You've articulated this so well. So I review books on Tumblr (lol there shouldn't be any people on Tumblr) and I've started getting hate when I say anything negative about a few authors. And I mean ANYTHING. For example, I made the comment that I felt that some of the narration for a particular book just wasn't for me and was told it's because I hate the author. Another was for a manga that I just frankly didn't like the art style. A commentor told me I was stupid and didn't understand art.
I have two specific experiences which always come to mind regarding this topic: 1. I once recommended my favorite book (Till We Have Faces) to one of the Marines I was deployed with. He vented at me for AN HOUR (which I was happy to let him do!) because he was so upset with the book. We had WILDLY different experiences with it. 2. One of my closest friends (smart, awesome, well-read) recommended the BOOK OF HER HEART AND SOUL to me. I hated it with every fiber of my being. HATED. I still feel angry when I think about that book. But I still respect my friend's opinions and tastes! I love passionate discussion; it shouldn't be shut down. Excellent video!!!
That's interesting in #1. The person was so engaged with the book that they had an hour of stuff to say about it. It shows the book really made them feel something. As they say, the opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference.
@@patrickliu7179 I completely agree! And even that book I HATED, I felt so strongly because it had beautiful prose, but I felt like the theme was wildly mishandled and disconnected from reality and didn't ultimately come to a meaningful fruition. I CARED.
Fantastic breakdown Tori! If I get offended at someone critiquing something I love, the mature thing to do is to analyze WHY they made me mad. If I feel the need to go on the offensive, I’m part of the problem.
I agree! I actually have learned to enjoy breaking down the "why" books make me feel the way they do. And I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives on them.
This really illustrates how great book clubs can be? There are several books my own club has read that I didn't enjoy on my read through, but that I left the meetup with a better understanding/different perspective on the book as a whole or the parts that I may not have liked on first read through. It's also totally ok to enjoy a book WHILE recognizing the failings within the storytelling, and knowing that those might prevent another person from their enjoyment.
Great video, Tori! It makes me think of the "Opposites Attract" Bookclub between Merphy and Amber Alise, which shows how friends can widely disagree about the same books, and it doesn't have to be toxic. In fact, it can be respectful and fun! Much respect and support for all your book thoughts and experiences, my friend!
I love their discussions! It's very book-focused and lighthearted rather than being pointed and personal. I love it. Thank you so much for watching! I absolutely love our discussions on books, whether we agree or not!
I love this video Tori because you express a lot of what I've experienced in the book community. This has happened to me several times when I've mentioned I don't like Hobb. I was actually discussing this very issue with a friend yesterday that I'm tired of people dismissing me if I disagree with them about a beloved author of theirs or the flip side people implying there is something wrong with me for liking an author that they don't like. It leaves no room for discussion or exploring the reasons why we have different opinions on those authors. I've never understood why some take it so personally that you don't like their favourite author or book. It doesn't invalidate their experience and it also doesn't take into account the fact that we all have wildly varying experiences and tastes. We can't all like the colour pink, right? How dull would life be without variety.
2:51-3:07 This doesn’t one for one relate to the topic of your video but what you said here made me think of my reading experience of Sarah Chorn’s novella “A Sorrow Named Joy.” The protagonist was written in such a way that they reminded me of myself and how I see the world. Their way of perceiving the world made me think “oh this character has this X diagnosis that I do, I’m so invested in this character because I see so much of myself in them.” When it was revealed what their true identity was, I almost put the book down because it felt to me as though the author was saying something that was wrong about me. I had to take a step back then and realize just how much I had put of myself into this protagonist had blinded me to what the author’s intentions were with what Chorn wanted the reader to get from the story.
Great video, Tori, and your example of how Derri handled your not liking something that is incredibly special to her is the example we should all follow. Not all books are for all people, and when we put the authors or the books themselves on a level beyond reproach, we're some of the worst gatekeepers there can be.
Great video Tori! I have also struggled with the inverse as well where people are upset I have a positive experience with a book they dislike. People can be strange.😅 I think engaging in book communities and getting to know the people on the screen or in the comments helps others learn how be to treat people more kindly who they disagree with. It’s a lot easier to be nasty when there is relational distance.
That's a great video. You're absolutely right - in a world where we can talk to almost everyone on the planet, we've lost the art of respectfully listening to other people.
Very well said. Parasocial psychology is so interesting - but it can be dangerous and unhealthy. I'm always impressed by people who have the courage to put their opinions out onto the internet (especially women) because the fear of backlash stops me a lot of the time.
I always appreciate your thoughtful discussions and love the way you approached this one ❤One of my favorite things about this community is how we can respectfully disagree with each other about books, and it’s a shame when some commenters try to ruin that. And it’s always someone who usually doesn’t engage with our content or is stumbling upon our channels for the first time 🤦🏽♀️
I’ve also been surprised by my opinions that get the positive/negative responses. I fully expected to get hateful comments from saying I don’t like The Name of the Wind, but they were all kind lol! Instead I got some a couple years ago by saying I didn’t want to read Terry Pratchett 🤣
You are so right! I actually seek out opposing opinions on books I loved. It usually provides a broader understanding of the book which is, to me, an important way of understanding, like you said, the wider concepts of the book culturally or socially, etc. 💙
Absolutely brilliantly said, to no one's surprise ;) I have always been a bit confused by why people get SO offended when someone else doesn't love a story the same way they did, especialy because I tend to sway almost a bit too far in the other direction. Like, when I see a more critical review of a book that I loved or just had a great time with, I almost always feel like they have the right opinion and then have a really hard time holding onto my own experience. Loved hearing you talk through this! And thanks for the rec about that TED talk, I am gonna watch it immediately!
What an amazing video Tori! Your insights here are absolutely wonderful and thought-provoking. The positive yet candid way you approach this subject is amazing. So well done! Disagreements about the same books are healthy, normal, and more than appropriate. There is ZERO requirement for it to be contentious. I think we as a community, overall, as you indicate, can rise above any subjective differences of opinion about what brings us together as a community, which ultimately is books. We need to remember that - our common bond is more uniting then divisive. Thank you so much for making this video.
This is an excellent video! I hope more readers can also accept that favorite authors are free to write their own stories that may not fit with reader expectations and that those writers don’t deserve “hate” or personal attacks in return either. I’ve been seeing that online lately, too. I think part of that issue is a similar problem with some readers taking their personal experiences of a book to a slightly different extreme. Authors really don’t owe us anything. They’re just people. I love a good negative review that explains personal experiences-that’s how I find new perspectives on books, or discover that I’m not alone. But save the “hate”. Life’s rough enough without sending that energy to fellow readers and storytellers. 😊
I feel this 100% and appreciate you making this video. I haven’t talked about Lonesome Dove a lot on my channel because I knew I would probably get hate. I didn’t get along with it very well either. I think it’s nice to be reminded that reading is subjective and we need to respect other’s opinions.
What's so on point about this is you can replace "author" or "book" with movies, tv shows, politics, etc etc... objectivity and open-mindedness is a valuable trait for life and society.
Well said Tori. Although I believe the disagreement and disrespect issue is a lesson, the whole country, and not just those on the Internet, needs to learn.
