I like that she was a bat. It really sold the image that she was like a vampire, sucking the life out of people by tearing down their self-esteem, or converting them to be like her
@@constantdisappointment5658 although it makes it sad for bat fans, who want those animals to get out of that negative stigma and be seen as the wonderful creatures they are
She was NOT just "a tiny bit clingy", she was *very* clingy. If you watch the show, she was becoming obsessive over Muriel. This isn't her fault, though. Muriel's attitude towards Bertie, being very nonchalant and dismissive, made Bertie want to do more to win over her affection. Muriel's toxicity created a clingy Bertie.
I had an experience like this, I refused to change my personal style for this individual but another friend of mine caved into the pressure and then the individual told everyone that she was a stalker. The individual also cut me off the soonest opportunity they got. There was just no winning.
@@Light-ro5bp No it's just Muriel trying to make Bertie feel guilty and ashamed so she doesn't have to take responsibility for the fact SHE'S the one who made Bertie goth in the first place.
It may have not started off like that but it has devolved to this nowadays. Why do you think the word "poser" exists and is always used. Maybe it's just kids who do this because they are so immature.
@@UwU-gm6ut Yea, because goth has devolved from a sub culture to an aesthetic. Nothing wrong with an aesthetic but like people treat like wearing black lipstick makes you goth and the star of the 90s Tim Burton movie. This is the same for other aesthetics and style. They came from something unique and beautiful to dumbasses that do it because they wanna be the counter culture of a mainstream but aren't comfortable with going to alt so they stay in the lightest and most mainstream part of the spectrum.
Notice how Muriel had to find someone vulnerable and manipulate them into being her friend so she had someone to socialize with when she and Jessica weren't talking. Then, when no longer needing said vulnerable person, she just abandons them. Does it bring a particular parasitic creature to mind?
The saddest part to me is when Muriel kissed Bertie, Bertie was really into her in so many ways. And Muriel was so so toxic and manipulative. Bertie was convinced she meant something special to her and that’s the saddest part to me
@@miiirky1904 I still wonder if Bertie is actually bi or pan and was just so caught up in the emotions of being with Muriel that she thought she was into it.
I had two friends just like Muriel as a teenager. The once doxxed me on a fanfiction site because I wrote a story that was *barely* popular. They wrote about my abusive parents and how people needed to call my house and tell them that I'm on the internet. Thankfully my parents didn't pay the phone bill lol. It took me years to heal, even longer recognize that they were my first abusive relationship outside of my family. I'm not here to brag about how shitty their lives turned out, but I am surrounded by people who never made me question if I'm safe or loved. All I hope for is if anyone comes across this comment and feels like their friends don't want everything that's best for you, they are not your friends. You will find people who don't think you're too much, too chatty, too clingy, too loud, to the people you are meant to be with, you are enough.
@@vienna-mf8xb I have tried a dozen times since yesterday to give you a response that isn't a novel about how happy I am. I even wrote draft about all the loneliness and anguish I had to endure just to find this happiness and the series of unfortunate events that lead me to the man who taught me that I was always worthy of love and safety. If I may put it simply. I am healing, I am safe, I am loved, and I am enough.
I think one of the saddest things about Muriel was she never grew past this kind of behavior. Having your bad traits run rampant as a teen sucks, but not learning from your mistakes and being able to recognize bad behavior you took part in sucks way, way worse, because at that point its harder to break behavior patterns.
What hurts me is that Bertie still feels bad about this, she still thinks she was the problem even though it’s so clear Muriel was just a bad friend. Just makes me think how many situations you grow up to feel guilty about that we’re never even your fault in the first place. Muriel’s moved on but Bertie is still hurt by her behavior in the past. It really sucks
Exactly man, plus she pure pressured her into doing it. Yes berdie now likes being goth because she know you like it. It's called finding common interests. Maybe berdie didn't know what goth was before she met u, ever think of that?
I love how at first Muriel pushes her own identity onto Bertie and loves her for adopting her own characteristics, but then when she needs a punching bag suddenly Bertie acting just like her to impress her is disgusting and creepy.
Bertie did start crossing the line a little, though. It makes sense that adult Bertie blames herself later. But they were both culpable, and Muriel did start it. It doesn't mean she deserved Bertie spying on her and following her, but it also doesn't make her right.
I know we all dislike Muriel but... I think we should be a little more understanding of her. Tuca's "you were dealing with being assaulted and nobody knowing how to handle it AND your big sloppy teenager hormones and feelings" speech just as easily applies to Muriel, who said she also dealt with something similar. She IS a bad friend, like none of what she did was okay, and she doesn't seem to have experienced a ton of personal growth in the way Bertie has, but I still... Kinda can't help but feel bad for her. She was a *teenager* dealing with the same kind of issues as Bertie, and I think where Bertie had a tendency to get attached very easily (with Muriel's obvious encouragement, and clear lack of support from family and other peers, of course), Muriel seems to swing in the opposite direction where she bails when things get too intense. It's not uncommon for SA victims, especially those who are younger, to struggle with intimacy issues. I definitely didn't like Muriel when I first saw this episode either, and I still don't *really* like her, but I still can't help but feel sympathetic to her.
She definitely is another victim in her own right, and this was when she was a teenager, but it’s hard to tell if she’s made much growth as an adult considering that movie was about her considering her toddler son a leech
@@frootsnacc6790 Yeah what she did is wrong and she is horrible individual but the assault she went through is not something she deserve. Also people who being abused, assault not all of them turn up being kind some end up being horrible people
Idk, goths have the right to judge people on their music. Same as punks and metalheads and emos, they're all music subcultures. If you don't listen to the music or know the history, you shouldn't label yourself as whatever subculture.
