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Fans: "Why does Kevin's story have a bunch of inconsistencies?" Kuro: *gives a 20+ minute explanation about the writings of the various shows to explain things.* Chadzmuth: "Celestial sapiens change the universe all the time..."
@@Adventist1997 Great way to allow the infinite impossibility of things to happen. As nothing is concrete and can *warp* from its original trajectory leading the Celestial sapiens meaning to the explanation of causality the order to chaos.
@@kanemccarthy1979 I tought of him in the original show as that typical street kid with a darker taste. In UAF he looks way more 'clean' if you understand, even with nicely made hair and clothes. I think his longer hair fits in Omniverse, but why is he wearing eyeliner?!
I like to believe that Servantis didn't know Osmosians existed when he meet Kevin so he thought he was a mutant and when he found out that he was an Osmosian he was so embarrassed that he came up with all the fake memories stick just to cover up his mistake
@@PenguinmanereikelGrandpa is still up there but he's more of a mentor figure than a main character. You wouldn't put Master Roshi in the same category as Goku for example.
I think the most annoying part about the retcon is that it serves no purpose to the actual story. They never do anything with the fact that Kevin is a mutant, and the rooter storyline would've worked justas well with Kevin's alien origins. All this retcon does is undo some of the work that the uaf crew did for this franchise and introduce several plot holes
I know right?? Kevin staying as an Osmosian would have been fine. everything would still work out. In fact, Devin being a plumber osmosian should have been the reason why Servantis even got a hold of Kevin, because he had information on him.
Like the UAF crew did with Eon in Ben 10,000 Returns? Oh yeah, i forgot the UAF crew could do anything without being criticized. Silly little me trying to treat all shows equally...
To be fair, it does gloss over how some of these hybrids came to be. I don’t care if an alien love a human, how does a Pyronite create a child with a human?! They are literal open flames!
@@parry3439 whoa whoa let's not get hypocritical here and act as if UAF was so original and faithful to the original series. UAF RETCONNED KEVIN FIRST. Let's not forget that
My biggest issue with Omniverse is how much it goes out of its way to be a Ben 10,000 prequel rather than having its own identity. Retconing things that happened so that they can line up more with those two Ben 10,000 episodes despite how little sense it makes. They even say that our Kevin ends up as Kevin 11,000 which just muddies up Kevin and Gwen’s relationship hard, also forcing Ben to get together with Kai
@@purpleclaws202 OS might be a great series but that doesn't mean that all of its lore was great, it's world building was very inconsistent. UAF not being great is subjective.
@@purpleclaws202 The comment has no actual components of an argue. It's just an assertion of a bunch of subjective information. You don't have to like UAF but just coming in and saying "I don't like UAF" doesn't add anything to the conversation.
I like Kevin’s UAF origin better, the only problem I have with it is that it makes no sense to why Max never tried to talk to Kevin in any of his appearances from the classic series (minus the time where he was unconscious at the beginning of Grudge Match) or tell Ben to reason with him more since he was suppose to be Devin’s son, even though I know his backstory was suppose to be ambiguous in the classic series.
Yeah that Is a legit criticism - though in my opinion hardly worth retconning the entire thing. Personally my best guess is that Max didn't recognize him back then, since technically he was without his parents and his family name never was mentioned. But I acknowledge this is far-stretched at best.
@@horse14tI respectfully disagree. Persay my good friend asked me to be their kid's godparent, I'd be honored and dutiful. Max is a chivalrous man so he'd definitely do it, but I genuinely believe nobody thought of the idea of Max having a friendship with Kevin's father because both were plumbers (note: I say the idea, as in by 2005
The biggest problem is that there was no need to make Kevin a mutant in OV. Literally nothing changes if Kevin is half-osmosian and Servantis decides to use him because of his alien DNA.
@@anotherpawn , Ben and Gwen are both part Anodite in the retcon of UAF, so according to you line of reasoning supporting the UAF retcon for Kevin being an Alien Hybrid then you can easily use your same line of reasoning to justify that nothing would change in the lore of Ben 10 if he used the exact same powers as his cousin Gwen because they share almost the identical DNA traits of one another.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Grammarly, my friend. Grammarly. The lore literally says that you have to have "the spark" to use your powers. Gwen's father isn't an antodite despite also having that DNA.
@@anotherpawn I do remember Ultimate Ben 10 000(no longer part of the main timeline) using magic(he said future Gwen taught him). Plus their grandma also didn't notice Gwen's spark(she checked all her grandchildren when they were born). So maybe Ben's spark was so miniscule that it didn't develop(or even noticeable) until his 30s. This detail wouldn't affect anything since 99% of the story is about young Ben not 30s Ben
I think the only retcon that was made in UAF regarding Kevin was his father working with Max and Max, even promising to help Devin's son, didn't help and still trapped him in the Null Void without any kind of remorse. Even so, his father could still be a false memory without Kevin ceasing to be Osmosian.
I would've preferred if they just had Kevin's UAF backstory unchanged. His father being a plumber and him running away from his family because his mother remarried and all that really felt solid enough without any changes or additions. Servantis somehow brainwashing everyone so they could corroborate Kevin's memories felt a little too forced as a premise. While its definitely possible, it really felt like a stretch. That's something that I couldn't get past despite the positive aspects in the Rooters arc. Not to mention Aggregor himself and how some characters seemed to have plenty of knowledge of Osmosians even though Servantis supposedly tried to cover up his supposedly secret experiments the best he can to the point of brainwashing everyone possibly connected.
The rooter arc in itself was never a bad arc and to be honest I always head Cannoned that they were just lying to Kevin to get him to work for them in a form of Osmosision Speciesism and manipulation. " No your not an alien you're nothing more than a lowly mutant but we can help you, make you something more and get rid of the person who ruined your life". Would be very powerful towards an 11 or 12 year old.
Especially since Osmosians are given full-on stories of control to stop absorbing according to Kevin when he absorbs the Ultimatrix. So clearly he'd gain greater freedom of his powers if he knew back then which Servantis didn't want.
Yeah I knew it To me it was always so weird that people claimed with their whole chest that kevin was always meant to be a mutant when aside from derrick statement there was no evidence of it No pop ups, no lines in the show, no anything Thanks for asking Mr Duncan about it!
@Caitlyn Carvalho I'm not grounded to either side here, but as far as that question goes, the answer is just no. Being a social outcast runaway freak born with super powers fits both explanations, and because were made after that part of his backstory neither is on its own more valid. You could just as easily say all those things point to him being innately tied to magic and maybe he was born under a full moon and magical energy seeped into him. Being a freak with superpowers is easily explained by a ton of things, that alone doesn't prove or imply he's a mutant.
as someone who frequently submitted questions to him back in the day, derrick was responsible for pretty much all the omniverse retcons. always bugged me
@@purpleclaws202 What were all of UAF's retcons? Like Kuro said, just because something was originally intended, doesn't make it canon if a different development happens. Like Kevin being an alien wasn't a retcon, it was a further development of his mostly non-existent history.
@@ravio5868 Gwen being an alien, the plumbers being of galactic origin and Eon being an alternate Ben are all retcons made by UAF as they directly contradict what was shown in the original series
@@red20753 The other two I’ll grant you, but Gwen being an alien isn’t a retcon, it’s directly addressed within the show. Nothing is removed from her backstory without explanation. If anything, the unaddressed reinstatement of magic as the status quo in season 3 is more of a retcon than Gwen being an alien. That’s the same “evolution” aspect as Kevin’s story in UAF, not a retcon.
Some extra info: The OV crew (and Derrick J.) also wanted to change Kevin's powers because they found it boring how UAF tied everything tied back to aliens instead of keeping powers unique. They also rarely intentionally ignored pop-up trivia; DJW actually tried to get a list of all those facts, but since many of those are lost media (like the Bazel statement), they had to rely mostly on memory, peoples' word, or like Rob said- the wiki. They were plans to address Aggregor in "The Rooters of All Evil". Originally, he would have been the one trying to track down Kevin, and would have revealed their true origins. He was going to be an attempt by Servantis to re-create Kevin's powers through cloning, and he was seeking Kevin's help as his genetics were breaking down, possibly dying and melting into "ooze" at the end of the episode. He was scrapped from the plot, as the Ben 10 team weren't keen on another big Aggregor story so soon after the first. DJW had also tried to explain some weirdness through writer's statements, although these answers might just be last-minute fixes. The OV crew considered Ragnarak for the Rooters and "definitely" a part of their conspiracy, but they had no solid plans for him. Kevin's Father was "some abusive bum", and is part of the reason Kevin ran away from home as a kid. He grew up poor and mistreated, and his and his Mom's memories of Devln Levin were implanted by Servantis. Unfortunately, how Paradox, Azmuth, Kwarrel, or others knew of Osmos V or its people when neither actually exist was never explained.
Mhm... these are actually interesting facts, particularly regarding the pop-up trivia. Kinda glad they didn't go for that for Aggregor, though, because I friggin' hate this explanation. I don't know why, but the idea that this scary near-unstoppable villain who almost became a god was just a failed experiment from the Rooters all along feel.... I don't know, it's kinda like the Xenomorphs being made a creation of David in Covenant, it ruins the mystic.
@@Theokal3 Maybe it could have been better if it was like that by design for Aggregor to be like that, like he had accelerated aging and thus would have a really short life, explaining too why he wanted to be a celestialsapien so bad to live longer
Using the pop-up trivia as concrete canon isn't much better than using a wiki. If what the pop-up trivia says isn't backed up in the show itself, there's no more reason to treat it as canon than there is to treat internal writer headcanons that are never revealed to the public as canon.
I will always stick by the reason that Kevin’s backstory changed in Omniverse was due to the universe reset from season one. Because letting the smoothie place be the only thing that was changed for one gag diminishes the power of a universe reset when it can be used for so much sweeping under the rug.
@@webtely Again the smoothie place changed. Plus in the years between making season 1 and establishing the Rooters, people could have changed their minds in production/writing.
While I certainly enjoyed the Servantis story in Omniverse, I would have preferred if they had kept Kevin's backstory from UAF intact. While it was a little convenient that Kevin's father was partners with Max I still felt like he was pretty much Kevin's Uncle Ben in a way. I also prefer the concept of Osmosians as aliens.
