for the same time. After my zoom meeting I watched this presentation on UA-cam. Thanks for sharing.
John you are awesome I have been a covert for 50 years and I have learned more from you in the last few months then in all those years I appreciate you for all you do
Speaking of politial termol The salt lake city mormans are Democratic Mick Romney is salt lake morman the blm lead by the demo party ran around destroying statues when they went salt lake they touch the sacred jospeh smith statue So we party sweep of demo running claiming they are Republicans Romney is demo salt lake morman
I grew up in Disciples of Christ so it was something I suspected that there was a similar origins as the Mormons particularly with Campbell. Some of the family names brought up in the presentation had similar names as I grew up in D of C. It was good to understand what is meant by "primitive" church. TY
I was also curious about what "primitive" meant, having driven by Primitive Southern Baptist churches many times before. Upon doing a quick search, apparently there are also Progressive Primitive Baptists, which is the most amusing name ever.
@@MM-jf1me When you look up Progressive Primitive it doesn't seem that radical. The Disciple of Christ split because some churches wanted to have musical instruments and the other ones wanted to remain true to the bible by not having them. It was a big split because there are a lot Churches of Christ everywhere now. I'm not sure if the church I belonged to as a kid wsa part of that split or one of the sister churches nearby. LOL
As an lds convert, I've wanted to go back on my terms. I found out about community of christ and I didn't know where to start, then I found this!!! Thank you!!!
D&C 163 - "It is not pleasing to God when any passage of scripture is used to diminish or oppress races, genders, or classes of human beings. Much physical and emotional violence has been done to some of God’s beloved children through the misuse of scripture. The church is called to confess and repent of such attitudes and practices." So at the end of the day, scripture is as they say in Eastern wisdom, merely but "a finger pointing to the moon." That is a lot of historical analysis to get to this one point. Let me know if I am wrong.
You mean they are not allowed to shun members __ through violence _ rumors _ calling them evil spirits _ claiming their holy spirit is gone _ passing rumors to knowingly cause violence to them __threats to take their kids if they don't mind _ claiming they have bipolar memory problems and not taking medication and they need their kids taken _ doing isolation from the rest of family from their rumors ,_ You mean Mormans are told not to have that type behavior ___ Why is this type of abusive shunning going on and when its caught _ the presidency comes out __ claiming __ " we don't have control of what goes on in OUR Satilite churches __ this type shunning maybe not all the abuse of shunning depending how abusive _ both mentally and physically these folks are ___ its from Priesthood thinking they are God's __ which is what Smith and rest of the founders that claimed God gave them permission to have multiple wives and live as God's _ Having all these wives _ so the shunning still goes on because the Mormon church and all the break offs started from the basic principle that the men are God's __ and as God's allowed multiple wives including kid wives virgins __ If these priesthood men start shunning from request from women _and can't seem to handle request __ Because they hate women __ they think they are God heads __ are abuse their authority __ knowing they are abusing it _ comes with comments like we don't care __we don't care __ which is exactly the comments made when these folks are involved in shunning ___
I actually sympathize with the modern sections of the Community of Christ D&C, but to be a member you essentially have to believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet whose false revelations are finally being replaced by the truth after nearly 200 years. That is too much cognitive dissonance for me! I ended up leaving the Restoration movement entirely and joining the Episcopal Church. Theologically I side with the Community of Christ liberals on most issues but instead of leaving the Restoration behind as I did, they forced all the conservatives out and told them the religion they were raised in was bunk. So I have a particular dislike for the Community of Christ of which I used to be a member.
I really enjoyed this lecture, in England we were told about the beginning of the church by Joseph Smith1 and then about the church being reorganised but never told about Nauvoo and what happened there, so this was very interesting. I felt that the way you answered the questions that were asked was excellent also.
I'm not religious in any sense but I actually love the Community of Christ. They genuinely love with the love of God. A deep love for all living things.
55:00 @John Hamer, could you or someone in your group add the historical membership numbers to Wikipedia? There is an article concerning the LDS historic growth, so it would be great if the CoC numbers were available as well.
Just left this church, the RLDS , LOST ITS WAY ! Some time before they switched their name to community of christ in 2000 ! God has not changed his mind about the things that happened in Sodom and Gamora! He is against them ! The community is not if , you look at their new exultations !
If there are multiple conflicting accounts of Joseph Smith first vision, are you saying that it’s not true? And if that’s the case where does the Community of Christ church receive its authority to do anything. The Mormon church believes that Joseph Smith is the prophet of God and that is where they get their authority as a church.
