Writing for Strings - Top Tips Part 1
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- Опубліковано 13 кві 2023
- FREE DOWNLOAD: Get the audio stems, a MIDI file, the Logic Project, and a pdf summarising Guy's approach. Click here: thinkspaceeducation.com/signu...
How do you write an effective string arrangement straight into your DAW? Its something most composers have wrestled with at one time or another. Today composer Guy Michelmore shows you his approach and gives you the first in a series of Top Tips on String Writing. Today he is working in Logic Pro X 10.7 but this approach would work in any DAW.
Check out the Soaring Strings library from Musical Sampling
musicalsampling.com/soaring-s...
You cannot believe how reassuring this video has been. I thought I was the only one who spent interminable hours tweaking and changing and redoing pieces until eventually I have to leave them for a while as I exhaust my ideas. But, to see someone, such as yourself, doing the same, has given me 'permission' to keep on doing what I do. Thank you :)
I've exactly the same feeling!
This is how it is for me. It is easier on paper but it is always like some musical version fo Sudoku. I have done a paper version which came out differently - they're recording it next week with a live orchestra
@@ThinkSpaceEducation That will be a lot of fun/stress (Highlight as applicable) Good luck with that. :)
Me too.
@Guy Michelmore see you in Prague! I agree on the puzzle solving. Sometimes my head really hurts, I know what I want but can't find it. Sometimes I'll take a break and the answer reveals itself when I come back or even while on the break....
just want to say thank you, out of 90 % of online tutorials, the instructors never have fluffed lines, bum notes, discordant entries, and you showed the entire process warts and all, it makes me feel human, and to see how you solve those problems, is far better than a slick super polished" how amazing am I as a UA-camr !" type of videos. I have been at an impasse on a string arrangement for weeks, frustrating myself, then you had the same problem and it suddenly made sense, thank you, and keep it up.
Thankyou- ok interestingly i put this into Dorico and it changed quite a lot. Orchestra recording it next week! As part of our student live orchestral session.
Seems more real doesn't it. I'm a decorator in my 'normal" job and because TV can make it look like you can decorate a room in one hour people think that's how long it takes.
But back to your comment, most of my great ideas in music have been born out of a mistake trying to get some where else when writing something.
14:20 suddenly having no sound makes me appreciate your gestures much more. Love you man, looking forward to part 2
I'm so relieved to see grot and dust all over your equipment Guy, unlike some of those channels with antiseptic clinical looking setups that would never appear in real life. It's like the comfort of the 'used future' in Star Wars. 😊
For us non-writers on bits of paper, this was invaluable and validating. This approach is my new 'go to', thanks.
Great stuff! Can’t wait for part two
Interesting video, I love to watch you composing. It's always challenging to write a string arrangement. I can't wait for part two!
Always a good way to start the weekend with a video from Guy. Cheers and have a great W/E 😎
Absolutely lovely video. Thank you for this. I see how much practice I need. I like the way you are showing this process, thank you.
Most excellent tutorial, and workflow. Thank you for this, and looking forward to the next!
this channel is gold!! thank you for all the amazing tips
Brilliant as usual..didn’t know about the markers in Logic. very useful. thank you Guy🌹
Thanks Guy for the inspiration to continue to not give up.
You were absolutely correct when you were saying people were going to be wondering why you didn't just save a bunch of time and work it out in Dorico, so I am glad you acknowledged this at the end of the video! However, what I would love to see is a video demonstrating the back and forth between Dorico and the DAW for refinement.
Thank you Mr. Michelmore, very useful and inspiring teaching. 🤗
Thank you so much for sharing your process so generously and graciously,I am encouraged and inspired! And that was a beautiful piece of work.
Today is gonna be a great day!!! Thank you Guy!
Love this man. Watching your youtube changed my composition. Love from 🇳🇬 ❤❤❤
Thanks so much for sharing your workflow!!! 👌🏼 I've been thinking I'm the only one who's recording and working out particular parts over and over again 😅 really appreciate you share what didn't work as well!
Hey Guy, I just sub'd and did so for one reason... you're a blast to watch! Actually for more than one reason - I also find a actually learn good and useful stuff when I do give you a listen. Thanks for keeping it fun and interesting. Wish you all the best. I'm sure my music will and writing will be all the better for it. Stay healthy and musical my friend.
