The comments on this video are so wild. It is unreal how many people didn't understand what the video was ranking even though it was specifically clarified in the video. There is a big difference between a skill floor and a skill ceiling, and even more so there is an even bigger difference between getting value and mastery. This video was based on Mastery (which cares about the skill ceiling and NOT about how much value can be gained). The amount of comments about how easy a character is (skill floor) and/or how easy it is to get value from them (not to master them) is a testament to how little these people even understood what was being ranked.
She's harder to master than Genji and Genji was the hardest hero to master in Overwatch. Panther has no techs and the exact same play pattern every game. No way he has a higher skill ceiling. I predict that Panters will not get much better from here and the top 500 Panthers rn are close to as good as Panthers will be. While Psylocke's will be exponentially better and better as time goes on at the high levels of play.
@ her kit is harder to mess up on top of having much better ways of escaping danger, she overall has more damage and more mobility which makes her easier to play but I do absolutely think she’s a better character. Overwatch is just a bad comparison for difficulty for this game because this game is overall more difficult just off of the base fact that people in rivals move much faster than they do it overwatch making them harder to hit on top of overwatch being shield wars whereas there’s very little of that in rivals which opens a lot of versatility is play.
@@fallenknight2580 her invis is as simple as it gets her ult is a huge circle that makes her invulnerable her autos are pretty much hit scan with fast fire rate (which again are easier than projectile attacks) and then finally her dash is just an easier version of black panthers, it’s base 2 stacks you don’t have to do anything else to get that second stack and on top of that it automatically recalls your shurikans so you don’t even have to use that ability if you wanted to. Her kit is extremely simple
Timestamps: 0:19 spiderman 1:01 scarlet witch 1:20 hulk 1:40 rocket racoon 1:43 iron fist 1:58 jeff the shark 2:19 hela 2:22 winter soldier 2:32 loki 2:44 black panther 3:09 cloak and dagger 3:23 psylock 3:31 black widow 3:40 punisher 3:45 penni parker 3:56 adam warlock 4:11 captain america 4:19 doctor strange 4:40 groot 5:05 hawkeye 5:30 iron man 5:55 luna snow 6:37 magik 6:49 magneto 7:18 mantis 7:53 moon knight 8:02 namor 8:17 squirrel girl 8:43 star lord 9:21 storm 9:40 thor 9:47 venom 9:57 wolverine 10:17 heathen joins the call to talk about why hulk is the hardest character to master
Hot take, rocket is harder to master than you think. Most players can’t even crack 2k dmg while putting out over 12-15k heals. He’s very easy to learn, but hard to master. Once you get to plat it can be hard for you to perform at the same level as other supports/strategists and play your life due to you not having a get out of jail free card and your inconsistent primary fire. I would put him closer to B or maybe even A.
The heal orbs may be easy to spam your team for heals, but the fact that they bounce now adds another responsibility to healing for the Racoon. if you know the correct angles of the wall and your team, when you are running for your dear life, you can bounce the heal orbs off the wall, while jet packing too it, and climbing, and hover, etc, and the orbs will heal you and teammates, all while you are running for your life. You just have to be decent at geometry, and a whole new world open ups to you for this character. Also, you can choose who to not 'bring right back' with B.R.B, if you see one of your idiotic DPS is over-extending, and you know that player isn't really helping your team; cancel your B.R.B, it will go on a 5 sec cooldown, watch the feeder die, then put your BRB back down, so that a more deserving teammate can be revived. You don't want a bad teammate over-extending, dying before a big fight, and putting your BRB on a big 45 cooldown during the whole fight, so its effectively useless when you need it. You can keep cancelling your BRB as much as you want, just know that 5 seconds is a long time if shit hits the fan, but at least you know its not going to complete waste, because of a teammate that lacks discipline.
Peni should be A, maybe even S, and here’s why: Her right click, f, and ult can extend her nest for the robo spiders (Her ult’s power level depends on how long her nest stays alive and doesn’t damage anyone) Her right click has a collision hitbox and can cancel certain ults The versatility of mines I know she’s not tech heavy but she definitely deserves more than B
spot on. while most characters are 'see enemy and shoot', so much of her skill expression is in reacting to the objective, the map, the teams, the situation and choosing the right location/placement for mines, the spider machine, keeping it safe while also doing damage and helping the team. keeping yourself alive (dont even need healers to do it) versus keeping your gadget/web alive. then youve got the ability to shoot web while simultenously firing the gun. i reckon my web slinging accuracy might be approaching 50% now. Its actually quite reliable at short range and even medium. youve got her ability to sling herself out of harms way. something im working hard on. for example i hear any kind of ominous ULT sound, like a Jeff gulp or Psylocke and ill fire myself to the nearesr safe place. Then youve got the issue of battling with other Peni's doing the exact same thing youre doing. All of it makes her a character that can express a lot of skill.
