I come from a very Roman Catholic family, and we did everything we could to keep my father alive and with some quality of life. When there was no more that could be done, he came home on hospice and lasted about eight days. Our hospital (Presbyterian btw) strongly suggested he make an advanced directive, and he and Mom filled out theirs. While we believe that suffering can be redemptive, my family also knew that there's a point where medicine can do no more.
I don’t get into religious conversations for obvious reasons. Being a spiritual person I’d be happy to have “be back soon, reincarnation in progress” on my urn. Once again, a great informative video.
My dad's religious/spiritual views were something between reincarnation and animism. I've never seen someone who looked so content in death. I swear he was smiling. It makes death less scary to me, remembering that.
As a nurse aide in a nursing home decades ago there was a man there who's family had him as resuscitate. He was, literally, a skeleton with mummifying skin that was still breathing. Frozen in a bent and gnarled state, gasping breaths every 20-30 seconds, bed sores so bad that you could see bone and tendon, and he reeked from the odor of a cancer death. When he coded my mother, who was the nurse on duty, did what she was forced to do: resuscitate. The other nurse tracked down the doctor after 20 or so minutes of CPR and he demanded she stop and let him go. He said he'd accept the responsibility and the family can 💋his🍑. "I'm a devout Christian, but this goes against everything I became a doctor for."
With that sort of situation, I really feel like the family ought to respect what must surely seem like a divine force calling the old person to them. That's just needlessly cruel to have them be recusitated over and over.
I would have thought an exasperated Nurse would have told that family "He's called your father three times now, that IS your sign, now let him go!" ... I wouldn't have made it as a nurse...
I think the family or most influential family member who makes these decisions is dealing with their own fear of mortality. They don't see their cruelty because all they can think about it "Dad/Mom/Grandparent can't die because that mean's I will die and I can't deal with that"
I had a lot to say on this subject, but the more I organized my thoughts the more angry I became. So I'm going to refrain from adding them here. I'll just say that I have provided legal authority to people who are _not_ my overly religious family to decide on my medical futures, and I've had conversations with them concerning my wishes.
You always handle delicate topics elegantly, respectfully and yet with a dash of humor. That’s quite the tightrope to walk. Love and admire your style!! ❤
this is shocking to me; i guess i assumed that religious people would be LESS likely to have an over medicalized death and opt for a more natural death, in order to not supercede gods decision that its their time to go... thanks for the eye opening video!
@@tarmaque, it's the fear of, and guilt over, how their lives don't "measure up" to the Christian ideal. Many of these "Fundamentalist" Christian sects (from my observations in the USA) emphasize Judgement Day and how God will look at your "record of life" (while also espousing God's forgiveness of sins and how it's a "gift" that we cannot earn).
I am in the US and this seems especially crazy here because it costs a lot of money to keep someone alive and I suspect that even medicare doesn't cover it all. My uncle had terminal cancer and chose to get treatment to prolong his life and it was the treatment that killed and he wasn't religious as far as I know. My family is thankfully not religious so we know when to let go. My mom died suddenly this past september and while they did do CPR once she was gone she was gone. It sucks she was only 66 and while she had some health problems she seemed to be on the mend. I miss her like crazy and it makes me sad that she will not see her grandchildren grow up but I am also glad she didn't suffer.
one more question....Wasn't the 90 year old coding over and over a SIGN from their creator? I mean he kept repeating the request. I have an advanced directive and have several people to make sure that it is honored when it is my time. It was a difficult conversation to have but I have this conversation every now and again just to make my wishes known to my loved ones...this is what i want. I was raised Catholic... I am now agnostic.
My grandfather passed away last Christmas and we had him on hospice. He had leukemia and we had him on chemo which bought him some time, but it was so hard on him and we left it up to him to decide to continue treatments after completing chemo. We are a Christian family which means we don't believe in physician assisted suicide, but we do believe in preventing unnecessary suffering. We had him signed up for DNR also and basically left it to God on when it was time for him to go home. Life is precious and sacred, but at the end of the day we all die and there is a point when the individual and their family do have to say enough. But no one but them can decide when that is.