Great video! The piece you came up with reminded me of Ralphn Vaughn Williams' "Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis", one of my favorite pieces. Thanks for the continuing inspiration, Guy!
Thank you Guy for the Mod Wheel Cam. Never again shall I ever feel the slightest twinge of guilt about having a keyboard with slightly dusty nooks and crannies. P.S. Superb video, as always.
Shed in the garden - dust and mud come as part of the package!
This was great. Looking forward to part 2, and hopefully I will have my new S88 MkII by then so I can try it myself :)
Thanks Guy! As it happens I'm in the middle of programming some similarly big strings for a composition of my own and this has inspired me out of a minor rut - my takeaways are to play lines in rather than agonise over the piano roll, and also to turn an ensemble patch (all I have in the library I'm using) into sections by duplicating the instrument and watching the range of each section - I can feel hours of further tinkering ahead!
Go for it! Good luck
Great stuff Guy. Thank you
Love this! There is just something about strings in music!
To add to deserved appreciation dump for this channel. You’ve inspired me so much since I found you. I’m most likely going to sign up to your course. I was wondering if you’d ever considered diving in to the Reason stand-alone plug-in. Reason gets a lot of stick in forums and it’s quite often justified due to work flow issues and being a little slow off the mark among competitors. But one thing they often get a lot of praise for is their instruments/synths. So I’d love to see you do some hybrid stuff with their stuff. Been using Reason for so long that the thought of relearning a new DAW fills me with dread although I do think in the long run it probably makes sense
This is a very nice approach. Start w/ a full string ensemble for the main idea and then evacuate each string section to it's own part..
First a huge thank yous, and THEN, just a tiny personal thing about how I very much liked the first take (with the G instead of F). I know the sound came from all one track but it sounded more coherent, together if you will. Perhaps a little bit too much tweaking this time around. But definitely appreciate your kind hearted effort to reach out and teach/educate! And here’s a HUGE thank yous one more time😊 Michael
Studio One with it's chord track detection is clutch for keeping the chord strtudcture clear during the creating stage....specially with strings
Wonderful, wonderful video :)
As usual... Fantastic! 🙂
Hey... BTW... In Logic Pro, a great way to combine 2 or more regions is to highlight the desired regions, and hit the "J" (join) key. Much easier (and faster) than the glue tool 😊.
Thank you for sharing all of your expertise with us neophytes... It's MUCH appreciated 🙂.
K
That click track reminds me of high blood pressure! Great video, lots of stuff to take on board!
Thank you Guy ...
Plz make some more videos like this so we minos can learn something. May be on some percussion stuff.
I found a good quick'n'dirty way of getting something basic, from a single melody line feeding the 4 string sections. The plugins had keys outside the instrument range to change the string playing styles, so just playing a single melody line into all sections would cause some to change. I used another plugin before each section to limit the notes to the specific instrument range, thus blocking the style keys. I used transposition and 'snap to key' plugins to get each section to harmonise. Once I'd got something I liked from the single melody line, I set it to record the midi output of the 4 sections, then played that back into the 4 sections and edited that midi to suit, so it wasn't just a plain harmonised melody. I like that I can get from a single line melody to a 4 section sound, change keys and registers, and also then move off the plain harmonised sound to suit. I can also use track envelopes to defeat some of the plugins for some of the time, for atonal or non-harmonised parts. The main thing was just to get quickly from a single melody (while I could remember it!) to a 4 section harmonised sound, but still have options to mess with it, when that sound now suggests other ways, and some, especially the atonal, I'd have never have thought of.
Thank You!!!
Great instructional video, as always, but what the heck is up with the audio disappearing in some of the cuts... the closeups, in particular?
Is it necessary to master an orchestral tracks to a specific integrated LUFS value or not? What should we aim for? Btw. great content really helped me way more than any other on the web! Cheers!
Hi Guy, great video thanks for these lessons they really are helpful. Quick question, do you use a sustain pedal with ensemble patches?
Oh, brilliance as ever Guy! - I hope the fortress is holding down steadfast for you; got my hands on my first Albion too...
