Let’s Talk About Leather Saps // They Hit Hard!
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- The leather sap is another self defense option that is highly regulated state to state. In this video we will examine it’s design and abilities. Always research your state laws. #leathersap #selfdefense #selfdefensetools
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I started in police work in the early 70s and retired at the end of the last century. Saps and blackjacks were common impact weapons in those early days. I recall two pieces of advice from veteran officers about using them. The first was, 'Don't get emotionally involved using a blackjack, you can kill somebody with them. The second involved the sap. 'always a strike where the bone is closest to the skin. Never strike about the neck except in extreme. Then try to take out the guy's jaw.' A short sap carried in the strong side rear pocket was common in those days. And in a multi-cop struggle to handcuff a combative subject, they hurt I was struck in the forearm by one! I've used one on occasion and found a solid strike to the shoulder or collarbone area usually worked. Nowadays I own a collection of impact weapons including several saps and blackjacks. I would not recommend someone carrying these items as part of EDC gear. Impact weapons have their place when one is properly trained in their use. And practices with them. I used a baton or nightstick, many times more than I used the sap. If one feels they need an impact weapon, get a nice hardwood walking cane or walking stick. You can go anywhere with them and nobody will question them. I recently went through a courthouse security checkpoint with my favorite cane. I put it through the x-ray machine and the deputy complimented me about my nice cane. There are numerous training videos available about cane use for defense. I enjoy watching your channel.
Thank you!
LOL. Not only did security compliment me on my stick as it went through the courthouse x-ray, but they offered to loan me one while mine was being checked out.
No need to add lead weight or spike tip or any gimmick, a 3 foot section of 1.5 inch oak dowel is 100% legal most places. Except on commercial flights.
About the only thing even slightly unusual is mine is a "stockman's cane" with a slightly larger hook. It's used (no surprise) around livestock, and can hook a leg.
Nobody has EVER asked me.
@@ImperialistRunningDo Going to the state fair as a teenager I noticed all the cops working extra at the fair always carried a wooden cane. I worked up the nerve to ask one of them why they carried a cane. He told me it was cattle cane and the hook end was used to trip fleeing troublemakers. That was my introduction to stock canes. I have one in my collection as well. They are a great cane option and much less expensive than a custom cane. My favorite impact weapon while on the police force was the PR-24 sidehand baton. Most of the techniques used with the PR-24 work well with a cane.
I have a riot baton from the military that I added a brass knob to make a walking stick. Take it anywhere without question, and yes that includes on a flight. I have had someone ask how long I was an MP. 😂😂
I carried a sap for several years when I was a law enforcement officer. Where a sap excels, strike your opponents hands. I had several suspects put their fist up in a fighting stance. I hit their fist with sap. They’re not expecting a sap strike to the fist. After the first strike, hit their second hand while it massages the first hand. They never knew what hit them, they just wanted it to stop. Most people will lose the will to fight with injured hands.
Best technique I heard so far
Absolutely! The edge of the sap across the knuckles or bones of the wrist is a definite attitude adjuster! Great comment.🤘
Excellent❗️
Another good one is to use it like a hand bar/load and straight punch while holding it. Because of the spring inside and physics they get hit again when the weight catches up to your fist
Saps are illegal for citizens and law enforcement to carry in most every State. Don't get caught with one or you will be charged just like an illegal weapon.
I was about 24 yo and in medical training in a big county hospital in North Florida. I was leaving as three nurses in their mid-fifties to early sixties were ending their shifts. I offered to walk them out for their safety. Out of their lockers, each nurse took out at least two weapons including a lead sap, a large fixed-blade combat knife, a .38 snub nose revolver, a 9mm Browning Hi-Power automatic, a lead-filled blackjack, and a WW I trench knife with brass knuckles. They told us this was a bad area but this confirmed to me that admin was not lying. I asked if they would walk me out.
This sounds like a scene right out of a Lethal Weapon movie 😂
@@hithere4719 I was there for 4 rotations, my car was broken into each time. I saw a big white dude high on cocaine talk pleasantly with a large butcher knife buried in his back. He wasn't concerned about the bloody spit he was coughing up. Another time this 10 yo black kid came in with the clap. He said he tooled his 4 yo sister. And now had gonorrhea.
Those nurses had been there for years.
Just looking at it you would think the short moment arm wouldn't give you much leverage.
Lmmfao
On this episode of shit that never happened..
In the late 70s my wife bartended in what would probably be called a biker bar. The owner always had a Sap in his back pocket. He kept a longer one behind the bar, so he gave her some lessons in it's use.
He was very adamant about never hitting someone in the head. He preached shoulder or collar bone strikes. Or if the person had their arms raised, to strike their elbow.
I saw him use his on 2 occasions, both were drunks that wanted to fight and refused to leave. And both times he gave them every opportunity walk away. One took a swing at him, and earned himself a probable broken elbow. The second most definitely got a broken collar bone.
The first guy we never saw before or after, while the other was a regular and came back with a brace on and apologized, saying he had no memory of what happened.
Both guys were bigger than the owner but the sap ended the fight both times.
"I can't remember ANYTHING....SO VERY SORRY....Lets have a drink on it...
Make it a double"
I'm like him in that regard. Always good to be reasonable and not go overboard. The head is lethal. No need.
