WILL THIS REPLACE THE COMPACT TRACTOR???
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Is the all-new Bobcat Small Articulated Loader (SAL) a replacement for a compact tractor?
Tractor Time with Tim tries to answer that question using Bobby to move muddy, hardpacked clay.
Special Thanks to Bobcat for loaning us the Bobcat SAL to review and test!
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single range, no pto, no 3pt hitch, no mid mount pto options, just.... no. Add to that the price vs compact tractor of same HP/weight and the answer is once again, simply no, it cannot replace a compact tractor.
I would agree with your statement, basically with the SSQA and available attachments plus twice the hydraulic flow rate, I think there is definitely a market for this unit. If someone does more loader work, this is a very good option.
@@gregnewlin1074 I agree that there may be a market for them for something, but IMHO without comparing prices and exact specs, I don't know if this would be that much better than a regular wheeled or tracked skid steer with similar hp/lift capabilities. The main advantage it "might" have is better tire wear.
* please keep in mind my orig comment was in reference to the title of the vid. It will not replace a compact tractor.
See a lot of landscapers starting to switch to compact tractors instead of skid steers because the machine is half the price and the attachments are a 1/3. The only advantage I can see the mini loader has over a skidsteer is it wouldn't rip up grass when turning
Exactly. I just bought another compact. Solis 24 for 12k. I priced this machine before hand and they wanted 30k
@Dave. This bucket has teeth.
At around $40K and missing some basic tractor features I would say for most folks it is NOT a replacement for a compact tractor. The other thing to keep in mind with "construction" equipment from manufacturers like Bobcat is that not only is the machine itself very expensive but everything associated with it will cost more than comparable items for a small tractor. That includes attachments, accessories and maintenance supplies.
there pretty well made for town sidewalks and maintance
Honestly I would prefer a terramite over this thing.
Ive never seen one cheaper than $70k...
$40k…at least last year. Who knows now with inflation!
Had an older version that we bought while stationed at the Coast Guard Base in Philly. Used it mainly for snow removal and sweeping parking lots. Little thing was a kick in the pants, everyone fought to operate it.
Since 1991, Avant Tecno has manufactured more than 45,000 loaders at their manufacturing plant in Ylöjärvi, Finland. With more than 190 different attachments, Avant is a highly multi-functional loader.
Not replacement for a tractor, but good for it's intended purpose...working at nurseries or material sites loading loose material or mulch...brush/logs with a grapple...new construction sites dealing with loose material...snow removal...landscaping operations.
I’ve had a lot of people ask my opinion on this. Hadn’t even seen it until i just watched your video. Thanks for sharing!
If it had more power, and a rear 3 point and PTO then yeah it’s extendable loader and articulations ability could replace the farm tractor in any power class. But missing 2 out of 4 core components ( articulation, extendable loader yes, PTO and 3 point)? No. However, what if our loaders were extendable? Lol😁👍
Nice machine! Great in tight spaces. It won't replace a tractor as it lacks a rear PTO and 3 point hitch. Definitely needs a hi/lo range transmission.
Tim, I noticed that you were doing all the right things to load the bucket but doing them separately.
You need to be able to: Push, Curl, and Lift all at the same time.
Smooth co-ordination is the secret, you'll get it with practice.
One thing that is challenging is the hydrostatic. Large loaders are torque converter drive which is much better for pushing into a pile.
Looks like a great little machine though, have fun!
That machine doesn't have enough power to do multiple functions simultaneously. The only two functions it can do simultaneously is foward/reverse and steering. If you try to even lift a empty bucket and also curl the bucket at the same time the engine will severely bog down.
It a replacement for a skid steer? I’ve used lots of Avants (finish version) they are great as they don’t make half the mess of a skid steer.
💥 Yep, you’re sure right about the two range necessity. Great machine for a garden nursery or snow removal for small parking lots.
*Keep on tractoring!*
I'll stay with tractors.
By the way, your channel is one of my favorites.
I’ve noticed if I click on the three dots in the top, right corner of the video, then go down to Playback Speed, then change that setting to 1.75, you work much faster Tim. 👍
Am I that boring? :-)
@@TractorTimewithTim defiantly not.
