Why Do Critics Hate Joker? | Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 3 лис 2019
- In this video essay we explore the reasons why film critics, movie goers and news outlets are so divided over Todd Philips’ new joker movie, and how the controversy surrounding it predates Joaquin Phoenix's portrayal of the iconic comic book villain.
#Joker #JoaquinPhoenix #ToddPhilips
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"The movie doesn't cause violence but shows why violence happens"
- whoever made this before me
People low key did nasty protests in middle east dressed as him
I like the film but there are WAVES of improvements to make
Pacing sucked & editing was meh & OH GOD DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE COLOR CORRECTION
Ashton Todarello don’t worry bro he is probably hitting some weird drugs
@@ja-x197 i will have what he is having
This movie does not show why violence happens. I swear the spirit of science is completely lost to the West. First the spirit was God, then it became human, and now it even becomes a mob.
"Another century of readers and the mind itself will stink."
@Ashton Todarello Thank you for proving my point.
Remember that time when Silence of the Lambs was the best film of the year and everyone became cannibal?
Great times
@@lavenderhuman 😂😂😂
Both world hunger and homelessness went down
@@liquidsleepgames3661 dude
@@dalepadman7540 what?
Yes, how DARE they depict a mentally ill person, who is denied treatment and regularly abused and spirals out of control, as a sympathetic character?
Clearly poor, lonely, vulnerable and abused people are the REAL villains in the world....
I mean joker is very clearly a villain, it's just horrible people created him, so I guess they're also villains
@@Skelyboss One of the points of the film is that this could've been avoided. Joker is very much a villain, yes, but Arthur Fleck still had a chance. Critics flocked to the perception that people would rally behind the person who snapped, rather than empathize with the mentally ill person he was before.
@@Skelyboss It's the same tragedy witnessed in Frankenstein (the novel, not the movies) wherein 'Adam' is morally responsible for his monstrous actions, but the reader is not intended to absolve anyone else for their own monstrous actions or cruelties either.
In 'murica is the motto.
the problem here is the edgelords who consider themselves a joker irl because they suffer from fake depression and want attention
I think its really poetic irony that the film basically tried to hold up a mirror to society showing how our collective culture can lead to such negative effects, and much of society and the media basically threw a tantrum over it, proving the legitimacy of its point
yes! yes! yes! yes! yes! yes! If i pass by a beggar and feel bad. if there is conflict in my conscience about it or im confronted about it I dont rage, ignore and dismiss this, i admit that even though i cant save the whole world I AM ALSO SELFISH AND SELF ABSORBED and i need to atleast do something small.
Facts.
Exactly!
Critics: This movie might cause an act of violence.
People after seeing joker: *Finds the nearest stairs and bathroom to dance in.*
chris z *cry in
Not in South America, look what happened one week after the movie premiere. I am not telling that the Joker inspired the crowd to defend their rights but it tells you to do it is the best choice. /srry about my english.
@@bullagamer The people on the streets in SA are mostly families and peaceful protesters. The reason they went out onto the streets was the injustice dealt by the government to its people and the beat that made them protest were the raised Public transportation prices.
To pee*
Go to the Bronx stairs
The film didn't glorify his actions. You just felt bad for him. No one would want to be that joker. He was full of pain and sadness covered by a laugh and a smile.
Without the joker, people would still be blind and a puppet of the rich.
@@shem7146 lol no. it does provide conversation and concern to the matter, but to say the Joker is the sole reason is asinine
The music is sad and people are horrified and the city becomes an antifa Riot and he spends the rest of his life in a padded cell so of course he doesn't get away with it
that wasn't the point though, mediacritics weren't afraid that regular, 'normal' people who are reasonably happy or successful would want to be like that joker. they thought the film showed a violent outlet to those who already feel or see themselves full of pain and sadness, to those who think they themselves are a lot like the early stages of that character or at least find themselves in a similar situation. I don't really agree with that sentiment as well, but I think you looked at the criticism from the wrong perspective.
its character depth.
Remember when Sonic was released and everybody started walking at a faster-than-average pace?
Disgraceful!
I was horrified when my son broke the sound barrier after we finished watching sonic, I dont even gonna watch mario, I have a pet turtle you know?
I’ve loved the film.
I think people expected a fictional Batman supervillain movie, while we saw a movie about a man falling deep down in madness in a real dark society.
*Media:* "If people see "Joker", they'll start killing each other. That's just how people are these days."
*Joker:* "Do you know what it's like out there, Murray? Do you ever actually leave the studio?"
Bravo, that was fucking excellent
Damn
Damn dude.
They just don't like it because it's targeted at them, the media
Exactly this.
Joker: hated by critics
*Also Joker: **_Nominated for the most Oscars this year_*
Cristinita it wasn’t hated at all. Its got mixed to positive reviews. Stop blowing things out of proportion
starkingbiker lmfao you gotta chill. I’m playing off by what the video is titled. 😂
Cristinita this depressing kinda lacklustre film is very outdated. Only Unbreakable, managed to ground a comic film in reality. This movie is just Sad! Like awful sad lol
I really do not get all these right wing videos about Joker claiming critics and "the left" hated this movie. I'm definitely on the left and I loved it for being a voice for the poor and the mentally ill. I started clapping in the theater when he shot those pukes on the subway. And the movie ended with a glorious Antifa like clown party riot.
Also Joker, panned in nearly every category, including Best Picture (Lol).
Joker: *tells people the struggle of people living with mental illness and ridiculed by society*
Critics: noooooo clown man bad
Just like me when I was little
Joker is bad just because
To OP.
How old are you?
This reminded me of "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Joker kills 7 people in 2 hrs
Media: The movie incites violence
John Wick kills 7 people every 2 mins
Media: That's fine
@Yashua Fradkin soooo? Relatable or not, john wick was wayyy more violent then joker.