Where i grew up bar fights were how you made friends. 🤠
Great video. I grew up as a gringo in South America. It was dangerous to say the least. I liked saps and carried one for years for several years. Here are the benefits to carrying one (if you can do so legally):
1) Choice of Lethality - You can strike someone in a arm or shoulder and cause pain or breaks or you can hit someone in the head and change their life. Knives/firearms don't give you that option.
2) Devastatingly effective - it is surprisingly effective and breaking someone's arm or head (as you pointed out with the coconut) it will make them combat ineffective. It will likely break whatever you come into contact with.
3) Doesn't Get Blood All Over You - I carry a knife with me, but it's a tool and last defense self-defense weapon. A sap can put someone out without covering you in blood. That's really, really useful if you're in another country and are facing a possibly hostile judicial system. If you do resort to some ultraviolence, get out of there ASAP. Better to fight extraction than to face another country's judicial system.
Just speaking from some (not fun) experiences. Since you asked in your video, yes I have used one on two separate violent occasions. One was to put the fear of god into someone (used the flat to hurt, but not HURT, them) and in the other, I'm pretty positive I broke a guy's shoulder blade as he turned to run away. I didn't wait around to ask because his other buddy was trying to stab me, so I ran. Not really proud of either situation, but the folly of youth and trying to live dangerously (and foolishly) leads to dangerous situations.
Excellent observations.
I've lived in South America too. These weapons are great to strike and evade. But in dangerous places avoiding confrontation is so important. You can win a battle with the wrong people and get full of lead a week later in revenge. So being able to take small losses is important. Obviously if you think they're going to kill you then go heavy or semi heavy. It depends. I realise you're experienced so my comment is for those who aren't.
@@Pyrrhic537 Too true. After the second incident, I went into hiding.
cozy redpilled shthole cntry corner. cheers
It's easier to aim a fist. This gives options, but I treat it as secondary to the fist. A monkey fist is my preference. Or my absolute favourite is the Chinese steel ball keyring with the bell inside it. Wrap them up with that nice red jewellery string, some nice beads, and tie a nice long "decorative" tassle and a small carabiner on the other end. Looks and sounds like a Chinese good luck charm.
I carry a sap that I made. I used bb’s for the weight. I was attacked in a parking lot, a kid was trying to rob me. I am 71 years old and the kid was about 20. I struck him in the ribs just under his arm and my next blow was on the side of his neck. He went to the emergency room with two cracked ribs and a severe deep bruise on his neck. I did have to go to jail for a night because the officer thought I used excessive force. The next morning the judge set my bail at $1.00. My wife paid my bail. I was found innocent and I didnt pay even pay for a lawyer. I found out later that the guy who attacked me had a long record. They kept my sap so I went home and made another one in about an hour. I do have ccw license but I prefer to not kill anyone. I think me having a pistol and not using it is the reason I got off so easy.
I wouldnt use one anymore since they made them illegal in most states. Much like swords, switchblades, and brass knuckles, the idiot law makers deemed them illegal, so you're better off using a gun or pepperspray.
The cop who arrested you had a low IQ
A mini mag light on a key chain make a pretty effective impact weapon that doesn’t raise an eyebrow. Similar techniques.
@@markmeador1137 , great story. Thanks for sharing!
At 20 he’s not a kid and knows better!
Great presentation. I worked department store security in the 70's, back when store security could carry guns and make arrests, even with force. And we got in a few serious fights. We all carried saps in our right back pockets as a less-than-lethal option. We called them "slappers" in the Midwest. A lot of cops carried them back then also. Some even had special pockets in the upper leg of their uniform pants just made for a sap. As you said, we would have never used them on the head unless it was lethal force, which thankfully never happened during my tenure.
My favorite strike with a sap was against an arm the opponent was trying to hit me with. I'd fade back from the punch and hit on the side of the forearm. That was never lethal, it wouldn't even break a bone. But it was unexpected, and the arm you hit would be in excruciating pain and out of the fight.
A bit out of context. Still modern days german , Lederhosen ' ( leather trousers of traditional South German/ Austrian national costume) have at right leg a small pocket for carrieing a ,Nicker' knife. This fixed blades are mostly 9 to 12 cm long.
In the eighties, i worked corperate security in California. My first glimps into a badge job. What a zoo !! The Santa Cruz Boardwalk. Hand on, arrests, fights, baton use....We were fully armed, body armir when police were barely trieing them...Police radio....On a "security officer"....Craziest job I ever had. 😅
Now cops have to use very lame ASP's that are little more than a hollow car antenna. I only ever go for mace or to the gun at that point.
Good video. I love saps and blackjacks and regularly carry one and keep one in my car. The fact that police officers (including Abe Lincoln's bodyguards), mob enforcers and street toughs carried them frequently before they were outlawed, shows how effective they were. These guys wouldn't carry them otherwise.
My great uncle was a military police officer and security guard and he swore by them. He said if someone got out of line he would aim for the lower or upper arm or the thigh muscle and he said the pain of being hit by that usually took the fight out of the opponent. He cautioned against hitting the ribs as there were cases of the ribs being broken and the broken rib penetrating a lung. He said treat rib hits like headshots, only when your life was on the line.
Saps and blackjacks can also be used to jab (painful) the face and are surprisingly decent at parrying knife thrusts. Kevin Secours has many videos on self defense and a couple on blackjacks/saps and how to practice with them.