I think peni is actually very tech heavy. There's a lot of interesting movement techs with her grapple that I've started really integrating into my gameplay thats been gamechanging
Psylocke being a hard character couldnt be further from the truth. With 2 dashes and invis on top of that it makes it so forgiving to make mistakes and get away with it. And the entire learning curve is to learn a few „oneshot combos“ and thats it. She just feels a bit like genji that actually requires a lot of skill and thats why people assume psylocke is the same difficulty as genji
An aim intensive hero like starlord that isn't forgiving clucking movement. Harder more easy to punish ult. To a no fall off shotgun hero, with sustain, invis, dashes, etc. People just show their bias. Cloak and dagger and Psylocke belong way lower. People are just thirsty. Period.
For those who know, what about hawkeye and magneto make them A and B(above strange) respectively? Strange has different ways you can use the portals and you probably need to watch your dark magic meter
I wonder if you have tried playing Hulk before, because Hulk is a very difficult mechanical hero. He doesn't shoot anything, so melee is easy, but jumping the correct distance to continue to stay on the enemy is mechanically awkward compare to pointing and clicking. Then, all of Hulk's abilities are skill shots, except his shield and ultimate within his ult. To maximize this guy, you have to land most of his skill shots while mid air, so that they come off cooldown enough to hit a person twice with the nuke, if you have the time before having to get out of the enemies back line. Then, knocking people out of the air is difficult. I can't tell you how many times I thought I chest bumped an enemy in the air, and didn't get the knockdown, probably because the 3rd person makes it awkward, as it's harder to perfectly square up the enemy in mid air when you have a right sided over the shoulder view. I am not a Hulk player, but I've been testing him out in some games, and I think he's hard, very mechanical. It's easy to hit shots with guns on level ground, strafing, but the inertia between the bottom and top of Hulk's leap, then back down, acceleration is changing speeds, and you have to flick some of those skill shots. Hulk is a mechanical monster dude. Hulk may have some comparisons to Winston, but he's a mechanical version. Hulk and Spidey both require game sense, and both have high mechanical requirements.
@ Im talking abt tank vs dps reward, dps need make more kill, tank need make more space, the end. Not that one requires something that the other doesn’t
@@sqpenn Yeah, but it almost sounds like you think making space is inherently done by less mechanically demanding characters. I don't want to put words in your mouth though.
@@Eastra3 the mechanics are directed at different things, good point, in this case id say spidey less leeway for mistakes just bc healthbar, but thats not to say hulk cant get hard punished
You dont think cloak is S tier 😂. Lol yeah I was like "we putting moira in s tier". I would love for someone to give me one good reason why cloak that high.
@@surriad1140 Yeah I understand not all the game is aim its only a portion, but having a hero where not a single bronze player will have under 90% accuracy and comparing that to a hero whos ability revolves around getting crits with slow projectiles is laughable. Like whats so hard about her? Hitting her e in cloak form? Getting your team to use your healing dome? Like what could be such a high skill cap?
@ getting her escapes down is pretty hard. She’s not as easy as she looks, to be effective it takes alot of micro managing. Not that she’s braindead easy but neither terribly complex. An average difficulty is reasonably
I'd love to see a sister video to this which is what heroes are the easiest to play to a reasonable level - i.e. floor to be effective instead of ceiling. Up to you what you would consider a reasonable level.
Genuine question: where does one go to actually learn about your character's advanced tech? The only thing I can really find for my main is UA-cam videos that give the same tips every time
as a current celestial player.. BP being a tier is wild spiderman makes sense but saying 'bp can't be in there with spiderman' is crazy considering yes there's a lot less you can do with BP but miss a single dash reset you're back in spawn. Spiderman is more forgiving anyway considering if you mess up a combo you can zip out of there no problem just wait and dive again, Psylocke being harder than BP is insane considering she can just dash out PLUS her invis?!? And you can't forget how easy it is to use her one shot combo...
