Soderbergh Q & A: Is Che a Murderer? A Revolutionary?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 гру 2008
- During a Q & A at the Ziegfeld Theater on Friday night in Manhattan, "Che" director Steven Soderbergh talks with moviegoers about the film and stirs a vocal debate about the movie and Che Guevara.
- Розваги
CHE battled 3 different U.$.-backed dictators (Batista, Mobutu, Barrientos) on 3 continents (N America, Africa, S America) ... to liberate humanity. He is the epitome of bravery, fearlessness, and courage.
In the last battle, it took 1,800 rangers to defeat Che's group of 21 men.
When a Q & A with Soderbergh, one of the most serious and most talented film makers in the history of cinema turns into a vulgar "exchange" with the equivalent of a High School bunch of lazy students who can't actually think for themselves..... what a waste
A lot of people debating what Soderbergh says aren't really getting what he's saying (partially because he's not explaining himself very concisely or well). In short, he wasn't interested in judging Che. He was interesting in making a flick about the facts of his revolution and throwing it up on screen for the audience to judge.
The "crimes" committed by Che pale in comparison to the crimes committed by Pinochet, Franco and the El Salvadorean governments. Government's supported by US. And the CIA used the same logic that Che used yet it's okay when they do it. Che did what he did for poor people. US and the CIA did what they did for the rich and for corporations and was considered okay.
Gtfo
@@nickdial8528 you’re mad of the truth
@@jmendez4042
Truth?
Che was a Marxist murdering piece of shit..
@@nickdial8528 and every president are murderous capitalist pieces of shit who takes advantage of third world country especially when it comes to the self interest of big corporations and democratic elected governments being overthrown by the CIA, you’re a yank, you have no say when it comes to injustices, the US thrives on it
@@jmendez4042
Lol
Your ignorance is astounding
"We're lucky to live here". Are we? We live in a country that has deposed democratically elected governments and replaced them with murderous dictators. We are only lucky in the sense that we won't ever see our government help the poor and disenfranchised, only to see it be deposed and replaced with a military dictatorship. Why? Because, unlike Chile, Nicaragua, Iran, etc., etc., etc., Washington D.C. doesn't have a US embassy.
Some of those journalists embarassed themselves. They seem completely incapable of accepting the idea of a subjective viewpoint. Something one would deem fundamental to their profession.
@BMVlado well in the U.S. you have to remember "we" have never lost a war, never had slaves, never lied, never killed, never falsely imprisoned and everyone who lives "here" has food, money,clean water, health care, 2 houses a boat and a gold fish....."americanism" at its best.
CHE's LAST WORDS to his children in a farewell letter = "Above all, always be capable of feeling most deeply any injustice committed against anyone in the world. That is the most beautiful quality in a revolutionary."
If there is a Heaven ... I can't wait to meet Che there.
Hasta la Victoria Siempre !
When people die for a short time and say that they see a "bright white light"
- that is really just the glow from Che's face in Heaven
:o)
actually. i was born in uruguay and my parents grew up during the sixties, and my uncle (a banker) was tortured by the military...need more info?
@TheProgressistViewer My apologies. Finally someone who isn't blind! Thank you for the breath of fresh air! :)
@thebachars :O you were there?
Yep! Proud even though there are problems here Im convinced it's currently the best.
@starahavana what did the usa do in iraq specfically?
@Fredde1987karlsson You are correct! This is the definition of an imperialist ...Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." Ah yea that is Fidel all right!
3 Main Biographies on Che Guevara:
(1) Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life -by- Jon Lee Anderson
(2) Companero: The Life and Death of Che Guevara -by- Jorge G. Castaneda
(3) Guevara, Also Known as Che -by- Paco Ignacio Taibo II
... all great reads :o)
Love this man. ❤
Exactly. There are so many rumors and crap like that out there that I won't believe you when you make statements that seem ridiculous to me. Anyways Che isn't my idol or anything but I still think he had a great spirit and mind.
you're right
I would never argue against that.
first of I'm American-dutch NOT dutch, I only have family in The Netherlands. second, I personally have been deciding to go to Honduras in the memory of Che and defend the democracy of Zeleya. I know how to fight, and freedom fighters may be needed. I believe in Che and all the good he did. He is a hero of the fast majority of Cubans, a Batista era baby doesn't matter. I hope a Che or Castro comes to America, i was in front of south com with a Che flag in Miami only a few days ago.
Okay why the hell were you telling me this again? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
What is your alternative to Capitalism?