When I joined the PD in ‘74 the uniform pants had a SAP POCKET in the right rear under the regular rear pocket. Saps were issued and we carried them. I’d often move it to the front and slide it under my duty belt with the loop of the strap sticking out. Black against black made it invisible but real handy!
I was a rookie in the Police Dept in in '73 everyone had slapper in that 3rd pocket before they outlawed them for us to carry. Then most PD carried them concealed without the strap visible. The good old days
Uniform pants still have sap pockets. Most guys carry their flashlights there.
I got issues pants in 2000 that had a "jack" pocket.. great for flashlights. Our new uniform pants don't have them. I carry a Texan sap as a back up to my 9.
I’ve been retired 8 years, but our dept still authorizes a sap as a carry option. A Gonzales 415 sap. Deputy’s pants still have the sap pocket. Very effective tool, very quick to get into action.
At 71 I carry a round 1lb blackjack to the door whenever someone knocks! I don't know how well I'd do but I'm going down swinging!! I couldn't outrun a crippled snail!! But then, the perp may slip and slide on the trail of poop I'd be leavin' behind!!
A security door is a great addition to any door also.
Please adopt me 😂
Not gunna lie, your kinda of a fool to not have a gun in your home. A Sap will have a minimal chance to work against multiple intruders or very fit individuals when your 70+
My great-great uncle was sheriff of a small Nebraska town in the 1920's. I still have his sap framed. It's a nice, braided, piece of art.
I used to be a big city bus driver and often carried a medium sized sap in the small of my back, painted in the same color as my uniform shirt. I never had to pull it in ten years, but it just gave me a certain confident attitude that others could perceive. Most "bad-guys" are not stupid and are quite perceptive! We gave each other respect, which prevented a lot of problems. Old timers had a saying, "It is better to be tried by twelve than it is to be carried by six."..................elsullo
That was prolly true 20-40 years ago, but nowadays, you dont want doubt left in the hands of a trial.
I used to work nights in DC. I became friendly with an MPD officer. He gave me a SAP and told me “Never hit them in the head.” He said everything else was fair game. Oh, he also said that if I got caught with it, he didn’t give it to me.
Great info!
I've always wondered about saps and how they were used. Excellent explanation and demonstration.
I like in your BOB bag demonstration the use of the palm to the face before using the Sap. Very key movement in any self defense situation, imo. I’ve been training my entire life starting at 15 and I’m in my 50’s now. I have taught friends, family, and whomever asks self defense. I stress the palm to the face everytime. It’s your shield to blind and disorient your opponent before striking a KO blow. From a deescalating posture with hands up, you are in a direct line to palm the face, and where and how you use your fingers will determine if that move becomes a palm/eye gouge. It is my go to, and I have ended an altercation with a much larger and stronger man with just one palm strike with curved fingers poking the eyes. He was hauled off for attacking me and I was allowed to stay with no repercussions.
I like the way you present the item of choice and how you articulate.
Yea OK. In my highly paid suburban PD. That I enlisted in the '80's. The "Black Jack" was replaced, with a "sap" when it was issued, it was called a "slapper" . Mostly so that an officer could testify that he/she "deployed their slapper" while being attacked" as opposed to "I jacked the asshole to his knees". We also called a "choke hold", a "Corited Restraint". Which is what it is when properly applied,( I used to instruct it in the Military Police) and every officer had to be certified in the proper use to be indemnified if they used it. Over the years I found that the best way when dealing with violent " drunks, Junkies, and general assholes, was to deploy your chemical weapon (pepper spray) in your left hand, and your "Slapper", in your right hand. It kind of went like this. "Spray, spray, SLAP. Spray, slap, slap, slap. It never went beyond that. Just sayin'
FINALLY !!!
Someone who knows the difference between a "choke" and a 'Caratid control hold'....I trained in my acadamy in 1989, and a temporary instructor thought it was a good idea to demo what it sounds and looks like...."Just for a second"...On ME. I gasped, and found the world spinning...Sat down hard. I have had brain trauma issues ever since. How I wish people would listen. "Choke hold", "Caratid control"....Is a very dangerous thing to do. And folks think its cool. But it also makes cops look real bad.
What points would you target?
In my younger years, I had pretty good results with a Gonzalez 415, 22 ounce lead-shot sap. A few strikes to the chest of an opponent were 100% effective in removing their desire to fight. My past employer still authorizes their use. My grandfather was a deputy sheriff in Tennessee in the 1930's, and he carried a ballpeen hammer as an impact weapon. Those were different days.
Not as different as you might think. I used my roofing hammer in self defense in California in 2009. Then sent my attacker to jail for two years.
That is awesome
We must have worked for the same dept, still have my Gonzo 415👍🏻
Awesome! It is sad that people like us who promote personal protection have to talk about content in almost every video we post. Great content. Great information. And really honest discussions on mindset, scaling the use of force, and I like that you tell people they need understand the laws in their own location. I will be spending more time exploring your channel today.
Awesome to hear!