@Yashua Fradkin Ok I see where you coming from but the media is concerned about joker causing violence, yet he only killed 7 people. The most brutal kill was randall, even then they managed to make us forget that he killed him by making the whole Gary cant reach the knob joke. So it didnt even feel violent. John wick on the other hand kills with a freaking pencil, which is realistic as shit. If you're talking about realism then a pencil kill is definitely as realistic as a gun or scissor kill so you tell me. Can john wick show violence? Yes. Does the media complain? No. Which is so stupid because the movie revolves around john wick killing people.
@Yashua Fradkin plus joker does way more worse things in the comics. But ofc since it's only a comic book and not a movie, they let things slide. Frozen 2 had a machete brawl, however the media somehow still "let it go". It's so unfair how they treat joker just because of how realistic the movie was. Well no shit, it's meant to portray a man with mental illness in a horrible society. The media is just to scared to admit that they sometimes cause some of the problems that are presented throughout the movie.
@Yashua Fradkin yes it is, all you need to do is aim at the right area
@Yashua Fradkin well i could, but i don't have some one to test with
but the thing i don't like from JW is, some of his killing is... unnecessary, like throwing axe to his weaken opponent's head
i like the action but for some kill... i don't say i comfortable for it
Kingsman: Nah
John Wick: Nah
Deadpool: Nah
Joker: *THIS MAY CAUSE ACTS OF VIOLENCE*
those other 3 movies "glorify" violence way more than joker does too.
None of those top 3 characters are direct reflections of the average isolated incel young boy. Joker is. Dumb boys see him and kind of see a reflection of themselves, and might wonder if they could get away with shit like he does.
@@davidsirmons People don't need a movie to be the catalyst that sets them off into a blood hungry rampage. I found Arthur relatable. Fuck when I was a kid I used to hang out with kids like him because we never belonged anywhere. At least I wasn't alone when I was humiliated and bullied.
Dumb boys. Ok, yeah and you're really smart by that characterization........
They are sad and desperate. They possibly have delusions of grandeur, PTSD from parental abuse, and/or a dissociative disorder kind of like Arthur.
Your lack of empathy makes the world a shitty place.
@@davidsirmons False, the media is scared cause they demonize men especially white men. And they want to be able to demonize ostracize people without them getting the blow back. The media are cry bullies.
@@davidsirmons Did you think this opinion would get you laid?
What I find fascinating about the critics who took to tearing the movie apart for "right-wing politics", is that the plot of the film centres around the issues of wealth disparity and underfunded social programs, making a point to single out American healthcare, very much loaded with "left-wing" ideas. It's heavily implied that had his access to mental health services not been cut off he would have remained relatively positive.
I think the real issue was that it was sympathetic to alienated young men (while still portraying them as dangerous) at a time when the media is/was going hysterical over incels and “toxic masculinity.” I think if the movie had a female protagonist it would have gotten a much different media reaction.
Because nobody is in politics for the issues, people just want to root for their football club.
The left is also radically shifting further away from the center so moderate leftwing is almost rightwing in the eyes of some.
The simple answer is probably that the protagonist was a white loser male or incel as the social media drones like to call them.
Identity politics supersede social issues to the point that issues can be ignored as long as it happens to the right guy.
basically, if Arthur was a person of color and/or LGBTQ or a girl, everyone would call it a "sjw" movie......
I don't think critics actually care about that but their concerns for the film were a bit too much.....
it's because american left aren't actually left. they're just selfish right wing capitalists who wants to play pretend as good people
@@samurguy9906 If the movie had a female protagonist critics would have still shit on it because the lead wouldn't have been a flawless mary sue.
I was so indulged into the movie by Phoenix’s performance that after Arthur shot Murray, I felt a sudden feeling of redemption. Absolutely phenomenal performance.
In the movie... The media hates Joker
In reality... The media hates Joker
Not all
Whatch the film theory
@Madalin Grama yeah just throw random movie names and then throw non sequitur without actually explaining why the movie is actually bad. By your own logic, all those movies are rip off from each other? Just because they deal with mental issues? Wow!
If you represent those critics, you're all intellectually lazy and dishonest to boot! This movie is a mirror and I think only those sociopaths in the media and academic echelons would have a problem.
These people are currently abusing us while trying us to blame the left or the right or other boogeymen. The movie points the finger at society at large, everyone included and it's unnerving and supposed to be.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza awesome
@Madalin Grama you're just giving a biased opinion why you didn't like it and then still did not go into detail why the story is bad. The filmography is clearly 80's inspired and any film school director or student will tell you this.
Fight Club is good but overrated. Let me nitpick it the way you did this movie. It was stupid on how his followers didn't see him talking to himself. They saw him "talking to Tyler" but nobody questions him what is he talking about or anything?
See what is wrong with me here? I'm being too technical and so are you about him getting away with stealing his mother's file. Why couldn't the nurse simply believe she misplaced it or lost it?
Cringe? Really? You sure you don't suffer from some type of socially or situational dysfunction? That scene served to show his further descent into madness and how he saw everything around him as a joke. This movie was never meant to be seen as a typical comic book movie and the director even said it.
The scene with DeNiro was perfectly delivered. He was someone Arthur admired but made fun of him, further showing us how people with mental instability are usually made fun or dismissed by those whom they like the most. My friend is bipolar, and he said that scene felt real as all hell.
This movie, like I said, is a mirror, which went over your head completely. Fight Club isn't a mirror nor were the others you claim (yet hasn't explained) ripped off. And by all purposes, the Joker as a character and his multiple choice past concepts have existed way before Fight Club. So who ripped off who if we are to be that technical?
The joker didn't imagine another him, the only person he fantasized about was the black woman he had a crush on. That's another theme people with delusional ideation behaviors engage on.
And yes, you're supposed to notice he was fantasizing once you saw her agree with his mad plans. This movie didn't set out to be that esoteric. Jack's issues were internal and revolved around his personal issues within his lack of confidence and his uneventful life (coupled with other things the movie brings out like testicular cancer etc).
Your criticism seem like more personal preference rather than why the movie is bad. Movies having just one common denominator doesn't make one a rip off.
Want a better example of a RIP off where one could understand why someone would believe so? Pocahontas, Ferngully, the Last Samurai, Avatar.