Imo as a Storm mains mastering storm is a scary concept as he's kinda a DPS support Hybrid and her need to juggle damage boost for speed boost along with her wind blades being very hard to hit at range of say low A in the hard to master List
Only thing i would change is wolverine to bottom S cause he has a crazy potential not many is using him to it’s potential rn, the fact that you can just jump into enemy backline and pull one hero with you to your team to get guarantee kill is crazy
People just thirsty for cloak. That's it. Its like saying ana is easier to master than moira. Luna has an extremely high skill ceiling, crazy dmg with crits, hard to hit cc, even her ult is harder. To know when to dmg boost. People too thirsty over pixels thats why cloak and psylocke so high.
I honestly think it mostly depends on how you play that makes a certain character hard to master/play itself.. (I personally found Spiderman really easy to play for me, even though he has a very high skill cap)
this is a more complexity tier list and not a skill cap tier list because you sometimes forget or most likely haven't experienced fighting the 1% players enough and I must say that black panthers are almost untouchable and can kill pretty everyone when they are grouped together. I am not a black panther main but I've seen what they can do. Edit: Wolverine is also absolutely crazy too.
I'm a top 1% player and can play Panther myself to a GM level. I recognize how much better Panthers can get, but their is a limit to what is possible on the character past a certain mechanical threshold.
Hardest to get value tier list would be interesting. I was kinda stuck in bronze with Thor. Moved to Mantis and jumped to gold instantly while generally topping healing lists on the way. I just feel like I need to rotate the screen a lot, generally know where people are, and somewhat know when to push with ult. I don't feel like I need to understand the actual game very much at all as gold strategist. Very much unlike with Thor
@@fangiscool1 you have to manage your stacks as Thor making him kinda difficult and his 3 stack ability that gives him ranged autos makes him extremely vulnerable which a lot of people get baited by. Also I’d just say in general mantis is better than Thor and much easier to play than any of the tanks
@sonysdad4709 I think mechanically the stacks are relatively easy to be okay at. It's harder to know when to engage, how to de-engage, when to flank, etc. Mantis, at least at golf and below, takes all this complexity out of the game.
I’m assuming it’s the swapping mechanics, tracking 2 different sets of CDs, and knowing when to get good value out of Cloak’s shroud. Figuring out a good way to use their ult can be tricky too - it’s not as foolproof as Luna / Mantis. Also learning a bit of trigonometry so you can ricochet the healing daggers off walls to be able to heal people in hard-to-reach places can take some practice.
Wolverine should definitely be in S..his playstyle is different compared to other char, specifically melee chars...I believe you need to master when to enter, who to focus on, and who to kidnap from the enemy team using his shift skill..he may not be as hard as spider or bp but he def an s tier in terms of mastery difficulty. Also bp for me should be in s..*own opinion*
penni is def A maybe even S she doesnt play like any other character especially compared to overwatch most tanks fall into the brawl poke or dive composition penni isnt really any of those shes very defense about holding space with utility
Trying to force a niche playstyle in a gamemode the character doesnt work on doesnt rly equate to skill. Just swap and you wont have to work as hard in a mode the character isnt built for. In short, disagree, when she works she works very well for very little effort, and when she doesn’t she doesn’t
@@sqpenn how its a objective game? shes definitely better and easier on defense but still can be played very well even on stuff like attacking push because she holds space with ability's not herself thats very different and unique to how tanks are in overwatch that also equals you need skill to adapt to her unique playstyle and know when and were to to set up webs and mine and nests compared to most tanks just being glorified dps i actually think the tank design is much worse then overwatch there more dps with more health then having ability's to actually help them hold space thats why i like penni
@@codysorenson4298 convoy attack is basically the only one id object to running her For example on 2099, defense is fire, but attacking with her over other tanks just doesnt make any sense
@@NecroticNeko my point is that theres no reason to play her “even on stuff like attackong push” bc youre making your job harder for no reason and that doesn’t mean the character is harder to play
@@codysorenson4298 it’s lowkey more about aiming with her than that. Yeah she doesn’t aim, but I’ve seen pretty shitty scarlet players. She’s very squishy and her ult leaves her VERY exposed. Trust me bro. It’s more bout just the aim with her. As the skill ceiling of players grow you will barely use her ult or you have to be very careful and understand HOW and WHEN to use it. And she can’t push alone like psylocke and other DPS can because of how squishy you are. With scarlet is more about positioning and playing with the unit ya know?