Several years ago, some undercover cops were making an arrest on Bourbon St. during the Carnival season in New Orleans. The dude was smoking some pot, not a big deal anymore, and it was at night with a hard drinking crowd on the street. As the officer was making the arrest the crowd surged toward him. He was plainclothes so it was difficult to understand exactly what was going on as it looked like it was a typical fight but when the cop pulled out his sap and started swinging it, not to hit anyone, he immediately cleared a large circle. Everyone got the message real fast. I've never seen one person establish a no go zone so quickly in the middle of a mob.
Did the sap have holes in it, making whistling sounds ?
......Just an idea......😅
Completely legal in my state, and as others have mentioned uniforms used to have a sap pocket just for them. There is a continuum of force available to you, not just with where you target but if you use the flat or the edge. People tend to only use the flat, but if you need to up the pain compliance you can use the edge as well, same amount of energy but on a much smaller surface area. Note this will likely split the skin if over a bone and it may look like a knife cut at first glance, so know what you're doing. Foster coin sap is a good option for less permissive carry. If you're traveling and crossing an area, say a TSA checkpoint, where a sap would definitely catch unwanted attention you can unload the coins into a separate bag and now you just have an empty leather bag. Hook your keys on it, it's just a big key chain. Never got a second glance.
the sap has 5 striking faces, the two flat sides the two thin sides and the end of the sap for jabbing. the thin side against bone intensifies the shock of the strike. I make saps and live in AZ where they are legal, one stays in my pocket every day, but I never have had to use one.
Got a link?
@@JR-xs1yh I don't sell yet,
I used to use them regularly in Southeast Los Angeles while on duty (80s -99s). Still have my beavertail sap. Interested in what kind of sap you use in Arizona for I have recently moved here.
@@K9SBD the saps, I have made and carry are 8 inches long weigh about 9 ounces and are flat or beavertail type, they are un-sprung and fit in the front pocket of jeans or dress slacks and are comfortable enough that you can forget they are there. Arizona laws are very friendly, carry what makes you happy
I’m in Texas and carry one in my personal and private life. Boston Jr. 4ply
I highly recommend the book: „Saps, Blackjacks amd Slingshots - a history of forgotten Weapons“ by Robert Escobar!
I've been carrying and collecting saps/black jacks and beavertails for many years and I've had to use them several times in self defense because I owned restaurants and bars in rough areas with lots of drunks and drug addicts as customers. I also own several billy clubs, expandable batons and brass knuckles. They are very effective self defense weapons but you must train with them to be able to use them properly and effectively so you don't accidentally kill someone by mistake but instead knock them senseless enough to remove them from the premises. Thanks for a great video sir and thanks for being of the very few who makes videos on these types of weapons. God bless and stay safe.
I know a guy who used one to save himself during some infamous riots. He was trying to get away, but was swarmed by people because of the way he looked. Saved his life.
I’m sure he was culturally enriched
🦍
Hi Daniel, in the UK, where I think these things originated hundreds of years ago, it’s called a cosh, or a blackjack (‘blackjacks’ or ‘jack-tars’ was the slang name for sailors). Usually made of metal (lead shot usually) inside a piece of leather, pretty much like what you’ve got there. They were commonly used by ‘press gangs’ - who were gangs of sailors that would abduct young men in the streets of naval towns in southern England and ‘press’ them into service in the Queen’s navy (Queen Elizabeth I, during the naval wars against the French and Spanish Armadas). They would get a ‘tap’ as they made their drunken way home from the pub at night and wake up at sea on an English man-o-war (naval gunship). Best regards from the Giant’s Causeway coast of Northern Ireland. 😄👍☘️
Cheers my friend!
Yes, I recall them being called a "cosh". I saw them in picture books from the '70's and it was something sailors carried. it was most often drawn like a small club or paddle and the pictures showed them with cross-hatching or netting.
Years ago, in the dim mists of time I went through training in the use of the baton and the sap. The major target we were taught to go for were major muscle groups, headshots were likely to kill the suspect and thus frowned upon. The other thing was to never threaten with a sap. It being a small impact weapon the thinking was it would give them time to prepare for it. That training was helpful when I was called upon to remove a beiigerent drunk who wanted to fight everybody at the bar I was working at the time. A quick shot to the thigh and a headlock and all the fight went right out of him.
Those flat saps were the older style. The preferred saps were made by Convoy, and were basically a lead weight on a spring covered in leather. Not allowed by the department but most of us carried them anyway.
Those round Convoy's definitely stopped the fight...back in the dark ages when I was a rookie everybody carried one...but you could always spot a Jailer from across the room...they had huge custom made flat saps that were square so they filled the entire back pocket...those things made a Convoy look wimpy LOL....
Thanks for all you my friend!
"Stay Strong, Chase Excellence Brothers."
- Godspeed
Dang good advice. Thanks for covering topics that most will not in this format. Please keep it up.
A great trick mu cousin (career detective told me). left hand goes out to push on chest, keep distance and distract. Right hand pulls (small kosh in this case) out of pocket, swings up from centreline (start with back of hand away from you and end with back of hand facing ground) and 'clock' them not super hard on the chin. I like this because it has worked for a detective many many times.
I like it. A backhand uppercut swing is definitely unexpected. People tend to be on the look out for anything resembling a conventional hand strike that almost always comes from a forehand overhand delivery. A backhand uppercut blow with sap out of nowhere.