Absolutely agree, and very well articulated!! Sadly, I think it's going to get much worse before it gets any better, despite how much I wish cooler heads would prevail. All we can do is try, and be the kind of people we want to see more of in the world, and it will help teach some how to have more grace about their opinions. People repeat the cycle when they think it's the only option to be heard. That is one nice thing about being in smaller communities online... I recently posted a fairly critical review of ACOTAR (read for a friend, similar to your experience with Bride), and I was so uplifted by how the people who felt very different amidst my community were still so accepting and understanding of my viewpoint, simply because I also tried to see theirs. We owe that to each other! And that shows me what I think IS the problem with these vitriolic people who leave comments like that: they have nothing to lose if they do. At least IRL there are some repercussions, usually, for being very toxic, and in smaller online communities where you could be ejected, and you value people's relationships... But these folks only relate to one community, and that's the "people who think like me". And with the size of the internet, it's easy to go a long time before ever encountering someone who doesn't, if your algorithm is trained well enough. What a pickle we've created! I hope that this doesn't happen to you too frequently, and Im glad it's a minority of folks. But oof. I really wish we all could be as lovely as Derri :)
I loved this. I have noticed, as well, how divisive a lot of online spaces have become in general and it really does make me sad. I follow so many of my different hobbies online, sports, music, books, even collecting dice, and they all seem to have a over lying opinion that "If you don't agree with me, you are wrong. And not only are you wrong but you are a bad person because of it, and you should be canceled." (basically). I truly hope that as we are pushed to the brink of collapse that more people take a step back and look at the situation as a whole and realize that it's still ok to be different. It is actually beneficial for us to be different and to interact with people who are and think differently than ourselves.
This is such an important video. I'm glad you're bringing light to it and it's such a shame you have to. I don't remember specifically which video it was, but on a tier ranking one recently I commented that I didn't realize how much our tastes varied until then and I think it is because you are always so nuanced and respecful when discussing books you dislike. In a world of exaggerated rants, it's very refreshing. I'll admit, there are times when I do feel hurt by people disliking things that I emotionally connect with, but it is *so easy* to just click away in those instances. If I'm not in the brainspace for a discussion or debate, I get out of there! I think that's another issue with online communities, that not responding is seen as "losing an argument." Stepping away to take a breath and explore the issue before coming back with a clear head is sometimes necessary to have a productive discussion and that's okay
Great video! So sorry that was your experience, Tori! It hurts a little if someone doesn't love the book you love, at least in my case, but if they don't like it, I'm just sad they didn't have my enjoyment. The trashtalk I can do without, when they say 'He's famous, he can take it' when NOT having read the book, that does get seriously on my nerves. Someone wants to say their say, that's fine! But a lot of people are going after authors they have not/barely read just saying things because it's popular to say them. Just wish more people would sometimes say: It wasn't for because ... instead of tearing things down for the sake of it and for clicks
Excellent video, Tori! I wholeheartedly agree about the problems that come with celebrity culture, as well as the necessity of open, respectful dialogue - even (maybe especially) about the things we love
so agree. it's super toxic for the author too. especially when some readers are slightly disappointed in a book like W&T (which i loved but many didn't). they react as if the author personally spited them 🤣
I think that's another part of the problem. Because if authors get put on such high pedestals, they basically can only fail expectations. And love can turn into hate pretty fast.
Agree. After seeing comments in some of the negative booktube reviews for W&T, I have to wonder why Rothfuss and Martin would ever finish their series? How could they do anything but pull down the wrath of their fandoms for not living up to expectations. That’s a lot of pressure. I would think the scorn they receive for not finishing a series is better than from what “fans” can do if they are let down. With fans like that, who needs enemies?
I have not had that many people be upset and rude because I disliked a book they liked which I appreciate. I have actually had the opposite happen more, which to me is even weirder. Which is people lashing out, and being rude and dismissive when I like a book, or series they dislike.
Same, thank you for saying this. Although Tori's experiences are of course valid and many of her points are still important, I feel this is much more accurate to what I see actually consistently happening in this community.
I often say to my husband that I am not big enough fan of anything, because I don't mind when somebody doesn't like my favourite books. 😂 I like finding reviews of my favourites, both positive and negative, because it is fun to know what other people think. On the other side, I do look for positive reviews of the books I did not like, because I always try to understand why others like it, and then I may end up at least appreciating those books for all the good others see in them. Sometimes even I don't like the things that I like, so there's nothing wrong with that. 😅
I'm the same way! I enjoy hearing a variety of opinions on my favorite or least favorite books. I'm fascinated by the way everyone's reading experience can be so different, and how a book lands based on someone's preferences or perspective.
@@ToriTalks2 Yes, we are different people and we like different things. Nobody is mad that not everyone is in love with the same person they are. Or that they don't drink the same drinks, or eat the same food. Why, then, they need for everyone to love the same books? I admire how calm you and everyone I watch are regarding those comments. It can't be easy. ❤
Excellent video. I think one of the best things about people is that we are all different and like different things. It’s great to learn about one another from these differences.
This is such a good video on this topic. Personally, I've recently read a series with a pretty large fandom and I absolutely hated the last book because of the main character. I related heavily to the main character from the previous books in the series and the main character from the last book had spent the entire series abusing the original main character so even though I tried to go into the last book with an open mind, I still hated that those same behaviors and patterns were not only repeated but seemed to be brushed off by other characters. I ended up giving the book a low rating due to my personal experience and, when I saw a video with someone expressing similar thoughts, I commented that I agreed with their opinions on the book. What scared me was that other people who loved the book then replied to my comment and told me that I was a selfish and horrible person who has never experienced trauma or mental health issues (which I can assure you, I have) and went on to bash my character rather than engage in a discussion about the book itself. The fact that people don't seem to understand that people can see books and characters differently and that it isn't a basis to harass someone online is insane.
Was it Wind and Therapy? I mean, Bloating and Truth? If yes, I have similar experience. People seem to love authors so much that they are ready to forgive them anything, including comments like: Yeah, don't read it if you don't like it but it is exactly the story I wanted to tell, so suck it up. And yes, I am packed with emotions I can't share with the fanbase because they would stomp on me until my last breath was drawn and then stomp again. Sorry for my rant.
That’s frustrating, I’m sorry. 😢 It happens all too often. There’s a big difference between having a discussion on opposite viewpoints and slinging mud at each other.
One book that immediately comes to mind is Deadhouse Gates. The division in opinion of this novel, and equally the Malazan series, is astounding! And while I think its a shame that some didn't care for it and will likely DNF the series, I can also appreciate their attempt. The novels are huge, they gave it a shot, and for that, I am thankful. I couldn't agree more with all that you said in this video. Well done!
Very good video Tori, though I am saddened to hear that you now regret reading Lonesome Dove. Don't get down because some people can't bear someone else disagreeing with their takes. This speaks to an issue I've noticed on BookTube, where there seems to be this level of group think where you have to like these certain popular books and any dissent is either ignored at best or ridiculed at worst. We can't really seem to have any sort of nuanced opinions on anything, because I was on that Lonesome Dove chat, you had some really great insights about the story and characters even though you had your issues with it. I'm considering making a video on this subject soon. I'll admit, I sometimes struggle as well when people don't like the books I like, not because I can't bear someone disagreeing with me, but sometimes I get frustrated when people don't see the beauty that I see when I read a certain book that I enjoy (or any kind of media, I should note). I wish I could be like Jimmy who can be as chill as he is when someone dislikes a book he cherishes, but I'm not quite there yet. Maybe some day I will.
