Angry DM Relentlessly Targets Player
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Big thanks to u/Strahd_Von_Zarovich_ for sharing the story!
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"Don't be so glum. You're basically a fighter now." Bruh. If someone wanted to play a fighter, they would've rolled up a fighter. New or not, there's no reason to see the GM nerfing a character for AT LEAST 5 LEVELS and not say something.
Heard this story before and did some research in PHB & TCoE: based on what a paladin has if you take away their divine features, they're closer in power and utility to a warrior sidekick.
This GM made OP weaker than an NPC ally.
Yeah I was thinking, if a Paladin without any of its paladin features is just a fighter, then what's all the content in the fighter section about?
Yeah, it's odd. I have done this and the person became a unique Warlock. They kept grabbing and even sculpting with corrupt material. This was very obvious, the metal would just appear to drain light from the world. So they changed gods and their new pact was to the material itself, they had all their core spells but reskinned, and only damage types being a major change. So they are at the same level of power.
It was obvious what was happening or at the very least why. I mean they worshiped a sun god and are using an alloy called steelshade that makes things cloaked in shadow... sun god no like. They are betraying a god of light in heat by using icy-cold dark metal that eats away the sunshine.
In 1st edition paladins and rangers were just better than fighters, in every way. The strict moral codes were the drawbacks and the way you could lose your extra powers, becoming just a regular fighter. However most people couldn’t play ranger or paladin because of strict ability score and racial requirements.
Some of that carried over to second edition, but fighters got weapon specialization, and with the player’s options books they also got fighting styles. By 3rd edition the classes were open to the races and distinct.
In any edition though, taking away a paladins abilities is a big deal. And doing so without giving them a clear path back, or as a result of serious in game misbehavior is totally messed up.
Minus the second wind, action surge, and class abilities.
"YoU'rE bAsIcAlLy A fIgHtEr" Yeah, a Fighter without Action Surge, Indomitable, Second Wind, or any of their other class features. Sounds fun.
Yeah, how about you as the barbarian gets forced to an anger management group and cannot to use rage for the entire game, sounds fun innit?
Oops, its all fighters!
Or a subclass for that matter, so they’re basically a 1e Fighter in a 5e game
Warrior Sidekick at best reallt
So...basically 3rd Ed Fighter...which really only had a crap ton of Feats going for it...and none of the new stuff in 5th ed...
"You will ruin my plans if you leave! You're important to the plot!"
"So what you're saying is, I'm immortal."
I would be running in and tackling zombies and whatever else comes my way
The Agent of Chaos method of retaliation 😂
Once you know when you're going to die, what else do you have to fear, after all?
Pretty much agree with you, especially if the DM has been targeting with a lot of this non-sense. "So, your saying my downfall is planned already? Perfect, Im effectively immortal. Time to face check all the traps."
NICE COME BACK!😂
HAHAHAHA that's the spirit 🦀👑
A high level barbarian claiming its fair to literally strip all the class features away from a paladin because he gets armor is one of the more ridiculous things I've heard.
Considering a barbarian can easily have high AC as well, plus resistance to non-magical damage, yeah.
Let's tell the Barb that he's been knocked on the head and is a lot more level headed and can't rage or perform reckless attacks. Also he isn't getting movement speed increases and the only magic item he gets is a tunic that lets you ad your con modifier to your AC.
@@Nyghtking or all damage except psychic as Bear Totem
@@Nyghtking The Barbarian has the highest AC in the current party I'm running.
"You have a flesh eating illness consuming you skin from the inside, and I have an allergy to deep sea vulcanic vent shrimp - so quit whining, we all suffer!"
So let's see if I get this straight:
The GM took half of his character away out of some weird hatred for paladins or something at Level 5 and didn't give ANYTHING back until the dude was Level 12, while also only giving him a suit of armor with an ability that made no sense for him, a sword that can only hit once before BREAKING FOR THE DAY and his fucking FIRST LEVEL SPELL SLOTS - at LEVEL 12. All so he'd be a Fighter, rather than a Paladin, excusing it as "dude don't worry, I have a big story thing planned for you".
When the fuck was this story payoff even gonna happen? If it's a weekly game, then they probably spent around a whole month per level. With this estimation, they could've gone... What, seven MONTHS with no payoff about that story beat?
I honestly would've left much earlier than that - but I would've also explained in front of everyone how much of a stupid ass idea that is. He showered everyone with cool shit and gave the Paladin diddle dick because he wasn't playing the class he wanted? And the whole "whatever you pick is permanent" shit, gimme a fucking break - you CHOOSE what you give your players, and you chose to give the paladin a magic item that makes no sense for said PC, IT'S YOUR FAULT, NOT THE PALADIN'S.
As a GM myself, I feel more angry than anything hearing these stories. Fucking hell, I bet that GM even felt like he was in the right or some bullshit.
Personally I've just go and say "Oh, okay, my palladin performs a ritualistic self sacrifice to his patron god" after three sessions of this BS
What I find even more annoying, that DM is clearly experienced and has some great ideas. This story could have easily been noob dm tries to execute a cool story bit, but waits to long for a payoff. Instead this DM sounds like he is deliberately being a dick for no reason. Hell, he even gaslights the OP to continue playing a handicapped character "because it's good for the story". I've seen campaigns lasting 5 levels, not a fucking story bit
I agree about everything but one thing: He didn’t say his level 1 spell slots. He said A level 1 spell slot. Singular number.
I would literally be gone within the first 3 adventuring days worth of encounters if I suddenly had all my class features taken away for "story reasons." With an explanation like the one the DM gave, I'd probably call him out the very next session if I didn't get my shit back, and leave the session after that. That's absolutely infuriating.
I also doubt they were pulling a level every 4 sessions unless this DM was running solid combat nonstop, and if they were, then that's... even worse, actually. Imagine running well over 100 hours of D&D combat essentially doing nothing but the Help action with a single character.
Damn, goes to show the different experiences people have when, for me, time at a particular level is usually measured in months. Our weekly games tend to have long combats though, so it makes sense.
"You get more class features than I do."
"I'm currently getting more hit points and what boils down to a bunch of low level scrolls. That's not a Paladin, it's a Commoner with a library card."
"You have more features then me"
"In what way? all of my paladin specific features are unusable, my spells won't come back if I cast them, my lay on hands won't come back if I use it, and my aura isn't active.
I would have more if I was just a fighter."
"I cast paper cut!"
What’s funny is, he doesn’t get the most hit points. Barbarian does. It’s a d12 to his d10 hit dice.
"You're getting more features than I do."
"I can't use 80% of it. Your class is a full caster so you get high level spell slots more early. You have your subclass. You have your pact and the 4 eldritch invocations which are essentially mini features themselves."
To paraphrase The Order of the Stick: "Class features I can't access are no class features at all."
So the DM's logic was that by taking away the Paladin's spells and abilities, he was giving the other players more time to shine, but the problem there is that now the Paladin and the party (assuming they're good people) are going to go out of their way to find out how to get the Paladin their powers back, thus making them the center of the story.
And the fact that this didn’t happen tells you everything you need to know about not just the DM, but the group.
The Party got a lot of artefacts and magic weapon to boost them, Paladin got a Switchblade that works once per long rest.
That could be cool little side quests, FOR ONE SESSION though. Not for multiple. I really felt for them when that sword broke. That is devastating.
@@Zeromegas If they help shared it it would help everyone out, they could give the shield to someone else so the protection is doubled
@@BodharasExactly my thought. After the cool bit with paladin reaping the gem out of bard baddy, I would expect the party going to the church would lead to "uncover some sort of conspiracy with said church/ town/ evil cult", which would eventually lead to paladin dramatically getting back their powers while fighting a corrupted gem-bearing paladin this time (make him a devotee of the same god as OP for even cooler story). Perhaps OP would even get a cool item from the fallen enemy for all his troubles. +1 sword which gives the paladin an extra 1 level smite per long rest or a shield which gives him temporary hp when he protects an ally with his reaction (you know, something which actually compliments OP' fighting stile)
Never trust when the DM keeps saying 'it's for story reasons' with no actual clarification in situations like this. Too many horror stories say that this is code for 'Your suffering is amusing to me, and I want to keep you as my perpetual punching bag.'
