As much as men will disagree about many non essential things such as dispensation and covenant and Calvinism and Armenian it all boils down to Faith in Christ alone. I think when we get to heaven we will be in awe of how all were incomplete in understanding. Put your faith in Christ and Christ Alone. Not a faith that will fix your issues in this temporary world as so many churches want to preach but faith in His life death and resurrection for the redemption of your sinful existence in this world. 🙏
It clearly shows that the person in the video is a Covenant believer, since they got the better polished description. But it still didn't clarify things enough for me. The search continues. :)
"there´s Israel and there´s the church" is what the man says at the beginning of the video. "Israel" as far as "the church" is concerned, is "the jew" and "the church" comprises "the gentiles." The term "gentile" is a fiction. What does it mean? Who is "the jew"? There are 10 nations of Israel (+ some Levites), which are still scattered. What God has scattered, He will gather. Israel was carried off into Assyrian captivity. Assyria is Germany. The tribe of Judah absorbed Simeon and some of Levi was sent to Babylon into captivity and then "sold to Greece" (Joel 3.6) That is why Judah is referred to in the "new" testament as "the Greek". Obadiah, Ezkekiel 35 & 36 relay that when Judah was taken into captivity, Esau moved in and possessed the land that did not belong to him. When Christ came to earth, He gathered for the first time both Israel and Judah together, joining the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 for the first time in John 12.20-24. The Israelite disciples of Christ were Galileans, "Gal" was a name used by some Israelites, for example Galicia in Poland/Ukraine. There is also a Galicia in Spain and a Galatia n the Bible! There are more, but I have forgotten them. These people all spoke one language - which could have been: Gaelic. Before Christ was crucified and resurrected, He told His disciples that they would be scattered again due to persecution, but that He would gather them once more, which He will do at the end of time. Isaiah 11.11 The truth is clear and simple to understand, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. But the truth has been twisted to unrecognizability through the teaching deliberately false doctrines, name changes and of course, identity theft. The birthright is what it is all about and it was stolen from Jacob-Israel by Esau.
[Gal 3:28-29 NKJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you [are] Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. We are all on, we are neither Jew or Greek (gentile) Judah/Southern Kingdom are the Jews who do not except Messiah. We must remember there is Israel - the land and Israel the people (Jews who believe in Messiah Yeshua and those of us grafted in because our belief.)
Well spotted... If you are looking for a simple and free pdf, here you go (enjoy!): www.gbv-dillenburg.de/pdf/1036490%20Buch%20Haushaltungen%20Englisch%202024%20www.pdf
This pastor seems very gracious and humble, and I like that he talks about how we're alike at the beginning. This is significant in a time where everyone wants to rip each other apart over differences of opinion. However, he's definitely a covenant theologian, and you could tell from the way he presented both theological perspectives. He spent like 40-45 seconds on dispensationialism and 2 minutes on covenant theology. Not only that, but a lot of what he said covenant theologians believe, dispensationalists do as well. This is why there are so many comments about people saying they're a mix of both. To do both theological theories justice, you need to spend more than 3 minutes explaining them. Not trying to be too critical of him. Like I said, he seems gracious and humble, but there's definitely some slight bias in there. It may be unintentional. Peace be with you and God bless!
I can imagine someone in the Garden speaking slowly, softly, in low measured tone presenting the true value of the fruit, in trustable older brother helpfulness. The fruit was prohibited because that was only part of a campaign to limit these people's happiness. This kind man is not telling us the source and true cost, to Jesus and the cost to the gospel of this Roman Catholic works righteousness distortion named innocently "Covenant Theology". It is such a unifying theology, a peaceful message concentrating on the gospel. Take a peaceful bite. Just one little bite. You will soon be defining everything differently, unifyingly, edifyingly. You will soon find that you no longer need Jews to comprise Israel. We now need only Gentiles Christians in Israel.
@@davimagalhaesribeiro9548 100%, but I don't believe that invalidates my assessment. It supports the fact that I can verify a lot of what he says about covenant theology, dispensationalists also believe. Again, I wasn't seeking to attack him. I merely wanted to address the misrepresentation with grace by complementing his gental spirit. Peace be with you and God bless!
Dispensationalists tend to see things like the rapture of the church to heaven in 1 Thes 4 and in Rev 4:1 for instance, which I used to agree with but now can't see it. In 1 thes 4 it talks about at Christ's return, believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. It doesn't say that go up to heaven. I believe it's like meeting a friend at the airport who is returning to his home country. You welcome his back and stay in that country. If not then I don't get how it says as Christ's return if it's just a split second rapture with no touch down on planet earth. Just my thoughts. I never saw this for years though.
I agree. I think it takes much more mental gymnastics and scripture twisting to teach the teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture then it does to see the Covenant theology, just open the front of the book!! Covenants, instructions (Torah), writings and the prophets!! It’s so clear and cannot believe I glossed over it all these years!! Listened to too many dispensationalists. Oy Vay!
Why do covenant theologians so often repeat the same tiresome canard? At 0:53, we're told dispensationalists believe that "throughout history, God has had two peoples ... and two destinies for those two peoples". NO! Dispensationalists recognize that salvation is always by grace through faith regardless if one is a Jew or gentile. A saved Jew is no different than a saved gentile, right? And dispensationalists also recognize that God is not yet finished with ethnic Israel. He still has a land for them, and He will bring many Jews to saving faith. So why does that biblical fact have to translate into a "two peoples" and "two destinies" narrative? It doesn't, and it shouldn't.
Because it is true. While I agree with your statement… kinda… special provisions are made to those who are genetically Jewish. For example, Jews have special temporal promises before and after Christ that gentiles don’t. And even after the rapture, Jews have special provisions for how and why they are saved than gentiles. Where covenant theology does not.
@@samueljimenez7420 I never said that God is done with ethnic Israel. I don't subscribe to supersessionism (which is what many covenant theologians embrace). My point was that salvation is ALWAYS by grace through faith, regardless of one's ethnicity, gender, etc.
@@johnclaiborne2749 actually, as a post-mil supersessionist I actually believe God will save the Jews are exponentially larger numbers than dispensationalists. The nation of Israel will repent and many Jews for generations will be saved. I also didn’t say you said God was done with ethnic Israel. I said dispensationalists make special provisions for ethnic Israel. Before, and after the cross and even after this supposed rapture that covenant theology does not. Covenant theology is far more consistent with the same provision for gentiles and Jews as far as salvation goes.
I also tire of the mischaracterization of dispensationalism. I do not see it today in all its systems, but the core which sees promises to Israel that God has still to fulfill is biblically solid. One has only to see unified Israel today as evidence. All eyes will be looking to Jerusalem in the end.
Thank you for the brotherly, non-confrontational way of presenting! A few questions though: If there is only one people of God (and hence Israel is the church and the church is Israel) why, then, does the NT teach that Israel is "hardened"? And "will be saved" in the future? See Rom 11,25.26. And that the veil is still on their eyes today but will be removed in the future? (2. Cor. 3:14-16)? Israel, nationally "will return to the Lord" (2. Cor. 3:16) - those who compose the church, on the other hand, have long returned to the Lord, they are already saved and they are not hardened.
Romans 11 was poorly written.... the redeemer rcoming out of Zion to deliver Israel was Jesus of course and a historical fact. He came first for the lost sheep,,, not the jews at large, then he cursed them with "I LEAVE YOU YOUR HOUSE DESOLATE",,, end of story for them. They will never see him until they say "blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord" ,,, that is the one preaching the gospel as all true believers do. fI they hear and are converted they become part of the church,,, the children of God. One Lord ONE FAITH. Romans 11 was superseded by Paul with,,, there is neither jew nor gentile in Jesus. God does not recognize race as of any importance. Paul is allowed to change his mind,,, he is fallible Just a man..
@@dsheppard8492 Thank you for your response - which speaks for itself. In order to maintain the pre-conceived ideas of covenant theology you have to blame the Apostle Paul, claim Romans 11 was "poorly written" (would you believe it?) and tell us that Paul "changed his mind"! It seems you have long left behind the truth of the inerrency of scripture and of verbal inspiration. And no wonder. For if you admit that God's word is just that - God's word - it becomes clear in an instance that convenantalism falls over like a house of cards - the minute you accept God's word. The redeemer coming out of Zion will be Jesus, but it was not a historical fact. Please note the future tense: "And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”". Even at the time the Apostle Paul penned this letter, it was still future, not only from Isaiah's p.o.v. but also from Paul's: "all Israel will be saved". Why don't you accept the Word of God and adjust your thoughts in the light of God's? I am not saying this to attack you but because I desire your blessing (while feeling compelled to warn others about the errors of covenant theology). PS: You can watch this video (as well as others in this playlist) with English subtitles: ua-cam.com/video/gTL9_bSA9ws/v-deo.html
@@michaelhardt5094 Thanks for the informative dialogue. For myself, I have become uncomfortable with dispensationalism after finding out it is a very new idea based on the teachings of one person. That being John Nelson Darby in the 19th Century. That alone makes me uncomfortable with it.
I suspect that the Apostle Paul was a covenant theologian. He said, 'For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise'. ( Gal 3:27-29 ).
It does, dispensationalism teaches Gods plan for Israel and Gods plan for the church, In the OT God dealt with Israel as a nation when Jesus came God was still dealing with Israel as a nation through his message on the Kingdom of heaven which they were looking for in an earthly Messiah and Jesus began introducing Christian doctrine through his preaching ( John 3:3) the Kingdom of Heaven is an earthly kingdom, the Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom. When the Jews as a nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah he was cut off from Israel ( Daniel 9) after the cross and resurrection the Apostles took the message to the Jews and many believed , through the Apostle Paul the message on Christian doctrine was preached concerning the Kingdom of God ( a spiritual kingdom) and both Jews and Gentiles if they believe in Jesus are part of the Kingdom of God and the message to the nation of Israel and Jews was slowly transitioning to the Gentiles which became known as the time of the Gentiles or the church age or the age of grace which will continue until the rapture of the church. After the temple was destroyed in 70 AD the Jews was disbursed among all nations as prophesied until 1948 when Israel became a nation once again (Isaiah 66) The church has not replaced Gods covenant people Israel because in the Tribulation God will once again be dealing with the nation of Israel for the last time it is known as Jacob’s trouble - who is Jacob in the Bible ? Physical Israel. The church is spiritual Israel now and the promises God made to Israel the church can claim but that dosent mean God cast off his people Israel- natural Jews ( see Romans 9-11 ) all Israel ( believing Jews ) will be saved when Jesus returns to set up his earthly kingdom known as the Millennium for 1,000 years where the church and believing Jews from the Tribulation will rule and reign. If the promises to Israel was fulfilled in the church then God is a liar because throughout the Old Testament God promised Israel would not cease to be his people and the kingdom promises would be fulfilled in them. Covenant Theology or Replacement Theology is heresy because it misinterprets the scriptures concerning Israel. There’s on,y one way to be saved during the church age which is by faith in Christ alone and not by works for both Jew and Gentiles but in the tribulation salvation is received by faith and works- why? Because God is dealing with Israel not the church who is in heaven at this point and must profess faith in Jesus and keep the commandments of God( Rev.14:12 here is the patience of the saints - those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus ( faith and works ). So we have to study the word and rightly divide the word and not go by denominations or traditions but by what the Bible says
@@marcgunz It a complicated issue (Dispensational theology has become less ridged on some issues). Israel is blinded for a time so the full measure of gentiles can receive the message than they will embrace Jesus as Messiah/Lord/God and fulfil their purpose. It allows for the Old Testament covenants to be everlasting yet stand alone for the Jews (thought salvation is still only possible by G-d's grace not works, the Messiah's sacrifice). Rabbinic or Orthodox Judaism has so entwined it's faith in man made extras that the real purpose and meaning of the covenants has been hidden. The New Covenant is a fulfillment of the original Covenants purpose yet maintains Jews unique status of His chosen people. It avoids two possible difficulties for covenant theology. It maintains a unity between Jews and gentiles in relationship to G-d and doesn't make the OT a failure needing a New Covenant to cover the Jews laps in following G-d. I can feel the typing of others refuting me. Be kind and generous but most of all explanatory and clear in the reason you disagree. Thanks
@@marcgunz The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are used interchangeably in scripture in my opinion. Mat 19 where is says it is harder for a rich man to enter the KOH and then the KOG in the next verses. Also Matthew's accounts use the expression the KOH and the other gospels parallel passages use KOG. So In my opinion those 2 facts make the 2 things the same. They are not the same as heaven. God's plan of redemption is through the gospel in my opinion and that new coventant will not ever change. I don't believe the church is raptured to heaven and then the gospel becomes irrelevant or altered. Salvation is always by faith, Abraham and the others listed in Hebrews 11 had faith. We have faith in Christ. And that's the only way anyone will ever get saved from not till the end. And Romans 11 does not say all Israel will be saved when Jesus returns. It says "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved." Also, people who believe that at a point in the future all Israel will be saved, often act like all Israel today are God's children, or ignore the fact that most of the Jews throughout history have not accepted Messiah.