Totally agree-everyone’s opinions have some sort of value, especially when referring to perspective. And deifying celebrities at all is definitely dangerous
Great video Tori! I've been pretty lucky with not receiving these type of comments. I have a smaller channel so I suppose I don't draw the eyes of those who'd feel mad enough to do so. I actually find discussing books I didn't like or found to be just meh a bit more fun. My thoughts seem to flow out more concisely compared to books I love. We can be passionate while also being calm and civil.
Great video. I have mostly come scross this with Malazan fans and it makes me not want to discuss Malazan anymore 😂 your SoM review was so balanced and respectful, people can get so carried away.
Thanks Kyle! I've run into it with several fandoms at this point. I've run into a couple less savory sections of the Malazan fandom as well, but thankfully my circle is pretty great that way.
Too many people want their opinion to be right and tell others that theirs are wrong. But if we all shared the same opinions and liked the same things life would be very boring. What would there be to talk about then?
I don't get to have very many conversations about books, not because I don't want to but because I have trouble starting them. I can never get much further than 'I liked it' or 'I didn't like it'. I need specific questions in order to start a conversation, or an opinion... some place to start... especially when it's been a long time since I read it. That means, unfortunately, I have very few experiences with either positive or negative interactions. That being said, I have read many of those interactions here on BookTube and wow can they be vicious. It really is important to think before we speak, by written word or spoken. Celebrities/authors are people and they have some serious flaws, and so do the rest of us.
It’s really interesting how you and Derri’s Read It Before had that “Ship of Magic” discussion from differing PoVs. I’m sat here wondering if having a pre-existing familiarity, or trust even, with folks eases us past a lot of barriers. I know I’m quicker to dismiss or move on from folks that I don’t ‘know’ but when I have some appreciation for another’s thoughts - having heard or read them discuss things both positively and negatively - I can better fit myself into their perspectives. PS - unrelated, but you are very expressive with your hands. You’d be fun to watch signing your discussions 😁
Having an established relationship definitely helps! If I don’t know someone and just immediately barge into their space with a “you’re wrong” that doesn’t usually offer a good space for conversation. I’m far more likely to listen and even adjust my opinion on a book when talking with friends. And thank you, lol! I would love to learn ASL!
Tori is right on the money on this one!! My favorite book, the Bible, talks about being careful about being offended all the time. People who are often offended live in anger and cynicism. That's not healthy. Btw, I'm no angel and I'm working out my own issues concerning offense. Tori also made a great and very wise point about disagreement not equating to disrespect, a concept that needs to be spread far and wide. Great vid!!
This was a great vid i really understand what you are saying, i would never try new and different books if not listening to booktuber experiences on there like and dislike but it not nice to upset or trash other views or opinions but we live it a harsh world we all rant but to there faces no if you can't say something nice then say nothing at all, all the best Tori i want to read your book always like to give other a chance
All so well said. I wish there was a way to download all 13 minutes of this video into everyone's brains... shame people only have time for headlines and soundbites nowadays...
Went in to the video, thinking it was going to be about Neil Gaiman, and I was preparing a comment along the lines of "yes, nobody's perfect, but there's a hugh difference between having a few bad character traits and being a rapist". Turns out I was wrong.
Lol nope, there are plenty of people speaking on Neil Gaiman at the moment. I'm not interested in giving him space on my channel. Thank you so much for watching!
Another problem I have seen is when BookTubers participate in a lot of what you just described. Mudslinging, name calling, etc. can happen on camera as well as the comment section. There are people I no longer follow on social media because of the way they talk to or about people they don’t agree with. So. Finding channels like yours who advocate for kindness, understanding, and empathy are VERY much appreciated.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you've enjoyed the content. I have very strong opinions about some books, and I even cross the line sometimes, but I try to be honest without tearing people down. I have no problem saying I think a book is awful, but I don't want to start throwing mud at people who enjoy it.
@@ToriTalks2 eh. We’re all human. And honesty is not a bad thing. Neither is emotion. It’s what we do with it that matters, and, from what I have seen, you do a great job .
I think part of the issue is that those things you mentioned also apply to a lot of the critics. Because what I very often see is that those "critics" aren't arguing about "I didn't like that book because of a), b) and c)" but are claiming "This book is a whole loads of [insert expletive]" and anyone who says otherwise is also [insert expletive]." So again they confuse their own experience (assuming they aren't just trolls) with what might be a completely different objective truth (or at least an approximation of that). And in my opinion, this behavior came first and consequently led the other side to radicalise as well (kinda like what we see in the political sphere). Which is a shame because it really inhibits our ability to have meaningful discussion where we at least try to be analytical and come to some kind of approximation of truth regarding a book or an author. Though I also think that most people aren't even interested in that, they just enjoy celebrating something they like with like-minded people, and someone interfering in that celebration with whatever kind of criticism ruins that enjoyment at least a bit. All the while social networks, being what they are, try their best to instigate those conflicts.
I absolutely agree with your thesis and I think you presented it well. "De gustibus non est disputandum" is a principle that everyone should understand, but the fact that there's a phrase in Latin to address the issue would tend to indicate that it's not a new problem. More's the pity.
I tend to be very interested in criticism of books I love, because sometimes people who didn't like a book have more to say about it than people who did. If it takes you a while to figure out why a book bothered you, you might think about it a lot more than people who liked it and moved on. Shutting criticism down automatically makes people miss out on a lot of interesting conversations.
I think two of the problems are, not being able to hear the tone of voice a comment is written in, and also a commenter may agree with a bunch of things and not mention them and only hone in on the differences. But yeah, text has so little nuance and it’s easy to read things as aggressive.
That's definitely true for authors I don't like. 😅 I actually love when I find a dissenting book opinion. Especially in a critical area like booktube. Groupthink is such a strong influence, especially when you form these communities. Some people get their identity wrapped up in either things they love or being seen as someone with great taste, and if that's countered, it really does feel like a personal attack for them. We're desperate for validation. Then you quit engaging in good faith and it's just a battle of wills and exhausting. We've all seen this with fandoms.
For me, I just don’t dive into an author’s personal life. I like to keep their art and the artist separate. It allows me to enjoy the books I read in a more genuine way. Without any preconceived thought about their personal life. I don’t want their personality and beliefs influencing my reading experience. For example Name of the Wind is my favorite book of all time. (As of right now of course). But I don’t care to delve into Rothfuss and his life. Then on the other side of the coin I didn’t like Mistborn by Sanderson… I’ve expressed my opinion on my channel and well I was genuinely scared to get backlash. Thankfully I have had wonderful conversations even to people with differing opinions. Great video!
As a whole we have lost the ability to debate a book, idea, thoughts etc and just stick to the topic verses attacking the person who holds different views. It’s your wrong, I’m right and that is it. Let’s get back to talking/debating without attacking someone
I always try to be open minded, but there are times when my mind just shuts down. and that's when other people are extremely narrow minded. I just can't stand it 😭 Like guys, we all have our own opinions, and if you think the problem is that they didn't *understand* the story, then that's not entirely their fault. That fault may lay on the author, or it might just not be a story that interested them, and that's not their fault. Open mind = yes yes, narrow mind = no no. Great video!
As an autistic person, hyperfixations really do alter my state of being. If I were to hear something critical about my current obsession, I might just malfunction and pass away /j
It really is a bit like religion or politics. The book becomes part of their identity so any criticism feels like an attack on who they are as a person. Great video!
This is why my AP English teacher is my fav. I still detest Tess of the D'urbervilles. Every class came down to the two of us talking about it. The 1st semester final was debate with both classes and i was vehemently defending a scene. After Christmas break he went through each person for a mini discussion. My turn he stopped, all i said was its good for its time period, i just dont like it. He looked at me for 3 seconds, said okay and moved on.