I liked the Servantis story in Omniverse, but it's hard for me to get that Osmosians don't exist when in UA, it was mentioned and treated like it was a real thing.
The weirdest thing is you could remove all the stuff that retcons Kevin as a mutant and you could keep the arc mostly the same. It's nearly entirely removable as far as i can recall.
@@phantom-X2086 iirc there was supposed to be a scene with aggregor coming to kevin and explaining that those were false memories implanted in him, but in that case i really want to know what planet he intended to travel to when he set a course for osmos
I think it's kind of interesting how fan edits to the wiki became canon, like Dr Animo's middle name or Anur Vladius. Kinda makes me wish they did fan votes to create characters, like transformers did with Windblade
Imagine some little kid gaslighting an official show's production team into thinking they wrote something they didn't years after the fan edit was made.
It really caused me an emotional damage as a kid that Kevin's father story was just a mind manipulation... but they would kept this with servantis.....but it also causes a question that how the hell servantis know that Ragnarok killed Devin levin?
As I recall, the the question of Ragnarok was asked to Derrick J. Wyatt. The response being that Ragnarok was actually part of the Rooter conspiracy. Also technically Ragnarok didn't kill Devin Levin, because as part of the retcon, Devin didn't exist.
The final question should be more like, how Ragnarok even knew about Devin Levin in first place? As he was only a fake memory implanted in Grandpa Max, Kevin and possibly his mother. Though that as Ender mentioned, this could implies that Ragnarok was involved with the Roots. Yet, Servantis never mentioned nor talks about Ragnarok, leaving the aspects, objectives and reasons of Ragnarok as part of this conspiration like a mystery.
@@Master-Works Perhaps. Yet, we can't be completely sure about the exact role of Ragnarok in the Roots, as Servantis don't even mentioned him. I mean, Ragnarok was a lieutenant of Servantis that knew several details about the plans of the organization, or he was another brainwashed amalgam kid, like the Plumbet helpers, that though that was a criminal and the murderer of Devin Levin? Making that the Rooter arc ended leaving several doubts and plotholes, regarding some aspects of the continuity and some characters, like Ragnarok.
I have a massive problem with the Rooters arc that I never see anyone talking about: NRG's race is from Andromeda, and their first appearance is in UAF. So how did Servantis get the Prypiatosian DNA to mix with Leander?
I haven't seen the episode with Pandor in it, but I had a possible thought. IDK if it contradicts the episode or not. Prypyatosians have been beyond the Andromeda Galaxy. IIRC Inter galactic travel does exist. It's just that Ben and his friends have never encountered one before. So it's possible that one has been to the Milky Way, did some crime, and got sent to the Null Void by the Plumbers.
There is also something with "cyclical sourcing". Where someone makes something up, writes it on a Wikia, and then someone else quotes it on a blog. That blog then gets added to the sources of the wikia and then gets cited again and again, making it impossible to figure out where the information originally came from.
One of the things that bothers me most about the Rooters arc is retconning the whole Plumber's kids aspect of the helpers. Considering that earthlings and non-earthlings are shown to form romantic relationships in the Tennyson family, it just felt natural to expand that. As far as Kevin's backstory I kind of always bought into Servantis lying, at least on some level. Things just don't make sense otherwise.
@TheGlassesPro How is this more plausible in any way? They're both equally as plausible, and considering the fact that the show itself didn't try to science its way to an answer that could and would be broken down by any skilled/talented/knowledgeable geneticist and/or biologist, it can't be proven or denied in any way.
@Caitlyn Carvalho so that what it's called When l tried to rewatch TMNT 03 it kinda was the same type of every episode has some random supernatural or technobabble shit happening judt because
@@Master-Works Okay, sorry for assuming you didn't like it, but why are you saying this in the first place? Your original reply doesn't seem particularly relevant?
I’m never a “heacanon” kid of person, but it’s hard for me to consider the rooters arc as canon because of the retcon. It felt like they wanted to make Kevin a monster one last time.
They should have just combined the Mutant and Alien aspects of Osmosians into one by saying Osmosians are both genetically modified/ mutated humans experimented on by Servantis and clones who were just dumped on a random planet. I know this sounds too goofy but meh Ben 10 has gotten away with goofy stuff before
Yeah it's crazy that everyone tripped so much that they mistakenly believe an entire species existed while it wasn't. It's much better to have them been experiments too, asmuth has already done this a few times
So they're kind of like Ben 10's version of Marvel's Inhumans or Eternals; mutants created through alien experimentation that created their own civilizations.
I have to agree with what you said about the Rooters arc, in that I do really enjoy a lot of concepts from it. Like the Plumbers having a Black Ops team, Servantis's motives that bring up an interesting discussion regarding Ben and the watch, and even letting the Plumber Kids have another chance to shine, and interact with Kevin. The problem comes when writing a story for your audience, the story should feel like a natural progression in this world we watch, to not make it feel like there's a bunch of writers in the background obviously puppeting the characters. When you break the illusion of the world you're watching and use it as a means to state "Look at this, my idea is better" then your story falls flat and can take people out of the experience. There's a lot this story arc had to offer, and it's a shame it went down the path it did.
I feel like the entire rooters plotline could have been completely fine without retconning him to be a mutant. They could have done the exact same thing if they had kept him an osmosian
I would say both. Born half alien half human = mutant. If we’re looking at cartoon/comic logic(X-men being the main view point.) him being born with powers make him a mutant with a alien/human heritage. But that’s how I look at it.
Honestly the origin of Kevin powers is the same as the way Stan Lee come up with the X-Men, they just born with powers since they didn't want to come up with a more complicated origin
X-Men doesn't even work like that. You have to be born with a specific gene to be considered a mutant. If you're half-human half-alien you're just considered a hybrid. Or colloquially referred to as a human depending on their own personal views.
That bit about the wiki information is freaking hilarious. I would've kept Osmosians but integrated it better into the Rooters arc. The only retcon I would've done is Devin Levin being Max's partner. That just makes Max look like a jerk in the Original Series.
14:39 I can see the intent in that response. The classic series had a blend of supernatural and extraterrestrial themes to it. Between stuff like the Omnitrix, magic being real, and just plain old super human and supernatural abilities. Alien Force and UAF leaned very heavily into "everything is extraterrestrial in origin." so Omniverse reining things in to be closer in theming to the original series is honestly a solid reasoning. It's basically saying "We don't want everything to be the result of aliens." and if they had of lead with that as an explanation, then I think people would have been more accepting of it.
I mean, there's a reason why they were so quick to change Gwen's powers back to being magic-based literally one season after "revealing" that they're actually alien-based... Gwen & Kevin both got screwed by UAF's obsessive insistence that "literally everything is aliens, even when it doesn't make sense and/or contradicts what came before."
Thanks, man. I always couldn't understand this topic, and didn't have any motivation to study because I knew that there were so much details. But after your analysis, my understanding became stronger.
This is the consequence of procrastinating a show. I'm here watching a ben 10 video and suddenly I get a spoiler from breaking bad. That came OUT OF NOWHERE.
They could've had the best of both worlds. Osmosians could've been human mutants that left Earth a long, long, long, long time ago in space stations built by a technology based Osmosian. Devin could have been someone who left, maybe became a bounty hunter, and was killed by Ragnarok and Max could've still had his memory rewritten to make him think that Devin was a Plumber and his partner. It's still not a perfect retcon but it would've been neat.
@@purpleclaws202Kevin being an Osmosian is something that was explained in Classic. He had no origin in Classic, unfortunately some details do make certain events weird in retrospect, like Kevin's father being one of Max's old partners and Ragnarok and Aggregor's entire existence. Derrick J. Wyatt and the Omniverse writers realized this and tried to course correct but went too far by entirely erasing everything about Osmosians making the entire first half of Ultimate Alien obsolete.
Back when Omniverse was airing, I remember asking DJW whether the Omniverse staff had access to the production documents of past series. He confirmed that Cartoon Network gave them absolutely nothing. Which is probably why they relied so heavily on the wiki.
"Remember that time you traded all your alien tech for some fat stacks of gold, but they just turned out to be a bunch of harvested yellow bloxx parts? *it was me kevin.* I altered the perception of your mind to think the plastic bricks looked like gold!" "Y-you monster! Argit wouldn't stop calling me lego brained'Levin for weeks!"
Here’s what I think Servantis wanted Ben gone so maybe as a plan B after hearing of the Highbreed War he created Greg and gave him the goal to go to The Forge of Creation as a way of erasing Ben from reality
I consider the Kevin's UA story canon and I think Servantis put false memories to make them think that the original memories were fake. It means Max Tennyson did had a partner named Devin Levin but Servantis made him think that he never had a partner named Devin. This way, both will make sense.
Personally I wouldn't have scratched off the classic series completely. You can pretty solidly conclude from his family not wanting a freak for a son strongly leads towards a mutant origin with normal human parents. If he were half alien his parents or at least one of them wouldn't have been freaked out.
Lets keep in mind that, the people behind Omniverse took any and ALL cannon from the original series very fucking seriously. That is why Ben and Kai become a thing in Omniverse, cause one little info thingy popped up on screen for 5 seconds saying they were a couple in the future. That is one of the reasons Jullie got fucked over, so badly.
its sounds really funny that creators of the show relied on show's fan wiki as facts. imagine you type for accident something, and next day you watch episode and its canon
Just three facts that fans should keep in mind: The original creators just whanted a nemesis for Ben with his same powers, but decided that instead of giving him his own Omnitrix (idea that they reuse in the reboot) he was going to absorve the power with a touch, and for the origin of his powers they pulled a Stan Lee and said that he was born with them, him being a mutant was just implied at most, so they where super vague with the origin of his power just like they where witch Gwen powers or the plumbers or the omnitrix, etc. UAF definitively retcons OS Kevin backstory (and Gwen's, the plumber's, the omnitrix, etc) and it does creates plot holes, the only reason that is less of a mess in comparison with the Rooters arc is that there is less to retcon after all Kevin only shows up in 4 episodes and his backstory consist in two or trhee lines of dialoge, compared with several episodes triying to explain Osmosians an Kevin past in UAF, so when omniverse change the origin of Osmosians from aliens to mutants it creates much more of a mess. The crew from Omniverse didn't have some nefarious agenda to get rid of what UAF did or where forced by Cartoon Network to retcon the characters, the truth is that just like Alien force before them they have their own ideas of where the show should go, so they keep the tings they like and change the ones they didn't, Derrick was very vocal about wich parts of the lore he enjoy and which ones he don't, but even with all his influence he was just a member of an entire crew.