It's complete bullshit. You have no guarantee that the story moment will actually happen. The entire campaign may fall apart tomorrow due to scheduling conflicts or life events. "Suffer now and you may have fun later" is a horrible offer in any context. If the DM wanted to do this properly, there would be a conversation between the DM and Paladin player, they would agree on the fall from grace, and there would be some sort of way that the character would still be relevant, like respeccing or multiclassing.
-I took away your powers for story reasons. Just you wait
-....i swallow that gem we took from the bard and dolphin dive into a bottomless pit
Yea I probably would have gone: alright so this has been SoonTM for a while now, so I plan to leave, Your last chance is explaining the payoff you have been promising.
@@CrizzyEyes In Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, Michael, the setting's equivalent of a Paladin (spoilers) at one point is horribly injured fighting, and retires. He's a homebody for a few books, then, for one big fight, an Archangel gives him his mantle, which confers certain advantages. The catch is, if he does anything not in the spirit of his faith, he'll not only lose the mantle, but the Archangel would lose it too, becoming mortal.
Had the DM not been a sadistic garbage person, he could've done something like that that could've given the OP some alternative set of abilities that fit whatever he was going for in his campaign. The "nerf" or w/e shouldn't have lasted more than a session or two regardless, and the DM should've asked the OP if they consented before any of this happened at all.
This is great life advice in general. Ive had a lot of bosses try to feed me the same type of bullshit.
“Contacting our god is outside of my powers” but like, didn’t he have to contact him to find out that the god thinks the paladin is dead?
Not to mention, Paladin's don't get their power from their God.
They get their power from their oath.
Unless OP broke their oath, there is no reason they should loose their power.
@@StalkerQtyathis is possibly going off the older edition’s idea of Paladin oath magics where it basically was like a warlock’s pact, only a bit more tied to actually caring about RP and serving the god in question…
@@Fey_Yoshida Wouldnt that just make you a cleric?
@@Nioureuxi was reading the comment thinking "yeah they might actually have a point" and then u said that and i now know the difference between a paladin and a cleric lmao
@@its_sisha_not_chair505 It did give me an idea though, A party with a paladin, cleric and warlock could share the same god but with different dynamics, which could lead to some fun roleplay opportunities. As a bonus this would also be a balanced in terms of tank, healer and dps roles.
I've taken away a player's abilities only once, and I had it last only two in game days. They had prepped for a demonic invasion they found proof of, but had misunderstood the target. Instead of it being aimed at the mortal plane, it was at the astral plane attacking multiple Good-Aligned Gods in one go, with the goal of stealing their divine sparks. It was successful, and the Cleric lost all of their divine spells as their God was one of the Gods effected.
The day after the first invasion the demons decided to celebrate their success by attacking temples all over the world, the party acting as protectors of one of them. After the demons had left, the survivors at those Gods' pantheons worked together to be able to start answering prayers again and giving back people's divine powers that were lost. Only lasted long enough for the missing powers to be felt, but didn't leave someone regretting their class choice.
Back in 2E, I had a player whose paladin was Lawful Good in name only. His evil actions would get his powers removed and then I'd give him a special penance quest to get them back. After all, deliberate actions have consequences. However, this kept happening so often it became a running gag for both me and the player (who enjoyed the ridiculousness of the whole scenario). It's the complete opposite of what happened here in today's post.
RIP Myth Drannor Geist; you & your player are truly missed and will never be forgotten.
The one time I did that it was a cleric of the god of war (whose anathema is to besmirch a battle by acting cowardly or dishonorably) for abandoning a fight where the other party members were struggling (but he was stillat full hp and had no reason not to keep fighting, but as soon as he took a hit he retreated to heal himself). His punishment was to have equipment he wielded grow a patina of rust and take a penalty to damage and AC until he felled a strong enough enemy to appease his god, which eventually happened.
My DM screwed me over with a Feeblemind spell once as a bard. INT, WIS, and CHA reduced to 3, couldn't use spells, couldn't speak, etc. He let me sub in a sorcerer for the following session and then afterward my bard was healed by a cleric in Baldur's Gate. Only a single session did I lose access to my character, and I was given the opportunity to play another character so then I wouldn't be dead weight and doing nothing while we were in a dungeon.
My DM uses some selected 'old' rules of 'negative levels'. Why? Because we were fighting a god of death and we had to sacrifice stuff to prevent it from sacrificing its own stuff as to PREVENT IT FROM UNMAKING ITSELF. We still don't know why it wanted to unmake itself but it felt important to keep the god of death up and running yknow.
We started by sacrificing HP, classic, whilst dodging powerful area of effect spells the god was casting around distractedly as it was focused on doing its own thing. We were basically bugs flying around, it wasn't paying too much attention, which is a cool way to handle the fight at our level I think. Then we sacrificed characteristic points, while still dodging shit, and finally it noticed that the orbs it intended on using to fill with its stuff were already full, so it started getting a little angrier. There we had to sacrifice whole LEVELS.
We didn't backtrack in our levels, we just substracted mxHP and some class features things, and with each passing week of rest, our characters would recover a level. So it never was meant to be definitive, it was only a really cool and creative way to make a fight intense and high stakes not only for the world, but for us personally. We are a heavy-roleplay group, so the next few days of rest for our characters were very interesting to play. Now though, it's only a bi-weekly game and I chose to sacrifice A LOT of levels so my character is starting to feel frustrating to play, as he still hasn't recovered fully - but that's my own fault. My DM however offered a way to get it faster by making a deal with a Rakshasa, which my character is reluctant to do for moral reasons - but at least I have the option. My DM's a good DM.
If I were that guy I'd just become an oathbreaker. Not for story, just to spite them. Can't be forgotten by your god if you don't have one.
yooooo...lol, that'd be hilarious. XD
same thought, i would went both oathbreaker and full murderhobo
Man, it would’ve been so satisfying if they pulled a “I didn’t abandon my god! My god abandoned ME!” The DM would’ve still screwed with them, I’m sure, but they’d have to get a lot more creative about it and I could see the party actively turning against that particular god after seeing the crap said deity allowed their friend to go through
@@cindygauthier8567 The party was clearly never gonna side with the paladin.
They never needed a god in the first place! You can just be an atheistic Paladin. The god was never a necessary part of the equation.
I've listened consistently for a long time now, but this story was the first one where I audibly at work said "Are you f***ing kidding me?" I went from being annoyed at the DM to being downright pissed off.
Yeah. This guy is a vindictive liar who loves torturing the one guy who is a social outcast IRL
Yeah, this is just awful DM'ing to the tenth degree
I’m right with you mate, I could literally feel my blood boiling hearing the story
That DM singled out the Paladin almost like he didn't like Paladins.
Or he didn't like OP and didn't have the maturity to just tell him he's not welcome at the table.
@@DHTheAlaskan I'm guessing that the DM don't like paladins and is planning to only give his powers back at the end of the final session
@@DHTheAlaskan this was my thought as well since he didnt nerf the cleric which has a similar feel but is based more on magic than melee as the paladin is..
I mean I hear a lot of people hate paladins due to either bad paladin players or a narrow-minded view of what paladins are
@@matthhiasbrownanonionchopp3471 seriously? thats just stupid since they are basically a religious fighter, no different than crusaders back in the day
"You're important to the story" eventually turned into the DM version of, "it's what my character would do."
"You are fated to play the hapless hireling tagging along as a sidekick. Stop whining and enjoy licking up scraps."