Those share way more similarities than the very movies you bring up.
I'm not saying this movie is a complete masterpiece. I do have issues with it as well. The ending for example was a little extra. I would be more impressed if he didn't kill her but fucked therapist mentally, left her screaming while walking off smiling. It would keep us curious as to what he did or said to her.
Other issues as well.
The setting is clearly the 80's lol. I'm an 80's kid and can see the design of the time there. Just because we didnt see political, musical nor other cultural themes of the time isn't relevant. His live was devoid of those things as someone society cast out, so he would be outside those themes and the only hint of it was the talk show he liked, and only because he liked the guy.
“Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."
Who said that
@Kay A thanks
Who claims that quote
@@CallowaySchmidt Late reply but Cesar A. Cruz
"Any sentence can be put into quotation marks"
It also singles out media for their hounding of individuals and groups (like Arthur was on the TV show) just for laughs and views, totally neglecting how massive attention and negative feedback effects the psyche of many, making them retort to ways of violence and harmful behavior.
And media doesn't want itself to be painted as the villain.
Its so ironic that this movie literally depicts what the media does to said mentally ill people. And the media does it in real life upon the depiction its kinda funny tbh.
I was scared to watch it after all the negativity. People said it was misogynistic and being a lady I don't usually enjoy lady-hating media. BUT I thought it was AMAZING. It transported me into another world, a world of the invisible men. It was as beautiful as it was devastating. I've seen it twice, will probably watch it again. A+
Whether people liked it or not, there is no denying that this movie is a unique experience that goes to lengths that very few movies today would go to to actually connect to people. It's that connection to a group of people that reveals the faults of society, and you can either understand that connection and love the movie or fail to do so and hate it. The fact that this movie can be so critically divisive over something like this is a prime example of the quote that "All great art is hated."
Seriously, this movie is a masterpiece and I feel like there will never be another big-company film that will go this far in their attempts at creating content that appeals to everyone.
I'm absolutely not trying to be mean, but what do you mean by lady hating media? For years now the media has been so far left that they hate on men. So many movies depict women as strong and independent, while depicting the men as disposable, stupid or evil.
Ghostbusters 2016, captain marvel, oceans 8, the new Charlie's angels just to name a few.
I'm genuinely curious which films you're talking about.
@@KrazyKyle-ij9vb bro it’s just a shameless rip off of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy.
@@fuzzypanda1684 as a girl all i see are posts and comments hating on women and its so sad and annoying. i honestly just think its a target demographic, i dont know how. you see the part thats targeting you and i see the one targeting me.
@pope That's very possible, the algorithms are designed to segregate us into groups and pit us against each other by showing us completely different things so we hate each other. It's sad.
By blaming this movie we stop ourselves from actually having to deal with the issues it addresses.
Dumpster Cub this’s my favorite comment
It's much easier for people to blame an issue on one thing rather then to think about more complex factors and how to fix them.
Somebody said it
Carlos Velasquez facts
Where do we start?
“The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth,”
Bruh. The only one that will burn is "the child". You people watch too much TV.
Do you even go outside? one man can't burn a village :/
ImPoppy only YOU can prevent wild fires 🐻
@@impoppy9145 Dude, it's just a African saying. Chill, looks like you people judge too quick.
@@impoppy9145 maybe not, but a lot of people in the village gonna burn in that fire
@@impoppy9145 It's figurative, 'burn it down' could mean getting revenge in that way they believe is right.
Critics are like "wine tasters", a useless profession that self-promote their necessity. "critics" (rottentomatoes) gave Joker a 6/10 while giving A Little Late with Lilly Singh an 8/10.
Rotten tomatoes is good cause I can see the audience score, statistics always wins over curated reviews.
Maybe you're just listening to bad critics. Or maybe you don't understand why people dislike things you like.
In some cases i would agree, but don't dismiss critics in general. A good critic doesn't tell you if a piece of media is good or bad, but will present a new and interesting way of understanding a piece of media that opens up further discourse around the work.
@@Ginronmaster1994 Yeah but most critics are just bullshitters who are paid to spread a certain opinion and rarely go against the status quo. It's a massive waste of time looking for good critics when one can just not bother watching shitty movies.
@@Ginronmaster1994 I agree, but there are so many critics who are not smart or insightful people in any way, but just people high off their own fumes because no matter how stupid your opinion is, if you go online there's always other losers who will validate you.
I honestly never even heard of this movie before yesterday, and went to watch it. I think the thing that scares people about it is that it makes it too easy to imagine going from "unhappy with society because it's hard to conform to social mores" to "rejects social mores entirely". The line between those things *is* a fine one, and we *do* live in a world where it's getting finer. The scene where he's talking to the clerk in the hospital trying to get his mom's medical records was the point where I actually stopped thinking of the character as a movie villain and started to identify with him, and that's AFTER he committed three murders. If the goal of the movie was to scare people with it's plausibility, it got there, clown riots and live TV executions notwithstanding. It is VERY easy to imagine the world changing in a way where the protagonist of this movie a seen as a symbol for justifying disastrous social decisions, especially after the "defund the police" riots of last year.
That said, critics going out of their way to create a connection to real-life disaffected groups of people is making that risk worse, not better. If people see some character as potentially sympathetic to people who's opinions and behavior they don't like, it's because they're seeing how those opinions and behaviors can be justified. And if they can see that, then they can see that there's a need to fix underlying problems with representation and disaffection, since it's necessarily clear that the justification has always existed and isn't ever going to go away.
Honestly, my opinion is that they were expecting a DC comics villain origin story adapted from the Killing Joke, and they instead got an overly absurd depiction of depression that actually shows the effects of depression on a single member of society.
So they felt betrayed and decided to write about how terrible it is, and it backfired.
I think the live TV execution is plausible, but Murray's handling of the situation was extremely implausible, an actual good journalist would ask many questions and never give an opinionated judgement to a psychotics murderer to his face, the real Joker would not have listened to reason and would have killed Murray without hesitation or reason.