@@OblivionDragmaok just because she's not good doesn't mean she's hard to play. That's like saying Ganondorf in smash is hard to play because he's the worst character in the game
Hella is not b her escape ability probably one of the easiest to use. Her ult is the easiest ult to use in the game. Her other ability is the only difficult thing about her really imo she is d
Scarlet is worse at higher tiers bc her skill floor is so low and ceiling not far above, her ease of use directly effects her output and she literally cant keep up with other characters. No skill expression
This is true but in this case she is simple and easy. From what I can tell the only skill expression is the ultimate. Thus likewise, bad at high tiers =/= hard
there is zero skill expression since the only thing to ever remotely think about on the character is when to ult but even in higher ranks you can easily just be shielded right before you ult anyways and then it's still brainless on top of her being so "countered" in better skilled lobbies is because she has such a low skill floor and ceiling since there isn't room for improvement you've maxxed out the character in like 5 games
5:40 iron man is brain dead af, lol u just sit in the sky spamming down. If your objective is to hold a spot and that spot is in the open and the team pushes u and iron man hangs back in the sky obliterating you shit be annoying af. (I play tank, I don’t play dps, and I play with randoms, I get it: “just tell your dps to take care of iron man. Welll I’ve tried lol) that being said, I think from personal interactions with iron man he’s just too easy of a character to play.
@@-8h- yeah, I agree. Iron Man doesn't have the generous splash AOE dmg of a Pharah from OW. If you aren't hitting direct shots with Iron man, you aren't likely to kill anything, and is just charging the enemy support ults. To have a higher chance of hitting direct shots, you have to get closer to the enemy, and with the slow air strafe, he's easy to shoot down. Iron Man has huge damage output potential, but in most cases, for him to output that damage, he has to put himself at great risk. Also, unless you have a support that is pocketing you, your supports will often not have an idea where you are, as looking up around rooftops isn't always their instinct, so heals often come a little too late. I understand where OblivionDragma is coming from, but Iron Man is just a skill check for DPS. Me personally, I have no problem killing Iron Man. A lot easier compared to Pharah's awkward free falling mixed with little boosts, make her way more erratic. Iron Man always hovers, so he goes slowly up and down, side to side. Noe jerky movement, unless he hits his boosters temporarily, but it takes half a second at least, before he is able to shoot or activate any ability after engaging boosters.
Hilarious because this isn't even the best playstyle to rely on at higher levels, at higher levels Ironman is playing as a backline duelist then sky spam playstyle.
The comments on this video are so wild. It is unreal how many people didn't understand what the video was ranking even though it was specifically clarified in the video. There is a big difference between a skill floor and a skill ceiling, and even more so there is an even bigger difference between getting value and mastery. This video was based on Mastery (which cares about the skill ceiling and NOT about how much value can be gained). The amount of comments about how easy a character is (skill floor) and/or how easy it is to get value from them (not to master them) is a testament to how little these people even understood what was being ranked.
not so hot take but psylocke is not hard to play and putting her above panther is crazy
She's harder to master than Genji and Genji was the hardest hero to master in Overwatch. Panther has no techs and the exact same play pattern every game. No way he has a higher skill ceiling. I predict that Panters will not get much better from here and the top 500 Panthers rn are close to as good as Panthers will be. While Psylocke's will be exponentially better and better as time goes on at the high levels of play.
@ her kit is harder to mess up on top of having much better ways of escaping danger, she overall has more damage and more mobility which makes her easier to play but I do absolutely think she’s a better character. Overwatch is just a bad comparison for difficulty for this game because this game is overall more difficult just off of the base fact that people in rivals move much faster than they do it overwatch making them harder to hit on top of overwatch being shield wars whereas there’s very little of that in rivals which opens a lot of versatility is play.
@@sonysdad4709everthing you talk about is about how better she is not about ease of use.
