That's a great example of the simple ground fault issues! Beautiful! I recently found a ground issue on a friends 99 Cherokee. It would skip lightly under moderate or more acceleration, and around left turns with moderate speed. Found a no hold down battery, and a battery negative cable to body ground with a 99.99% broken terminal end. There was still the most minimal connection, and the short length was still pushing against the broken terminal, not pulling away. When the no hold down battery would wobble under movement, it would relieve pressure against the broken terminal, and would cause the skipping. I showed it to my friend, and said that was the cause. He looked UNAMUSED!! I repaired the broken terminal, we took it for a test ride, and the problem disappeared! He was no longer UNAMUSED. I added a hold down, and the problem has completely disappeared! These vids you guys produce (the ERIC TWINS, IVAN THE WONDERFUL, YOUR OWN BROTHER MR JAMES DANNER, and (of course) YOURSELF) are so informational, and entertaining. Thank you so much!
Hi Paul, great video. Voltage drop testing is such a fundamental electrical test, and yet is the most under used test in the industry. I am also a college professor, and I push VD testing so heavily on my students, I'm sure they do it in their sleep. Before teaching I was a tech. for 30 years, and I can't count how many times this simple test fixed vehicles that other techs. threw in the towel on. I teach them this method with the test light, and also with a voltmeter. I love your channel, and I use your videos in the classroom.
northpostman well done buddy, they never taught us this voltage drop test in college, all theoretical, no common applications!! scannerdanner is the man!!
That amazes me how someone can connect a ground wire to a non-metallic surface or an isolated metallic surface consciously & not realize what condition they are creating. That high amp current will find a way to ground & if it finds a low amp ground circuit path it isn't fuse protected...bad news but they should see the smoke before the fire :-) Eric O just did the same test yesterday on a chassis ground using a test light aka scope on a rope & jumper cables & today you covered block grounds using same tried & proven method.... Key is loaded circuit, loaded circuit, loaded circuit!!! Great video Paul & I highly recommend your Premium channel to anyone wanting to learn automotive diagnostics at a bargain price!
The more I think about this the more elegantly simple it becomes. A few ohms of extra resistance will paralyze high current devices, even though most low current circuits do fine. The test light showed the problem but it robbed power from the starter, allowing more current to flow but not enough to turn the armature. Excellent demonstration. Great point about the risk of backfeeding through sensitive electronics.
hi scanner danner i watch your videos everyday to learn something new an i find this one very interesting i am a auto Electrian at Mazda car company in Jamaica you teach me so much please keep doing the good work. thanks far all your information.
I have a 97 Expedition that the previous owner hacked all up and then it's sad for about 2 years and all the braided ground straps were all rotten and corroded and had the main negative going to the block instead of to the starter so I started cleaning up grounds and rust jacking spots and grinding it down to good clean steel and I'll keep you posted when I find out if you're going to fire it up cuz like you said at the almost the end of your video all I get is one loud click from the Bendix not enough continuity for the starter to spin the motor over. Your channel is a great help thank you very much.
I had the same problem once. Wouldn't crank sometimes but then be fine for days. It was a ground wire from the top of the block to the starter relay. Only figured it out once I saw the smoke. I had no idea about cars back then and it took me 3 days to find the fix. Proud moment when I fixed my first car.
I am hoping that is the issue that I'm having. My Mitsubishi Outlander won't start intermittently. Sometimes it does fine, sometimes I can't get it to start for hours or even days. I'm thinking there might be a damaged ground wire somewhere on the starter or something.
Oh my God , I love this cel phone, I went and changed about 3 starters and nothing, Im goin back to my pick up, Im sure this time it will crank, Thank you man.
Back in the 90's, we used to get a lot of cars that would not start after someone changed the clutch... same idea, bad ground at the transmission / block, BUT... the injector driver(s) would fry, because the starter found a ground path through the ECM. Depending on how the driver blew, it would no longer squirt fuel, or the injectors would be stuck open... flooding the cylinders.
Have a 2010 VW Routan(Chrysler). I had the problem of one click, no start. This fix may not fix everyone's but it did mine. It is likely not the starter or the battery. If the starter is clicking then it is not the NSS at all. The NSS prevents the starter from doing anything. So check that off. Switching your gears is NOT fixing the problem. It's only a coincidence that it works after. I have this problem after my first OEM starter blew and a new (re-man) one was put in by dealer and sometime after my trans was replaced/fixed for a whirring problem. This problem went on for several years and slowly got worse. This year.(2020) It would happen everyday and almost everytime I tried to start it. Put 2 starters on it, same thing, battery good, etc. Weird it hardly ever happened in the winter. I'm believing now it's because of the drier weather. Now after watching this video I decided to check the grounds. (ua-cam.com/video/qdS1Ru1s6H4/v-deo.html). To make this short. I replaced the broken ground strap that is on the passenger side engine compartment that grounds the block to the frame. Mine was broken as you will likely find yours to be. (www.chryslerminivan.net/threads/ground-strap-broken.170175/) Then I removed both cables on the starter (There are 2) and cleaned them with a power drill with wire brush attached. (nice and shiney) Then I removed the eyelet ground wire from the battery to the frame (located inside engine compartment behind drivers side headlight) Cleaned that the same way.(nice and shiney, both eyelet and post). Next do the same for ground wire that screws onto the transmission housing. (power drill, wire brush, bare metal) Tighten up. Clean battery posts too if yours are crappy. Basically, you're just not having a good enough ground to spin that starter. Haven't had the problem since, over 2 weeks now. Problem: One click, no start. Solved: Cleaned ground connections and the "hot" connections to starter.