Joseph Smith gave several differing accounts of the First Vision. Ask yourself why. Also, he hid his Polygamy to everyone but his inner circle. Brigham Young was the first Mormon open about having 50+ wives. Unfortunately, LDS rarely know their history because they're taught the Disney version on Sundays. If you're a member of the LDS who believe Brigham Young was the correct successor, ask yourself why so many of Brighams ideas have been abandoned.
Were did the authority or REVELATION to start a sex cult come from ? __ or to add on the Bible coming these folks a Revelation and permission to do soo __and permission to have multiple wives __ they started an immoral sex cult _ Smiths and Brigham young goal was to grow as fast as possible so they wouldn't be shut down __the goal is not family oriented _ the goal was to spend time manipulating wives and getting the preg _ then running finding more _ having as kids as possible _ having 30 wives 56 kids _ how are they fulfilling any of the marriage commitments to any of the wives _ or being a father _ to any of the kids __ the goal was fast growth through missinturputaion and twisting the Bible and adding on __ Mormons all denominations still all based thier org religion on the Foundation of Smiths _ and others sex cult _ and use privileges by how many kids the members have how many males _ to further thier priesthood callings _it started as a sex cult and it still runs on the Foundation of Smith s3x cult _ the practice of shunning is also _ part of abuse of members started by Smith Sex cult it was implemented to threaten women or wives not to leave _ with threats of taking their kids if they leave _ possessions saying they won't see family-- and their are members still participating _ in that abuse _ it was started as a sex cult and although they gave up polygamy _ it's still run on the Foundation of a sex cult __ The shunned are called Apostates _ that termination originated from polygamy and meant and still means runaway sex slave __
That is ultimately one of the reasons I left the RLDS church. If all churches in the ecumenical movement are true, what was the point of the Restoration in the first place? Happily Episcopalian now. ❤
@@donatist59if you profess that Joseph Smith is a prophet then what do you think of the following: Doctrine and Covenants 115 1 Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and also my servant Sidney Rigdon, and also my servant Hyrum Smith, and your counselors who are and shall be appointed hereafter; 2 And also unto you, my servant Edward Partridge, and his counselors; 3 And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world; 4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is straightforward in eliminating which church has any validity that claims to believe Joseph Smith as a prophet.
I'm going to listen to several of your lectures on LDS but I'm frankly stunned to know you're part of the reformLDS as I've watched around 12 of your videos and they are academic, thorough, progressive, open minded, historically accurate and not preachy what so ever. I understand that Centre Place in Canada has abandoned the Americentric views of the usually quite far right views of many LDS in the US but all the same my interactions with traditional LDS people here in Montreal were highly culty (this is coming from someone who left the Ordo Templi Orientis). The moment I'd get the attention of the younger of the two men going around trying to get people interested in what I was saying about my post-Thelemic renewed interest in Christianity which is non-dogmatic and takes a syncretic view of God based on many religions and traditions the older man cut us off and pulled him away. That was alarming and scary to me and I find myself thinking of the younger one's eyes years after to this day... how excited he was when I was describing my spiritual experiences and how I study Kabbalah and Hermeticism but have no dogmatic belief in either just use them as tools to investigate my connection to God which I view much in the same way Spinoza did (Nature = God, not a personified being but instead a totality filled with Mystery which science as well as religion and philosophy can help us connect to). I was describing how we each need to find our own path to find our connection to God and that its a deeply personal matter and that my views and his views need not be the same for us to chat and get along and appreciate the divine together. Somehow that was off limits and the younger man was pulled away, clearly not wanting to leave.... it really does still haunt me. While I've left the OTO what I loved about it was all Masonic while what I didn't came from Crowley. I've been considering taking Blue Lodge Freemasonry for a few years now and know Smith and his family were Masons and there's some connection there... would love to hear more about that.
It is shocking how far away the community of Christ RLDS has drifted away from the Christs restored church. It is as though they can’t distance themselves from Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon fast enough. This is very eye opening
If you see this, perhaps you can comment. I recently came across several Platt Books for Stark County, Illinois, and various other Illinois locales, and saw a lot of land listed as owned by a Joseph Smith. Would this have been our Joseph Smith? This was from the period 1830-1850. Thanks! Randy
Genuine question. How did the Community of Christ settle on believing in the Trinity as does mainstream Christianity? Does your church not believe that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus as two seperate personages?
If the practice of polygamy was unacceptable in the Christian domain,is the same sex marriage proper enough to admit,recognise and promote in Christian domain?