I love watching critical rant videos about 'bad books' here on YT, but I do have a problem when some creators get too caught up in their distaste for the book that they indirectly insult the people who loved it. There's a trend of alternating people who like 'bad' books like they're unintelligent. Conversely, some people will think you're stupid if you don't like the book that *they* love, and insult your intelligence or act like you just don't understand the work. I've been guilty some of this in the past, and looking back I feel terrible for putting down other people's experience, even if it was only said within my own head. I think we all can stand to work on not viewing everything as a competition and comparing ourselves constantly. We don't need to feel superior to other people.
Great video. If peeps get all riled up over not liking a book, they need to go outside and touch grass. I love Malazan, no secret, but around half the peeps I recommend it to bounce off it. And that’s fine. I get it. Steve isn’t for everyone, and no book or series is for everyone (except Winnie the Poo…that might be for everyone)
Yeah, I agree. Personally I often keep certain views to myself when I suspect they won't be appreciated. You don't really have that option as a booktuber. The followers worth having agree with you on this, though.
i dont think the issue people have is that "youre not allowed to have a different opinion" from them but rather, they seem to think that youre insulting their taste since they really liked a certain book and then you come in and say "the plot was trash, the characters unlikeable" and at that point, it doesnt matter how much you try to justify your points, because its still going to seem like an insult to them. by "you" i obviously dont mean you specifically, just anyone in general. and by "they" i mean only certain types of people, too. some can take it rather well ofc
Well said, yet unfortunate that it needs to be. Some people’s maturity and social decorum levels suffer when interacting online. Yet look at the examples that are set by our political leaders, who increasingly exemplify a continuous, antagonistic us-versus-them dynamic. One would like to think that a reading community might rise above such schoolyard behaviour, but… then there wouldn’t be this video, would there? We are suffering through a decency-deficit age.
I had a bad experience with a guy named Oliver who is a Red Rising fan. This guy basically talked shit to me using American slang just because I didn't like the series.
What I don’t understand is going to a fan page or fan site of a particular author or genre and then ranting about how you don’t like it. Like wtf is the point? And yes, reading is absolutely subjective. It’s the same thing with the concept of “good writing.” People DNF books because of “bad writing” and that’s fine. But the rants about how poorly something was written and then the “I gave this 0 stars” and “how could anyone like this?” are oftentimes people just wanting to be contrarian.
I think people build a special bond with authors that isn't formed with other celebrities. We come to know authors through their words and thoughts and almost feel like they are our friends which can lead to people wanting to defend those we care about. Weather books or music or politics we need to respect people opinions, sadly a dying art.
Thanks for asking, I forgot to add the Cards on the video. Here's a link to the discussion we had: ua-cam.com/users/livekY51rZPX8gg?si=WO7oOIXlhJK9-jqb It was a great discussion, I enjoyed it a lot. The buddy read was a positive experience. :)
@@ToriTalks2 Thanks! I love how well thought out your more essay-style videos are. They always linger in my mind and even when my opinion is the complete opposite, I'm glad I listened.
So wait… you’re saying that my opinion of “The Blood Stones is one of the best (and favorite) books I’ve read in a long time” isn’t objectively the right opinion?😱😜 But seriously, I do get what you’re saying and 100% agree with you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions (Even though they’re wrong 😜). -T
Forgive me if this is redundant or out of line, but if Lonesome Dove didn't work for you (it didn't for me either), allow me to recommend Buffalo Girls instead. I cried at the end. It's very hard make me cry at the end. Just saying.
I'm sorry you have been on the recieving end of some nasty comments Tori. Shutting down any conversation because one participant doesnt want to hear an opposite view lessens the value of the topic of that conversation and also shows that that person isnt interested in a meaningful debate. When it comes to SFF, we are all incredibly passionate people who, if we love a particular author or series, can become incredidly protective of it and thats great. But when that turns into gate keeping and when any other point of view that opposes ones view, causes one to react defensively or aggressively, and it isnt a conversation anymore. It's a shouting match. The book community would be a pretty dull place if we all sat back and loved and adored every book we all read. We would all live in one giant echo chamber. Difference of opinion stokes great conversation and the best debates and thats what the book community is so great for. Lets keep that alive!
I am still bitter that you don’t recognize the brilliance that is Bride. I mean how could you have a reasonable differing opinion? What ?!! Joking aside, a very articulate video as always. ❤
I love this video! I 100% agree with you and I think it's not only social media but the world at large. As a whole it feels like there's more talking and not enough listening and not enough attempt to find common ground with which to discuss any topic, controversial or not. I am glad to hear you encourage open, honest dialogue that honors each person involved and their thoughts/opinions. Well said. 🫶
girl i know , i know , we have been waiting for winds of winter for 15 years he isnt god , and i hope he will finish the serie before god allmighty decide to take him
Okay, I've watched the whole video. I will say that some authors are just overrated, but they're not bad, far from it. I guess I'm just annoyed at people defending them for every lapse or mistake they make. Idk. Hard to explain.
You've articulated this so well. So I review books on Tumblr (lol there shouldn't be any people on Tumblr) and I've started getting hate when I say anything negative about a few authors. And I mean ANYTHING. For example, I made the comment that I felt that some of the narration for a particular book just wasn't for me and was told it's because I hate the author. Another was for a manga that I just frankly didn't like the art style. A commentor told me I was stupid and didn't understand art.
They're not? 🥺🥺**Throws away prayer book and cult robes**
Dude! Donate to your local thrift store! 😂
@thefairylibrarian3282 Kaat, you’re amazing 😂😂😂
The cult of the word has only one god! A. Wake
I have two specific experiences which always come to mind regarding this topic: 1. I once recommended my favorite book (Till We Have Faces) to one of the Marines I was deployed with. He vented at me for AN HOUR (which I was happy to let him do!) because he was so upset with the book. We had WILDLY different experiences with it.
2. One of my closest friends (smart, awesome, well-read) recommended the BOOK OF HER HEART AND SOUL to me. I hated it with every fiber of my being. HATED. I still feel angry when I think about that book. But I still respect my friend's opinions and tastes! I love passionate discussion; it shouldn't be shut down. Excellent video!!!
That's interesting in #1. The person was so engaged with the book that they had an hour of stuff to say about it. It shows the book really made them feel something. As they say, the opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference.
Thanks for watching! Love these examples. 🔥🔥🔥
@@patrickliu7179 I completely agree! And even that book I HATED, I felt so strongly because it had beautiful prose, but I felt like the theme was wildly mishandled and disconnected from reality and didn't ultimately come to a meaningful fruition. I CARED.
Fantastic breakdown Tori!
If I get offended at someone critiquing something I love, the mature thing to do is to analyze WHY they made me mad. If I feel the need to go on the offensive, I’m part of the problem.
I agree! I actually have learned to enjoy breaking down the "why" books make me feel the way they do. And I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives on them.
This really illustrates how great book clubs can be? There are several books my own club has read that I didn't enjoy on my read through, but that I left the meetup with a better understanding/different perspective on the book as a whole or the parts that I may not have liked on first read through. It's also totally ok to enjoy a book WHILE recognizing the failings within the storytelling, and knowing that those might prevent another person from their enjoyment.