It's skill cealing, not skill floor
@@fallenknight2580 her invis is as simple as it gets her ult is a huge circle that makes her invulnerable her autos are pretty much hit scan with fast fire rate (which again are easier than projectile attacks) and then finally her dash is just an easier version of black panthers, it’s base 2 stacks you don’t have to do anything else to get that second stack and on top of that it automatically recalls your shurikans so you don’t even have to use that ability if you wanted to. Her kit is extremely simple
Timestamps:
0:19 spiderman
1:01 scarlet witch
1:20 hulk
1:40 rocket racoon
1:43 iron fist
1:58 jeff the shark
2:19 hela
2:22 winter soldier
2:32 loki
2:44 black panther
3:09 cloak and dagger
3:23 psylock
3:31 black widow
3:40 punisher
3:45 penni parker
3:56 adam warlock
4:11 captain america
4:19 doctor strange
4:40 groot
5:05 hawkeye
5:30 iron man
5:55 luna snow
6:37 magik
6:49 magneto
7:18 mantis
7:53 moon knight
8:02 namor
8:17 squirrel girl
8:43 star lord
9:21 storm
9:40 thor
9:47 venom
9:57 wolverine
10:17 heathen joins the call to talk about why hulk is the hardest character to master
thx
That hulk… my word. Dude is unreal
I appreciate the kind words (:
Hot take, rocket is harder to master than you think. Most players can’t even crack 2k dmg while putting out over 12-15k heals. He’s very easy to learn, but hard to master. Once you get to plat it can be hard for you to perform at the same level as other supports/strategists and play your life due to you not having a get out of jail free card and your inconsistent primary fire. I would put him closer to B or maybe even A.
The heal orbs may be easy to spam your team for heals, but the fact that they bounce now adds another responsibility to healing for the Racoon. if you know the correct angles of the wall and your team, when you are running for your dear life, you can bounce the heal orbs off the wall, while jet packing too it, and climbing, and hover, etc, and the orbs will heal you and teammates, all while you are running for your life. You just have to be decent at geometry, and a whole new world open ups to you for this character. Also, you can choose who to not 'bring right back' with B.R.B, if you see one of your idiotic DPS is over-extending, and you know that player isn't really helping your team; cancel your B.R.B, it will go on a 5 sec cooldown, watch the feeder die, then put your BRB back down, so that a more deserving teammate can be revived. You don't want a bad teammate over-extending, dying before a big fight, and putting your BRB on a big 45 cooldown during the whole fight, so its effectively useless when you need it. You can keep cancelling your BRB as much as you want, just know that 5 seconds is a long time if shit hits the fan, but at least you know its not going to complete waste, because of a teammate that lacks discipline.
This tier list doesn't take into account how hard they are to use I'm regards to game plan and actual effectiveness.
Peni should be A, maybe even S, and here’s why:
Her right click, f, and ult can extend her nest for the robo spiders (Her ult’s power level depends on how long her nest stays alive and doesn’t damage anyone)
Her right click has a collision hitbox and can cancel certain ults
The versatility of mines
I know she’s not tech heavy but she definitely deserves more than B
spot on. while most characters are 'see enemy and shoot', so much of her skill expression is in reacting to the objective, the map, the teams, the situation and choosing the right location/placement for mines, the spider machine, keeping it safe while also doing damage and helping the team. keeping yourself alive (dont even need healers to do it) versus keeping your gadget/web alive. then youve got the ability to shoot web while simultenously firing the gun. i reckon my web slinging accuracy might be approaching 50% now. Its actually quite reliable at short range and even medium. youve got her ability to sling herself out of harms way. something im working hard on. for example i hear any kind of ominous ULT sound, like a Jeff gulp or Psylocke and ill fire myself to the nearesr safe place. Then youve got the issue of battling with other Peni's doing the exact same thing youre doing. All of it makes her a character that can express a lot of skill.
Agreed. I main Peni and Adam Warlock. Peni has a much much much higher skill ceiling than Adam Warlock. (Although Warlock does have higher floor)
I think peni is actually very tech heavy. There's a lot of interesting movement techs with her grapple that I've started really integrating into my gameplay thats been gamechanging
Psylocke being a hard character couldnt be further from the truth. With 2 dashes and invis on top of that it makes it so forgiving to make mistakes and get away with it. And the entire learning curve is to learn a few „oneshot combos“ and thats it. She just feels a bit like genji that actually requires a lot of skill and thats why people assume psylocke is the same difficulty as genji
It’s how hard to master, not skill floor or how forgiving they are
An aim intensive hero like starlord that isn't forgiving clucking movement. Harder more easy to punish ult. To a no fall off shotgun hero, with sustain, invis, dashes, etc. People just show their bias. Cloak and dagger and Psylocke belong way lower. People are just thirsty. Period.
