AIRBUS not Airbus Learn to pay attention to detail Make sure the brain sees what the eyes are looking at It is clearly written on the aircraft. ZOMBIES have eyes but cannot see - ears and cannot hear. So get the point.
Most pilots recognized and solved the problem. But I like what Sully said about this type of thing. "Pilots should never be expected to compensate for flawed design." If there is a system that repeatedly fails to give accurate data to the pilot, that sounds like flawed design to me.
Same logic applies to a system too that uses pilot input as a fail safe/last resort measure - the final line of defence of a crucial system shouldn't ever rely on human input (unless human input is already a very large part of it's design and operation; the stall warning system/AOA sensors and stick pushers for example)
That first flight, WILD that the co-pilot got half the blame on that one. Telling your superior OVER AND OVER AGAIN that, "hey, we are running out of fuel" just for him to ignore it.
They didn’t make sure the captain understood the situation though. Yeah, the captain should have listened but if the copilot and flight engineer would have made sure he understood the fuel situation the plane would not have crashed. And the purpose isn’t to shame the pilots for their poor job, it’s to see how the accident could have been prevented.
@@jaydumon2784 Ignoring the problem of command hierachy, apart from starting to slap the Captain in the face not sure what more one can do other than REPEATINGLY showing and expressing the "THE FUEL IS RUNNING LOW". If I am in command and not only failing to understand that we are running low on fuel, but my subordinates tell me this OVER and OVER again. That crash is on me.
They aren’t “blaming” anyone. People will always make mistakes, so the procedures need to be robust enough to account for them. The fault is with the emergency protocol/checklist, since it did not account for things like “pilot was distracted and did not acknowledge low fuel warnings”.
Even with the hierarchy at the time, how could the other people in the cockpit not be more forceful, since their own lives were in danger. They'd rather take their chances with a plane crash than challenge the captain?
The training check airman who came to assist, Dennis Fitch, had studied the 1985 crash of Japan Airlines 123 where a fatigue crack from an improper repair of a tailstrike resulted in the destruction of the tail of the plane and a catastrophic loss of hydraulic power and control where, despite the crew's heroic efforts, they crashed in a mountain killing all but four out of 524 onboard. He had practiced the scenario in a simulator after wandering if it was possible to control a plane in that condition using only throttle power. This helped save the lives of the 184 who survived United Airlines 232.
Got this from google: ‘The Airbus A380, a double-decker aircraft with four engines, can typically seat 525 passengers, but its maximum certified capacity is 853’. Also the japan airlines one I believe was a plane that had been specially configured to fit more passengers on whereas there would usually be more space taken up by cargo.
The fact that Denny Fitch, the man in the world probably most qualified to help with this situation happened to be on the plane is incomprehensible to me. It was truly miraculous
This was discussed in Malcom Galdwell’s book “Outliers.” It talked about how because of Korea’s strict hierarchical society, co-pilots wouldn’t challenge their captains. As a result, Korean Air had the highest rate of accidents for a period of time until they realized the problem.
Gladwell got a lot of criticism from people that are actually within the industry. Asiana had a normal safety record of its time despite also being Korean. The real problem with Korean Air was their poor CRM program, and even then, their safety record was on par with USAir.
CRM is fundamentally important in aviation safety. We've seen a few accidents occur because the pilots aren't working together. CRM has historically saved lives.
Society needs to take the hint and realize that maybe commercial aviation isn't the only place CRM might be helpful. Aviation in general has a lot of lessons it could teach everyone else - when small mistakes leave a visceral, unignorable consequence like 300 corpses in a multi hundred million dollar hole in the ground, issues that might skate by in other industries quickly become critical problems that need to be solved immediately. Surgery and medicine adopted the airline industry's practice of having checklists for everything, and massively cut down on the rate of complications and mistakes, and the fundamental principle behind CRM is so universally applicable and useful you might as well just teach it in grade school.
It’s not just a few. Some of the worst aviation accidents in history had lack of CRM as a contributor like Saudi 163, Tenerife, Charkhi Dadri collision, AF447.
@@FNLNFNLNwow that’s a great point. I think the big difference is in medicine the issue of time is much more of a problem. Problem solving in a group relies on the group being able to talk things out. But if you only have seconds to make a decision to save someone’s life you don’t have that time. But overall I agree.
@@rationallyruby Aviation also has situations where split second decisions are required. Sure, there are things that need to be done by memory, but if you look at a variety of incidents, as soon as the plane is no longer falling out of the sky, the first thing flight crews do is to start going through checklists to troubleshoot the issue. It's also important to note that there are multiple people involved, in aviation, as in medicine, and this is where the CRM comes in handy. If everyone knows what should be done, you can have one person dealing with the immediate emergency, while the others run checklists to make sure nothing's being forgotten or overlooked, and if the pilot or surgeon is making a mistake, the copilot or nurses running the checklists can remind them. There's also the other part where checklists run in advance of acting can prepare you for emergencies. For example, pre surgical checklists involve steps like confirming the site of surgery (i.e. you're operating on the correct leg), that there's enough blood on hand in case it's needed, that there are no medication allergies, etc.