Barbarian's player was not helping OP. They were just trying to keep the group together, which is self serving, not altrustic or empathetic. If OP had been persuaded to stay, the group was not going to actually treat OP better. They would give the minimum necessary to placate and then go back to sidelining them out of the game and guilt tripping them into staying.
OP had nothing to apologize for. Leaving without explanation was appropriate back at level 5, say nothing of level 12. I get that OP needed social connection, but they would have been better off leaving the group way earlier amd spending that extra time looking for other people and hobbies to try out.
No D&D is better than bad D&D.
@@PlehAP it always was
Being a new player yourself is no excuse. OP VERY CLEARLY explained his worry and everyone was like 'don't be selfish!' They were more concerned with their own fun rather than OPs, and there was NOTHING happening to any of them at the same level of kneecapping. OP was right to cut ties.
Some people are really tunnel vision in regards to their experiences and feelings and it's definitely not a good way to be. Literally "I'm having fun so you must be having fun too and just want to be special". You see the same thing in politics too, like "I don't have health issues so your health issues must be over exaggerated or made up", or "I've had the same job for 28 years so your inability to find a job must be fake.". I hope these kids wake the hell up and realize not everyone is living the same life.
Mmhmm! Glad OP told off barbarian too.
Really highlighted his self worth when the chips are down.
Hope barbarian players learns from this.
I’m willing to cut them a bit more slack because they are new players. It’s very common for new players to assume DnD is all about them instead of being about everyone
@@CoOlKyUbI96 I cut them slack for maybe the first three or four sessions. This sounds like it went on for **months.** And I can't cut the DM any slack at all. I had an experience very similar to this at the hands of "experienced" players, and there is no excuse for such a complete lack of communication.
For the DM: when your story becomes more important than the fun and mental well-being of your players, what you **actually** want to do is write a book and leave the rest of us alone.
Yeah, I don't wish it on any other player, but I just know that, if the DM decided to kneecap their players for whatever reason, they'd be singing a different tune. I just hope they still learned to not only prioritize their own fun
Methinks this is a case of "DM should've written a book"
Sounds to me like DM here decided to make Paladin his main character or something, and became so focused on the epic story payoff he completely forgot there's a _real human person_ behind the character, and that said human is here not to wait for the payoff, *but to enjoy the journey*
Like, let's bring up The Hobbit- reading about helpless Bilbo is fun, but if I had to _play_ the story I'd rather be one of the dwarves
Right? We’re all pretty helpless in real life. If I’m rolling up to the table, I want to play as someone who has the power and ability to make an impact on their world. I wanna escape real life for a bit, not feel helpless
The way OP was treated it is CLEAR the DM had no story plan, no intent WHATEVER to make OP anything but what he was.
I just think the DM was going to say his Patron God was the one behind the attacks and didn’t want the Paladin to fight against their deity and thus took their powers. Either that or the dm was being an ass cause they killed the Bard Swordsman so easily and wanted petty revenge
@@darkarcheosbut the DM is the reason that Paladin was able to kill the sword bard. OP was going to make a death save but the DM was like, “Actually, you just wake up and see something under the guy’s shirt”
Personally I'm all for playing helpless characters, but that has to be my choice, with approval of the rest of the group and DM since it is a large departure from standard D&D.
I absolutely would not want to play a heroic figure that gets stripped of all their useful features for any extended period of time.
Sounds to me like the pos DM just didn't want to deal with a Paladin, and instead of dealing with it like an adult he went with the most passive aggressive plan ever.
@@TigerW0lf Yeah, I mean. I don’t think I have dm seen such a waste of potential in a long time. The amber gem is a key item, they have it. The person who is targeted has it!
You can do anything with this! How is this not a heroic action? This is awesome! They have an item it can do… whatever you want it to do!
It was probably because he was planning all the undead encounters and didn't want to deal with divine powers, thats why he thought it to be a good idea to make a real person only use "help" for 4 months
I 100% agree. This seems like something done to neuter a character who he either had a personal grudge with, or a dislike of the class itself. I would personally think it's the actual class itself. Sounds like thought the class was overpowered and he had to nerf it to make it 'balanced' but then turns around and wraps that in a shitty story and says 'see, it's important to the plot'.
@@luukbooister3116 yeah thing is you can beef up the undeadlings to deal with said divine powers instead of nerfing the one using them,...thing is that was not even the case here since the cleric has spells to deal with undead as well and wasnt nerfed so i doubt it was the divine powers itself, but for some reason disliked the paladin pc and WANTED him to feel bad/useless, the DM gets minus points here
Just sounds like the dude had this all planned prior and couldn’t be adult enough to adapt his game and this is entirely his tantrum
Holy shit, I can not even imagine sitting by and watching another player essentially get bullied for months. This DM is actually an animal and saying "it's for the story it's so good" is such a cop out excuse, the player is telling you very plainly that they are having a bad time and are looking for an excuse to stay.
And worse than that. They enabled the DM. They gaslit the paladin as much as possible to shut him up. They acted like he was the issue, the disrusption, the ungrateful one, like he had it better than them so how dare he interrupt their fun? They never apologized (yet HE DID?) even after he gave up for many very good reasons that he pointed out, and they pretty much let him go like a used sock. The DM was just an incompetent asshole who wanted the campaign to go his way, players be damned, though i guess not even letting the player change character calls into question if it really is just paladin hate.
But something about the players makes my blood boil even more, in many ways i find them far worse than the DM. They treated the paladin like he meant less than nothing, and he probably did to them, the only thing that mattered was their fun, never gave the dude a single thought. It's sickening and cowardly. First time players excuses none of this, the DM is obviously trying to make the dude as miserable as possible, and you aren't just letting it happen, you're justifying it and condoning it, if not borderline encouraging it and cheering it on. Then they have the gall to act concerned for a second or two but not a third. Critcrab gave them way too much credit imo, after the fallout there was no longer any benefit of the doubt to be given. Even at that point they didn't really root for him, dude must have felt like he was the one being crazy.
They seem like the kinda people who act like your friends then backstab you when you are at your worst, completely snakey. At least with the DM you know he just has it out for you. Felt more like the BBEG was the DM and they were his cultist minions lmao. Now that's a campaign OP deserves to play.
I'd have probably started running a side game with that player if i was in that group. Or were I OP, I'd just start doing the stupidest shit since I'm an immortal mcguffin now. Gotta get down the ice? "I'll just cannon ball off, what's the save?" Lol I'd be doing all the trap checking with my face, running in first screaming and yelling to attract all the monsters, I'd just pawn off the useless items for literal chump change. And just be on my phone, showing other players memes about DM red flags lol
"Behold man's final mad disgrace. He chops his nose to spite his face."
-Etrigan-
Seeing some random Etrigan love makes me all warm and fuzzy.
Were best friends now after that quote
Etrigan mentioned
Here's something every dm should remember
"You may be the creator of the world, but you're inviting others into it to have a good time."
-me, i made that up
I haven't ever actually DM'd for a group but in my one-on-one RP sessions I always say at the beginning "This is an alternative version of my universe" I do this to clarify to them, but also to myself, that anything can happen. Important story-bound characters? If you can kill them or recruit them or whatever it's oke. Cause the alternate universe is their playground, not my chronicles. They wanna side with monsters and destroy the Human capital? Well why the heck not xD
This is a tangent but i hate when commenters makes up a random phrase and goes "- someone said it" like tf u afraid for? Step up to your phrasing mf. But anyway adequate saying
Bro, throw the whole party away. Idc if you're a new player, deliberately removing what makes a paladin a paladin is obviously bad design.
Its possible yo do it in a way that everyone still has fun. This was... very much not that.
It makes sense if it’s because he broke his vows. It makes sense if it is short term, the players can quickly divine how to resolve the issue, and that the paladin will be stronger for the experience. None of this was the case.