@@enter-clever-name Disliking the changes that were made or how they did it is fine, but some fans act like if Derrick himself was changing stuff around all willy nilly, not realising that even if he propose the changes there where a staff of writers, story editors, show runners, producers, network people, censors, etc, that have to give it the OK before the episode could be made, or that the same applied to Alien Force when Dwayne was in charge, even a easter egg that some board artist put in a scene have to be agreed by the people in charge (or atleas pass unoticed by everybody).
As far as retcons go, the UAF one was very minor to the point that it barely counts as one. There was just so little of Kevin’s backstory and of what was revealed, wasn’t too difficult to complement and what ‘inconsistency’ there was, they eventually fixed in Ultimate Alien The Omniverse retcon simply went way too far and lacked any course correction or consistency, regardless of behind the scenes intentions, all of this ends up chucking aside all the UAF work (regardless of behind the scenes intentions).
@@901Sherman it only really counts as a retcon because if Max knew about Kevin and his dad, he should've recognized him. He also wouldn't be ok with sending his friend's son, who was living in the streets, to the null void or at least he would be troubled by it.
5:17 it's more of a 50/50 situation. There were clever references that were improved by watching classic, but there were also changes to what we knew that work much better if you've never seen classic( you pointed out a couple in your breakdown).
Honestly, even if Kevin being half-alien was a retcon, it's a retcon I like for one simple reason: It created more stories. It's like in Batman: Hush, where the story retcons in a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne who you've never heard about before that story. Or, for a more appropriate example, the Omniverse flashback episodes which deal with the adventures Ben got into when he was 11 with the Omnitrix. It's changing the lore, yes, but it changes it in a way that adds to it. Sure, there were some hiccups here and there with the Osmosians, such as Max not seeming to care for his dead partner's son, but it doesn't completely destroy what came before it. The Rooters Arc, by contrast, is a retcon that _subtracts_ from the story. It only allowed for one new avenue to be explored, and that was at the cost of multiple story arcs before it. Most notably: One of the main reasons Kevin became a good guy to begin with. By the end of Weapon XI Part 2, I saw no reason for Kevin to stay on Ben's side.
I would say that retcons change how or why stuff happens not the fact that it happens, Kevin stays on Ben's side because despite everything that happened he is Ben's friend
@@rubendelgado5098 With the way Ben acted in that episode -using Alien X to have the Amalgam Kids fight each other and the Rooters rather than trying to free them of their mind control or even simply incapacitate them - the fact that if they want to bring back the first Ben 10,000 timelines they would also need to bring back Kevin 11,000, as well as how every other time Kevin absorbed too much power he starts to lose control of himself and lash out at the world around him, I see no reason to assume that friendship would survive. I like Kevin as a good guy. But you can't have it both ways. If you want to bring the show back to a past where he was a villain and restore a future where he was a villain, he would need to become a villain in the present.
@@christopherwebster6354 1. I would attribute the Alien x thing as Ben not having or knowing how to properly control Alien x. 2. The future in Omniverse though similar is not the same as the one from the original series, so no Kevin dosnt have to be evil (thats kind of the point of the arc). 3. If you think about it, the only time we have seen kevin going crazy is in the Ultimate Kevin arc, in the OG he was already inestable before meeting Ben and altough he lost control of his mutation he dint lose his mind, or in his "Metamorpho" form from AF, neither did Aggregor in his Ultimate form, Greg even claim that the whole "going crazy" was a lie, and in Omniverse Kevin was just playing along.
@@rubendelgado5098 For point number 2, while it's never stated, it's _strongly_ implied that what happened in Ken 10 happened in the Omniverse timeline. Which is also supported by statements from DJW. For number 3, Kevn _flat out says_ that energy absorption madness happened to him as a kid. And it's also the whole reason why Kevin went mad as Ultimate Kevin. True, it didn't affect Greg like that, but he was already a terrible person. He was just a different kind of evil. Also, there was the Omniverse flashback mutation where Kevin absorbed the Omnitrix and went mad _again,_ before trying to kill Ben, his family, and Kevin's _entire team._ As Kuro said in his breakdown of Be Afraid of the Dark, we can rationalize these issues all we want, but needing to rationalize them is the problem.
So let me get this straight; In the Classic Series, Kevin had no backstory, intended it to be vague and possibly explored in the future. All the merchandise labelled him a human except one card that labelled him as a human mutant. Then UAF gave Kevin a backstory of being a member of the alien species, Osmosian. Which the Classic development team approved it. Then the development team behind Omniverse hated UAF so much that they wanted it to be more like Classic so they used the Ben 10 fan-wiki which may include some false information and they found the card that labelled Kevin as a human mutant therefore they believed the Classic development team wanted Kevin to be a human mutant so they retconned it in the series. Without knowing that's false information.
Yeah basically I don't think the Ben 10 Wiki had Kevin labeled as a mutant at that point and time though, I could be mistaken but I don't remember that when I was on the Wiki in 2013-2014 So it likely did just come from Derrick remembering that single card and just various chatter about it, and misrembering the narrative that it was always intended for Kevin to be a mutant The Ben 10 Wiki had (and still has to a certain extent) a lot of misinformation and lore details that were canonized either through an OV writer not knowing, not caring, or just thinking it was a good idea
Hey bud misinformation there. Classic team didn't approve of a lot of the UAF changes. And his backstory wasn't vague or anything it was pretty damn obvious that mutants existed on Earth with other characters later on. Don't shit on OV while being hypocritical about UAF
Not only do I agree with (and have always personally believed) everything in this video, but using Breaking Bad as an example was just the cherry on top. Great stuff.
It really annoys me as Aggragor was one of my favourite villain in UAF it lead us to Ultimate Kevin, the andromeda 5, the celestial sapiens and so much more in the beginning of UAF, I dislike the plumbers helpers change either, I prefer to ignore this arch’s existence and see Kevin as a human hybrid still
The problem for me is that you can have the rooters story exactly the same with Kevin still being an alien. He doesn’t specifically need to be a mutant for the story to work
I like the theory that Kevin's backstory was retconned by a celestialsapian after the whole agregor thing. like, the mother or someone thought that osmosians were so dangerous that they just deleted them except Kevin because he helped save the universe several times. After all there was never an indication in the show that agregor or Kevin are particularly special by osmosian standards, like the only thing separating them was that they didn't act as osmosian social rules dictate.
To me the Rooters arc is an emotional culmination of Kevin's arc. Revealing why he turned good so fast when we first meet him in AF, and facing off his hatred for Ben with his friendship for Ben. I really enjoyed Rooters, I think they're cool. I love hybrids. Omniverse really tried tying up a lot of questions and plotholes... while making brand new ones lol. I enjoyed Aggregor but I don't think AF and UA gave enough effort towards Kevin. (His dad, stepdad, mom and Kwarrel just appear a single episode out of nowhere) Omniverse gave him a fully dedicated arc. They erased Osmosians, but I enjoyed that they explain why Kevin turned good, gave the Plumbers Helpers (How TF would Alan's parents bang if one is a Pyronite) a backstory and was one of the best stories where the heroes have to fight their friends I've seen. Kevin's internal struggle between him hating Ben and him being his friend was great. A shame all the AF/UA work had to be erased. Sorry AF fans, I guess i have an Omniverse bias. I wonder which backstory has more fans I'd love to see his story rewritten by a fan from the ground up trying their best to incorporate both concepts!
Nothing in the arc make sense. All the alien hybrid are purposely created so there are no hybrid aliens in the show except for Ben and Gwen. The entire Osmosian thing. Kevin's suppose to stop Alien X Ben. But I mean how does that even work? If Ben wanted him dead, he could blink and Kevin would be dust.
The worst part about all of this is the fact that there are parts of the “implanted memories” aspect of the Rooters arc that make MORE sense in conjunction with the UAF backstory. Like, for example, Max not knowing who Kevin is at all during the classic series, but come Alien Force, apparently Kevin’s father was Max’s old partner all along. That, I WOULD say is a retcon, but rather than the retcon being “undone” by OV’s decision, it was expanded upon and actually became sensible rather than being swept under the rug entirely - even if the latter was the intention and not the former. What if the fabrication wasn’t Kevin’s father’s existence, but Max’s involvement? That would be a simple change that wouldn’t change much about the story, but would clean up so much around it.
Making it so that Max knew Kevin's father was objectively a mistake & makes Max look like *WAY* too much of a traitorous asshole than the writers likely intended, not to mention how much it completely contradicts everything related to Max & Kevin in the OS, so anything that undoes that nonsense is ultimately for the best in my book.
Here's a theory , after the aggregor arc , the celestosapians ( or just one of them ) were pissed and removed even the idea of osmosisians from existence.
I always felt like the rooters arc and all the retcons were a result of Ben Re-creating the universe with Alien X. He obviously got a lot of things wrong when doing it, whether it was by Ben or the two other personalities, but from that point forward I think the origin was changed.
As someone who is big into comics and the storytelling that comes with that, Kevin really reads like a classic case of all the writers for Ben 10 having very different interpretations of the franchise and how things should be written. I will freely admit that at first I wasn't really on board with making Kevin an alien, but it grew on me over time. Getting those flashback episodes really helped. Retcons aren't necessarily a bad thing if you can tell a good story. Even the Rooters isn't a terrible retcon in a vacuum. What is frustrating is the consistency of the retcons and the retconning of other retcons.
UA is guilty of this too with the forever knights getting retconned from AF as well certain family members of the tennysons and Kevin's parents. It's all strange.
Plot Twist. After Aggregor damn near killed the baby the Celestial Sapiens were so pissed off they erased all Osmosians from history minus Kevin because he technically was the one that saved the baby.