It takes a great deal of theological gymnastics to set aside the unconditional promises of God to Abraham and David, to ignore the clarity of Paul's theology in Romans 9-11, and to miss the clear flow of the Book of Revelation. The God of the Bible is a promise keeping God because His promises are rooted in His never changing character, not in the performance of men.
If you read the Bible you would know that it says if we are believers in Christ we are heirs to promise and counted as abrahams seed and that not all of abrahams seed by flesh are not counted as seed because of unbelief
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821and when you read the Bible even more you will understand that God has elected to save His current enemies to bring them to Himself. Because they are still the people to whom He made promises. Jews are still Israel. Israel is still Israel. The Church is still not Israel..
@JosephBoxmeyer promises were made to Abraham and his seed. Not seeds as of many but as of and to thy seed which is Christ. That's in Galatians. It says the promises are made to Abraham and his seed and if you aren't seed, which is based on the election grace, you are not cou ted therfore the promise is not applied to them
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821 Patience, please, I do not see your point. That Gal. 3:16 " of one..Christ" is not intended as the end, not as the limit. But as the channel. The election by grace is of course through Christ. We see a good example of such election by grace, in accordance with God's faithfulness to His promises in Romans 11:28, There, those many Jews needed to comprise that "all Israel" who will be saved are here affirmed to have already been elected in preparation for that verse 26 mass salvation. They are from Abraham through Jacob by flesh, Israel by flesh, but also God's elect through Christ. Of course, from Abraham by flesh by nationality is not sufficient. But those many Jews are also seed through Christ by election.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think that reading the Bible from cover to cover leads to covenant theology, especially because we see Jesus and the Church as Israel.
@nate78824 there is no replacement. Believers in Christ were always the children of promise, which is israel. "The jews" were chosen to bring the messiah, the seed (not seeds) of abraham. The abrahamic covenant was unconditional and fulfilled through Abraham's seed, which is Jesus. The mosaic covenant was conditional on the israelites upholding God's law. The israelites broke the covenant by failing to uphold their end of the bargain (keeping the law). And this isn't to put them down, no man can keep the law, which is why we are saved by faith, not by the law.
Is there a 'bottom line' concerning 'covenant theology' as opposed to 'dispensationalism'? I believe so. This is it, imho: Jesus replaces everything. John 14:6-"I am the way, the truth, and the life; and NO ONE comes to The Father except by Me." The promises that the prophets of the Tanakh made to Israel/Judea now belong to EVERYONE who calls on God; that is, who calls on THE ONLY ONE who leads to The Father and to life thereafter. Amen.
Jesus does not replace everything. He was slain before the foundation of the earth. The people of Jacob-Israel are still scattered. He will gather the remaining remnant at the end of time. Isaiah 11.11. "jews" are anti-Christ Esau.
You didn't quite SEE what he said. But he used the wrong word, Jesus RECONCILED EVERYONE who "CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" to Himself. Replaced isnt what he did. ALL BELIEVERS are NOW referred to as "Jews" and also as "Israel" or "ONE BODY IN CHRIST" because the BELIEVING Gentiles were GRAFTED UNTO Israel (Israel is defined as a nation of PEOPLES, not a place). And then, yes, there is another group of souls, but not bloodline, who are UNBELIEVERS, BOTH Jew and Greek. Problem with dispensationalisim is that it makes part of what Jesus did on the Cross null and void! Yes there are different "Ages" according to God, but since the CROSS there is ONLY ONE "MAN"KIND, ONE BODY OF CHRIST who BELIEVE that Jesus is GOD. The only other group of people are those who don't recognize Jesus ALREADY CAME and "reconciled ALL to Himself" There's NOW only ONE BODY (the ecclesia) since the CROSS when Jesus rent the veil between man and God and broke down the dividing wall between Jew and Greek, by His BLOOD: 🔹1) He "... tore down the dividing wall, creating ONE NEW MAN betwixt the TWO." - Paul. That one new man made from BOTH is called a " BELIEVER" or a Disciple and referred to as "Jews" or as "Israel" Paul to the CHURCHES: 🔹 "For there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither male nor female, there is neither bond nor free. For ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus..." - Gal 3:28 🔹Col 3:11 - "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision or uncircumcision, Barbarian, Synthian, bond nor free; but Christ is all IN ALL". 🔹Ro 10:12 - "For there is no difference between Jew and Greek. For the same Lord over all is rich to ALL that call on Him. 🔹Cor 1:24 - "But unto THEM who are CALLED, both Jews AND Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God". 🔹2) He ALSO gave ALL people NEW forever BODIES when He returns (thru His BEATING) (because there is no difference between people in His eyes. I.E., He is no respecter of "persons"): "by His STRIPES WE are HEALED" ... (some bodies with their souls will go different places) 🔹His sacrifice rent the veil, giving believers direct access to petition the Throne on our own behalf, without the need of an earthly Priest. THROUGH the authority given us by the blood of Jesus as our NEW HIGH PRIEST, we ALL, even Unbelievers who have a mustard seed of FAITH IN JESUS, are able thru Jesus' name to talk directly to God. And Jesus is there to advocate for "ALL WHO CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD".
Excellent explanation but I do not see a conflict between the two views. What I see is quite complimentary. There are definite periods of history. There are two peoples (two olive trees, two lamp stands, two witnesses). There is one Saviour who will reconcile all of God's people back into God's Kingdom at the end of days.
Bible says if you have faith in Christ YOU are an heir to promises given to abraham and counted as his seed and some of those who are his seed by flesh will.not be counted because of their unbelief. Promises stood on faith not a physical bloodline. Bible says this in romans. Roman 4 I believe says the promises ar avoid without faith
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821 absolutely correct. The Pharisees and Saducces were all Jewish. So were the disciples. And as for the olive tree, some of the natural branches were cut off and un natural brances grafted in. If the olive tree was originally Israel then it is not believing Jews and gentiles according to that illustartion isn't it?
I agree - although it's also trivially easy to see how most would view this as an "either/or" proposition. Long story short the root of this problem is the final Chapters of Ezekiel that speak of a 4th Temple that has never existed in history. So the assumption is that it must be the Jerusalem Temple of the earthly Millennium. Which the Jews must inherit on Earth according to the Prophet Daniel. However what isn't clear in Ezekiel - but is well understood from many other prophetic verses about the Mt Zion Millennium - is that it is a Heaven-on-Earth just like Eden. In other words, you can see & experience the heavenly parts of that reality if you are also "heavenly" - like Adam & Eve before The Fall, or Jesus after The Resurrection. But if you are only "earthly" like Ezekiel, then you can only see the earthly parts of that. But you can also experience the heavenly part of it in 2x ways. 1st as of a sound of many rushing waters (earthly side is Ezekiel 43:2 & Revelation 19:5 - while heavenly side is Revelation 3:5; 7:9,13; & 19:8). 2nd is the blessings of having that Heaven-on-Earth Glory in and around the Millennium Temple. And also the Paradise blessings of the Heaven-on-Earth River flowing out of the Millennium Temple (Ezekiel 47:8-12)
You can see why bible scholars and theologians clash. Theologians use long words to summarise and indicate that they think they’ve got a theological system. Bible scholars are studying what the bible says without a preconceived theological straight-jacket.
Another critical distinctive of dispensationalism is progressive revelation. Remember that dispensationalism is a hermeneutic. It takes Scripture at face value and interprets it from a literal, historical, grammatical, and consistent perspective.
Unfortunately for these believers, they miss the most important revelations in Scripture, especially the New Testament words of Jesus. The most important lessons (the MEAT) are the SPIRITUAL, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who have EYES TO SEE. Unfortunately, dispensation theology purposefully pushes those who listen to it NOT TO LOOK FOR THE HIDDEN WISDOM contained in everything Jesus said. THIS is the difference in understanding MILK or MEAT. One MUST see the Spiritual Laws / meanings underlying what happened at the Cross and Prophecy in order to truly understand all WORDS which JESUS SPOKE, which is the ENTIRE WORKS of the Old and New Testament. For instance: Jesus is the Creator, HE'S the one who SPOKE everything into being. That's why He is called "The WORD". He's the "Angel of the LORD" throughout the Old Testament, and he's the extra stranger who knows all about God who comes onto the conversation between Job and His two other friends. He's Melchizedek, the High Priest who Abraham pays tithes to. Most EVERY scripture, especially where God, who is Jesus, speaks, has a MUCH MORE IMPORTANT meaning than LITERAL INTERPRETATION. THIS is where it's exciting to "Meditate line upon line and precept (spiritual concept) upon precept". To DISCOVER THE UNDERLYING SPIRITUAL MEANING, only discoverable to THOSE WHO LOVE JESUS. These spiritual concepts are what were HIDDEN from the Jews when God blinded them.
I just want to know one thing: I’m anxious that picking a camp (dispensationalism or covenant) is a matter of salvation? Do both ultimately believe salvation by grace alone in Christ alone ?
In principle yes. Because dispensationalism is a category and not a doctrinal statement, that means that many if not most dispensationalists are heretical, since most evangelicals are heretical and this is the most popular view. Heretical views include the idea that there was a different way to be saved in the Old Testament, and that Jews today can be saved by being Jews without believing in Jesus. That is apostasy. But it’s not an essential view to believing that God has a future plan for ethnic Israel. John MacArthur is a theologically Reformed dispensationalist and someone to listen to to understand the view
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
@@cosmictreason2242 Jews today can be saved by being Jews without believing in Jesus I think only hyper dispensationalists MIGHT believe in that.. that is not even sure.. I never heard a dispensationalists teaching this.
This description of dispensationalism is about 100 years out of date. The idea of two destinies (earth and heaven) for two peoples (Israel and the church) had been abandoned by dispensationalists by the mid 20th century. The distinction between two peoples of God is not held by Progressive dispensationalism. Similarly, neither traditional nor progressive dispensationalism holds to the dispensation as test idea any longer. I enjoy and have benefited from reading covenant theology and covenant theologians. But a ubiquitous error among covenant theologians is to describe dispensationalism as taught by Darby and Scofield without recognizing the changes and developments to the system. As a result, the dispensationalism they describe is a dispensationalism that no one (certainly no dispensational scholar) holds to today.
Two destinies and two people in scripture is one of the most obvious and foundational truths of all of scripture. Sorry your traditional theology blinded you to this.
@@Fire_soul1796 Generally speaking, an inconsistent blend between reformed theology and classical dispensationalism. The modern Mid-Acts dispensationalists theology generally describes the more biblically consistent theology with some qualifications.
I love the opening remarks for intramural harmony's sake in Christ. Well done. Much of what was said at the tail end could be said of both views as described, even if both descriptions are inadequate.
Yep … maybe I am not smart enough to see they are two different views. When he described covenant I say yes and when he described dispensationalism I say yes. To me it just sounds like he is describing the Bible. I really don’t see how either view is going to take you in a different direction from the other. Maybe I’m missing something but I doubt it.
@@johnhasty3411 I really enjoyed this comment. I tend to get bogged down in the minutiae, and ultimately get frustrated. I do not want to be experiencing frustration when studying the Word of God. This comment really grounded me, so thank you Brother🙏🏻
At this moment I would say I’m 1689 Federalist which is a fancy way of saying Baptist Covenant theology (my Presbyterian friends may convince me yet) but there is actually a hybrid between dispensational and covenantal called Progressive Covenantal that many Baptists subscribe to. I don’t hold to it myself but that might be a good definition for where you’re at. Maybe look into it and read up on the strength and weaknesses.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Covenant theology does not teach any kind of replacement. God’s people were never ethnic Israel. God’s people were the remnant, the “True Israel”, those who had the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3:7) and not his genetics.
@@noahcutshaw9856 I completely agree with you. But the whole point about dispensationalist’s charge that anyone disagreeing with then subscribes to “Suppersession theology” is their insistence that ethnic/genetic Israel IS God’s chosen and that this will never change. Your citation of Galatians (not to mention other verses from Romans as well) is well taken, but dispensationalists point to Romans 11:26 “and so all Israel will be saved” and insist this refers to “all ethnic/genetic Israel”. I, like you, do not agree with this interpretation.