But since you are sitting there, reading replies, do you look for comments from viewers about ideas for future videos? I have several, one in particular but I do not wish too be presumptions.
@@TractorTimewithTim okay, I decided to just post my question about washing and detailing the 1025r.
I have seen videos, including yours, about cleaning the outside of the tractor using degreaser, the Good Works video about tires, but what about under the hood, or any other sensitive areas? Can I spray “Gunk” or “Simple Green” or similar anywhere under the hood and then spray it off with a high pressure sprayer or garden hose?
Any areas I need to avoid cleaning?
My boat with inboard / outboard, I detail the motor and engine compartment 2x/year, polish all non-metallic parts except the belt until the entire thing shines. Can I do that to the tractor?
I’m really no expert ok detailing. I don’t take the time to go over the tractor inside and out.
I get it so dirty so often that this would take half of my time.
Having said that, I don’t think you will hurt the paint with degreasers, etc. I know the WD40 specialist cleanse and degreaser that we used to promote on this channel works very well.
What a great unit! I can see all kinds of uses for it, especially utilizing the almost unlimited skid steer attachments with much better visibility. And wiith the high flow hydraulics even more applications for powered attachments. I can’t give up my Johnny 4, but that sure would be a great addition. Looking forward to more videos and more possible uses. Blessings to you and Christy!
If you ever want to try a state of the art one out, I can set you up with one of my trusted equipment loaning lenders for a month for cheap. Just reply here.
I think that Bobcat and Ventrac could really learn a lot from each other. Can you imagine if that Bobcat had all of the features of a Ventrac, wow !!!
Bobcat bought Steiner
FOR MOVING DIRT I WILL TAKE THE BOB CAT
@@alphonsotate2982 Oh no! My Ventrac could easily out power this, plus my Ventrac is 32hp turbo diesel. Watch my video on my channel of my Ventrac moving dirt.
Nice looking machine but I think it's more for light weight bulk material. The two things I noticed it doesn't tear up ground like a skid loader or a track skid loader and it looks like you could turn it over easy. Did it feel stable hard turning? It's definitely got a place in the equipment line up. Thanks for sharing
As a small tractor guy I would suggest the technique of poking the pile with the corner of the bucket. Don't lift with the corner, but use the corner to break up the pile a bit before trying to push straight in. I am also surprised that the machine can't hunker down and spin the wheels slowly. I would also suggest that you mash the drive to get the speed up for ramming the pile, but then ease off as the engine boggs down. That is just my experience from pre 90's cub cadets.
Tim,
You might want to check with your county or township for grants for your water management. Our county here in Georgia has grants residents can apply for if you have a drainage issues from county drains on your property. My neighbor applied for one for our ditch that runs into the lake in our subdivision. Just a thought.
A hammermill drum mower on the front of that thing would be fantastic in the summer, especially with the telescoping boom! You could reach way under tree branches and down the pond bank.
1 HST range + no mid mount mower + no rear PTO = No thanks, I'll pass. I don't see it's purpose. Either buy a skid loader for more capacity or a compact tractor for more versatility. Nice to see it in action though, thanks Tim.
I wonder if there's enough flow for a snow blower attachment. That would be fantastic close quarters snow removal, sidewalks etc.
IT CAN RUN A SNOW BLOWER
Their is we have one sb150
I was at the Bobcat dealership the other day & they had one in the shop with a snow blower attached perfectly sized for it, they were using it to clear snow around their lot said it works awesome but didn't see it for myself.
Where I live a lot of the local tree contractors are using them for picking up the logs ,and stump grindings.
We use one of these loaders for cleaning out cow manure and loading a silage feeder wagon
Hi Tim, I’ve moved an awful lot of dirt with a bobcat tool cat 5500. Basically a golf cart with a bucket. One key to moving packed dirt/dredging with this is to bucket up/blade, drive right up to the pile and “bucket down/drag back” into the pile. Then scoop. It simply doesn’t have the “weight and ramming speed/traction and power” to scoop the pile like a fulls size loader. Looking at an Avant 640 myself.
I did the same thing with the pedals when my dad got his 1025 because im so used to the hydrostat on the lawn mower. Honestly i prefer the rocker style pedal with reverse under my heel.