@@robertaylor9218 honestly I thought we'd find out what was actually the Dm's plan. but after the party leveling 5 or so times I also don't care about the plot.
Disagree, I rarely let players run paladin in my games, it's better for everyone involved if people run fighters instead
Also, a nerfed paladin isn't "basically a fighter." Fighter has feats, skills, and abilities that make them a Fighter. Which a paladin wouldn't have access to.
I relate to this OP too much. Not knowing better and having a gaslighting Dm tell you you’re the problem.
When I was new I didn’t know it wasn’t normal to have your dm describe your character wetting themselves after failing an intimidation save and have npcs mock you for it or be forced to roll for dick size.
Good ol’ crabbo actually helped teach me what shapes a normal game in his Skyrim gameplay phase. Thanks, King!
Didn't any of your fellow players take you aside and go "Ummm....this ain't right, you shouldn't take this."
"Everyone settled in for today's session? Great. Now unzip your pants, it's Penis Inspection Day."
@@MarquisLeary34 No, they thought it was funny. So eventually I thought “He can’t make me a clown if I make myself a clown!” and made a new character who was this Zoidberg type quack doctor with a bunch of crazy stories about all his malpractices. They loved him so much. Also helps that he rolled 9 inches on the dick die.
@@MarquisLeary34 99% odds they didn't because it wasn't them being mocked so they didn't care.
"roll for dick size" Sounds like that DM secretly wanted to run FATAL. Roll for anal circumference!
God this genuinely hurts to watch. This is so abusive...
It is, and even more when the player just lets it happen. It's as much his fault at that point. He didn't have to put up with it. He had the option to leave. Noone had a gun to his head.
@@MarquisLeary34 i refer you to the fact that even IRL he was lonely and needed this group thig to cope, not ideal but i understand it, as i have done this myself not to this degree perhaps but i have done so, but when the DM does this to you thats insane and to be fair, he took it longer then i did/would have which says quite abit about his self control, the DM in this case was an absolute SHITE to the paladin
@@MarquisLeary34 as someone who is neurodivergent and used to get bullied, sometimes you are so socially isolatwd that interacting with bullies is better than not interacting with anyone at all. It reminds me of the times I used to play CoD with the guy that made fun of me the most during school hours because he was the only person willing to hang out with me (mostly to find more things to ridicule me for but I didn't care, it was better than nothing)
As critcrab said, socializing isn't a choice, it's a need
@@Guardian582 I've been lonely too. Even then, bad relationships and interactions were still better than loneliness. Bad D&D is worse than No D&D is a saying for a reason.
@@MarquisLeary34 no always therein lies the problem
The “arguments” from the other players on why OP shouldn’t be mad his kit is getting taken away are bafflingly frustrating. ‘You get a fighting style and I don’t,’ ‘You get armor and I don’t,’ okay??? The Warlock gets more spells than a Paladin, the Barbarian gets Rage and some pretty busted subclasses, and the Paladin’s heavy armor is actually a detriment in dex situations as the story goes on to prove.
I get that these are new players but both those players chose to play as those classes so they clearly liked them more than the Paladin class or it would’ve been Oops All Paladins in here so what the hell are they whining about???
True. If a Paladin is so busted WHY NONE OF YOU PRICKS ARE PLAYING AS ONE ASWELL?!
That was confusing to me too. Yall got to choose. If the barbarian wanted armor then choose a fighter. If the warlock wants more spells then choose a sorcerer.
Yeah, there's no excusing anyone in the party. Who cares if it's their first game, my question is, how old is everyone? OP is in college, so I'd assume everyone else is roughly the same age. They're more focused on themselves than others. What, are they fucking 6? Are they so young that their brains haven't finished forming?? Noticing that someone else is upset is something that teens can do. Where was the after session discussions? Did any of these bastards even bother talking to each other outside the game? And notice that besides a snide, "Why do I have to heal him?" comment, the Cleric player is basically never mentioned. The DM is a total POS, but the players, imo, are worse. The DM knows what he's doing, the players are happily committing bystander syndrome even when the Paladin voices his issues.
XD Their arguments all amount to "Shut up! We don't want to hear it."
The first few minutes had me wondering how this was gonna go bad, it started so well...
The calm before the storm
Same, sounds like the DM is a great storyteller, but not that great of a DM if the story takes priority over players' fun from playing the game.
And then it just went downhill. REAL FAST.
Worst part about this is hearing that the warlock was casting fire bolt instead of eldritch blast
the one thing power gamers and casual players can agree on: A warlock isn't a warlock without the blast.
Can Eldritch Blast melt ice? Because if not, it wouldn't have been much help in trying to defrost Barbarian before he suffocated/froze to death.
@TheEmeraldWeirdo eldritch blast wouldn't melt the ice. However, in that situation, you would actually want to break the ice as melting it would be so slow, making the force damage of eldritch blast the obvious choice.
@@Aceofspades209 Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
@@brimfire7536 You say that, but I let a warlock switch pacts to a divine pact (there was a lot of lore, a specific quest, a wish spell involved) and he chose to forgo blast in favour of sacred flame as a primary cantrip. I told him he didn't have to after a session of sacred flame being sacred letdown, but he insisted it was more lore fitting.
Luckily now he's got some magic items fancy spells to occupy his turns now.
This DM is a fuggin' dumpster. New or not, stripping a character of all their powers for SEVEN LEVELS is insanity.
More than that, cause the character NEVER got them back.
Player: "Am I still wanted in the campaign?"
DM: "Of course, I can't run it if I don't have a punching bag to torment so I can feel like I matter something in my own life"
The train went upside down, Sideways, and even went through three different dimensions just to crash
DM: hey don't leave you'll ruin the game
Me: the game was ruined the second you decided he's the group mascot
Sounds like the DM's idea of a game was to abuse the player.
"But what happens when the DM sees exactly one player and dedicates himself to making it impossible for that player to enjoy the game?" SIMPLE!! YOU HAVE A SIERRA SITUATION!!!
Good grief, how many Sierra/Bravo-style "Tyrant DM's" are out there?!
Is that another story?
@@tea-sus8722 Yeah, there's a whole saga about it. I think either CritCrab or Crispy covered it (maybe both)
@@tea-sus8722 Yup. Link down below in my reply to Georgercop.
@@tea-sus8722 Yup, it's the "Wrath of the Girlfriend" series.
ua-cam.com/video/8-aJ4-IiMGs/v-deo.html
@@georgercop I KNOW Crit covered it, and maybe Drake
There is absolutely no excuse for the players' behavior. They not only noticed OP was unhappy, but *chastised* him for complaining about it. It wasn't until he was leaving that anyone offered support. It's a classic case of 'I don't care until there are consequences." Even if it's not how they meant it, that's sure as hell how it feels.
This went from "Nothing wrong with this" to "UNTIL LEVEL 12?! WTF HE SPENT 7 LEVELS AS NOT A PALADIN" throughout the story.
He spent more levels as a civilian with a library card than as an actual Paladin
Poor guy was reduced to a weaker version of a warrior hireling.
I'm a DM and I'm running a 3 campaign trilogy. Starting level 1 and going to 20. We do breaks in between the campaigns but are currently in the 2nd campaign and we've been using these characters for a year and a half...they literally reached level 12 today. Obviously they are leveling up much faster. But still that shattered my brain. I don't think anyone would enjoy that
Ah yes, I know this story. It's called "The Forgotten Paladin." It's really soul crushing.
That's actually sad
The fact that the rest of the party isn't standing up for the Paladin says a lot about them as players. Plus it's totally BS to take away things that your class gets in the PHB.