Wow, I had never thought about this. I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and I remember I have a friend that worked in the hospice the World Headquarters in NY has for those that worked there for a long time and often didn’t have kids so they could serve there fully. I dead no idea other Christian faiths felt like this. It’s truly heartbreaking :c no one should die like that We’re stinky encouraged to have our Advanced Care Directive and I know that we can chose what we wish in say we are in a coma for a prolonged period of time. We can chose to not continue, or to continue at all costs, just as a personal choice. I feel like more ppl need that.
This is Exactly why i have a DNR, have made a living will, and have expressivly stated on every medical form that i can, that i have NO Next of Kin. My emergency point of contact in medicsl matters is my GP, who is absolutely supportive, and knows that this is my decision and my decision alone. This was not done lightly , but this is the only way that i control how i leave, not some random person who may claim to be a relative.
I'm quite religious but a big part of my beliefs include accepting God's will. It's hard to accept His will in these moments, but to say you need a sign before accepting His will means you're actually trying to dictate how God's will is manifested.
As a non-religious person, I always just assumed those who believed in God would be eager to meet him, so to speak. But the older and wiser I've gotten the more I've learnt that there are many different angles to religious belief.
@@TabooEducation I figured mom would be wanting to reunite with her parents and with dad, but no, she was terrified. Possibly a guilty conscience as she finally acknowledged the hurtful ways she treated both my little brother and me. Or possibly the severe insecurity she always had about "what will the neighbors think?" but applied to her catholic deity. (which was not the same as the catholic deity I had once followed.)
@@TabooEducation What I found through the many losses I have been through in my life, religion isn't really the catalyst for a person's negative attitude towards death. It's their fears that really drive them to make crazy decisions and use their deity as an excuse to avoid facing the loss with grace and dignity. When we were told by the doctors that my son's body was shutting down after nearly 2 weeks in the PICU, we prayed for calm and guidance to decide what to do. Every ounce of my being wanted to have the doctors do everything to keep my son alive. However, I felt like God was calling my son home even though he was so incredibly young. Honestly, it would have been easy to ignore that feeling, to not pray for peace and calm, to be angry, and just say that God wanted him to live so do everything to keep him alive. I really didn't want to think about what God's will was in that moment. Instead, we turned off all the monitors, stopped fighting to keep him alive, and let him go peacefully. It was the worst experience in my life to hold him in my arms as his last breath left his little body, but we had the faith that it was God's will and that death would not separate us forever. I have since that day gone through many other family losses, some early some late. Really, it has been eye opening to see how people react to their fear of losing their loved one even having the same religious background as myself. Some face it with dignity and faith, some with anger, and others with such fear that they will do anything to stop it from happening. I have seen these people either say it's God will the person keep living at all costs, or tearfully say it's God will that the person is allowed to go on to heaven peacefully. Faith is powerful, but so is fear. It's a matter of which emotion you allow to be stronger that really matters.
My personal belief is that death is a gift, an end to the suffering that one receives when their life has come to a natural end (tragic passings fall in a different category). To rob someone of a peaceful end is one of the worst things someone can commit. Again, just my belief.
I was so excited to jump into the comments and see what sort of discussion was happening, but im too early. I dont have anything to add myself. Can someone ping me in a day so I can have a peruse?
Wonder how much this, as you touched upon, could be complicated by religion of next of kin. The patient could be of a different faith or none and wants to refuse further treatment, but if unconscious and a devout family member is calling the shots, it will probably be keep him/her alive at all costs. There was an episode of the TV show All in the Family about fifty years ago where Edith was talking with a resident of a nursing home where she volunteered who was upset that she was resuscitated after coding. The patient/resident was religious to some degree because she described seeing Heaven and her late husband welcoming her. She told Edith she didn't feel right, but rather than getting a nurse, just hold her hand. Next scene is in the directors office with the residents son yelling about his mom being allowed to die and demanding Edith, who was also in the office, be let go or he'll sue the home and report them
Haha, I've had an advanced care directive since I was in my 20's and dying of liver failure. There was too much of a risk of my mother trying to step in and take over things from my fiancée and physicians. I have no religion, and when it's time for me to go, let me go.