@@noahcutshaw9856 The children of Jacob-Israel are alive and well and still scattered. This is "true Israel". Messiah came for the Lost Sheep of Israel and gathered Judah at the same time. John 12.20-24
I really appreciate your earnest demeanor and love for the Lord. My question to you is, since God cannot lie and is perfect, holy and righteous, why would He walk away from a covenant that He made with Israel? Especially if it was an unconditional covenant, that did not depend on what Israel did, or how rebellious they were? Dispensationalism seems to make more sense to me, but I am curious about how you support your beliefs in light of God's unconditional promises...blessings my brother. Keep looking up, as our redemption draws near..
I don't believe this is accurate. Dispensationalists do not believe that Israel has solely an earthly destiny. Far from it. Also, there have not been two peoples throughout history. Israel, as the chosen of God since Abraham and on into eternity, and the Christian church, since Jesus' resurrection and on into eternity. They have a common ultimate destiny but God does treat the two groups differently.
Thank you for clearly that up and expressing that view. If the Jews though have a destiny in the future is that dependent on them accepting Christ? and if so then aren't they just Christians then? If not, then I have a problem there.....
@@michaelnewzealand1888 The Jews would have to accept Jesus as their Messiah. I don't see how that could make them anything but Christians, but they are God's chosen people. The covenant God made with Abraham was an unconditional covenant. No matter what Abraham and his descendants did (or do), God will fulfill the promises of that covenant. There are a lot of differing views on these things and I can fully respect that. There is one Gospel: Abraham's faith was reckoned unto him by God as righteousness. Since Abraham, we are all saved by grace through faith. Abraham looked forward to the cross and we look back. I believe there will be an actual period of time that is referred to as the Great Tribulation. I believe the Tribulation will be God's last dealing with His people on this earth. Those who accept Jesus as their Messiah will have accepted Him through faith and will be saved by grace. They will join the Church in making up the Bride of Christ. Will the Jews be differentiated on into eternity? I don't know. I don't see any reason why they would be but I am certainly no authority on these matters. Isaiah 55:8-9 should always be kept in mind as should Acts 17:11.
@@Duetmaster2 Everyone must accept Jesus Christ. He is the in all and end all. There is no other name in heaven or earth through which one can be saved. For this reason, God orchestrates the salvation of Jews in end times as well as Gentiles en masse. Both Jew and Gentile must accept Jesus Christ to become children of God.
I am a Christian missionary in Haiti. I lean more to the dispensational approach, but I do not hold to several dispensations. I could be satisfied with one...before the cross and after. I appreciate the spirit with which you share our thoughts. We have too many on both sides that are not as kind as you. Now, I do want to say that I do not think you were very clear about the differences between covenant theology and dispensationalism. Why, because I believe every thing you said about starting with the garden of Eden, the fall and God's provision for salvation through Jesus Christ. To me you just said what the Bible said...and covenant people and dispensational people would all agree with that. Just my thoughts. God bless you.
Yes. While charitable, the video barely describes differences...and faintly skews the dispensational view by passively claiming foundational truths for covenant theology in last minute.
True. We began as one in the beginning but there's always a setting apart or separation from evil. Noah and Abraham in Genesis. Moses and Israel set apart in Exodus and beyond. God is still preserving Israel for their final promises in the End Times. In the history of the Reformation we still have a ways to go on hammering out eschatology.
Keith Mattison's book called "Dispensationalism: Rightly dividing the People of God", really explains very well dispensationlism and leaky dispensationlism
@@JosephBoxmeyer You said "How could God ever juggle two balls?" Not a very good question. I feel like that would be a pretty easy thing for God to do if he wanted.
@@The757packerfanprecisely my point but juggling the balls is intended to picture God dealing with both Israel and the Church. Where did they get that Covenental rule that God is not competent to manage two peoples of God? Where does the Bible say that?
God will keep his promises to the Jewish people. I think dispensational and covenant thinkers agree on that. The difference is, some dispensational thinkers in Schofield’s time believed that the promises to the Jews were purely earthly, whereas Christians had a spiritual destiny. This belief is not common now. I’m glad. Some Christians spiritualize the Old Testament promises. They consider them only metaphorical or rhetorical. I believe that to be an error, too. If you take the Bible to be the word of God, both the Old and New Testaments, you have to believe that God keeps his promises.
God KEPT His promises to Abraham and that particular group of identifiable people Who have now been scattered to the winds. How can you determine who is a true descendant of Abraham ?? You cannot since all the genealogies were destroyed in 70 AD 😞🤦🏼♂️
Also covenant theology as you just described it does not make any sense. Promises were explicitly made to Israel and Abraham and at no point where they ever told to try to save or convert those around them. They were told to stay separate from them and in some cases to destroy them because they were wicked. Then there's the 144,000. At most you could argue that Israel is a subset of the Church but that would still make them two different things.
The first christians were Jews. The church was built upon the leadership structure set up by Jesus upon the Apostles who were Jews. They were told to go and baptize (mikveh) everyone one time in the name if Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and he born again. So if there are two covenants, to which do the initial Apostl3s and Jewish converts belong? Israel or the Church?
@@poorbanishedchildrenofEve is an American Catholic an American or catholic? Israel is a nation, erase of people descended from Abraham. Does promises were made to a bloodline, not to Believers in a faith. The promises to the church were made to believers common not to a bloodline. You can hold the faith and belong to the bloodline and be both part of both Israel and the church or you can belong to either or you can belong to neither
@@TheKing-kb3zr 'not all who are descended from Israel are Israel' refers to products of the Jews' interbreeding with gentiles. Same rationale as having 1 white grandparent and three black ones means you're not white. By race-mixing they broke the rules and are in breach of contract. Their children, therefore, do not inherit the birthright promised to Abraham and his progeny. John 8:37-46 contrast merely being a literal descendant of Abraham with being that and also otherwise upholding the contract God made with Abraham and the Jews/Israel. The promise was to Israel as a whole- to what we now call the Jewish race, the direct descendants of Abraham. It was not an unconditional promise and it was not made to every single individual Jew. You violate the terms of that promise and you're in breach of contract and you and your descendants lose any claim to what was promised. Did you think he meant they were the literal flesh and blood offspring of the devil or that they meant they were merely the spiritual descendants of Abraham? It's all quite contractual.
It may not, it is probably just because most Bible teachers are dispensationalists so present Daniel from that point of view. It can reconciled with either I believe.
@@marukchozt6744 Covenant Theology states that the covenant of works promised righteousness and eternal life for Adam and his descendants for his obedience in abstinence from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But I do not see this Covenant. And Covenant Theology established this commandment as that law to Adam which "continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness" until Sinai when it was written into the Sinai law.l
Rev. 20:12, " I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done." [ESV]. Covenant of Works/Law = "books" (plural), "according to what THEY had DONE". ----> Judgement! Justice! Covenant of Redemption/Grace = "the book of LIFE" (according to what Jesus accomplished in their stead) ----> Soterilogy/Salvation from Judgement and proper Justice. Scripture teaches Covenant Theology right there in Rev. 20! Amazing. *Soli Deo Gloria*
+The death knell of Dispensationalism is inter alia located in the 1917 Scofield "Bible" at Scofield's commentary on John 1:17, to wit: "...As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection of Christ ... The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ..." but what does God say in Romans 4:8 "...for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness..." hence Abraham was saved by the grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ [Romans 3:22 LXX] - for the Law was not only given to Moses AFTER Abraham's death [except if you take the 1st law as obedience to God, Gen 2:16&17] but alas there is no salvation but through Jesus Christ - Acts 4:12. And we all know Abe was a sinner; lying and scheming.
Dispensationaists believe salvation is by grace through faith. There are some confused people that think salvation was by works in the Old Testament era. I suspect you can find the same in the Reformed movement. I don't think the Garden was salvation by works. It was grace.
Salvation in the past REQUIRED works, because salvation requires justification, and justification required works in the OT. If you didn't follow the laws or didn't become circumcised, you would not achieve the righteousness of the law and therefore could not be saved by God.
A reason again to keep argument going instead of teaching of how to truly follow christ. Instead people such as this argue words, names. "Proper tradition" When the bible tsught importance.on none of this. But many won't knkw that because the lesson isn't given.. How will the people hear the good news without those to preach it. How will you preach it if you are preoccupied with continuing argument over proper lace tying technique while others run past you in the race?
Covenant theologian: The church is the true Israel. The Pope: We've been saying that for 2000 years. Dispensationalist: What about Israel being back in their land? Replacement Theologians: That doesn't mean anything, it just happened....
Is that all the Jews want? It is eventually going to be destroyed with a new Heaven and Earth in it's place. Jesus message of "Good News" was talking about heaven, from what I understand and that you are saved by God's Love through Jesus.
they’re not back in their land. you’re telling me Netanyahu is a descendant of the ancient Israelites? and Albert Einstein? And Adam Silver? And Mark Zuckerberg? yeah right
@@johniii8400 "the jews" have their own Moshiach, who is not Jesus Christ the Messiah, whom they had crucified by "rome". "the jews" want the world to worship both them and their god, satan, the man of sin. 2Thess2. Look up "noahide laws".
@@johniii8400I wouldn't uses necessarily the word heaven but I believe that God's kingdom would be more accurate as it describes our place of dwelling as the Place where God's himself dwells. Revelation makes it clear that new jerusalem comes down to earth and the lamb and our God dwells with man in the new earth.
The real deal is that the New Covenant, found in Jeremiah 31:31 with cross-references in Hebrews 8:8,13 and 12:24, specifically say the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Anyone trying to claim that for themselves is a thief and robber. Paul doesn't mention it, Peter, James and John don't mention it. Guess who else doesn't mention it? *JESUS* . For people who go on and on endlessly about proper contextual hermeneutics and exposition, that's some serious hypocritical butchery of all relevant texts.
I don’t see how these two things are mutually exclusive. It sounds like the Bible in both. Perhaps instead of standing against your own interpretations, you just trust God that His will is both.
It doesn't specifically say that, that's just a summary. God told Adam to 1) Be fruitful 2) Multiply 3) Subdue the earth 4) Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good an evil As long as Adam and Eve, and their descendants, did those things, they would stay with God in the garden of Eden. That is a covenant and it's based on works. The covenant was broken when Adam and Eve disobeyed and did an evil work - eating that fruit.
Two ginormous challenges with covenant theology are not interpreting Scripture literally and believing that the gentile church has replaced Israel. Great, clear, helpful, broad distinction between the two views. Thank you.
"First, the literalist/symbolic argument. As you know (and admit) not everything in the Bible is to be interpreted literally. Even a stalwart dispensationalist like Hal Lindsey admits that “Premillennialists interpret literally and allegorically. The issue is to let the text dictate when to interpret allegorically instead of our theological presuppositions.” To claim that preterists do not interpret the Bible literally is a gross misrepresentation and oversimplification of the sophistication and complexity of biblical hermeneutics. Similar to dispensationalists, we interpret the majority of texts literally and some texts “spiritually” or symbolically because we believe, following solid hermeneutical principles, that at times the Bible demands, for the lack of a better description, a “spiritual interpretation.” I could cite numerous examples from dispensational writers to support this easily provable and accepted claim. Jesus calls His body a temple (John 2:21). His opponents understood Him literally (Matt. 26:61). We’re not sure what His disciples thought. To be “born again” refers to a spiritual rebirth (John 3:3), not a re-entry into the womb, something Nicodemus, “a teacher in Israel,” should have understood (3:10)." Gary Demar Second, covenant theology holders do not believe that the church replaced Israel, but believe that the Gentiles were grafted into the true Israel.
They believe Gentiles were GRAFTED IN, no replacement: AT THE CROSS Jesus' blood brought them together forever into ONE BODY: - "tearing down the dividing wall of enmity between the two" - "creating ONE NEW MAN betwixt the TWO" - "there is NOW, therefore, NO difference between Jew and Greek"
@@ServantOfJesusChrist777 Spiritually I agree at a cursory level, we have been grafted in. However, God has stated that His plan was to cause the Jewish people to be jealous as we gentiles are grafted in, and ultimately bring them back, meaning there are still two distinct categories of sheep in the fold. God has never communicated that the Church and the nation of Israel are synonymous or merged in any way. A sample few of the verses that would have to be overlooked or changed in meaning to support a merge the Church body with the nation of Israel include Deuteronomy 14:2, 26:17-19; 1 Kings 10:9; Psalm 135:4; Psalm 105:8-15; Hebrews 8:8-13; Romans 10, 11:1-32.