@@Domebuddy preach my old school goth older sis is now a metalhead karen with no friends because she still judges everyone. she in fact talks shit about these peace loving hippie new goths frequently. imo it's super fucking shallow to get so worked up about clothing and music and what others wear and listen. my childhood friend was a goth too and she would not hang out with me if I said a word about rap.. like sorry i don't listen to one genre only. i like that teens now aren't throwing those kinda stupid hissyfits anymore and wear things more freely.
I may not know the different kinds of goth but I've seen em wear pink, red, blue, orange and white along with black so telling someone how to be goth isn't a very goth thing to do no?
Muriel is just that type of person, one who pastes their style on others, Bertie and even her own child. Then she goes and complains about them being weird and clingy when I'm sure she is the one making them that way cuz of her own issues she probably has going on in her life.
I hate it when ppl gatekeep things like this. You can like dressing and being goth while also like non traditional goth things. The whole point of alt fashion is to be different, unique and, most importantly, UNAPOLOGETICALLY YOURSELF. Muriel is the one who's not goth. Lowkey seems like she dresses and acts that way to seem cool imo
I’m 18 and have been on the alt side since I was 12. My favorite color is yellow and I like watching mean girls. Nobody’s style represents their entire personality
I think what you have to remember about the generation before you was that we didn't really mix styles the way kids do now. Goths couldn't like pink, jocks didn't watch anime, cool girls didn't play video games, we stuck to Our Thing. It was sort of annoying, really. You kids today don't realize how lucky you are that you have less of that.
Is it better to have a fake friend, to have felt kinship only to have it viciously ripped away, or to have never experienced friendship at all? I guess I relate to Bertie's regret in friendships that way.
I knew someone just like Muriel a few years back. She would swing from person to person and suck them in chew them up and spit them out. I had the misfortune of living which said person for a few months and it was traumatising to say the least. This was about 9 years ago and it still haunts me to this day 🙃
Its funny how my friend really likes this character and she turned out to be a bad friend. Also just because your favorite coloir is pink, does not mean you arent goth, or even if you like romcoms and boy bands. I like a large range of things that i can't just be called a goth, punk or nerd or cottage core fan. Remember people, you do you.
@@luciddreaming4478 that was purposefully censored. Also it’s kinda weird to be that one person and correct someone for some comment online. Just saying. 😟
this episode got me into tuca and bertie because of how painfully real bertie’s situation was for me. i got so clingy with my old friend in middle school that the school council had to get involved 💀
A reminder that Muriel's leach movie was actually about her own infant child. Muriel was always supposed to be a hypocrite and terrible. If anything I always thought she was supposed to be the real leach feeding off of Bertie's admeration.
It’s odd to see that people think goth is a fashion thing in these comments. It’s about the music, mainly. It doesn’t matter what you look like or what else you enjoy as long as you partake in our music based subculture even a little bit.
I was thinking this too. It's pretty sad that punk and goth and emo and grunge have all devolved into being perceived as styles. It is interesting, society sees how a subculture looks, and that is the only thing they take from it because they don't talk to them and observe their interests. Metalhead seems like it may be next, but I'm not sure the metalheads will ever allow that to happen with the way they gatekeep💀
I think you're making the same mistake as those people who think that Goth is only about fashion. It's not just about fashion or music. It's about the whole culture. It's abl pout having a more morbid understanding of the world, And instead of hating yourself for enjoying things that are morbid, accepting it. Otherwise why would people cite things like the Adams family or Edgar Allan Poe as being Gothic feeling when that has nothing to do with music and both existed long before Gothic music did? What about Gothic Lolita which has little to do with the music subculture as it has a far more Japanese influence, or neon goths who don' usually listen to that kind of music as they tend to prefer electro, or bubble goths who like pop music or steampunk goths who tend to obsess over the victorian era and like acoustic music with heavy drums or gothic metal where people will question if they're a goth or metalhead. And there's people who say they're gothic because they love Gothic literature like Frankenstein Dracula and modern comics like JTHM and Lenore. Gothic literature of course has been around longer than Gothic rock. If it was solely music then Goth would have died out long ago since it's so rare to hear new Gothic bands. Goths can't even agree for the most part on what Gothic music even is. Is it specifically Gothic rock? And what if other genre' was like Gothic electro, Goth pop, goth metal, gothic punkrock and so many other genre's inspired by gothic culture? About the only thing most of them can agree on is that Bela Lagosi's dead is a goth song and then usually argue about other music. Someone told me Voltaire can't be gothic music because he teases the subculture, and yet his musical inspiration is clearly gothic, and clearly makes fun in a way that's lovingly done. What about people who like Gothic rock and yet don't identify as Goth because they feel no attachment to other parts of the sub culture showing there more to it to them than just liking some music? I think Goth has evolved to be more about the feeling of goth than anything specific you can point to, and people like you are no different than people who say you're not goth if you don't wear certain clothing. You're still just being a gatekeeper when it comes down to it ignoring everything other than a narrow view of the culture, while ignoring that there's so much to the Gothic subculture besides just music.
Lol that ship sailed a long time ago. The kids give zero fucks about the music and how goth started. It's best to just accept this and not let it upset you too much.
@@sardonicus1739 I agree! I identify as a goth, and I don't listen to the music as much as other goths, but I love Edgar Allen Poe, the aforementioned Leone and other parts of "gothic" media. I'm more of a punk in terms of music, actually (so I guess I'm a little bit of both). I don't think goth should be defined by music or fashion alone.