Never watched the Rooters arc so maybe there’s something there that disproves this but I like to think that, after Aggregor’s whole “trying to absorb a god baby”, the Celestialsapiens just… erased the concept of Osmosians from existence and made them humans.
honestly what we can learn from this is that retcons 9/10 don't work and as a writter you should always try to build up on what's already there instead of trying to "fix" what came before, this is EXACTLY what happened with the star wars sequel trilogy trying to fix every movie after instead of building up anything
If timetravel was possible, I would go back and do these changes in the show: -I would have revealed kevin to be a mutant from his introduction episode -The term "osmosian" will be use for mutant with absorbing powers(energy absortion, matter absorbtion, life energy absortion) since I would introduce the idea of mutant being classified to a category base on the power they have (kinda like devil fruit in piece) -For alien force's vendetta episode:it would be a more grounded episode where it is revealed that kevin's was a normal human police officer who got killed by a crimelord & alien weapon's dealer who call himself aggregor(his real name being "greg" ) -For the Andromeda galaxy alien & the map of infinity arc, I would replace aggregor with ragnarok. I always felt that ragnarok should have been the main villain of this arc and he's more badass & dangerous. These changes would make the continuity much simple.
Okay but the funniest thing is if you look at that card and say “if I had to describe an osmosian without saying osmosian what would I do?” I think that would be a good example. Like they didn’t have an example but they derived a fun aliens species from that description anyways. One with unstable genetic material and absorbs other things to form new identities and forms is a pretty dead on description. So even including that card, everything points to him being an osmosian. Just the fact some guy really interpreted that as “Hmm hes a mutant maybe? Why would there be aliens human hybrids” determined the whole lore of the guy. I love it.
The sad part is this retcon does absolutely nothing for the story or characters. They made a whole arc that created several plot holes for what is essentially an aesthetic change.
Given how much the original show featured mutants, and earthbound wonders, like magic and Santa's village, and energy vampire clowns, and geniuses who can build amazing technology, I think the assessment that making Kevin a mutant is more "classic" is a very valid one. And then when you consider how UAF retconned Gwen into being an alien, and Plumbers into being aliens, you start to notice a pattern. Now, I personally think Omniverse kinda fails at what it's set out to do, cause while it brings back a lot of classic concepts, it still relies mostly on aliens. There is no "Earth is a wonderful place full of aliens, conspiracies, mutants, underground societies, ancient gods and so on". It's all about space now. Edit: And acting like Duncan Roulou sees the UAF origin as an "evolution", not a retcon is disingenious, cause he'd probably say the same about the OV origin.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Yeah, Secret Saturdays is just like classic in that regard, they never go to space, all the cool, weird stuff is on Earth, even if it includes aliens. Finding an alien crash landed on Earth is cooler than a space alien society in some regards.
When I was watching the classic series I was under the impression Kevin was a mutant due to the fact that his debut episode was very close to the introduction of other mutants, which was a common occurrence in the classic series.
"I can see that you're wondering about something Kevin. Your wondering just who could have went back in time just to change your backstory.... Well... It was me Kevin! I went back in time just to change your backstory, and use you to get super powers!!"
As far as I got, the origin of Kevin's powers doesn't really affect anything about the rooters so they really changed it just for the sake of it. And it's not even a statement or an episode they are contradicting but half of UAF, this is insane
UAF even acknowledged the very little backstory we get of Kevin in the classic series during the Ultimate Kevin arc. In classic Kevin says he wasn’t with his family because they weren’t thrilled about having a ‘freak’ for a son. In UA when his stepdad confronts him, Kevin blames him for him being on the streets, saying that he convinced his mum to kick him out. His stepdad then tells Kevin that neither of them actually kicked him out but that he destroyed their house (which presumably prompted Kevin to leave). So UAF does actually follow classic canon by acknowledging what is said specifically in the show, whilst also developing story to it. Kevin was living on the streets at 11, like stated in classic, but it’s developed so that instead of actually being kicked out because of his powers he left himself because of something that his powers caused and he believed that his mum and step father resented him for.
The greatest thing that came out of this whole mess was Servantis as Reverse Flash "It was me, Kevin" fanart. Truly the best thing that came out of the memes.
As always, wonderful video! I think there are some pros and cons to the Rooter arc. It would explain why Max was fine with Kevin being in the Null Void since Devin wasn't real.
What bothers me about the retcon in Omniverse is the episode with Ragnarok. Basically, how does he know about Kevin's dad if the man didn't exist? How did Kevin actually have the key to the ship if his father wasn't a plumber? Why give Max the "false" memory of Devin and how did it reconcile with Kevin's original meeting? In the original there is that issue but you could say Max didn't think about Kevin at first or whatever. Max was always keeping secrets from the kids so that tracks. But the "false" memories don't track if Max was supposed to keep an eye on Kevin. Why bother with putting in a potential point of failure should he dig too deep?
It would’ve been interesting if Servantis canonically pulled a Light and messed with his own memories to further his plans, so much so that he didn’t even know if he was telling the truth himself. Also, I doubt he was that intelligent as a half cerebrocrustacean, maybe give him a little bit of Xylene(change the gem in his head into an eye) and some artificial computer banks and cybernetics so he’s at the level of a Galvan. Then I’d buy his “my plan will make your tiny head explode” dialogue.
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TTHE answer: a celestialsapien did it
@@avch1209 Ain't no way bruh💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
bo can u explain why ben 10 reboot alien x was soo weak
How would you do Kevin’s story
Despite the retcons, Kevin is my favourite character in AF, UA and Omniverse.
“Treat a car, like you treat a woman”
"...go on"
@@danielzakgaim2764 “No, I sense I made a mistake some kind”
@@danielzakgaim2764 “with love, honor, respect and kindness”
XXD
“no, I sense I made a mistake of some kind”
“I am an expert on jerks”
Fans: "Why does Kevin's story have a bunch of inconsistencies?"
Kuro: *gives a 20+ minute explanation about the writings of the various shows to explain things.*
Chadzmuth: "Celestial sapiens change the universe all the time..."
And that's why I can't see Omniverse as cannon...
@@Adventist1997 Great way to allow the infinite impossibility of things to happen. As nothing is concrete and can *warp* from its original trajectory leading the Celestial sapiens meaning to the explanation of causality the order to chaos.
@@Adventist1997 lololol look
@@Adventist1997 cry about it (?
@@Adventist1997 Ben 10: Omniverse is 100% canon & there is no Ben 10 without Omniverse.
Fun fact: in some countries the rooters were called "the plungers", what made them look like a type of evil plumbers
I like that name a lot more than Rooters.
For some reason it fits really well and it sounds like while the plumbers fix leaks in society, the plungers get all up in that business
brilliant
@@TheInkTank the plungers of all evil episode name would of made me burst out in laughter
@@Aragon737Ultra that is way better hilarious
I love despite the recons and getting his backstory changed, Kevin remains the most consistent character with realistic growth throughout all series.
True
Tho, I find it weird that he becomes a goth in omniverse.
@@lightborn9071 he was gothic/punk in the first place. Just look at the lock necklace
@@kanemccarthy1979 I tought of him in the original show as that typical street kid with a darker taste. In UAF he looks way more 'clean' if you understand, even with nicely made hair and clothes. I think his longer hair fits in Omniverse, but why is he wearing eyeliner?!
@@lightborn9071 I mean he was poor in the og. I figured it was a style he was into tbh
I like to believe that Servantis didn't know Osmosians existed when he meet Kevin so he thought he was a mutant and when he found out that he was an Osmosian he was so embarrassed that he came up with all the fake memories stick just to cover up his mistake
It was Me KEVIN
Why would he be embarrassed of that fact though
@@lasthope3237 probably cause he wants to be known as someone who’s smarter then everyone call it ego or pride
@@sneakaholiiic1936wich is ironic since he is an Cerebrocrustacean hybrid lmao
Lol
Even if Kevin's backstory changes so much... its still nothing compared to how often Rob's hairstyle changes from video to video.
enough with this joke, please!!
@@itsmenobody3837 sure
As long as kuro's hair stop evolving we'll stop
It’s like the seasons it changes
Truth really feels like has changed 100 times over
Every haitstyle change is a CelestialSapiens reset XD
Still one of the greatest characters not only in ben 10 but in cartoon history
And not Grandpa Max?
@@PenguinmanereikelGrandpa is still up there but he's more of a mentor figure than a main character.
You wouldn't put Master Roshi in the same category as Goku for example.
@@Penguinmanereikel I said one of
@@Penguinmanereikel “you have to treat a car like you treat a woman”
@@EvetheFurry kevin earned the chad title with that line
I think the most annoying part about the retcon is that it serves no purpose to the actual story. They never do anything with the fact that Kevin is a mutant, and the rooter storyline would've worked justas well with Kevin's alien origins. All this retcon does is undo some of the work that the uaf crew did for this franchise and introduce several plot holes
I know right?? Kevin staying as an Osmosian would have been fine. everything would still work out. In fact, Devin being a plumber osmosian should have been the reason why Servantis even got a hold of Kevin, because he had information on him.
Like the UAF crew did with Eon in Ben 10,000 Returns?
Oh yeah, i forgot the UAF crew could do anything without being criticized. Silly little me trying to treat all shows equally...
That is the weird part honestly. The retcon doesn't actually serve any purpose other than to be a retcon.
To be fair, it does gloss over how some of these hybrids came to be. I don’t care if an alien love a human, how does a Pyronite create a child with a human?! They are literal open flames!
@@parry3439 whoa whoa let's not get hypocritical here and act as if UAF was so original and faithful to the original series. UAF RETCONNED KEVIN FIRST. Let's not forget that
My biggest issue with Omniverse is how much it goes out of its way to be a Ben 10,000 prequel rather than having its own identity. Retconing things that happened so that they can line up more with those two Ben 10,000 episodes despite how little sense it makes. They even say that our Kevin ends up as Kevin 11,000 which just muddies up Kevin and Gwen’s relationship hard, also forcing Ben to get together with Kai
I see your point but the problem is that UAF strayed too far from the classic series and fell flat a lot of the time. UAF isn't better my guy
@@purpleclaws202 OS might be a great series but that doesn't mean that all of its lore was great, it's world building was very inconsistent.
UAF not being great is subjective.
Hey a Ben 10k show would've been great.
@@purpleclaws202 The comment has no actual components of an argue. It's just an assertion of a bunch of subjective information. You don't have to like UAF but just coming in and saying "I don't like UAF" doesn't add anything to the conversation.