I think people need to see graphic photos of the internal damage done on people who receive CPR. I think some minds would be changed...not enough, but some. I don't understand religion at all. I respect what others believe, but I don't want any part of it.
Interesting topic well conveyed as always. Personally I am an atheist, directive written up no unnecessary intervention for me. It has always struck me as strange that religious individuals do not embrace meeting their God/Gods/Dietys. Then again most things religions do strike me as strange. Thanks for another fascinating piece.
Something I've seen a few times when I used to hang out on Catholic Reddit are people who were concerned when relatives chose palliative care over attempting to extend life. They were always told that is fine and that you just can't take actions where the intention is to shorten life. So you can give morphine knowing somebody may die faster as long as your intention is to prevent pain. At the same time I can see where people have the idea that as Catholics they most extend their lives and certainly the Vatican have been vocal on cases of withdrawing treatment from very ill children in the past here in the UK. I'm not sure if you've ever done a video around legal battles for withdrawing treatment.
my hypothesis is what you're seeing is more people's fear of death rather than being focused on the sacredness of life. The extremely religious are often that way because that is how they deal with anxiety about living, and their biggest anxiety is probably about growing old and dying. So when confronted with mortality, they want to do everything to fight it.
I think a big contributing factor is that many religious people are frequently reminded that God can work miracles at any moment and are often given the most dramatic examples of people defying odds at the last moment. So forgoing treatment that could add time to end of life is seen as a lack of faith that God could still miraculously heal them or their loved one. It's sad, but I do follow the train of logic they're using - even if I don't personally agree with it.
A lot of people REALLY REALLY dont want to die or REALLY REALLY dont want their loved one to die and I think they confuse their will with God's will. They are probably wanting a miracle or some supernatural, unmistakable incident that will assure them that they, or their loved one, is going to heaven because God said its their time to go. I think they feel prepared for death beforehand, but as it gets closer, it doesnt feel or seem anything like they had imagined, there is no religious ecstacy or they dont feel Gods presence or whatever it is they thought that the culmination of a life lived for God would be like, so this obviously (to them) isnt the end. The staff, not being of the same exact level of religious conviction and expectation as the patient or family, obviously would not know that it isnt time, because they are not the ones who are waiting on the particular unexplainable, unmistakable,overwhelming feeling or sign or whatever, that they know will signal the end. Before that happens, there is always a chance of a miracle. Ive seen someone and their whole family be likw this, even though the elderly man was at home and having outpatient treatment. It was the father of a friend of mine and her family was very religious. They knew it wasnt his time because God had not gave them peace about it. Thats what my friend said her mom told her. Looking back, I remember people talking like that fairly often, and then feeling that when the person doed, that God somehow left them out of what was expected. I dont think most of thos os cpnscious thought and reason, just feelings and a natural progression of how other events in life are dealt with. This is the absolute biggest thing to happen to anyone, and the reward for a Christian so its got to have some type of bells and whistles. I am not putting down anyones religion, i am going to point out something i noticed about denominations. All religions can have people who feel this way, but i live in the deep south in a rural area where there are mostly fundamentalist evangelical protestants who all depend on a personal one on one relationship with God, rather than the liturgy and ceremony and ritual that are in other denominations. Many of my friends go to chirches where they speak in tongues and people will faint or dance and the feeling is a very important sign to them from God. Even the more sedate Southern Baptists who dont do tongues etc, do put a big emphasis on feeling God. So, from where i live, i see people waiting on whatever feeling they expect. Sometimes they get it and sometimes they dont. I cant say what is or isnt real this way, I am Christian but a different denomination (Catholic - thete arent many of us whete i live) So i just rambled on a long time, im sorry. But i wanted to share the inside baseball i have found out from my 59 years down here in the south, where this is common. (I know i said sometimes they do get that feeling and are fine with letting go,sometimes they seem to get their miracle too. )
I've been watching American Hospice nurse videos lately... maybe subtly start sharing some of those. They explain the end-of-life process very well, and the two I watch also share stories of their patients' experiences in the months before their transition to whatever's next.