The way I see it Paul, is during starting due to a lack of a solid block ground, the starter cannot source it's 150 amps required for cranking. At that time, it's trying other ground routes for the starter current back to the battery ground. There may be paths available but with the high amperage trying to be conducted the available grounds are dropping to much voltage and the starter is getting less than the minimum required approximately 10 VDC. Once the car is started, the remaining power circuits required for ignition, etc have ground routes available that do not draw high amperage and are satisfied providing ground paths for these ignition/computer/sensor circuits that are required for the engine to run? Thanks Paul.
Excellent SHO ...W! Good Job with diagnosing block ground. (Short Circuit) Im foing through same trying to locate starter ground, ignition. Basics..advice id helpful too
I agree Paul James should come down next year to etch meet be even more exciting to see more of the worlds best techs and James falls right in with best techs as u all do
Can't believe the garage couldn't carry out that simple test themselves. As an ex Nissan technician & foreman I would expect every mechanic to know those basics, even the apprentices.
One of the most common mistakes in the industry. I have gotten dozens of no start/hard start/stall no start conditions, and in most cases a bad ground being the culprit. I see it way too often with body shop cars.
Very common but not always due to error sometimes the cables just break, the old style earth braids were more flexible --- if called out to a no crank no start a jump a cable engine or gearbox to battery negative was always the first quick and diry test. Increasing even finding a good ground on the engine to hook up the jumper cable is becoming more difficult,
Yes often block grounds aren't in obvious places. For anybody building or restoring a car it is a good idea to locate the grounds in a visible place, or even run an extra ground strap between engine and body.
This video was helpful. I stumbled across a bad ground recently, thinking it was a bad starter but it was just the ground wire connected to the frame. Once connected to starter, no problem. Would the battery not charge properly with a bad ground to starter or block? The vehicle has charging issues, alternator shows good.
Hi ScannerDanner I notice you mentioning the braided strap. can you clarify the difference between what I am familiar with as a "BONDING STRAP" to an actual Ground. I think your viewers would appreciate the explanation.
2003 3.8 mustang. Cranks fine, then nothing. Checked, battery, cables, grounds, and fuses. Just took the starter out because I couldn't get to the wires to test it 😓 Now to test or get new one. Sidenote: I watched a video where a guy took the relay fuse out and jumped the starter with a wire to test it. All I did was blow a fuse. Or at least that's all I hope I did
Was hoping for a smart Alec remark. We need more videos James. Was watching and older video on 4 wire Toyota/Lexus cops and was wondering if u guys insist on OE coils at the James Danner romper room. Hoping Toyota Tech would chime in from Brexit land?? The video was on Scanner Danner. Which is fantastic. Only thing better is premium, which I wouldn't go with out. I have UA-cam Red. The only time I have to watch an ad is on Scanner Danner Premium. Why is that Paul?
Paul. Thanks for the great example with test light and jumper wire. I am a premium subscriber and have learned a tremendous amount from your video’s. Quick question on body grounds. I have a 05 Caravan with a corroded G101 ground stud. The stud snapped when attempting to remove the corroded nut. No problem though I drilled a 1/4 hole next to it and reattached the ground eyelit there. If I run an additional wire attached to the ground stud to batt negative do you foresee any problems? I am thinking more paths to ground the better. Just curious in case I am somehow bypassing chassis ground system. Thanks for all your help and explanations.
I don't really understand why the test light should not light up, I thought the idea was to get electricity to flow through the engine block back to the negative terminal. Good video!
Need to change my negative batt cable, works ok it's just old. I have a nice new cable, I just need to track the old cable to see where it's grouded to. I have a 96 Ford F-150 with a 5.0 V8. I wished I could afford some diagnostic tools, like the ones you have.
In the old days when cars still had carbs with manually operated chokes we used to see old style BL Minis where a lower engine mount would fail and would be only restrained by the block ground. Eventually the extra strain would break the block ground braid and the customer would complain that the car was very slow to crank and smoke was coming from the dash as the engine grounded through the choke and throttle cables.
It's easy to ignore floppy engine mounts, but they can really wreck havoc. My '92 Dodge Monaco (near-Renault 25) had a cracked fuel line, then all the transmission fluid leaked out a hole in the side of the casing, at which point I caught on and replaced all the mounts. More recently, I went to visit my sister and brother-in-law and complained that their VW was so loud I couldn't hear them talking. Turned out everything was going wrong at once, including electrical glitches and exhaust leaks; I suggested they look at the engine, transmission and subframe mounts. They were all bad, but the car was too far gone.
This is interesting. I had an issue once where my tail lights weren't getting a good ground and I connected my jumper cable from the battery to near the tail gate. I left it running for 20 minutes and when I disconnected the cable it too stayed on, but from this the lights came on without me cleaning a ground for about 3 months. That blew my mind. I started thinking trying to see why. It's like the electrons remained in the metal. I asked everyone had they experienced that no one had until I saw this although this didn't last nearly as long.
Always look for your comments. I was wondering, I am sorry don't know your first name, when u work on a friends car, do u sometimes use aftermarket parts. And which ones can we cheat on? I have used aftermarket coils. New af sensors always bite me. Older o2s sometimes ok. Thank u for your input.
+Bill Rimmer Depends on what kind of job they want. If they're keeping the car and can afford I use genuine from the dealer or aftermarket OEM. If it's a cheap job, cheap crap parts! Tom.