@brians.mcdowell1288 ok, I will look at these scriptures you gave me. In the meantime, here is where Paul says that we are NOW "no longer FOREIGNERS" and are now part of the "Commonwealth of ISRAEL" vs 12 & 19 below. Ephesians 2:12-16, 18-22 KJV [12] that at THAT time ye were without Christ, being ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] but NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes WERE far off are made NIGH by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made us BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; [15] having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN, so making peace; [16] and that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] NOW therefore YE ARE are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, AND OF THE HOUSEHOLD of God; [20] and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Well, and of course, I disagree because I believe the 490 year probation for the NATION of Israel, (i.e. for the people, the Jews) to be SEPARATE, their probation period to recognize Jesus as God and stop sinning (which sinning means not to recognize Jesus as God and Messiah) (the Daniel 9, 7 x 70 years) ended at the stoning of Steven. So then, at the Cross, Jesus ended the division of races and created a New Covenant. Either one loves and believes Jesus is LORD and is therefore a "Jew" and also "Israel", Israel meaning the PEOPLE, or they are UNbelievers, i.e. they are LOST SHEEP. He is "No respecter of persons". Person's, i.e. races. As Paul said, there is no Synthian, no Barbarian, no male or female, no Jew or Greek (NOT ANYMORE). Since I don't believe in a pre trib Rapture, I don't either believe the Millennium is just for the Jews. That would be really rude to Gentiles to make us wait 1,000 more years, after we were the first to recognize Jesus. No bueno! Any Jew that wants to, just like a Gentile, can come to believe Jesus is God whenever they CHOOSE. Jews are not held back, NOT BLINDED from believing SINCE THE CROSS. If that were the case there would not be "Christian Jews" in the world. Yes, He DID make them jealous. But that doesn't mean they have to WAIT TILL the Millennium to believe! Blessings upon you brother!
Adam was given a command, not a covenant. The so-called covenants of works and grace are theological, not biblical. Flawed hermeneutic...in my humble, dispensational opinion. Love my covenant brothers. Let us keep laboring for the unity of the faith.
At least one is wrong. Why not go to the letters of Paul? Christ gave the right Gospel/Theologie to His slave Paul. The right theologie is the saving Gospel. You can find it in 1Cor.15 verses 1 to 8.
Covenant Theology....approaching Scripture literally EXCEPT the prophetic books....then they change to a Preterist view of things and view Daniel and Revelation more allegorical. Hmmmm???
The major mistake concerning dispensationalism was made by the protestant reformers is that they have formulated two plans of salvation. One for the jews and another for the gentiles. Acts 2:38 the teach is the jewish plan of salvation and Romans 10:10 for the gentiles. Their major error is revealed in that all of Pauls' letters begin with the greeting,"..to the saints of..". Paul would hardly seek to bring a new plan of salvation, other that Acts 2:38, to already saved believers. Furthermore we have Paul lead the disciples, in Acts ch.19, to salvation following Acts 2:38. Lastly, Paul said himself," There are neither jew nor gentile, bond nor free,male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus"(Gal.3:28).
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We fell because of Eve, not because of Adam, and original sin or rather our fallen nature is inherited through the maternal line. That's why it matters that Jesus was born of a mortal woman and therefore his Earthly body was of our fallen nature. If it were through Adam, his living a sinless life would mean nothing because he would not have inherited that corruption and he would not have been able to pay the wages of sin for others. The whole thing does not work If you put it on Adam.
Nice work grabbing the term covenant theology before the other group got it first😂 But seriously, the Gospel is the most important thing, but not the only thing. Discernment of God's several (6 mainly) covenants will lead to more agreement with the dispensationalists than the replacement...er i mean covenant theologians.
Some of the many troubles with Dispensationalism are: 1)Gods actions are simply reactions to what the people of Israel do. This is bunk. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He has predestined all things. Either you believe what the Bible says or not. You can’t pick and choose which parts you want to believe and apply those to an agenda or pre-conceived idea one may have. 2) It says that the death and resurrection of Jesus was not enough or that it wasn’t for everyone. This is a lie from the pit. 3) It divides believers and creates confusion. God is not the author of confusion or division within the body. 4) It takes our eyes off of what is really happening and has us focused on what Israel is doing. Meanwhile, Satan has infiltrated the governments, churches, and media at the highest levels. We need to be focused on understanding the Word. There are a lot of false teachers and doctrines that have been able to spread because people don’t understand that the Word of God is the daily bread of life. God said his people would perish from lack of knowledge. Don’t be one who perishes under false doctrines like this. Covenant all the way!! ❤ 🍞
@Micah-6.8 You make a great argument against the covenant position. Dispensationalists are the ones who take Scripture at face value. We focus on the literal plain interpretation. The Covenant position is only tenable through picking and choosing what Scripture is to be interpreted literally and which is metaphorical. Dispensationalism does not see God as changing or reacting. We believe in His complete sovereignty and the he does not change nor break His promises. We also firmly believe in the sufficient sacrifice of Christ once for all as the ONLY way to God. We don't divide believers. Any division was caused centuries after the Apostle Paul and John clearly stated Israel's place in God's future plans in Romans and Revelation. There is no hint of amillenialism in the Bible. It takes in imposed system of interpretation to reach that conclusion. I pray you do better research before you attack fellow believers who are committed to a consistent hermeneutic.
@@peoplefirst1855 , Very well said, and the best comment of any sort that I've read today, that wasn't anecdotal. May God Bless you richly my Brother in Christ.
he is my favorite Bible teacher of all time, but he just regurgitates Darby's dispensationalist theology as did his mentor Chuck Smith, and most of the American evangelical teachers today. Doesn't mean he is wrong, but I believe he is, and he still is my favorite.
Romans 4:3 King James Version 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. There is nowhere in scripture anyone is saved by works! All from Old Covenant, to the New Covenant is saved by the blood of Jesus Christ! The Old Covenant was a shadow pointing to Christ Gal 3:24,25. The New Covenant is a fulfillment of that prophecy Luke 24:44.
The New Testament interprets the old and you'll see clearly that Steven in Acts 7 callswondering Israel the "church" in the wilderness . And also this : "And many will come from the east and the west and sit at the table with Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ... " again this sheds light on the one people of God
Agreed. His description of dispensationalism was not accurate. There is more than one "church" in scripture. The "church in the wilderness" is one, as you correctly pointed out. That' why us dispensationalists don't call anything just "the church". That would be confusing. We would say "the church, which is His body". But more specifically, to be part of God's chosen you had to become a member of Israel in the past, and a member of the "one new man" today.
Not really. Galatians 3:3 "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Even if you start with the correct gospel, you can be pulled away and try to justify yourself by your works.
God made a New Covenant with the house of Israel into which 11 Israelites, having been discipled by God's genuine Son, entered. When Jesus of Nazareth (while still on the cross) drank the fruit of the vine, that New Covenant became active. Since Jesus had never sinned, all the blessing of the law of Moses became His inheritance- and the Treasury of New Covenant Israel. Since then, the gospel has been believed by gentiles who have been adopted into the house of Israel.
Unfortunately, Brian , the traditional dispensational view is still the majority view in American evangelism by far. There are even more sinister views rising centered on an unbiblical view of God's wrath. Progressive dispensationalism, despite Dallas Theological Seminary's best efforts to rescue a failed system, is still unbiblical and, fortunately unheard of by most Christians. Do a tour of churches throughout the country and attennd their adult Sunday school and listen to their eschatological sermons, and you'll hear the echoes of the nonsense of Darby and Scofield.
Ask the kind gentle man to explain the vicarious law obedience to which Jesus was obligated by his Covenant Theology. They say that by the works of the law Jesus earned our righteousness and eternal life. Then read Romans 3:20-22. Therefore by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight...But now the righteousness without the law is manifested...Evev the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ..
Com’on all theological smarties, read Romans 11. Paul flatlines all this theological palaver! For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? STOP THE NONSENSE AND STRIVE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! Romans 8:9.
The following quote supports covenant theology which says God has only one people. "Our religion is the religion of Abraham before he was circumcised." [Eusebius]
Simplistic? Maybe. However, many Bible believers, in just simply studying God’s Word, end up with strands of what some call covenant theology and strands of what some call dispensational theology to have a simple biblical theology!
Blood and water easily mix also. But that blood might have hurt somebody a little bit. What is the Covenant cost to the Gospel? What have they added? What have they altered? How much came from the Roman Catholic law righteousness? Go ahead you can see that the fruit is good to eat. So take just one eentzy weentzy tiny little bite.
While the explanation is pretty fair, I see NO way to argue against dispensationalism. When we come to any given text, we're to find out, not just who God is speaking TO, but who God is speaking ABOUT. In o/words, the historical-grammatical approach is not only the most LOGICAL, but I don't think it can be argued against, convincingly.
There is a huge difference from saying the bible (the word of God) is the final authority and the sole authority. Pompous people like this stuffed shirt twist the gospel message into a works based life in which somebody never knows whether he has eternal assurance of salvation.
As much as men will disagree about many non essential things such as dispensation and covenant and Calvinism and Armenian it all boils down to Faith in Christ alone. I think when we get to heaven we will be in awe of how all were incomplete in understanding. Put your faith in Christ and Christ Alone. Not a faith that will fix your issues in this temporary world as so many churches want to preach but faith in His life death and resurrection for the redemption of your sinful existence in this world. 🙏
Go on...with your gross misunderstanding...
The guy who replied to you must have a grasp on e/thing, & knows it all, 'eh? *smh*
@@jmitch9269 Amen, brother
It clearly shows that the person in the video is a Covenant believer, since they got the better polished description.
But it still didn't clarify things enough for me. The search continues. :)
"there´s Israel and there´s the church" is what the man says at the beginning of the video.
"Israel" as far as "the church" is concerned, is "the jew" and "the church" comprises "the gentiles." The term "gentile" is a fiction. What does it mean? Who is "the jew"?
There are 10 nations of Israel (+ some Levites), which are still scattered. What God has scattered, He will gather. Israel was carried off into Assyrian captivity. Assyria is Germany.
The tribe of Judah absorbed Simeon and some of Levi was sent to Babylon into captivity and then "sold to Greece" (Joel 3.6) That is why Judah is referred to in the "new" testament as "the Greek".
Obadiah, Ezkekiel 35 & 36 relay that when Judah was taken into captivity, Esau moved in and possessed the land that did not belong to him.
When Christ came to earth, He gathered for the first time both Israel and Judah together, joining the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 for the first time in John 12.20-24.
The Israelite disciples of Christ were Galileans, "Gal" was a name used by some Israelites, for example Galicia in Poland/Ukraine. There is also a Galicia in Spain and a Galatia n the Bible! There are more, but I have forgotten them.
These people all spoke one language - which could have been: Gaelic.
Before Christ was crucified and resurrected, He told His disciples that they would be scattered again due to persecution, but that He would gather them once more, which He will do at the end of time. Isaiah 11.11
The truth is clear and simple to understand, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. But the truth has been twisted to unrecognizability through the teaching deliberately false doctrines, name changes and of course, identity theft.
The birthright is what it is all about and it was stolen from Jacob-Israel by Esau.
@@godisreality7014😂 bro STFU... Are you black Hebrew?!?!
Just study the bible. If you chose a camp then you will stymie a deeper understanding of God’s Word.
[Gal 3:28-29 NKJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you [are] Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We are all on, we are neither Jew or Greek (gentile) Judah/Southern Kingdom are the Jews who do not except Messiah. We must remember there is Israel - the land and Israel the people (Jews who believe in Messiah Yeshua and those of us grafted in because our belief.)
Well spotted... If you are looking for a simple and free pdf, here you go (enjoy!): www.gbv-dillenburg.de/pdf/1036490%20Buch%20Haushaltungen%20Englisch%202024%20www.pdf
I really appreciate your effort to not down the other view point but present the views to be understood
Especially since the other view is correct.
This pastor seems very gracious and humble, and I like that he talks about how we're alike at the beginning. This is significant in a time where everyone wants to rip each other apart over differences of opinion. However, he's definitely a covenant theologian, and you could tell from the way he presented both theological perspectives. He spent like 40-45 seconds on dispensationialism and 2 minutes on covenant theology. Not only that, but a lot of what he said covenant theologians believe, dispensationalists do as well. This is why there are so many comments about people saying they're a mix of both. To do both theological theories justice, you need to spend more than 3 minutes explaining them. Not trying to be too critical of him. Like I said, he seems gracious and humble, but there's definitely some slight bias in there. It may be unintentional. Peace be with you and God bless!