Brilliant stuff to imporve my strings, many thanks!!!! Usally it's a bottomless pit to get my strings at lest something like perfect. 🙈🙉 😅
Nice!
hey Guy,been a long time since you've posted a video here,great to see you back,i use studio one,ther you can drag your chords to the chord track and studio one puts the chord names automatically,you can even drag audio chords to thaa track and S1 will recognise them
great DAW,there's also scaler (vst) that recognises chords,scales,modulations,etc,cheers m8
Yes, Studio One makes this very easy and inviting to use. Great DAW!
@@petersvan7880 it certainly is Peter,bought the ultimate orchestral catalogue,musio from cinesamples,its the last day for a lifetime license,and its for all the instrument,already existing and future ones,what a great deal,tought you had to know before it was gone,cheers m8
Wow, I've never been this early to a video. I gotta think of a joke. Uhh... A composer walks into a bar and the bartender says: You look like a trebled man!
That one is quite good, a dad joke, granted, but witty
Permission to use? 😅
@@saruphim2548 Absolutely!
@@Bucking_Fastard 😄
Great one! I've got another one: How can you tell if a singer's at your door? They can't find the key, and they never know when to come in. 😉
Absolutely lovely video. Is there right channel on the left?
Hey Guy, What are your Honest thoughts on Easwests new Fantasy Strings LIbrary and the fact that they are doing a completely new and entire library just for fantasy?
Waiting for the part 2.
Will there be a sheet version of this? I would love to play that with my group!!
Hi, Audio Drops out at 24:44 back in at 25:09
Damn sorry about that
I like that bit, don’t change please😂
I reckon we can work out 99% of what you are saying anyway!
📌Hi Guy ! As someone who's new to orchestration, I've been trying to approach it in this way: 1) I create a guide track with a mix of strings and piano that gives me the melodic line. 2) I try to recreate the different instruments that make up an orchestra on separate tracks (first violins, seconds, violas, basses, harp, etc.). Instead of using VSTs, I'm recording audio sounds from my Tyros3.QUESTION 1: Is it always better to use a metronome, or should I do what I often do and skip it so that it doesn't sound too "stiff"?❓QUESTION 2: What do you think is the best way to handle dynamics/expression while recording?❓(expression pedal, volume knob, or something else❓)👍
In some (ad) parts voice is disabled ))
Great Video, as always. But, for this exposed video I would have chosen strings with less brightness and different vibrato.
I like the Soaring Strings very much, especially for layering. For this example, without eq, I find them a bit intrusive over time.
Anyway, your way to write for strings is very close to my approach.
Sounded nice - what is your opinion on SOARING STRINGS (after using it)?
I may have to recreate that with Spitfire Appassionata and compare the sound.
Rather than paper, I find it easiest to work out the parts in a score editor. Or truthfully, I usually work them out in my head first, then try it in a score editor to refine it. Normally, that’s Notion on iPad when I’m on the go. Then I print the score at home and play the parts into Pro Tools or Logic.
how about a video for those of us who write on “paper” like Finale and then import to daw. How is the best way to add expression in those cases??? Thanks for the amazing videos.
Great video. When you start adding the middle voices I think part of the struggle is trying to do it all in a DAW. Pencil and music paper would make it so much easier to work it all out, no?
thanks, Guy, but a weird thing... parts of this video had no sound for me. Is it just my system? I think it was the parts where you did a "sales pitch" on the courses.
Same here. And yes, it seemed to happen only on the inserted 'sales pitch' course videos.
Same for me. But a great video none the least. Cheers Dave
@@DaveDickens totally agree... Guy's videos are always extremely educational as well as fun
Over a year ago when I first started watching/learning from you I'd say out loud "How does he work so fast?" 🎼
A year later (and lots of training in Cubase, etc) I'm like "Ok bro pick up the pace a little here, yeah?"🕯
Forgive me for how I say this: Thank you for helping me learn to work faster than this video! 💪
PS - really appreciate the little note/lesson on extraneous controller data.
I hope your garden is growing so very well!
I have a question. If i wanted to write for example a hard 32th Notes and i can’t play it by midi controler cause its too many notes and are very fast what should i do then?