@@purpleclaws202 You can change your username btw don't need to keep looking like a hypocrite OV shill.
I like Kevin’s UAF origin better, the only problem I have with it is that it makes no sense to why Max never tried to talk to Kevin in any of his appearances from the classic series (minus the time where he was unconscious at the beginning of Grudge Match) or tell Ben to reason with him more since he was suppose to be Devin’s son, even though I know his backstory was suppose to be ambiguous in the classic series.
Max really didn't give one shit about Kevin so much so he sent him to knull void at age 11
Yeah that Is a legit criticism - though in my opinion hardly worth retconning the entire thing. Personally my best guess is that Max didn't recognize him back then, since technically he was without his parents and his family name never was mentioned. But I acknowledge this is far-stretched at best.
@@Theokal3 Not to mention that it's pretty common to find completely unrelated people with the same last name.
@@horse14tI respectfully disagree. Persay my good friend asked me to be their kid's godparent, I'd be honored and dutiful. Max is a chivalrous man so he'd definitely do it, but I genuinely believe nobody thought of the idea of Max having a friendship with Kevin's father because both were plumbers (note: I say the idea, as in by 2005
See that works but it LITERALLY means Kevin killed a dude in AF’s Vendetta who didn’t kill his dad lol
The biggest problem is that there was no need to make Kevin a mutant in OV. Literally nothing changes if Kevin is half-osmosian and Servantis decides to use him because of his alien DNA.
Nothing in the lore of Ben 10 would change if he used the exact Alien powers Gwen uses according to your line of reasoning.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr What even is this comment?
@@anotherpawn , Ben and Gwen are both part Anodite in the retcon of UAF, so according to you line of reasoning supporting the UAF retcon for Kevin being an Alien Hybrid then you can easily use your same line of reasoning to justify that nothing would change in the lore of Ben 10 if he used the exact same powers as his cousin Gwen because they share almost the identical DNA traits of one another.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Grammarly, my friend. Grammarly.
The lore literally says that you have to have "the spark" to use your powers. Gwen's father isn't an antodite despite also having that DNA.
@@anotherpawn I do remember Ultimate Ben 10 000(no longer part of the main timeline) using magic(he said future Gwen taught him). Plus their grandma also didn't notice Gwen's spark(she checked all her grandchildren when they were born). So maybe Ben's spark was so miniscule that it didn't develop(or even noticeable) until his 30s. This detail wouldn't affect anything since 99% of the story is about young Ben not 30s Ben
I think the only retcon that was made in UAF regarding Kevin was his father working with Max and Max, even promising to help Devin's son, didn't help and still trapped him in the Null Void without any kind of remorse. Even so, his father could still be a false memory without Kevin ceasing to be Osmosian.
I would've preferred if they just had Kevin's UAF backstory unchanged.
His father being a plumber and him running away from his family because his mother remarried and all that really felt solid enough without any changes or additions.
Servantis somehow brainwashing everyone so they could corroborate Kevin's memories felt a little too forced as a premise. While its definitely possible, it really felt like a stretch. That's something that I couldn't get past despite the positive aspects in the Rooters arc.
Not to mention Aggregor himself and how some characters seemed to have plenty of knowledge of Osmosians even though Servantis supposedly tried to cover up his supposedly secret experiments the best he can to the point of brainwashing everyone possibly connected.
even so, it would not fit with the promise to "take care" of Kevin with his life, since he never did when he met him in the classic series XD
@@elnelprox2585 the retcon sorta "fixes" that since it happens after the classic and explains why Max was like "Fuck them kids".
@@erikpng yes xd
Agreed
Oh and all of the UAF retcons didn't feel forced?
The rooter arc in itself was never a bad arc and to be honest I always head Cannoned that they were just lying to Kevin to get him to work for them in a form of Osmosision Speciesism and manipulation. " No your not an alien you're nothing more than a lowly mutant but we can help you, make you something more and get rid of the person who ruined your life". Would be very powerful towards an 11 or 12 year old.
Especially since Osmosians are given full-on stories of control to stop absorbing according to Kevin when he absorbs the Ultimatrix. So clearly he'd gain greater freedom of his powers if he knew back then which Servantis didn't want.
Okay but he isn't alien. You haven't seen the original show?
@@purpleclaws202 but he is half alien.
@@VannyBeumer nope he is not
@@mohdzainlone Yes he is, dumba$$
wow, this is such a well researched and put together video. Explained and put into perspective so many things. Hats off!!
Yeah I knew it
To me it was always so weird that people claimed with their whole chest that kevin was always meant to be a mutant when aside from derrick statement there was no evidence of it
No pop ups, no lines in the show, no anything
Thanks for asking Mr Duncan about it!
@Caitlyn Carvalho what?
@Caitlyn Carvalho I'm not grounded to either side here, but as far as that question goes, the answer is just no. Being a social outcast runaway freak born with super powers fits both explanations, and because were made after that part of his backstory neither is on its own more valid. You could just as easily say all those things point to him being innately tied to magic and maybe he was born under a full moon and magical energy seeped into him. Being a freak with superpowers is easily explained by a ton of things, that alone doesn't prove or imply he's a mutant.
as someone who frequently submitted questions to him back in the day, derrick was responsible for pretty much all the omniverse retcons. always bugged me
Dwayne McDuffie was too. He isn't off the hook. He was responsible for all the changed and retcons in UAF
@@purpleclaws202 What were all of UAF's retcons? Like Kuro said, just because something was originally intended, doesn't make it canon if a different development happens. Like Kevin being an alien wasn't a retcon, it was a further development of his mostly non-existent history.
@@ravio5868 Gwen being an alien, the plumbers being of galactic origin and Eon being an alternate Ben are all retcons made by UAF as they directly contradict what was shown in the original series
@@red20753 The other two I’ll grant you, but Gwen being an alien isn’t a retcon, it’s directly addressed within the show. Nothing is removed from her backstory without explanation. If anything, the unaddressed reinstatement of magic as the status quo in season 3 is more of a retcon than Gwen being an alien. That’s the same “evolution” aspect as Kevin’s story in UAF, not a retcon.
@@purpleclaws202 OV shill smh
Some extra info:
The OV crew (and Derrick J.) also wanted to change Kevin's powers because they found it boring how UAF tied everything tied back to aliens instead of keeping powers unique. They also rarely intentionally ignored pop-up trivia; DJW actually tried to get a list of all those facts, but since many of those are lost media (like the Bazel statement), they had to rely mostly on memory, peoples' word, or like Rob said- the wiki.
They were plans to address Aggregor in "The Rooters of All Evil". Originally, he would have been the one trying to track down Kevin, and would have revealed their true origins. He was going to be an attempt by Servantis to re-create Kevin's powers through cloning, and he was seeking Kevin's help as his genetics were breaking down, possibly dying and melting into "ooze" at the end of the episode. He was scrapped from the plot, as the Ben 10 team weren't keen on another big Aggregor story so soon after the first.
DJW had also tried to explain some weirdness through writer's statements, although these answers might just be last-minute fixes. The OV crew considered Ragnarak for the Rooters and "definitely" a part of their conspiracy, but they had no solid plans for him. Kevin's Father was "some abusive bum", and is part of the reason Kevin ran away from home as a kid. He grew up poor and mistreated, and his and his Mom's memories of Devln Levin were implanted by Servantis. Unfortunately, how Paradox, Azmuth, Kwarrel, or others knew of Osmos V or its people when neither actually exist was never explained.
Hmm.
Mhm... these are actually interesting facts, particularly regarding the pop-up trivia.
Kinda glad they didn't go for that for Aggregor, though, because I friggin' hate this explanation. I don't know why, but the idea that this scary near-unstoppable villain who almost became a god was just a failed experiment from the Rooters all along feel.... I don't know, it's kinda like the Xenomorphs being made a creation of David in Covenant, it ruins the mystic.
@@Theokal3 Maybe it could have been better if it was like that by design for Aggregor to be like that, like he had accelerated aging and thus would have a really short life, explaining too why he wanted to be a celestialsapien so bad to live longer
Using the pop-up trivia as concrete canon isn't much better than using a wiki. If what the pop-up trivia says isn't backed up in the show itself, there's no more reason to treat it as canon than there is to treat internal writer headcanons that are never revealed to the public as canon.
I will always stick by the reason that Kevin’s backstory changed in Omniverse was due to the universe reset from season one. Because letting the smoothie place be the only thing that was changed for one gag diminishes the power of a universe reset when it can be used for so much sweeping under the rug.
Agreed. It could also explain why Vilgax is sometimes played for laughs since Ben has become less afraid of him over time.
DJW said that nothing was changed or retconned when the universe was recreated.
@@webtely Again the smoothie place changed. Plus in the years between making season 1 and establishing the Rooters, people could have changed their minds in production/writing.
@@webtely DJW used to say a lot of things, but unless something appears in the actual show it is not canon
Probably like the fact that Julie has broke up with Ben has probably something to do with the universe reset as well.
While I certainly enjoyed the Servantis story in Omniverse, I would have preferred if they had kept Kevin's backstory from UAF intact. While it was a little convenient that Kevin's father was partners with Max I still felt like he was pretty much Kevin's Uncle Ben in a way. I also prefer the concept of Osmosians as aliens.
I liked the Servantis story in Omniverse, but it's hard for me to get that Osmosians don't exist when in UA, it was mentioned and treated like it was a real thing.
The weirdest thing is you could remove all the stuff that retcons Kevin as a mutant and you could keep the arc mostly the same. It's nearly entirely removable as far as i can recall.
@@shinysamurott613 lol literally it is
Would have been a cool plot line without the retcon
@@phantom-X2086 iirc there was supposed to be a scene with aggregor coming to kevin and explaining that those were false memories implanted in him, but in that case i really want to know what planet he intended to travel to when he set a course for osmos
@@ralphthejedimaster Just seems so weird to have an entire arc only to explain that Osmosians didn't exist
I think it's kind of interesting how fan edits to the wiki became canon, like Dr Animo's middle name or Anur Vladius. Kinda makes me wish they did fan votes to create characters, like transformers did with Windblade
Imagine some little kid gaslighting an official show's production team into thinking they wrote something they didn't years after the fan edit was made.
definitely that would've been awesome.