@ANDY82ize i get where your coming from with your point, but no one is perfect, now you may not like Che but he died honourably fighting for what he believed even when held captive by those who hated him, the real reason people idolize che is not because of his actions but because of his convictions and what he stood for, I personnally admire Che and I don't appriciate being called "stupid youth" solely because of something that i have researched and have come to my own conclusion about
Okay man I'm confused about what the hell we're talking about here. What are you trying to say?
Exelente film y exelente director ..
ok your right, the Cuban public demanded justice, but then what happened to the part of taking away their privileges, making them wait on line for just close to enough of amounts of food, and taking away ownership of private property...why'd you leave all that out?
A school teacher?
I think he was a doctor if iam not mistaken,
Are we talking about Che here right?
Murderer? No shit genius. How do you take over a country without killing anyone?
I have been to Cuba, and this is what they want. You can go to, just leave through Canada or the Bahamas.
The passions of Che cannot be denied. Do great men do horrible things when your only hope is survival? Of course. Mao, however, is not a hero in the some light as Che. We, as Americans, have become spoiled become young children don't understand the meaning of strife or struggle. We need to reinforce concepts of community which extend beyond our borders. I love you all! ty...thepuppets.tv
@Kagemusha08 I am cuban, i have been to Bolivia where he died and I have been at his tomb in Santa Clara. Right or wrong, Che dies doing what he believed in. Cheney or Nixon CANT be compared to him. Did any of them went themselves to risk their neck anywhere?
Right or wrong, Ernesto backed his ideals with actions and paid the price. He could have stayed in Cuba like all the others and lived a great life as another Revolution god.
murder have no ideology is a comon practice of people who figth for the power
then you have to ask yourself this question, how is it that a Cuban such as myself fled, but you still live in the U.S. in comfort and have not moved to Cuba?? If I was in a country I didn't agree with politically, as you can see I'd be gone. In fact, how come the great people (and I mean that cause I have tons of great Dutch friends) of the Netherlands, emigrated to the U.S. or better yet traveled on vacation to the U.S. as opposed to Cuba?
If you really wanna go down that path, then Che was actually the promised messiah that Jesus announced,
a final messiah that would not forgive
but even then, the american evil empire almost completely succeeded in killing the revolution with their embargo
every government has blood on their hands
only say*
@kidmayhem Well try starting with his own diary where he talks about killing peasants and then stealing their possessions. A man Pierre San Martin describes the account of the murder of the 14yr old in a newspaper the El Nuevo Herald. You can read the accounts also in Che Guevara: A Biography Daniel James.
Read the accounts of Javier Arzuaga a chaplin in the Cuban prison where tribunals were held, Or José Vilasuso a lawyer who worked under Che
@TheLoveschach Look, i am not fighting you or anyone else. I just need you to see the truth.My family owned no land, neither did the hundreds of other friends and family we know. It is horrible there. My aunt goes there to visit once a yr. conditions are deplorable. Better than Haiti sure! But not good or even mediocre by any stretch.They cant decide anything for themselves without being turned in to police.It is the truth, I cry as i sit here and tell you.
The way America is going...
che was not a racist. if he was, why would he try to do a revolution in congo?
@Eastsideweezy if CHE hated black people then why did he fight in the CONGO with black people? apparently you havent read enough.
@crusader651 I am giving you first hand information from my mother who was in one of those make shift prisons for two months. I can't get a more first hand source than that. I am not talking about strangers or people that I have never met. Like you who have only read books. My mother lived and breathed it. Why can't you see that?
@IneptTroopr
are you really comparing bombing a Japan in WWII, with Che killing his own people without trial?
What, you mean members of a murderous, fascist regime? So I guess all of the people Americans torture at Guantanamo without trial isn’t ok either.
Ben Sagal-Morris so American government isn’t a “murderous government” huh lol.
God these Americans are so fucking brainwashed lmao. You guys preach about “history” towards other nations, but you never look back about hideous acts of your own government lol.
The Islamic terrorism was BORN from USA/Russian failure during Cold War politics and atrocities.
"Che’s life is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom, we will always honor his memory." - Nelson Mandela
"Che is not only an intellectual, he was the most complete human being of our time, our eras most perfect man." - Jean Paul Sartre
CHE:
- Worked in a Leper colony and treated lepers (as seen in the excellent film ‘The Motorcycle Diaries’)
- Removed the Mafia and dictatorship of Batista from Cuba which had killed 20,000 Cubans and tortured thousands more
So, making a film about Fidel would be perfectly fine then given that he was a Cuban dissident who challenged the dictatorship of Batista. I guess you just do not want to make a film about an Argentinian dissident in Cuba.
Before Night Falls was a good movie about a Cuban dissident.