"Thor is the hardest tank to master"
Puts him under Hulk 😂
BWHAHAH this make me laugh out loud
For those who know, what about hawkeye and magneto make them A and B(above strange) respectively? Strange has different ways you can use the portals and you probably need to watch your dark magic meter
Spidey vs Hulk is def a hard question, both are basically the maxed out versions of their roles. Spidey is heavy mechanics Hulk is heavy game sense
I wonder if you have tried playing Hulk before, because Hulk is a very difficult mechanical hero. He doesn't shoot anything, so melee is easy, but jumping the correct distance to continue to stay on the enemy is mechanically awkward compare to pointing and clicking. Then, all of Hulk's abilities are skill shots, except his shield and ultimate within his ult. To maximize this guy, you have to land most of his skill shots while mid air, so that they come off cooldown enough to hit a person twice with the nuke, if you have the time before having to get out of the enemies back line. Then, knocking people out of the air is difficult. I can't tell you how many times I thought I chest bumped an enemy in the air, and didn't get the knockdown, probably because the 3rd person makes it awkward, as it's harder to perfectly square up the enemy in mid air when you have a right sided over the shoulder view. I am not a Hulk player, but I've been testing him out in some games, and I think he's hard, very mechanical. It's easy to hit shots with guns on level ground, strafing, but the inertia between the bottom and top of Hulk's leap, then back down, acceleration is changing speeds, and you have to flick some of those skill shots. Hulk is a mechanical monster dude. Hulk may have some comparisons to Winston, but he's a mechanical version. Hulk and Spidey both require game sense, and both have high mechanical requirements.
@ Im talking abt tank vs dps reward, dps need make more kill, tank need make more space, the end. Not that one requires something that the other doesn’t
Yeah pressing ur 3 buttons on Spider-Man is really mechanically demanding…
@@sqpenn Yeah, but it almost sounds like you think making space is inherently done by less mechanically demanding characters. I don't want to put words in your mouth though.
@@Eastra3 the mechanics are directed at different things, good point, in this case id say spidey less leeway for mistakes just bc healthbar, but thats not to say hulk cant get hard punished
You’re smoking crack with some of those rankings. I get your list and the tank rankings are wild.
You dont think cloak is S tier 😂. Lol yeah I was like "we putting moira in s tier". I would love for someone to give me one good reason why cloak that high.
@ I can see her being high, but on par with Loki and mantis is crazy.
@@surriad1140 Yeah I understand not all the game is aim its only a portion, but having a hero where not a single bronze player will have under 90% accuracy and comparing that to a hero whos ability revolves around getting crits with slow projectiles is laughable. Like whats so hard about her? Hitting her e in cloak form? Getting your team to use your healing dome? Like what could be such a high skill cap?
@ getting her escapes down is pretty hard. She’s not as easy as she looks, to be effective it takes alot of micro managing. Not that she’s braindead easy but neither terribly complex. An average difficulty is reasonably
I'd love to see a sister video to this which is what heroes are the easiest to play to a reasonable level - i.e. floor to be effective instead of ceiling. Up to you what you would consider a reasonable level.
Genuine question: where does one go to actually learn about your character's advanced tech? The only thing I can really find for my main is UA-cam videos that give the same tips every time
whose your main?
@heathen____ Cloak & Dagger
I feel that there’s no real guides about off angles and where to position on the map for characters
as a current celestial player.. BP being a tier is wild spiderman makes sense but saying 'bp can't be in there with spiderman' is crazy considering yes there's a lot less you can do with BP but miss a single dash reset you're back in spawn. Spiderman is more forgiving anyway considering if you mess up a combo you can zip out of there no problem just wait and dive again, Psylocke being harder than BP is insane considering she can just dash out PLUS her invis?!? And you can't forget how easy it is to use her one shot combo...
Imo as a Storm mains mastering storm is a scary concept as he's kinda a DPS support Hybrid and her need to juggle damage boost for speed boost along with her wind blades being very hard to hit at range of say low A in the hard to master List
spiderman so hard that after 60 hours of gameplay I've yet to play with a spiderman that has gone positive in k/d
Only thing i would change is wolverine to bottom S cause he has a crazy potential not many is using him to it’s potential rn, the fact that you can just jump into enemy backline and pull one hero with you to your team to get guarantee kill is crazy
Lets go, finally a video about this topic
Iron Man's difficulty mostly scales in his ability to stay alive in a fight.
actually agree on black panther, most of his skill is decision making, and once you get the mechanics down, theres not much you can improve on them
Putting Luna that low is wild af
People just thirsty for cloak. That's it. Its like saying ana is easier to master than moira. Luna has an extremely high skill ceiling, crazy dmg with crits, hard to hit cc, even her ult is harder. To know when to dmg boost. People too thirsty over pixels thats why cloak and psylocke so high.