Years ago I was I the back of a bus station and putting some samples on ice for a lab near Albany. I had an old blackjack that I used to break up bags of ice for the coolers. Three young men came down the street and two had ball bats and they were breaking windows in every parked car on our side of the street. When they got to my van I faced them and did the old slapping my hand thing with the blackjack and gave them the best tough guy look I could muster up. The only guy without a bat said “ Do you think that is going to stop us?” I replied no, but it sure is going to hurt when I stop you! They bypassed my van and continued on with their vandalism on all of the other cars.
Thanks for the video. I have one that I found in a house that I bought years ago. I keep it in my truck in the door. I never realized how effective it could be until I saw your video. Now I am reconsidering it as a true self defense tool.
They are illegal in most states. You better do your homework first.
Trying to determine that now. I live in Alabama. No permit required for a firearm.
@erClean those are 2 different purposes though. Gun is always deadly force. Saps may or may not be (depending on laws or if you strike the head).
A good gap filler with the gun would be pepperspray. But not the micro-sized keychain ones.
Wow! I had no idea of the the hard impact ! I've had one laying around for years and never carried it or really knew much about it. I thought it was meant to hit someone in the head real hard. Thanks again for the great info on another item. I will respect it more now! Keep up the great classes. 👍
😂 you dont want to kill someone, stay with limbs and collar bone.
Another great episode!
My two main SAPs were also made for me And the leather worker only agreed to do it to my specs because I was serving in a combat unit.
He made them one long, and one short to my specifications.
Mine have HUGH ball bearings on a flat quarter-inch neodymium magnet. allows me to hook it to my utility belt.
The long one is made that way in order to get it into the enemy's TEMPLE - That's a %70 death shot.
The long fulcrum allows me to hold and lock his punching//grabbing arm and WAMMO!
I have used it to wonderful effect. I have only carried but never used the shorter one
The large and longer one really performs well and you can CRACK a nose, mandible, and forehead BEFORE you ever get to his temple.
As we like to say . . . "This has been tested - It is effective"
Great video! Very clear and useful presentation about an object that's almost unknown today!
GOOD COMMON SENSE STUFF, TY SIR AND KEEP EM COMING !!!
Years ago I sewed a small pocket with a couple ounces of lead split shot into the back of a ball cap. The idea was to wear it around and if needed just grab it by the brim and whip it overhand into an assailant. Never used it, thankfully. I'm sure it would be highly illegal.
Busse Combat(knife company) used to sell those.
For the countries like mine that dont like saps, you can however carry a folding leather coin purse, and coincidentally when you have a bit of spare change in coppers in it, its almost as effective, just with the downside of if the stitching fails you get to make it rain i guess?
A padlock knotted inside a handkerchief also works in nonpermissive environments.
@@alberttang6955 Wouldn't work in the UK. Police would do you for an offensive weapon unless they were separated but then no good for quick deployment.
Glad to hear you mention the "SlapJack" but didn't deliberate on it. My father was in law enforcement back in the 50's,60's and 70's. And carried one all the time. He schooled me on it's usage. He said first off it replaced pistol whipping someone. You only unholstered your sidearm for it's intended use. He had the 12" spring loaded SlapJack. And demonstrated that you actually punched the combatant in the side of the face. And the spring loaded Jack would reciprocate rapidly several times back and forth on the skull 💀 Thanks for the demonstration 👊
Thank you, sir! I had no idea that these things were so effective until I watched your video!
Brilliant presentation! A childhood friend's Dad was an on the road salesman for an auto parts company. He called on vendors in some bad areas. He carried a revolver, but also a sap, which at the time I thought seemed wimpy and useless. Now I understand.
I have one almost identical that was my Dad's.
He was in the British army in India towards the end of of WW2 and through the partition.
Locally made and weighted with lead shot, any time he was off duty he carried it in his closed hand.
Curiosity: What is your background? I earned my Ranger tab in November 1968 and served in RVN ‘69. I enjoy your calm description and review of various self defense tools. As far as what would I do during an actual home invasion, I would rise to the occasion without a second thought. Keep up the videos, they are very educational.
When I was 14 years old, I entered the world of martial arts very in-depth ( 31 years ago) I’ve trained regularly and many styles of martial arts to be well rounded and understand more about being well rounded. I still consider myself to be a very active student in combatives as a whole and am learning seemingly more and more each day. Thank you my friend!
Welcome home sir
just watched L.A. Confidential a couple days ago and saw them using these in the beginning. I didn't quite know exactly what it was. I'd never seen that before. Thanks for educating me.
Saps were effective and discrete. The old uniform trousers used to be made with a slot pocket below the right hip pocket for carrying the thing. Sticks are useless in that you have to maintain a yard's distance in order to swing it, while you can effectively use the sap while in a bearhug or on the ground. Further, you didn't get "brutality" complaints which always happens when you are swinging a 26" baton... people don't see you using a sap. All they see is a loudmouth suddenly collapsing like he fainted. You carried it cupped in your hand under your sleeve, and just relaxed your grip for it to fall into your hand. Two varieties... the flat saps you have here; lead disks on the end of a flat spring steel blade. The second type was a round type made with cylinder of lead attached to a stout coil spring. Up north the latter type was commonly called a "convoy" and it was a favorite weapon carried by the coat and tie gangsters of bygone eras.