I'm a little offended that the LDS church is referred to as Brighamites. Too bad we can't live like the people of 4 Nephi "There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God." I'm LDS, and I find this history fascinating. My fourth great-grandfather David Cluff had a carpentry shop across the street from the temple, so I'm told.
150 years ago, RLDS were the Josephites (as in JSIII) and the LDS were Brighamites. Then our moniker switched to 'Reorganites.' I can't say I'm fond of that term myself. .
I watched the whole video. It seems to me as an outsider that by 1860, Brigham Young had succeeded, leading the majority of members to Salt Lake City where a thriving, growing, religious community was built from nothing. The State of Utah was well established and BY had proven himself as a leader and founding father. Enough said. Meanwhile back east, before 1860, the minority was quarreling and splintered into several groups. There was no real growth or organisation until Joseph Smith III had assumed the throne in 1860 which had been waiting for him since he was 11. Was the only reason people didn't follow BY was because they didn't want to leave their farms and live in Utah? The rest of the story of the RLDS is a bumpy one, including splits, a bankruptcy, mass defections in the 1990's because the new leader was not a Smith lineal descendant. I was shocked to learn it took 40 years to build the auditorium. In comparison the LDS Church based in Utah became a proven success. It looks like Brigham Young was right.
In the 1980's I worked for a financial institution making a number of home loans in an upscale lake development in Jackson County. Some of the RLDS members would put an observation deck at the top of their homes. I was told it was to see the returning of Jesus. But maybe that was not the real reason, people just say things. But I did see some of those decks way up high in big homes. I figured a lot of those people had some money.
Fun fact: there are three congregations in independence and a few more scattered that still don’t allow women in the priesthood, but are still part of the church. I was raised RLDS and there are plenty of people that still believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon. I’m honestly confused why someone would stay in a church they think was founded by a liar.
Everybody in Independence seems to know why G. McMurray resigned but few will say it. Isn't it kind of weirdly immature to not be transparent and truthful? The reason was not fraud or a felony.
I feel there was some significant misinformation in this lecture. I also thought some comments regarding the LDS Church were inaccurate and disingenuous.
I'm sorry but the more l listen to the history of the Mormon church and any of it's offspring the more l shake my head. I have always found people that say they are filled with the spirit or those who claim to get it straight from God the most disconcerting of people. What did they think they were going to give to the Indians? You cannot transmit what you do not have. What churches like this are selling is emotionalism dressed up as spiraltualism. It's not the power of God they feel . It is there emotions being stirred up when they are empty and grasping for meaning. I noticed in the lecture you did on the movement up to the death of its head scam artist you failed to mention counterfeiting a lot of counterfeiting and a lot of poisonings of members. Pretty bad man it's a sad story.
Your organization obviously does not teach the Bible. The ‘revelations’ add are not found in the Bible. In the Bible it says you cannot add to or take away from it.
The Bible has been translated and edited so many times. There are many that a “few men” deemed not worthy of the canon. Many that were earlier Christian writings. There is so much we don’t know.
The verse you're referring to is specifically talking about the Book of Revelation, not the Bible. The Bible, as we know it today, did not exist when that statement was made.
The gospels are the only part of the Bible that make any sense to me. The rest is medieval reinterpretation of gospel or Old Testament which is mostly ancient stories from Mesopotamia and Egypt reinterpreted by Hebrew scholars over time. Even the gospels as John has astutely taught were a compilation of oral history compiled the century after the time of Jeshua.