Pro tip, if your friends are shoplifting, or encouraging you to shoplift. LEAVE. NOW. I don't mean shoplifting shit you need to survive, I mean stuff like chokers or bracelets that are six bucks. All of the friends I've had that have shoplifted and have encouraged me to, I had to leave because they were very toxic and abusive in the end. (One of them even sa'd me but that's not related). Same goes for other friends I've had that have been friends with shoplifters..
I really dont understand how bertie is a stalker here when she was just trying to understand why someone who claimed to be her friend all of a sudden stopped wanting to hang out with her. Muriel literally dressed bertie. Muriel only saw her as a replacement and made bertie her scape goat.
Yeah honestly. I've seen the episode twice, and while Bertie might've been a bit intense, I wouldn't call her obsessive or even a stalker. She only started acting like that later in the episode because Muriel started pushing her away without explanation.
You can still like the goth style while liking that stuff too 💀 I literally love romance story’s and wearing pink pastel outfits but I also love horror and wearing a gothic style
Muriel was, I suspect, jealous of Bertie for winning gothiest. It was part (not whole) of why she disposed of her. She pressured her into her subculture gradually against her will and changed her, then complained she wasn't "authentic". Honest to God, I and I think others have had toxic friends like Muriel in highschool.
I had a fried like muriel, I desperately wanted to have someone to speak about art with and she was there. Greatest mistake I made was letting her into my life and messing up my mental health. She was so toxic and so was her family, too bad at that time my family was a little toxic too and never really saw what was happening to me.
hearing the sucking sound in the fades. Literal vampire bat taking more and more of you until you are comfortably reliant on them: when you throw you away, you feel drained of everything you once were. You feel lost and mourn them despite them taking so much.
Muriel was the one who encouraged her to changer her style to fit in with her then turned on her and called her a fake after she did, literally giving me so many flashbacks to my adolescence, people who know you're desperate to find a friend then after they change you they turn on you
I understood that Muriel was being manipulative to Bertie at her most vulnerable state. Yes its wrong to do but I also understood her after She and Bertie shared a kiss, Having someone obsessed with you is toxic and she find it uncomfortable when Bertie drew her and herself in a coffin like they're a couple. Both are in the wrong; Muriel's Manipulation and Bertie's Obsession. I think at One Point, She did find Bertie to be fun to hang out and showed her a new side to herself but she didn't think that it would go too far as to why she called Bertie a Stalker cause of the obsession Bertie had to Muriel! When things are heated up, we tend to say things we don't mean and to get Bertie to stop stalking her, she had to say that cause it got to its breaking point At the end of the Episode, She states that the movie wasn't even about her, meaning that she got over Bertie's obsessed antics and moved on. She has a Son now, she's a movie director. She doesn't seem to be affected by the past unlike Bertie.
They make you do something that you wouldn't do normally. Then they know what they did was wrong so they resent you for going along with it. They hate you because they hate themselves and blame you for loving them. Muriel made a spitting image of herself to abuse so she didn't have to actually confront herself. She could just take out her hatred of herself on someone else. Just a personal life sort of thing I've heard from people with BPD or NPD. Or she just found a temporary replacement for the friend she preferred and when she was done with Bertie just discarded her. That would be if I were to dehumanize her and just go with what the show tells us what happened from Bertie's perspective
I didn't realize that Muriel was a bad friend until reading the comments even though I watched the whole series. It makes sense why I was manipulated so easily in the past...
You know it sucks when, you’re a goth and people think that you’re not one just because you so happen to like other things. :-/ that’s kinda stupid goths we’re all about not following the status quote and just doing as they felt like. Muriel was just a bitch.
I have never been in any of the situations Bertie themed episodes have talk about but I can still tell what the show is trying to imply and that's a great thing. Shows being able to not only connect with people who've been in this situation but accurately show a graph of what the situation looks like for the people who don't know, is something most shows can't begin to grasp. This show manages to make jokes that aren't your normal "Haha Women has periods, and like to tear eachother down haha" jokes, when certain sexual jokes that are uncomfortable are said the characters don't just laugh it off, they show clear discomfort. This show has shown many sides to many stories that adult shows (Especially women based ones) refuse to touch on.
Knew a few people like Muriel in highschool. Bought into goth as a replica personality rather than actually become their own person. From what I've seen they still dress exactly like Muriel does at the end of the episode, and act like her too. If you truly love this stuff enough to dress to the nines every day, more power to you. And I get it when teenagers buy into the idea that consuming the "right" stuff us the same as having a personality. It just icks me out when I see grown-ass people still funneling themselves to such a two-dimensional template and being, like, so actively consumerist about their whole entire identity. And again, people that like this stuff, and even/especially the people that genuinely like it enough to make it a big part of their identity are chill. The difference is why they do it.
To be clear - if you genuinely enjoy it, I ain't here to yuck your yum. It's people like Muriel - the gatekeepers, the elitists, the people insecure enough to literally consider their fashion/aesthetic sense to be a suitable substitute for a personality and project it by negging people that don't "get it" as much as they do - that piss me off.
Muriel is a poser. You can be goth and still like boy bands, pink, and rom coms. Like what you like! Trying too hard to check mark all the boxes to fit a certain image is lame.
"just a hardcore barnacle on Muriel's ass" no bertie you were responding to trauma just like her bertie repressed so much of herself after getting hurt by her.
For real. Like I genuienly don't think that Bertie at the start was being 'obsessive' or 'clingy' maybe a bit intense sure, but she only started acting out when Muriel abandoned her.