What’s even wilder is that Denny Fitch was absolutely the best person to have join the cockpit crew at the time. He had studied the crash of JAL123, still the worst single plane crash in aviation history. He was obsessed with trying to figure out how the pilots managed to keep the plane in the air so long and did a ton of practice in simulators trying to work it out. Because of this, he had literally the exact knowledge needed to help in the situation with the United plane!
Errol Morris interviewed Denny Fitch for his TV show "First Person" back in 2001. It is THE most harrowing and moving interview I've ever seen. Thankfully it's here on UA-cam: ua-cam.com/video/nf33RDu_D6M/v-deo.htmlsi=0WvMikduxkfqMg_v
United 232 is a great example of when the universe does everything in its power to end you, but you are backed up by the absolute best of the best in skill, reason and resources. The fact most people survived is a miracle - they put pilot after pilot after pilot in the same situation in simulators and nobody had a survivable outcome. The crew up front teamed with the decisive and calm FA's are true heroes.
Me too. I also listen to a few podcasts (Air Safety Detectives, presented by ex-NTSB investigators - and Aviation News talk). I want to learn as much as possible about aviation safety, flying is as safe as you make it. I actually picked up a few tips, and one time when I messed up bad, I felt like it was worth it when I stayed calm and dealt with the problem, fixed it and carried on flying.
Really strong choice to pick flights 173 and 232. Even though the first one had far fewer casualties, the important lesson is how well or badly a problem was handled.
Absolutely. Had the same CRM been applied to 173, it would barely have made local news, if at all. Portland has parallel runways, so it wouldn't have even caused any delays (probably)
The moment a pilot realises they probably won’t survive but they want to cause as few fatalities as possible is a peak humanity moment. Passengers on a plane suddenly become souls on board.
This comment immediately brought to mind the small jet crash on i-75 near Naples FL earlier this year. The three passengers survived; the two pilots did not.
That first accident the captain and first officer survived but the flight engineer didn’t. Second one all 4 pilots in the cockpit survived (all quite badly injured though)
0:36 Absolutely correct. There's a very important rule in aviation if dealing with problems on board. It's called "Aviate, Nagivate, Communicate", they are listed from most vital to least vital. Aviate = Fly the plane is the priority. Navigate = Be aware of your location and adjust if necesarry (high terrain, storms etc...), Communicate = Communicate with ATC (Say intentions, discuss your course of action etc...) Many times in aviation, professionnel pilots focused on Navigate instead of Aviate, a prime example being American Airlines flight 965, which crashed into a mountain in Columbia after the crew made navigating errors and experienced a case of "Get-There-Itis", basically a need to rush the descent and landing without taking the time to consider the feasibility of the plan and ended up crashing into El Diluvio.
My favourite is the Gimli Glider incident. The pilots handled their situation with great calmness and managed to save all people on board. There is even a museum in Gimli, Manitoba, Canada, dedicated to the event.
When professionals who have years of experience put their egos aside to take any help they can get from someone who is still learning, it's truly inspiring. In many professions, sometimes the new blood have insights, and more up to date info than the more seasoned people. I know in my job I'm guilty of falling into habits, and what is comfortable. We NEED people fresh out of school to be around us in order to pull us out of those zones.
yES! that is a very very interesting topic, and it's a bit more complex than most ppl grasp for one main reason: the whole point of extremely routine work such as piloting is to resist getting too habit-prone in a mental sense, and also even much more importantly, to be of a personality disposition as to reduce ego to a bare minimum when working. But big btw, it really should be entirely normal (and not particularly inspiring i'd imagine) for long-experienced operators to take any help they can get, in fact, the whole point of being a mature professional is to exactly that type of operator, i.e., almost zero ego, per se, and the wisdom to know that the mind takes shortcuts and makes so sooo many mistakes! I'm a very technical person, and tbph, IF i had to choose between a modest quality pilot, and a true full automated plane (which may not exist yet) I'd pick the automation, probably. To err, is a normal human behavior.
Sometimes having someone still learning or in training is super valuable. A lot of the first things you learn are the things you need in emergency situations! Pilots that have been flying for decades may have forgot a lot of the book stuff as they nearly never need it.
Per mile travelled, commercial flying is over 50 times safer than driving your domestic car. Considering that airliners are cruising at 30,000 ft and 500 mph this is a mind-boggling achievement by the industry.
I live near the Sioux City area. A very dark day in our local history. I did not know how hard the crew worked to fix an impossible, desperate situation. They did the best they could.
Not only worked, but cracked a fair amount of jokes while knowing full well there was a very high probability they were all about to become something similar to an overcooked hamburger. CRM saves lives, and humor maintains moral. Two very valuable lessons about not only crisis and leadership, but humanity.