Rocker pedals are my preference for loaders as well. I've briefly run a 2-pedal hydrostatic loader (6000lb ROC EIMCO) and didn't love the controls, they're less than ideal for brief directional changes/corrections like when loading a truck. I do own a hydrostatic 5-ton truck with 2-pedal controls, they're better suited for it than a loader.
We tried one earlier this year, a cab machine same model. Some one had mentioned that it might be good for loose material, but when we tried it on a pile of dirt or rock it would stall. It doesn't have enough power to power the machine. It is too restricted, going up a hill is another problem, it has soo little power that if you use the loader while driving up a hill it will stall. It is a very good try, but there are other brands that have it pin pointed. We have an avant personally and after using a 420, that is what you can compare it too. The pedals are too narrow, and so close together that if you have boots and are a big guy you might press both at the same time. It is a good machine, but it definitely needs improvement.
Good review...I agree with your points.
@@TractorTimewithTim Bobcat is definitely on the right track going forward with this machine. It does need more improvements, i like that bobcat has dealers all over the place so service is easy. If you are interested in different brands avant is definitely one to check out. They have some of the best lift capacity to weight ratio out of the mini skids. I love our avant and i find it allot better than mini skids to move material and an all around better machine i think mini loaders will definitely be a big hit on the market. The mini skids are good, but if i need to move materials for hours i would prefer to sit, rather then stand.
So do you think the avant is better? Just started looking at these machines and those are the 2 brands Iv started looking at. Thanks.
Look at Avant, Giant, and CAST before you decide.
@@TractorTimewithTim thank you.
I have seen others take the bucket and drag the top down in front and then scoop that up. It loosens the stack that way. I like the track versions. Wheels tend to dig.
We considered a similar machine for our farm made by Avant. Experienced farmers advised we need a machine with a PTO shaft. However the telescopic boom on these machines would be extremely useful when managing trees.
Why do you need a PTO when you have sufficient hydraulics to run hydraulic attachments?
The main reason to have a PTO is spraying trees. Macadamia trees can grow over ten meters tall. A strong PTO is needed to power a pump powerful enough to pump spray up so high. Many macadamia farmers have a tractor rated at 80HP at the PTO for spraying.
I hope my trees do not grow so big. I will try to prune them down. Plus drones are starting to be used to spray trees from above. So hopefully I won't have to buy a big arse tractor.
Sounds like you might be a good candidate for our ‘visitme’ idea mentioned near the end of this episode!
Hydraulics are really snappy and probably tim even wished it had 35 horses and not 25 ponies
These small loaders shine doing tree work, I have 3 small older loaders and I actually have video of a r310 kubota on my channel. They not heavy, fast and idea in people yards.
@Tsunauticus III I checked them out, they look sweet but they not for me, I sure they differently have their place.
Looks like that machine is designed to move loose material only. It may work well in conjunction with a backhoe or mini ex on that project, using the hoe to loosen and stack the dirt.
Give me a full size 4wd backhoe instead.
The bucket needs teeth
@huck maybe watch a bit further before making rash comments. (The bucket HAS teeth)
@@TractorTimewithTim I feel stupid lol . Look up Ferrari tractors .They are really neat .
With any machine , you need to use the correct implement for the job you are doing. That bucket seems to be good for lighter material. Tim is using the wrong bucket for that job. The machine is only going to get better and better as new versions come out. It is the future.
They need add low and high range instead of one and also going to 4 foot bucket will make a difference in pushing
Great video as always Tim and Christy. Absolutely love the channel and the projects that you share with your viewers. Getting close to time that those beans beside you there get harvested.
Thanks! Yes, wish they would get them harvested.
TIM. When using a loader to dig anything, I usually play with the "TILT" lever, to wiggle your way into the material. It does help.:)Sweet machine. Not a replacement though.To be fair, this project could use a smaller bucket.
Great video Mr!! Enjoyed the info. I know not everyone will be totally into bob. I think there is opportunity here to come! Thank you Kristy and Tim.