Such a well expressed and proper critique
you are probably a dispensationalist
I can imagine someone in the Garden speaking slowly, softly, in low measured tone presenting the true value of the fruit, in trustable older brother helpfulness. The fruit was prohibited because that was only part of a campaign to limit these people's happiness. This kind man is not telling us the source and true cost, to Jesus and the cost to the gospel of this Roman Catholic works righteousness distortion named innocently "Covenant Theology". It is such a unifying theology, a peaceful message concentrating on the gospel. Take a peaceful bite. Just one little bite. You will soon be defining everything differently, unifyingly, edifyingly. You will soon find that you no longer need Jews to comprise Israel. We now need only Gentiles Christians in Israel.
@@davimagalhaesribeiro9548 100%, but I don't believe that invalidates my assessment. It supports the fact that I can verify a lot of what he says about covenant theology, dispensationalists also believe. Again, I wasn't seeking to attack him. I merely wanted to address the misrepresentation with grace by complementing his gental spirit.
Peace be with you and God bless!
It's rather appropriate, because Christians spent 1900 years believing in covenant theology before some heretics invented dispensation.
Succinct. Clear. Charitable. Thank you, Dr. Waters.
and kind! Praising Jesus.
Dispensationalists tend to see things like the rapture of the church to heaven in 1 Thes 4 and in Rev 4:1 for instance, which I used to agree with but now can't see it. In 1 thes 4 it talks about at Christ's return, believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. It doesn't say that go up to heaven. I believe it's like meeting a friend at the airport who is returning to his home country. You welcome his back and stay in that country. If not then I don't get how it says as Christ's return if it's just a split second rapture with no touch down on planet earth. Just my thoughts. I never saw this for years though.
I agree. I think it takes much more mental gymnastics and scripture twisting to teach the teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture then it does to see the Covenant theology, just open the front of the book!! Covenants, instructions (Torah), writings and the prophets!! It’s so clear and cannot believe I glossed over it all these years!! Listened to too many dispensationalists. Oy Vay!
Read 1Cor. 15:23-24, so you can be really confused.
It's the fulfillment of the gospel not being preached currently, and no rapture. Mt. 24:14.
Why do covenant theologians so often repeat the same tiresome canard? At 0:53, we're told dispensationalists believe that "throughout history, God has had two peoples ... and two destinies for those two peoples". NO! Dispensationalists recognize that salvation is always by grace through faith regardless if one is a Jew or gentile. A saved Jew is no different than a saved gentile, right? And dispensationalists also recognize that God is not yet finished with ethnic Israel. He still has a land for them, and He will bring many Jews to saving faith. So why does that biblical fact have to translate into a "two peoples" and "two destinies" narrative? It doesn't, and it shouldn't.
Because it is true. While I agree with your statement… kinda… special provisions are made to those who are genetically Jewish. For example, Jews have special temporal promises before and after Christ that gentiles don’t. And even after the rapture, Jews have special provisions for how and why they are saved than gentiles. Where covenant theology does not.
@@samueljimenez7420 I never said that God is done with ethnic Israel. I don't subscribe to supersessionism (which is what many covenant theologians embrace). My point was that salvation is ALWAYS by grace through faith, regardless of one's ethnicity, gender, etc.
@@johnclaiborne2749 actually, as a post-mil supersessionist I actually believe God will save the Jews are exponentially larger numbers than dispensationalists. The nation of Israel will repent and many Jews for generations will be saved. I also didn’t say you said God was done with ethnic Israel. I said dispensationalists make special provisions for ethnic Israel. Before, and after the cross and even after this supposed rapture that covenant theology does not. Covenant theology is far more consistent with the same provision for gentiles and Jews as far as salvation goes.
I also tire of the mischaracterization of dispensationalism. I do not see it today in all its systems, but the core which sees promises to Israel that God has still to fulfill is biblically solid. One has only to see unified Israel today as evidence. All eyes will be looking to Jerusalem in the end.
Thank you for the brotherly, non-confrontational way of presenting! A few questions though: If there is only one people of God (and hence Israel is the church and the church is Israel) why, then, does the NT teach that Israel is "hardened"? And "will be saved" in the future? See Rom 11,25.26. And that the veil is still on their eyes today but will be removed in the future? (2. Cor. 3:14-16)? Israel, nationally "will return to the Lord" (2. Cor. 3:16) - those who compose the church, on the other hand, have long returned to the Lord, they are already saved and they are not hardened.
Romans 11 was poorly written.... the redeemer rcoming out of Zion to deliver Israel was Jesus of course and a historical fact. He came first for the lost sheep,,, not the jews at large, then he cursed them with "I LEAVE YOU YOUR HOUSE DESOLATE",,, end of story for them. They will never see him until they say "blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord" ,,, that is the one preaching the gospel as all true believers do. fI they hear and are converted they become part of the church,,, the children of God. One Lord ONE FAITH. Romans 11 was superseded by Paul with,,, there is neither jew nor gentile in Jesus. God does not recognize race as of any importance. Paul is allowed to change his mind,,, he is fallible Just a man..
@@dsheppard8492 Thank you for your response - which speaks for itself. In order to maintain the pre-conceived ideas of covenant theology you have to blame the Apostle Paul, claim Romans 11 was "poorly written" (would you believe it?) and tell us that Paul "changed his mind"! It seems you have long left behind the truth of the inerrency of scripture and of verbal inspiration. And no wonder. For if you admit that God's word is just that - God's word - it becomes clear in an instance that convenantalism falls over like a house of cards - the minute you accept God's word.
The redeemer coming out of Zion will be Jesus, but it was not a historical fact. Please note the future tense: "And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”". Even at the time the Apostle Paul penned this letter, it was still future, not only from Isaiah's p.o.v. but also from Paul's: "all Israel will be saved".
Why don't you accept the Word of God and adjust your thoughts in the light of God's? I am not saying this to attack you but because I desire your blessing (while feeling compelled to warn others about the errors of covenant theology).
PS: You can watch this video (as well as others in this playlist) with English subtitles: ua-cam.com/video/gTL9_bSA9ws/v-deo.html
@@michaelhardt5094 Thanks for the informative dialogue. For myself, I have become uncomfortable with dispensationalism after finding out it is a very new idea based on the teachings of one person. That being John Nelson Darby in the 19th Century. That alone makes me uncomfortable with it.
I suspect that the Apostle Paul was a covenant theologian. He said, 'For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise'. ( Gal 3:27-29 ).
AMEN Brother.
I thought dispensationalism also conveyed that different parts of the bible address different people in different time periods.
Yes they understand the Bible
No one ever said he's don't have to accept Christ. He is the messiah
It does, dispensationalism teaches Gods plan for Israel and Gods plan for the church, In the OT God dealt with Israel as a nation when Jesus came God was still dealing with Israel as a nation through his message on the Kingdom of heaven which they were looking for in an earthly Messiah and Jesus began introducing Christian doctrine through his preaching ( John 3:3) the Kingdom of Heaven is an earthly kingdom, the Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom. When the Jews as a nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah he was cut off from Israel ( Daniel 9) after the cross and resurrection the Apostles took the message to the Jews and many believed , through the Apostle Paul the message on Christian doctrine was preached concerning the Kingdom of God ( a spiritual kingdom) and both Jews and Gentiles if they believe in Jesus are part of the Kingdom of God and the message to the nation of Israel and Jews was slowly transitioning to the Gentiles which became known as the time of the Gentiles or the church age or the age of grace which will continue until the rapture of the church. After the temple was destroyed in 70 AD the Jews was disbursed among all nations as prophesied until 1948 when Israel became a nation once again (Isaiah 66) The church has not replaced Gods covenant people Israel because in the Tribulation God will once again be dealing with the nation of Israel for the last time it is known as Jacob’s trouble - who is Jacob in the Bible ? Physical Israel. The church is spiritual Israel now and the promises God made to Israel the church can claim but that dosent mean God cast off his people Israel- natural Jews ( see Romans 9-11 ) all Israel ( believing Jews ) will be saved when Jesus returns to set up his earthly kingdom known as the Millennium for 1,000 years where the church and believing Jews from the Tribulation will rule and reign. If the promises to Israel was fulfilled in the church then God is a liar because throughout the Old Testament God promised Israel would not cease to be his people and the kingdom promises would be fulfilled in them. Covenant Theology or Replacement Theology is heresy because it misinterprets the scriptures concerning Israel. There’s on,y one way to be saved during the church age which is by faith in Christ alone and not by works for both Jew and Gentiles but in the tribulation salvation is received by faith and works- why? Because God is dealing with Israel not the church who is in heaven at this point and must profess faith in Jesus and keep the commandments of God( Rev.14:12 here is the patience of the saints - those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus ( faith and works ). So we have to study the word and rightly divide the word and not go by denominations or traditions but by what the Bible says
He said that
@@marcgunz
It a complicated issue (Dispensational theology has become less ridged on some issues).
Israel is blinded for a time so the full measure of gentiles can receive the message than they will embrace Jesus as Messiah/Lord/God and fulfil their purpose. It allows for the Old Testament covenants to be everlasting yet stand alone for the Jews (thought salvation is still only possible by G-d's grace not works, the Messiah's sacrifice). Rabbinic or Orthodox Judaism has so entwined it's faith in man made extras that the real purpose and meaning of the covenants has been hidden. The New Covenant is a fulfillment of the original Covenants purpose yet maintains Jews unique status of His chosen people.
It avoids two possible difficulties for covenant theology. It maintains a unity between Jews and gentiles in relationship to G-d and doesn't make the OT a failure needing a New Covenant to cover the Jews laps in following G-d.
I can feel the typing of others refuting me. Be kind and generous but most of all explanatory and clear in the reason you disagree. Thanks
@@marcgunz The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are used interchangeably in scripture in my opinion. Mat 19 where is says it is harder for a rich man to enter the KOH and then the KOG in the next verses. Also Matthew's accounts use the expression the KOH and the other gospels parallel passages use KOG. So In my opinion those 2 facts make the 2 things the same. They are not the same as heaven. God's plan of redemption is through the gospel in my opinion and that new coventant will not ever change. I don't believe the church is raptured to heaven and then the gospel becomes irrelevant or altered. Salvation is always by faith, Abraham and the others listed in Hebrews 11 had faith. We have faith in Christ. And that's the only way anyone will ever get saved from not till the end. And Romans 11 does not say all Israel will be saved when Jesus returns. It says "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved." Also, people who believe that at a point in the future all Israel will be saved, often act like all Israel today are God's children, or ignore the fact that most of the Jews throughout history have not accepted Messiah.
Thank you for this excellent, succinct, easy to understand explanation.
It takes a great deal of theological gymnastics to set aside the unconditional promises of God to Abraham and David, to ignore the clarity of Paul's theology in Romans 9-11, and to miss the clear flow of the Book of Revelation. The God of the Bible is a promise keeping God because His promises are rooted in His never changing character, not in the performance of men.
If you read the Bible you would know that it says if we are believers in Christ we are heirs to promise and counted as abrahams seed and that not all of abrahams seed by flesh are not counted as seed because of unbelief
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821and when you read the Bible even more you will understand that God has elected to save His current enemies to bring them to Himself. Because they are still the people to whom He made promises. Jews are still Israel. Israel is still Israel. The Church is still not Israel..
@@JosephBoxmeyer wrong. The bible CLEARLY states that you are not the seed or son of Abraham because of genetics but because of faith so you are wrong
@JosephBoxmeyer promises were made to Abraham and his seed. Not seeds as of many but as of and to thy seed which is Christ. That's in Galatians. It says the promises are made to Abraham and his seed and if you aren't seed, which is based on the election grace, you are not cou ted therfore the promise is not applied to them
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821 Patience, please, I do not see your point. That Gal. 3:16 " of one..Christ" is not intended as the end, not as the limit. But as the channel. The election by grace is of course through Christ. We see a good example of such election by grace, in accordance with God's faithfulness to His promises in Romans 11:28, There, those many Jews needed to comprise that "all Israel" who will be saved are here affirmed to have already been elected in preparation for that verse 26 mass salvation. They are from Abraham through Jacob by flesh, Israel by flesh, but also God's elect through Christ. Of course, from Abraham by flesh by nationality is not sufficient. But those many Jews are also seed through Christ by election.
the way he start is also so calming thanks !
The way he describes both, I feel compelled to support both ways of thinking.
My thoughts as well.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think that reading the Bible from cover to cover leads to covenant theology, especially because we see Jesus and the Church as Israel.
@@FRodriguez_ How can the Church be Israel?