Joseph Smith didn't wrote the BOM while in Jail He was in jail because of slave plantation camp of women he had American was abolishing slavery Smith took his women slaves to A slave state Illinois He was running around out of the safe zone picking up more women slaves including young girls he got arrested While in jail he wrote the BOM to claim God told him to have wives then added his dysfunctional pedifile views writting about God giving him premission to be a pedifile and org a sex slave cult Then he claimed he was married to them it was after he was murdered for his garbage that the women and girls left including Emma Illinose was a slave state thats why Joseph' Smith ran with his women and girl slaves to as America was ending slavery in all states Smith married all of them along with male followers Then claimed they were wives and he wouldn't let the, go he was killed and then the women What's the Restorationn church doing let me guess restoring smiths sex slave camp Here got some volunteers women to be enslaved caroyn greene shannon greene and dede Dare has a desire to enslaved and forced to pop out for any loves babies Dede has volunteered that she's a virtuous volunteer calling herself a women of God pure and does believe in birthcontrol abortion for rape or incest or plan because she's claims she's a women of god. And Added Got It The first two volunteers they questionable volunteers because of lack of education and been denied acess to mental health meds The latter volinteer dede claims she's told by god to volunteer she's claims she's educated and dosent have any mental health issues and says god told her which a red flag 🚩in itself Dede likes to dictate what others should do they should forced to pop babies if raped or incest and not access to plan b or abortion because you she's a virtuous women. Or wait maybe she's a bully Any way she volunteered her services to be forced to pop out babies for others who love kids to take off with she comes with a pocket full of THC gummy bears cadies so to ease any pain. Every Got It. She wants to sure everybody gets it We one of froend volunteering to make dede does run plan b or abortions stated he will take outside to beat those that are for abortion And wants to volunteer to vonouble beat up raped molested and be virtuous and not appeared abortions cause according to her exceptional self procla8med brain it's agaist the civil right for egg nit be be allowed to drop in the Uterous and prevent that by taking plan b And it'd against the civil to seek abortion the women need to be forced to have the baby and Gove it up for adoption forced medical care forced to be assaulted by blood draws and assaulted during delivery because it's against the civil Rights of the fetus to have abortion and agaist the civil rights of egg to take a plan b to prevent it from attaching to the uterus Here's red Flagg I didn't hear her say rape was a sin and against the civil Rights of the women or that child molestation was against the civil of the child and sin I didn't hear that from the volunteering watch kids with her pockets full of gummy saying how she wants to build into this hughe cult is the word with Bizzare teachings with threats made Got It
JESUS CHIRST IS THE SABBATH JESUS CHIRST IS THE ONLY LIVING GOD CALL ISRAEL CALL CHRIST CALL MESSIAH CALL SALVATION CALL AMEN CALL FLESH CALL MY LORD CALL GOD NAME JESUS CALL TRINITY = WE ARE THE REAL JEWS CALL CHRISTIAN = CHILD OF GOD = JESUS CHIRST IS THE KING OF THE JEWS = ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY = GOD GOVERNMENT CALL VATICAN HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC = GOD TRUE CHURCH
No they never did _ it started as a sex cult _ multiple wives _ the men of these wives were gone _ to find wives _ in order for that to work the women were volunteering to have more wives to also be married.too they had sex with each other as well _ they never discriminated against gay women _ nor do they shun gays __ They didn't ask the women if they were gay when Smith manipulated them to his s3x camp__
I am not sure how you mean "accost", but if the Church accepts... and ENCOURAGES deviant and unhealthy physical practices, you have slipped over the edge. It seems that practices known to breed disease (both physical and psychological), should be included in the Word of Wisdom. How many times does the Lord have to provide examples of what happens to both heterosexuals and homosexuals when sex is lowered to the level of (some) animals.
Hey guys, am a latter saint here in Utah really enjoyed the history of the RLS church or community of Christ had a lot of questions about the churches history and how you guys are doing things and what not and this answered a lot of my questions, so I really appreciate that. Thanks.
Fascinating history. Thank you very much.
Much like the Democratic party diverging from the racism of southern Democrats, ordaining women was obviously a painful but necessary move for a church in alignment with the teaching of Christ. I'm so excited to be learning about your church. It fills me with joy and gratitude for all the hard work you have done. You have laid a beautiful foundation to build on in the name of Christ in the 21st century. Thank you so much. 😊
I was unable to wach live as I had a zoom meeting scheduled for the same time. After my zoom meeting I watched this presentation on UA-cam. Thanks for sharing.
I am glad you changed your church name. Your church has drifted so far from the church Joseph Smith established, it was appropriate.
From a current "Utah" Latter-Day Saint, this presentation was very informative! Thank you for sharing!
You're the man Juanito; I love your lectures.
Reconciling with my Utah Mormon upbringing, this is an incredible history, thank you very much
John you are awesome I have been a covert for 50 years and I have learned more from you in the last few months then in all those years I appreciate you for all you do
Recently resigned from the Salt Lake Mormons. This is super interesting!
Me too.
I just heard about this name and I just looked it up .it brought me here
Speaking of politial termol
The salt lake city mormans are Democratic
Mick Romney is salt lake morman the blm lead by the demo party ran around destroying statues when they went salt lake they touch the sacred jospeh smith statue
So we party sweep of demo running claiming they are Republicans Romney is demo salt lake morman
I grew up in Disciples of Christ so it was something I suspected that there was a similar origins as the Mormons particularly with Campbell. Some of the family names brought up in the presentation had similar names as I grew up in D of C. It was good to understand what is meant by "primitive" church. TY
I was also curious about what "primitive" meant, having driven by Primitive Southern Baptist churches many times before. Upon doing a quick search, apparently there are also Progressive Primitive Baptists, which is the most amusing name ever.