I mean, i get it that they new to the whole thing, but constantly not seeing this kind of treatment for the only player is baffling and infuriating
"I'm giving everyone else the spotlight now. But you'll have a bigger part soon enough." No you quit at that point. He doesn't realize this is a TEAM game. I'm all for arcs and story hooks. But literally having your DM flat out tell you "Oh yeah. I'm literally gonna make you the MC if you keep playing."
Even the "story reason" were weak too. "Perform acts of heroism to grow your strength" is literally the bedrock of DND. He literally just told OP to level up and maybe ill let you have your powers back. Meanwhile every single person at the table felt justified? Fuck that and fuck them all.
I'll be honest, had I been the paladin I would have multiclassed to a Divine Warlock (patron being an Angel, not a God, he'd have all his powers) or started researching alternatives.
"I'm multiclassing to Cleric."
"Kelemvor still won't notice you."
"But the Raven Queen will." (for those who don't know, the Raven Queen is the Goddess of Death in another setting that is cotangent to the one where Kelemvor works - basically, I'd be telling the DM that I quit the Coca Cola company to go work for Pepsi)
Seriously, I'd fire up Internet to bring up ANY AND ALL compatible Divines, whether they are D&D based or not. Hell, I'd start worshipping Silent Whisper, for what matters! (for the many who don't know, Silent Whisper is the Goddess of Death in the Everglow setting - Pathfinder based, D&D5 compatible - the PONY Goddess of Death. Yes, my character would be worshipping a bone white cartoon pony with a skull cutie mark)
Bold of you to assume the DM would let him have the powers he gets from doing that.
The GM would just say ‘if Kelemvor couldn’t detect you, none of them will’. The most confusing moment was having a Cleric talk to him, succeed and communicate, and just say “sorry lil bro, I can’t tell him’.
And the god shouldn't even be needed, Paladins are powered by conviction in the oath, they can be atheistic and still have divine powers (no it doesn't make sense that the powers are divine with no divinity behind them) "all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
How childish of that DM, the amount of passive aggressive bs he dished out, I genuinely hope he has changed his ways or just packed up on DnD as a whole cause no one needs to endure this kind of treatment in a game that's supposed to be fun and social. I'm just glad OP had an amazing friend pull him back and actually show him the fun of DnD
I don’t think he could or would. This was a deliberate campaign to power play and abuse OP. From denying almost anything from him, making him waste resources, denying any changes and doing it all to a new player who wouldn’t know better is super malicious. He won’t stop. He will just find a new person to sit on and shit on.
tbh I hope the DM's like the one here and from other horror stories of bad DMs all get karma slapped by a DM who has taken notes of ALL their bad game designs and just make all those bad game designs into the core part of the most vicious endurance grinder of a campaign. just see how much of their own crap those bad DMs can actually take before they wake up and realize "oh that's a bad design and I was a dick."
Congrats, CritCrab. You found a story that, for the first time, actually pissed me off. This DM sucks.
"Don't be so glum. You're basically a fighter now."
No, fucking not!
He is a level 2 fighter with an extra attack, without his subclass features.
That DM isn't even bad it takes some serious skill to be so absolutely sadistic. This entire story is just an abusive relationship. Holy hell, that was toxic.
Been there. Spent 7 levels with a powerless paladin who fell into a trap by the DM to ask the help of a devil not knowing it was a devil. He even made me lose my bastard sword, in which I had spent a feat to use.
Hmmm? I don't understand how that would make you lose any powers... Asking someone for help without knowing they are evil is not an evil act. Evil requires intent. Doing wrong without intent isn't evil, it's negligence. Paladins don't lose powers for being lied to.
@@davidarmstrong1617 exactly. It was a case of DM disliking me.
@@aloisiosenra Which makes even less sense.... Why would you spend any of your precious free-time associating with anyone you didn't like? Seriously, there are no shortage of D&D players out there - whenever I need to fill a vacancy, I get multiple inquiries within a few hours of posting an opening. I'm very selective about who I admit, because I don't want to spend my Sundays with anyone that gets under my skin. The few that have slipped through initial inspection are turned away before they become a regular annoyance. So if your DM disliked you, why not fill your seat with someone whose company he enjoys? It makes no sense to keep someone around that you don't like.
@@davidarmstrong1617 Speaking for myself, I was a socially starved teenager back then and I enjoyed being around the other players. Nowadays, I'd never do such a thing as to remain at his table. The DM was just a sadist, probably, a bully of some sorts.
@@davidarmstrong1617 "Why would an abuser waste their time abusing their victim, and why would an abuse victim let their abuser abuse them??!?!?"
That's how ridiculous you sound, seriously. Obviously bullies and abusers target vulnerable people, and vulnerable people are, by definition, unable to easily escape their situation.
I can only scream this to the heavens so much. You are not here to tell a story as a gm. You are here to discover the story together. And for the love of god, players SPEAK UP if you aren't having fun. And if there's no recourse, LEAVE.
How would a god "not see" when one dies? And ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS. Without actually giving it an exeptional reason as to how or why.. this is not just bad Dming, its bad world building and story telling.
Not only that, he's the classical shepherd of the dead deity that is supposed to keep track of everyone who dies.
Right? When I heard that, I was thinking that would actually be a huge, and really interesting clue, about what’s really going on in a campaign run by a more competent DM. Like, has that god been replaced? Have their powers been blocked in some way (and by who/what)? Is that god actually dead or dying?
I can understand not every deity knows everything. Despite us thinking they are all knowing, they aren't. They can have gaps in their memories, or simply be unaware of something, but the idea that a deity doesn't know if one of their servents is dead or not is pushing the suspension of disbelief too far, especially when that deity is the Forgotten Realm's version of Pharasma (Pathfinders impartial and ever fair goddess of death.)
Also, here's a plot-hole that I can't believe wasn't mention. You have this Paladin who didn't show up to be judged by his deity? Okay, that's already kinda suspicious, but the fact that the Paladin went to ANOTHER servent of his deity, the servent rang up said deity, asked him "hey, I have a Paladin of yours who can't smite, wha'ts up with that?" finds out that the God of Death was expecting you, but didn't receive you, and now just doesn't care despite knowing the Paladin is alive?
If it was any other deity it could be an interesting case of the God of the Dead telling them that OP was dead, to take his champion out of the picture.
OP had mentioned his problems many times. The other players only backed up the DM, and never once OP. Its not that they didnt notice his struggle, they didnt care. And neither did the DM. Horrible players, and even worse "friends". I do hope they had a realization moment thye learned and grew from. Otherwise they're likely just continuing to ruin DnD for others.
Odds are he was the "tag-along nephew" who they brought along because they had to but gave the crusty barely working controller to who maybe got to play one or two rounds and had to sit out the dozens that the others got the play without him.
What the DM did to OP is absolutely unacceptable, but I can't help but wonder what the motivation and end goal was...
This is why it's so important to have regular conversations with your players and have a little transparency. The more I listen to these DM horror stories the more I am so grateful for my amazing DM, Grendle if you ever happen to see this, you're the best!
It would be best if you told Grendle that directly. I am sure he would love to hear a praise or two. ;P
My theory is that the DM was trying to kill the paladin, at which point his god would notice him again and revive him or something
@@darkpaul1uxgaming269 oh I tell him all the time. The guy gets props from me after every session. Amazing DM.
I don't think transparency is the issue here. I just feel like the DM (and in a somewhat more benign fashion, the other players) simply didn't have the player or their wellbeing in mind at all.
My theory is a hate sink. Bullies will single out someone to get all the bad luck, usually the weakest willed as they're likely to stick it out. This is my only explanation because if it was a problem with the class or the player, the DM would have jumped at the first opportunity to adjust either, like straight up killing the character, or suggesting "this is my story, you don't have to play but I'm not changing my story" instead the player was essentially gaslit into sticking around which is common tactic of abusers.
The "Your class has more features than mine" moment and other mockeries directed at the Paladin really show, at least to me, that no one at the table cared about their fellow player not having fun anymore. They always saw how miserable he was, they just didn't care.