Great video, Tori! It makes me think of the "Opposites Attract" Bookclub between Merphy and Amber Alise, which shows how friends can widely disagree about the same books, and it doesn't have to be toxic. In fact, it can be respectful and fun! Much respect and support for all your book thoughts and experiences, my friend!
I love their discussions! It's very book-focused and lighthearted rather than being pointed and personal. I love it. Thank you so much for watching! I absolutely love our discussions on books, whether we agree or not!
I love this video Tori because you express a lot of what I've experienced in the book community. This has happened to me several times when I've mentioned I don't like Hobb.
I was actually discussing this very issue with a friend yesterday that I'm tired of people dismissing me if I disagree with them about a beloved author of theirs or the flip side people implying there is something wrong with me for liking an author that they don't like.
It leaves no room for discussion or exploring the reasons why we have different opinions on those authors.
I've never understood why some take it so personally that you don't like their favourite author or book. It doesn't invalidate their experience and it also doesn't take into account the fact that we all have wildly varying experiences and tastes. We can't all like the colour pink, right? How dull would life be without variety.
2:51-3:07 This doesn’t one for one relate to the topic of your video but what you said here made me think of my reading experience of Sarah Chorn’s novella “A Sorrow Named Joy.” The protagonist was written in such a way that they reminded me of myself and how I see the world. Their way of perceiving the world made me think “oh this character has this X diagnosis that I do, I’m so invested in this character because I see so much of myself in them.” When it was revealed what their true identity was, I almost put the book down because it felt to me as though the author was saying something that was wrong about me. I had to take a step back then and realize just how much I had put of myself into this protagonist had blinded me to what the author’s intentions were with what Chorn wanted the reader to get from the story.
Great video, Tori, and your example of how Derri handled your not liking something that is incredibly special to her is the example we should all follow. Not all books are for all people, and when we put the authors or the books themselves on a level beyond reproach, we're some of the worst gatekeepers there can be.
Great video Tori! I have also struggled with the inverse as well where people are upset I have a positive experience with a book they dislike. People can be strange.😅
I think engaging in book communities and getting to know the people on the screen or in the comments helps others learn how be to treat people more kindly who they disagree with. It’s a lot easier to be nasty when there is relational distance.
That's a great video. You're absolutely right - in a world where we can talk to almost everyone on the planet, we've lost the art of respectfully listening to other people.
Very well said. Parasocial psychology is so interesting - but it can be dangerous and unhealthy. I'm always impressed by people who have the courage to put their opinions out onto the internet (especially women) because the fear of backlash stops me a lot of the time.
I always appreciate your thoughtful discussions and love the way you approached this one ❤One of my favorite things about this community is how we can respectfully disagree with each other about books, and it’s a shame when some commenters try to ruin that. And it’s always someone who usually doesn’t engage with our content or is stumbling upon our channels for the first time 🤦🏽♀️
I’ve also been surprised by my opinions that get the positive/negative responses. I fully expected to get hateful comments from saying I don’t like The Name of the Wind, but they were all kind lol! Instead I got some a couple years ago by saying I didn’t want to read Terry Pratchett 🤣
You are so right! I actually seek out opposing opinions on books I loved. It usually provides a broader understanding of the book which is, to me, an important way of understanding, like you said, the wider concepts of the book culturally or socially, etc. 💙
Absolutely brilliantly said, to no one's surprise ;)
I have always been a bit confused by why people get SO offended when someone else doesn't love a story the same way they did, especialy because I tend to sway almost a bit too far in the other direction. Like, when I see a more critical review of a book that I loved or just had a great time with, I almost always feel like they have the right opinion and then have a really hard time holding onto my own experience.
Loved hearing you talk through this! And thanks for the rec about that TED talk, I am gonna watch it immediately!
What an amazing video Tori! Your insights here are absolutely wonderful and thought-provoking. The positive yet candid way you approach this subject is amazing. So well done! Disagreements about the same books are healthy, normal, and more than appropriate. There is ZERO requirement for it to be contentious. I think we as a community, overall, as you indicate, can rise above any subjective differences of opinion about what brings us together as a community, which ultimately is books. We need to remember that - our common bond is more uniting then divisive. Thank you so much for making this video.
This is an excellent video! I hope more readers can also accept that favorite authors are free to write their own stories that may not fit with reader expectations and that those writers don’t deserve “hate” or personal attacks in return either. I’ve been seeing that online lately, too. I think part of that issue is a similar problem with some readers taking their personal experiences of a book to a slightly different extreme. Authors really don’t owe us anything. They’re just people. I love a good negative review that explains personal experiences-that’s how I find new perspectives on books, or discover that I’m not alone. But save the “hate”. Life’s rough enough without sending that energy to fellow readers and storytellers. 😊
I feel this 100% and appreciate you making this video. I haven’t talked about Lonesome Dove a lot on my channel because I knew I would probably get hate. I didn’t get along with it very well either.
I think it’s nice to be reminded that reading is subjective and we need to respect other’s opinions.
What's so on point about this is you can replace "author" or "book" with movies, tv shows, politics, etc etc... objectivity and open-mindedness is a valuable trait for life and society.
Absolutely 💯. Fantastic breakdown, Tori!
Well said Tori. Although I believe the disagreement and disrespect issue is a lesson, the whole country, and not just those on the Internet, needs to learn.
Wholeheartedly agree!
Absolutely agree, and very well articulated!! Sadly, I think it's going to get much worse before it gets any better, despite how much I wish cooler heads would prevail. All we can do is try, and be the kind of people we want to see more of in the world, and it will help teach some how to have more grace about their opinions. People repeat the cycle when they think it's the only option to be heard.
That is one nice thing about being in smaller communities online... I recently posted a fairly critical review of ACOTAR (read for a friend, similar to your experience with Bride), and I was so uplifted by how the people who felt very different amidst my community were still so accepting and understanding of my viewpoint, simply because I also tried to see theirs. We owe that to each other! And that shows me what I think IS the problem with these vitriolic people who leave comments like that: they have nothing to lose if they do. At least IRL there are some repercussions, usually, for being very toxic, and in smaller online communities where you could be ejected, and you value people's relationships... But these folks only relate to one community, and that's the "people who think like me". And with the size of the internet, it's easy to go a long time before ever encountering someone who doesn't, if your algorithm is trained well enough. What a pickle we've created!
I hope that this doesn't happen to you too frequently, and Im glad it's a minority of folks. But oof. I really wish we all could be as lovely as Derri :)
I loved this. I have noticed, as well, how divisive a lot of online spaces have become in general and it really does make me sad. I follow so many of my different hobbies online, sports, music, books, even collecting dice, and they all seem to have a over lying opinion that "If you don't agree with me, you are wrong. And not only are you wrong but you are a bad person because of it, and you should be canceled." (basically). I truly hope that as we are pushed to the brink of collapse that more people take a step back and look at the situation as a whole and realize that it's still ok to be different. It is actually beneficial for us to be different and to interact with people who are and think differently than ourselves.
This is such an important video. I'm glad you're bringing light to it and it's such a shame you have to.
I don't remember specifically which video it was, but on a tier ranking one recently I commented that I didn't realize how much our tastes varied until then and I think it is because you are always so nuanced and respecful when discussing books you dislike. In a world of exaggerated rants, it's very refreshing.