I think that is a nice "little" articulated loader. But can't replace the compact tractor. I see it as a bit underpowered as far as breakout force with that big bucket. A lower gear ratio as you say might be the answer, if the tires could get traction. Possibly a shuttle shift lever to go from digging, to travel would be helpful as well. All that adds $$$ to the cost of the machine. I see this machine being a way for mulch/gravel/landscape supply dealers to get a price increase. They used to have only the huge Cat or JD articulated loaders which would overflow an 8' pickup truck bed with a single scoop. Now for the same money, you can't see the scoop top over the side of the bedrails in the same truck, as the bucket on that machine is way smaller than original! Now with this smaller Bobcat machine, they can dole out an even smaller scoop for the same money. Granted a smaller machine would help them in circumventing the mulch/gravel/stone yards which are not as big...
Tim, if you had a set of forks you could put on you could use them to break up the piles of dirt a little at a time and then put the bucket on and scoop er up. Maybe Christy could do it with the forks on Johnny. BTW Christy, you are allowed to peek around the camera and say hi.
We have forks for it...did you miss the flagpole episode?
I have a “Big Dipper” from the 60s im guessing. Same concept but just rear steer not articulated. Great for loader and fork jobs. Wasnt meant for digging. But cant beat the ease and maneuverability of that set up!
It would be interesting to see the pond pumped out and worked on
What do you think requires more training to drive/ what is easier to drive? Vinny, or Bobby?
I believe two speed transmission and 30 hp would make a huge difference! HST still nice to operate. I believe compact tractor still better for every day use for the basic land owner ok great videos!!
I think 50hp :-). But they wouldn’t be able to fit 50hp engine in that small place!
We used Junior as a wheelbarrow when pouring our forms for the camp we are building, firewood hauling and transportation down the hill.
The hydraulic pump relief valve needs to be redesigned to reduce engine overloading.
Does it have have 1 or 2 pumps? One for drive wheels and second for the cylinders?
It sounds like it is struggling .
It is hard to believe that they built that machine without a two range hydrostatic transmission or maybe another 25hp. It seems like it is not very well matched unit hydraulic capacity/hp.
Very true.. But we don't know the intended purpose of the design.
It looks like it's only stalls it when he pushed the pedal all the way down.
It's like saying you need to regear your axles because you keep stalling out while starting in 4th gear.
I'm "negatively" surprised how expensive this little machine is. (I won't compare it to my telehandler, but:) Gears really do a miracle in the pushing force for any loader. Still I understand that the Bobcat is a smaller machine not meant for earth moving (let's take a machine like the jcb 1cx).
I’m sure it has its applications, moving heavy wet dirt may not be it...
Try out an avant mini loader, They are stronger and have to “gears”
We have a MT85 at work and they share the same attachment plate. We demoed one and used our grapple bucket on it and we were very impressed. We want to try it again with our power rake and brush hog for it, plus try it with our snowblower we have, it's a cold ride standing on the MT85 in the winter!
Check to see if there is a small switch on the floor near the pedals that reverse those pedals so they’re the same as the tractor. Love you two!!
For the average homeowner tractor owner, like me, and I'd wager the bulk of your viewers, this wouldn't be a replacement for a compact tractor. It appears to be a commercial machine to me, well suited for a small business like yours and other commercial applications. Anther tool in the toolbox. Especially considering the price and functionality compared to a sub or compact tractor.
Like you said, it's unique.
Yesterday I went from forking to grappling to brush hogging to moving stone to mowing grass with my 1025R..., The bobcat couldn't replace that.
JustinHEMI these articulated loaders can do all these jobs. However the implements are expensive.
@@kdegraa cost was clearly part of my comment. Also, I'm not seeing attachments that can replace everything I do.
IT CAN RUN A BOB CAT COMMERCIAL BUSH HOG TAKE OUT 2 TO 3 INCH TREES NO PROBLEM LOOK UP BOB CAT ATTACHMENTS AND WATCH WHAT COMERCIAL MACHINES ARE ABOUT
Nice machine 👍
Great lifting capacity but it definitely needs low range
At 24 HP, I don't' think it is in the same class as compact tractors, more like a subcompact but with much better hydraulic flow.
Yep, doesn’t directly map to any tractor. Bigger in some areas, smaller in others.
John deer 2305 compact tractor is only 23hp
You should look into more of bobcats compact tractors.
With a low range, I would use one. I have a CT120 Bobcat and the low range is a must.