No matter what, this was handled badly. I've read comments saying that Paladin might have been a That Guy (based on implications from the cleric that he 'needed healing again'), but even if that was the case the group/DM should have said so directly. "You're being a problem player and you should leave" is an awkward conversation, but the way Paladin was treates is not ok.
And if you assume incompetence over ill intent, that iust makes it worse. I've seen speculation that the DM got caught up in planning something Tolkien-esque, which is a definite possibility, but he still should have been responsive to repeated questions about the state of the character and the pretty clear circumstance that Paladin was not having fun. Ditto for the rest of the party.
Do not forget that EVERY session OP was asking them if there was an issue and if they were even wanted at the table. There are no excuses from either the DM or the other players
OP was right to call out Barbarian as they didn't speak up and only offering condolences out of guilt/pity at the end to make themselves feel better
Shit right i forgot that part. Right away it didn't sit right with me. Telling the player "ugh, gotta heal you again" then the DM saying you don't have to, and they don't. It's not a joke, it's legitimate passive aggressiveness. There were already issues at that point, and i'm NOT enclined to believe they were because of the paladin. There's just too many red flags that suggests the other players were complete a holes to the paladin.
@@adriannaranjo4397 "only offering condolences out of guilt/pity at the end to make themselves feel better"
This is absolutely what i think too. It just started to hit the guilty conscience of the barb a bit too much. Nothing about this group implies that they saw him as anything more than a nuisance, let alone a friend. I find their behaviours during the peaks of the DM's abuse to be even lower and backstabby than the DM's abuse.
22:20 I’M SORRY I’M THROWING HANDS WITH THE DM!!! THIS GUYS IS JUST BEING EVIL TO YOU OP
I literally punched the air at this part.
As a little baby DM these stories make me feel so much better about my capabilities
Absolute BS.
Paladins get their power from their oath, not from their God.
They are not clerics.
Unless OP broke their oath somehow, they wouldn't be able to loose their power.
This, I am surprised more people are not bringing this up, the god was never needed.
@@Thk10188965It’s a huge hang up from past editions
People just don’t understand the difference sadly
To be fair, in older editions the bond to a god is much closer and the oath is more of a code of conduct approved by said god. While this generally isn’t the case in 5e, I have seen a few groups that chose to do it that way instead of the oath.
@@SeptimusCreed that
23:50 - I think the player was right to call out the other players for not supporting him, I get that sometimes people can be deep in their own worlds and not notice someone else is not in the same great space, but there are several points in the story where the OP openly spoke up and even asked the other players to support him, but they actively pushed back, because they were having fun. This isn't a matter of ignorance, this is wilful ignorance, where you know someone else isn't getting the best outcome, but because it's not you, and things are great for you, you just intentionally ignore it. The players are really just as culpable as the DM at this point, it's beyond ridiculous that they can't see the disparity in how the OP is being treated, versus how they are being treated. You don't need to be experienced in D&D to see that, you just need to not have your head up your ass.
I was bullied my entire youth and childhood, and this story is clearly about bullying. If someone in my D&D group had tried to pull that off I would have let hell rain down upon them.
I have a too strong sense of justice, so these stories enrage me too much to listen to them
This sounds like it would be sick… if it lasted like 2 sessions. And of course giving him a plot line to follow and get it back clearly and quickly.
If you want to see this trope done extremely well, watch Dimension 20's fantasy high (specifically the second season)
Falling from Grace is a well used plot thread, specifically referenced in the rules in every edition containing Paladins. The problem is that it needs to be hashed out with the player first. You really cannot just make a fundamental change to a player's character without telling them about it and expect them to be pleased that you've taken the reins.
And be stronger for the experience. Be it a contact, a magic item, an innate ability, or special character knowledge that benefits him from time to time.
@@CrizzyEyesespecially because this sounds like it was for a half dozen levels.
I agree. It would have been more excusable then. But no change until level 12??? Really??? That’s way too long
Someone must have told the DM that Paladins are OP so he decided to completely nerf it himself for no reason.
While it’s not entirely wrong to say that a well build Paladin can be OP, the truth of the matter is that their power is balanced by the strict nature of their oath. There are so many things a Paladin just…can’t do without running the risk of losing their divine connection
@@SeptimusCreed a paladin is still much worse than any caster, clerics are even better than paladins at tanking and playing melee. And they're a good martial but as a suport, in damage they're surparsed by figthers and in utility by rangers.
...functionally, shouldn't he get Oathbreaker abilities for losing his divine connection?
Wait how would he even get _part_ of his powers back? Kelemvor either knows he's there or doesn't
@@M_Alexander
Kelemvor is quite interesting god but there might be just issue that DM didn't learnt lore of God of Death.
The Oathbreaker subclass for the Paladin is supposed to be obtained when the Paladin pursues an evil path or serve an evil power rather than any time a Paladin breaks their oath.
@@awesomeanime8533 Uh, what? Alignment doesn't exist in 5E anymore. Oathbreaker does what it says on the tin; it's an alternate subclass that you progress down when you break your old oath.
@@awesomeanime8533 No.
“Your fighting style is permanent, warlock doesn’t get to change their pact!” doesn’t make any sense
The warlock literally signed a contract with a demon or something. That’s like saying I can’t learn how to use a mace because I learned how to use a sword
What's even funnier is Tasha's has brought options up to change Fighting Styles nowadays. Paladind get the chance per level up. I get if a DM doesn't use it, it's just funny to me.
This screams "I hate paladins in my game so imma punish my player rather than not letting them play the class at all"
9:47 Easy fix. The DM should have just made the plot as he lost his faith due to breaking that Amber gemstone. He is cursed and must find a way to become uncursed.
I like this option. It becomes a nice personal plot and makes the player feel special.
What really burns me is the fact that none of the other party members are speaking up in OP's defense. Even if they are first timers, they should realize that if the DM can arbitrarily cripple one player, then he could do the same to them with no warning.
And thus might side with the DM for fear of him turning on them next.
@@intergalactic92 You are being too charitable to them, the simple answer tends to be the correct one most of the time, and the simple answer here is that the group as a whole literally didn't care about OP and were fine with the DM bullying him. Just look at the way they reacted when OP was trying to leave the first time. Basically the DM was an abuser, the OP his victim and the rest enablers.
This happened to me as well, as a new player.
I accidentally skipped a major puzzle for the party because my character was a gnome, and very curious; She climbed onto the edge of a well to peer in, and fell off the edge because it was mossy. The crypt we were looking for was down there.
It made him incredibly furious, and he basically just started breaking down at me in anger, after several sessions where I felt like I wasn't doing things right, due to not being included.
It turns out the DM didn't want want to add my character into the story, so just talked around it. In the end, I was completely blamed for playing my character in-character, the way she was created (with his oversight). I apologized to him, but he naturally never apologized to me or anything, and I haven't talked to him since.
It ended up ruining what little confidence I had in my abilities, and took me almost a decade to return to tabletop games to any degree.
I still have very low self esteem and insecurity about my writing/RP skills (where I previously didn't), now eight or nine years later.
Oh, and this guy was almost a decade my senior, when I was 22 at the time. I too have suffered crippling loneliness for years, so I completely relate to OP...
Thankfully my current group(s), is a friend group I returned to (after some years of distancing myself due to depression), who I've known since 2011, and even found a girlfriend whom I intend to marry some day. The group has started to restore my confidence a bit in myself, and encourage me to take part at every corner. I couldn't be happier today, despite almost quitting tabletop games for good due to such a bad experience.
That's genuinely fuckin nuts cause he could have just not had you slip into the well, or at least turn it into a hint for the puzzle rather than just you fall in look you found the secret crypt. Bad DMs just love to create problems for themselves and blame their players for it.