Interesting. I am ready to go (as a believer of the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross) and when I was in my early 50s having a surgical procedure I gave my eldest child my directive (mostly because I felt like she could "pull the plug" without losing too much sleep over it). I don't want to be resuscitated if I am not going to be 75% functional afterward (preferably better). I live in a temporary, biodegradable container. Once it's broken beyond repair, it's time to leave it behind. My faith believes that we will receive new containers that aren't breakable later.
Part of the problem here is about choice. The family or individual wants the choice of life/death to be taken out of their hands by God. It isn't that they want their family member to suffer but they don't want to death to be chosen by a human - that seems akin to suicide/murder.
My family are all Catholics and Lutherans, and while taking reasonable measures to preserve life is the standard expectation, this nonsense isn't something they want or do. The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh Away, and all that. The believers among them expect to be welcomed into eternal life anyhow, so an over-zealous attachment to this life when it is so clearly at its end would be a bit unseemly, if anything.
I’m Christian and I can say that biblically life isn’t sacred, and the over the top rush to save people at all costs isn’t backed by biblical text. It’s a personal fear couched in religious belief
I’m rather religious but this seems like a rather extreme way of thinking. Does the evidence mentioned say what the predominant sect of Christianity does this?
Yeah, there are different studies into different religions and sects of them (which I've just realised I forgot to add in the description, will rectify that now.) But 'rather religious' is not the ones they are talking about. It doesn't appear to be a particular sect but rather a particular personality type. But the terms 'fanatic' and 'evangelical' came up a lot. But if I say those words too many times in a video my channel will get striked.
@@TabooEducation Thank you. That is what I was thinking but I wanted to be sure. I am more knowledgeable about the Apostolic Churches and their practices.
@@naturalcambion3747, the term we use in the United States is "Fundamentalist" -- though some equate this word with "extremist" (and there are fundamentalists and extremists in MANY different religions, not just in Christianity).
@@bsteven885 That is what I thought but wasn’t too sure. I’m from the US as well but I’m not very knowledgeable about the Protestant denominations and their views on the death process.
An old joke that sort of expresses the broken faith of many religious folks. An older man is living in his family home when flood waters rise. An evacuation is ordered, and officials advise he vacates. "God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now" As waters continue to rise and surround 3 sides of his home, the national guard pulls up in a truck and tell him its the last chance to get out. "God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now" The waters continue to rise and the first floor is flooded. A boat pulls up to his home and tells him it absolutely his last chance to evacuate. "God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now" The flood will not abate, and floods the second floor, so he is stuck on the roof. A helicopter approaches and a rescuer ropes down to his perch and tries to compel him to evacuate. "God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now" Finally the waters overtake the roof, and he passes away in the flood. At the pearly gates he asks St. Peter... "Go has always taken care of me, he has always answered my needs, why didnt he help me this time?" St Peter replies. "Well, we sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter; what were you expecting?" Many folks(including myself on occasion) have our own ideas of what God's intervention should look like. Bullheadedly we ignore good advice and opprotunities because we impose our own ideas on God. It's not biblical, but it is human nature.
It's fascinating that we've gone from "God takes the one's he wants" to " I must try every treatment because life is sacred".
I come from a very Roman Catholic family, and we did everything we could to keep my father alive and with some quality of life. When there was no more that could be done, he came home on hospice and lasted about eight days. Our hospital (Presbyterian btw) strongly suggested he make an advanced directive, and he and Mom filled out theirs. While we believe that suffering can be redemptive, my family also knew that there's a point where medicine can do no more.
Ya medicine and medical help can only go so far
@@LuC-k777absolutely. His doctors did their best, and Mom and I prayed our best.
I don’t get into religious conversations for obvious reasons. Being a spiritual person I’d be happy to have “be back soon, reincarnation in progress” on my urn.
Once again, a great informative video.
My dad's religious/spiritual views were something between reincarnation and animism. I've never seen someone who looked so content in death. I swear he was smiling.