You can't support both positions, they contradict 😅
@nate78824 there is no replacement. Believers in Christ were always the children of promise, which is israel. "The jews" were chosen to bring the messiah, the seed (not seeds) of abraham.
The abrahamic covenant was unconditional and fulfilled through Abraham's seed, which is Jesus.
The mosaic covenant was conditional on the israelites upholding God's law. The israelites broke the covenant by failing to uphold their end of the bargain (keeping the law). And this isn't to put them down, no man can keep the law, which is why we are saved by faith, not by the law.
Is there a 'bottom line' concerning 'covenant theology' as opposed to 'dispensationalism'? I believe so. This is it, imho: Jesus replaces everything. John 14:6-"I am the way, the truth, and the life; and NO ONE comes to The Father except by Me." The promises that the prophets of the Tanakh made to Israel/Judea now belong to EVERYONE who calls on God; that is, who calls on THE ONLY ONE who leads to The Father and to life thereafter. Amen.
It’s the only thing that makes any sense. The physical and spiritual. 👍
Jesus does not replace everything. He was slain before the foundation of the earth. The people of Jacob-Israel are still scattered. He will gather the remaining remnant at the end of time. Isaiah 11.11.
"jews" are anti-Christ Esau.
You didn't quite SEE what he said. But he used the wrong word, Jesus RECONCILED EVERYONE who "CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" to Himself. Replaced isnt what he did. ALL BELIEVERS are NOW referred to as "Jews" and also as "Israel" or "ONE BODY IN CHRIST" because the BELIEVING Gentiles were GRAFTED UNTO Israel (Israel is defined as a nation of PEOPLES, not a place).
And then, yes, there is another group of souls, but not bloodline, who are UNBELIEVERS, BOTH Jew and Greek.
Problem with dispensationalisim is that it makes part of what Jesus did on the Cross null and void! Yes there are different "Ages" according to God, but since the CROSS there is ONLY ONE "MAN"KIND, ONE BODY OF CHRIST who BELIEVE that Jesus is GOD. The only other group of people are those who don't recognize Jesus ALREADY CAME and
"reconciled ALL to Himself"
There's NOW only ONE BODY (the ecclesia) since the CROSS when Jesus rent the veil between man and God and broke down the dividing wall between Jew and Greek, by His BLOOD:
🔹1) He "... tore down the dividing wall, creating ONE NEW MAN betwixt the TWO."
- Paul.
That one new man made from BOTH is called a " BELIEVER" or a Disciple and referred to as "Jews" or as "Israel"
Paul to the CHURCHES:
🔹 "For there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither male nor female, there is neither bond nor free. For ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus..." - Gal 3:28
🔹Col 3:11 - "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision or uncircumcision, Barbarian, Synthian, bond nor free; but Christ is all IN ALL".
🔹Ro 10:12 - "For there is no difference between Jew and Greek. For the same Lord over all is rich to ALL that call on Him.
🔹Cor 1:24 - "But unto THEM who are CALLED, both Jews AND Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God".
🔹2) He ALSO gave ALL people NEW forever BODIES when He returns (thru His BEATING) (because there is no difference between people in His eyes. I.E., He is no respecter of "persons"):
"by His STRIPES WE are HEALED" ... (some bodies with their souls will go different places)
🔹His sacrifice rent the veil, giving believers direct access to petition the Throne on our own behalf, without the need of an earthly Priest. THROUGH the authority given us by the blood of Jesus as our NEW HIGH PRIEST, we ALL, even Unbelievers who have a mustard seed of FAITH IN JESUS, are able thru Jesus' name to talk directly to God. And Jesus is there to advocate for "ALL WHO CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD".
And this is eternal life that you may know the father. Jesus.
Excellent explanation but I do not see a conflict between the two views. What I see is quite complimentary. There are definite periods of history. There are two peoples (two olive trees, two lamp stands, two witnesses). There is one Saviour who will reconcile all of God's people back into God's Kingdom at the end of days.
God does not change. He is purifying the seed of Jacob-Israel (not Esau) for the last day when He will gather them together again at last.
Bible says if you have faith in Christ YOU are an heir to promises given to abraham and counted as his seed and some of those who are his seed by flesh will.not be counted because of their unbelief. Promises stood on faith not a physical bloodline. Bible says this in romans. Roman 4 I believe says the promises ar avoid without faith
@@caughtinthevoidfloyd5821 absolutely correct. The Pharisees and Saducces were all Jewish. So were the disciples. And as for the olive tree, some of the natural branches were cut off and un natural brances grafted in. If the olive tree was originally Israel then it is not believing Jews and gentiles according to that illustartion isn't it?
I agree - although it's also trivially easy to see how most would view this as an "either/or" proposition.
Long story short the root of this problem is the final Chapters of Ezekiel that speak of a 4th Temple that has never existed in history. So the assumption is that it must be the Jerusalem Temple of the earthly Millennium. Which the Jews must inherit on Earth according to the Prophet Daniel.
However what isn't clear in Ezekiel - but is well understood from many other prophetic verses about the Mt Zion Millennium - is that it is a Heaven-on-Earth just like Eden.
In other words, you can see & experience the heavenly parts of that reality if you are also "heavenly" - like Adam & Eve before The Fall, or Jesus after The Resurrection.
But if you are only "earthly" like Ezekiel, then you can only see the earthly parts of that. But you can also experience the heavenly part of it in 2x ways.
1st as of a sound of many rushing waters (earthly side is Ezekiel 43:2 & Revelation 19:5 - while heavenly side is Revelation 3:5; 7:9,13; & 19:8).
2nd is the blessings of having that Heaven-on-Earth Glory in and around the Millennium Temple. And also the Paradise blessings of the Heaven-on-Earth River flowing out of the Millennium Temple (Ezekiel 47:8-12)
Thank God He taught me to that He made covenants with His people from the beginning.
Havent the foggiest
I know that my redeemer liveth!
Don't you mean you knoweth?
you should know why you believe what you believe our faith is not blind. 😀
So more for your evangelism...
The words of Job
He wasnt into the ins and outs
Of theology just a simple man
Who had faith!
You can see why bible scholars and theologians clash.
Theologians use long words to summarise and indicate that they think they’ve got a theological system. Bible scholars are studying what the bible says without a preconceived theological straight-jacket.
Another critical distinctive of dispensationalism is progressive revelation. Remember that dispensationalism is a hermeneutic. It takes Scripture at face value and interprets it from a literal, historical, grammatical, and consistent perspective.
Unfortunately for these believers, they miss the most important revelations in Scripture, especially the New Testament words of Jesus. The most important lessons (the MEAT) are the SPIRITUAL, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who have EYES TO SEE. Unfortunately, dispensation theology purposefully pushes those who listen to it NOT TO LOOK FOR THE HIDDEN WISDOM contained in everything Jesus said. THIS is the difference in understanding MILK or MEAT.
One MUST see the Spiritual Laws / meanings underlying what happened at the Cross and Prophecy in order to truly understand all WORDS which JESUS SPOKE, which is the ENTIRE WORKS of the Old and New Testament. For instance: Jesus is the Creator, HE'S the one who SPOKE everything into being. That's why He is called "The WORD". He's the "Angel of the LORD" throughout the Old Testament, and he's the extra stranger who knows all about God who comes onto the conversation between Job and His two other friends. He's Melchizedek, the High Priest who Abraham pays tithes to.
Most EVERY scripture, especially where God, who is Jesus, speaks, has a MUCH MORE IMPORTANT meaning than LITERAL INTERPRETATION.
THIS is where it's exciting to "Meditate line upon line and precept (spiritual concept) upon precept". To DISCOVER THE UNDERLYING SPIRITUAL MEANING, only discoverable to THOSE WHO LOVE JESUS. These spiritual concepts are what were HIDDEN from the Jews when God blinded them.
Dispy is a horrible Hermeneutics.
Wholly inconsistent with itself; much less the Bible 🤦🏼♂️
I just want to know one thing: I’m anxious that picking a camp (dispensationalism or covenant) is a matter of salvation? Do both ultimately believe salvation by grace alone in Christ alone ?
Yes, both believe in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. You’re good in either camp.
In principle yes. Because dispensationalism is a category and not a doctrinal statement, that means that many if not most dispensationalists are heretical, since most evangelicals are heretical and this is the most popular view. Heretical views include the idea that there was a different way to be saved in the Old Testament, and that Jews today can be saved by being Jews without believing in Jesus. That is apostasy. But it’s not an essential view to believing that God has a future plan for ethnic Israel. John MacArthur is a theologically Reformed dispensationalist and someone to listen to to understand the view
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
@@cosmictreason2242 bs
@@cosmictreason2242 Jews today can be saved by being Jews without believing in Jesus I think only hyper dispensationalists MIGHT believe in that.. that is not even sure.. I never heard a dispensationalists teaching this.
Excellent, thank you!
This description of dispensationalism is about 100 years out of date. The idea of two destinies (earth and heaven) for two peoples (Israel and the church) had been abandoned by dispensationalists by the mid 20th century. The distinction between two peoples of God is not held by Progressive dispensationalism. Similarly, neither traditional nor progressive dispensationalism holds to the dispensation as test idea any longer. I enjoy and have benefited from reading covenant theology and covenant theologians. But a ubiquitous error among covenant theologians is to describe dispensationalism as taught by Darby and Scofield without recognizing the changes and developments to the system. As a result, the dispensationalism they describe is a dispensationalism that no one (certainly no dispensational scholar) holds to today.
I wanted to comment the very same thing. Thank you, brother.
Two destinies and two people in scripture is one of the most obvious and foundational truths of all of scripture. Sorry your traditional theology blinded you to this.
What is the updated dispensational view?
@@Fire_soul1796 Generally speaking, an inconsistent blend between reformed theology and classical dispensationalism. The modern Mid-Acts dispensationalists theology generally describes the more biblically consistent theology with some qualifications.
Which is why covenant theology is the faith❤ once ❤delivered to the Saints.
Well done great explanation of the two views.
I love the opening remarks for intramural harmony's sake in Christ. Well done.
Much of what was said at the tail end could be said of both views as described, even if both descriptions are inadequate.
I lean more on covenant theology but I guess I’m a little dispensational as well 😅
Study scripture is so much fun! Thank you for the video!
Yep … maybe I am not smart enough to see they are two different views. When he described covenant I say yes and when he described dispensationalism I say yes.
To me it just sounds like he is describing the Bible.
I really don’t see how either view is going to take you in a different direction from the other.
Maybe I’m missing something but I doubt it.
@@johnhasty3411 I really enjoyed this comment. I tend to get bogged down in the minutiae, and ultimately get frustrated. I do not want to be experiencing frustration when studying the Word of God. This comment really grounded me, so thank you Brother🙏🏻
At this moment I would say I’m 1689 Federalist which is a fancy way of saying Baptist Covenant theology (my Presbyterian friends may convince me yet) but there is actually a hybrid between dispensational and covenantal called Progressive Covenantal that many Baptists subscribe to. I don’t hold to it myself but that might be a good definition for where you’re at. Maybe look into it and read up on the strength and weaknesses.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
You can’t be both. You must be covenant to be on the journey of salvation.
Sounds like Covenant Theology is Supersessionist (Replacement) Theogy, while Dispensationalism sounds like Dual Covenant.
Covenant theology does not teach any kind of replacement.
God’s people were never ethnic Israel. God’s people were the remnant, the “True Israel”, those who had the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3:7) and not his genetics.
@@noahcutshaw9856 I completely agree with you. But the whole point about dispensationalist’s charge that anyone disagreeing with then subscribes to “Suppersession theology” is their insistence that ethnic/genetic Israel IS God’s chosen and that this will never change. Your citation of Galatians (not to mention other verses from Romans as well) is well taken, but dispensationalists point to Romans 11:26 “and so all Israel will be saved” and insist this refers to “all ethnic/genetic Israel”. I, like you, do not agree with this interpretation.
Yes. Jacob-Israel is replaced with Esau. Duality always points to gnosticism, woe to them who call evil good.
@@noahcutshaw9856 The children of Jacob-Israel are alive and well and still scattered. This is "true Israel". Messiah came for the Lost Sheep of Israel and gathered Judah at the same time. John 12.20-24
@@godisreality7014no, true Israel are those who have the same faith as Abraham. Black and white in the text of Galatians 3.
I really appreciate your earnest demeanor and love for the Lord. My question to you is, since God cannot lie and is perfect, holy and righteous, why would He walk away from a covenant that He made with Israel? Especially if it was an unconditional covenant, that did not depend on what Israel did, or how rebellious they were? Dispensationalism seems to make more sense to me, but I am curious about how you support your beliefs in light of God's unconditional promises...blessings my brother. Keep looking up, as our redemption draws near..