If you select notes on a track right click and choose force legato is that the same as you drag notes by hand? Or is there any advantage making the notes go further… if you understand 😇
Markers for chords is an excellent tip!
You can use the chord track but that does starts transposing things so I just prefer the makers - simple and effective
@@ThinkSpaceEducation I use chord markers when I do sessions in Reaper… it beats having to look at the midi-roll and trying to figure out what chord I played - lol
How do you go about adding the other families (winds, brass, perc) ?
My question is, when you're choosing to write for strings and you only have "String libraries" at your disposal do you normally stick to one String library or do you mix libraries together and if so is there a limit to mixing libraries in one song before it starts to sound weird?
14:19 This might be just me, but it's silent for like ten seconds there...
Hi teacher, ONE question, what WOODWINDS library is BEST?Berlín kontakt legacy woodw, Berlín sine revive vs vsl synchron woodw? Please, thanks
After this you know what the classical composers (e. g. "Les Boreades", Rameau, cf. Musescore...) where able to do. Thanks a lot, Guy!
I know - we work in Dorico and they sit there with pencil and paper and not even a piano for reference. Impressive
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Almost. I work in Musescore. 🙂
The Avengers 😂 I see you have the Clarett+ I’ve just been sent the Clarett+ 8pre from the nice folk at Focusrite, haven’t put it through it’s paces yet but will do soon. Good work Guy 👍🏾
Good!
I think it may be your Lav. mic or whatever is capturing your voice that keeps cutting out. None of the music cuts out, just a few spoken bits where the sound cuts out.
As always, great teaching and demonstration! Thanks, Guy! Have you stopped using Cubase? Moreover, did you switch from Windows to Mac? If so, I'd definitely like to know why so I can keep up with the latest trends for orchestral composing. I realize that any DAW will work, but obviously there was some kind of motivation to switch to Logic? I noticed 11 days ago in your video, "Explore and Score : The New Forest" you were using Cubase. What considerations do you make to use Logic over Cubase or Cubase over Logic? Do you still use both?
I mic it up between Cubase and logic on an m1 Apple studio
Guy what string library would you recommend for pop music? What's the best in your opinion?
Is there the part 2?
Hi Guy. I think my problems started when I took your advice about having Biscuits to help when writing.. I'm now bigger and can't get out my studio 🙂 But seriously my intention before seeing this"Writing for Strings". was to ask if you could show how you would achieve an orchestral string run like 'Barry White's ' Love unlimited orchestra.
Your metronome really cuts through, is that on the DAW you're using?
I use Ableton and the metronome tones are horrible and really jarh on me but the one you are using does a brilliant job because it cuts through and doesn't disturb me in the process.
The legato trick. That's how it's done!
Hi Guy, any thinking around why you put the top 8ve line on Vln II instead of swapping and putting on Vln I? My internal bias/habit brain works like a Socrates syllogism: Higher notes = harder/more important. First violins play harder/important stuff. Therefore, first violins play the highest parts. I know it’s silly to bake in ‘rules’ like this but just wondered if there was another pragmatic/aesthetic reason
You can go either way. The higher the note the thinner the sound so if you want the octaves balanced then go for Vln1 on the top octave. As these two samples were identical it didnt actually make any difference but if you wanted a stronger lower octave either do it with Vln2 on the top octave or even divisi Vln2
As you rightly demonstrated, writing the inner lines, especially viola lines is the most tricky part in writing a string arrangement like this and I struggle with this aspect a lot. Is it ok if the Violins 2s go above the Violins 1s sometimes? Could you demonstrate how to strike a good balance between short notes and legato notes on the different string instruments in a future video? Thanks a ton for this video!
Once you learn the rules you can break them for effect. Study some books on orchestration.
@@daquetreed5522yes, the rules are more like pirate code. They’re more like guidelines 😂
@@paulmayer8654 exactly!!!!! Lol
1:50 Uncharted music is incoming. Btw great video sir.
You're using the mod wheel to control your CCs. In a lot of other videos I've seen people saying that you absolutly need a slider (better a pair of sliders for expression and volume) for that, and it sounded to me not like a recommendation but a well agreed fact among composers for classical instruments on a DAW. If I remember right I've seen you also using an external midi controler with sliders. How come the change?