It really caused me an emotional damage as a kid that Kevin's father story was just a mind manipulation... but they would kept this with servantis.....but it also causes a question that how the hell servantis know that Ragnarok killed Devin levin?
As I recall, the the question of Ragnarok was asked to Derrick J. Wyatt. The response being that Ragnarok was actually part of the Rooter conspiracy.
Also technically Ragnarok didn't kill Devin Levin, because as part of the retcon, Devin didn't exist.
The final question should be more like, how Ragnarok even knew about Devin Levin in first place? As he was only a fake memory implanted in Grandpa Max, Kevin and possibly his mother.
Though that as Ender mentioned, this could implies that Ragnarok was involved with the Roots. Yet, Servantis never mentioned nor talks about Ragnarok, leaving the aspects, objectives and reasons of Ragnarok as part of this conspiration like a mystery.
@@josecuestas7246 He worked for Servantis
@@Master-Works Perhaps. Yet, we can't be completely sure about the exact role of Ragnarok in the Roots, as Servantis don't even mentioned him.
I mean, Ragnarok was a lieutenant of Servantis that knew several details about the plans of the organization, or he was another brainwashed amalgam kid, like the Plumbet helpers, that though that was a criminal and the murderer of Devin Levin?
Making that the Rooter arc ended leaving several doubts and plotholes, regarding some aspects of the continuity and some characters, like Ragnarok.
@@josecuestas7246 Yes. I always dislike it was so short duo to constraints. I hope they make sequal and reintroduce Ragnarok
In another life Kuro could've been a detective, cuz this level of research is extensive!
They definitely could’ve told parts of the rooters story and kept Kevin as a hybrid alien. His osmosian powers could’ve just been what got used.
I was expecting a Breakdown today, but you know what? This is a great alternative!
I have a massive problem with the Rooters arc that I never see anyone talking about:
NRG's race is from Andromeda, and their first appearance is in UAF.
So how did Servantis get the Prypiatosian DNA to mix with Leander?
If I had to guess, the Prypotosians discovered th Null Void and sent some prisoners there which Servantis eventually came across.
I haven't seen the episode with Pandor in it, but I had a possible thought. IDK if it contradicts the episode or not.
Prypyatosians have been beyond the Andromeda Galaxy. IIRC Inter galactic travel does exist. It's just that Ben and his friends have never encountered one before. So it's possible that one has been to the Milky Way, did some crime, and got sent to the Null Void by the Plumbers.
There is also something with "cyclical sourcing". Where someone makes something up, writes it on a Wikia, and then someone else quotes it on a blog. That blog then gets added to the sources of the wikia and then gets cited again and again, making it impossible to figure out where the information originally came from.
One of the things that bothers me most about the Rooters arc is retconning the whole Plumber's kids aspect of the helpers. Considering that earthlings and non-earthlings are shown to form romantic relationships in the Tennyson family, it just felt natural to expand that. As far as Kevin's backstory I kind of always bought into Servantis lying, at least on some level. Things just don't make sense otherwise.
@TheGlassesPro well... max did spawn two childs with a pure energy being
@TheGlassesPro How is this more plausible in any way? They're both equally as plausible, and considering the fact that the show itself didn't try to science its way to an answer that could and would be broken down by any skilled/talented/knowledgeable geneticist and/or biologist, it can't be proven or denied in any way.
@@FMK03
1. verdona could shapeshift
2. not one man is dumb enough to stick his dick into molten rock
@TheGlassesPro I highly recommend the "Ant-Man is Insufferably Inconsistent" video by SkyeSpixru which perfectly illustrates what I'm trying to say.
@@parry3439 Did you watch the video I recommended? Please, make sure to watch the whole video before trying to dismantle my argument/illustration.
I prefer Kevin being a alien, it gives a sense of consistency, something that the OG series was severily lacking
@Caitlyn Carvalho
Kitchen Si- what now?
@Caitlyn Carvalho So what you're saying is you support eating babies.
@Caitlyn Carvalho so that what it's called
When l tried to rewatch TMNT 03 it kinda was the same type of every episode has some random supernatural or technobabble shit happening judt because
For me ben 10 is a world who aliens, high tech and magic can happen. Anything besides that is kinda bullshit to me, like multiverse or mutants
It always bothered me that Max always knew Kevin’s dad but didn’t say anything about it in the original series. That’s definitely a retcon
yeah and the fact that Grandpa Max sent that 11 year old kid into the null void without any sympathy.
Ben 10 was never my favorite animated series. I watched it when there was nothing better to watch
@@Master-Works Then why are you here? Genuinely asking
@@cillianstewart9441 Well, I feel nostalgic and I like Ben 10
@@Master-Works Okay, sorry for assuming you didn't like it, but why are you saying this in the first place? Your original reply doesn't seem particularly relevant?
I’m never a “heacanon” kid of person, but it’s hard for me to consider the rooters arc as canon because of the retcon. It felt like they wanted to make Kevin a monster one last time.
I do consider them canon however I also think that Servantis was partially lying about certain details such as Osmosians not existing
Kevin is such an amazing character
They should have just combined the Mutant and Alien aspects of Osmosians into one by saying Osmosians are both genetically modified/ mutated humans experimented on by Servantis and clones who were just dumped on a random planet. I know this sounds too goofy but meh Ben 10 has gotten away with goofy stuff before
Yeah it's crazy that everyone tripped so much that they mistakenly believe an entire species existed while it wasn't. It's much better to have them been experiments too, asmuth has already done this a few times
@@M.W.2 Hell, it was even done in Omniverse with Galvan B and the Galvanic Mechamorphs.
My Headcanon is that some Rooters where able to escape back in time and created the Osmosians Aliens
It is interesting.
So they're kind of like Ben 10's version of Marvel's Inhumans or Eternals; mutants created through alien experimentation that created their own civilizations.
I could've sworn a pop up trivia mentioned kevin was a mutant, and used to explain other characters like the wrestlers.
Plus, isn't Cooper a mutant as well?
@@johnnygyro2295 cooper is yes though i dont think he's ever called one
I have to agree with what you said about the Rooters arc, in that I do really enjoy a lot of concepts from it. Like the Plumbers having a Black Ops team, Servantis's motives that bring up an interesting discussion regarding Ben and the watch, and even letting the Plumber Kids have another chance to shine, and interact with Kevin. The problem comes when writing a story for your audience, the story should feel like a natural progression in this world we watch, to not make it feel like there's a bunch of writers in the background obviously puppeting the characters. When you break the illusion of the world you're watching and use it as a means to state "Look at this, my idea is better" then your story falls flat and can take people out of the experience. There's a lot this story arc had to offer, and it's a shame it went down the path it did.
I feel like the entire rooters plotline could have been completely fine without retconning him to be a mutant. They could have done the exact same thing if they had kept him an osmosian
At this point. I like to accept the idea that Bens recreation of the Universe accidentally changed Kevins backstory, among other things.
Clearly Kevin's only consistent origin is that he loves his ride
I would say both. Born half alien half human = mutant. If we’re looking at cartoon/comic logic(X-men being the main view point.) him being born with powers make him a mutant with a alien/human heritage. But that’s how I look at it.
I wish it was just explained that way. Sadly no. X-Men made it make sense
Honestly the origin of Kevin powers is the same as the way Stan Lee come up with the X-Men, they just born with powers since they didn't want to come up with a more complicated origin
yeah it'd be better explained that way ngl. At least x men made it make sense.
X-Men doesn't even work like that. You have to be born with a specific gene to be considered a mutant. If you're half-human half-alien you're just considered a hybrid. Or colloquially referred to as a human depending on their own personal views.
I thought mutant ment monster form Kevin, when I was a kid
I heard rumors that Kevin plays Raid Shadow Legends in his free time.
When in doubt blame the Celestialsapiens
They canonically changed the art style and Azmuth's voice so why not Kevin's backstory
A lazy retcon.
Artstyle and VA's is one thing but whole plot points feels like to much to be just an explanation rather then a genuien plot point.
That bit about the wiki information is freaking hilarious.
I would've kept Osmosians but integrated it better into the Rooters arc. The only retcon I would've done is Devin Levin being Max's partner. That just makes Max look like a jerk in the Original Series.
14:39
I can see the intent in that response.
The classic series had a blend of supernatural and extraterrestrial themes to it. Between stuff like the Omnitrix, magic being real, and just plain old super human and supernatural abilities.
Alien Force and UAF leaned very heavily into "everything is extraterrestrial in origin." so Omniverse reining things in to be closer in theming to the original series is honestly a solid reasoning.
It's basically saying "We don't want everything to be the result of aliens." and if they had of lead with that as an explanation, then I think people would have been more accepting of it.
I mean, there's a reason why they were so quick to change Gwen's powers back to being magic-based literally one season after "revealing" that they're actually alien-based...
Gwen & Kevin both got screwed by UAF's obsessive insistence that "literally everything is aliens, even when it doesn't make sense and/or contradicts what came before."
Thanks, man. I always couldn't understand this topic, and didn't have any motivation to study because I knew that there were so much details. But after your analysis, my understanding became stronger.
This is the consequence of procrastinating a show. I'm here watching a ben 10 video and suddenly I get a spoiler from breaking bad. That came OUT OF NOWHERE.
I think the best way to hand wave this away is just "Celestialsapiens doing Celestialsapien things."
They could've had the best of both worlds. Osmosians could've been human mutants that left Earth a long, long, long, long time ago in space stations built by a technology based Osmosian. Devin could have been someone who left, maybe became a bounty hunter, and was killed by Ragnarok and Max could've still had his memory rewritten to make him think that Devin was a Plumber and his partner. It's still not a perfect retcon but it would've been neat.
Or to put it simply. There were two Devin’s and Servantis just grab the plumber Devin data and give it to Kevin when he controlled him
Why wasn't this mentioned in classic then? Grandpa never hinted that he knew Kevin until AF.
@@purpleclaws202 Um was that directed at me or user-nl1oz8tx80?
@@purpleclaws202Kevin being an Osmosian is something that was explained in Classic. He had no origin in Classic, unfortunately some details do make certain events weird in retrospect, like Kevin's father being one of Max's old partners and Ragnarok and Aggregor's entire existence. Derrick J. Wyatt and the Omniverse writers realized this and tried to course correct but went too far by entirely erasing everything about Osmosians making the entire first half of Ultimate Alien obsolete.