This is why I personally think the fundamental flaw of the movie is tying the supposedly evil Joker with the sympathetic poor Arthur who just can't have a break. It turns the movie from this look into the effects of depression into an anticipation for Arthur becoming the pure evil villain we all know and love, which never happens. This flaw however played to its advantage, now more people think about depression and mental illness than they did before the movie, but if anything, I don't think it was depressing enough to fully showcase it.
@@a.h.s.3006 well some of the implausible stuff might be arthur's mental illness and imagination
Why do critics think a movie will motivate me to kill someone, I feel more motivated to kill someone when I lose in Mario kart, not by a movies.
Lol it's true, stupid bananas
Yeah for some reason Mario Kart brings out every last little bit of rage in my being.
100 true
@Mannie Illescas *They're
@@kermitthefrog5028 bananas ? Xd
critics: Joker could cause violence
also critics: *John Wick is a legendary film*
I think the difference in people's minds is the story behind. Joker acknowledges that he is a villain and has done bad things but also a victim. But still people will see a villian. John wick is shown to be a hero, his actions are portrayed as righteous and just despite him being seen as a villain if it were from a different perspective.
The point is both using violence to solving problem either good or bad, killing is their business
Amelia Dunlap ah i see. good point.
John wick is a legendary film
Someone stole my dog time to kill. EVERYBODY.
NGL Keanu is a saint but come on.
The joker doesn’t make me want to cause anarchy, but instead donate to mental health foundations
I guess you see what you want to see. To me, the early parts of this movie was a criticism of the cold hearted de-prioritizing of less affluent people, of people who fall through the cracks, committed by both political parties throughout the last decades. This grounds the story, only to then transition, very smoothly in this case, to the slightly more unlikely creation myth of The Joker. I'm no massive fan of comic books, but I've gathered that these kinds of storylines are highly valued among comic book fans, and as such this movie is a masterpiece on those grounds alone. As for the psychological aspects of The Jokers mind, I have no real competence in this field other than to say that it feels real enough for most of the journey. I guess the idea then is that the complex character of The joker is from now on more or less constantly in a state of psychosis. I don't know how realistic that is, but at some point we have to acknowledge that we have arrived in comic book land.
Easy: critics hate the Joker because they're the antagonists in the story. They're the people in the movie who would rather shut people like Arthur Fleck out of society rather than do the right thing and actually try to help him.
that's the truth though
Yeah no, it's because it's a flat-ass, superficial and predictable cringe-fest.
@@nenntmichbond lmfao
@@joeosbornegregory8333 I'd argue it's a lot more layered then most people realize at first glance because it has an interesting way of blurring the line between the real world vs what's going on in Arthur's head that warrants a repeat viewing, but you're correct, not everyone is going to like this movie, and that's perfectly fine because it wasn't meant to appeal to everyone.
more accurately they are the antagonists. Arthur is clearly the villain, but he is the protagonist. Media is the catalyst to his case. The foil. Remember, protagonist =/= good guy, and antagonist =/= bad guy.
Why critics hate joker: cause people don’t know what rated R is
Because there liberals
I have a really hard time believing a critic didn’t like a movie because it’s R rated.....considering critics review R rated movies all the time and seem to enjoy them just fine?
No, because they don't get it as what its ending says
From what I’ve read most seem to think it’s somewhat shallow and pretends to have a profound meaning that simply isn’t there.
not even mental illness right? sometimes something like social anxiety will get you bullied and hurt. so sad.
i really enjoyed how they tied the origins of batman in the end. almost made me cry how good it was. joaquin is such an amazing actor.
I've recently seen this film for the first time, I have to say the performance was truly amazing, I loved the story which had hooks in the real world. Really well done and had me glued to the screen throughout
Critics hate the Joker because they didn't get the "joke" just like Arthur said they wont 😂
They were waiting for The Punch -----?
Raafi Gul this comment is played out
Because critics only understand elementary level jokes. They should just stick with MCU jokes.
It was a okay movie with great acting
@@xboxisthegoatbox3368 That makes no sense. The acting is great because the plot is great and demands it.
Joker: is literally R rated
Haters: omg so violent I didn't expect that
I remember the Punisher movies getting the same hate.
They act like they never seen a r rated film before.
I have yet to see any sort of hater towards this movie 🤔
(The media doesn't count)
What does r rated mean
@@jimohare2665 restricted to ages 18+
This movie is a masterpiece. It tells us the side of the people who are not heard because of their statute. I remember during college a professor asked me, Are criminals born or made? And this movie just gave me a definite answer that they can be made. The world can make an innocent one a criminal and this movie just explains it.
Let's forget about 'silver spoon' criminals throughout the world. Often getting into very important positions in society
When these so called "critics" start talking down "alienated young men", you know where they're coming from - And they're not worth listening to at all.
Its not that far off though. I've seen a lot of people (some i would defo see as incels) who seem to see the Joker as a hero and who want to be like him. These people also identify with the Columbine Shooters or Elliot Roger
Critics: "Don't go see Joker in theater you could be killed!"
Reality: 100 gang members wielding machetes attack theater watching Frozen II
than217 this deserves more likes
Wait, really?
@@ManubibiWalsh Did it happen..... LMFAOOOOOOO
Jeez.
@@than217 the hell....
The color grading of this film alone should already get a 10/10.
Agreed, it's golden.
They used some different type of camera, don't rember the name
IKR totally agree.. pure genius!
@@kannan-sar1758 Arri Alexa 65.Three super35 sensors aligned vertically with Arris new color science and dynamic range
Nah 90000/10
Even though I personally think think the Joker's a good movie, I understand the other side. Most of the comments are ridiculing that its not like everyone will turn into their own forms of the joker. However, even if one or two people are inspired by the movie to cause a movement like this, it poses an opportunity for them to 'justify' their actions. But again, a movie alone will never be the main contributing factor on inspiring one to murder another. There are always so many other experiences and circumstances that people have which would lead them to do such things.