I think a very important aspect about flight 232 that was left out was the emergency response. The crew got the plane down on an airfield where there was a lot of emergency workers already waiting for the plane and more on rout to the site. Departments had people come up from 80+ miles away to assist in the operation. You can survive a plane crash usually as long as help is available right away. Most of those who died on that plane died due to smoke inhalation and being in parts of the plane that were not accessible after the crash. Most people were injured and a lot needed to be assisted from the plane. If there had not been the amount of people there that there were than that assistance and immediate aid would not have been available. This is not meant to diminish the efforts of the crew as their actions undoubtedly played the most important role, getting the plane down. but that is only half the story. I would also like to add that although there were no procedures for their situation Denny Fitch said that he had previously practiced doing power only turns in the simulator on his own time. Captain Haynes later said that although Fitch was very experienced it took some time for him to full realize what was happening before he was able to start helping. Additionally i would like to add that the plane coming in to fast was in no way under the control of the crew. they were controlling pitch (the angle the nose points relative to the ground) by trying to go above or bellow the trim speed (the speed at which the plane flies level without elevator input) bellow it the nose points down and above it the nose will come up. that speed happened to be very high as without hydraulics they could not control flaps. this meant that through no fault of their own they came in very fast.
that account of hydraulic failure (and tail engine) was amazing - what heroic behaviour of all pilots. landing on hudson river was success when plane did not sink because heavy engines were gone.
I remember the Sioux City crash, very well. My husband had to convince me to fly again. He was a young attorney, who worked as a mediator, between airlines and labor unions, and trains, and labor unions. He flew all over the US, and territories. He was one of the few people, that airlines would come back to the departing gate for, if the National Mediation Board needed to give him something. I recall them calling me, to come get a brief he would need. I'd have to get our children into the car, drive into DC, where his secretary would hand me a package, then I'd drive to National, (now, Reagan), get the childreb=n into the baby carriage and run to the departure gate. What a time it was, to be young, before computers.
@@cremebrulee4759 i found out about it 2 years after it happened... By then he'd told the story so many times he didn't like talking about it. All he told me was he never got his luggage back, and an asisn woman kept his uniform blazer that he'd given for warmth out on the wing.
John Cox is a legendary aviation investigator who has pinpointed and dissected a handful of crashes for decades. Pilots these days seem to be more tardy and reliant on fallible computers to fly which sometimes puts an aircraft in danger of crashing.
Captain Al Hayes was a good Captain. I met him when came to talk to us at Embry-Riddle. He passed away recently. Rest in Peace Capt Hayes. We ERAU Alumni carry on the values you gave us everyday we are in the flight deck today.
I heard him at a fly-in. He was embarrassed by pilots giving him a standing ovation. I respect his honesty in relating his mistakes and crediting his crew. I don't know how many captains could have made as good of a result.
This is a well put together video about the topic. However… I am a little surprised Tenerife wasn’t mentioned at all….. CRM as well as other Swiss cheese factors were a factor there.
To correct the record.......CRM originally stood for "cockpit" resource management. When it was pointed out the flight attendants were also a valuable source of info.......the acronym's meaning became Crew Resource Management!!
I was almost in plane crash from turbulence over the Rocky Mountains in the mid 1990s when I was 15yrs old. I’ve only flown when I had no other choice since then. It was worse than any rollercoaster ride I’ve been on. We were falling & climbing over & over for around 20minutes when we suddenly dropped several thousand feet which caused the pilot of lose control. Everyone on the plane started screaming & crying which made it a lot worse and I’d say around a quarter of the people around me were puking their brains out. It was a nightmare that scarred me for life.
I remember this crash in Portland I live in the Columbia river gorge my dad drove us by this crash the aircraft wasn’t totally destroyed like a lot of them for going through the trees like it did. It was amazing it held together. I was like 16 years old when that happened.
A tiny defect in the titanium fan disk on UA232 grew for almost 20 years until it broke apart, on the one plane with the most exceptional flight crew you could hope for. Complete loss of control of the ailerons, flaps, rudder, and spoilers, unbelievable anybody survived
Being a non pilot When I saw what scully had done in 2 full min BRAVO.. no wonder he had to retire everybody wanted him as their pilot post accident!!!!
“What do pilots do when the worst case scenarios become reality?” “Before we start, we would like to thank our sponsor for this episode, Boeing: If it’s Boeing, I’m not going”
It's all good if you have more than one pilot. If you're by yourself, stay calm, and know the aircraft limits, and then if time permits, checklist -checklist-checklist..........
From a pilot - not bad. ..that's a complement, English understatement style :) "Not bad" - Brilliantly illustrated in the book "King Rat" after the fine meal of a black market egg and coffee. ..provided by the "King", an American POW, to a British officer POW.
Sioux City Iowa....that crew an the flight engineer that just happened to be on bored....they done a fine job using what they had to the fullest...an if anybody knows......yes the corn does grow that high in Iowa..👍👍👍👍
Wanna see a landing even more impressive than Sully’s but much lesser known? Check out the Gimli Glider incident. If I didn’t know it was a real thing I’d think it was pure Hollywood
It’s fair to say the Tenerife disaster (1977) and BEA flight 548 (1972) both brought CRM into the spotlight, but for whatever reason the US we’re slower to consider it
I live in portland and watched that plane making slow low passes( living on mt scott below the normal flight path )until in horror we watched it slowly slam dowm in a new subdivision being built ,thank god they werent sold yet ,its something you never want to see and definately never forget RIP to the 10 souls lost ...im really suprised we never had any other major events that is until that door blew off last year, lucky crew and pasengers on that one 😮
My how things changed since CRM was introduced The Captain now had to understand and respond to inputs from other crew members Which really is just common sense
Part of the problem for the first accident was that the jet age was very new. In a piston airliner when the engineer says you have 5000lbs of fuel - that's a lot. In a low by-pass early age jet at low level it isn't. The Captain, with 27000 hours on piston airliners just didn't twig that 5000lbs isn't a lot of fuel...