You are a counter revolutionary exile or just an American-Cuban that wants to see Cuba back to the days when it was a resort for American exploitation. I have a masters degree, am a teach and father of 1. I love both my parents, especially my communist father, who was exiled from Iran for being a communist.
Be happy you live where you do.
Che was a foreigner fighting to change the Cuban nation. He succeeded. Where he could have become a hero in taking out the corrupt Batista, instead, he made the other side of madness...a tropical Soviet Union.
3:58 shut the fuck up lol priceless!!
I think there's already a movie about Fidel. If there wasn't why not make a movie about Fidel?
@getyoasshome "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his
natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is
what our soldiers must become"
… Executions Without Trials is Enough for Me, But Good Thing for Us That Che Took is Own Advise (Guerrilla Warfare) and Went To Bolivia
It is so sad how many people are quick to judge the "other side" of evil, completely blind to the fact that their "own side" is equally to blame. Besides, in many ways, Che was a result of US hostility and abuse of the sovereignty of Latin America. While you may despise him (possibly justifiably), he certainly was no worse than the dictators that the US supported in Chile, Argentina, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Panama, Cuba, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Personally, I feel more sympathy towards Che and Fidel that I do towards the other dictators that you mention. That does not mean that I agree with their methods. Still, Cuba's revolution is still standing. The revolutions in Chile, Guatemala, and Nicaragua did not fair so well and Cuba would have been a bloody mess had the US followed through with the Bay of Pigs operation.
@thebachars it's funny when you look at cuba and venezuela there are parallels, most of the people who oppose them on bullshit ground are usually part of the used to be wealthy member of that society. what about you bachars?
the U.S is CURRENTLY knee deep in conflicts in the middle east not half a century ago, with over 1000 military bases worldwide and just as imperialist as ever, at least the majority of people murdered were not civilians ...
@kidmayhem El Nuevo Herald is the press of Miami mafia, c'mon!!
@TheProgressistViewer Ok and you believe it because a director and screenplay writer said so?? Because their research consisted of interviewing Fidel??? My mother was a political prisoner...enough said!!!
Extensive historical research? Where's this research that you speak of. You can't just say things and expect people to believe you.
Well done, CHE ! i knew he had good taste in music even though it seems a bit extreme to arrest someone for posessing a beatles album. Now if they were caught actually listening or worse still singing........
I wonder aren't rushing out to make those films? Could it be that hardly anyone agrees with their pov? Hum...and those are the people that the US supported in Latin America. Interesting. A ton of films were made about the US war with Japan. I would argue that needlessly dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is pretty disgusting, conveniently this part of the history is generally left out of the films to paint a heroic picture of Uncle Sam.
Hi,
He doesn't see his biased.. His facts are not accurate.. The film was staged well and actors.. but the historically content.. is slanted.. and the Director can't see it.
In addition, I wonder if you recognize that one of the beautiful things about the US is that you can make films about controversial subjects. We have freedom. You don't have to see the film and you don't have to accept its pov. If you arguing that the film shouldn't have been made, then you are arguing against freedom (sound familiar?) which is pretty ironic. Besides, Soderberg openly admits that he disagrees w/ Che and that he would have no life in his system.
haha, dude. of course he was a murderer. NO ONE was saying he wasnt, they were speaking of Che in different points in his life.
lol yea...i have been to Cuba, and not everyone wants what you think they want. That's why even today, they're paying off pilots to sneak them on flights to leave to Canada, and Bahamas, and Jamaica, and Mexico, and Germany, and Portugal, and Canary Islands, and France, and Panama, and Colombia, and....
@crusader651 And there you have it....when you can't explain away the lack of human rights in Cuba you do what is easiest...point the finger at the US. I wasn't sitting here defending the US or discussing the US. It was Cuba's lack of a democracy and basic human rights we were talking about. Stick to the topic.
No. The Castro regime is suffering with the Cuban people. Ideology is behind their suffering and the reason behind the embargo that has starve the citizens of Cuba. Have you been to Cuba? I haven't, so I can just speculate.
No becuase the CHE you see in the Movie is not accurate of what he did.. .. La Cabana.. CHE IN the Sierra Maestra.. was ruthless..HE killed Cubans..
@ATXgooner Che was not a racist or else he wouldn't have had his closest companion in Cuba be black, if not he would not have fought for the Congo, if not he would not have spoken out against the brutality of the USA against their own women and children because they where black, If not he wouldn't have praised Malcolm x , stop this divide and conquer tactic please.