@@dweebpatrol Yeah, that's the part that always confuses me... I'm pretty sure he did that on purpose to have a 'reason' to be outraged.
My current group? I double-critted on an attack and skipped an entire phase on a boss enemy. Was the DM angry? No, he was laughing, and impressed at the absurdity of it. Several NPCs that would've been witness, have since complimented her on her aim.
I'm in such a better place, thanks to my old friend group giving me confidence in my abilities.
The DM sounds like a bully, and the other players are passive bullies by enabling it and gaslighting OP to just suck it up. We can never know what the reason was for them targeting OP specifically, but my own experience with bullies is that they can target you over literally anything. Maybe they are jealous of you in some way, maybe you said something that somehow triggered their insecurity. Or maybe you are socially awkward and they saw you as an "easy target" to boost their ego by kicking down on the vulnerable. We can't read their minds but it could be literally anything. No matter what the reason is, it's always a stupid one regardless, and always extremely petty.
4:00 hold up. is the party fighting Steven Universe?
In the beginning he mentioned one player saying: "he has to heal the paladin again"; that feels like there is a story before all this
I thought that too?? Like from the beginning it almost sounds like the whole group is picking on op. I guess we don't know if they know each other outside of this, but it still doesn't sound great :/
Yeah, the cleric not wanting to heal is a red flag imo. They're a red mage for a reason lol
Yeah it sounds like the paladin loves being the center of attention in every fight and chose not to add that part in the post
@@lokilucarioare you one of the party members from the post? Thats a rancid take for "aw man, the frontliner needs healing for taking damage"
It should be pointed out the player was new so if they were doing wrong things the party and DM should've said something instead of starting this passive aggressive bully train.
On top of that if we believe the player asking if something is wrong or they should leave is needed and being told they'd ruin things if they leave is true... Clearly it sounds like someone had it out for them and just wanted to hold them hostage to bully more.
I'm in the middle about the barbarian player. The DM's treatment would never pass the smell test to any experience level
The player fits the class. Absolutely stupid
The barbarian is almost as bad. They could've quit, too, but didn't. They could've said something about the OBVIOUS abuse that was going on, but didn't. The OP started asking if they were even wanted at the table, which they made a regular thing! It cannot be understated how incredibly unhinged it is that they even felt they needed to ask *once*
They didn't actually care about OP at all, they just didn't want to lose them from the group.
I've seen so many shitty dms in these stories, THIS ONE TAKES THE CAKE.
Cause this is not a shitty DM, this is an abuser and his clique of enablers taking advantage of someone in a vulnerable situation (OP).
Being a new player doesn't excuse them from not standing up to this DM. The first game my friend and I played, we noticed immediately when another player was being targeted. We both tried to play along and help the other player in-game to see how far the DM would go with their targeting of this player. Then we called out the DM after several sessions and enough broken rules that the DM couldn't defend his actions. Once they admitted they were trying to kill off the player, we destroyed his campaign and left to show our disapproval of his actions.
Man, was really hoping the DM would get what he deserves at the end but I guess not all stories can be like that.
Funny how everyone who is having fun with their powerful characters obviously don't have any problems with what the DM is doing.
Really wish we could've gotten an understanding of why the DM was acting like this towards the OP.
If the DM’s story was REALLY that dependent on the Paladin, then they got to have their original plan nuked
Sometimes the happy ending is abandoning toxic tables to be forgotten forever. Im glad OP at least got better friends to go on better adventures with. He said he DMd some campaigns, im sure he took the lessons he learned from his own experiences forward
Honestly the dm probably tried to nerf another player after op left. He was clearly doing it for no reason but to bully and without someone to bully they freak out. Hopefully the party realized how awful he was and ditched him
I'm about to be a DM for the first time and ive been watching a lot of CritCrab videos to make sure of what to absolutely NOT do. Its kind of wild how often the story is something like this where it seems like common sense that a player wouldn't have fun if you remove everything that makes their character fun lol
Godspeed, you're facing an uphill battle. I wish you luck, you'll need it.
@@altimagobrrr3838 good luck with the game
@@MarquisLeary34 That's a bad attitude to have. It's a game, just try to have fun and everyone else will have fun. As long as you aren't a sociopath whose idea of fun is causing people you invited to your home to suffer, you'll be fine
Good luck on DMing! I know it can seem really daunting at first, but honestly, it can be such a blast. Just remember to be kind to yourself, don’t be afraid to admit when you’ve made a mistake (it’s a very complex game, so we all make mistakes), don’t be afraid to look stuff up at the table (your job is to run the game, not to memorize what each and every class, race, and monster does), and remember that your fun is just as important as your players’.
@CrizzyEyes yea I don't plan to have that mentality at all lol. All of the players are beginners and good friends so i plan to take things very slow. Also, I introduced them all to DnD as more of a story telling device rather than a DM vs Players game, so it at the very worst should still be an easy going experience.
Hey Crab. Just wanted to say thanks for putting so many cool modules and adventures on my radar through your sponsors. I know there wasn't any on this video but I've made sure to write down quite a few you've shown off lately.
I am gonna screw my players over so bad with these, Thanks!
Thanks! Whenever I take a sponsor I (almost) always make sure it's related to D&D or TTRPGs for that same reason. I find a lot of this stuff cool too!
"happy ending" my ass. Its like eating a bag of salt and having a tablespoon of sugar as a treat.
"I got out of this experience finding a great DM who helped me enjoy DnD and now I'm a full blown fan who has DMed three games". Ah yea, what a bitter and terrible ending to go out on.
@@Ender41948 that’s the tablespoon of sugar
@@ScootaNinja Psychology is weird, IIRC if you were consuming that salt and the last of it was replaced with sugar, that would probably be rated more preferable compared to the experience of just consuming half the salt, but starting with the sugar. Ending has unreasonable power over how things are viewed in reflection.
Of course when I’m binge watching CritCrab’s old videos he uploads out the deep blue
This feels like the dm saw the part of CR Campaign 2 where Fjord loses his powers but didnt understand why that moment mattered or worked and just wanted to do it cause it seemed 'cool'.
The dm of this story was too focused on making a good story, players aren't just characters and you cant tortue them for character development
The DM in question didn't want to have the Paladin's aura come into play and give bonus saves. The same DM didn't like the concept of smiting as well. The DM is what most people would call "special" like the kind of guy who should be riding a very small yellow bus to and from the hobby shop. There is no story reason to take a player out and make them useless. If I have a character go down, they are playing as soon as they roll up a character. The story excuse was just that, an excuse.
Seriously. If you have that big of a problem with a class, tell the players to please not role one up.
Warlock and barbarian telling op to not complain because his character has "better armor", "more powerful features", "more hit points" and "a fighting style" makes me so fucking angry
Still making my way thru this. I think disconnecting the paladin from his God is kind of a neat concept that could've been cool if: A) it didn't completely remove all paladin perks. Maybe gain back half spell slots and lay on hamds points. Still gains other class features. B) Is short term. Meaning when they went to the temple, the cleric should've had info on how to remove and that was the next quest. I don't think I'd nerf a character like this for more than 2-3 sessions. And definitely not a new player. C) have the reason make sense. It was literally right there in the paladin's hands! The gemstone could've lessened his connection to his God and there could've been some quest to remove that curse.
Option C was my thought, too. I mean, come on, the DM literally said the gem was one of the BBEG's macguffins, OP's character touching it would have been the perfect explanation.
I once had a teacher that was a dm and one of his party members said his campaigns were too easy, this man then lead the party into a dungeon that seemed kind of off. His party members seemingly noticed small movements in everything, almost as if they were breathing, then as one of them reaches for a torch off of a wall it suddenly grew a mouth and snapped at him. Then the party noticed that everything began to change around them, suddenly realizing what was happening. As they ran out the dungeon the walls, the floor, even the ceiling began to grow a mouth and as they left the dungeon they noticed everything turning back as if nothing had happened. No one complained about his campaigns again
What is beyond me when I listen to those DnD horror stories, is why the hell do people put up with that kind of crap!? I mean... I've played DnD a couple times in my life and you better believe that from the moment it would become just slightly annoying I would quit that shit in the blink of an eye. It's supposed to be a hobby, not a job that you need to deal with.
