One thing I really like about your videos, Jez, is that you promote an open approach to learning new tools and techniques, encouraging a really adaptive mindset, and emphasizing that there are many legitimate ways to do things.
Great video! Yeah, here in the US (in gyms at least, but also occasionally in outdoor settings) we seem to hound pretty hard on PBUS being "the way." At least as far as I've experienced. Instead of the non-brake hand grabbing "under" the device, it grabs under the brake hand and then the brake hand slides back to the device. The theory is that the brake hand does not have to let go as much when the other hand is below it keeping tension on the brake end. And we are strict on never releasing the grip of the dedicated brake hand. But I agree that the other methods can be completely safe as well. As long as there is some hand on the brake end and it's capable of immediately being below the device, a fall can be arrested. It's rough trying to explain to people when I've had to fail them during belay tests because they didn't use PBUS. Like "technically what you're doing is completely safe, but we require you to use specifically PBUS because it's allegedly more completely safe."
I love you explain that there is no perfect way to belay. Seems to be a plague of people teaching that the only way to safely belay is the V Knee 123 movement. So many more ways that are just as safe, if not safer in the correct scenarios. I like how you mentioned the method of swapping between left and right handed belaying. I Love It! And do it quite alot, especially if you are belaying a climber who is moving quickly. But I have to say around novices I try to belay with the method I've taught, if nothing else it helps reinforce the teaching. All the best and loving the videos!
@@JBMountainSkills Not just the videos but the knowledge too, it's nice to see a UK MIA who clearly loves their career and teaches so well showing uk techniques. The passion and knowledge come through so well in a way that is so easy to take onboard. There's nobody doing what you do, in the way you do it on UA-cam.
@@cornishlad97 I wholeheartedly agree. This channel has been a right diamond in the often pile of poop that is on here. Its like just sitting down with a mate and him talking through some knowledge. The right balance of humour, confidence and information. Just brilliant.
Brilliant video again mate. For me, the most important thing above ALL else is that the person I’m teaching FULLY understands what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. Personally I teach people a version of the V2knee123. Firstly, I find that new climbers have a tendency to perform the initial V2knee is a very jerky, stop-start motion so the difference for me is that I ensure they understand that anytime the brake hand is level with the belay device or higher, they basically have little to no brake so they must get that hand down ASAP. So what I get them to do is make a rainbow or arc which means they keep the hand moving the whole time. This almost always gets the hand back down to a braking position much quicker than the standard V2knee. Secondly, I get them to slide hands rather than swap because this way the brake hand is always at least a fist sized distance away from the belay device meaning they’re much less likely to get their hand pulled up and into the belay device if their climber takes a big fall. I’ve had this happen to me and I know a) how damned painful it is and b) how much you just want to let go of the rope and this would be bad haha.
Nice video mate! I admit I tend to revert to the hand swap method (the one you said blows your mind a bit) when running a top-rope session simply because I find it shares the work evenly between my left and right arms. Otherwise when teaching I like the eyes-thighs-3,4,5 method as I find exactly what you pointed out, that beginners tend to pull through loads of rope in one go, meaning they're in the unlocked position for a little more time than ideal. Love your work, keep the great content coming.
I came across Knee 123 recently, removing the 'V aspect' which allows the belayer to pull the rope through at a more horizontal angle at crotch level, which ultimately reduced the amount of time the rope is in its weakest position with limited friction. The best tip I ever got, was it doesn't matter what method you teach, as long before you let go of that dead rope, and walk away from them, reducing your supervision, you need to be sure their proficient enough for you to tie yourself in and be happy in them belaying you up that rock.....whhaaaa scary thought!!! :-)
The horizontal method can work well, a little belay device dependent. I’m all for leaving people to work things out themselves with minimal input, where appropriate of course!
Really great as a sounding board with this one Jez. I could imagine having a discussion about this on a RCI course over a brew. Made me think about getting over to a belayer the fundamental ideas of what they are trying to do and safely. I have seen lots of novices being taught in the situation you described with someone on the sharp end. Lots of food for thought. Nice one.
The only thing that really matters is do not let go of the dead rope. I like the left right swap idea as it stops people getting dependent on having their dominant hand on the dead rope. Later on you need to be ambidextrous as you aren’t always going to be able to stand left or right of your anchors.