Hi Tim and Christy nice video i think i would bring Jonny down and loosen that hard soil with the backhoe but i cant see it replacing the compact tractor but never say never
Looks like your having to much fun while working. Nice machine.
A collaboration video with Dirt Perfect working with Tim seems to be in order. You may have to go through his agent “ man behind the scenes” to broker the terms.
I have spoken with Dirt Perfect several times!
Frankly, hydrostatic transmissions are great for mowing and plowing snow. But for heavy ground engaging work, I prefer a gear transmission. Many full-size farm tractors and loader-backhoes utilize shuttle-shift gear transmissions, which are probably the best of both worlds.
I wish John Deere could come up with something smaller than a 244L because it'd be good competition for the Bobcat. If you need a good small excavator Tim, a 50G might be what you need in addition to your backhoe for the pond dig. Could it be a good choice for a homeowner with a garden tractor/zero turn mower but they have jobs requiring hydraulic implements on a regular basis?
One hydro range? What the heck....... This machine could be so much more.
Tim, did you get any other attachments with it to demo? It looks like it could be very handy in certain situations. Maybe in/ around a horse barn or cattle operation. The tighter turning radius is nice. Somebody else mentioned it would make a nice snowblower. The cab looks really nice. Could you put it side by side with Johnny to show the size comparison and turning radius. Thanks for a great channel!
Forks, bucket, stump grinder, and a bucket with grapple.
Absolutely love this channel
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement!
Seems light on horsepower to me and for the price, I think a compact tractor is a better deal.
Think you lost me at only single range! 😉
THE HYDRAULIC TRANSMISSION HAS A GEAR BOX ATTACHED TO IT WHICH ALLOW YOU TO CHANGE THE GEAR RATIOS
@@alphonsotate2982 I understand you “could” change the ratios but you will never stop in the middle of job and swap them out. Some would argue that two ranges isn’t enough let alone a single range. The flexibility of machine is increased by having different ranges.
I can see the purpose of the Bobcat small articulated loader... oddly, loader work is not it. Forks only machine. Otherwise, worthless. Sorry to say.
Agreed, the digging force (or lack thereof) was unimpressive. It may be better with a narrower bucket.
Where this would shine is grapple work or tree & brush work with a BMG, (Branch Manager Grapple.) Watch some videos where these small wheel loaders are used by tree services with BMG Grapples making quick work of brush fed into brush Chippers & removing logs.
Tim. Take a look at this. Sub/Sub compact tractor on you tube. For when it’s to big for a shovel and hoe, but to small of an area for a tractor. This is a Mighty little tractor ! This has it all in a little compact/compact set up! L
Garden tractor Brinly box blade, front plow, attachments, implements.
You are wanting us to research subcompact tractors on UA-cam????????????????????????
Welcome to our channel!!
What you guys do is great! I’m certain I’ve seen every video you have put out on UA-cam! The video I’m replying to at the end you said to send information about what kind of jobs and equipment we are using. I went to your web sight but I guess I was unable to figure out form form on the webpage that I was supposed to fill out concerning my set up I am using to show you guys. Thank you and God bless!
tractortimewithtim.com/visitme
That was a nice demonstration. If you have a backhoe on one of your tractors you could loosen it up with that first or the big tractor could do most of the main moving and do cleanup with the Bobcat. I know you are just showing what this loader can do for them though.
I see that as the perfect snow removal machine. While you still have it I hope it snows out your way just to see what it will do. Best Regards, Jay
I think Sally is a better nickname for this little piece of equipment :P . Great new tool.
You might be right!
I think people needed to see Johnny try digging into this old pile with vegetation mixed in to see how much better this is than even a 3 series would’ve been. When a lot of attachments are made for this all tractors would have over it would be “tillage”
Could this replace a skid steer? We are thinking about getting a new one
You should try and demo a tobroco giant machine. They’re great, really strong and top quality👍
I'd rather opt for their toolcat 5610 machines. all the features of this, plus an enclosed cab, rear 3 point and PTO allows much more utility. Always wanted one for winter snow use. Blower on the front and an angle blade for the rear.