0:43 idk why im watching this but this reminds me whenever my sister gets like any criticism at all for doing illegal shit like this she calls me a stalker or creep :/
Muriel sucks, worst part is that judging by when they meet in the present Muriel is still an awful person. I mean what kind of mom makes a movie about leeches, that's actually a metaphor for their own child? Not to mention that she kind of shoos the kid away.
Who says goths can't like boy bands? I consider myself a bit of goth/emo/alt ...it's more about dressing how I feel , not my interests, I don't hang out in cemeteries or even wear thick dark makeup, I'm just enjoying life as it comes
i had a friend like muriel, how sad it would be if i wouldn't look at her as the "pitty girl who wanted attention" danm i even think what if she had another friend to toy her as she wanted>:(
It’s hard to meet real friends when these type of people in general are everywhere So glad Berdie took her best goth title for being a jerk Poetic justice for berdie 😂
As a person who likes goth. I still have colored clothes because I couldn’t afford a lot. But really, liking goth is subjective. I like goth for the aesthetic, but my music taste is more on soft. I wanna say fuck Muriel
this was me with my “best friend” like 3-4 years ago. now i thankfully dress my own ways, sorta. still want to fit in really bad with people i label “cool” but i rlly shouodnt.
@@DoormanSoorman single white female is a movie where a girl starts out as your friend, and she copies your style so you both match, and it's cute at first, until she starts obsessing with you and tries to be you and takes over your identity.
But the problem is that SHE pushed Bertie into copying her. She molding her into what she saw as a true Goth and then, when she proved to be more popular than her, she threw her to the dogs. Her freak out is because of her own toxic actions.
![More Speckle Best Boy Compilation [Tuca & Bertie S2]](/img/n.gif)
the way bertie says "im goth" breaks my heart. It reminds me of myself to try and fit in with other friends just like muriel.
Sad that so many communities can be so fussy at times
Yup they where the most judgemental douche bags around. And they would stereotype everyone else... gosh.
Yeah.. i really feel this too.. its pretty sad.. im glad i cab finally be myself
@@traption4617 Isn't stereotyping towards goths is being judgemental?
@@traption4617 it’s kinda weird to bring up stereotyping when you’re doing it rn???
I love Muriel's design, really sad that that she was that bad...
I like that she was a bat. It really sold the image that she was like a vampire, sucking the life out of people by tearing down their self-esteem, or converting them to be like her
@@constantdisappointment5658 I hadn't thought of it that way, it's a very interesting interpretation
@@constantdisappointment5658 I also think it was because it’s the perfect flying animal to fit a horror movie director.
@@Guyro3278
Also, bats are just really cool animals
@@constantdisappointment5658 although it makes it sad for bat fans, who want those animals to get out of that negative stigma and be seen as the wonderful creatures they are
while Bertie was indeed just a tiny bit clingy and pretentious, Muriel was straight up toxic
She was NOT just "a tiny bit clingy", she was *very* clingy. If you watch the show, she was becoming obsessive over Muriel. This isn't her fault, though. Muriel's attitude towards Bertie, being very nonchalant and dismissive, made Bertie want to do more to win over her affection. Muriel's toxicity created a clingy Bertie.
@@ghostville4857 yes, pretty much
@@ghostville4857 yeah. Muriel told her they can be twins so it's not Bertie's fault.
@@haven_lady675 yeah she 100% used her & led her on
@@ghostville4857 How did you just sum up a whole dramatic episode in a few sentences?
She encourages her to dress like her and then calls her a stalker when people think she looks more goth.
It's like that in real life too
Sadly some people are like this
Fr
Wasn’t that because Bertie actually stalked her in the episode? I thought it was meaning to say that Muriel actually noticed her at the mall
I had an experience like this, I refused to change my personal style for this individual but another friend of mine caved into the pressure and then the individual told everyone that she was a stalker. The individual also cut me off the soonest opportunity they got. There was just no winning.
@@Light-ro5bp No it's just Muriel trying to make Bertie feel guilty and ashamed so she doesn't have to take responsibility for the fact SHE'S the one who made Bertie goth in the first place.
Gatekeeping being goth is literally the antithesis of being goth. Muriel is the real poser here, real goths dont give a fuck who is "more goth".
It may have not started off like that but it has devolved to this nowadays. Why do you think the word "poser" exists and is always used. Maybe it's just kids who do this because they are so immature.
Say that to the goth kids from South Park.
Most goths I know are the most gatekeepy and judgmental people I’ve ever met.
@@UwU-gm6ut Yea, because goth has devolved from a sub culture to an aesthetic. Nothing wrong with an aesthetic but like people treat like wearing black lipstick makes you goth and the star of the 90s Tim Burton movie. This is the same for other aesthetics and style. They came from something unique and beautiful to dumbasses that do it because they wanna be the counter culture of a mainstream but aren't comfortable with going to alt so they stay in the lightest and most mainstream part of the spectrum.
@@MOZER405 south part should never be used as a realistic reflection of real life to be fair haha
Notice how Muriel had to find someone vulnerable and manipulate them into being her friend so she had someone to socialize with when she and Jessica weren't talking. Then, when no longer needing said vulnerable person, she just abandons them. Does it bring a particular parasitic creature to mind?
Who?
Bojack
Mr.Penutbutter
Leech?
Probably bats.
Who says Goths can’t like pink?
Muriel the gatekeeper.
pastel goths 💗
Bro there's a thing called pastel goths if she was so goth she would have known
Draculaura didn't goth in pink for Muriel to dismiss pink in goth
They're called pastel goths
The saddest part to me is when Muriel kissed Bertie, Bertie was really into her in so many ways. And Muriel was so so toxic and manipulative. Bertie was convinced she meant something special to her and that’s the saddest part to me
Muriel was there when she needed her the most when her friends were shitty and her parents were neglectful. But Muriel only made her trauma worse.