This was the last movie I saw in theaters before the pandemic hit. I went to see it three times and have the DVD. One of the very best films I've seen. It touched profound chords inside me. And I'm neither male nor American.
The movie isn’t for these people
Cause they wouldnt get the joke.
They were looking for the punchline but there is no punc..........
@@zurajanaikatsurada6965 its not a joke
It was a okay movie held up by superb acting
Because they are the “rich” people that Arthur called out
Knock knock: you're family's dead, they got hit by a drunk driver!
The media was acting like Joaquin Phoenix was going around as John Wick in clown makeup
He was like Cameron poe from con air he only killed those 3 peiple because they were bad people
Can you imagine, he leaves Gotham and learns gun-fu, just to come back and wreak havoc
He kills like 6 people in the movie, john wick movies show the main protag killing double that ammount in less than 2 minutes
xd
But John Wick is fine cuz Keanu is only killing dozens and dozens of bad guys right? I love Keanu Tho lol
They say its bad, because this film exposes things.
Love your choice of background music @Masters of Movies. Reminds me a lot of the music from Silent Hill 2, specifically the song titled , "A World of Madness".
Critics don’t like Joker because they don’t get the joke, the joke being that they’re too afraid to handle a movie that portrays something that is real and happens in every day life.
And Joker's response to the media: Btw, do you know how I got these scars? 😂😂😂
Madalin Grama I’m a leftist, so bear that in mind. I’m not some right wing reactionary making this Claim: They don’t like the joker because of the whole incel narrative and mass shooting bull shit, plus Todd Phillips comments. They’re didn’t like it going into it, because They had the idea that this movie was solely about pissed off white guys and not mental illness and the way in which the system helps shape you as a person. This is a absolutely as good as taxi driver. And I like taco driver. From a leftist perspective, it’s just good politics. It’s about how the neo-liberal system takes a feeling we all feel, disenfranchisement and alienation, and deflects that’s away from class consciousness towards your own personal vendetta which is then acted out on the world for not acknowledging your pain, all while you yourself (the joker in this sense) hasn’t actually acknowledged the underlying cause of that pain. The best line in the movie is his social worker saying “these people don’t give shit about you. They don’t give a shit about me.” She offered him the political olive branch and he instead chose to remain apolitical.
@@jayt7178 congrats on helping create sjw and the far left asshat
Jay T I actually hate that line. Ruins all subtlety that scene could have had, and the psychiatrist has never previously been shown to care about Arthur herself.
Jay T
It’s not about politics. You fail to realize that. It’s not about politics, okay? It’s about a man who’s been abandoned by society because his mental illness.
Remember when breaking bad came out and everyone became meth cooks
Remember when Dexter came out and everyone became murderous psychopaths who dump their victims in the ocean not far away from Miami?
Remember when Homicide Hunter came out and everyone became a detective?
When my little pony came out and everybody became rainbow horses
Remember when purge came out...
@@sahilmandlik7950 we're living in one
Great video, with some great topics and discussion!
Straight white dudes: refuse to commit acts of violence after watching Joker
Some Japanese guy on a subway: *fine I'll do it myself*
Joker: *Portrayal of how mental illness can take a huge toll on someone and shows how we as a society can sometimes create the monsters that we all fear*
Media: "This movie is dangerous because it could inspire a real life act of violence!"
Deadpool: *Guy brutally kills people and humors it*
Media: "Ha ha funny man kill people and make 4th wall joke"
It has more Oscar nominations than any other movie this year. Clearly critics loved it. Quit the vicitim narrative
Joker: we live in a society
You guys: wow this social commentary... about how society is really fucked up... I mean...that's deep. Such a deep movie
BingBongBarn I’m not talkin about the critics, I’m talkin about the media outlets who kept saying this movie was dangerous and clearly trying to inspire some kind of act of violence to justify their views.
Sylvia Procópio I like how you just instantly jump to the conclusion that I’m one of the incels who thought the films moral spoke to them on a deep personal level.
@@procopias7571 You seem to be perturbed by the idea that people who are mistreated can produce more consequences than the system they failed to conform to.
It's telling that their reaction is "Alienated young men could see him as the hero"
Rather than "this brings awareness and we should help alienated young men"
Alienated young men are the problem to them no matter what.
How dare we actually stop tragedies? How dare we actually help incels become better people and not demonize and abandoned them? Our society is lazy and awful.
How selfish can you get?! How are they supposed to get by without misinformed fear mongering tragedies? They can’t report just straight up LIES, they can only do that for so long until people start to actually think!
@@isaacinkwell haha, yep
Wich is ironical since social alienation is what solidifies the mentality leading to many kinds of retaliation.
@@isaacinkwell yes you're right. The people who commit the crimes are actually victims of ill treatment and neglect. Because of bias and demonisation, they're thoroughly convinced and forced to do the things that they did. But society and the media makes one-sided reports and fans the flames of hysteria encouraging the criminals to continue their career
The Joker is just looking for the truth lol. That's, like, a majority of the movie. Despite being steeped in delusion, the Joker is reaching out for the truth, and it did indeed set him free.
His name is Arthur why won't you call him that?
This is the reason i watched Joker in secret. My dad restricted me from watching it because it was "violent" and had "bad influence".
The way the critics responded to Joker proved the entire point of the movie and what it was trying to say
YES
It's that desire to dismiss the blame on society that the movie highlights. There's a bunch of people out there who will never accept their role in atrocities like this.
The media is the one who steps over a person dying in the street (after they record the suffering of course)
@@kmacadaeg7 But is it really the media, or the individual? Sure people record rather than help, but that's still on us as a society, as a people. Though, that's just my view
@@Anthony-dy2cv I agree
Critics: "How is this movie good?"
Us: *"You wouldn't get it..."*
Aiden Kirsch joker is overrated. The Dark Knight trilogy is way better than joker
then Red footprints
Straight Edge Punk still a great movie tho
It's not just overrated, it's pretty bad. I know people in the street may not be kind, but in this movie everyone wants to punch this particular clown. They film his open mic to humiliate him in a pretty terrible talk show that no once in real life would watch.