I want one!! My wife is going to try to block your videos. You already convinced me to buy my 1023 Johnny. Bless you brother 🙏
Is there any chance you guys could do a video or include in a video yous going round and greasing the tractors and servicing them its nice to see it done on the smaller stuff instead of the big equipment i work with
We have lots of maintenance and ‘greazing’ videos. Here is one: New Grease Gun Technology! Greasing The 1025R/1023E Drive Shaft
The cab being on the forward section causes the operator to swing back and forth over the rear section. I wasn't able to get comfortable with that 25 years ago on Hough and International loaders. Maybe on a smaller scale it would be an easier sensation to ignore.
Thanks Tim! Really well done - good honest overview of the machine. Cheers!
awesome to see what i was part of building get used
I have thought about getting Maya one of these to replace her power wheel Escalade I told my rep they need to make it a lot stronger.
It has a receiver on the back you could put the heavy hitch receiver weight bar in the back of it and put weights on it
It probably wouldn’t have enough power to even drive!
Does it have PTO? Does it have a straight hitch and 3 pt lift? If not there is no way this would replace the compact tractor. You need to think about these things before throwing out a question like that.
I would like to see a flailmover mounted connected to that front hydraulic. Looks like a competitor to JCB you were driving a while back
ua-cam.com/video/n6ODygL-6Z4/v-deo.html
Hey Tim, I hope 🙏 😀 😊 😉 you are keeping healthy and safe.
I guess that when you work a machine to the max then stalling will be a problem with any machine. Speed over ground is what you get and no need for a low range. For the work you were doing this worked very well moving the hard packed clay. About how long were you working to move the pile?
I worked for 3 hours ...maybe a bit more.
It was a huge amount of dirt for that little loader.
Weird how you sit in front of the articulation instead of the back. Reminds me of an old case wheel loader
That arrangement is real uncommon. I mostly see it in old Wagner underground loaders.
Do we know what that was truly built for possibly for snow removal????
Would of liked some comparison info about hydraulic capabilities for running attachments.
Probably to heavy for spongy ground.
Put a tooth bar on that bucket and it will cut better.
Next time, try breaking the top off the pile. That will loosen up the sticky dirt and help you get full buckets.
This is more of a in between mini track loader or full size skid steer option than alternative to a tractor in my opinion. It is more of a dedicated loader /tool platform that has quick on & off the machine convenience like a mini track loader has. With the side door allowing easy in & out access compaird to a regular skidsteer/ track loader. It has lifting/hydraulic performance between the mini & full size skidsteer/ track loaders. It's a nice middle ground alternative with its biggest advantage being that it's the least dstructive/turf frendly also in title turning situations the rear wheels fallow the fron wheels quite precisely with out cutting corners like a tractor would.
I am told Avant has power issues as well but what the sales guys show you to do is use your extendable boom to dig into the pile. They don't have enough power through the wheels so you have to use your hydraulic power to dig. A very different perspective from a normal loader tractor or skid loader. After more seat time, you will have to learn how this machine works best for the design that it is. I know a lot of guys that absolutely love the Avant loaders but they also say you cannot compare them to a skid loader otherwise you will be disappointed. They have there strong points and there weak points
Bobcats previous version of that with a backhoe was also underpowered and a little tippy. I am guessing they solved one of those issues with this model. Really a tight quarter’s machine for small projects.
Bobcat is designing the tractors but as before they are being built by Daedong makers of Kioti. They look like a white Kioti, I don't know about the loader but I would assume Daedong are building these as well. Run somemore rpm on the loader Tim you will like the way it works. I had my Kioti at the dealer last Monday as I popped the bead on the tire and lost my rim guard. My dealer was pretty surprised I have 325hrs on it in just over 2 years. Your loader has about the dame lift capacity as my CK2610HST which has a 66" wide bucket.
Used to call em suicide knobs back in "the day". I'm on the fence on this Bobcat.
It got disqualified within the first minute, could not stand the beep every time I back up ! It does look like a lot of power in a small package though.
Just unplug it
Did you dig out the pond yet? My dad and I love your channel. I'm in Evansville, he's in Robinson. I bet we could help!
Might be interested in the help. No, we haven’t dug it out yet.
You should do a detailed topo survey of you land. That should help you understand water flow.
You would think Bob Cat would be nice enough to let you test a nice mini excavator too.