I remember you guys also tore into Toreador in the VTM vs VTR stream. mostly agree since it's a clan that seems tailor-made to attract freaks but I've had a (I think) heterodox take on them since I was introduced to WoD by Bloodlines (in which they have double humanity gains/losses, no "transfixed by beauty" idiocy). obviously humanity isn't a great system but the idea of a clan who's simultaneously the most and least human is cool. problem is they're saddled with 2 contradictory aspects: social graces and the fixation on Art. the fact that these are grouped together in one clan says a lot about the people at White Wolf but I think there are archetypes that can reconcile them. imagine the kind of monster someone like Stanley Kubrick could become if granted immortality and dominion over man. the obsessive artist who works feverishly into the daylight, whose aeshetics (and the means by which they realize them) become more and more inhuman with every night they survive; that's closer to the ideal Toreador imo. honestly, to my mind they have more in common with Tzimisce than anyone else. sorry for a too-long comment, just hope I can introduce some redemption for Toreador similar to what you've discovered for the Anarchs. looking forward to that video!
The way I see Toreador are vampires obsessed with "artistry" things, but they are uncapable to understand or contemplate beauty. They like the artist spirit in artists, they like to suck on these people, because maybe they were artists themselves once humans, but not anymore, and the void immortality gave in their lifeless vessels made them obsessed with it. So, they usually hangs with and promotes only shit artists, part explaining the decadence of art in the WoD context. And I think true beauty should be despised by them. Even hated. True art should make them fell threatened.
@TheLieWOW I like that explanation for the stereotypically decadent fops who lounge around Elysium but it just makes the clan too despicable, lol. if anything the vampiric curse should have a more gradual effect on their artistic talent or taste: a Toreador fledgling might come across as a quirky, struggling art student but meeting an elder should be terrifying because you know at that point they're basically an alien, like a Tzimisce without fleshcrafting. that lends the clan some tragedy and terror; the curse is corrupting man's pursuit of beauty, not just creating parasites on the art world (which, let's face it, is very mundane).
Golem idea sounds sick. I've always thought they never got enough love so I'm excited to see where you guys take it + future content. Good shit fellas!
I played a Gargoyle much like a Gangrel prince. I seized Praxis by bullying the last prince - A Nosferatu with no friends (poor bastard). Though based on rules I could not be Prince right away, I acted like Prince. In Elysium A Malkavian said "You aren't Prince, yet" i went up and clawed him once. and said "I didn't hear you, what did you say?" He shut up. The Toreador Harpy (who didn't care for the Malkavian) looked away and the Keeper of Elysium (can't remember clan) started to remind me we were on Elysium. I just stared him down, inviting him to try something. he sat down. I was not meant to be a Clever Prince, just to predator. That's how you Prince as a Gangrel. assert dominance.
I'm glad hit locations and injuries are getting more popular. I have designed and played with such systems for a long time now and I always thought it was a great idea for making combat feel more real and have lasting consequences.
I have never played an Anarch, and have always saw them as wanting to pretend to be independent, while running off to the Daddy Cam when shit gets real. Basically. 15 year old kids pretending to be adults.
Not gonna lie, that pamphlet of courseborne is what I thought all of WoD and Cyberpunk was at its core, and why I never touched it with a 10 foot pole (tm). I would be very interested for a VtM style game made by you guys.
Interesting, got to the end of the stream and your guys' reason for never wanted to make a Vampire Style Game. Do you still stand by your rule that "every dnd 5e player must have to play VtM to learn how to roleplay."? What would a good game be that is better for that than lets say ACKS or Shadowdark?
Didn't know that you guys are also in Austin. Been here since 2003. Definitely go check out Dragon's Lair. Would love to play some Mythras. Been following Design Mechanism since RQ6. The best version of RQ IMO. Any chance we can get some play sessions in the near future?
Holy shit, that quiz. I have not laughed like that in a while.