And yeah, morally is also pretty bad. It's not empathetic to any other character. Everyone is bad and deserves to die.
I thought it was kinda boring..you fans of the film wouldn't understand
I really liked the movie. In a broad sense I saw it as an essay of a world with no empathy, a reminder of how ignoring other people's pain as a society slowly leads to extreme scenarios. Superb performances as well.
People hate what they don’t understand - Martha Kent
Ok. That quote doesn't really fit here, though.
Movie: _Presents how the media takes things at face value, spin a narrative, and escalate things due to a lack of understanding_
Media: _Does the exact same thing when “discussing” the movie_
*Ironic*
You put my exact thoughts into a well written comment.
@jyuean I’m pretty sure the filmmakers do. This isn’t some Saturday morning kids special, it’s a movie with a theme that reflects the real world.
If you don’t care about the message a film is telling, fine, you can watch a movie however you want.
But please don’t go around telling people the films they like don’t have any important messages and should just be watched to see things happen. Some people really connect to movies and the messages they hold in the themes. And it’s important (and helpful) to learn something by the end of the movie (whether it’s about the world or ourselves)
It is fucked on levels were awareness is killed
Video games be like
FIRST TIME?
@jyuean film making is an art form. If you don’t want to experience it cool, but that’s kind of the point.
Great video, dude!
Thanks for this, it was a really thoughful and interesting analysis
He didn't fall into madness. He danced his way to the bottom.
🕺🏼🕺🏼🕺🏼🕺🏼🕺🏼
we live in a society XDDDD
That's literally what he did after killing Randall
*Nice*
Of the stairs
"alienated young men could see the protagonist as a hero"
Sounds like the problem is having a lot of alienated young men, no? Maybe we should fix that, instead of bashing on the movie. If you drench a building full of smokers in gasoline, are the smokers the problem?
Yes. Obviously.
Waylon Smith how?
@@imfunnyiswear1490 I was being sarcastic, which I realize doesn't translate to reading very well so that's my bad.
Because it’s easier to blame the victims
Hold isn't that analogy the opposite of what you're trying to say?
Great video, truly deserves a subscription and more!
The Joker is such a good movie. I love the visuals, soundtrack, story, and acting by Phoenix. Everyone did a really good job making the movie unique and not just another comic book movie. I hope they continue the trend of more gritty, stimulating, or analytical stories around deep characters.
The movie does show the media constantly lying in the movie
Because they do it in real life. Sir Christopher Lee said it also; all media are a cult, and if they cannot have a narrative to spin, they will create one.
Straight White Male do you remember where Lee said that? awesome quote
does it? Gone Girl and Nightcrawler did it much more and they didnt pull their punches when critiquing it and they were both massively critically acclamied
@Bacons Strip That's for 'all critics', which includes all of them, while if you check the 'Top critics' (mainstream media and the ones who actually 'define the market') it's only 44% with the most prominent critics bashing on the film as if it is either dangerous or outright boring and bad.
But don't let that fuck up your willful ignorance on the subject.
@@rRekko "B-b-buh muh incels!"
It actually hurt how so many people had no empathy for Arthur, you can feel for the guy cause his whole life has just sucked without justifying his actions.
@@fantasticfrank85fantastic61 ok, I am talking about a character relating to real life, not empathy because you didn't like it as a movie. Who cares if you like the movie because that's not the topic. I didn't even call it a good movie there I just was talking about a character in the movie. What are you going on about lol
Society’s logic: Fiction creates violence, and not because we treat people like crap.
Critics - why do people like you??
Joker - you wouldn't get it...
@Rahul Biswas This is propably the dumbest comment i have ever seen. The movie "Joker" is not garbage it's a masterpiece. The story behind the Joker, the perfect acting of the actor, the realistic atmosphere in this movie. It's something you wont get often in modern made movies or series. Only because you don't like it because u think it's boring or whatever reason, does not mean it's trash, but your comment is.
HAHAHAHAHHAHhahahhahahahHHhAAAhahhahaahhhhahahaHahahhahahhaahhahahahhhahaHAHAHAHAHHAHhahahhahahahHHhAAAhahhahaahhhhahahaHahahhahahhaahhahahahhhahaHAHAHAHAHHAHhahahhahahahHHhAAAhahhahaahhhhahahaHahahhahahhaahhahahahhhaha----- cough,cough ---chokes
@Rahul Biswas lulz wut?
@@shizukax9535 dude its clearly a troll, look at the amount of time he put into the comment
@@youtubehandlesshouldsuckadick People: see a troll
Troll: watches people respond to their comment seriously
Troll: You wouldn't get it
I saw this film when I was terrified of losing my healthcare. I live with several disabilities and so do my loved ones. This movie made me feel seen. That my pain and fear is real and I was able to have a dialogue with others watching this film. I own a copy and keep it in honor of friends who have died alone with their mental illness
Thanks for sharing, stay strong
I have a neurological disorder and the scene in the subway was a perfect depiction of my greatest fear. Ignorant People mocking or harassing me and being unable to explain myself or my condition. That scene was incredibly real and hopefully it made viewers more aware.
@@Dooms-Daisy thanks for sharing. I want to take this oppurttunity to call u towards islam. I truly find peace. While i dont wanna disrespect the religon that u might follow. Try Islam. It really gives peace. Read some verses of the quran it might help u find peace
@@Dooms-Daisy thanks for sharing. I want to take this oppurttunity to call u towards islam. I truly find peace. While i dont wanna disrespect the religon that u might follow. Try Islam. It really gives peace. Read some verses of the quran it might help u find peace
reality is cruel
This was one of the best DC movies to ever come out. It shows how a cold world can turn good intentions evil.
Ya know if were fearing that the after effects that people might imitate the Joker, we really need to look at society.
I just wanted to say that he doesn’t laugh out of nowhere, he laughs when he’s stressed or feel attacked
Just saying that his laughter is based on a true illness, so if you wanna dig deeper into it u can research about it
And as soon as he stops taking the meds, he stops laughing uncontrollably...