@@Guyro3278 YES.
I think Muriel kissed Bertie to scared her away, because she didn't wanted her to be with her anymore, but poor Bertie thought otherwise.
@@miiirky1904 that makes me so so much more sad
@@miiirky1904 I still wonder if Bertie is actually bi or pan and was just so caught up in the emotions of being with Muriel that she thought she was into it.
She didn’t want a friend she wanted a doll. Something to play with and when she got bored she through her “doll” away
Just something to fill the void with Jessica, but when Jessica came back she ditched her.
@@Guyro3278 I swear she would have used any excuse to get rid of Bertie
"goths can't wear pink!"
Pastel goths : am I a joke to you?
At this point, yes. There was a very limited view of goth and what it meant.
I mean, being goth was about the music, so honestly you can dress however you want. Mostly Elitists that say you cant wear a certain colour n sh*t
I had two friends just like Muriel as a teenager. The once doxxed me on a fanfiction site because I wrote a story that was *barely* popular. They wrote about my abusive parents and how people needed to call my house and tell them that I'm on the internet. Thankfully my parents didn't pay the phone bill lol.
It took me years to heal, even longer recognize that they were my first abusive relationship outside of my family. I'm not here to brag about how shitty their lives turned out, but I am surrounded by people who never made me question if I'm safe or loved. All I hope for is if anyone comes across this comment and feels like their friends don't want everything that's best for you, they are not your friends. You will find people who don't think you're too much, too chatty, too clingy, too loud, to the people you are meant to be with, you are enough.
That' is so sweet dude.How are you now?
thank you for saying this
ew what the fuck? thats horrible, im glad you moved past those people. absolutely nobody deserves to be treated like that
That's terrible, I hope you're good now
Like Tuca would said "those friends were b1tches"
@@vienna-mf8xb I have tried a dozen times since yesterday to give you a response that isn't a novel about how happy I am. I even wrote draft about all the loneliness and anguish I had to endure just to find this happiness and the series of unfortunate events that lead me to the man who taught me that I was always worthy of love and safety.
If I may put it simply. I am healing, I am safe, I am loved, and I am enough.
So glad Bertie met Tuca, Muriel not should have betrayed her like this. Dumb teen brains.
I got so mad when she said,”I only let you hung around because I felt bad” hate people like that man
SHE made bertie goth, SHE pressured her into it, SHE made them think they were best friends, then she just pulled the rug and for what
exactly
So she could have something to do for a few weeks
It seems to be commen thing with teens. Its messed up.
Muriel: *encourages Bertie to be goth*
Bertie: *becomes goth*
Muriel: >:(
I like how Muriel gets mad at her for becoming goth...even though she made her steal the clothes and turned her goth against her will
I think one of the saddest things about Muriel was she never grew past this kind of behavior. Having your bad traits run rampant as a teen sucks, but not learning from your mistakes and being able to recognize bad behavior you took part in sucks way, way worse, because at that point its harder to break behavior patterns.
She used Berti because her old friend stopped talking to her so she adopted Bertie as a stand in until her old friend started talking to her again
Part of me feels like she only said that because Bertie became clingy/to dump her (obvs not an excuse tho)
What hurts me is that Bertie still feels bad about this, she still thinks she was the problem even though it’s so clear Muriel was just a bad friend. Just makes me think how many situations you grow up to feel guilty about that we’re never even your fault in the first place. Muriel’s moved on but Bertie is still hurt by her behavior in the past. It really sucks
she covered her whole beak in lipstick-
I guess the whole thing is technically her lips
I noticed that too
Exactly man, plus she pure pressured her into doing it. Yes berdie now likes being goth because she know you like it. It's called finding common interests. Maybe berdie didn't know what goth was before she met u, ever think of that?
Imitation is also a form of flattery, she thought goth was cool and liked it.
Plus even if Bertie admittedly was getting a little clingy/copying a bit too much Muriel could’ve definitely set boundaries better
I love how at first Muriel pushes her own identity onto Bertie and loves her for adopting her own characteristics, but then when she needs a punching bag suddenly Bertie acting just like her to impress her is disgusting and creepy.
Bertie did start crossing the line a little, though. It makes sense that adult Bertie blames herself later. But they were both culpable, and Muriel did start it. It doesn't mean she deserved Bertie spying on her and following her, but it also doesn't make her right.
I know we all dislike Muriel but... I think we should be a little more understanding of her. Tuca's "you were dealing with being assaulted and nobody knowing how to handle it AND your big sloppy teenager hormones and feelings" speech just as easily applies to Muriel, who said she also dealt with something similar. She IS a bad friend, like none of what she did was okay, and she doesn't seem to have experienced a ton of personal growth in the way Bertie has, but I still... Kinda can't help but feel bad for her. She was a *teenager* dealing with the same kind of issues as Bertie, and I think where Bertie had a tendency to get attached very easily (with Muriel's obvious encouragement, and clear lack of support from family and other peers, of course), Muriel seems to swing in the opposite direction where she bails when things get too intense. It's not uncommon for SA victims, especially those who are younger, to struggle with intimacy issues. I definitely didn't like Muriel when I first saw this episode either, and I still don't *really* like her, but I still can't help but feel sympathetic to her.
Since muriel is a not the perfect victim people gonna treat her very differently
She definitely is another victim in her own right, and this was when she was a teenager, but it’s hard to tell if she’s made much growth as an adult considering that movie was about her considering her toddler son a leech
@@frootsnacc6790 Yeah what she did is wrong and she is horrible individual but the assault she went through is not something she deserve. Also people who being abused, assault not all of them turn up being kind some end up being horrible people
Muriel never was a true goth.