Spiderman needs his own tier
I honestly think it mostly depends on how you play that makes a certain character hard to master/play itself.. (I personally found Spiderman really easy to play for me, even though he has a very high skill cap)
Magik bros be proud, we're strong 🙂
Gotta use 10x more effort for similar results 😭
@Phantom-bh5ru I frame dodge and punishing as hell is you mess up. One might even call her the dark souls of marvel rivals 😂
@@Phantom-bh5rutry playing spider man too, magik & Spider-Man gotta use 10x more effort to do what Hela can do with 1 left click
I feel like you playing Bucky skewed the tier list cause I think he is at minimum an A. He probably falls right where Hawkeye and BP are.
bucky is easy, he has instant reload, broken ult, and gains shield
this is a more complexity tier list and not a skill cap tier list because you sometimes forget or most likely haven't experienced fighting the 1% players enough and I must say that black panthers are almost untouchable and can kill pretty everyone when they are grouped together. I am not a black panther main but I've seen what they can do. Edit: Wolverine is also absolutely crazy too.
I'm a top 1% player and can play Panther myself to a GM level. I recognize how much better Panthers can get, but their is a limit to what is possible on the character past a certain mechanical threshold.
Hardest to get value tier list would be interesting. I was kinda stuck in bronze with Thor. Moved to Mantis and jumped to gold instantly while generally topping healing lists on the way. I just feel like I need to rotate the screen a lot, generally know where people are, and somewhat know when to push with ult. I don't feel like I need to understand the actual game very much at all as gold strategist. Very much unlike with Thor
@@fangiscool1 you have to manage your stacks as Thor making him kinda difficult and his 3 stack ability that gives him ranged autos makes him extremely vulnerable which a lot of people get baited by. Also I’d just say in general mantis is better than Thor and much easier to play than any of the tanks
@sonysdad4709 I think mechanically the stacks are relatively easy to be okay at. It's harder to know when to engage, how to de-engage, when to flank, etc. Mantis, at least at golf and below, takes all this complexity out of the game.
CLOAK IN S OR A TIER? We really putting moira that high 😂!!? Insane.
We out here.
What is so difficult about Cloak and Dagger.
I'm guessing it's mainly coming from cloaks E(the blind) and right click (the ally invis)
I’m assuming it’s the swapping mechanics, tracking 2 different sets of CDs, and knowing when to get good value out of Cloak’s shroud. Figuring out a good way to use their ult can be tricky too - it’s not as foolproof as Luna / Mantis. Also learning a bit of trigonometry so you can ricochet the healing daggers off walls to be able to heal people in hard-to-reach places can take some practice.
Although penni and cloak in a is crazy
W mills
Wolverine should definitely be in S..his playstyle is different compared to other char, specifically melee chars...I believe you need to master when to enter, who to focus on, and who to kidnap from the enemy team using his shift skill..he may not be as hard as spider or bp but he def an s tier in terms of mastery difficulty. Also bp for me should be in s..*own opinion*
I agree with most of the rest of the teir list
Who let bro rate??? Black panther there??? Rly…??????
penni is def A maybe even S she doesnt play like any other character especially compared to overwatch most tanks fall into the brawl poke or dive composition penni isnt really any of those shes very defense about holding space with utility
Trying to force a niche playstyle in a gamemode the character doesnt work on doesnt rly equate to skill. Just swap and you wont have to work as hard in a mode the character isnt built for. In short, disagree, when she works she works very well for very little effort, and when she doesn’t she doesn’t
@@sqpennwhat game mode isn't suited for her.
@@sqpenn how its a objective game? shes definitely better and easier on defense but still can be played very well even on stuff like attacking push because she holds space with ability's not herself thats very different and unique to how tanks are in overwatch that also equals you need skill to adapt to her unique playstyle and know when and were to to set up webs and mine and nests compared to most tanks just being glorified dps i actually think the tank design is much worse then overwatch there more dps with more health then having ability's to actually help them hold space thats why i like penni
@@codysorenson4298 convoy attack is basically the only one id object to running her
For example on 2099, defense is fire, but attacking with her over other tanks just doesnt make any sense
@@NecroticNeko my point is that theres no reason to play her “even on stuff like attackong push” bc youre making your job harder for no reason and that doesn’t mean the character is harder to play
nah hela c/d. ofc positioning is hard on every character but every ability is easy af to use and do damage
The disrespect on scarlet witch is INSANE 😭😭😭
Absolute cha ugh..