It makes death less scary to me, remembering that.
As a nurse aide in a nursing home decades ago there was a man there who's family had him as resuscitate. He was, literally, a skeleton with mummifying skin that was still breathing. Frozen in a bent and gnarled state, gasping breaths every 20-30 seconds, bed sores so bad that you could see bone and tendon, and he reeked from the odor of a cancer death. When he coded my mother, who was the nurse on duty, did what she was forced to do: resuscitate. The other nurse tracked down the doctor after 20 or so minutes of CPR and he demanded she stop and let him go. He said he'd accept the responsibility and the family can 💋his🍑. "I'm a devout Christian, but this goes against everything I became a doctor for."
That is just heartbreaking!
With that sort of situation, I really feel like the family ought to respect what must surely seem like a divine force calling the old person to them. That's just needlessly cruel to have them be recusitated over and over.
Agreed, but how someone can show respect means different things to different people. Which is how we get this result.
I would have thought an exasperated Nurse would have told that family "He's called your father three times now, that IS your sign, now let him go!" ... I wouldn't have made it as a nurse...
I think the family or most influential family member who makes these decisions is dealing with their own fear of mortality. They don't see their cruelty because all they can think about it "Dad/Mom/Grandparent can't die because that mean's I will die and I can't deal with that"
I had a lot to say on this subject, but the more I organized my thoughts the more angry I became. So I'm going to refrain from adding them here. I'll just say that I have provided legal authority to people who are _not_ my overly religious family to decide on my medical futures, and I've had conversations with them concerning my wishes.
When God keeps making someone code, pretty sure that’s a Sign.
just what I was coming to say. I am religious btw.
@@user-yc4fz7vv6u Episcopagan here
You always handle delicate topics elegantly, respectfully and yet with a dash of humor. That’s quite the tightrope to walk. Love and admire your style!! ❤
Thanks! ☺️
this is shocking to me; i guess i assumed that religious people would be LESS likely to have an over medicalized death and opt for a more natural death, in order to not supercede gods decision that its their time to go... thanks for the eye opening video!
You'd think so, wouldn't you. Why those who are so assured of heaven are so terrified of death has always puzzled me.
@@tarmaque, it's the fear of, and guilt over, how their lives don't "measure up" to the Christian ideal. Many of these "Fundamentalist" Christian sects (from my observations in the USA) emphasize Judgement Day and how God will look at your "record of life" (while also espousing God's forgiveness of sins and how it's a "gift" that we cannot earn).
@@bsteven885 Indeed. Much of what they are taught is politics, not scripture.
Love the warning in the beginning. Perfectly said!!!
I am in the US and this seems especially crazy here because it costs a lot of money to keep someone alive and I suspect that even medicare doesn't cover it all. My uncle had terminal cancer and chose to get treatment to prolong his life and it was the treatment that killed and he wasn't religious as far as I know.
My family is thankfully not religious so we know when to let go. My mom died suddenly this past september and while they did do CPR once she was gone she was gone. It sucks she was only 66 and while she had some health problems she seemed to be on the mend. I miss her like crazy and it makes me sad that she will not see her grandchildren grow up but I am also glad she didn't suffer.
you (and this) is why I finally got around to doing a living will and advanced directives. thank you!
one more question....Wasn't the 90 year old coding over and over a SIGN from their creator? I mean he kept repeating the request.
I have an advanced directive and have several people to make sure that it is honored when it is my time. It was a difficult conversation to have but I have this conversation every now and again just to make my wishes known to my loved ones...this is what i want.
I was raised Catholic... I am now agnostic.
That's exactly what I thought! How many times do you need the same sign to show before you are willing to read what the sign says???
My grandfather passed away last Christmas and we had him on hospice. He had leukemia and we had him on chemo which bought him some time, but it was so hard on him and we left it up to him to decide to continue treatments after completing chemo. We are a Christian family which means we don't believe in physician assisted suicide, but we do believe in preventing unnecessary suffering. We had him signed up for DNR also and basically left it to God on when it was time for him to go home. Life is precious and sacred, but at the end of the day we all die and there is a point when the individual and their family do have to say enough. But no one but them can decide when that is.