Did he retire from the NTSB ? I never understood why Greg didn’t come on these ever so assumed while under contract he couldn’t do media like this unless a joint production with a proper credit in production.
7:20 - - 250 mph (80 mph too fast); 170 mph = top speed to land 8:11 - - 1904 - - mid 1930’s - - Airline Pilots Association founded - - 8:31 8:40 - - Cpt Sullenberger👨🏼✈️ lost both engines from bird strikes @ 3,000’
To be fair CRM is handled differently around the world, for everyone saying it is important, yes, but I have read up on reports where CRM was ignored due to cultural reasons or a power dynamic at play despite the pilots going through a course on it, for example, Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509 where cultural expectations meant CRM was taught but not followed due to the first officer feeling like he could not speak up to his much more senior captain due to Korean culture playing a factor, despite knowing something was wrong, or cases in the US where flight crew don't feel able to speak up due to a captain who has been at the airline longer or is older than the F/O
Airbus sheds $12 billion in market value after slashing guidance: on.wsj.com/3VZqogP
Time for me to pick up some shares of a great company at a discount.
What does slashing guidance mean
They lowered their delivery targets because of lack of parts.
AIRBUS not Airbus
Learn to pay attention to detail
Make sure the brain sees what the eyes are looking at
It is clearly written on the aircraft.
ZOMBIES have eyes but cannot see - ears and cannot hear.
So get the point.
@@andrew_koala2974 Do you need medical assistance?
Omg, he's the guy from Air Crash Investigations. Basically my childhood right there for some reason
🤣 same
It’s my childhood and still they’re coming out with new episodes 😂 I get excited every time a new one comes out
I saw the thumbnail and heard the voice. HE IS HIM.
I see Mr Cox and I press play just because of Air Crash Investigation.
Oh yeah, I know what you mean. I think I’ve seen every one of the shows ever released-excellent stuff.
Most pilots recognized and solved the problem. But I like what Sully said about this type of thing. "Pilots should never be expected to compensate for flawed design." If there is a system that repeatedly fails to give accurate data to the pilot, that sounds like flawed design to me.
This is actually a really good maxim for industry and business in general.
#improvepolling
Same logic applies to a system too that uses pilot input as a fail safe/last resort measure - the final line of defence of a crucial system shouldn't ever rely on human input (unless human input is already a very large part of it's design and operation; the stall warning system/AOA sensors and stick pushers for example)
Dude, the Sully ATC clip is so awesome. He's like "Okay would you like to go to Teterboro?" -Sully "We're gonna be in the Hudson."
Man at his best, peak performance
He picked the emptiest spot literally on the fly! Absolutely incredible!
That first flight, WILD that the co-pilot got half the blame on that one. Telling your superior OVER AND OVER AGAIN that, "hey, we are running out of fuel" just for him to ignore it.
They didn’t make sure the captain understood the situation though. Yeah, the captain should have listened but if the copilot and flight engineer would have made sure he understood the fuel situation the plane would not have crashed. And the purpose isn’t to shame the pilots for their poor job, it’s to see how the accident could have been prevented.
@@jaydumon2784 Ignoring the problem of command hierachy, apart from starting to slap the Captain in the face not sure what more one can do other than REPEATINGLY showing and expressing the "THE FUEL IS RUNNING LOW". If I am in command and not only failing to understand that we are running low on fuel, but my subordinates tell me this OVER and OVER again. That crash is on me.
They aren’t “blaming” anyone. People will always make mistakes, so the procedures need to be robust enough to account for them. The fault is with the emergency protocol/checklist, since it did not account for things like “pilot was distracted and did not acknowledge low fuel warnings”.
This also happened to a Korean airline flight, with the captain ignoring the co-pilot due to “seniority”.
Even with the hierarchy at the time, how could the other people in the cockpit not be more forceful, since their own lives were in danger. They'd rather take their chances with a plane crash than challenge the captain?
The training check airman who came to assist, Dennis Fitch, had studied the 1985 crash of Japan Airlines 123 where a fatigue crack from an improper repair of a tailstrike resulted in the destruction of the tail of the plane and a catastrophic loss of hydraulic power and control where, despite the crew's heroic efforts, they crashed in a mountain killing all but four out of 524 onboard. He had practiced the scenario in a simulator after wandering if it was possible to control a plane in that condition using only throttle power. This helped save the lives of the 184 who survived United Airlines 232.
Over 500 people on board😮 that’s insane, do flights today still carry mass amounts of people like this?