@@MM-jf1me When you look up Progressive Primitive it doesn't seem that radical. The Disciple of Christ split because some churches wanted to have musical instruments and the other ones wanted to remain true to the bible by not having them. It was a big split because there are a lot Churches of Christ everywhere now. I'm not sure if the church I belonged to as a kid wsa part of that split or one of the sister churches nearby. LOL
@@eottoe2001 I agree the Primitive Baptist split makes perfect sense.
As an lds convert, I've wanted to go back on my terms. I found out about community of christ and I didn't know where to start, then I found this!!! Thank you!!!
they are RLSD no different than LDS. they broke away because they had a feud
D&C 163 - "It is not pleasing to God when any passage of scripture is used to diminish or oppress races, genders, or classes of human beings. Much physical and emotional violence has been done to some of God’s beloved children through the misuse of scripture. The church is called to confess and repent of such attitudes and practices."
So at the end of the day, scripture is as they say in Eastern wisdom, merely but "a finger pointing to the moon."
That is a lot of historical analysis to get to this one point.
Let me know if I am wrong.
You mean they are not allowed to shun members __ through violence _ rumors _ calling them evil spirits _ claiming their holy spirit is gone _ passing rumors to knowingly cause violence to them __threats to take their kids if they don't mind _ claiming they have bipolar memory problems and not taking medication and they need their kids taken _ doing isolation from the rest of family from their rumors ,_
You mean Mormans are told not to have that type behavior ___ Why is this type of abusive shunning going on and when its caught _ the presidency comes out __ claiming __ " we don't have control of what goes on in OUR Satilite churches __ this type shunning maybe not all the abuse of shunning depending how abusive _ both mentally and physically these folks are ___ its from Priesthood thinking they are God's __ which is what Smith and rest of the founders that claimed God gave them permission to have multiple wives and live as God's _
Having all these wives _ so the shunning still goes on because the Mormon church and all the break offs started from the basic principle that the men are God's __ and as God's allowed multiple wives including kid wives virgins __
If these priesthood men start shunning from request from women _and can't seem to handle request __
Because they hate women __ they think they are God heads __ are abuse their authority __ knowing they are abusing it _ comes with comments like we don't care __we don't care __ which is exactly the comments made when these folks are involved in shunning ___
I actually sympathize with the modern sections of the Community of Christ D&C, but to be a member you essentially have to believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet whose false revelations are finally being replaced by the truth after nearly 200 years. That is too much cognitive dissonance for me! I ended up leaving the Restoration movement entirely and joining the Episcopal Church. Theologically I side with the Community of Christ liberals on most issues but instead of leaving the Restoration behind as I did, they forced all the conservatives out and told them the religion they were raised in was bunk. So I have a particular dislike for the Community of Christ of which I used to be a member.
Think of it as theological evolution.
I really enjoyed this lecture, in England we were told about the beginning of the church by Joseph Smith1 and then about the church being reorganised but never told about Nauvoo and what happened there, so this was very interesting. I felt that the way you answered the questions that were asked was excellent also.
I'm not religious in any sense but I actually love the Community of Christ. They genuinely love with the love of God. A deep love for all living things.
I concur ❤
which god? they teach fake god like the LDS. they are just a water down version of mormons.
55:00 @John Hamer, could you or someone in your group add the historical membership numbers to Wikipedia? There is an article concerning the LDS historic growth, so it would be great if the CoC numbers were available as well.
i like your church im member of mormon church but i havent been to it in 11 yrs
I learned so much! Thank you
Ex-RLDS now Episcopalian here. Thanks for your lectures, this is fascinating stuff!
Just left this church, the RLDS , LOST ITS WAY ! Some time before they switched their name to community of christ in 2000 ! God has not changed his mind about the things that happened in Sodom and Gamora! He is against them ! The community is not if , you look at their new exultations !
now i started understand well the community of Christ church.
If there are multiple conflicting accounts of Joseph Smith first vision, are you saying that it’s not true? And if that’s the case where does the Community of Christ church receive its authority to do anything. The Mormon church believes that Joseph Smith is the prophet of God and that is where they get their authority as a church.