Thank you so much! I believe this just confirmed that I have a bad block ground. Cause there are times when I try to start my car (battery charged w/good clean connections) I get no crank. But as soon as I hook the jumper cables, it starts right up. Funny thing is on a normal temperature day it will start on its own. When it is real cold or hot outside sometimes I will turn the key and it will take a second or two before it cranks and starts, or I have to turn the key two or more times before I get my crank. Someone said it was my starter or ignition switch, but the fact it starts right up with my jumper voids that suggestion (plus, I did have my starter go bad and it was replaced) I have also gotten a new battery (twice). Like you stated in this video, I think the reason it starts on normal temp days is it is finding some alternate way to ground, then on the hot or cold days it can't get that ground... I will watch your other videos then run some test to confirm this. S.D. Thanks again!
Thanks so much! Here is a playlist I created for starting, charging, battery issues. I'm sure these will help you if you cannot find a bad block ground. ua-cam.com/play/PLAFYVCyenqcpZM-kQg5MUX0OvrIPSirz5.html
This helped, trying to find the ground in a 98 Chrysler Sebring. It was difficult finding the battery, but after watching your tutorial, I have discovered it's the ground to ecu? if you have the time please respond with any theory of location of the ground for my vehicle. Thank you. WONDERFUL job!
Post your question here. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html I'm sure we can help you. Thanks! Hope to see you there. It is free to join my forum.
Working on a chrysler at the moment. Where would 150mV come from on the block? And would that be enough to mess up a tcm which is grounded on the block? Already replaced the alternator which tested bad. After replacing the alternator, the block voltage (and tcm ground) dropped to 90mV.
Only trained mechanics would expect to see a test light light up touching an engine block that has a bad ground with the test light hooked to ground. Ive been around mechanicing for a long time and have never come across this particular situation. This is one of those wow! Moments for me. I have come across a 24 V alternator on a bulldozer not charging because some one lost the insulator washer at the alternator to battery term. After much head scratching I found it because the eye on the red lead going from the alternator to the battery had turned glowing red. I'm still not exactly sure how a direct short like that on a 24 v system did not instantly burn the wire in half maybe there was a protection circuit in there somewhere..
good old tale my father would say. what are the 3 things you need to start an engine. spark.fuel,compression and when looking into electronics. BV,CV and EV. is all u need to know
I hope they welded the cams on that engine when they replaced it. So many of these cool little Yamaha V8's are in the junk yard because of crappy cam gears.
When I see this it makes me want to check the other ground in particular the engine to body and body to battery as those wires and connections are only rated for vehicle loads usually around 50Amp max. I have also seen systems where they go battery - body - engine they seem to be the worst for bad grounds due to corrosion on the body where the wire is fastened.
Hopefully you can answer this question? I had a 89(?, not sure about this) Toyota pickup. It was parked on the street and got hit in the front drivers side. Before the accident, it was running fine. After the accident, it would turn the engine over but wouldn't start. However, after a couple of minutes of turning over the engine before it would start. I would need to go through this everytime I needed to start the vehicle.
Check fuel pressure when it is not starting. My money is on a problem with the fuel pump cut off switch circuit of the vane airflow meter on your truck
Do some tests and find out. Need to know what you're missing when it doesn't start. If you need more help post to my forum scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
Question. What if test light has a dim constant flash while engine is running? Wouldn't that mean a bad engine block ground as well? I clamped test light to negative (ground) battery post and probe at the block while engine was running.,and light constantly, flashed.
hi i have a no rpm tach running and also water temp gauge in the dash but sometime it does it work so i was wondering if a bad ground is involve but which is at fault my car is a 1990 ford sho should be about the same thin i would think
Hey Paul. Surely this problem is weird; how do I get directed towards a bad ground with a no crank problem? Because I would be like checking the starting system.
Usually there will be a few indications that show a bad ground. Plus one of the first things to check in any no-start are the power and grounds, especially in the rust belt.
You would find this through voltage drop testing of the starting system. 12v around about at battery. A lot less at starter then checking for either positive cable or ground voltage drops, all while loading (cranking) the starter system. Pauls way with the test light though is a very quick and simple way to check the ground integrity of the starter system. Hope that helps.
Grease and dirt, no, but corrosion could, but I've never seen it as the area where it contacts the block is pretty well sealed just by the clamping force of the bolts. Then the bolts would have to corrode too
Good SHow!!! My problem is the remote wire to the starter has no voltage (radio/all eletronics cuts out when I turn key. I changed the ignition switch and starter switch (82 Chevy Blazer), still nothing. Starter is getting 12 volts and i can start it via flat head on the starter.
Park/Neutral switch is part of that circuit too. You need to get yourself a good wiring diagram and track that circuit. eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
What could it be if the car sometimes starts but sometimes it doesn't? Battery is fine, starter relay is fine... I'm guessing it could possibly be a damaged ground wire?
@@katieherre54 mine was a wire attached to the starter - it was warned out. Good thing I knew a mechanic and he attached a wire to the starter. I didnt have to buy a new starter. Thank you Jesus!!!!
I find using this test light a little confusing, wouldn't it be easier, just my opinion, to use an Ohm meter to check for resistance between the neg batt connector and ANY metal surface that should be connected to engine ground. Of course this may cost more with the need of a multimeter - digital is the best... Food for thought -
And NO, the ohmmeter is THE WORST tool for this situation. I have a few videos to show where a high resistance circuit can show perfect resistance when tested with an ohmmeter. In short, it does not stress the circuit. Watch this one. Move to near the end of the video where I show the ohm tests ua-cam.com/video/44dP6X3QS5A/v-deo.html
I have a question: Whenever I go through a car wash or have my truck outdoors in heavy rain at an angle (back end of the truck higher than the engine on a sloped driveway), my engine gets grounded. Clicks but no crank and starts draining the battery. Been trying to track this issue but no luck. Is it really as simple as Battery Negative to Engine block ground?