Got this from google: ‘The Airbus A380, a double-decker aircraft with four engines, can typically seat 525 passengers, but its maximum certified capacity is 853’. Also the japan airlines one I believe was a plane that had been specially configured to fit more passengers on whereas there would usually be more space taken up by cargo.
@@thegamingplayer8395 afaik only 747s and A380s go that high
The fact that Denny Fitch, the man in the world probably most qualified to help with this situation happened to be on the plane is incomprehensible to me. It was truly miraculous
This gave me chills
This was discussed in Malcom Galdwell’s book “Outliers.” It talked about how because of Korea’s strict hierarchical society, co-pilots wouldn’t challenge their captains. As a result, Korean Air had the highest rate of accidents for a period of time until they realized the problem.
Gladwell got a lot of criticism from people that are actually within the industry. Asiana had a normal safety record of its time despite also being Korean. The real problem with Korean Air was their poor CRM program, and even then, their safety record was on par with USAir.
CRM is fundamentally important in aviation safety. We've seen a few accidents occur because the pilots aren't working together. CRM has historically saved lives.
Society needs to take the hint and realize that maybe commercial aviation isn't the only place CRM might be helpful.
Aviation in general has a lot of lessons it could teach everyone else - when small mistakes leave a visceral, unignorable consequence like 300 corpses in a multi hundred million dollar hole in the ground, issues that might skate by in other industries quickly become critical problems that need to be solved immediately.
Surgery and medicine adopted the airline industry's practice of having checklists for everything, and massively cut down on the rate of complications and mistakes, and the fundamental principle behind CRM is so universally applicable and useful you might as well just teach it in grade school.
It’s not just a few. Some of the worst aviation accidents in history had lack of CRM as a contributor like Saudi 163, Tenerife, Charkhi Dadri collision, AF447.
@@FNLNFNLNwow that’s a great point. I think the big difference is in medicine the issue of time is much more of a problem. Problem solving in a group relies on the group being able to talk things out. But if you only have seconds to make a decision to save someone’s life you don’t have that time. But overall I agree.
@@rationallyruby Aviation also has situations where split second decisions are required. Sure, there are things that need to be done by memory, but if you look at a variety of incidents, as soon as the plane is no longer falling out of the sky, the first thing flight crews do is to start going through checklists to troubleshoot the issue.
It's also important to note that there are multiple people involved, in aviation, as in medicine, and this is where the CRM comes in handy. If everyone knows what should be done, you can have one person dealing with the immediate emergency, while the others run checklists to make sure nothing's being forgotten or overlooked, and if the pilot or surgeon is making a mistake, the copilot or nurses running the checklists can remind them.
There's also the other part where checklists run in advance of acting can prepare you for emergencies. For example, pre surgical checklists involve steps like confirming the site of surgery (i.e. you're operating on the correct leg), that there's enough blood on hand in case it's needed, that there are no medication allergies, etc.
Wow.. Flight 232. Outstanding co-op airmanship, despite the losses.
It was a group effort under an excellent leader. It's a miracle, really.
What’s even wilder is that Denny Fitch was absolutely the best person to have join the cockpit crew at the time. He had studied the crash of JAL123, still the worst single plane crash in aviation history. He was obsessed with trying to figure out how the pilots managed to keep the plane in the air so long and did a ton of practice in simulators trying to work it out. Because of this, he had literally the exact knowledge needed to help in the situation with the United plane!
Errol Morris interviewed Denny Fitch for his TV show "First Person" back in 2001. It is THE most harrowing and moving interview I've ever seen. Thankfully it's here on UA-cam: ua-cam.com/video/nf33RDu_D6M/v-deo.htmlsi=0WvMikduxkfqMg_v
Time traveler @@piratesswoop725
They wear SO frigging close, but the right wing stalled just above the round, ground-looping the aircraft and causing it to roll over an break up.
United 232 is a great example of when the universe does everything in its power to end you, but you are backed up by the absolute best of the best in skill, reason and resources. The fact most people survived is a miracle - they put pilot after pilot after pilot in the same situation in simulators and nobody had a survivable outcome. The crew up front teamed with the decisive and calm FA's are true heroes.
Number one is thanks to our LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Always ask for protection when you leave home 🙏🏾✝️
watched aircrash investigations since I was young, but now that i'm a student pilot, it hits differently
Me too. I also listen to a few podcasts (Air Safety Detectives, presented by ex-NTSB investigators - and Aviation News talk). I want to learn as much as possible about aviation safety, flying is as safe as you make it. I actually picked up a few tips, and one time when I messed up bad, I felt like it was worth it when I stayed calm and dealt with the problem, fixed it and carried on flying.
With Boeing being the way it is, we're probably gonna see a lot more Air Crash Investigation episodes soon 😅
@@schm147not funny
❤@@schm147
Really strong choice to pick flights 173 and 232. Even though the first one had far fewer casualties, the important lesson is how well or badly a problem was handled.
Absolutely. Had the same CRM been applied to 173, it would barely have made local news, if at all. Portland has parallel runways, so it wouldn't have even caused any delays (probably)
The moment a pilot realises they probably won’t survive but they want to cause as few fatalities as possible is a peak humanity moment. Passengers on a plane suddenly become souls on board.