@@HollywoodDelendaEst nor have we
I remember you guys also tore into Toreador in the VTM vs VTR stream. mostly agree since it's a clan that seems tailor-made to attract freaks but I've had a (I think) heterodox take on them since I was introduced to WoD by Bloodlines (in which they have double humanity gains/losses, no "transfixed by beauty" idiocy). obviously humanity isn't a great system but the idea of a clan who's simultaneously the most and least human is cool.
problem is they're saddled with 2 contradictory aspects: social graces and the fixation on Art. the fact that these are grouped together in one clan says a lot about the people at White Wolf but I think there are archetypes that can reconcile them. imagine the kind of monster someone like Stanley Kubrick could become if granted immortality and dominion over man. the obsessive artist who works feverishly into the daylight, whose aeshetics (and the means by which they realize them) become more and more inhuman with every night they survive; that's closer to the ideal Toreador imo. honestly, to my mind they have more in common with Tzimisce than anyone else.
sorry for a too-long comment, just hope I can introduce some redemption for Toreador similar to what you've discovered for the Anarchs. looking forward to that video!
The way I see Toreador are vampires obsessed with "artistry" things, but they are uncapable to understand or contemplate beauty. They like the artist spirit in artists, they like to suck on these people, because maybe they were artists themselves once humans, but not anymore, and the void immortality gave in their lifeless vessels made them obsessed with it. So, they usually hangs with and promotes only shit artists, part explaining the decadence of art in the WoD context.
And I think true beauty should be despised by them. Even hated. True art should make them fell threatened.
@TheLieWOW I like that explanation for the stereotypically decadent fops who lounge around Elysium but it just makes the clan too despicable, lol. if anything the vampiric curse should have a more gradual effect on their artistic talent or taste: a Toreador fledgling might come across as a quirky, struggling art student but meeting an elder should be terrifying because you know at that point they're basically an alien, like a Tzimisce without fleshcrafting. that lends the clan some tragedy and terror; the curse is corrupting man's pursuit of beauty, not just creating parasites on the art world (which, let's face it, is very mundane).
Golem idea sounds sick. I've always thought they never got enough love so I'm excited to see where you guys take it + future content.
Good shit fellas!
Shadowdark is the gateway drug to the OSR, lol
I played a Gargoyle much like a Gangrel prince. I seized Praxis by bullying the last prince - A Nosferatu with no friends (poor bastard). Though based on rules I could not be Prince right away, I acted like Prince. In Elysium A Malkavian said "You aren't Prince, yet" i went up and clawed him once. and said "I didn't hear you, what did you say?" He shut up. The Toreador Harpy (who didn't care for the Malkavian) looked away and the Keeper of Elysium (can't remember clan) started to remind me we were on Elysium. I just stared him down, inviting him to try something. he sat down.
I was not meant to be a Clever Prince, just to predator.
That's how you Prince as a Gangrel. assert dominance.
I'm glad hit locations and injuries are getting more popular. I have designed and played with such systems for a long time now and I always thought it was a great idea for making combat feel more real and have lasting consequences.
Is that questionnaire an attempt to pre-identify someone about to cause havoc in a school or job setting?
I have never played an Anarch, and have always saw them as wanting to pretend to be independent, while running off to the Daddy Cam when shit gets real. Basically. 15 year old kids pretending to be adults.
you can do a ''World of Darkness'' that is full of life and heroic. As long as the purpose of the game is fighting the darkness, not revel in it
yes
100% accurate
@@Avoloch A hunter game? BLG have confirmed a hunter game!!!
Not gonna lie, that pamphlet of courseborne is what I thought all of WoD and Cyberpunk was at its core, and why I never touched it with a 10 foot pole (tm).
I would be very interested for a VtM style game made by you guys.
Interesting, got to the end of the stream and your guys' reason for never wanted to make a Vampire Style Game. Do you still stand by your rule that "every dnd 5e player must have to play VtM to learn how to roleplay."? What would a good game be that is better for that than lets say ACKS or Shadowdark?
hey when are we gonna finish the dragonlance one shot?
Didn't know that you guys are also in Austin. Been here since 2003. Definitely go check out Dragon's Lair. Would love to play some Mythras. Been following Design Mechanism since RQ6. The best version of RQ IMO. Any chance we can get some play sessions in the near future?
Wait! The ACKS conversion guide will be backer exclusive?
@@Iulian111 nope, it'll be included in the main book that will be available to everyone eventually
Curseborn sounds stupid as fuck. LOL Your section about it brightened my day though.
Where is the "I have prostate issues and have to tinkle" option?
God, Onyx Path was so bloody awesome once. Now they are pure cringe and that makes me sad.
@@Tora58 it didn't have to be this way.
@@blacklodgegames Rich sold his soul to the woke and now his company is shit.
Buy WOTCy? I'm waiting here with baited breath.
Not going to Disneyland?😂