Joseph Smith gave several differing accounts of the First Vision. Ask yourself why. Also, he hid his Polygamy to everyone but his inner circle. Brigham Young was the first Mormon open about having 50+ wives. Unfortunately, LDS rarely know their history because they're taught the Disney version on Sundays. If you're a member of the LDS who believe Brigham Young was the correct successor, ask yourself why so many of Brighams ideas have been abandoned.
Were did the authority or REVELATION to start a sex cult come from ? __ or to add on the Bible coming these folks a Revelation and permission to do soo __and permission to have multiple wives __ they started an immoral sex cult _ Smiths and Brigham young goal was to grow as fast as possible so they wouldn't be shut down __the goal is not family oriented _ the goal was to spend time manipulating wives and getting the preg _ then running finding more _ having as kids as possible _ having 30 wives 56 kids _ how are they fulfilling any of the marriage commitments to any of the wives _ or being a father _ to any of the kids __ the goal was fast growth through missinturputaion and twisting the Bible and adding on __ Mormons all denominations still all based thier org religion on the Foundation of Smiths _ and others sex cult _ and use privileges by how many kids the members have how many males _ to further thier priesthood callings _it started as a sex cult and it still runs on the Foundation of Smith s3x cult _ the practice of shunning is also _ part of abuse of members started by Smith Sex cult it was implemented to threaten women or wives not to leave _ with threats of taking their kids if they leave _ possessions saying they won't see family-- and their are members still participating _ in that abuse _ it was started as a sex cult and although they gave up polygamy _ it's still run on the Foundation of a sex cult __
The shunned are called Apostates _ that termination originated from polygamy and meant and still means runaway sex slave __
That is ultimately one of the reasons I left the RLDS church. If all churches in the ecumenical movement are true, what was the point of the Restoration in the first place? Happily Episcopalian now. ❤
@@donatist59if you profess that Joseph Smith is a prophet then what do you think of the following:
Doctrine and Covenants 115
1 Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and also my servant Sidney Rigdon, and also my servant Hyrum Smith, and your counselors who are and shall be appointed hereafter;
2 And also unto you, my servant Edward Partridge, and his counselors;
3 And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world;
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
This is straightforward in eliminating which church has any validity that claims to believe Joseph Smith as a prophet.
@@andrewdurfee3896 Fortunately, I no longer believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet.
I'm going to listen to several of your lectures on LDS but I'm frankly stunned to know you're part of the reformLDS as I've watched around 12 of your videos and they are academic, thorough, progressive, open minded, historically accurate and not preachy what so ever. I understand that Centre Place in Canada has abandoned the Americentric views of the usually quite far right views of many LDS in the US but all the same my interactions with traditional LDS people here in Montreal were highly culty (this is coming from someone who left the Ordo Templi Orientis). The moment I'd get the attention of the younger of the two men going around trying to get people interested in what I was saying about my post-Thelemic renewed interest in Christianity which is non-dogmatic and takes a syncretic view of God based on many religions and traditions the older man cut us off and pulled him away. That was alarming and scary to me and I find myself thinking of the younger one's eyes years after to this day... how excited he was when I was describing my spiritual experiences and how I study Kabbalah and Hermeticism but have no dogmatic belief in either just use them as tools to investigate my connection to God which I view much in the same way Spinoza did (Nature = God, not a personified being but instead a totality filled with Mystery which science as well as religion and philosophy can help us connect to). I was describing how we each need to find our own path to find our connection to God and that its a deeply personal matter and that my views and his views need not be the same for us to chat and get along and appreciate the divine together. Somehow that was off limits and the younger man was pulled away, clearly not wanting to leave.... it really does still haunt me.
While I've left the OTO what I loved about it was all Masonic while what I didn't came from Crowley. I've been considering taking Blue Lodge Freemasonry for a few years now and know Smith and his family were Masons and there's some connection there... would love to hear more about that.
Thanks for this history
That was very helpful and interesting as someone who's looking into participating with your church. Thank you :)
It is shocking how far away the community of Christ RLDS has drifted away from the Christs restored church. It is as though they can’t distance themselves from Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon fast enough. This is very eye opening
Excellent history lesson! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you see this, perhaps you can comment. I recently came across several Platt Books for Stark County, Illinois, and various other Illinois locales, and saw a lot of land listed as owned by a Joseph Smith. Would this have been our Joseph Smith? This was from the period 1830-1850. Thanks! Randy
Genuine question. How did the Community of Christ settle on believing in the Trinity as does mainstream Christianity? Does your church not believe that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus as two seperate personages?