Wow, I had never thought about this. I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and I remember I have a friend that worked in the hospice the World Headquarters in NY has for those that worked there for a long time and often didn’t have kids so they could serve there fully. I dead no idea other Christian faiths felt like this. It’s truly heartbreaking :c no one should die like that
We’re stinky encouraged to have our Advanced Care Directive and I know that we can chose what we wish in say we are in a coma for a prolonged period of time. We can chose to not continue, or to continue at all costs, just as a personal choice. I feel like more ppl need that.
This is Exactly why i have a DNR, have made a living will, and have expressivly stated on every medical form that i can, that i have NO Next of Kin.
My emergency point of contact in medicsl matters is my GP, who is absolutely supportive, and knows that this is my decision and my decision alone.
This was not done lightly , but this is the only way that i control how i leave, not some random person who may claim to be a relative.
I'm quite religious but a big part of my beliefs include accepting God's will. It's hard to accept His will in these moments, but to say you need a sign before accepting His will means you're actually trying to dictate how God's will is manifested.
As a non-religious person, I always just assumed those who believed in God would be eager to meet him, so to speak. But the older and wiser I've gotten the more I've learnt that there are many different angles to religious belief.
@@TabooEducation I figured mom would be wanting to reunite with her parents and with dad, but no, she was terrified. Possibly a guilty conscience as she finally acknowledged the hurtful ways she treated both my little brother and me. Or possibly the severe insecurity she always had about "what will the neighbors think?" but applied to her catholic deity. (which was not the same as the catholic deity I had once followed.)
@@TabooEducation What I found through the many losses I have been through in my life, religion isn't really the catalyst for a person's negative attitude towards death. It's their fears that really drive them to make crazy decisions and use their deity as an excuse to avoid facing the loss with grace and dignity.
When we were told by the doctors that my son's body was shutting down after nearly 2 weeks in the PICU, we prayed for calm and guidance to decide what to do. Every ounce of my being wanted to have the doctors do everything to keep my son alive. However, I felt like God was calling my son home even though he was so incredibly young.
Honestly, it would have been easy to ignore that feeling, to not pray for peace and calm, to be angry, and just say that God wanted him to live so do everything to keep him alive. I really didn't want to think about what God's will was in that moment. Instead, we turned off all the monitors, stopped fighting to keep him alive, and let him go peacefully. It was the worst experience in my life to hold him in my arms as his last breath left his little body, but we had the faith that it was God's will and that death would not separate us forever.
I have since that day gone through many other family losses, some early some late. Really, it has been eye opening to see how people react to their fear of losing their loved one even having the same religious background as myself. Some face it with dignity and faith, some with anger, and others with such fear that they will do anything to stop it from happening. I have seen these people either say it's God will the person keep living at all costs, or tearfully say it's God will that the person is allowed to go on to heaven peacefully.
Faith is powerful, but so is fear. It's a matter of which emotion you allow to be stronger that really matters.
@@rrrosecarbinelaI totally agree. I think that rather than face their own fears, they just use their "faith" as a shield to avoid those emotions.
My personal belief is that death is a gift, an end to the suffering that one receives when their life has come to a natural end (tragic passings fall in a different category). To rob someone of a peaceful end is one of the worst things someone can commit. Again, just my belief.
I was so excited to jump into the comments and see what sort of discussion was happening, but im too early. I dont have anything to add myself.
Can someone ping me in a day so I can have a peruse?
Wonder how much this, as you touched upon, could be complicated by religion of next of kin. The patient could be of a different faith or none and wants to refuse further treatment, but if unconscious and a devout family member is calling the shots, it will probably be keep him/her alive at all costs. There was an episode of the TV show All in the Family about fifty years ago where Edith was talking with a resident of a nursing home where she volunteered who was upset that she was resuscitated after coding. The patient/resident was religious to some degree because she described seeing Heaven and her late husband welcoming her. She told Edith she didn't feel right, but rather than getting a nurse, just hold her hand. Next scene is in the directors office with the residents son yelling about his mom being allowed to die and demanding Edith, who was also in the office, be let go or he'll sue the home and report them
Haha, I've had an advanced care directive since I was in my 20's and dying of liver failure. There was too much of a risk of my mother trying to step in and take over things from my fiancée and physicians.