Goths don't judge people by their tastes.
back in my day goths were goths entirely because they were judging everyone.
Idk, goths have the right to judge people on their music. Same as punks and metalheads and emos, they're all music subcultures. If you don't listen to the music or know the history, you shouldn't label yourself as whatever subculture.
@@Domebuddy preach my old school goth older sis is now a metalhead karen with no friends because she still judges everyone. she in fact talks shit about these peace loving hippie new goths frequently. imo it's super fucking shallow to get so worked up about clothing and music and what others wear and listen. my childhood friend was a goth too and she would not hang out with me if I said a word about rap.. like sorry i don't listen to one genre only. i like that teens now aren't throwing those kinda stupid hissyfits anymore and wear things more freely.
@@fungustheclown666 sounds lame and petty
@@bobbobbo5278 the beauty is that you don't have to be one. 🤷♀️
I love the therapist wearing a beanie that says therapy. It's just- yes.
I think by hoddie you mean beanie? But yeah, it’s just- yes.
@@JasminMiettunen Yes, that is what I meant. Stupid Samsung autocorrect
I may not know the different kinds of goth but I've seen em wear pink, red, blue, orange and white along with black so telling someone how to be goth isn't a very goth thing to do no?
Right. Counter culture folks try to be understanding
Muriel is just that type of person, one who pastes their style on others, Bertie and even her own child. Then she goes and complains about them being weird and clingy when I'm sure she is the one making them that way cuz of her own issues she probably has going on in her life.
I hate it when ppl gatekeep things like this. You can like dressing and being goth while also like non traditional goth things. The whole point of alt fashion is to be different, unique and, most importantly, UNAPOLOGETICALLY YOURSELF. Muriel is the one who's not goth. Lowkey seems like she dresses and acts that way to seem cool imo
I’m 18 and have been on the alt side since I was 12. My favorite color is yellow and I like watching mean girls. Nobody’s style represents their entire personality
I think what you have to remember about the generation before you was that we didn't really mix styles the way kids do now. Goths couldn't like pink, jocks didn't watch anime, cool girls didn't play video games, we stuck to Our Thing. It was sort of annoying, really. You kids today don't realize how lucky you are that you have less of that.
I guess that's why Muriel is a bat, hence being a blood sucker...
Is it better to have a fake friend, to have felt kinship only to have it viciously ripped away, or to have never experienced friendship at all? I guess I relate to Bertie's regret in friendships that way.
I knew someone just like Muriel a few years back. She would swing from person to person and suck them in chew them up and spit them out. I had the misfortune of living which said person for a few months and it was traumatising to say the least. This was about 9 years ago and it still haunts me to this day 🙃
I hate Muriel the gatekeeper's personality, but I love her design so much 😭 she looks so cute.
Its funny how my friend really likes this character and she turned out to be a bad friend.
Also just because your favorite coloir is pink, does not mean you arent goth, or even if you like romcoms and boy bands.
I like a large range of things that i can't just be called a goth, punk or nerd or cottage core fan. Remember people, you do you.
The bits where it gets dark is hard hitting to some if you remember Bertie’s tr@um@.
*trauma
@@luciddreaming4478 that was purposefully censored. Also it’s kinda weird to be that one person and correct someone for some comment online. Just saying. 😟
@@puppydogs68 it’s not weird to correct someone’s comment, because misspellings can lead to misunderstandings, but yeah, that was intentional
@@puppydogs68 Yeah and it's dumb that it was censored.
its heart breaking to watch this especially as a goth
this episode got me into tuca and bertie because of how painfully real bertie’s situation was for me. i got so clingy with my old friend in middle school that the school council had to get involved 💀
A reminder that Muriel's leach movie was actually about her own infant child. Muriel was always supposed to be a hypocrite and terrible. If anything I always thought she was supposed to be the real leach feeding off of Bertie's admeration.
It’s odd to see that people think goth is a fashion thing in these comments. It’s about the music, mainly. It doesn’t matter what you look like or what else you enjoy as long as you partake in our music based subculture even a little bit.
...what the hell are you talking about?
I was thinking this too. It's pretty sad that punk and goth and emo and grunge have all devolved into being perceived as styles. It is interesting, society sees how a subculture looks, and that is the only thing they take from it because they don't talk to them and observe their interests. Metalhead seems like it may be next, but I'm not sure the metalheads will ever allow that to happen with the way they gatekeep💀
I think you're making the same mistake as those people who think that Goth is only about fashion. It's not just about fashion or music. It's about the whole culture. It's abl pout having a more morbid understanding of the world, And instead of hating yourself for enjoying things that are morbid, accepting it. Otherwise why would people cite things like the Adams family or Edgar Allan Poe as being Gothic feeling when that has nothing to do with music and both existed long before Gothic music did? What about Gothic Lolita which has little to do with the music subculture as it has a far more Japanese influence, or neon goths who don' usually listen to that kind of music as they tend to prefer electro, or bubble goths who like pop music or steampunk goths who tend to obsess over the victorian era and like acoustic music with heavy drums or gothic metal where people will question if they're a goth or metalhead. And there's people who say they're gothic because they love Gothic literature like Frankenstein Dracula and modern comics like JTHM and Lenore. Gothic literature of course has been around longer than Gothic rock. If it was solely music then Goth would have died out long ago since it's so rare to hear new Gothic bands. Goths can't even agree for the most part on what Gothic music even is. Is it specifically Gothic rock? And what if other genre' was like Gothic electro, Goth pop, goth metal, gothic punkrock and so many other genre's inspired by gothic culture? About the only thing most of them can agree on is that Bela Lagosi's dead is a goth song and then usually argue about other music. Someone told me Voltaire can't be gothic music because he teases the subculture, and yet his musical inspiration is clearly gothic, and clearly makes fun in a way that's lovingly done. What about people who like Gothic rock and yet don't identify as Goth because they feel no attachment to other parts of the sub culture showing there more to it to them than just liking some music?