Back when Omniverse was airing, I remember asking DJW whether the Omniverse staff had access to the production documents of past series. He confirmed that Cartoon Network gave them absolutely nothing. Which is probably why they relied so heavily on the wiki.
“It was me, Kevin”
"Remember that time you traded all your alien tech for some fat stacks of gold, but they just turned out to be a bunch of harvested yellow bloxx parts? *it was me kevin.* I altered the perception of your mind to think the plastic bricks looked like gold!"
"Y-you monster! Argit wouldn't stop calling me lego brained'Levin for weeks!"
I've always assumed the Rooters retcon was just a result of Alien X rebooting the universe
I guess you can still believe that
This retcon to this day doesn't explain who is Aggregor xd
Here’s what I think
Servantis wanted Ben gone so maybe as a plan B after hearing of the Highbreed War he created Greg and gave him the goal to go to The Forge of Creation as a way of erasing Ben from reality
I consider the Kevin's UA story canon and I think Servantis put false memories to make them think that the original memories were fake.
It means Max Tennyson did had a partner named Devin Levin but Servantis made him think that he never had a partner named Devin.
This way, both will make sense.
Personally I wouldn't have scratched off the classic series completely. You can pretty solidly conclude from his family not wanting a freak for a son strongly leads towards a mutant origin with normal human parents. If he were half alien his parents or at least one of them wouldn't have been freaked out.
Tbf with how the energy absorption was shown later to affect Kevin’s mind it’s clearly shown he’s an unreliable source.
Lets keep in mind that, the people behind Omniverse took any and ALL cannon from the original series very fucking seriously. That is why Ben and Kai become a thing in Omniverse, cause one little info thingy popped up on screen for 5 seconds saying they were a couple in the future. That is one of the reasons Jullie got fucked over, so badly.
Never liked juilie anyway
its sounds really funny that creators of the show relied on show's fan wiki as facts.
imagine you type for accident something, and next day you watch episode and its canon
same it's hilarious.
Just three facts that fans should keep in mind:
The original creators just whanted a nemesis for Ben with his same powers, but decided that instead of giving him his own Omnitrix (idea that they reuse in the reboot) he was going to absorve the power with a touch, and for the origin of his powers they pulled a Stan Lee and said that he was born with them, him being a mutant was just implied at most, so they where super vague with the origin of his power just like they where witch Gwen powers or the plumbers or the omnitrix, etc.
UAF definitively retcons OS Kevin backstory (and Gwen's, the plumber's, the omnitrix, etc) and it does creates plot holes, the only reason that is less of a mess in comparison with the Rooters arc is that there is less to retcon after all Kevin only shows up in 4 episodes and his backstory consist in two or trhee lines of dialoge, compared with several episodes triying to explain Osmosians an Kevin past in UAF, so when omniverse change the origin of Osmosians from aliens to mutants it creates much more of a mess.
The crew from Omniverse didn't have some nefarious agenda to get rid of what UAF did or where forced by Cartoon Network to retcon the characters, the truth is that just like Alien force before them they have their own ideas of where the show should go, so they keep the tings they like and change the ones they didn't, Derrick was very vocal about wich parts of the lore he enjoy and which ones he don't, but even with all his influence he was just a member of an entire crew.
I feel like fans can act like Omniverse and it’s crew were far more malicious than is reasonable
@@enter-clever-name Disliking the changes that were made or how they did it is fine, but some fans act like if Derrick himself was changing stuff around all willy nilly, not realising that even if he propose the changes there where a staff of writers, story editors, show runners, producers, network people, censors, etc, that have to give it the OK before the episode could be made, or that the same applied to Alien Force when Dwayne was in charge, even a easter egg that some board artist put in a scene have to be agreed by the people in charge (or atleas pass unoticed by everybody).
As far as retcons go, the UAF one was very minor to the point that it barely counts as one. There was just so little of Kevin’s backstory and of what was revealed, wasn’t too difficult to complement and what ‘inconsistency’ there was, they eventually fixed in Ultimate Alien
The Omniverse retcon simply went way too far and lacked any course correction or consistency, regardless of behind the scenes intentions, all of this ends up chucking aside all the UAF work (regardless of behind the scenes intentions).
@@901Sherman it only really counts as a retcon because if Max knew about Kevin and his dad, he should've recognized him. He also wouldn't be ok with sending his friend's son, who was living in the streets, to the null void or at least he would be troubled by it.
@@901Sherman If Max never new Devin, then it would've never been a retcon at all
Retcons don't matter as long as Kevin remains hilarious and we continue quoting everything he says.
Retcon or not, Kevin is a great character.
5:17 it's more of a 50/50 situation. There were clever references that were improved by watching classic, but there were also changes to what we knew that work much better if you've never seen classic( you pointed out a couple in your breakdown).
Honestly, even if Kevin being half-alien was a retcon, it's a retcon I like for one simple reason: It created more stories.
It's like in Batman: Hush, where the story retcons in a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne who you've never heard about before that story. Or, for a more appropriate example, the Omniverse flashback episodes which deal with the adventures Ben got into when he was 11 with the Omnitrix. It's changing the lore, yes, but it changes it in a way that adds to it. Sure, there were some hiccups here and there with the Osmosians, such as Max not seeming to care for his dead partner's son, but it doesn't completely destroy what came before it.
The Rooters Arc, by contrast, is a retcon that _subtracts_ from the story. It only allowed for one new avenue to be explored, and that was at the cost of multiple story arcs before it. Most notably: One of the main reasons Kevin became a good guy to begin with. By the end of Weapon XI Part 2, I saw no reason for Kevin to stay on Ben's side.
I would say that retcons change how or why stuff happens not the fact that it happens, Kevin stays on Ben's side because despite everything that happened he is Ben's friend
@@rubendelgado5098 With the way Ben acted in that episode -using Alien X to have the Amalgam Kids fight each other and the Rooters rather than trying to free them of their mind control or even simply incapacitate them - the fact that if they want to bring back the first Ben 10,000 timelines they would also need to bring back Kevin 11,000, as well as how every other time Kevin absorbed too much power he starts to lose control of himself and lash out at the world around him, I see no reason to assume that friendship would survive.
I like Kevin as a good guy. But you can't have it both ways. If you want to bring the show back to a past where he was a villain and restore a future where he was a villain, he would need to become a villain in the present.
@@christopherwebster6354 1. I would attribute the Alien x thing as Ben not having or knowing how to properly control Alien x.
2. The future in Omniverse though similar is not the same as the one from the original series, so no Kevin dosnt have to be evil (thats kind of the point of the arc).
3. If you think about it, the only time we have seen kevin going crazy is in the Ultimate Kevin arc, in the OG he was already inestable before meeting Ben and altough he lost control of his mutation he dint lose his mind, or in his "Metamorpho" form from AF, neither did Aggregor in his Ultimate form, Greg even claim that the whole "going crazy" was a lie, and in Omniverse Kevin was just playing along.
@@rubendelgado5098 For point number 2, while it's never stated, it's _strongly_ implied that what happened in Ken 10 happened in the Omniverse timeline. Which is also supported by statements from DJW.
For number 3, Kevn _flat out says_ that energy absorption madness happened to him as a kid. And it's also the whole reason why Kevin went mad as Ultimate Kevin. True, it didn't affect Greg like that, but he was already a terrible person. He was just a different kind of evil.
Also, there was the Omniverse flashback mutation where Kevin absorbed the Omnitrix and went mad _again,_ before trying to kill Ben, his family, and Kevin's _entire team._
As Kuro said in his breakdown of Be Afraid of the Dark, we can rationalize these issues all we want, but needing to rationalize them is the problem.
The guy who made Animo's muffle name James must have been so happy when it was canonized
So let me get this straight;
In the Classic Series, Kevin had no backstory, intended it to be vague and possibly explored in the future. All the merchandise labelled him a human except one card that labelled him as a human mutant.
Then UAF gave Kevin a backstory of being a member of the alien species, Osmosian. Which the Classic development team approved it.
Then the development team behind Omniverse hated UAF so much that they wanted it to be more like Classic so they used the Ben 10 fan-wiki which may include some false information and they found the card that labelled Kevin as a human mutant therefore they believed the Classic development team wanted Kevin to be a human mutant so they retconned it in the series. Without knowing that's false information.
Yes
Yeah basically
I don't think the Ben 10 Wiki had Kevin labeled as a mutant at that point and time though, I could be mistaken but I don't remember that when I was on the Wiki in 2013-2014
So it likely did just come from Derrick remembering that single card and just various chatter about it, and misrembering the narrative that it was always intended for Kevin to be a mutant
The Ben 10 Wiki had (and still has to a certain extent) a lot of misinformation and lore details that were canonized either through an OV writer not knowing, not caring, or just thinking it was a good idea
Hey bud misinformation there. Classic team didn't approve of a lot of the UAF changes. And his backstory wasn't vague or anything it was pretty damn obvious that mutants existed on Earth with other characters later on. Don't shit on OV while being hypocritical about UAF
Imagine being the (probably) little kid that wrote that edit and realizing the domino effect it caused.
@@purpleclaws202
I would trust the Ink Tank more than you.
Not only do I agree with (and have always personally believed) everything in this video, but using Breaking Bad as an example was just the cherry on top. Great stuff.
It really annoys me as Aggragor was one of my favourite villain in UAF it lead us to Ultimate Kevin, the andromeda 5, the celestial sapiens and so much more in the beginning of UAF, I dislike the plumbers helpers change either, I prefer to ignore this arch’s existence and see Kevin as a human hybrid still
Kevin still had the biggest glow up
Maybe it's both. It's possible that Kevin is a mutated osmosian.
The problem for me is that you can have the rooters story exactly the same with Kevin still being an alien. He doesn’t specifically need to be a mutant for the story to work
The Rooter story was a good explanation as to how a Human and Pyronite had a child. And a Pripatosian B from the Andromada Galaxy.
Since all they said about it in the original series was he was born with his powers, I just assumed he was ergokinetic, a type of psychic.