I wonder if an LED test light would have actually worked in this instance or not! The voltage differential was opposite of what it should have been when you loaded up the block, and since LEDs can only pass current in one direction, I'm not sure we would have seen it function the same way your incandescent did.
Old post so I’m hoping you see this comment. So will this work for vehicles with a bad ground strap like you see alot of gm’s and fords have with no starts. Run test light negative battery to block and the block will be in a sense energized. Is this true for all engine grounds?
a bad block ground can do all sorts of cray things, but if you have an anti-theft light blinking at you, you need to scan it for codes first and go from there. Attck any anti-theft related faults first. See where it leads you.
ScannerDanner the thing is that it doesn’t give me any code but a while ago I had my engine shut down by it self and the obd gave me the code U0122. But now no code whatsoever
vary interesting like the video had a lose ground on my silverado dash would go in and out and i had a service 4wd on the dash turns out it was lose ground from head to firewall
Hey Scanner Danner..i had a question about sensor grounds...lets say if a sensor ground is spliced originally to all sensors like in fords..map..tps..maf..o2s..tfts..and lets say a tft trans temp sensor has a bad sensor ground is it possible to splice in an external ground lets say to the chassis
It would be better to find your open ground and fix it or at least splice it into another sensor ground circuit rather than to the body of the car. Make sense?
ScannerDanner.. definately makes sense...i know i heard about that..i wasnt sure if its ok to do...i have another question.. a 1999 chevy s10 p/u 2.2L came in..blown ecm fuse..i saw that the placed the main battery ground (fat wire) in front of the bell housing of the A/T..i looked on the schematic it shows it in the same area but behind where it is currently at on the engine block side..would that have any affect on other grounds or on the starter considering its bolted on to the block..
I am thinking I have a bad ground somewhere on my car and wondered if you could help, I have a no crank situation, power gets to the starter from the battery, the smaller wire that comes from the ignition switch only gets voltage when disconnected from the solenoid. there is also a clicking relay that doesn't stop clicking until late the ignition is switched off, any ideas?
You have a voltage drop on that solenoid wire for sure. Post this to my forum with the year make model and engine size and we will see if we can get you a wiring diagram of that solenoid circuit. Also, the clicking you are describing is a classic low voltage issue. Let's talk about it on the forum okay? scannerdanner.com/forum.html
teburg10 The voltage drop test is conducted with respect to battery ground. The battery ground cable "strap" is connected directly from battery ground terminal to the engine block. Therefore with a Clem connection from battery ground to engine block the two points are at battery ground, 0 volts. When there is a "bad block ground" what it means is that there is resistance build up between the engine block and the negative battery terminal. This resistance acts as a resistor in series back to the battery negative terminal, therefore during high current draw, for instance when starter is engaged, this resistance build up causes a voltage drop across this resistance and takes away from the required ~ 9 volts for the starter and limits the required current as well. To test for voltage drop , with meter place positive probe on engine block and negative probe on battery negative terminal, while cranking engine voltage reading should be about 0.5 volts or less.
I got my Auto technology book..I went straight to electrical...but ur are the most talented teacher..can't never stop learning from yu
Hands down one of the best videos demonstrating voltage drop.
That's a great example of the simple ground fault issues! Beautiful! I recently found a ground issue on a friends 99 Cherokee. It would skip lightly under moderate or more acceleration, and around left turns with moderate speed. Found a no hold down battery, and a battery negative cable to body ground with a 99.99% broken terminal end. There was still the most minimal connection, and the short length was still pushing against the broken terminal, not pulling away. When the no hold down battery would wobble under movement, it would relieve pressure against the broken terminal, and would cause the skipping. I showed it to my friend, and said that was the cause. He looked UNAMUSED!! I repaired the broken terminal, we took it for a test ride, and the problem disappeared! He was no longer UNAMUSED. I added a hold down, and the problem has completely disappeared! These vids you guys produce (the ERIC TWINS, IVAN THE WONDERFUL, YOUR OWN BROTHER MR JAMES DANNER, and (of course) YOURSELF) are so informational, and entertaining. Thank you so much!
1a1a⁰a 00q00
Hi Paul, great video. Voltage drop testing is such a fundamental electrical test, and yet is the most under used test in the industry. I am also a college professor, and I push VD testing so heavily on my students, I'm sure they do it in their sleep. Before teaching I was a tech. for 30 years, and I can't count how many times this simple test fixed vehicles that other techs. threw in the towel on. I teach them this method with the test light, and also with a voltmeter. I love your channel, and I use your videos in the classroom.
northpostman well done buddy, they never taught us this voltage drop test in college, all theoretical, no common applications!!
scannerdanner is the man!!
That amazes me how someone can connect a ground wire to a non-metallic surface or an isolated metallic surface consciously & not realize what condition they are creating. That high amp current will find a way to ground & if it finds a low amp ground circuit path it isn't fuse protected...bad news but they should see the smoke before the fire :-) Eric O just did the same test yesterday on a chassis ground using a test light aka scope on a rope & jumper cables & today you covered block grounds using same tried & proven method.... Key is loaded circuit, loaded circuit, loaded circuit!!! Great video Paul & I highly recommend your Premium channel to anyone wanting to learn automotive diagnostics at a bargain price!
The more I think about this the more elegantly simple it becomes. A few ohms of extra resistance will paralyze high current devices, even though most low current circuits do fine. The test light showed the problem but it robbed power from the starter, allowing more current to flow but not enough to turn the armature. Excellent demonstration. Great point about the risk of backfeeding through sensitive electronics.
hi scanner danner i watch your videos everyday to learn something new an i find this one very interesting i am a auto Electrian at Mazda car company in Jamaica you teach me so much please keep doing the good work. thanks far all your information.
Thank you!
