Only "packing" I do is 2-3 packs since I basically can get the same amount of extra air by inspirering harder, but 2-3 pacs is easier (uses less energy).
Great video after our conversation :) I agree with everything you said, but I still think schools should include teaching packing in the master level, and that you should start training it safely and gradually after passing 40 meters. It's better freedivers learn it properly than to see videos in the internet of how to do it. And again, as you said, packing is not meant to compensate for imperfections of other techniques, but it is a natural growth of freedivers and is better to start training it safely dry and in relatively shallow depths. I also found that working on packing dry helps improving lungs flexibility, and helps build bigger lungs that increases TLC, which is a process that takes months if not years.
Might be an expression "master level" is a bit confusing for you :-) As you are perfectly aware, "master level" (or level 3 or AIDA4 or wave 3) means that someone within 7-10 days finishes level 1-2. Does it sound like an "experience athlete" for you? Choose any sport and tell me where a person can reach "master level" within a couple weeks. It doesn't exist. Even if you are an absolute prodigy. "After passing 40 meters" you don't need to use packing, neither to avoid hypoxia nor for equalization. If you are hypoxic at 45 without packing or your mouthfil is over....well....you have a bigger problem than how to learn packing Agree, packing can and should be view as a "natural growth". For example for someone who is planning to increase the depth after 60 meters. This athlete can spend a few months learning and practicing how to do 2-3 packs on his journey to 65 meters. But what is the purpose of packing "after 40"? To learn how to do 2-3 packs before you reach 60-70? Sure, it's better to learn properly (I guess you mean from experienced Freediver) rather than from YT video. Absolutely agree. If I decide that I need learn some highly specific technique (such as packing) I would ask private online/offline session with an expert. Current technology (like a ZOOM) makes it extremely easy regardless of where do you live. But include it in a course which someone can start with one week experience is a bit of an overstretch for me :-) But not all Master instructors or Instructor Trainers share some views. I don't mind. As a result after a few weeks of experience freedivers get serious injuries (LS) or hypoxic event
I think it would make sense to do some kind of specialty (2-3 days long) with a prerequisite of, let's say, Master Freediver (or analogy). Or might be something similar. Something outside the "recreational" level (which covers depth up to 40 meters by the way).
Hi. Air is going to all parts of your lungs even without stretching. Though upper and lower part recieved slightly differen amount (perfusion) due to the gravity
This was the point. Just to make sure that you mastered other aspects of the breath hold, such as relaxation breathing, relaxation before contractions start, relaxation after contraction starts, mind control, CO2 tolerance, improve your thoracic flexibility, diaphragm flexibility etc. So many things to work on
Unless you are crazy flexible already, even normal stretching will be beneficial for the thoraxic flexibility. And we don't stretch "lungs", we stretch muscles and connective tissues :)
I don't pack, only started freediving 1 year ago... but in the video you are talking like everyone that is not well experienced is an idiot when he uses packing and you are talking like this is the absolute truth.... I am not so sure about that. I like to compare this situation with BJJ training ...for competitiom you can say that kneebars are only allowed from brown belt level. Therefore many schools will not teach this technique to lower belts. At one point the white belt becomes, blue belt, then purple ...and after years he becomes brown belt. Years of training where he never really practiced kneebars. Now he goes to competition and although he is a brown belt, he has no idea what to do if he gets into this situation where he can attack or has to defend a kneebar. I know, this was kind of an excursion but what I want to say: in my understanding practicing packing can make sense if you are doing it slowly and controlled in a sensible manner ...getting to know your body, getting your body used to it and make yourself understand it. Also it is probably better to start doing it on land than in the water ...at least I do want to avoid a black out under water under all circumstances. Having a blackout and falling into the bed at home or the soft grass floor isn't too bad when compared to possible drowning. Of course if you do not regularly train, then there might be no use of making a habit out of packing, as you will make no progress adaptation and understanding.