The number of souls on board is what ATC always asks in an emergency.
I write the number of souls on board on my takeoff briefing sheet every flight. Gotta ground yourself on what your ultimate goal is every time.
This comment immediately brought to mind the small jet crash on i-75 near Naples FL earlier this year. The three passengers survived; the two pilots did not.
@@Willaev my pilot pal says 'stay clam and carry on'
That first accident the captain and first officer survived but the flight engineer didn’t. Second one all 4 pilots in the cockpit survived (all quite badly injured though)
I'd trust Captain Cox to fly me anywhere in anything he deems worthy of his immense skills. He is a huge asset to the aviation community.
0:36 Absolutely correct. There's a very important rule in aviation if dealing with problems on board. It's called "Aviate, Nagivate, Communicate", they are listed from most vital to least vital. Aviate = Fly the plane is the priority. Navigate = Be aware of your location and adjust if necesarry (high terrain, storms etc...), Communicate = Communicate with ATC (Say intentions, discuss your course of action etc...) Many times in aviation, professionnel pilots focused on Navigate instead of Aviate, a prime example being American Airlines flight 965, which crashed into a mountain in Columbia after the crew made navigating errors and experienced a case of "Get-There-Itis", basically a need to rush the descent and landing without taking the time to consider the feasibility of the plan and ended up crashing into El Diluvio.
the fact that ANYONE survived that united 232 crash is absolutely incredible and a testament to those pilots!
My favourite is the Gimli Glider incident. The pilots handled their situation with great calmness and managed to save all people on board. There is even a museum in Gimli, Manitoba, Canada, dedicated to the event.
When professionals who have years of experience put their egos aside to take any help they can get from someone who is still learning, it's truly inspiring.
In many professions, sometimes the new blood have insights, and more up to date info than the more seasoned people. I know in my job I'm guilty of falling into habits, and what is comfortable. We NEED people fresh out of school to be around us in order to pull us out of those zones.
yES! that is a very very interesting topic, and it's a bit more complex than most ppl grasp for one main reason: the whole point of extremely routine work such as piloting is to resist getting too habit-prone in a mental sense, and also even much more importantly, to be of a personality disposition as to reduce ego to a bare minimum when working. But big btw, it really should be entirely normal (and not particularly inspiring i'd imagine) for long-experienced operators to take any help they can get, in fact, the whole point of being a mature professional is to exactly that type of operator, i.e., almost zero ego, per se, and the wisdom to know that the mind takes shortcuts and makes so sooo many mistakes! I'm a very technical person, and tbph, IF i had to choose between a modest quality pilot, and a true full automated plane (which may not exist yet) I'd pick the automation, probably. To err, is a normal human behavior.
Sometimes having someone still learning or in training is super valuable. A lot of the first things you learn are the things you need in emergency situations! Pilots that have been flying for decades may have forgot a lot of the book stuff as they nearly never need it.
Per mile travelled, commercial flying is over 50 times safer than driving your domestic car. Considering that airliners are cruising at 30,000 ft and 500 mph this is a mind-boggling achievement by the industry.
I live near the Sioux City area. A very dark day in our local history. I did not know how hard the crew worked to fix an impossible, desperate situation. They did the best they could.
Not only worked, but cracked a fair amount of jokes while knowing full well there was a very high probability they were all about to become something similar to an overcooked hamburger.
CRM saves lives, and humor maintains moral. Two very valuable lessons about not only crisis and leadership, but humanity.
I think a very important aspect about flight 232 that was left out was the emergency response. The crew got the plane down on an airfield where there was a lot of emergency workers already waiting for the plane and more on rout to the site. Departments had people come up from 80+ miles away to assist in the operation. You can survive a plane crash usually as long as help is available right away. Most of those who died on that plane died due to smoke inhalation and being in parts of the plane that were not accessible after the crash. Most people were injured and a lot needed to be assisted from the plane. If there had not been the amount of people there that there were than that assistance and immediate aid would not have been available. This is not meant to diminish the efforts of the crew as their actions undoubtedly played the most important role, getting the plane down. but that is only half the story. I would also like to add that although there were no procedures for their situation Denny Fitch said that he had previously practiced doing power only turns in the simulator on his own time. Captain Haynes later said that although Fitch was very experienced it took some time for him to full realize what was happening before he was able to start helping. Additionally i would like to add that the plane coming in to fast was in no way under the control of the crew. they were controlling pitch (the angle the nose points relative to the ground) by trying to go above or bellow the trim speed (the speed at which the plane flies level without elevator input) bellow it the nose points down and above it the nose will come up. that speed happened to be very high as without hydraulics they could not control flaps. this meant that through no fault of their own they came in very fast.
I could watch Sully talk for hours on end. So much information in one man
that account of hydraulic failure (and tail engine) was amazing - what heroic behaviour of all pilots. landing on hudson river was success when plane did not sink because heavy engines were gone.