I have a 97 Expedition that the previous owner hacked all up and then it's sad for about 2 years and all the braided ground straps were all rotten and corroded and had the main negative going to the block instead of to the starter so I started cleaning up grounds and rust jacking spots and grinding it down to good clean steel and I'll keep you posted when I find out if you're going to fire it up cuz like you said at the almost the end of your video all I get is one loud click from the Bendix not enough continuity for the starter to spin the motor over. Your channel is a great help thank you very much.
Thank you!
I had the same problem once. Wouldn't crank sometimes but then be fine for days. It was a ground wire from the top of the block to the starter relay. Only figured it out once I saw the smoke. I had no idea about cars back then and it took me 3 days to find the fix. Proud moment when I fixed my first car.
I am hoping that is the issue that I'm having. My Mitsubishi Outlander won't start intermittently. Sometimes it does fine, sometimes I can't get it to start for hours or even days. I'm thinking there might be a damaged ground wire somewhere on the starter or something.
I have this problem, no crank once a month. Can jump relay starts right up.
Oh my God , I love this cel phone, I went and changed about 3 starters and nothing, Im goin back to my pick up, Im sure this time it will crank, Thank you man.
voltage drop testing one of my favorite and the most basic and simple tests to teach :)
Every time i see you i learned something ❤keep up the good work 👏 🙌 👍 ❤
Back in the 90's, we used to get a lot of cars that would not start after someone changed the clutch... same idea, bad ground at the transmission / block, BUT... the injector driver(s) would fry, because the starter found a ground path through the ECM. Depending on how the driver blew, it would no longer squirt fuel, or the injectors would be stuck open... flooding the cylinders.
I can appreciate how they put the clamps on uniformly. Very nice. And nice video Danner. Seen the other videos awhile ago and use this any time I can
Have a 2010 VW Routan(Chrysler). I had the problem of one click, no
start. This fix may not fix everyone's but it did mine. It is likely
not the starter or the battery. If the starter is clicking then it is
not the NSS at all. The NSS prevents the starter from doing anything.
So check that off. Switching your gears is NOT fixing the problem.
It's only a coincidence that it works after. I have this problem after
my first OEM starter blew and a new (re-man) one was put in by dealer
and sometime after my trans was replaced/fixed for a whirring problem.
This problem went on for several years and slowly got worse. This
year.(2020) It would happen everyday and almost everytime I tried to
start it. Put 2 starters on it, same thing, battery good, etc. Weird
it hardly ever happened in the winter. I'm believing now it's because
of the drier weather. Now after watching this video I decided to check
the grounds. (ua-cam.com/video/qdS1Ru1s6H4/v-deo.html). To make
this short. I replaced the broken ground strap that is on the passenger
side engine compartment that grounds the block to the frame. Mine was
broken as you will likely find yours to be.
(www.chryslerminivan.net/threads/ground-strap-broken.170175/)
Then I removed both cables on the starter (There are 2) and cleaned them
with a power drill with wire brush attached. (nice and shiney) Then I
removed the eyelet ground wire from the battery to the frame (located
inside engine compartment behind drivers side headlight) Cleaned that
the same way.(nice and shiney, both eyelet and post). Next do the same
for ground wire that screws onto the transmission housing. (power drill,
wire brush, bare metal) Tighten up. Clean battery posts too if yours
are crappy. Basically, you're just not having a good enough ground to
spin that starter. Haven't had the problem since, over 2 weeks now.
Problem: One click, no start. Solved: Cleaned ground connections and
the "hot" connections to starter.
Nice Video Paul, you can find a lot out by doing voltage drop tests, people dont realize...cheers from Fred in England...
The way I see it Paul, is during starting due to a lack of a solid block ground, the starter cannot source it's 150 amps required for cranking. At that time, it's trying other ground routes for the starter current back to the battery ground. There may be paths available but with the high amperage trying to be conducted the available grounds are dropping to much voltage and the starter is getting less than the minimum required approximately 10 VDC. Once the car is started, the remaining power circuits required for ignition, etc have ground routes available that do not draw high amperage and are satisfied providing ground paths for these ignition/computer/sensor circuits that are required for the engine to run?
Thanks Paul.
I really appreciate what you do brother. Watching your videos has helped me immensely. 🙏
I appreciate that. Thank you!
Excellent teaching on ground simple and to the point....
Thanks you sir excellent work,,,stay blessed,, have a great day 👌
Excellent SHO ...W! Good Job with diagnosing block ground. (Short Circuit) Im foing through same trying to locate starter ground, ignition. Basics..advice id helpful too
Thanks ScannerDanner for the bad block ground diagnosis, very helpful
Outstanding work; I'm beginning to learn a lot. Thanks -
Wonder if the bad block to ground would cause a crank but no startup situation. Thanks for the visual.
I agree Paul James should come down next year to etch meet be even more exciting to see more of the worlds best techs and James falls right in with best techs as u all do
Can't believe the garage couldn't carry out that simple test themselves. As an ex Nissan technician & foreman I would expect every mechanic to know those basics, even the apprentices.
One of the most common mistakes in the industry. I have gotten dozens of no start/hard start/stall no start conditions, and in most cases a bad ground being the culprit. I see it way too often with body shop cars.
Very common but not always due to error sometimes the cables just break, the old style earth braids were more flexible --- if called out to a no crank no start a jump a cable engine or gearbox to battery negative was always the first quick and diry test.
Increasing even finding a good ground on the engine to hook up the jumper cable is becoming more difficult,
In this garages defense. They realized their mistake but allowed me to film it.
ScannerDanner An honest mistake. Lord knows I have committed my fair share.
Yes often block grounds aren't in obvious places. For anybody building or restoring a car it is a good idea to locate the grounds in a visible place, or even run an extra ground strap between engine and body.