No. He laughs at the horror of life.
person on the internett He also laughs when he’s about to cry
@@cucumbersprout7491 Horrors of life. You know like a supervillain
@Liam Chartrand Ever consider you just don't get it? Why dose the comic book joker laugh?
"You cut a man's tongue only because you are afraid of what he has to say."
- sun tzu or something
what he has to say is literally just "society bad"
You are missing the point. Our society is so tensed and polarized. If there was a leader to lead the polarized group of people there will be chaos and rebellion. Ending is like monarchy and signifies the kings seat is empty in society and anyone can grab it. Open season !
Which is a falsehood, in and of itself.
@@springbloom5940 Not really.
thats a wrong quote, the right one is "cut out his tongue, then shoot his tongue! And trim that scraggly beard" - sun Tzu
They don’t hate the Joker as much as they hate MEN.
Great explanation.
Ah yes worry about isolated people committing crimes over the movie by isolating them more from society
Alejo big brain time
Amen. Reality is ironic because it rejects the reality of the situations around it thus it fears how a fantasy character and a fantasy world could portray it so accurately and realisticly.
They didn't get the point of the movie at all.
“What’s so funny?”
“I just thought of a joke.”
“Can you tell me?”
“.... you wouldn’t get it.”
And she never did
"Just tell me"
"Living" *gunshots*
its gonna blow your mind!
I literally felt that joke running in my mind with an unknown person....
Oof
Critics hate Joker because they are afraid that people will make up their minds, independently. Critics need meek, obedient audiences that sink into group think
It's funny because most people commenting here haven't heard of the Japanese Joker.
_"While Arthur's actions are his fault and doing, we created an environment where someone like him could be born."_
And that's what society doesn't want to admit. The monsters we're so scared of in our own world, could very well have been shaped by _our_ various failures.
rhonda howard Good message but don’t expect a two hour movie to change society and people for life? Who cares because besides raising a little bit of awareness, this movie won’t change anything. Has any movie ever actually changed society? Do you remember the movie Wall Street (1987, starring Charlie Sheen and Michael Douglas)? That had a lot to say about ethics and morality, the values we place on things as a society, abuses of power fuelled by money, and what it means to be a productive member of society. Did people learn anything from it? If the financial crises that came twenty years later are any guide, the ones who needed the lessons weren't listening. Bottom line is Joker May raise a little bit of awareness but it will not go anywhere, Society won’t be changed at all. Also society likes a movie that is criticizing Society. Also this movie also kinda just represented rich vs poor and people who deal with tragedies, what about those who don’t have a tragic situation but struggle with a degree of loneliness and mental health problems. I mean what about everyday people as well who come from all sorts of different social classes who are in the majority in attitude, personality and opinions? I mean it’s not JUST the media and Rich people. Maybe I need to see it again.
Real_Slim_Shady lol dude the movie isn’t trying to raise awareness to save the world dumbass relax
Okay I admit, I'm creating monsters by going to work everyday, buying food from the grocery store twice a week, and watching posts about cats on social media. Now everything has changed. Thanks to the DIP social analisys.
Failed art school led to Hitler
@@katokianimation Are you really that thick? If you really thought that's what I meant, I feel sorry for you.
This film is a critique of modern human society. People don't like to hear any commentary on themselves which isn't flattering. They're being shown a mirror and don't like what they see. Therefore they dislike the film. A fine example of shooting the messenger.
Wondefuly said
I agree
We live in a society
Or you're simply generalizing why people dislike the movie? I dislike it because it breaks what the "Joker" has been for a very long time. Instead of being a psychopath who's relatively simplistic character begets depth in the story being told and of who we feel little sympathy toward he's portrayed rather as a sympathetic character created by the society around him. As a standalone movie I think this would be fine, but with the fact that it's THE Joker and not some other character we know nothing about... that's where everything falls apart for me. It's as if you're making a punisher movie where he never kills anyone and refrains from violence... it doesn't make sense for the character
@@TheSublimeIbanez This isn't the same joker idiot
I thought this film was disliked by critics because it was basically a copy of Scorsese's Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, sometimes to the point of using the same dialogue directly, it wasn't just honouring those two movies, it blatantly ripped them off; however with far worse execution by Todd Phillips, who is an average director at best. Honestly, I think the only reason non critics rated this much higher than critics is because they probably largely had not seen the two films it has borrows so heavily from, and due to Joaquin's performance. It is however depressing that all the creativity we get out of hollywood is, imagine the joker as Travis Bickle? It was an interpretation that was not needed. I will grant however that the final act of the film was a significant improvement over the first two.
Thank you so much for this!! Joker is indeed vastly overrated. The King of Comedy is a much better and more interesting film, but I doubt it would hold the attention of people who call Joker a mAsTeRpIeCe
Joker is for some unexplainable reason one of my favorite films of all time. I watch it at least once a month and every time I learn something different. Looking back now especially how it was painted as this dangerous movie, only points to the cyclical nature of how the media hates being pointed out. I also clearly remember that same year of 2019, a fight broke out at a Frozen 2 screening. Yet no violence occurred at a Joker screening. They wanted... no, they needed this film to fail. But it didn't, it was a huge success.
“ _for my whole life, I didn’t know if I even really existed. But I do, and people are starting to notice_ “
Ironic
I think that's something people really need to take note of. But just like social media, they're just burying those things as well as the unpopular opinion. It's no wonder people do crazy things to get attention.
Thank you for pointing out something obvious.
This is the higher level of "water is wet"
@@KABLAMMATS water is not wet. It makes other things wet
@hello no it's a liquid. Wet is when liquid adheres to a solid
this movie doesn’t promote violence,
it shows you how it starts.
well said
Exactly
Sadly, that is also the case of Fight Club, and that film has become a uniting banner for right-wing violent groups...
@Gideon Kiruba give one example that it has
you couldn’t of said it more better
They didn’t. The majority liked it. But the media people don’t want you to know this.