Depends. I was stuck with a manipulative and gaslighting DM for years because he loved having control over me. He ruined my reputation with the two other groups in our small town (this was before online D&D really took off) and it was him or nothing and all my friends hung out with him. Manipulated people don't know they are being manipulated nine times out of ten. Might have been the case here or not. Too many people learn the hard way that not playing D&D is better than bad D&D.
Outside perspective is cute, but the reality is that peer pressure and abusive situations, along with social starvation suffered by the OP, can make you let people do that to you.
People have complicated lives... not that hard to grasp. Some people have difficulty making friends and have only recently discovered that D&D is something they can use to connect to people. Some people already have friends who are involved in the D&D campaign, and those people turn out to be pricks who don't understand that "it's just a game" is not a license to be a tremendous asshole to everyone.
Successful bullies know how to choose their targets, and also, the Venn diagram of conflict-averse people and TTRPG players is not quite a circle (as evidenced by you) but it's got a LOT of overlap. Also, assertiveness is a learned skill and some people don't get to learn it when young and may even be actively punished for trying to stand up for themselves (as I was).
@@Samuel-eh6eg It's not just outside perspective. I've been there before, and I did just that.
But I get your point though. Some people have a hard time dealing with either loneliness or bad friends.
From the story I would say the whole party and the dm were against op or used him as the butt of the joke in the friend group and the game was another way to try and do that. But that's just my thinking on it and to be fair it could be just a new player thing but if I noticed my friend getting talked down to because they are getting nerfed into oblivion I'd say something months before the explosion happened
Good job on the consistency! I found your channel last week and watched over 20 of your past videos already, excited to join the crab community and watch the videos as they come out now :D
I would have left 2-3 sessions after the beginning of the story.
Literally the Charlie Brown "I got a rock" bit.
man, if you're going to take away someones powers as a paladin for that long at least let them be a flavored oathbreaker or ANYTHING more than a crippled paladin for that long
They didnt just take away their paladin powers, which would be worse enough, they straight up turned that guy into no more than a bystander.
Telling him he was basically a fighter now but then proceeding to to give him any items to fit that playstyle and making all enemies resistant/immune to non magical damage was the last straw for me.
This wasnt about him being a Paladin or not, it was about making him as useless as possible.
Or give them something in exchange for what they temporarily lost. This DM is just a joke.
I’m glad to see you’re uploading more frequently Crab. I missed listening to these stories while working!
It sounds to me like there is a lot of conversation behind OPs back. Like OP was a spot light grab playing a pretty powerful class and the other players were sad they didn’t get as much as paladins do but instead of giving the other players more, the DM nerfed OP
Edit: Or the DM had trouble balancing things against the paladin (new player so probably not). I thought that maybe the DM wanted to have a cool story moment but that quickly faded after I heard them level up more than once. Let him temporarily respec as a fighter if you are going to take away their class. He was essentially a fighter without action surge, second wind, a subclass, or an additional feat. At least give him that and a magic weapon that doesn’t break every day.
Dang that whole situation pisses me off. I hope that original DM realizes how messed up that was.
23:45 I definitely know where they’re coming from here. I know what it’s like to not be taken seriously until you finally snap. It’s frustrating how just politely voicing your concerns doesn’t warrant so much as a raised eyebrow as opposed to a whole breakdown. I’ll give the other players a point for at least showing concern towards OP having a breakdown as some people wouldn’t even care about that, but, again, why did it take until OP having a breakdown for you to care?
I went through this to a lesser extent.
I used a magic item that had my character turned to stone. Stuck as a statue for 2 weeks, kept asking if I could just make a new character, and told that I'll come back eventually.
After the 2 weeks I took a week off just to relax and came back to find out they had covered my character in honey and feathers... yep that was the last week. I played through the session, but that was it. I was done.
not only the DM was brain dead, also the other players...
1- Dropping the level 5 paladin with a delayed blast fireball, right at the start of the encounter? 2- Removing his ability to regenerate his powers. 3- Switching to cleric and it still goes on? 4- The glacier plot to burn his remaining spell slots.
Storyteller VS Mechanic: the DM knows how to tell a compelling story but goes on on bare mechanics and can't contend when players are inventive with their kits. So he went petty. And from the sound of it, the other players feeling less "heroic" for not being as inventive, simply, didn't say a word... This is confirmed with the sword thing. Sure, he's giving powers back but he's doing it with balls and chains because he doesn't want to be overshadowed by the player inventiveness.
So what was this “epic story arc” that was supposed to make this worth it? There was none, the DM was just a garbage person. He picked on OP, presumably because he felt OP was doing better than the other players.
"Leaving the group could be terrifying for someone who doesn't have anyone else"
Completely true. I have had to deal with that and most recently so has my husband. Listing everything each one of those people did would make this a very very long essay. It's easy to be an outsider looking in and making judgments but you will never understand why someone stays in situations like that until YOU are in one and have since gotten out of it. When you're in it you don't see whats happening to you. You don't think your only friends, the only people who show you attention, the only people who are in your day to day life, the only people you really have would treat you poorly on purpose. At first you believe the excuses they give you, you accept those apologies, then you start making excuses for them, then comes the guilt tripping, then the gaslighting, and it keeps going and going and going and going until you are so broken down from it that you leave, off yourself, or someone else helps you see that you are actually deserving of basic respect. That you deserve to not be mistreated. That you can have better. That you are owed better. That you will get better from others. That you aren't alone. That you aren't crazy. Human relationships are complicated. All of them are. It's not a white or black thing.
This has vehemently pissed me off. To King Crab's point, it would make sense to take this away for story purposes, if you soon give it back and make the player feel empowered. For example, it sounds like he got nerfed at level 6 or so, and then they shortly after hit level 7 where he would get the paladin aura. I think it would've been great for the paladin to have gotten slightly nerfed for a COHERENT story purpose (like contact with the amber gem from the Bard's navel while in dying condition has caused his powers to hibernate to preserve his strength and nurse him back to become much stronger, and then boom, reward the paladin with not only his powers back, but an extra buff tying directly to his aura. THAT would make sense to me.
But not one, not two, but 7 LEVELS! It took the DM 7 levels to grant this player the courtesy of a level 1 spell slot, not even his powers or anything. Just a SINGULAR level 1 spell slot. Bruh, I would've walked out a while ago. I feel for OP. What a textbook bad DM.
Good rebudle is "imagine if your claric or warlock lost all of its divinity skills, or if the barbarian lost both his arms and the ability to rage
Holy heck I love the animation at the start!!!
Thanks! I've been practicing my editing skills. Gonna edit as many intros as I can 🦀👑
It's possible Barbarian was having too much fun, and didn't realize that the DM was being an ass. Maybe he thought that's just how it was supposed to go.
I think they'd magically realized it was inappropriate if their own character suddenly developed an incurable phobia of blood that made them pass out for D12 rounds any time that saw it for any reason. Then when it was finally cured (months of RL time later), they instead acquired tendonitis so they couldn't lift any weapon heavier than 1/4 of a lb.
@@cameronjames3499 I bet you're right, it's too bad they were too focused on themselves and their badass character to notice. Not to mention it was their first DnD game
i've got a few pathfinder books, and been going back and forth in my head on looking to DM. I've been listening to these stories for a day and thought to myself, "I couldn't do any worse than some of the bad DM's" on these stories...so I grabbed one of my campaign books, started reading and making notes. Thanks for the inspiration