I have a test light that also has a digital readout for exact voltage. Its the best thing ever.
Outstanding demonstration Paul. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.
Nice video. I have seen older cars run with the engine grounding out only on the throttle linkage :-)
This video was helpful. I stumbled across a bad ground recently, thinking it was a bad starter but it was just the ground wire connected to the frame. Once connected to starter, no problem. Would the battery not charge properly with a bad ground to starter or block? The vehicle has charging issues, alternator shows good.
Love it. It's cool when the problem is an easy fix.
Great video Mr.Paul Danner as always
Thank you I had the some proplem i went out to the car hookup jumping cables and it started , and again thank you
Im currently working on 12 Avalon that has a problem with the climate control and radio lights flickering....leaning towards a ground wire as well
Hi ScannerDanner
I notice you mentioning the braided strap. can you clarify the difference between what I am familiar with as a "BONDING STRAP" to an actual Ground. I think your viewers would appreciate the explanation.
I sure hope this is what's wrong with mine. Can't wait till morning. Thanks for the video 👍
Looking forward to hearing about it!
Still chasing 😭
@@maxpower3949 what's going on and what tests have you done?
2003 3.8 mustang. Cranks fine, then nothing. Checked, battery, cables, grounds, and fuses. Just took the starter out because I couldn't get to the wires to test it 😓 Now to test or get new one. Sidenote: I watched a video where a guy took the relay fuse out and jumped the starter with a wire to test it. All I did was blow a fuse. Or at least that's all I hope I did
It was the solenoid. Didn't have a way to check that first 😥
Everyone always buries themselves in high tech testing but the good ole' KISS theory still works on a 2016 car.
By the way thank you for the fast response..you are one of the best in the buisness..
I was using an ked test light when I found a bad ground on my Chevy van no start vid. but I'm with you. just an incandescent seems more precise.
Hey big brother, thanks for the comment. Enjoy the beach man. I'm seriously going to miss it this year.
It looked like the out west trip and the UA-cam etcg thing was a great time, but there is nothing like shutting down at the beach
Exactly. By the way, you should come next year to the e etcg meet up. You're presence was requested by many
Was hoping for a smart Alec remark. We need more videos James. Was watching and older video on 4 wire Toyota/Lexus cops and was wondering if u guys insist on OE coils at the James Danner romper room. Hoping Toyota Tech would chime in from Brexit land?? The video was on Scanner Danner. Which is fantastic. Only thing better is premium, which I wouldn't go with out. I have UA-cam Red. The only time I have to watch an ad is on Scanner Danner Premium. Why is that Paul?
James hope to meet you next year at ETCG'S. Bring your shop friends too
Paul. Thanks for the great example with test light and jumper wire. I am a premium subscriber and have learned a tremendous amount from your video’s. Quick question on body grounds. I have a 05 Caravan with a corroded G101 ground stud. The stud snapped when attempting to remove the corroded nut. No problem though I drilled a 1/4 hole next to it and reattached the ground eyelit there. If I run an additional wire attached to the ground stud to batt negative do you foresee any problems? I am thinking more paths to ground the better. Just curious in case I am somehow bypassing chassis ground system. Thanks for all your help and explanations.
I don't really understand why the test light should not light up, I thought the idea was to get electricity to flow through the engine block back to the negative terminal. Good video!
Because voltage potential is 0v on all good grounds. And my test light is connected to battery ground!
@@ScannerDanner Thanks so much!
Folow you from saudi arabia you are the best am one of your student
Thank you!
Need to change my negative batt cable, works ok it's just old. I have a nice new cable, I just need to track the old cable to see where it's grouded to. I have a 96 Ford F-150 with a 5.0 V8. I wished I could afford some diagnostic tools, like the ones you have.
In the old days when cars still had carbs with manually operated chokes we used to see old style BL Minis where a lower engine mount would fail and would be only restrained by the block ground. Eventually the extra strain would break the block ground braid and the customer would complain that the car was very slow to crank and smoke was coming from the dash as the engine grounded through the choke and throttle cables.
That's crazy! And awesome at the same time!
It's easy to ignore floppy engine mounts, but they can really wreck havoc. My '92 Dodge Monaco (near-Renault 25) had a cracked fuel line, then all the transmission fluid leaked out a hole in the side of the casing, at which point I caught on and replaced all the mounts. More recently, I went to visit my sister and brother-in-law and complained that their VW was so loud I couldn't hear them talking. Turned out everything was going wrong at once, including electrical glitches and exhaust leaks; I suggested they look at the engine, transmission and subframe mounts. They were all bad, but the car was too far gone.
This is interesting. I had an issue once where my tail lights weren't getting a good ground and I connected my jumper cable from the battery to near the tail gate. I left it running for 20 minutes and when I disconnected the cable it too stayed on, but from this the lights came on without me cleaning a ground for about 3 months. That blew my mind. I started thinking trying to see why. It's like the electrons remained in the metal. I asked everyone had they experienced that no one had until I saw this although this didn't last nearly as long.
Great tutorial of basic tests and basic tools. Nice case study Paul. Thank you.
Always look for your comments. I was wondering, I am sorry don't know your first name, when u work on a friends car, do u sometimes use aftermarket parts. And which ones can we cheat on? I have used aftermarket coils. New af sensors always bite me. Older o2s sometimes ok. Thank u for your input.
+Bill Rimmer Depends on what kind of job they want. If they're keeping the car and can afford I use genuine from the dealer or aftermarket OEM. If it's a cheap job, cheap crap parts! Tom.
Thank u Tom!!
Makes perfect sense .