I'll admit, there are times when I do feel hurt by people disliking things that I emotionally connect with, but it is *so easy* to just click away in those instances. If I'm not in the brainspace for a discussion or debate, I get out of there! I think that's another issue with online communities, that not responding is seen as "losing an argument." Stepping away to take a breath and explore the issue before coming back with a clear head is sometimes necessary to have a productive discussion and that's okay
Great video! So sorry that was your experience, Tori! It hurts a little if someone doesn't love the book you love, at least in my case, but if they don't like it, I'm just sad they didn't have my enjoyment. The trashtalk I can do without, when they say 'He's famous, he can take it' when NOT having read the book, that does get seriously on my nerves. Someone wants to say their say, that's fine! But a lot of people are going after authors they have not/barely read just saying things because it's popular to say them. Just wish more people would sometimes say: It wasn't for because ... instead of tearing things down for the sake of it and for clicks
Excellent video, Tori! I wholeheartedly agree about the problems that come with celebrity culture, as well as the necessity of open, respectful dialogue - even (maybe especially) about the things we love
Thank you so much, Zammar.
so agree. it's super toxic for the author too. especially when some readers are slightly disappointed in a book like W&T (which i loved but many didn't). they react as if the author personally spited them 🤣
Exactly! Authors get attacked a lot as well.
I think that's another part of the problem. Because if authors get put on such high pedestals, they basically can only fail expectations. And love can turn into hate pretty fast.
Agree. After seeing comments in some of the negative booktube reviews for W&T, I have to wonder why Rothfuss and Martin would ever finish their series? How could they do anything but pull down the wrath of their fandoms for not living up to expectations. That’s a lot of pressure. I would think the scorn they receive for not finishing a series is better than from what “fans” can do if they are let down. With fans like that, who needs enemies?
we always need to be reminded of this. thanks for making this
Thank you for watching, Pete!
I have not had that many people be upset and rude because I disliked a book they liked which I appreciate. I have actually had the opposite happen more, which to me is even weirder. Which is people lashing out, and being rude and dismissive when I like a book, or series they dislike.
Same, thank you for saying this. Although Tori's experiences are of course valid and many of her points are still important, I feel this is much more accurate to what I see actually consistently happening in this community.
I often say to my husband that I am not big enough fan of anything, because I don't mind when somebody doesn't like my favourite books. 😂
I like finding reviews of my favourites, both positive and negative, because it is fun to know what other people think. On the other side, I do look for positive reviews of the books I did not like, because I always try to understand why others like it, and then I may end up at least appreciating those books for all the good others see in them.
Sometimes even I don't like the things that I like, so there's nothing wrong with that. 😅
I'm the same way! I enjoy hearing a variety of opinions on my favorite or least favorite books. I'm fascinated by the way everyone's reading experience can be so different, and how a book lands based on someone's preferences or perspective.
@@ToriTalks2 Yes, we are different people and we like different things.
Nobody is mad that not everyone is in love with the same person they are. Or that they don't drink the same drinks, or eat the same food. Why, then, they need for everyone to love the same books?
I admire how calm you and everyone I watch are regarding those comments. It can't be easy. ❤
@@majcikic87 it’s a learned art 😂 I have a natural fight reflex so I’ve spent many years tempering that. I’m glad it’s working!
Excellent video. I think one of the best things about people is that we are all different and like different things. It’s great to learn about one another from these differences.
LOL and here I thought you were going to talk about Gaiman.
Good points, definitely!
You weren’t the only one 😂😂😂
This is such a good video on this topic.
Personally, I've recently read a series with a pretty large fandom and I absolutely hated the last book because of the main character. I related heavily to the main character from the previous books in the series and the main character from the last book had spent the entire series abusing the original main character so even though I tried to go into the last book with an open mind, I still hated that those same behaviors and patterns were not only repeated but seemed to be brushed off by other characters. I ended up giving the book a low rating due to my personal experience and, when I saw a video with someone expressing similar thoughts, I commented that I agreed with their opinions on the book.
What scared me was that other people who loved the book then replied to my comment and told me that I was a selfish and horrible person who has never experienced trauma or mental health issues (which I can assure you, I have) and went on to bash my character rather than engage in a discussion about the book itself. The fact that people don't seem to understand that people can see books and characters differently and that it isn't a basis to harass someone online is insane.
Was it Wind and Therapy? I mean, Bloating and Truth? If yes, I have similar experience. People seem to love authors so much that they are ready to forgive them anything, including comments like: Yeah, don't read it if you don't like it but it is exactly the story I wanted to tell, so suck it up. And yes, I am packed with emotions I can't share with the fanbase because they would stomp on me until my last breath was drawn and then stomp again. Sorry for my rant.
That’s frustrating, I’m sorry. 😢 It happens all too often. There’s a big difference between having a discussion on opposite viewpoints and slinging mud at each other.
One book that immediately comes to mind is Deadhouse Gates. The division in opinion of this novel, and equally the Malazan series, is astounding! And while I think its a shame that some didn't care for it and will likely DNF the series, I can also appreciate their attempt. The novels are huge, they gave it a shot, and for that, I am thankful.
I couldn't agree more with all that you said in this video. Well done!
Happy reading to you!! 😊
Thank you!
Very good video Tori, though I am saddened to hear that you now regret reading Lonesome Dove. Don't get down because some people can't bear someone else disagreeing with their takes.
This speaks to an issue I've noticed on BookTube, where there seems to be this level of group think where you have to like these certain popular books and any dissent is either ignored at best or ridiculed at worst. We can't really seem to have any sort of nuanced opinions on anything, because I was on that Lonesome Dove chat, you had some really great insights about the story and characters even though you had your issues with it. I'm considering making a video on this subject soon.
I'll admit, I sometimes struggle as well when people don't like the books I like, not because I can't bear someone disagreeing with me, but sometimes I get frustrated when people don't see the beauty that I see when I read a certain book that I enjoy (or any kind of media, I should note). I wish I could be like Jimmy who can be as chill as he is when someone dislikes a book he cherishes, but I'm not quite there yet. Maybe some day I will.
The best way to see someone meet your expectations is to be the example you wish to see
Totally agree-everyone’s opinions have some sort of value, especially when referring to perspective. And deifying celebrities at all is definitely dangerous
Great video Tori! I've been pretty lucky with not receiving these type of comments. I have a smaller channel so I suppose I don't draw the eyes of those who'd feel mad enough to do so. I actually find discussing books I didn't like or found to be just meh a bit more fun. My thoughts seem to flow out more concisely compared to books I love. We can be passionate while also being calm and civil.
I’m glad you’ve avoided it! Discussing books is one of my favorite parts of the community. 😍
Great video. I have mostly come scross this with Malazan fans and it makes me not want to discuss Malazan anymore 😂 your SoM review was so balanced and respectful, people can get so carried away.
Thanks Kyle! I've run into it with several fandoms at this point. I've run into a couple less savory sections of the Malazan fandom as well, but thankfully my circle is pretty great that way.
Great Video Tori!
The one time I said something was kinda dull in Malazan over on another platform ... 😅
Oooof. 😂 I can imagine.
Hey Tori. Author here, just came across your channel. THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS.
Thank you for watching!
A mature analysis! Good work.
Thank you!
Too many people want their opinion to be right and tell others that theirs are wrong. But if we all shared the same opinions and liked the same things life would be very boring. What would there be to talk about then?
You're absolutely right. I'm not here for an echo chamber. :)
I don't get to have very many conversations about books, not because I don't want to but because I have trouble starting them. I can never get much further than 'I liked it' or 'I didn't like it'. I need specific questions in order to start a conversation, or an opinion... some place to start... especially when it's been a long time since I read it. That means, unfortunately, I have very few experiences with either positive or negative interactions. That being said, I have read many of those interactions here on BookTube and wow can they be vicious. It really is important to think before we speak, by written word or spoken. Celebrities/authors are people and they have some serious flaws, and so do the rest of us.