I've been carrying one, wedged between the drivers seat and center console for a few years now. This is my first time I've ever heard anyone really talk about them in detail
Same place I keep it in my truck. Right next to seatbelt buckle
In Germany up to 1972 two smaller weapons had been allowed. A) The Totschläger with similarities to sap or blackjack. B) The Stahlrute ( steelrod), a telescopic baton where the telescopic elements had been spiral springs , at the tip iwas a Metal ball of steel, brass or lead.
My Grandpa carried a " blackjack " (that's what they callrd em in Chicago) was a foot long with a led ball in the end not sure the type of spring ran in it Was brown leather with a little flop to it ... Badass . Good stuff bro ✌️
Great Video totally agree. I have a old sap my Grandpa had when he worked in the Cemetery for beating zombie I guess. I should tag you and show it I always imagined it being useful but never knew how great to know goes along with my PPCT training.
Boston leather makes a nice one. Both saps and brass knuckles are as legal as fresh air and sunshine in Texas 🤠
The Boston Jr. 4ply is my favorite.
God Bless Texas 🤠
I'm in Texas too. So happy when saps, blackjacks and batons became legal a few years back. I own the entire Boston range of sap sizes. I lacquered the edges for a harder contact surface when delivering an edge on bone strike.
Yet again great video sir. I like the sap bought one many years ago in the US but it was taken from me back in the good old UK
I agree with you. I think most of those gray areas you speak of comes from most people's lack of understand of "What is the legal definition of self defense?" They are not quite sure when they can or cannot use force and then how much force. Its not like TV.
It is truly an effective weapon. Glad you talked about.
Hi great video, I carry a tow hook sap, hang my keys on it, it lives on my belt and tucks into my pocket, been through airport security all over the world, never had a problem.
Because I live in England we can't own nice things, so we got to be creative. Easily hits as hard as a leather sap, I EDC it every time I leave my house, I'm never without the means to defend myself.
Great information! I carried one for 25yrs as a police officer, along with the PR24.
Saps are illegal to carry in my country but I used to own one. It was a hand or palm sap. In case anyone doesn't know, it fits over your hand with the load resting in the palm of your hand. Usually the load was lead but the one I owned had a chunk of steel sewn into the leather. The beauty of it was how unobtrusive it was, saps rely on surprise to be properly effective and, believe me, no one saw it coming. You could knock someone out cold with what looked like an open palmed slap, like swatting a fly. As someone recently said, lead with speed, devour with power.
Just a reminder, you don't need to use just the flat part of a sap, striking with the edge is also very effective too.
Definitely 👍
I guess it could be replaced with a fishing sinker and thick trace for some level of diniability.
The late Kurt Saxon wrote a piece of "instructional fiction" about a maniac who carried a fishing sinker tied to a length of strong, thin line with a finger loop at the other end. He trained to hold the sinker in one hand, with the loop 'round the forefinger of the other hand so he could flick the sinker up to impact the side of his victim's head. With almost no hand movement, the lead could be rocketed into the target.
This impressed me at the time as one of the most fiendish things ever. I wonder where he got the idea. Do you think such a device has ever been used? Do any of you remember Mr. Saxon?
@@kiwibloke2000Padlock knotted in a handkerchief will do the job in nonpermissive environments.
The slapjack was my favorite when we were allowed to carry them at the PD 44 years ago.
I loved it ‼️
I love the range of your content
That’s one of the finest compliments I’ve received my friend. Thank you!
That’s exactly what I shoot for 🙂👍
First of all, thanks for your videos! Never used a sap, nor blackjack. But I'd always suspected how lethal it could be. Thank you for clearing that up. As for those who wants to bring up the questions of what's illegal: Let's face it, legal, or not, weapons will always be sold on the black market. Nothing will ever stop that. And from the black market, weapons are more likely to wind up in the hands of those who really should not have weapons at all. Think whatever you'd like to think. And to each his own. But to be quite honest, I'd much rather be caught with it, than to be caught without it. Furthermore, whenever I die, or however, nobody's coming to the cemetery with me. You can bet on that!
Good video man, nice job. I have a smart tip for everyone, may keep you out of jail one day?
If any of you ever get caught with one during a search, for whatever reason, remember this one thing. When it comes to "non specific" impact tools like this, even some legal items in some states, the "Intended Use" can be the difference between catching a charge and going home. If you state that you intend to use, would or will use this object to cause bodily harm, you're in trouble. For example, " I carry this for my own protection ", is admitting you intend to use this to cause harm.
If you say, " this is just a tool, I use it to check my tires" then they have a much harder time proving you intended to use it to cause harm. But when in doubt, just stop talking. Same goes for pocket knives, even if it's legal sometimes.
If you're not sure of the history, I'm fairly certain these date back to the 17-1800's in England. Just like lots of folks commented, was very common in Police use. If you aren't aware, Brittish Police don't carry firearms. But i think this was very popular in cities like London amd Manchester. Both criminals and law enforcement would use these regularly.
That being said, weighted weapons have been used for a very long time. I wonder if there's a medival version of the Sap? It'd probably be gnarly as hell!
But ya, this thing is timeless. The Sap, not the Black Jack, which is the small leather baton. Also lead weighted, but with a spring from the handle through the shaft. Not that it's not iconic, I just feel the simple design of the Sap will outlast the more intricate work needed to make a black jack. Just my opinion though.