If the practice of polygamy was unacceptable in the Christian domain,is the same sex marriage proper enough to admit,recognise and promote in Christian domain?
Your communities, histories, traditions and legacies are fascinating. ✌🏾🇲🇦✋🏾
I'm a little offended that the LDS church is referred to as Brighamites.
Too bad we can't live like the people of 4 Nephi
"There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God."
I'm LDS, and I find this history fascinating. My fourth great-grandfather David Cluff had a carpentry shop across the street from the temple, so I'm told.
150 years ago, RLDS were the Josephites (as in JSIII) and the LDS were Brighamites. Then our moniker switched to 'Reorganites.' I can't say I'm fond of that term myself. .
@@brenwilliams6163 I never heard any of the restoration branches be referred to as -ites within the LDS culture
@@DesertPrimrose it's a pretty old-fashioned it's not used much these days except in historical contexts.
I watched the whole video. It seems to me as an outsider that by 1860, Brigham Young had succeeded, leading the majority of members to Salt Lake City where a thriving, growing, religious community was built from nothing. The State of Utah was well established and BY had proven himself as a leader and founding father. Enough said.
Meanwhile back east, before 1860, the minority was quarreling and splintered into several groups. There was no real growth or organisation until Joseph Smith III had assumed the throne in 1860 which had been waiting for him since he was 11. Was the only reason people didn't follow BY was because they didn't want to leave their farms and live in Utah?
The rest of the story of the RLDS is a bumpy one, including splits, a bankruptcy, mass defections in the 1990's because the new leader was not a Smith lineal descendant. I was shocked to learn it took 40 years to build the auditorium.
In comparison the LDS Church based in Utah became a proven success. It looks like Brigham Young was right.
By that yardstick, islam is even more right, isn't it?
Est il possible d'avoir ce film mais en français (traduit)s'il vous plaît merci
Awesomeness !!☺️
"Historicity doesn't matter" seems to be the creed. That's a leap of faith.
In the 1980's I worked for a financial institution making a number of home loans in an upscale lake development in Jackson County. Some of the RLDS members would put an observation deck at the top of their homes. I was told it was to see the returning of Jesus. But maybe that was not the real reason, people just say things. But I did see some of those decks way up high in big homes. I figured a lot of those people had some money.
This i admire you so much calling an over hour show breif
So many of the family names are still in vogue throughout the church
Fun fact: there are three congregations in independence and a few more scattered that still don’t allow women in the priesthood, but are still part of the church. I was raised RLDS and there are plenty of people that still believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon. I’m honestly confused why someone would stay in a church they think was founded by a liar.
What's your revelation on polyamorous relationships?
It's not the churchs responsibility to bring justice. God and his kingdom will do that.
Everybody in Independence seems to know why G. McMurray resigned but few will say it. Isn't it kind of weirdly immature to not be transparent and truthful? The reason was not fraud or a felony.
Who is this a picture of that he just put up? Is this Joseph smiths father ? Joseph Smith SR?
what was the reason then?
He was president when I finally did take my name off the rolls. Why did he resign?
I would like to add that I am a descendent of Alphas Cutler.
Je suis membre de la communauté du Christ
I feel there was some significant misinformation in this lecture. I also thought some comments regarding the LDS Church were inaccurate and disingenuous.
Can you be specific? We are not interested in your feelings, but in concrete factual objections.
Advent of jesus christ happened in South Korea .
j s 3 was a mason? the hidden hand gives him up!
Just a heap of man-made religion and false revelations.
A whole lot of firsts. Guess it works until you run out of stuff to sell. Keep drawing those retirement checks.
Same sex marriage??
I'm sorry but the more l listen to the history of the Mormon church and any of it's offspring the more l shake my head. I have always found people that say they are filled with the spirit or those who claim to get it straight from God the most disconcerting of people. What did they think they were going to give to the Indians? You cannot transmit what you do not have. What churches like this are selling is emotionalism dressed up as spiraltualism. It's not the power of God they feel . It is there emotions being stirred up when they are empty and grasping for meaning. I noticed in the lecture you did on the movement up to the death of its head scam artist you failed to mention counterfeiting a lot of counterfeiting and a lot of poisonings of members. Pretty bad man it's a sad story.
Your organization obviously does not teach the Bible. The ‘revelations’ add are not found in the Bible. In the Bible it says you cannot add to or take away from it.
The Bible has been translated and edited so many times. There are many that a “few men” deemed not worthy of the canon. Many that were earlier Christian writings. There is so much we don’t know.