Regardless how inconsistent his backstory is, Kevin is a great character with nice dynamic with the main trio. 😉
I like the theory that Kevin's backstory was retconned by a celestialsapian after the whole agregor thing. like, the mother or someone thought that osmosians were so dangerous that they just deleted them except Kevin because he helped save the universe several times. After all there was never an indication in the show that agregor or Kevin are particularly special by osmosian standards, like the only thing separating them was that they didn't act as osmosian social rules dictate.
To me the Rooters arc is an emotional culmination of Kevin's arc. Revealing why he turned good so fast when we first meet him in AF, and facing off his hatred for Ben with his friendship for Ben.
I really enjoyed Rooters, I think they're cool. I love hybrids. Omniverse really tried tying up a lot of questions and plotholes... while making brand new ones lol. I enjoyed Aggregor but I don't think AF and UA gave enough effort towards Kevin. (His dad, stepdad, mom and Kwarrel just appear a single episode out of nowhere) Omniverse gave him a fully dedicated arc.
They erased Osmosians, but I enjoyed that they explain why Kevin turned good, gave the Plumbers Helpers (How TF would Alan's parents bang if one is a Pyronite) a backstory and was one of the best stories where the heroes have to fight their friends I've seen. Kevin's internal struggle between him hating Ben and him being his friend was great. A shame all the AF/UA work had to be erased. Sorry AF fans, I guess i have an Omniverse bias. I wonder which backstory has more fans
I'd love to see his story rewritten by a fan from the ground up trying their best to incorporate both concepts!
This is a mess of arc.
Nothing in the arc make sense.
All the alien hybrid are purposely created so there are no hybrid aliens in the show except for Ben and Gwen.
The entire Osmosian thing.
Kevin's suppose to stop Alien X Ben. But I mean how does that even work? If Ben wanted him dead, he could blink and Kevin would be dust.
@@mayotango1317 Yeah,the arc would have been better if ,Omniverse wasn't cancelled.
@@yashbjoshi12 No, Omniverse is pure filler and lack of character develoment.
@@mayotango1317 Dude I am saying about rooters arc.
Those damn Celestialsapien making it impossible for us to know Kevin's true backstory
The worst part about all of this is the fact that there are parts of the “implanted memories” aspect of the Rooters arc that make MORE sense in conjunction with the UAF backstory.
Like, for example, Max not knowing who Kevin is at all during the classic series, but come Alien Force, apparently Kevin’s father was Max’s old partner all along. That, I WOULD say is a retcon, but rather than the retcon being “undone” by OV’s decision, it was expanded upon and actually became sensible rather than being swept under the rug entirely - even if the latter was the intention and not the former. What if the fabrication wasn’t Kevin’s father’s existence, but Max’s involvement? That would be a simple change that wouldn’t change much about the story, but would clean up so much around it.
Making it so that Max knew Kevin's father was objectively a mistake & makes Max look like *WAY* too much of a traitorous asshole than the writers likely intended, not to mention how much it completely contradicts everything related to Max & Kevin in the OS, so anything that undoes that nonsense is ultimately for the best in my book.
Here's a theory , after the aggregor arc , the celestosapians ( or just one of them ) were pissed and removed even the idea of osmosisians from existence.
I always felt like the rooters arc and all the retcons were a result of Ben Re-creating the universe with Alien X. He obviously got a lot of things wrong when doing it, whether it was by Ben or the two other personalities, but from that point forward I think the origin was changed.
“It was me Kevin!”
😂😂😂😂😂
As someone who is big into comics and the storytelling that comes with that, Kevin really reads like a classic case of all the writers for Ben 10 having very different interpretations of the franchise and how things should be written.
I will freely admit that at first I wasn't really on board with making Kevin an alien, but it grew on me over time. Getting those flashback episodes really helped. Retcons aren't necessarily a bad thing if you can tell a good story. Even the Rooters isn't a terrible retcon in a vacuum. What is frustrating is the consistency of the retcons and the retconning of other retcons.
UA is guilty of this too with the forever knights getting retconned from AF as well certain family members of the tennysons and Kevin's parents. It's all strange.
yep.
Plot Twist.
After Aggregor damn near killed the baby the Celestial Sapiens were so pissed off they erased all Osmosians from history minus Kevin because he technically was the one that saved the baby.
Never watched the Rooters arc so maybe there’s something there that disproves this but I like to think that, after Aggregor’s whole “trying to absorb a god baby”, the Celestialsapiens just… erased the concept of Osmosians from existence and made them humans.
Honestly, I'd buy that
So according to this video the retcon of Kevin's origin was due one (1) dude who didn't like Alien Force
honestly what we can learn from this is that retcons 9/10 don't work and as a writter you should always try to build up on what's already there instead of trying to "fix" what came before, this is EXACTLY what happened with the star wars sequel trilogy trying to fix every movie after instead of building up anything
If timetravel was possible, I would go back and do these changes in the show:
-I would have revealed kevin to be a mutant from his introduction episode
-The term "osmosian" will be use for mutant with absorbing powers(energy absortion, matter absorbtion, life energy absortion) since I would introduce the idea of mutant being classified to a category base on the power they have (kinda like devil fruit in piece)
-For alien force's vendetta episode:it would be a more grounded episode where it is revealed that kevin's was a normal human police officer who got killed by a crimelord & alien weapon's dealer who call himself aggregor(his real name being "greg" )
-For the Andromeda galaxy alien & the map of infinity arc, I would replace aggregor with ragnarok.
I always felt that ragnarok should have been the main villain of this arc and he's more badass & dangerous.
These changes would make the continuity much simple.
But hey, that's just a theory... A Ben 10 Theory!
Okay but the funniest thing is if you look at that card and say “if I had to describe an osmosian without saying osmosian what would I do?” I think that would be a good example.
Like they didn’t have an example but they derived a fun aliens species from that description anyways. One with unstable genetic material and absorbs other things to form new identities and forms is a pretty dead on description.
So even including that card, everything points to him being an osmosian. Just the fact some guy really interpreted that as “Hmm hes a mutant maybe? Why would there be aliens human hybrids” determined the whole lore of the guy.
I love it.
The sad part is this retcon does absolutely nothing for the story or characters. They made a whole arc that created several plot holes for what is essentially an aesthetic change.
I always thought he thought he was a mutant as a kid, but as the series go on he realized he was half alien and his parents left for another reason
Given how much the original show featured mutants, and earthbound wonders, like magic and Santa's village, and energy vampire clowns, and geniuses who can build amazing technology, I think the assessment that making Kevin a mutant is more "classic" is a very valid one.
And then when you consider how UAF retconned Gwen into being an alien, and Plumbers into being aliens, you start to notice a pattern.
Now, I personally think Omniverse kinda fails at what it's set out to do, cause while it brings back a lot of classic concepts, it still relies mostly on aliens. There is no "Earth is a wonderful place full of aliens, conspiracies, mutants, underground societies, ancient gods and so on".
It's all about space now.
Edit: And acting like Duncan Roulou sees the UAF origin as an "evolution", not a retcon is disingenious, cause he'd probably say the same about the OV origin.
Least they put more emphasis on the secret saturdays and all the cryptids. Shame Maxy boy wasn't around to get egg on his face for that one.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Yeah, Secret Saturdays is just like classic in that regard, they never go to space, all the cool, weird stuff is on Earth, even if it includes aliens.
Finding an alien crash landed on Earth is cooler than a space alien society in some regards.
@@HiperPivociarz But the good thing about rooters arc was that it gave kevin his best charcter development!
@@yashbjoshi12 Only for the part that he actually controls his mutant self.
@@neeljavia2965 Not only that ,he feels responsible for what he had done in past .
When I was watching the classic series I was under the impression Kevin was a mutant due to the fact that his debut episode was very close to the introduction of other mutants, which was a common occurrence in the classic series.
"I can see that you're wondering about something Kevin.
Your wondering just who could have went back in time just to change your backstory....
Well...
It was me Kevin!
I went back in time just to change your backstory, and use you to get super powers!!"
I prefer the idea of Kevin being a mutant over him being alien
Same.
As far as I got, the origin of Kevin's powers doesn't really affect anything about the rooters so they really changed it just for the sake of it. And it's not even a statement or an episode they are contradicting but half of UAF, this is insane
UAF even acknowledged the very little backstory we get of Kevin in the classic series during the Ultimate Kevin arc. In classic Kevin says he wasn’t with his family because they weren’t thrilled about having a ‘freak’ for a son. In UA when his stepdad confronts him, Kevin blames him for him being on the streets, saying that he convinced his mum to kick him out. His stepdad then tells Kevin that neither of them actually kicked him out but that he destroyed their house (which presumably prompted Kevin to leave). So UAF does actually follow classic canon by acknowledging what is said specifically in the show, whilst also developing story to it. Kevin was living on the streets at 11, like stated in classic, but it’s developed so that instead of actually being kicked out because of his powers he left himself because of something that his powers caused and he believed that his mum and step father resented him for.
The greatest thing that came out of this whole mess was Servantis as Reverse Flash "It was me, Kevin" fanart.
Truly the best thing that came out of the memes.
The level of research and attention to detail in this video, along with its' fantastic and easy to follow to structure, is just great.
As always, wonderful video!
I think there are some pros and cons to the Rooter arc. It would explain why Max was fine with Kevin being in the Null Void since Devin wasn't real.
I always thought it was explained in omniverse that osmosions could be any race, and they were a extremely rare genetic mutation
What bothers me about the retcon in Omniverse is the episode with Ragnarok. Basically, how does he know about Kevin's dad if the man didn't exist? How did Kevin actually have the key to the ship if his father wasn't a plumber? Why give Max the "false" memory of Devin and how did it reconcile with Kevin's original meeting? In the original there is that issue but you could say Max didn't think about Kevin at first or whatever. Max was always keeping secrets from the kids so that tracks. But the "false" memories don't track if Max was supposed to keep an eye on Kevin. Why bother with putting in a potential point of failure should he dig too deep?
It would’ve been interesting if Servantis canonically pulled a Light and messed with his own memories to further his plans, so much so that he didn’t even know if he was telling the truth himself. Also, I doubt he was that intelligent as a half cerebrocrustacean, maybe give him a little bit of Xylene(change the gem in his head into an eye) and some artificial computer banks and cybernetics so he’s at the level of a Galvan. Then I’d buy his “my plan will make your tiny head explode” dialogue.
That would've been crazy!