I think Goth has evolved to be more about the feeling of goth than anything specific you can point to, and people like you are no different than people who say you're not goth if you don't wear certain clothing. You're still just being a gatekeeper when it comes down to it ignoring everything other than a narrow view of the culture, while ignoring that there's so much to the Gothic subculture besides just music.
Lol that ship sailed a long time ago. The kids give zero fucks about the music and how goth started. It's best to just accept this and not let it upset you too much.
@@sardonicus1739 I agree! I identify as a goth, and I don't listen to the music as much as other goths, but I love Edgar Allen Poe, the aforementioned Leone and other parts of "gothic" media. I'm more of a punk in terms of music, actually (so I guess I'm a little bit of both). I don't think goth should be defined by music or fashion alone.
Lawful Neutral goth vs Evil Neutral goth. Lawful Neutral wins friend, Evil Neutral loses friend gains ego and tons of meth.
Pro tip, if your friends are shoplifting, or encouraging you to shoplift. LEAVE. NOW.
I don't mean shoplifting shit you need to survive, I mean stuff like chokers or bracelets that are six bucks.
All of the friends I've had that have shoplifted and have encouraged me to, I had to leave because they were very toxic and abusive in the end. (One of them even sa'd me but that's not related).
Same goes for other friends I've had that have been friends with shoplifters..
she was batshit crazy
If I'm going to look back and cry about people being bad friends, I have to look at myself and admit I was one to someone else too.
I really dont understand how bertie is a stalker here when she was just trying to understand why someone who claimed to be her friend all of a sudden stopped wanting to hang out with her. Muriel literally dressed bertie. Muriel only saw her as a replacement and made bertie her scape goat.
Yeah honestly. I've seen the episode twice, and while Bertie might've been a bit intense, I wouldn't call her obsessive or even a stalker.
She only started acting like that later in the episode because Muriel started pushing her away without explanation.
You can still like the goth style while liking that stuff too 💀 I literally love romance story’s and wearing pink pastel outfits but I also love horror and wearing a gothic style
Muriel was, I suspect, jealous of Bertie for winning gothiest. It was part (not whole) of why she disposed of her. She pressured her into her subculture gradually against her will and changed her, then complained she wasn't "authentic". Honest to God, I and I think others have had toxic friends like Muriel in highschool.
I had a fried like muriel, I desperately wanted to have someone to speak about art with and she was there. Greatest mistake I made was letting her into my life and messing up my mental health. She was so toxic and so was her family, too bad at that time my family was a little toxic too and never really saw what was happening to me.
Muriel was just pissed Birdie got picked over her. If she had won “most gothiest” then she wouldn’t have lashed out at Birdie
pastel goth is a thing, right?
Geez, things peer pressure does to you
hearing the sucking sound in the fades. Literal vampire bat taking more and more of you until you are comfortably reliant on them: when you throw you away, you feel drained of everything you once were. You feel lost and mourn them despite them taking so much.
Muriel was the one who encouraged her to changer her style to fit in with her then turned on her and called her a fake after she did, literally giving me so many flashbacks to my adolescence, people who know you're desperate to find a friend then after they change you they turn on you
I understood that Muriel was being manipulative to Bertie at her most vulnerable state. Yes its wrong to do but I also understood her after She and Bertie shared a kiss, Having someone obsessed with you is toxic and she find it uncomfortable when Bertie drew her and herself in a coffin like they're a couple.
Both are in the wrong; Muriel's Manipulation and Bertie's Obsession.
I think at One Point, She did find Bertie to be fun to hang out and showed her a new side to herself but she didn't think that it would go too far as to why she called Bertie a Stalker cause of the obsession Bertie had to Muriel! When things are heated up, we tend to say things we don't mean and to get Bertie to stop stalking her, she had to say that cause it got to its breaking point
At the end of the Episode, She states that the movie wasn't even about her, meaning that she got over Bertie's obsessed antics and moved on. She has a Son now, she's a movie director. She doesn't seem to be affected by the past unlike Bertie.
Top 10 characters we would all punch:
Number 1
They make you do something that you wouldn't do normally. Then they know what they did was wrong so they resent you for going along with it. They hate you because they hate themselves and blame you for loving them. Muriel made a spitting image of herself to abuse so she didn't have to actually confront herself. She could just take out her hatred of herself on someone else. Just a personal life sort of thing I've heard from people with BPD or NPD. Or she just found a temporary replacement for the friend she preferred and when she was done with Bertie just discarded her. That would be if I were to dehumanize her and just go with what the show tells us what happened from Bertie's perspective
I didn't realize that Muriel was a bad friend until reading the comments even though I watched the whole series. It makes sense why I was manipulated so easily in the past...
You know it sucks when, you’re a goth and people think that you’re not one just because you so happen to like other things. :-/ that’s kinda stupid goths we’re all about not following the status quote and just doing as they felt like. Muriel was just a bitch.