It’s really interesting how you and Derri’s Read It Before had that “Ship of Magic” discussion from differing PoVs. I’m sat here wondering if having a pre-existing familiarity, or trust even, with folks eases us past a lot of barriers. I know I’m quicker to dismiss or move on from folks that I don’t ‘know’ but when I have some appreciation for another’s thoughts - having heard or read them discuss things both positively and negatively - I can better fit myself into their perspectives.
PS - unrelated, but you are very expressive with your hands. You’d be fun to watch signing your discussions 😁
Having an established relationship definitely helps! If I don’t know someone and just immediately barge into their space with a “you’re wrong” that doesn’t usually offer a good space for conversation. I’m far more likely to listen and even adjust my opinion on a book when talking with friends.
And thank you, lol! I would love to learn ASL!
Tori is right on the money on this one!! My favorite book, the Bible, talks about being careful about being offended all the time. People who are often offended live in anger and cynicism. That's not healthy. Btw, I'm no angel and I'm working out my own issues concerning offense. Tori also made a great and very wise point about disagreement not equating to disrespect, a concept that needs to be spread far and wide. Great vid!!
This was a great vid i really understand what you are saying, i would never try new and different books if not listening to booktuber experiences on there like and dislike but it not nice to upset or trash other views or opinions but we live it a harsh world we all rant but to there faces no if you can't say something nice then say nothing at all, all the best Tori i want to read your book always like to give other a chance
All so well said. I wish there was a way to download all 13 minutes of this video into everyone's brains... shame people only have time for headlines and soundbites nowadays...
Thank you so much for watching! 🙌🏻
I had a commenter tell me I had no sense of humor because I didn't have the desire to read Pratchett... umm no... just different 🤷🏼♀️
How dare you. XD
Yeah well, I am German, so I get to hear that all the time, and I absolutely adore Pratchett.
@@Eluarelon well I think your sense of humor is just fine, Pratchett lover or not 😁
I don’t get Pratchett either.
I like it because it's quirky and original. I don't think Pratchett ever was funny though.
Went in to the video, thinking it was going to be about Neil Gaiman, and I was preparing a comment along the lines of "yes, nobody's perfect, but there's a hugh difference between having a few bad character traits and being a rapist". Turns out I was wrong.
Lol nope, there are plenty of people speaking on Neil Gaiman at the moment. I'm not interested in giving him space on my channel. Thank you so much for watching!
What is it about Neil Gaiman? I am not able to understand the controversy surrounding him. Is it regarding his books?
Another problem I have seen is when BookTubers participate in a lot of what you just described. Mudslinging, name calling, etc. can happen on camera as well as the comment section. There are people I no longer follow on social media because of the way they talk to or about people they don’t agree with.
So. Finding channels like yours who advocate for kindness, understanding, and empathy are VERY much appreciated.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you've enjoyed the content. I have very strong opinions about some books, and I even cross the line sometimes, but I try to be honest without tearing people down. I have no problem saying I think a book is awful, but I don't want to start throwing mud at people who enjoy it.
@@ToriTalks2 eh. We’re all human. And honesty is not a bad thing. Neither is emotion. It’s what we do with it that matters, and, from what I have seen, you do a great job .
@@annmoore321 thank you 😊
I think part of the issue is that those things you mentioned also apply to a lot of the critics. Because what I very often see is that those "critics" aren't arguing about "I didn't like that book because of a), b) and c)" but are claiming "This book is a whole loads of [insert expletive]" and anyone who says otherwise is also [insert expletive]." So again they confuse their own experience (assuming they aren't just trolls) with what might be a completely different objective truth (or at least an approximation of that).
And in my opinion, this behavior came first and consequently led the other side to radicalise as well (kinda like what we see in the political sphere). Which is a shame because it really inhibits our ability to have meaningful discussion where we at least try to be analytical and come to some kind of approximation of truth regarding a book or an author. Though I also think that most people aren't even interested in that, they just enjoy celebrating something they like with like-minded people, and someone interfering in that celebration with whatever kind of criticism ruins that enjoyment at least a bit. All the while social networks, being what they are, try their best to instigate those conflicts.
Great video, Tori!
Thank you so much!
I absolutely agree with your thesis and I think you presented it well. "De gustibus non est disputandum" is a principle that everyone should understand, but the fact that there's a phrase in Latin to address the issue would tend to indicate that it's not a new problem. More's the pity.
I tend to be very interested in criticism of books I love, because sometimes people who didn't like a book have more to say about it than people who did. If it takes you a while to figure out why a book bothered you, you might think about it a lot more than people who liked it and moved on.
Shutting criticism down automatically makes people miss out on a lot of interesting conversations.
I think two of the problems are, not being able to hear the tone of voice a comment is written in, and also a commenter may agree with a bunch of things and not mention them and only hone in on the differences. But yeah, text has so little nuance and it’s easy to read things as aggressive.
That's definitely true for authors I don't like. 😅
I actually love when I find a dissenting book opinion. Especially in a critical area like booktube. Groupthink is such a strong influence, especially when you form these communities.
Some people get their identity wrapped up in either things they love or being seen as someone with great taste, and if that's countered, it really does feel like a personal attack for them. We're desperate for validation. Then you quit engaging in good faith and it's just a battle of wills and exhausting.
We've all seen this with fandoms.
For me, I just don’t dive into an author’s personal life. I like to keep their art and the artist separate. It allows me to enjoy the books I read in a more genuine way. Without any preconceived thought about their personal life. I don’t want their personality and beliefs influencing my reading experience.
For example Name of the Wind is my favorite book of all time. (As of right now of course). But I don’t care to delve into Rothfuss and his life.
Then on the other side of the coin I didn’t like Mistborn by Sanderson… I’ve expressed my opinion on my channel and well I was genuinely scared to get backlash. Thankfully I have had wonderful conversations even to people with differing opinions. Great video!
As a whole we have lost the ability to debate a book, idea, thoughts etc and just stick to the topic verses attacking the person who holds different views. It’s your wrong, I’m right and that is it. Let’s get back to talking/debating without attacking someone
Great discussion, happy new sub here :)
Thank you so much!
It does scare me that people put authors, celebrities and even corporations on a pedestal.
It's like dealing with a child who believes in Santa.
Based takes as always Tori. Also love your Yor figure!
Thank you! I love Yor 😍
Your attitude leads me to subscribe very level headed.
Thanks for the sub! Glad you enjoyed it.
Celebrity: you shall have no other god besides me.
Me: wait, who else said that?
Oi! I'm trying to start a cult here 🤣
Fully agree - hopefully the Malazan fans take note. They won't, but a guy can dream.
I like your stuffed Nintendo Yoshi.
love this message!
Thanks Brian!!!
I always try to be open minded, but there are times when my mind just shuts down. and that's when other people are extremely narrow minded. I just can't stand it 😭 Like guys, we all have our own opinions, and if you think the problem is that they didn't *understand* the story, then that's not entirely their fault. That fault may lay on the author, or it might just not be a story that interested them, and that's not their fault. Open mind = yes yes, narrow mind = no no. Great video!
I don't know. Tolkien comes pretty close.