I’m getting ready to do a video comparing the two. Thanks so much!
@411Outdoors oh dude that'd be a fun comparison! If you're having trouble finding some older styles, I believe they called these things "Cosh's" in the UK. It's just a slang (he got coshed, I'll cosh ya, etc.) that means to just batter someone senseless, so tools like these carried that name.
Looking forward to the video when you're all done man. I have my suspicions who'll come out on top. I could be wrong tho?
Very interesting, thanks. I'm familiar with leather crafting so I'm making one for myself.
Very cool demonstration. Was impressed with the strike to the coconut on the clothes line. It had give to it because how it was suspended, but still cracked it. Amazing.
Love the education.
It all makes sense.
Cool accessory.
Subscribed. 👍
Tested mine on a cinderblock. Nice job it did.
As a law abiding citizen I choose to carry what I need to defend myself and hope society is civilized enough not to try and harm one another.
I will have what I need to defend myself l, regardless of the law, and I will expect a sane and emotionally mature jury would understand if I had to defend myself for any reason, it was because there was no other option.
I like your options and enjoy your videos. I also have a lot of the items that you put in your videos.
Great video. As a non-violent felon I'm very limited in what I can carry to defend myself. Because of that, I've learned the importance of de-escalation. Having said that, if push comes to shove I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six...
My dad carried a slap jack, that's what he called it. He was in a band and played music in some very dangerous places.
This is a great video because as you said, options are a way to protect your life in the worst case scenario. Thanks for your video 😂
Love your videos 📹 thanks so much 🙏
Thank you!
Cool video about another self defense item I can't legally possess in my state
California???
@@navagatingthroughthebeasts2908 of course not in Cali, but also in most states they are illegal. MN they are illegal too
I have one and is approximately 50yrs old. I love it and it is a very good self protection item. Never leave home without it.
My first training officer in the jail was 5’ 05” and a buck twenty five. He carried a 12” spring loaded beaver tail sap. My first night I got to watch it in action. The edge will significantly destroy skin if not perfectly positioned. Ribs and collar bones are good targets too.
I was impressed with how effective it was. This was 1985 and only those grandfathered in with the saps could still carry them. I was authorized to carry a 13” billy club that was very good at busting bones. Illegal as heck now in California.
My Grandfather was chief of police back home & he carried one of those every day.
I just found your channel and I am impressed with your no nonsense approach to weapons. And I love the fact that you talk about the legality of using these weapons. Like, in this video, you telling people NOT to hit attackers in the head unless it is a life and death situation because saps can be really deadly. (TBH, I thought that you were supposed to hit people in the head with a sap in a confrontation. I did not know it could kill! I thought it would just knock an opponent out! So thank you for that.)
I used to feel the same way. But within a Forest These actually can smash a skull. I could see a temple shot being terrible. I snapped a coconut like it was nothing.
Good video brother. I've said it before, Co. makes it illegal for any weapon with metal being slung, swung and carried. I always recommend nightshade style weapons made of polybicarbonate glass infused types. Non metallic, amplifies force, non-lethal. I find a small wooden dowl like a Koga is excellent also.
I carried a Delta Dart dropped down into my boot for a while. At first, I had to check to make sure it was still there because it was so comfy.
One thing not mentioned is that if you hit with the edge of this weapon it will reliably break/tear skin open
In the movie Red Dragon he knocks out the lady with one of these and i never believed it could work. Had no idea the power of these things. Amazing video
I lost my drivers license in 1984 and had to transit New York City by train to get from Long Island to Westchester, as I had to do at the time. NYC was a crack pit of murder then and I had to walk from penn station to grand central each trip. My brother was a cop, and gave me a sap to carry. One day walking to grand Central station, an unmarked police car pulls up in front of me on the sidewalk, cops drew on me and detained me. They said they saw a weapon in my back pocket they thought was a gun. They searched the tops of door awnings nearby, the gutters, etc. while they asked me about it. Finally, I was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon (saps illegal), spent the night in a crazy jail where drugs were almost openly sold. I chipped my tooth there. I think i plead guilty and got a fine. It was a misdemeanor. Anywho, that’s life…loaded with irony and unforeseen consequences, which applies to those who think too much of self defense and indeed may be eager to defend themselves. And, if I had been confronted, robbed, etc. in my travels, what I would do with a blackjack/sap thing anyway is unknown. lol. I live in florida now, have plenty of easily obtainable legal weapons, but I am not sure why. I would rather give over any physical thing than kill anyone, and odds of someone simply trying to kill me are infintesable, so…..
Cool video man
I have a longer Sap, with a braided leather middle, about 10 inches in total. It can be used to hit someone across the back of the neck and it will put them out cold almost instantly, it disrupts nervous system. The lead ball all the end won’t even really need to make a direct impact, it’s more or the length of the Sap going perpendicular across the neck
Looks like a nice gift for Mom & Grand Ma !
My grandfather was a Corrections Officer in Georgia and was attacked by an inmate who had a horse shoe stake and broke my grandfathers arm in the attack. He grabbed his sap from his back pocket and neutralized this vicious attack. He attributes that sap for saving his life. This in the late 50s or 60s. I got one and carried it once or twice on duty but all of us (several had them) were told they were not permitted. This was in late 1972.