@cooltoye actually Che killed prisoners of war, rapists and murderers, it's simply calling a state that has the death penalty a Murderer it's silly and please do people actually buy that story of japan? Japan had long surrendered . Not only that but the USA wasn't neutral they where providing for both sides and wanted to join to be part of thevictory
You assume without asking questions and you hide behind the myth that I am a Batista supporter to further strengthen within yourself that Che/Castro are heroes in your eyes. If Castro/Che happened to your country, I'm sure you would be singing another tune.
@cultofmao ok, i can see the debate on che as revolutionary, and I support his vision, but you can't say these things and support Mao Z. That's laughable. Dont be sour we got Obama he is changing everything, so let's have a beer together and chill.
@thebachars source? what you don't have none except humberto fontova.
No, not at all. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a simply "less democratic regime" than we would like, and a murderous tyrannical villain like sadistic Che G. !! Learn to discern!
@Fredde1987karlsson What kind of logic is this? So because my government has and still do commit terrible acts my opinion is worthless? I think Che was a ruthless human being in the same way I think Nixon or Cheney were a ruthless human being. All did terrible acts regardless of their political ideologies. Using the "WELL YOUR AMERICAN" counter is not a valid argument and its down right ignorant. It would be the same as accusing all Germans of being Nazis half a century ago.
No he will not. Where ever people are oppressed by dictators like the afore mentioned it will only be a matter of time before his reign of terror ends. Look at the former soviet union. Please notice I said FORMER!
How about I'm an American that just wants to visit my Aunts and Uncles and cousins that I miss that couldn't care less for the resorts that most Castro loving Euros seem to love...well, as long as it's within the confines of the resort that is. Or how about I couldn't care less for any American intervention to the island, mobster, commie,dictator, or none of the above for that matter? Couldn't it just be that lol??
The Cubans in Cuba are proud of the revolution, I have many people i write to that live and visit Cuba and there is no way that Cuba will turn capitalist again.
What you are saying is completely inaccurate. The US did dominate Cuba and the relation between the two was completely different from what the US has with Japan, Canada, etc. The Platt Amendment that was instituted after the Spanish-American War conveys that. This amendment gave the US` power to interfere with Cuban political and economic affairs, and use Cuban territory as naval stations- Guantanamo Bay. So, to say that the US did not dominate Cuba is just ignorant.
No he was not either. You don't know what your talking about.
Che = a gift to humanity and the world
a secular saint
@TheProgressistViewer che shot a man of his army who raped a teenager. a man who could have been a soldier with a gun. che shooting a 12 year old? what kind of bullshit is that. any proof or source?
@TheProgressistViewer you mean like guantanamo? why the fuck should a man during a war follow peacetime legislation? this has never happened.
Its kinda hard to stay mentally stable.. when the Revolution Fucked me and my family up so much!
"We are lucky to live here!" sums it up!
Che lovers everywere in western democracies should be swimmig to Cuba or catching a plane to North Korea and go see in first person the wonderfull social organizations that Che fougth for. Bon voyage!
50 glorious years of standing against the imperialist capitalist beast to its north.
Viva Fidel, viva Raul!
Oh Uncle Sam...
You knowledge of Cuban life is biased and capitalist in nature. Not everyone basis their lives on material wealth.
@ giantrobotzodd, if che was a murderder, wat do u call the USA who killed over 20,000 people over nine years for no reason in iraq using tax money from the people. Che had a real reason, USA had a false reason. CHE IS A FREEDOM FIGHTER!!
They yell those things out of rage as I would as well had I the opportunity to have been there. The problem is that NO ONE, not even you, my dear friend, is familiar with what cubans have struggled over the last 40 years living in fidel's and che's "happy little island". My Father and Mother are familiar with that struggle. To compare che guevara to a super hero is like worshipping Hitler.
I completely despise che guevara, i believe he was a cold blooded murderer, but I do applaude Mr. Soderbergh for defending his film while Benicio Del Toro couldnt take a single reporter during an interview in an upscale restaurant in New York.
Viva Che !
welll said my friend. i wish people in america wernt sooo brainwashed.
Gay concentration camps, what a guy
If Che was so bad, how bad was G.W. Bush??
soderbergh, la pelicula ke hiciste de el che es tremenda kk, si contabas con los comunistas para ke fuera un blockbuster ,tremendo fiasco ...ja,ja ..ni regalando las boletas de entrada llenas el cine ...ja,ja tremenda bomba cinematografica Domestic: $1,369,740 Foreign: $236,423 14.7%
Worldwide: $1,606,163
VivA CHE, VivA Revolution!!
Granted, but I still compare what Che stood for to that of Hitler and HIS "legacy". He was a murderer.
Because communism has worked SO well right? pfft.