I have never been in any of the situations Bertie themed episodes have talk about but I can still tell what the show is trying to imply and that's a great thing. Shows being able to not only connect with people who've been in this situation but accurately show a graph of what the situation looks like for the people who don't know, is something most shows can't begin to grasp. This show manages to make jokes that aren't your normal "Haha Women has periods, and like to tear eachother down haha" jokes, when certain sexual jokes that are uncomfortable are said the characters don't just laugh it off, they show clear discomfort. This show has shown many sides to many stories that adult shows (Especially women based ones) refuse to touch on.
Muriel sucks way more than just blood, alone.
Muriel barely even listens to bertie she just feeds into that small hunk of acceptance bertie latched onton
Knew a few people like Muriel in highschool. Bought into goth as a replica personality rather than actually become their own person. From what I've seen they still dress exactly like Muriel does at the end of the episode, and act like her too. If you truly love this stuff enough to dress to the nines every day, more power to you. And I get it when teenagers buy into the idea that consuming the "right" stuff us the same as having a personality. It just icks me out when I see grown-ass people still funneling themselves to such a two-dimensional template and being, like, so actively consumerist about their whole entire identity. And again, people that like this stuff, and even/especially the people that genuinely like it enough to make it a big part of their identity are chill. The difference is why they do it.
To be clear - if you genuinely enjoy it, I ain't here to yuck your yum. It's people like Muriel - the gatekeepers, the elitists, the people insecure enough to literally consider their fashion/aesthetic sense to be a suitable substitute for a personality and project it by negging people that don't "get it" as much as they do - that piss me off.
As a pastel goth who’s favorite color is pink- how dare 💀
RIGHT like who does this bat think she is!! Black and pink were MEANT to go together, bump off Muriel lmao
Muriel is a poser. You can be goth and still like boy bands, pink, and rom coms. Like what you like! Trying too hard to check mark all the boxes to fit a certain image is lame.
I don't think I can watch this episode soully bc it's giving me whole flashback of high school...when she said "I'm goth" dammit..that hurt.
reminds me of NiTW for some reason
"just a hardcore barnacle on Muriel's ass"
no bertie you were responding to trauma just like her
bertie repressed so much of herself after getting hurt by her.
For real. Like I genuienly don't think that Bertie at the start was being 'obsessive' or 'clingy' maybe a bit intense sure, but she only started acting out when Muriel abandoned her.
Bertie thinks she was the leach but really Muriel was the leach
0:43 idk why im watching this but this reminds me whenever my sister gets like any criticism at all for doing illegal shit like this she calls me a stalker or creep :/
You know ppl that are goth can still like other music right?
GOTHS CAN LIKE ROM COMS FIGHT ME IM LIVING PROOF
I like the story, kinda had the same thing happen to me a few years ago…but I don’t think I needed to know how do birds wear lipstick
Muriel sucks, worst part is that judging by when they meet in the present Muriel is still an awful person.
I mean what kind of mom makes a movie about leeches, that's actually a metaphor for their own child? Not to mention that she kind of shoos the kid away.
God Bertie is maybe one of the most relatable characters, god i even had my own muriel
my gOD as a goth person i wanna cry
Cute character design tho
Riightt😭
GOTHS CAN LIKE ROM COMS I LIKE ROM COMS AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE COLORS IS PINK AND YOU CAN STILL BE GOTH
Yooo Is this show good? Wondering cuz it reminds me of Bojack and Bojack is like amazing
It was made by the person who designed bojack and the other characters, so yes.
Muriel wasn’t even a “friend” per say…
Now Tuca looks like an angel.
As a goth, Muriel is wrong, goth do in fact also like romcoms and boybands
Who says goths can't like boy bands? I consider myself a bit of goth/emo/alt ...it's more about dressing how I feel , not my interests, I don't hang out in cemeteries or even wear thick dark makeup, I'm just enjoying life as it comes
Anybody else reminded of that Thirteen movie
Me, a goth who loves Corpus Delicti and backstreet boys 👁 👄 👁
On only reason why I love her was that she’s one of my favorite animals
The real leech was Muriel😢😢😢
I had someone in my life who was like this
Which episode was that?
"Im so glad YOU stole these" 🚩🚩🚩
i had a friend like muriel, how sad it would be if i wouldn't look at her as the "pitty girl who wanted attention"
danm i even think what if she had another friend to toy her as she wanted>:(
Now thinking about it is a mood
Yeah, she is.
What show is this from? The style low key reminds me of bojack horseman
Tucca and Bertie
Wait, is there a new season?
It’s hard to meet real friends when these type of people in general are everywhere
So glad Berdie took her best goth title for being a jerk
Poetic justice for berdie 😂
As a person who likes goth. I still have colored clothes because I couldn’t afford a lot. But really, liking goth is subjective. I like goth for the aesthetic, but my music taste is more on soft. I wanna say fuck Muriel
this was me with my “best friend” like 3-4 years ago. now i thankfully dress my own ways, sorta. still want to fit in really bad with people i label “cool” but i rlly shouodnt.
duh
I am goth and me personally my fav character is Muriel nocturna in the whole world
She really is.. like at these clips sge at first trynna kinda change her etc. Then gets mad when she isnt gothest in school or yeah
GOTH BERTIE
I hate how bertie was the one apologizing
I can kind of understand why Muriel freaked out.
I went to high-school with someone who tried to single white female me.
What does that mean
@@DoormanSoorman single white female is a movie where a girl starts out as your friend, and she copies your style so you both match, and it's cute at first, until she starts obsessing with you and tries to be you and takes over your identity.
But the problem is that SHE pushed Bertie into copying her. She molding her into what she saw as a true Goth and then, when she proved to be more popular than her, she threw her to the dogs. Her freak out is because of her own toxic actions.
@@bananatiergod you make a good point. My own experience was something I didn't ask for so that's a big difference.