Back when I did a season at PGL. The method we HAD to use for teaching belaying was: Nuckles to pocket reach around and lock it. Worked sometimes but the catchieness of the rhyme often distracted people.
Great Video 😀 I still use the V -Knee -123 method ad I was first thought that. Adapted it to be able to do it safely both left and right handed. Tried the shuffle method aswell but prefer the other one. Good things to think about.
Loving these videos Jez. Working towards my RCIA and not having chance to get out, these are keeping me sane for sure!! How about ‘Shoulders, boulders, 1, 2, 3’ 😉
ok then, I was not crazy to keep pulling through meters of rope throught a hook in the ceiling in my living room:). Tying a kettlebell instead of climber and having someone to drop it from time to time seemed useful as well.
All the methods are good but I've never really liked the rhythm of it which suggests a continuous, on the beat process. In actuality, I think it would be "V to knee" quick in one flowing movement, slow 123 and then pause until you have need to do it again. People are all very different though so I can see the need to adapt..
Another great video Jez! I find at the centre I work at, some of the guys get hung up on moving people away from "worse" belay methods and tell us to push them towards the v to knee business (which I can see the reasoning for). It's annoys me to no end when they don't have a proper reason for it!! Nice to hear someone giving a more balanced approach. Quick question, if you're seeing people belaying unsafely (maybe spending too long in the v position) at the crag or wall, how do you approach giving them some advice? Always found this a tricky affair.
From an RCI assessors point of view, it's all about the understanding why for me, I don't much mind the method, as long as theres the understanding behind it. Thats a tricky one! The short answer is I try and strike up a friendly conversation and ease in "oh, by the way...!" Hard though!
I learned in the early 90s with classic “pinch” method of belaying with my belay carabiner through both waist and leg loops: hands on rope palms up and pinkies toward the belay device, draw in rope; slide the feeding hand up and pinch the brake strand with 2 fingers above the brake hand; then slide the brake hand to the starting position. I brake with my dominant hand off to the right. Lefties would do the opposite. Any thoughts? It usually makes younger climbers double take... For me it just seems so much tidier and organized, in that belay device is not flopping around and cross-loading as much. Do older climbers in Europe still use that method? That said I’ll teach newbies the standard North American PBUS method these days as that seems standard in most gyms here and people are very uncomfortable with anything different. Thanks for the great videos! :)
Yeah, that's how I was taught too, but it was a holdover from belaying with a munter hitch when tube devices were relatively new. The need to pass belay tests in north american gyms forced me off it, and now I cringe when I see others who still do so, and definitely no longer feel comfortable being belayed that way. I'll admit that I won't say anything to someone who has done that for years, but I generally seek to climb with other people instead. Generally I alternate hands because it's most efficient and ingrained in my muscle memory, unless I see a concerned gym employee watching me closely or I'm trying to set a good example for a novice. I would never feel comfortable with a novice alternating hands!
@@Nick-B78 haha I was trying to be non-insulting to the ladies (and anyone else who takes offence to it), think of words that sound a bit like 'lips' that are in the chest area ;)
Another belter vid Jez. I personally (most of the time) use the shuffle method and have had a few comments about it!, but when with newbies i show any of the basic variations. One thing I add for not so new climbers is to be ambidextrous, it can be essential if on a confined multi-pitch stance.
The shuffle is ace, I guess it's just not a widely seen thing, yet, so people do question it. Belaying with either hand is definitely an important progression.
Let us know what you think the most important things are when teaching belaying!
One thing I really like about your videos, Jez, is that you promote an open approach to learning new tools and techniques, encouraging a really adaptive mindset, and emphasizing that there are many legitimate ways to do things.
Very kind :)
Great video! Yeah, here in the US (in gyms at least, but also occasionally in outdoor settings) we seem to hound pretty hard on PBUS being "the way." At least as far as I've experienced. Instead of the non-brake hand grabbing "under" the device, it grabs under the brake hand and then the brake hand slides back to the device. The theory is that the brake hand does not have to let go as much when the other hand is below it keeping tension on the brake end. And we are strict on never releasing the grip of the dedicated brake hand.