I use the modwheel mostly but have it mapped to a slider as well and normally end up editing it afterwards anyway
Oh, and would would be willing to review the new fantasy strings library for us from eastwest and let us know what you think? Thanks Guy! you're the best brother.
Just got them so it’s in the pipeline
@@ThinkSpaceEducation ❤❤❤❤❤
Hey Guy, some of the cutaways have no audio! :-)
Conversely. If the original Ensemble piece is close to what you are looking for. Is it not OK to just add the 'Ornamentation' on separate channels for the individual instruments and keep the Ensemble piece as the bones of the whole work?
I use ensemble in final mixes all the time but really if you want something like this to sound good? Do it line by line
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Thank you for that and all your videos. Keep em coming. They are inspirational :)
Why not just use the ensemble patch if everything is using the same articulations?
Organized & coherent? What is this witchcraft! 🤣
Music that stays within a certain tonality and/or rythmic dynamic has a sentance like structure that makes it sound "coherent" as in you can hear that there is a conciousness behind it, but music that is rythmically chaotic and/or shifts tonality alot rapidly tends to loose the sense of conciousness. "catchyness" comes from coherence. It also has a lot to do with following chord tones. "Meandering" is a technique mainly in classic rock and jazz that is basicaly "noodling" where the guitarist plays in a way that is fairly "random" and it tends to sound incoherent and not catchy, for example during a guitar solo. Not saying it's "good" or "bad", just that there is definatly a difference and you percieve the music differently depending on whats going on. However, Most all around popular music is coherent, while a person that never learns to control themself or to know the difference and meanders constantly usually fails at music. An example of an particularly incoherent band is Slayer and as a result they have a small group of die hard fans that don't care, while way more people don't like them at all. Their guitarist can't do voice leading or follow chord tones to save his life. 😂 Jazz is typically unfavored in general by people except muscians. That said, most jazz is actually very rythmically coherent, it's the tonal complexity that turns people off.
Buongiorno maestro usa per caso Mac Studio m1 ?
Si sens altro! Perché no?’
how about, you selling those midi, this sounds great
Many thanks guy.
Question on soaring strings! How good are they?
DaZa Wang Chung!
Really good so are adventure
Lolol Command J will join ;)
You’re hilarious. When you muted the video I was freaking out
24:40
3:00
I really needed a video on this topic. Thanks for!
With your permission, I made a music for your starling video. I would be honored if you would listen to it and possibly comment if you have time.
Excellent stuff as usual. Has anyone said there's no sound at 14.21 and 24.44? It looks like the breaks where you talk about subscribing or your available courses.
Yes that was my fault!
Hi Guy, can you explain how to turn a chord progression 180°? In this video with the Stargate theme it works somehow but I don't understand the theory. ua-cam.com/video/LUSp-o0Lr7o/v-deo.html
Are you no longer using the Monogram?
Yes absolutely but this wasn’t that kind of vid but monogram is the business
Fellows reading: it's true, I finally got hold of one and it is lovely!
Sounds a bit like the killing scene in platoon...
14:20 😂😂😂
1:38 - been listening to Halo again...
Quality of Kontakt 7 Cinematic Sounds is not as good as with Versions before… same Samples but less natural. Ok can be fixed but needs a lot of postproduction work…
That’s interesting I should try a comparison
@@ThinkSpaceEducation see this sample Libary was made for Kontakt 5x and works good up to Kontakt 6.4 what is in big parts unstable but if you go higher they convert you to a point where there is no point of return. This specialized Libary have its point. But if you need a room, say use as Solo Violine the Bohemian Violine what is I guess the best Violine on the Market for this than you come in trouble to get them with convolution reverb in a harmonic room together. It’s one of the Desasters for VSL libaries. Their Hypothesis is 20 years old of MIR. Total out of time. One of the reasons why excellent composers like Hans Zimmer did come when they did open their recording hall. But his productions now nothing is made there. You will understand me… Make Promo for their harp. I can not beleave that you realy use the Synchron harp. Make yours test… to play this Libary with Kontakt 7 and compare it with Kontakt 5.9… Kontakt 7 just appears like a castrated Libary and this Violines sound like Plastik.