In the beginning relaxation will get you much better results than packing. Packing will most likely make it more difficult to relax. There is value to learning the basics first. I am at 49.2 m, and feel that I have much air to go deeper. What made the difference was relaxation and going more slow. It is a little disturbing to see someone packing a lot and having difficulties reaching 30-40 meters.
Hi Henzo! Thank you for your interesting comment! I like your analogy with BJJ, let's use it. As you know even from white to blue belt it will take a regular practitioner a few years. However, a beginner Freediver can start a Master course (or level 3 or AIDA4) only after 1-2 weeks of practicing Freediver. How we can compare? What is a competition in BJJ? It's a time when an athlete is trying his/her best to win. But as you know, a lot of Freedivers trying their best (new PBs) on a regular training session. So, in BJJ athlete is allowed to do leg lock-in comp after 4-5 years of regular practice and you want to allow a freediver to use a risky technique (packing) after a few weeks? Months? Even more important - without actual reason to do it! A white belt can submit a blue belt with a leg lock while regular rolling, so, it makes sense to know this technique. It also make sense to know it to defend against someone who is leg-locking you. But for a beginner freediver (not experienced freediver) packing has no implication, but is still potentially dangerous! Recently I've heard from a freediver who is diving less than 40 meters that he damaged his lungs during dry packing. But what is a reason for him was to practice it in the first place??? To dive to 40? 45? 50? I agree it's better to start practice slowly and in a controlled manner. And probably dry. Let's say a freediver on his depth training vacation reaches 60 meters without packing. And thinking on the next trip (in a few months) to start doing 2-3 packs before a dive to reach 65 meters. Ok, he has a few months to learn how to do it slowly and in a controlled manner. But what is a reason to pack if you diving to 35-50?
Learn how to do chest/lung stretching for Freediving HERE ua-cam.com/video/ndjojKEwEJM/v-deo.html
Only "packing" I do is 2-3 packs since I basically can get the same amount of extra air by inspirering harder, but 2-3 pacs is easier (uses less energy).
This approach makes sense!
Great video after our conversation :)
I agree with everything you said, but I still think schools should include teaching packing in the master level, and that you should start training it safely and gradually after passing 40 meters. It's better freedivers learn it properly than to see videos in the internet of how to do it.
And again, as you said, packing is not meant to compensate for imperfections of other techniques, but it is a natural growth of freedivers and is better to start training it safely dry and in relatively shallow depths.
I also found that working on packing dry helps improving lungs flexibility, and helps build bigger lungs that increases TLC, which is a process that takes months if not years.
Might be an expression "master level" is a bit confusing for you :-) As you are perfectly aware, "master level" (or level 3 or AIDA4 or wave 3) means that someone within 7-10 days finishes level 1-2. Does it sound like an "experience athlete" for you? Choose any sport and tell me where a person can reach "master level" within a couple weeks. It doesn't exist. Even if you are an absolute prodigy.
"After passing 40 meters" you don't need to use packing, neither to avoid hypoxia nor for equalization. If you are hypoxic at 45 without packing or your mouthfil is over....well....you have a bigger problem than how to learn packing
Agree, packing can and should be view as a "natural growth". For example for someone who is planning to increase the depth after 60 meters. This athlete can spend a few months learning and practicing how to do 2-3 packs on his journey to 65 meters. But what is the purpose of packing "after 40"? To learn how to do 2-3 packs before you reach 60-70?
Sure, it's better to learn properly (I guess you mean from experienced Freediver) rather than from YT video. Absolutely agree. If I decide that I need learn some highly specific technique (such as packing) I would ask private online/offline session with an expert. Current technology (like a ZOOM) makes it extremely easy regardless of where do you live.
But include it in a course which someone can start with one week experience is a bit of an overstretch for me :-) But not all Master instructors or Instructor Trainers share some views. I don't mind. As a result after a few weeks of experience freedivers get serious injuries (LS) or hypoxic event
I think it would make sense to do some kind of specialty (2-3 days long) with a prerequisite of, let's say, Master Freediver (or analogy). Or might be something similar. Something outside the "recreational" level (which covers depth up to 40 meters by the way).