God bless
Wyr
thanks a lot for video could multimeter b used in place of test light. thanks again.
south main auto had the same video on a focus just yesterday!! sweet
Thank you so much! I believe this just confirmed that I have a bad block ground. Cause there are times when I try to start my car (battery charged w/good clean connections) I get no crank. But as soon as I hook the jumper cables, it starts right up. Funny thing is on a normal temperature day it will start on its own. When it is real cold or hot outside sometimes I will turn the key and it will take a second or two before it cranks and starts, or I have to turn the key two or more times before I get my crank. Someone said it was my starter or ignition switch, but the fact it starts right up with my jumper voids that suggestion (plus, I did have my starter go bad and it was replaced) I have also gotten a new battery (twice). Like you stated in this video, I think the reason it starts on normal temp days is it is finding some alternate way to ground, then on the hot or cold days it can't get that ground... I will watch your other videos then run some test to confirm this. S.D. Thanks again!
Thanks so much! Here is a playlist I created for starting, charging, battery issues. I'm sure these will help you if you cannot find a bad block ground.
ua-cam.com/play/PLAFYVCyenqcpZM-kQg5MUX0OvrIPSirz5.html
This helped, trying to find the ground in a 98 Chrysler Sebring. It was difficult finding the battery, but after watching your tutorial, I have discovered it's the ground to ecu? if you have the time please respond with any theory of location of the ground for my vehicle. Thank you. WONDERFUL job!
Post your question here. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
I'm sure we can help you. Thanks! Hope to see you there. It is free to join my forum.
Nice job Paul.
do you have any videos on the immobilizer system , specifically gm passlock which seems to be prone to malfunction
Working on a chrysler at the moment. Where would 150mV come from on the block? And would that be enough to mess up a tcm which is grounded on the block? Already replaced the alternator which tested bad. After replacing the alternator, the block voltage (and tcm ground) dropped to 90mV.
Only trained mechanics would expect to see a test light light up touching an engine block that has a bad ground with the test light hooked to ground. Ive been around mechanicing for a long time and have never come across this particular situation. This is one of those wow! Moments for me.
I have come across a 24 V alternator on a bulldozer not charging because some one lost the insulator washer at the alternator to battery term. After much head scratching I found it because the eye on the red lead going from the alternator to the battery had turned glowing red. I'm still not exactly sure how a direct short like that on a 24 v system did not instantly burn the wire in half maybe there was a protection circuit in there somewhere..
Ah the old "Scope on a Rope........" Well done
Great episode! Thank you!
good old tale my father would say. what are the 3 things you need to start an engine. spark.fuel,compression and when looking into electronics. BV,CV and EV. is all u need to know
Very good
awsome test for bad ground. subscribed your channel.
Were the cams on the new engine welded? Otherwise this one will fail just the same as the last one :D
I found this video to be very grounding. ;-)
Very informative.
Thanks Paul Danner
I hope they welded the cams on that engine when they replaced it. So many of these cool little Yamaha V8's are in the junk yard because of crappy cam gears.
Excellent, excellent, excellent.
Tools? Test light and jumper cables. How cool is that?
very useful information thanks friend
Great work Paul =)
When I see this it makes me want to check the other ground in particular the engine to body and body to battery as those wires and connections are only rated for vehicle loads usually around 50Amp max.
I have also seen systems where they go battery - body - engine they seem to be the worst for bad grounds due to corrosion on the body where the wire is fastened.
YOU ARE THE MAN
Hopefully you can answer this question? I had a 89(?, not sure about this) Toyota pickup. It was parked on the street and got hit in the front drivers side. Before the accident, it was running fine. After the accident, it would turn the engine over but wouldn't start. However, after a couple of minutes of turning over the engine before it would start. I would need to go through this everytime I needed to start the vehicle.
Check fuel pressure when it is not starting. My money is on a problem with the fuel pump cut off switch circuit of the vane airflow meter on your truck
But would it start after cranking the engine for a couple of minutes?
Do some tests and find out. Need to know what you're missing when it doesn't start. If you need more help post to my forum
scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
Gotta go check
Hook jumper cables to the blockand battery ground is something I've used as a test.
Question. What if test light has a dim constant flash while engine is running? Wouldn't that mean a bad engine block ground as well? I clamped test light to negative (ground) battery post and probe at the block while engine was running.,and light constantly, flashed.
hi i have a no rpm tach running and also water temp gauge in the dash but sometime it does it work so i was wondering if a bad ground is involve but which is at fault my car is a 1990 ford sho should be about the same thin i would think
Hey Paul. Surely this problem is weird; how do I get directed towards a bad ground with a no crank problem? Because I would be like checking the starting system.
Usually there will be a few indications that show a bad ground. Plus one of the first things to check in any no-start are the power and grounds, especially in the rust belt.
You would find this through voltage drop testing of the starting system. 12v around about at battery. A lot less at starter then checking for either positive cable or ground voltage drops, all while loading (cranking) the starter system. Pauls way with the test light though is a very quick and simple way to check the ground integrity of the starter system. Hope that helps.
+Kirk Abrahamson got it, thanks people. Fortunately I don't worry about rust too much in the tropic ;)
Moving Up Diy q
This urges me to get the in the field study guide . Ive register to the website but havet purchased the mauel .
Very helpful! Thanks!
Could a dirty greasy starter case be the reason for voltage loss at the case?
Grease and dirt, no, but corrosion could, but I've never seen it as the area where it contacts the block is pretty well sealed just by the clamping force of the bolts. Then the bolts would have to corrode too
Do you have any information about a car losing power only going uphill and sometime on flat road but at soon pass the 4K rpm run normal?