But I agree that the other methods can be completely safe as well. As long as there is some hand on the brake end and it's capable of immediately being below the device, a fall can be arrested. It's rough trying to explain to people when I've had to fail them during belay tests because they didn't use PBUS. Like "technically what you're doing is completely safe, but we require you to use specifically PBUS because it's allegedly more completely safe."
Another great video. Your pace when you speak is spot on. I always find I talk far to quickly.
Very kind!
I love you explain that there is no perfect way to belay. Seems to be a plague of people teaching that the only way to safely belay is the V Knee 123 movement. So many more ways that are just as safe, if not safer in the correct scenarios.
I like how you mentioned the method of swapping between left and right handed belaying. I Love It! And do it quite alot, especially if you are belaying a climber who is moving quickly. But I have to say around novices I try to belay with the method I've taught, if nothing else it helps reinforce the teaching.
All the best and loving the videos!
Glad you liked it!
All these things are about content hey?
@@JBMountainSkills Not just the videos but the knowledge too, it's nice to see a UK MIA who clearly loves their career and teaches so well showing uk techniques. The passion and knowledge come through so well in a way that is so easy to take onboard. There's nobody doing what you do, in the way you do it on UA-cam.
@@cornishlad97 I wholeheartedly agree. This channel has been a right diamond in the often pile of poop that is on here. Its like just sitting down with a mate and him talking through some knowledge. The right balance of humour, confidence and information. Just brilliant.
Brilliant video again mate. For me, the most important thing above ALL else is that the person I’m teaching FULLY understands what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. Personally I teach people a version of the V2knee123. Firstly, I find that new climbers have a tendency to perform the initial V2knee is a very jerky, stop-start motion so the difference for me is that I ensure they understand that anytime the brake hand is level with the belay device or higher, they basically have little to no brake so they must get that hand down ASAP. So what I get them to do is make a rainbow or arc which means they keep the hand moving the whole time. This almost always gets the hand back down to a braking position much quicker than the standard V2knee. Secondly, I get them to slide hands rather than swap because this way the brake hand is always at least a fist sized distance away from the belay device meaning they’re much less likely to get their hand pulled up and into the belay device if their climber takes a big fall. I’ve had this happen to me and I know a) how damned painful it is and b) how much you just want to let go of the rope and this would be bad haha.
Sounds like a nice way of doing it. I absolutely agree with making sure they're understanding what they're doing and why they're belaying!
Your online teaching style is so very good. Thanks so much. Subscribed.
Very kind, thank you!
Nice video mate! I admit I tend to revert to the hand swap method (the one you said blows your mind a bit) when running a top-rope session simply because I find it shares the work evenly between my left and right arms. Otherwise when teaching I like the eyes-thighs-3,4,5 method as I find exactly what you pointed out, that beginners tend to pull through loads of rope in one go, meaning they're in the unlocked position for a little more time than ideal. Love your work, keep the great content coming.
Cheers!
I came across Knee 123 recently, removing the 'V aspect' which allows the belayer to pull the rope through at a more horizontal angle at crotch level, which ultimately reduced the amount of time the rope is in its weakest position with limited friction. The best tip I ever got, was it doesn't matter what method you teach, as long before you let go of that dead rope, and walk away from them, reducing your supervision, you need to be sure their proficient enough for you to tie yourself in and be happy in them belaying you up that rock.....whhaaaa scary thought!!! :-)
The horizontal method can work well, a little belay device dependent.
I’m all for leaving people to work things out themselves with minimal input, where appropriate of course!
Really great as a sounding board with this one Jez. I could imagine having a discussion about this on a RCI course over a brew. Made me think about getting over to a belayer the fundamental ideas of what they are trying to do and safely. I have seen lots of novices being taught in the situation you described with someone on the sharp end. Lots of food for thought. Nice one.
Pleasure as always!
The only thing that really matters is do not let go of the dead rope. I like the left right swap idea as it stops people getting dependent on having their dominant hand on the dead rope. Later on you need to be ambidextrous as you aren’t always going to be able to stand left or right of your anchors.
Absolutely!
Back when I did a season at PGL. The method we HAD to use for teaching belaying was: Nuckles to pocket reach around and lock it. Worked sometimes but the catchieness of the rhyme often distracted people.
Hard sometimes in a place like that when you have to do something that doesn't work so well for you!