Even Tolkien was human 😂
As an autistic person, hyperfixations really do alter my state of being. If I were to hear something critical about my current obsession, I might just malfunction and pass away /j
It really is a bit like religion or politics. The book becomes part of their identity so any criticism feels like an attack on who they are as a person. Great video!
This is why my AP English teacher is my fav. I still detest Tess of the D'urbervilles. Every class came down to the two of us talking about it. The 1st semester final was debate with both classes and i was vehemently defending a scene. After Christmas break he went through each person for a mini discussion. My turn he stopped, all i said was its good for its time period, i just dont like it. He looked at me for 3 seconds, said okay and moved on.
I love watching critical rant videos about 'bad books' here on YT, but I do have a problem when some creators get too caught up in their distaste for the book that they indirectly insult the people who loved it. There's a trend of alternating people who like 'bad' books like they're unintelligent. Conversely, some people will think you're stupid if you don't like the book that *they* love, and insult your intelligence or act like you just don't understand the work. I've been guilty some of this in the past, and looking back I feel terrible for putting down other people's experience, even if it was only said within my own head. I think we all can stand to work on not viewing everything as a competition and comparing ourselves constantly. We don't need to feel superior to other people.
It's sad things like this should be common sense and yet it's not common ToT
Great video. If peeps get all riled up over not liking a book, they need to go outside and touch grass. I love Malazan, no secret, but around half the peeps I recommend it to bounce off it. And that’s fine. I get it. Steve isn’t for everyone, and no book or series is for everyone (except Winnie the Poo…that might be for everyone)
I think Winnie the Pooh is about the safest option 😂
@ I’d hope so lol
I remember being in 4th grade and being upset that my friend didn't agree that Kevin from backstreet boys was the hottest
Oh man, that’s a throwback! 😂
ENOUGH OS ENOUGH!!!! Get it Tori!!!!
Haha thanks Wiz!
I have never gotten angry when someone doesn’t like the books I recommend or like. I am more confused and disappointed in them 😜
Haha the full range of emotions is there. XD
Yeah, I agree. Personally I often keep certain views to myself when I suspect they won't be appreciated. You don't really have that option as a booktuber. The followers worth having agree with you on this, though.
SJM’s extremist fans need to watch this !! ☺️ I know I’m not the only who got de@th-threat dm because I didn’t like their beloved series.
I'm sorry to hear that. The fandoms can get pretty wild.
celebrities are human just like we are. period.
Totally agree!
i dont think the issue people have is that "youre not allowed to have a different opinion" from them but rather, they seem to think that youre insulting their taste since they really liked a certain book and then you come in and say "the plot was trash, the characters unlikeable" and at that point, it doesnt matter how much you try to justify your points, because its still going to seem like an insult to them.
by "you" i obviously dont mean you specifically, just anyone in general. and by "they" i mean only certain types of people, too. some can take it rather well ofc
Well said, yet unfortunate that it needs to be. Some people’s maturity and social decorum levels suffer when interacting online. Yet look at the examples that are set by our political leaders, who increasingly exemplify a continuous, antagonistic us-versus-them dynamic. One would like to think that a reading community might rise above such schoolyard behaviour, but… then there wouldn’t be this video, would there?
We are suffering through a decency-deficit age.
I had a bad experience with a guy named Oliver who is a Red Rising fan. This guy basically talked shit to me using American slang just because I didn't like the series.
That’s frustrating. Sorry that happened!
What I don’t understand is going to a fan page or fan site of a particular author or genre and then ranting about how you don’t like it. Like wtf is the point?
And yes, reading is absolutely subjective. It’s the same thing with the concept of “good writing.” People DNF books because of “bad writing” and that’s fine. But the rants about how poorly something was written and then the “I gave this 0 stars” and “how could anyone like this?” are oftentimes people just wanting to be contrarian.
I think people build a special bond with authors that isn't formed with other celebrities. We come to know authors through their words and thoughts and almost feel like they are our friends which can lead to people wanting to defend those we care about. Weather books or music or politics we need to respect people opinions, sadly a dying art.
This is very true! Books have a unique and powerful way of connecting with us.
Where can I find your discussion on Lonesome Dove?
Thanks for asking, I forgot to add the Cards on the video. Here's a link to the discussion we had:
ua-cam.com/users/livekY51rZPX8gg?si=WO7oOIXlhJK9-jqb
It was a great discussion, I enjoyed it a lot. The buddy read was a positive experience. :)
@@ToriTalks2 Thanks! I love how well thought out your more essay-style videos are. They always linger in my mind and even when my opinion is the complete opposite, I'm glad I listened.
@ thank you so much! I’m getting more comfortable with them, and I want to do more this year 🥰 It means a lot that you guys enjoy them!
im a book addict and i dont even know them lol (i read classics and contemporary classics)
No one is going to like everyone's favorite book or novels. 🎉 no one is perfect, Just read a book and have fun.🎉
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@ToriTalks2 no worries.
So wait… you’re saying that my opinion of “The Blood Stones is one of the best (and favorite) books I’ve read in a long time” isn’t objectively the right opinion?😱😜
But seriously, I do get what you’re saying and 100% agree with you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions (Even though they’re wrong 😜).
-T
I mean obviously that’s an exception. 😜 Thanks for watching, T!
Forgive me if this is redundant or out of line, but if Lonesome Dove didn't work for you (it didn't for me either), allow me to recommend Buffalo Girls instead. I cried at the end. It's very hard make me cry at the end. Just saying.
Not out of line at all! Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll check it out.
I'm sorry you have been on the recieving end of some nasty comments Tori.
Shutting down any conversation because one participant doesnt want to hear an opposite view lessens the value of the topic of that conversation and also shows that that person isnt interested in a meaningful debate.
When it comes to SFF, we are all incredibly passionate people who, if we love a particular author or series, can become incredidly protective of it and thats great.
But when that turns into gate keeping and when any other point of view that opposes ones view, causes one to react defensively or aggressively, and it isnt a conversation anymore. It's a shouting match.
The book community would be a pretty dull place if we all sat back and loved and adored every book we all read. We would all live in one giant echo chamber. Difference of opinion stokes great conversation and the best debates and thats what the book community is so great for. Lets keep that alive!
I am still bitter that you don’t recognize the brilliance that is Bride. I mean how could you have a reasonable differing opinion? What ?!!
Joking aside, a very articulate video as always. ❤
Sorry Sal. I know it’s a disappointment to many, but I just don’t think I’ll ever laud Bride’s literary merit. 😂 Thank you for watching!
I love this video! I 100% agree with you and I think it's not only social media but the world at large. As a whole it feels like there's more talking and not enough listening and not enough attempt to find common ground with which to discuss any topic, controversial or not. I am glad to hear you encourage open, honest dialogue that honors each person involved and their thoughts/opinions. Well said. 🫶
Thank you! And I totally agree. 🙌🏻
Ain't that the truth!
Brandon Sanderson has the worst fanbase
There, I said it
Every fandom has toxic subsets for sure.
girl i know , i know , we have been waiting for winds of winter for 15 years
he isnt god , and i hope he will finish the serie before god allmighty decide to take him
We can hope.
I'm sorry you gotten negative comments some people need to understand that not everyone is going to love or like the same books
It's true! And we can respect the differences and just keep reading great books!
Okay, I've watched the whole video.
I will say that some authors are just overrated, but they're not bad, far from it. I guess I'm just annoyed at people defending them for every lapse or mistake they make. Idk. Hard to explain.