When I was a rookie police officer, my FTO was a former Chicago PD officer. We were strictly prohibited from carrying saps and black jacks. While we were wrestling a very drunk and large individual. The FTO pulled out a sap and gently tapped him behind the ear with the sap. The guy was disoriented for about 20-30 seconds but he never went unconscious. The FTO then told me, “you didn’t see that”. That was over 36 years ago. His sap was filled with #9 bird shot. The lead wasn’t solid like yours appears to be.
I carried and used a sap on the west coast for 34 years LE. We carried the Gonzales model 415. To this day, my old employer still allows the sap and some guys do so accordingly. I loved my sap. Ours were made with lead shot sewn in heavy leather. My dad carried a “beavertail” sap, but the lead fill ones are way more effective.
Very valuable information here. You sir, are greatly appreciated
@@salvaged_wretch you as well!
I’ve owned and used them for nearly 25 years. I’ve always preferred a smaller, lighter sap. Very judicious use of a light sap to the head will not be lethal except under the most extreme circumstances. Eye sockets, jaw, and nose are the best targets. I used to refer to mine as the light switch. It did not generally render the target unconscious, but would rattle them badly and make them non combative. When using a lighter sap on muscle groups or pressure points I would strike with the edge on the sap. That would give performance similar to a blackjack or short baton. I used my favorite Boston Midget so much that it had to be recovered in new leather 3 times.
What weight did you use, also did you want smaller to conceal better?
Carried on and off duty as a law enforcement officer. 34 year career. Authorized to carry for 10 years of that time along with SAP gloves. Both very effective in defense.
These Saps are a very effective and concealable defense tool. As far as I'm aware they are NOT allowed in Canada. Which is weird in a way. Because I have a pair of Sap Gloves that are legal. I really like these gloves they fit perfectly and are very effective. I think that the Sap has the potential to be very lethal if used with that in mind.
you can easily make one
My uncle rip Stanley he was a North Philly cop in the early 70s to90s after the Marines he became cop walking the beat in North Philly under cover detective he called it a Slappy had a spring and lead ball wrapped in leather he carried it every day and his 357 with moon clips he loved the Slappy . Good content 👍
Fun tip, a Bar of soap tied into a long sock (the thick work sock kind) makes a great swing mace, and its 100 % legal carry !
As a kid growing up in NYC in the 1950s-60s, the beat cops carried a long night stick (straight, no side arm), a slap jack in a special pocket on their upper right pants leg, a 4" 38 special revolver (Colt or S&W) in a strong side holster and often a 25 cal semi auto in a pocket or behind their belt buckle (that was not authorized) as a back up. Half the families on my block were cops or firemen. Off duty the cops carried the slap jack and a small revolver (often an old Colt 32 or something of that size) as regulations required being armed 24/7. Several told me that in a close up scuffle nothing was better than the slap jack.
Slapjacks are what we call em. I was a kid when the police were able to have em and have seen them used! Man, a slapjack will put you on your knees QUICK!!! Even if you see it coming and put your hands up, bye bye hand!!! Time to give these a second look. As an effective (mostly) non lethal deterant, they work really well... Great video!!!
Wow! Interesting, I never heard of the leather saps. Thank you for your good common sense !
Flat sap, black jack.. I ordered mine from Sa-So over 40 years ago in my early 20's. It's maybe 10" long with the sewn in strap. Heck of a tool. Never had to use it on anyone. It stays inside my home, always has. I might have carried it when younger it night because it fits so perfect in the back pocket.
Back in my younger and wilder days I bought mine from an Indiana State Trooper back in the early 90’s who wasn’t allowed to carry one anymore. I carried it all the time when working as a bouncer in mob run strip joints and as armed security in the projects of Gary IND. back when it was murder capital of America. Also when I moved back to Chicago and became a Repo-man, it came in mighty handy then to . I have it to this very day and it is still lovingly cared for .
I was a Denver Cop for 30 years retired now from 1980 to 2010. We made the SAP famous. The Denver Sap. I carried it for 30 years and used it instead of a night stick. Now outlawed.
I used to depend on my fists when I was younger, but now I realize I need to keep a "helper" handy, so I keep an 1 1/4" metal nut on a nylon twine in my pocket and an aluminum T-Ball bat in my P/U. I feel much safer that way.
T-ball bats can be picked up cheap at yard sales, and are an ideal size. They're small enough to swing one-handed, very quickly. Leave the price sticker on. "Why do you have that bat in your vehicle?" "I picked it up for my nephew/grandson."
I'd also add to keep a ball & mitt in the car as well. Play catch with the boys when your chillin. @@666toysoldier
A Masterlock padlock on a cord is easy to explain away if challenged.
I heard someone else mention if you keep a bat in your vehicle to also have a ball and/or a ball glove to explain it away to the police so it’s difficult for them to arrest you for having a weapon as opposed to sports equipment.
Youd be far better off with pepperspray. You can disable someone with that from 8-10 feet without worrying about swing and a miss.
An unrelated subject. A small fishing weight with boot string is a great good luck charm. I’ve been asked by inquisitive fellows why I keep one in my back pocket and I tell them simply calmly and politely as possible “it’s my property sir” If I get any follow up questions I refer them to the sporting goods store I legally purchased my property at.
I'd never heard of these, thanks for doing a video on them!