Not really. You don't even have to aim
@@codysorenson4298 it’s lowkey more about aiming with her than that. Yeah she doesn’t aim, but I’ve seen pretty shitty scarlet players.
She’s very squishy and her ult leaves her VERY exposed. Trust me bro. It’s more bout just the aim with her. As the skill ceiling of players grow you will barely use her ult or you have to be very careful and understand HOW and WHEN to use it. And she can’t push alone like psylocke and other DPS can because of how squishy you are. With scarlet is more about positioning and playing with the unit ya know?
@@OblivionDragmathe cope is crazy all for a character that takes zero brainpower to play
@@OblivionDragmaok just because she's not good doesn't mean she's hard to play. That's like saying Ganondorf in smash is hard to play because he's the worst character in the game
Hella is not b her escape ability probably one of the easiest to use. Her ult is the easiest ult to use in the game. Her other ability is the only difficult thing about her really imo she is d
No way Thor is harder to master than Groot.
What is your headphones?
I don't think you're using the term min/max correctly.
Helas daggers are so huge. She’s not that hard
U lost me when you placed Hulk in S and Panther in A. Stopped watching immediately.
Also what is the point of this channel when ur still making marvels content on your main? and its popping off too
Not everything I do can be main channel content. Highly edited and planned guides on the main but more funn/flexible content on this channel
What rank is this guy? This list has so many flaws
Silver
As number 10 leaderboard na Xbox I’m a thor 1 trick. He’s just so good
simple=/=easy
Scarlet witch may work fine in wood tier, but try and play her well against people who actually know how to play the game
Scarlet is worse at higher tiers bc her skill floor is so low and ceiling not far above, her ease of use directly effects her output and she literally cant keep up with other characters. No skill expression
This is true but in this case she is simple and easy. From what I can tell the only skill expression is the ultimate.
Thus likewise, bad at high tiers =/= hard
there is zero skill expression since the only thing to ever remotely think about on the character is when to ult but even in higher ranks you can easily just be shielded right before you ult anyways and then it's still brainless on top of her being so "countered" in better skilled lobbies is because she has such a low skill floor and ceiling since there isn't room for improvement you've maxxed out the character in like 5 games
Star-Lord and Psylocke are easy mode
Hahaha Flats callout?
early
first? Dang.
first
5:40 iron man is brain dead af, lol u just sit in the sky spamming down. If your objective is to hold a spot and that spot is in the open and the team pushes u and iron man hangs back in the sky obliterating you shit be annoying af. (I play tank, I don’t play dps, and I play with randoms, I get it: “just tell your dps to take care of iron man. Welll I’ve tried lol) that being said, I think from personal interactions with iron man he’s just too easy of a character to play.
I don't think he's difficult, but to say "sit in the sky spamming down" is ignorant. Try it out in a decent rank and see how well that goes.
@@-8h- yeah, I agree. Iron Man doesn't have the generous splash AOE dmg of a Pharah from OW. If you aren't hitting direct shots with Iron man, you aren't likely to kill anything, and is just charging the enemy support ults. To have a higher chance of hitting direct shots, you have to get closer to the enemy, and with the slow air strafe, he's easy to shoot down. Iron Man has huge damage output potential, but in most cases, for him to output that damage, he has to put himself at great risk. Also, unless you have a support that is pocketing you, your supports will often not have an idea where you are, as looking up around rooftops isn't always their instinct, so heals often come a little too late.
I understand where OblivionDragma is coming from, but Iron Man is just a skill check for DPS. Me personally, I have no problem killing Iron Man. A lot easier compared to Pharah's awkward free falling mixed with little boosts, make her way more erratic. Iron Man always hovers, so he goes slowly up and down, side to side. Noe jerky movement, unless he hits his boosters temporarily, but it takes half a second at least, before he is able to shoot or activate any ability after engaging boosters.
Hilarious because this isn't even the best playstyle to rely on at higher levels, at higher levels Ironman is playing as a backline duelist then sky spam playstyle.
In bronze maybe, open air is death in higher ranks
Hela in b ahaha wtf? Shes the easiest hero in the game