I remember the Sioux City crash, very well. My husband had to convince me to fly again. He was a young attorney, who worked as a mediator, between airlines and labor unions, and trains, and labor unions. He flew all over the US, and territories. He was one of the few people, that airlines would come back to the departing gate for, if the National Mediation Board needed to give him something. I recall them calling me, to come get a brief he would need. I'd have to get our children into the car, drive into DC, where his secretary would hand me a package, then I'd drive to National, (now, Reagan), get the childreb=n into the baby carriage and run to the departure gate. What a time it was, to be young, before computers.
Captain John Cox. MAD RESPECT for this gentleman!
9:16 a friend was on the Hudson flight. He was a pilot commuting to work!
As a pilot, I wonder what his thoughts were about what was happening.
@@cremebrulee4759 i found out about it 2 years after it happened... By then he'd told the story so many times he didn't like talking about it. All he told me was he never got his luggage back, and an asisn woman kept his uniform blazer that he'd given for warmth out on the wing.
@@cremebrulee4759 but I'm sure he thought he was dead. He's at American airlines now.
@@BobbyGeneric145😂 he’s still bitter about not getting his blazer back lol
@@rationallyruby it was a Colgan blazer and we switched colors not long after!
Thank you to every individual working in this extremely difficult condition and ensuring safety of passengers. THANK YOU.
Captain John Cox big respect and greetings from Croatia
John Cox is a legendary aviation investigator who has pinpointed and dissected a handful of crashes for decades. Pilots these days seem to be more tardy and reliant on fallible computers to fly which sometimes puts an aircraft in danger of crashing.
Captain Al Hayes was a good Captain. I met him when came to talk to us at Embry-Riddle. He passed away recently. Rest in Peace Capt Hayes. We ERAU Alumni carry on the values you gave us everyday we are in the flight deck today.
I heard him at a fly-in. He was embarrassed by pilots giving him a standing ovation. I respect his honesty in relating his mistakes and crediting his crew. I don't know how many captains could have made as good of a result.
Glad to hear how seriously you took his words ! Great job fellas - Thanks .
John Cox is the guy i remember from Air Disasters and Mayday. Best television shows to watch before a 14 hour flight.
Feels good watching this while taxiing right now in a United flight.
The Legend from Air Crash Investigation
John Cox is always great!🙂👍
Super informative, thanks for sharing! 🛫
Thank you. Share with a friend because that is what this was meant for.
More of these! Extremely interesting.
Capt Haynes and his crew are Hero s in my book
Captain John Cox…..this guy knows his stuff, he’s great!….from 🇨🇦
THATS NOT JUST ANY CAPTAIN THAT IS THE JOHN COX!!! WE LOVE JOHN COX! AND GREG FEITH!
"You would have to fly eveyr day for more than 100,000 years to be in a plane crash where someone dies"
Boeing: Hold my rivet gun.
I was looking for this comment
Hold my door plug
I see John Cox I click the video
This is a well put together video about the topic. However…
I am a little surprised Tenerife wasn’t mentioned at all….. CRM as well as other Swiss cheese factors were a factor there.
Thank you for the great content! 🇨🇦
John Cox is a brilliant aviation expert with lots of experience in the field. A trustworthy individual.
ya the recreated scene from sully pretty much sums up the "what to do" part pretty well and in real time
8:40 It's Chesley Sullenberger, not Chelsea...
Thank you. How do they get such basic and important information wrong? It's pathetic.
“Let’s go to Teterboro”
“We can’t do it. We’re gonna be in the hudson”
😅
Awesome video. Captain John Cox did a great in explaining things.
To correct the record.......CRM originally stood for "cockpit" resource management. When it was pointed out the flight attendants were also a valuable source of info.......the acronym's meaning became Crew Resource Management!!
I was almost in plane crash from turbulence over the Rocky Mountains in the mid 1990s when I was 15yrs old. I’ve only flown when I had no other choice since then. It was worse than any rollercoaster ride I’ve been on. We were falling & climbing over & over for around 20minutes when we suddenly dropped several thousand feet which caused the pilot of lose control. Everyone on the plane started screaming & crying which made it a lot worse and I’d say around a quarter of the people around me were puking their brains out. It was a nightmare that scarred me for life.
We appreciate your efforts. Keep it up.
Bringing it down is an important part of their job, though.
Will do.
Hey, I know that the dude from Air Crash Investigation.
Its sad Hanes is gone now 😞
Unless you were in Coober Pedy in South Australia last week!! 2 individual plane crashes, 3 hours apart, one being fatal, one serious injury!
we use aspects of crew resource management theory in Search and Rescue. Very interesting to hear about the origins of this process.
I love your DC-8 die-cast model !!!
LOVE to listen to Mr. Cox....
As they say, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Fly the plane, make sure the plane is going somewhere safe, then tell somebody.
I remember this crash in Portland I live in the Columbia river gorge my dad drove us by this crash the aircraft wasn’t totally destroyed like a lot of them for going through the trees like it did. It was amazing it held together. I was like 16 years old when that happened.
Wait is that the guy from Mayday Air Disasters?
Yes!