I have no religion, and when it's time for me to go, let me go.
I think people need to see graphic photos of the internal damage done on people who receive CPR. I think some minds would be changed...not enough, but some.
I don't understand religion at all. I respect what others believe, but I don't want any part of it.
God made physicians so Man doesn’t die in pain. God does a lot of SMDH about us.
Interesting topic well conveyed as always. Personally I am an atheist, directive written up no unnecessary intervention for me. It has always struck me as strange that religious individuals do not embrace meeting their God/Gods/Dietys. Then again most things religions do strike me as strange. Thanks for another fascinating piece.
Something I've seen a few times when I used to hang out on Catholic Reddit are people who were concerned when relatives chose palliative care over attempting to extend life. They were always told that is fine and that you just can't take actions where the intention is to shorten life. So you can give morphine knowing somebody may die faster as long as your intention is to prevent pain. At the same time I can see where people have the idea that as Catholics they most extend their lives and certainly the Vatican have been vocal on cases of withdrawing treatment from very ill children in the past here in the UK. I'm not sure if you've ever done a video around legal battles for withdrawing treatment.
I haven't done a video on that issue yet but it is high on the list
@@TabooEducation I imagine a very challenging topic to cover!
my hypothesis is what you're seeing is more people's fear of death rather than being focused on the sacredness of life. The extremely religious are often that way because that is how they deal with anxiety about living, and their biggest anxiety is probably about growing old and dying. So when confronted with mortality, they want to do everything to fight it.
Oh absolutely!!
I think a big contributing factor is that many religious people are frequently reminded that God can work miracles at any moment and are often given the most dramatic examples of people defying odds at the last moment. So forgoing treatment that could add time to end of life is seen as a lack of faith that God could still miraculously heal them or their loved one. It's sad, but I do follow the train of logic they're using - even if I don't personally agree with it.
A lot of people REALLY REALLY dont want to die or REALLY REALLY dont want their loved one to die and I think they confuse their will with God's will. They are probably wanting a miracle or some supernatural, unmistakable incident that will assure them that they, or their loved one, is going to heaven because God said its their time to go.
I think they feel prepared for death beforehand, but as it gets closer, it doesnt feel or seem anything like they had imagined, there is no religious ecstacy or they dont feel Gods presence or whatever it is they thought that the culmination of a life lived for God would be like, so this obviously (to them) isnt the end. The staff, not being of the same exact level of religious conviction and expectation as the patient or family, obviously would not know that it isnt time, because they are not the ones who are waiting on the particular unexplainable, unmistakable,overwhelming feeling or sign or whatever, that they know will signal the end. Before that happens, there is always a chance of a miracle.
Ive seen someone and their whole family be likw this, even though the elderly man was at home and having outpatient treatment. It was the father of a friend of mine and her family was very religious. They knew it wasnt his time because God had not gave them peace about it. Thats what my friend said her mom told her. Looking back, I remember people talking like that fairly often, and then feeling that when the person doed, that God somehow left them out of what was expected.
I dont think most of thos os cpnscious thought and reason, just feelings and a natural progression of how other events in life are dealt with. This is the absolute biggest thing to happen to anyone, and the reward for a Christian so its got to have some type of bells and whistles.
I am not putting down anyones religion, i am going to point out something i noticed about denominations. All religions can have people who feel this way, but i live in the deep south in a rural area where there are mostly fundamentalist evangelical protestants who all depend on a personal one on one relationship with God, rather than the liturgy and ceremony and ritual that are in other denominations. Many of my friends go to chirches where they speak in tongues and people will faint or dance and the feeling is a very important sign to them from God. Even the more sedate Southern Baptists who dont do tongues etc, do put a big emphasis on feeling God.