Good SHow!!! My problem is the remote wire to the starter has no voltage (radio/all eletronics cuts out when I turn key. I changed the ignition switch and starter switch (82 Chevy Blazer), still nothing. Starter is getting 12 volts and i can start it via flat head on the starter.
Park/Neutral switch is part of that circuit too. You need to get yourself a good wiring diagram and track that circuit.
eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
What could it be if the car sometimes starts but sometimes it doesn't? Battery is fine, starter relay is fine... I'm guessing it could possibly be a damaged ground wire?
What ur saying is exactly what my Mountaineer is doing.
My 2002 mountaineer is doing the same thing, just started happening out of the blue
@@katieherre54 mine was a wire attached to the starter - it was warned out. Good thing I knew a mechanic and he attached a wire to the starter. I didnt have to buy a new starter. Thank you Jesus!!!!
where can I buy 2 of those terminals for my test lights ? I could really use some
What time frame, thanks!
I find using this test light a little confusing, wouldn't it be easier, just my opinion, to use an Ohm meter to check for resistance between the neg batt connector and ANY metal surface that should be connected to engine ground. Of course this may cost more with the need of a multimeter - digital is the best... Food for thought -
And NO, the ohmmeter is THE WORST tool for this situation. I have a few videos to show where a high resistance circuit can show perfect resistance when tested with an ohmmeter. In short, it does not stress the circuit.
Watch this one. Move to near the end of the video where I show the ohm tests
ua-cam.com/video/44dP6X3QS5A/v-deo.html
great point paul thanks
I have a question: Whenever I go through a car wash or have my truck outdoors in heavy rain at an angle (back end of the truck higher than the engine on a sloped driveway), my engine gets grounded. Clicks but no crank and starts draining the battery. Been trying to track this issue but no luck. Is it really as simple as Battery Negative to Engine block ground?
Awesome
I wonder if an LED test light would have actually worked in this instance or not! The voltage differential was opposite of what it should have been when you loaded up the block, and since LEDs can only pass current in one direction, I'm not sure we would have seen it function the same way your incandescent did.
p.s. put a high intensity light (I got mine at Home Depot -a pkg of 2 for 24.99) under your hood to eliminate your shadows.😊
Great video
Eric O did a video yesterday. cool.
Eric O did the same thing with a car.
jon Barfield â
Old post so I’m hoping you see this comment. So will this work for vehicles with a bad ground strap like you see alot of gm’s and fords have with no starts. Run test light negative battery to block and the block will be in a sense energized. Is this true for all engine grounds?
If it is a no crank situation, yes, absolutely.
Can this cause the anti-theft light to blink as well? keys in and turned
a bad block ground can do all sorts of cray things, but if you have an anti-theft light blinking at you, you need to scan it for codes first and go from there. Attck any anti-theft related faults first. See where it leads you.
ScannerDanner the thing is that it doesn’t give me any code but a while ago I had my engine shut down by it self and the obd gave me the code U0122. But now no code whatsoever
vary interesting like the video had a lose ground on my silverado dash would go in and out and i had a service 4wd on the dash turns out it was lose ground from head to firewall
Where is the engine earth located on right hand drive Nissan Navara?
Hey Scanner Danner..i had a question about sensor grounds...lets say if a sensor ground is spliced originally to all sensors like in fords..map..tps..maf..o2s..tfts..and lets say a tft trans temp sensor has a bad sensor ground is it possible to splice in an external ground lets say to the chassis
you can do that to see if the circuit comes back to life (and it will), it's just not a good fix from a noise standpoint
Ok...i was a lil confused with that...i know i read somewhere about it but was not sure if its ok to do..
It would be better to find your open ground and fix it or at least splice it into another sensor ground circuit rather than to the body of the car. Make sense?
ScannerDanner.. definately makes sense...i know i heard about that..i wasnt sure if its ok to do...i have another question.. a 1999 chevy s10 p/u 2.2L came in..blown ecm fuse..i saw that the placed the main battery ground (fat wire) in front of the bell housing of the A/T..i looked on the schematic it shows it in the same area but behind where it is currently at on the engine block side..would that have any affect on other grounds or on the starter considering its bolted on to the block..
That should be okay because of the steel bolt that is threaded into the block.
how to change the computer the starter the ignition switch oil at in a 2003 Cadillac DeVille and I still can't get it to crank
I am thinking I have a bad ground somewhere on my car and wondered if you could help, I have a no crank situation, power gets to the starter from the battery, the smaller wire that comes from the ignition switch only gets voltage when disconnected from the solenoid. there is also a clicking relay that doesn't stop clicking until late the ignition is switched off, any ideas?
You have a voltage drop on that solenoid wire for sure. Post this to my forum with the year make model and engine size and we will see if we can get you a wiring diagram of that solenoid circuit.
Also, the clicking you are describing is a classic low voltage issue. Let's talk about it on the forum okay?
scannerdanner.com/forum.html
+ScannerDanner I have just joined, what category do I put it under for new topic
good video amigo exselente
can i us a multi to test this with the positive on the battery and the negative on the block??
teburg10 The voltage drop test is conducted with respect to battery ground. The battery ground cable "strap" is connected directly from battery ground terminal to the engine block. Therefore with a Clem connection from battery ground to engine block the two points are at battery ground, 0 volts. When there is a "bad block ground" what it means is that there is resistance build up between the engine block and the negative battery terminal. This resistance acts as a resistor in series back to the battery negative terminal, therefore during high current draw, for instance when starter is engaged, this resistance build up causes a voltage drop across this resistance and takes away from the required ~ 9 volts for the starter and limits the required current as well.
To test for voltage drop , with meter place positive probe on engine block and negative probe on battery negative terminal, while cranking engine voltage reading should be about 0.5 volts or less.