I don't believe this is accurate. Dispensationalists do not believe that Israel has solely an earthly destiny. Far from it. Also, there have not been two peoples throughout history. Israel, as the chosen of God since Abraham and on into eternity, and the Christian church, since Jesus' resurrection and on into eternity. They have a common ultimate destiny but God does treat the two groups differently.
Thank you for clearly that up and expressing that view. If the Jews though have a destiny in the future is that dependent on them accepting Christ? and if so then aren't they just Christians then? If not, then I have a problem there.....
@@michaelnewzealand1888 The Jews would have to accept Jesus as their Messiah. I don't see how that could make them anything but Christians, but they are God's chosen people. The covenant God made with Abraham was an unconditional covenant. No matter what Abraham and his descendants did (or do), God will fulfill the promises of that covenant. There are a lot of differing views on these things and I can fully respect that. There is one Gospel: Abraham's faith was reckoned unto him by God as righteousness. Since Abraham, we are all saved by grace through faith. Abraham looked forward to the cross and we look back.
I believe there will be an actual period of time that is referred to as the Great Tribulation. I believe the Tribulation will be God's last dealing with His people on this earth. Those who accept Jesus as their Messiah will have accepted Him through faith and will be saved by grace. They will join the Church in making up the Bride of Christ. Will the Jews be differentiated on into eternity? I don't know. I don't see any reason why they would be but I am certainly no authority on these matters. Isaiah 55:8-9 should always be kept in mind as should Acts 17:11.
@@Duetmaster2 Everyone must accept Jesus Christ. He is the in all and end all. There is no other name in heaven or earth through which one can be saved. For this reason, God orchestrates the salvation of Jews in end times as well as Gentiles en masse. Both Jew and Gentile must accept Jesus Christ to become children of God.
I am a Christian missionary in Haiti. I lean more to the dispensational approach, but I do not hold to several dispensations. I could be satisfied with one...before the cross and after. I appreciate the spirit with which you share our thoughts. We have too many on both sides that are not as kind as you. Now, I do want to say that I do not think you were very clear about the differences between covenant theology and dispensationalism. Why, because I believe every thing you said about starting with the garden of Eden, the fall and God's provision for salvation through Jesus Christ. To me you just said what the Bible said...and covenant people and dispensational people would all agree with that. Just my thoughts. God bless you.
Yes. While charitable, the video barely describes differences...and faintly skews the dispensational view by passively claiming foundational truths for covenant theology in last minute.
Are you there now, in Haiti?
Yes
True. We began as one in the beginning but there's always a setting apart or separation from evil. Noah and Abraham in Genesis. Moses and Israel set apart in Exodus and beyond. God is still preserving Israel for their final promises in the End Times. In the history of the Reformation we still have a ways to go on hammering out eschatology.
Guy, why did you only fixate on Classical Dispensationalism?
Keith Mattison's book called "Dispensationalism: Rightly dividing the People of God", really explains very well dispensationlism and leaky dispensationlism
Yes, how could there possibly be two peoples of God? How could God ever juggle two balls? Keep it simple. God is simple. Everything is simple. Peace!
@@JosephBoxmeyer
You said "How could God ever juggle two balls?"
Not a very good question. I feel like that would be a pretty easy thing for God to do if he wanted.
@@The757packerfanprecisely my point but juggling the balls is intended to picture God dealing with both Israel and the Church. Where did they get that Covenental rule that God is not competent to manage two peoples of God? Where does the Bible say that?
God will keep his promises to the Jewish people. I think dispensational and covenant thinkers agree on that. The difference is, some dispensational thinkers in Schofield’s time believed that the promises to the Jews were purely earthly, whereas Christians had a spiritual destiny. This belief is not common now. I’m glad.
Some Christians spiritualize the Old Testament promises. They consider them only metaphorical or rhetorical. I believe that to be an error, too. If you take the Bible to be the word of God, both the Old and New Testaments, you have to believe that God keeps his promises.
God KEPT His promises to Abraham and that particular group of identifiable people
Who have now been scattered to the winds. How can you determine who is a true descendant of Abraham ?? You cannot since all the genealogies were destroyed in 70 AD 😞🤦🏼♂️
Also covenant theology as you just described it does not make any sense. Promises were explicitly made to Israel and Abraham and at no point where they ever told to try to save or convert those around them. They were told to stay separate from them and in some cases to destroy them because they were wicked. Then there's the 144,000. At most you could argue that Israel is a subset of the Church but that would still make them two different things.
The first christians were Jews.
The church was built upon the leadership structure set up by Jesus upon the Apostles who were Jews. They were told to go and baptize (mikveh) everyone one time in the name if Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and he born again.
So if there are two covenants, to which do the initial Apostl3s and Jewish converts belong?
Israel or the Church?
@@poorbanishedchildrenofEve is an American Catholic an American or catholic? Israel is a nation, erase of people descended from Abraham. Does promises were made to a bloodline, not to Believers in a faith. The promises to the church were made to believers common not to a bloodline. You can hold the faith and belong to the bloodline and be both part of both Israel and the church or you can belong to either or you can belong to neither
@@GrueTurtlewhat are you doing with verses like romans 9,6? Or John 8,37-46, where Jesus makes clear what makes you the child of anyone
@@TheKing-kb3zr
'not all who are descended from Israel are Israel' refers to products of the Jews' interbreeding with gentiles. Same rationale as having 1 white grandparent and three black ones means you're not white. By race-mixing they broke the rules and are in breach of contract. Their children, therefore, do not inherit the birthright promised to Abraham and his progeny.
John 8:37-46 contrast merely being a literal descendant of Abraham with being that and also otherwise upholding the contract God made with Abraham and the Jews/Israel. The promise was to Israel as a whole- to what we now call the Jewish race, the direct descendants of Abraham. It was not an unconditional promise and it was not made to every single individual Jew. You violate the terms of that promise and you're in breach of contract and you and your descendants lose any claim to what was promised.
Did you think he meant they were the literal flesh and blood offspring of the devil or that they meant they were merely the spiritual descendants of Abraham?
It's all quite contractual.
Thank you for putting a name on what I believe - Covenant theology😊
I'm all for covenant theology.. HOWEVER.. i still see clear promises for a future isreal. Book of daniel clashes with cov theology
It may not, it is probably just because most Bible teachers are dispensationalists so present Daniel from that point of view. It can reconciled with either I believe.
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Bible teachers? Both Jesus and Paul indicated that there would be a future for Israel.
Is there any un biased approach to this topic?
you are clueless, jews and gentile are not the same...
ashamed you know about dispensationalism yet dont understand the truth
Both views have strengths, so I am more in the middle ground NCT/PC.
Both could be true. They are not mutually exclusive
When did God make a covenant with adam of works?
Before the fall, he was to be fruitful and multiply and manage the world
@@marukchozt6744no that was not the covenant of works claimed in Covenant Theology.
@@JosephBoxmeyer What do you think it is then?
@@marukchozt6744 Covenant Theology states that the covenant of works promised righteousness and eternal life for Adam and his descendants for his obedience in abstinence from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But I do not see this Covenant. And Covenant Theology established this commandment as that law to Adam which "continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness" until Sinai when it was written into the Sinai law.l
@@JosephBoxmeyer I thought following God's commandments was also a part of the covenant of works?
Rev. 20:12,
" I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done." [ESV].
Covenant of Works/Law = "books" (plural), "according to what THEY had DONE". ----> Judgement! Justice!
Covenant of Redemption/Grace = "the book of LIFE" (according to what Jesus accomplished in their stead) ----> Soterilogy/Salvation from Judgement and proper Justice.
Scripture teaches Covenant Theology right there in Rev. 20!
Amazing.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
anyone remember just introducing people to Jesus for the first time?! Could we spend more of our money and time on that, please?
+The death knell of Dispensationalism is inter alia located in the 1917 Scofield "Bible" at Scofield's commentary on John 1:17, to wit:
"...As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection of Christ ... The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ..."
but what does God say in Romans 4:8 "...for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness..." hence Abraham was saved by the grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ [Romans 3:22 LXX] - for the Law was not only given to Moses AFTER Abraham's death [except if you take the 1st law as obedience to God, Gen 2:16&17] but alas there is no salvation but through Jesus Christ - Acts 4:12. And we all know Abe was a sinner; lying and scheming.
Dispensationaists believe salvation is by grace through faith. There are some confused people that think salvation was by works in the Old Testament era. I suspect you can find the same in the Reformed movement. I don't think the Garden was salvation by works. It was grace.
Salvation in the past REQUIRED works, because salvation requires justification, and justification required works in the OT. If you didn't follow the laws or didn't become circumcised, you would not achieve the righteousness of the law and therefore could not be saved by God.
Thinking I’m both.
A reason again to keep argument going instead of teaching of how to truly follow christ.
Instead people such as this argue words, names. "Proper tradition"
When the bible tsught importance.on none of this. But many won't knkw that because the lesson isn't given..
How will the people hear the good news without those to preach it.
How will you preach it if you are preoccupied with continuing argument over proper lace tying technique while others run past you in the race?
Covenant theologian: The church is the true Israel. The Pope: We've been saying that for 2000 years. Dispensationalist: What about Israel being back in their land? Replacement Theologians: That doesn't mean anything, it just happened....
Is that all the Jews want? It is eventually going to be destroyed with a new Heaven and Earth in it's place. Jesus message of "Good News" was talking about heaven, from what I understand and that you are saved by God's Love through Jesus.
they’re not back in their land. you’re telling me Netanyahu is a descendant of the ancient Israelites? and Albert Einstein? And Adam Silver? And Mark Zuckerberg?
yeah right
How long is a generation?
@@johniii8400 "the jews" have their own Moshiach, who is not Jesus Christ the Messiah, whom they had crucified by "rome". "the jews" want the world to worship both them and their god, satan, the man of sin. 2Thess2. Look up "noahide laws".
@@johniii8400I wouldn't uses necessarily the word heaven but I believe that God's kingdom would be more accurate as it describes our place of dwelling as the Place where God's himself dwells. Revelation makes it clear that new jerusalem comes down to earth and the lamb and our God dwells with man in the new earth.
The real deal is that the New Covenant, found in Jeremiah 31:31 with cross-references in Hebrews 8:8,13 and 12:24, specifically say the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Anyone trying to claim that for themselves is a thief and robber. Paul doesn't mention it, Peter, James and John don't mention it. Guess who else doesn't mention it? *JESUS* . For people who go on and on endlessly about proper contextual hermeneutics and exposition, that's some serious hypocritical butchery of all relevant texts.
I don’t see how these two things are mutually exclusive. It sounds like the Bible in both. Perhaps instead of standing against your own interpretations, you just trust God that His will is both.
Why not First Century Jewish Eschatology ?
Adam was an Israelite? Noah was an Israelite? Where does it say they are?
Ephesians 2:15-16
Jews and Ge tiles together form Israel
Galatians 2:28-29
Romans 11:17-18
It seems strange that the covenants of covenant theology are not the actual biblical covenants, but other theological categories… 🤔🙏
What verse says there was a covenant of works?
It doesn't specifically say that, that's just a summary.
God told Adam to
1) Be fruitful
2) Multiply
3) Subdue the earth
4) Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good an evil
As long as Adam and Eve, and their descendants, did those things, they would stay with God in the garden of Eden. That is a covenant and it's based on works. The covenant was broken when Adam and Eve disobeyed and did an evil work - eating that fruit.
Two ginormous challenges with covenant theology are not interpreting Scripture literally and believing that the gentile church has replaced Israel. Great, clear, helpful, broad distinction between the two views. Thank you.
"First, the literalist/symbolic argument. As you know (and admit) not everything in the Bible is to be interpreted literally. Even a stalwart dispensationalist like Hal Lindsey admits that “Premillennialists interpret literally and allegorically. The issue is to let the text dictate when to interpret allegorically instead of our theological presuppositions.” To claim that preterists do not interpret the Bible literally is a gross misrepresentation and oversimplification of the sophistication and complexity of biblical hermeneutics. Similar to dispensationalists, we interpret the majority of texts literally and some texts “spiritually” or symbolically because we believe, following solid hermeneutical principles, that at times the Bible demands, for the lack of a better description, a “spiritual interpretation.” I could cite numerous examples from dispensational writers to support this easily provable and accepted claim.