A tiny defect in the titanium fan disk on UA232 grew for almost 20 years until it broke apart, on the one plane with the most exceptional flight crew you could hope for. Complete loss of control of the ailerons, flaps, rudder, and spoilers, unbelievable anybody survived
Being a non pilot When I saw what scully had done in 2 full min BRAVO.. no wonder he had to retire everybody wanted him as their pilot post accident!!!!
I too know that guy from Air Crash Investigation for quite a long time
Good to know:
It's still 200K times more dangerous to be in a moving car than to be a passenger on an airplane.
Happy trails ✨️
You are usually not 30,000 feet in the air though. You very likely survive a car crash too due to safety advancements.
“What do pilots do when the worst case scenarios become reality?”
“Before we start, we would like to thank our sponsor for this episode, Boeing: If it’s Boeing, I’m not going”
YOUR OTHER PORTION IS AIRBUS, I BELIEVE THEY ARE FRENCH 🇫🇷
Boeing is still safe
@@DanielKolbinHMM, SECOND (2ND) PLACE SAFE.
@@PRECIADOR ?
@@DanielKolbinBOEING IS 2ND PLACE IN SAFETY
It's all good if you have more than one pilot. If you're by yourself, stay calm, and know the aircraft limits, and then if time permits, checklist -checklist-checklist..........
The first name of the captain at 8:42 is Chesley rather than Chelsea.
Yes! So unacceptable that they get that wrong.
This was heartbreaking…
From a pilot - not bad.
..that's a complement, English understatement style :)
"Not bad" -
Brilliantly illustrated in the book "King Rat" after the fine meal of a black market egg and coffee.
..provided by the "King", an American POW, to a British officer POW.
aah, good ol' capt john cox... 😁 you know time passes by when you realize the first mayday/aircrash investigation was first aired 21 years ago.. 😅
I love this video. Make more plz
Sioux City Iowa....that crew an the flight engineer that just happened to be on bored....they done a fine job using what they had to the fullest...an if anybody knows......yes the corn does grow that high in Iowa..👍👍👍👍
Wanna see a landing even more impressive than Sully’s but much lesser known?
Check out the Gimli Glider incident. If I didn’t know it was a real thing I’d think it was pure Hollywood
9:02 "Which runway would you like at Teterboro"
"This river seems good enough"
It's incredible that a jet can plow hundreds of feet through a wooded residential neighborhood at night and only have 10 fatalities.
We need the 🐐 Bob Benson
Think about the Tenerife disaster where a lack of CRM played also a huge role..
Great informative piece :)
As someone who loves watching Mayday: Air Disaster, I was like "Hey, I know you!" when I saw John Cox in the thumbnail
It’s fair to say the Tenerife disaster (1977) and BEA flight 548 (1972) both brought CRM into the spotlight, but for whatever reason the US we’re slower to consider it
I live in portland and watched that plane making slow low passes( living on mt scott below the normal flight path )until in horror we watched it slowly slam dowm in a new subdivision being built ,thank god they werent sold yet ,its something you never want to see and definately never forget RIP to the 10 souls lost ...im really suprised we never had any other major events that is until that door blew off last year, lucky crew and pasengers on that one 😮
Great video!
Very interesting, thanks!
My how things changed since CRM was introduced The Captain now had to understand and respond to inputs from other crew members Which really is just common sense
surprised WSJ doesn't put these behind a paywall.
NYT would have!
Gold.
great video
Captain John Cox must be related to Morgan Freeman. These guys never age!
Nicely done.
Part of the problem for the first accident was that the jet age was very new. In a piston airliner when the engineer says you have 5000lbs of fuel - that's a lot. In a low by-pass early age jet at low level it isn't. The Captain, with 27000 hours on piston airliners just didn't twig that 5000lbs isn't a lot of fuel...
Did he retire from the NTSB ? I never understood why Greg didn’t come on these ever so assumed while under contract he couldn’t do media like this unless a joint production with a proper credit in production.
I’m supposed to be asleep right now. Am I about to binge waves and waves of plane crash vids? Yes 🤦🏽♂️
He has also discussed the United Flight 232 crash here in Sioux City in 1989.
Brilliant story
Wow good unique topic and video
Flow
2:20 Flaps are down for landing, not up.
They aren't too concerned about accuracy, are they? They got Capt. Sullenberger's name wrong, too. WSJ standards are slipping.
@@cremebrulee4759 obviously the video was done by a intern..
7:20 - - 250 mph (80 mph too fast); 170 mph = top speed to land
8:11 - - 1904 - - mid 1930’s - - Airline Pilots Association founded - - 8:31
8:40 - - Cpt Sullenberger👨🏼✈️ lost both engines from bird strikes @ 3,000’
Shock can happen to anyone in a danger situation
To be fair CRM is handled differently around the world, for everyone saying it is important, yes, but I have read up on reports where CRM was ignored due to cultural reasons or a power dynamic at play despite the pilots going through a course on it, for example, Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509 where cultural expectations meant CRM was taught but not followed due to the first officer feeling like he could not speak up to his much more senior captain due to Korean culture playing a factor, despite knowing something was wrong, or cases in the US where flight crew don't feel able to speak up due to a captain who has been at the airline longer or is older than the F/O
Yup. This is what (sully) - A -
*Hero* looks like..