The last few years have taught us that critic scores don't matter at all, and the people writing them are not writing honestly, and are not worth listening to
I feel that most people that have seen the movie actually end up being nicer to other people because they have seen how hurtful it can be to others. I think the movie has accomplished the opposite effect that media wanted (at least in most of the people I know)
I can confirm that's what it did for me at the very least. Not just by showing me what it's like for them, but also showing how shitty of a person I can be. There were points in my life where I was the black lady on the bus who gave arthur a hard time cause of his condition. But like joaquin said during his speech at the oscars, the best people can be are when we're given a second chance
Yes.. i thought that too.
Alexander De Socio I strongly disagree. Everyone in my area ik really well saw it and 5-7 months later, not much positively changed. You expect a two hour movie to change society and people for life? Who cares because besides raising a little bit of awareness, this movie won’t change anything. Has any movie ever actually changed society? Do you remember the movie Wall Street (1987, starring Charlie Sheen and Michael Douglas)? That had a lot to say about ethics and morality, the values we place on things as a society, abuses of power fuelled by money, and what it means to be a productive member of society. Did people learn anything from it? If the financial crises that came twenty years later are any guide, the ones who needed the lessons weren't listening. Bottom line is Joker May raise a little bit of awareness but it will not go anywhere, Society won’t be changed at all. Also society likes a movie that is criticizing Society.
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I love how this starts off as somewhat reasonable and quickly becomes "the government wants us inside so they can change the batteries on the gay birds".
Dallyink I never implied I yay .. where did I say they want to cage us like birds?
I have so much to say about this tht won't fit into txt. Great video buddy very thought provoking
Great analysis! It was a good movie and definitely highlights how some people struggle with no real help. Not a typical comic book movie by any stretch!
1999: music is blamed
2009: gaming is blamed
2019: movie is blamed
you're insane if you think doing the same thing over and over will change anything, not the joker
2009: gaming is blamed
@@alfredio right, i'll edit
Gaming still get blaming actually
@@basedturu2320 not much as anime or movies anymore. It's probably because they are more popular than video games.
@@morbidgirl6808 bro... Video games industry makes 3 times more money than movie and sports industry combined..
whenever this comes up I just say "the fact that a Joker movie started controversy means that the film was done right"
what about suicide squad?
Very nice video; you actually made me revisit and watch the movie again! I think the only thing that Joker suffers from is the same as Fight Club; a good portion of FC's fans ended up worshipping the portrayal of toxic masculinity that the movie was trying to criticize. I think the same thing happened here--the chaos that ensues during Arthur's downfall may have been too dramatic and fantastical, reinforcing the notion that lashing out violently is a genuine and valid response to distress.
I genuinely don't think this movie will cause more violence (like this country even needs help on that)--and as someone who struggles with mental health, I'm glad to see a character who's mental illness isn't just some hidden superpower like autism constantly gets incorrectly portrayed as, and is genuinely disruptive to his life.
5:19 I'm no organ donor, but I'd be happy to give you my heart.
Time magazine: *names Hitler person of the year*
Also Time magazine: “Don’t watch The Joker because it inspires violence.”
weeeeeeeee!
I thought you were joking holy shit those guys actually did that.
Person of the year isn't for the best person, it's for the most important and influential person, which is exactly what Hitler was in 1938.
@@lupin5489 I thought he was joking so I searched it up and it ended up being true
What a joke
🤯
Deserves TONS of awards. Literally the only movie I’ve ever said “please don’t be over” at the end.
It wasn't even that good.
Watch Parasite. A billion times better.
@@vxn490 yea i did and uhmm parasite is barely better they both 10/10
@@vxn490 parasite have only 7. Rating in IMDB...and joker have 8.8now
vixan Yeah, it’s funny how wrong you are.
Rahul Biswas You’re the idiot here. Look at the way you spell, and your horrible grammar.
Nobody wants to hear an idiot’s opinion, nice troll though incel.
I think this movie stimulates maturity by invoking empathy and understanding that "the bad guy" is also a victim. This is reality.
This is green level v-meme. This is also why so many people don't get it. Because they are too immature to grasp it.
I think the problem with the film is that it blames the world for his downfall, whereas in Taxi driver, we are shown what the streets of NY look like outside of Travis's distorted POV (when he's unconscious) and you can see that it's actually a pretty nice place with decent people trying their best. So you see clearly how his mental health and nocturnal schedule distorts the world around him.
In joker, most of the strangers he interacts with are hostile empty shells. They don't behave like normal people at all. It's like it's trying to criticise society, but in order to do so, it mischaracterizes society. It's like the film maker fell for the Joker's percieved reality and bought into it as actual reality. I hope i used the right words to explain why i dislike the film.
If you are persuaded by a movie to kill someone there is already something wrong with you even before you watched it
Facts💯
I think a lot of rich folks got scared, no worries guys. It's just a film.
Or is it?
I think the rich 1% has enough influence and power to cause a genocide of the lower 99% so i dont think theyre scared
As long as the population is poor, sick, uneducated, dependent on the government, and divided there is no credible threat to the 1%. Now a galvanized, healthy, well educated, and independent of the government people would be a threat to the ‘establishment’. Look around. The former of the two is reality.
"1% or 99%. It takes one fluke to bring down empires.". Anarchy said this in a Batman comic I was reading just as Gawker lost their suit to Hulk Hogan.
@PubFilm sorry. They're gatekeeping bootlicking wannabe eletists
2:03 It angers me that taking responsibility is considered dangerous. It is not, it is one of the greatest things one man can do: take responsibility for the actions he takes and acting to amend his mistakes. We DO make people like the joker with the way we treat people. You need not look further than all the hatred throw towards those of differing opinion, specifically those called extremists. This hatred inevitably draws them closer to each other, and now that nobody in their life accepts them other than others of the same opinion, they become only more extreme.
So, take responsibility people, and try to listen to those with whom you disagree and be kind to people who are hurting from the mistakes of others, regardless of whether these mistakes were yours. Though, if they are your mistakes it is even more important that you do so.