So, from where i live, i see people waiting on whatever feeling they expect. Sometimes they get it and sometimes they dont. I cant say what is or isnt real this way, I am Christian but a different denomination (Catholic - thete arent many of us whete i live)
So i just rambled on a long time, im sorry. But i wanted to share the inside baseball i have found out from my 59 years down here in the south, where this is common.
(I know i said sometimes they do get that feeling and are fine with letting go,sometimes they seem to get their miracle too. )
I've been watching American Hospice nurse videos lately... maybe subtly start sharing some of those. They explain the end-of-life process very well, and the two I watch also share stories of their patients' experiences in the months before their transition to whatever's next.
I think you've really hit the nail on the head here. Religion and how you apply it in your life also dictates how you face death.
This was an interesting one to watch!
Interesting. I am ready to go (as a believer of the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross) and when I was in my early 50s having a surgical procedure I gave my eldest child my directive (mostly because I felt like she could "pull the plug" without losing too much sleep over it). I don't want to be resuscitated if I am not going to be 75% functional afterward (preferably better). I live in a temporary, biodegradable container. Once it's broken beyond repair, it's time to leave it behind. My faith believes that we will receive new containers that aren't breakable later.
Part of the problem here is about choice. The family or individual wants the choice of life/death to be taken out of their hands by God. It isn't that they want their family member to suffer but they don't want to death to be chosen by a human - that seems akin to suicide/murder.
This comment really puts it into perspective
What is overly religious? We should live to serve God.
My family are all Catholics and Lutherans, and while taking reasonable measures to preserve life is the standard expectation, this nonsense isn't something they want or do. The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh Away, and all that. The believers among them expect to be welcomed into eternal life anyhow, so an over-zealous attachment to this life when it is so clearly at its end would be a bit unseemly, if anything.
How did accepting the will of God go so far astray?
I’m Christian and I can say that biblically life isn’t sacred, and the over the top rush to save people at all costs isn’t backed by biblical text. It’s a personal fear couched in religious belief
I’m rather religious but this seems like a rather extreme way of thinking. Does the evidence mentioned say what the predominant sect of Christianity does this?
Yeah, there are different studies into different religions and sects of them (which I've just realised I forgot to add in the description, will rectify that now.) But 'rather religious' is not the ones they are talking about. It doesn't appear to be a particular sect but rather a particular personality type. But the terms 'fanatic' and 'evangelical' came up a lot. But if I say those words too many times in a video my channel will get striked.
Baptists and/or Evangelicals I would think
@@TabooEducation Thank you. That is what I was thinking but I wanted to be sure. I am more knowledgeable about the Apostolic Churches and their practices.
@@naturalcambion3747, the term we use in the United States is "Fundamentalist" -- though some equate this word with "extremist" (and there are fundamentalists and extremists in MANY different religions, not just in Christianity).
@@bsteven885 That is what I thought but wasn’t too sure. I’m from the US as well but I’m not very knowledgeable about the Protestant denominations and their views on the death process.
An old joke that sort of expresses the broken faith of many religious folks.
An older man is living in his family home when flood waters rise. An evacuation is ordered, and officials advise he vacates.
"God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now"
As waters continue to rise and surround 3 sides of his home, the national guard pulls up in a truck and tell him its the last chance to get out.
"God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now"
The waters continue to rise and the first floor is flooded. A boat pulls up to his home and tells him it absolutely his last chance to evacuate.
"God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now"
The flood will not abate, and floods the second floor, so he is stuck on the roof. A helicopter approaches and a rescuer ropes down to his perch and tries to compel him to evacuate.
"God has always taken care of me, and he will take care of me now"
Finally the waters overtake the roof, and he passes away in the flood.
At the pearly gates he asks St. Peter...
"Go has always taken care of me, he has always answered my needs, why didnt he help me this time?"
St Peter replies.
"Well, we sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter; what were you expecting?"
Many folks(including myself on occasion) have our own ideas of what God's intervention should look like. Bullheadedly we ignore good advice and opprotunities because we impose our own ideas on God.
It's not biblical, but it is human nature.