@@JBMountainSkills indeed, now just another thing in the tool box
Great Video 😀 I still use the V -Knee -123 method ad I was first thought that. Adapted it to be able to do it safely both left and right handed. Tried the shuffle method aswell but prefer the other one. Good things to think about.
Thats the key really, thinking about it, if we all keep doing that, we're winning!
Loving these videos Jez. Working towards my RCIA and not having chance to get out, these are keeping me sane for sure!!
How about ‘Shoulders, boulders, 1, 2, 3’ 😉
Boulders 😂😂😂
ok then, I was not crazy to keep pulling through meters of rope throught a hook in the ceiling in my living room:). Tying a kettlebell instead of climber and having someone to drop it from time to time seemed useful as well.
Great video, glad you omitted the waist belay 🤣
Glad you liked it!
All the methods are good but I've never really liked the rhythm of it which suggests a continuous, on the beat process. In actuality, I think it would be "V to knee" quick in one flowing movement, slow 123 and then pause until you have need to do it again. People are all very different though so I can see the need to adapt..
Another great video Jez! I find at the centre I work at, some of the guys get hung up on moving people away from "worse" belay methods and tell us to push them towards the v to knee business (which I can see the reasoning for). It's annoys me to no end when they don't have a proper reason for it!! Nice to hear someone giving a more balanced approach.
Quick question, if you're seeing people belaying unsafely (maybe spending too long in the v position) at the crag or wall, how do you approach giving them some advice? Always found this a tricky affair.
From an RCI assessors point of view, it's all about the understanding why for me, I don't much mind the method, as long as theres the understanding behind it.
Thats a tricky one! The short answer is I try and strike up a friendly conversation and ease in "oh, by the way...!" Hard though!
Great vid Jez, really enjoyed it. Super informative😁
Glad you enjoyed it!
I learned in the early 90s with classic “pinch” method of belaying with my belay carabiner through both waist and leg loops: hands on rope palms up and pinkies toward the belay device, draw in rope; slide the feeding hand up and pinch the brake strand with 2 fingers above the brake hand; then slide the brake hand to the starting position. I brake with my dominant hand off to the right. Lefties would do the opposite. Any thoughts? It usually makes younger climbers double take... For me it just seems so much tidier and organized, in that belay device is not flopping around and cross-loading as much. Do older climbers in Europe still use that method? That said I’ll teach newbies the standard North American PBUS method these days as that seems standard in most gyms here and people are very uncomfortable with anything different. Thanks for the great videos! :)
Yeah, that's how I was taught too, but it was a holdover from belaying with a munter hitch when tube devices were relatively new. The need to pass belay tests in north american gyms forced me off it, and now I cringe when I see others who still do so, and definitely no longer feel comfortable being belayed that way. I'll admit that I won't say anything to someone who has done that for years, but I generally seek to climb with other people instead.
Generally I alternate hands because it's most efficient and ingrained in my muscle memory, unless I see a concerned gym employee watching me closely or I'm trying to set a good example for a novice. I would never feel comfortable with a novice alternating hands!
Eye to the thigh eins zwei drei? :D
Added value language lessons there Giles, top level instructing!
Giles Davis Oh that’s superb 😊
Nipple to pocket swap it and lock it - Niippppplllleeeesssss!!!! Hehehe
I've never seen the one where you only pull on the dead rope, that could be great for SEN groups
It's a great simple way! Works best if the rope - belay device combo isn't to grabby.
V to the knee, let go, SCREAM
5:51
Lads..... shoulders, boulders 1 2 3
Girls......lips, hips 1 2 3
Doug Hobbs your unedited version was funnier 😂
JB Mountain Skills I wanna know what the first version was now
@@Nick-B78 haha I was trying to be non-insulting to the ladies (and anyone else who takes offence to it), think of words that sound a bit like 'lips' that are in the chest area ;)
@@doughobbs7706 A for effort
Glad none of those were new to me
Another belter vid Jez. I personally (most of the time) use the shuffle method and have had a few comments about it!, but when with newbies i show any of the basic variations. One thing I add for not so new climbers is to be ambidextrous, it can be essential if on a confined multi-pitch stance.
The shuffle is ace, I guess it's just not a widely seen thing, yet, so people do question it. Belaying with either hand is definitely an important progression.