Jesus calls His body a temple (John 2:21). His opponents understood Him literally (Matt. 26:61). We’re not sure what His disciples thought. To be “born again” refers to a spiritual rebirth (John 3:3), not a re-entry into the womb, something Nicodemus, “a teacher in Israel,” should have understood (3:10)." Gary Demar
Second, covenant theology holders do not believe that the church replaced Israel, but believe that the Gentiles were grafted into the true Israel.
They believe Gentiles were GRAFTED IN, no replacement: AT THE CROSS Jesus' blood brought them together forever into ONE BODY:
- "tearing down the dividing wall of enmity between the two"
- "creating ONE NEW MAN betwixt the TWO"
- "there is NOW, therefore, NO difference between Jew and Greek"
@@ServantOfJesusChrist777 Spiritually I agree at a cursory level, we have been grafted in. However, God has stated that His plan was to cause the Jewish people to be jealous as we gentiles are grafted in, and ultimately bring them back, meaning there are still two distinct categories of sheep in the fold. God has never communicated that the Church and the nation of Israel are synonymous or merged in any way. A sample few of the verses that would have to be overlooked or changed in meaning to support a merge the Church body with the nation of Israel include Deuteronomy 14:2, 26:17-19; 1 Kings 10:9; Psalm 135:4; Psalm 105:8-15; Hebrews 8:8-13; Romans 10, 11:1-32.
@brians.mcdowell1288 ok, I will look at these scriptures you gave me. In the meantime, here is where Paul says that we are NOW "no longer FOREIGNERS" and are now part of the "Commonwealth of ISRAEL" vs 12 & 19 below.
Ephesians 2:12-16, 18-22 KJV
[12] that at THAT time ye were without Christ, being ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] but NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes WERE far off are made NIGH by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made us BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; [15] having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN, so making peace; [16] and that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] NOW therefore YE ARE are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, AND OF THE HOUSEHOLD of God; [20] and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Well, and of course, I disagree because I believe the 490 year probation for the NATION of Israel, (i.e. for the people, the Jews) to be SEPARATE, their probation period to recognize Jesus as God and stop sinning (which sinning means not to recognize Jesus as God and Messiah) (the Daniel 9, 7 x 70 years) ended at the stoning of Steven.
So then, at the Cross, Jesus ended the division of races and created a New Covenant. Either one loves and believes Jesus is LORD and is therefore a "Jew" and also "Israel", Israel meaning the PEOPLE, or they are UNbelievers, i.e. they are LOST SHEEP.
He is "No respecter of persons". Person's, i.e. races.
As Paul said, there is no Synthian, no Barbarian, no male or female, no Jew or Greek (NOT ANYMORE).
Since I don't believe in a pre trib Rapture, I don't either believe the Millennium is just for the Jews. That would be really rude to Gentiles to make us wait 1,000 more years, after we were the first to recognize Jesus. No bueno!
Any Jew that wants to, just like a Gentile, can come to believe Jesus is God whenever they CHOOSE. Jews are not held back, NOT BLINDED from believing SINCE THE CROSS. If that were the case there would not be "Christian Jews" in the world.
Yes, He DID make them jealous. But that doesn't mean they have to WAIT TILL the Millennium to believe!
Blessings upon you brother!
No doubt! While I've always accepted it, reading through the book by Roy Zuck ("Basic Bible Interpretation") has solidified my beliefs. *MARANATHA!*
Adam was given a command, not a covenant. The so-called covenants of works and grace are theological, not biblical. Flawed hermeneutic...in my humble, dispensational opinion. Love my covenant brothers. Let us keep laboring for the unity of the faith.
I mean pastors and teachers who hold the Covenant theology...
There was no covenant of works made with Adam. Bad theology.😢
As a dispensation believer, he is only partially correct. The works statement he made tainted his whole argument.
Thank you for this explanation. Well done
One has an insane misunderstanding of God, His purposes and the meaning of 'Israel'
At least one is wrong.
Why not go to the letters of Paul?
Christ gave the right Gospel/Theologie to His slave Paul.
The right theologie is the saving Gospel.
You can find it in 1Cor.15 verses 1 to 8.
Interestingly, enough, Paul, being a Jew was the apostle to the gentiles
Covenant Theology....approaching Scripture literally EXCEPT the prophetic books....then they change to a Preterist view of things and view Daniel and Revelation more allegorical. Hmmmm???
Some believe in a mixture of both.
The major mistake concerning dispensationalism was made by the protestant reformers is that they have formulated two plans of salvation.
One for the jews and another for the gentiles. Acts 2:38 the teach is the jewish plan of salvation and Romans 10:10 for the gentiles.
Their major error is revealed in that all of Pauls' letters begin with the greeting,"..to the saints of..". Paul would hardly seek to bring a new plan of salvation, other that Acts 2:38, to already saved believers.
Furthermore we have Paul lead the disciples, in Acts ch.19, to salvation following Acts 2:38.
Lastly, Paul said himself," There are neither jew nor gentile, bond nor free,male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus"(Gal.3:28).
"jews" are the synagogue of Satan. Please read the Bible! too much Paul, not enough Messiah.
What is Copernicus cosmology?
"FROM EVOLUTIONIST TO CREATIONIST "BY/PASTOR PROF WALTER VEITH POWERFUL POWERFUL WATCH TRUTH ALWAYS WINS TRUE AMAZING STORY FROM SOUTH AFRICA ENJOY UNMISSABLE WATCH ❤GOD IS LOVE FOREVER GOD SEES EVERYTHING KNOWS EVERYTHING ❤
Covenant theology is the right one. But it must be pointed out that some great pastors like Spurgeon were and are Premillennialst believers...
I think I am a discovenant theologian.
Lol that’s how I’m starting to feel
We fell because of Eve, not because of Adam, and original sin or rather our fallen nature is inherited through the maternal line. That's why it matters that Jesus was born of a mortal woman and therefore his Earthly body was of our fallen nature. If it were through Adam, his living a sinless life would mean nothing because he would not have inherited that corruption and he would not have been able to pay the wages of sin for others. The whole thing does not work If you put it on Adam.
Totally wrong.
Nice work grabbing the term covenant theology before the other group got it first😂
But seriously, the Gospel is the most important thing, but not the only thing. Discernment of God's several (6 mainly) covenants will lead to more agreement with the dispensationalists than the replacement...er i mean covenant theologians.
This is not an accurate presentation of dispensationalism.
Why was it not accurate?
“ I’m a leaky dispensationalist.” John MacArthur
Some of the many troubles with Dispensationalism are: 1)Gods actions are simply reactions to what the people of Israel do. This is bunk. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He has predestined all things. Either you believe what the Bible says or not. You can’t pick and choose which parts you want to believe and apply those to an agenda or pre-conceived idea one may have. 2) It says that the death and resurrection of Jesus was not enough or that it wasn’t for everyone. This is a lie from the pit. 3) It divides believers and creates confusion. God is not the author of confusion or division within the body. 4) It takes our eyes off of what is really happening and has us focused on what Israel is doing. Meanwhile, Satan has infiltrated the governments, churches, and media at the highest levels. We need to be focused on understanding the Word. There are a lot of false teachers and doctrines that have been able to spread because people don’t understand that the Word of God is the daily bread of life. God said his people would perish from lack of knowledge. Don’t be one who perishes under false doctrines like this. Covenant all the way!! ❤ 🍞
Your response is grossly inaccurate about dispensationalism.
@@peoplefirst1855,
I agree with you.
@@peoplefirst1855 may I be permitted to add a grossly to your grossly? And to alter his opinion to that of Covenentalism being "from the pit"?
@Micah-6.8 You make a great argument against the covenant position. Dispensationalists are the ones who take Scripture at face value. We focus on the literal plain interpretation. The Covenant position is only tenable through picking and choosing what Scripture is to be interpreted literally and which is metaphorical. Dispensationalism does not see God as changing or reacting. We believe in His complete sovereignty and the he does not change nor break His promises. We also firmly believe in the sufficient sacrifice of Christ once for all as the ONLY way to God. We don't divide believers. Any division was caused centuries after the Apostle Paul and John clearly stated Israel's place in God's future plans in Romans and Revelation. There is no hint of amillenialism in the Bible. It takes in imposed system of interpretation to reach that conclusion. I pray you do better research before you attack fellow believers who are committed to a consistent hermeneutic.
@@peoplefirst1855 , Very well said, and the best comment of any sort that I've read today, that wasn't anecdotal.
May God Bless you richly my Brother in Christ.
Dr Chuck Missler clears things up perfectly
he is my favorite Bible teacher of all time, but he just regurgitates Darby's dispensationalist theology as did his mentor Chuck Smith, and most of the American evangelical teachers today. Doesn't mean he is wrong, but I believe he is, and he still is my favorite.
An inaccurate description of Dispensationalism. Sorry.
Romans 4:3
King James Version
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
There is nowhere in scripture anyone is saved by works! All from Old Covenant, to the New Covenant is saved by the blood of Jesus Christ! The Old Covenant was a shadow pointing to Christ Gal 3:24,25. The New Covenant is a fulfillment of that prophecy Luke 24:44.
This seems rather biased, although that might come from the editing!
The New Testament interprets the old and you'll see clearly that Steven in Acts 7 callswondering Israel the "church" in the wilderness . And also this : "And many will come from the east and the west and sit at the table with Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ... " again this sheds light on the one people of God
Daniels 7-70s talks about two different times. Dispensations.
Agreed. His description of dispensationalism was not accurate. There is more than one "church" in scripture. The "church in the wilderness" is one, as you correctly pointed out. That' why us dispensationalists don't call anything just "the church". That would be confusing. We would say "the church, which is His body".
But more specifically, to be part of God's chosen you had to become a member of Israel in the past, and a member of the "one new man" today.
The music impedes my understanding.
Dispensation is sound doctrine
Who cares? John 3:16-17 is all you need to know to lead a person to Jesus. The Holy Spirit will take from there.
Not really. Galatians 3:3 "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"
Even if you start with the correct gospel, you can be pulled away and try to justify yourself by your works.
God made a New Covenant with the house of Israel into which 11 Israelites, having been discipled by God's genuine Son, entered. When Jesus of Nazareth (while still on the cross) drank the fruit of the vine, that New Covenant became active. Since Jesus had never sinned, all the blessing of the law of Moses became His inheritance- and the Treasury of New Covenant Israel. Since then, the gospel has been believed by gentiles who have been adopted into the house of Israel.
Well said.
Thank you for this explanation.
Reread Romans 11.
Unfortunately, Brian , the traditional dispensational view is still the majority view in American evangelism by far. There are even more sinister views rising centered on an unbiblical view of God's wrath. Progressive dispensationalism, despite Dallas Theological Seminary's best efforts to rescue a failed system, is still unbiblical and, fortunately unheard of by most Christians. Do a tour of churches throughout the country and attennd their adult Sunday school and listen to their eschatological sermons, and you'll hear the echoes of the nonsense of Darby and Scofield.
very good
Ask the kind gentle man to explain the vicarious law obedience to which Jesus was obligated by his Covenant Theology. They say that by the works of the law Jesus earned our righteousness and eternal life. Then read Romans 3:20-22. Therefore by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight...But now the righteousness without the law is manifested...Evev the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ..
So why the attacks
Com’on all theological smarties, read Romans 11. Paul flatlines all this theological palaver! For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? STOP THE NONSENSE AND STRIVE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! Romans 8:9.
Fulness of times(s). Look it up
The following quote supports covenant theology which says God has only one people.
"Our religion is the religion of Abraham before he was circumcised." [Eusebius]
Simplistic? Maybe.
However, many Bible believers, in just simply studying God’s Word, end up with strands of what some call covenant theology and strands of what some call dispensational theology to have a simple biblical theology!
Blood and water easily mix also. But that blood might have hurt somebody a little bit. What is the Covenant cost to the Gospel? What have they added? What have they altered? How much came from the Roman Catholic law righteousness? Go ahead you can see that the fruit is good to eat. So take just one eentzy weentzy tiny little bite.
the more and more I study the two, I swear they are the same thing with different names.
They could not be more difficult
Keep studying, I suppose
While the explanation is pretty fair, I see NO way to argue against dispensationalism. When we come to any given text, we're to find out, not just who God is speaking TO, but who God is speaking ABOUT. In o/words, the historical-grammatical approach is not only the most LOGICAL, but I don't think it can be argued against, convincingly.
Watch while reading the transcript. He drops the last word of every sentence.
There is a huge difference from saying the bible (the word of God) is the final authority and the sole authority. Pompous people like this stuffed shirt twist the gospel message into a works based life in which somebody never knows whether he has eternal assurance of salvation.