I agree. Just reached 49.2m without packing
Nice result!👍
I feel that when stretching after packing, the air reaches far-away “corners” of lungs. No?
Hi. Air is going to all parts of your lungs even without stretching. Though upper and lower part recieved slightly differen amount (perfusion) due to the gravity
I am preparing for a competinion in STA. How the hell i will learn it if i wont start at some point?
This was the point. Just to make sure that you mastered other aspects of the breath hold, such as relaxation breathing, relaxation before contractions start, relaxation after contraction starts, mind control, CO2 tolerance, improve your thoracic flexibility, diaphragm flexibility etc. So many things to work on
I think that benefit of streaching after packing is the more flexibility for lungs and your chest .
Unless you are crazy flexible already, even normal stretching will be beneficial for the thoraxic flexibility. And we don't stretch "lungs", we stretch muscles and connective tissues :)
I don't pack, only started freediving 1 year ago... but in the video you are talking like everyone that is not well experienced is an idiot when he uses packing and you are talking like this is the absolute truth.... I am not so sure about that.
I like to compare this situation with BJJ training ...for competitiom you can say that kneebars are only allowed from brown belt level. Therefore many schools will not teach this technique to lower belts. At one point the white belt becomes, blue belt, then purple ...and after years he becomes brown belt. Years of training where he never really practiced kneebars. Now he goes to competition and although he is a brown belt, he has no idea what to do if he gets into this situation where he can attack or has to defend a kneebar.
I know, this was kind of an excursion but what I want to say: in my understanding practicing packing can make sense if you are doing it slowly and controlled in a sensible manner ...getting to know your body, getting your body used to it and make yourself understand it. Also it is probably better to start doing it on land than in the water ...at least I do want to avoid a black out under water under all circumstances. Having a blackout and falling into the bed at home or the soft grass floor isn't too bad when compared to possible drowning.
Of course if you do not regularly train, then there might be no use of making a habit out of packing, as you will make no progress adaptation and understanding.
In the beginning relaxation will get you much better results than packing. Packing will most likely make it more difficult to relax.
There is value to learning the basics first. I am at 49.2 m, and feel that I have much air to go deeper. What made the difference was relaxation and going more slow.
It is a little disturbing to see someone packing a lot and having difficulties reaching 30-40 meters.
Hi Henzo! Thank you for your interesting comment!
I like your analogy with BJJ, let's use it.
As you know even from white to blue belt it will take a regular practitioner a few years. However, a beginner Freediver can start a Master course (or level 3 or AIDA4) only after 1-2 weeks of practicing Freediver. How we can compare?
What is a competition in BJJ? It's a time when an athlete is trying his/her best to win. But as you know, a lot of Freedivers trying their best (new PBs) on a regular training session.
So, in BJJ athlete is allowed to do leg lock-in comp after 4-5 years of regular practice and you want to allow a freediver to use a risky technique (packing) after a few weeks? Months? Even more important - without actual reason to do it!
A white belt can submit a blue belt with a leg lock while regular rolling, so, it makes sense to know this technique. It also make sense to know it to defend against someone who is leg-locking you. But for a beginner freediver (not experienced freediver) packing has no implication, but is still potentially dangerous! Recently I've heard from a freediver who is diving less than 40 meters that he damaged his lungs during dry packing. But what is a reason for him was to practice it in the first place??? To dive to 40? 45? 50?
I agree it's better to start practice slowly and in a controlled manner. And probably dry.
Let's say a freediver on his depth training vacation reaches 60 meters without packing. And thinking on the next trip (in a few months) to start doing 2-3 packs before a dive to reach 65 meters. Ok, he has a few months to learn how to do it slowly and in a controlled manner.
But what is a reason to pack if you diving to 35-50?
@@AS-gx4qg agrees. It is common sense in other sports - fundamentals first. Long-term adaptation.