The verse you're referring to is specifically talking about the Book of Revelation, not the Bible. The Bible, as we know it today, did not exist when that statement was made.
It actually says that at the end of Genesis. Should the rest of the Bible be thrown away?
The gospels are the only part of the Bible that make any sense to me. The rest is medieval reinterpretation of gospel or Old Testament which is mostly ancient stories from Mesopotamia and Egypt reinterpreted by Hebrew scholars over time. Even the gospels as John has astutely taught were a compilation of oral history compiled the century after the time of Jeshua.
Joseph Smith didn't wrote the BOM while in Jail
He was in jail because of slave plantation camp of women he had
American was abolishing slavery Smith took his women slaves to
A slave state Illinois
He was running around out of the safe zone picking up more women slaves including young girls he got arrested
While in jail he wrote the BOM to claim God told him to have wives then added his dysfunctional pedifile views writting about God giving him premission to be a pedifile and org a sex slave cult
Then he claimed he was married to them it was after he was murdered for his garbage that the women and girls left including Emma
Illinose was a slave state thats why Joseph' Smith ran with his women and girl slaves to as America was ending slavery in all states Smith married all of them along with male followers
Then claimed they were wives and he wouldn't let the, go he was killed and then the women
What's the Restorationn church doing let me guess restoring smiths sex slave camp
Here got some volunteers women to be enslaved caroyn greene shannon greene and dede Dare has a desire to enslaved and forced to pop out for any loves babies
Dede has volunteered that she's a virtuous volunteer calling herself a women of God pure and does believe in birthcontrol abortion for rape or incest or plan because she's claims she's a women of god. And Added Got It
The first two volunteers they questionable volunteers because of lack of education and been denied acess to mental health meds
The latter volinteer dede claims she's told by god to volunteer she's claims she's educated and dosent have any mental health issues and says god told her which a red flag 🚩in itself
Dede likes to dictate what others should do they should forced to pop babies if raped or incest and not access to plan b or abortion because you she's a virtuous women. Or wait maybe she's a bully
Any way she volunteered her services to be forced to pop out babies for others who love kids to take off with she comes with a pocket full of THC gummy bears cadies so to ease any pain. Every Got It. She wants to sure everybody gets it
We one of froend volunteering to make dede does run plan b or abortions stated he will take outside to beat those that are for abortion
And wants to volunteer to vonouble beat up raped molested and be virtuous and not appeared abortions cause according to her exceptional self procla8med brain it's agaist the civil right for egg nit be be allowed to drop in the Uterous and prevent that by taking plan b
And it'd against the civil to seek abortion the women need to be forced to have the baby and Gove it up for adoption forced medical care forced to be assaulted by blood draws and assaulted during delivery because it's against the civil
Rights of the fetus to have abortion and agaist the civil rights of egg to take a plan b to prevent it from attaching to the uterus
Here's red Flagg
I didn't hear her say rape was a sin and against the civil
Rights of the women or that child molestation was against the civil of the child and sin
I didn't hear that from the volunteering watch kids with her pockets full of gummy saying how she wants to build into this hughe cult is the word with Bizzare teachings with threats made Got It
JESUS CHIRST IS THE SABBATH JESUS CHIRST IS THE ONLY LIVING GOD CALL ISRAEL CALL CHRIST CALL MESSIAH CALL SALVATION CALL AMEN CALL FLESH CALL MY LORD CALL GOD NAME JESUS CALL TRINITY = WE ARE THE REAL JEWS CALL CHRISTIAN = CHILD OF GOD = JESUS CHIRST IS THE KING OF THE JEWS = ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY = GOD GOVERNMENT CALL VATICAN HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC = GOD TRUE CHURCH
Once you accost LGBT and affirm it that's where you are wrong. Sorry
No they never did _ it started as a sex cult _ multiple wives _ the men of these wives were gone _ to find wives _ in order for that to work the women were volunteering to have more wives to also be married.too they had sex with each other as well _ they never discriminated against gay women _ nor do they shun gays __
They didn't ask the women if they were gay when Smith manipulated them to his s3x camp__
I am not sure how you mean "accost", but if the Church accepts... and ENCOURAGES deviant and unhealthy physical practices, you have slipped over the edge. It seems that practices known to breed disease (both physical and psychological), should be included in the Word of Wisdom. How many times does the Lord have to provide examples of what happens to both heterosexuals and homosexuals when sex is lowered to the level of (some) animals.
@@zelphx Would you include or exclude Joseph Smith when he "married" and slept with 30+ women / underage girls?