I don't think there are new subcultures like the punks or the emos, but "aesthetics" are becoming very popular and maybe designers are pulling from that. For example, cottagecore was big in 2020 and I believe some designers definitely took inspiration from that
@@ANGE__LICA aesthetics are part of the subculture but not the whole thing, music is the foundation and makes it what it is. And solely aesthetics do not make subcultures anyway because there is always more to it.
Goth is a much older subculture than emo with a Longer shelf life. Just saying. There are Goths in there 60’s & 70’s and the aesthetic actually ages with the people who don the black attire. Idk that’s not discussed enough. You would look goofy as an emo at 50.
@@bluBlaq33 really depends on what kind of emo you are though, Midwest emo or the early hardcore look is a very “plain” style that all ages are pretty much already wearing right now
I think before the internet, people who identified with a certain subculture did so fully. Punks were punks and not much else, emos were emos, and hippies were hippies. Today in the age of the internet there is nothing keeping people from dabbling in multiple subcultures without diving deep into one. In my opinion subcultures certainly still exist, but the members of each often identify with multiple which creates the feeling of them disappearing. Today you can be a drainer and heavily identify with that subculture while at the same time identifying with the subculture around hardcore. It doesnt mean the subcultures themselves are disappearing, but rather that they have become less ”centralized”
I totally feel like you've struck gold with this observation. And I can't help but notice that the reason this has happened is fast fashion. Back in the day punks invested in their pieces and the same for all the rest, but since the end of the 1990s - coincidentally the dot com bubble and the rise of the fast fashion industry happening simultaneously. And the result is as you very well labelled "less centralised subcultures" or maybe diluted is a good word too.
A part of me also believes it’s possible for some subcultures to possibly be offline and harder to surface. I know there’s the opposite where very online people are easy to spot irl. I wonder how much subculture is written in hindsight with a strong emphasis on those that are highly visible (ex. Skater culture)
@@montez.youtube interesting way of thinking about it. Reminds me of this sentence I read the other day “you can tell someone’s screen time by the way the are dressed” rings true doesn’t it
Which is fine i think, like dive into different cultures and find different things to like, just be very mindful of bringing authenticity to those areas and research them well and be about that. For example im very much into minimal modern goth, not that much into the morbid and super eerie dark eyeshadowy full top to bottom lace and flannel part of it.
Yeah there's this pretty well known Danish graffiti artist that are known for having a ton of styles and evolving all the time. His thing is pretty much, if you don't do that much work you tend to stick to your style and just make small adjustments and slowly evolve it. So he does as many pieces as he possibly can, because that makes him bored with his style and makes him switch it up more.
For the notion of “subculture”, I highly recommend everyone read Dick Hebdige’s “Subculture: The Meaning of Style” if you haven’t already… then for the idea of ~culture~ more broadly: Theodor Adorno & Max Horkheimer’s “The Culture Industry - Enlightenment as Mass Deception”. You’re welcome 😇🤗❤️
Damn, Rick is still that popular? Maybe the people complaining are newer fans and missed the goth ninja/health goth trend when people could easily confuse your prized RO for Zara. Bliss' advice is spot on though. I'd go even further and say if your feelings towards a brand and its clothes change because they're trendier than you like at any given moment, maybe those feelings are shallow in the first place. Liking it just because its feels exclusively cool is a trend in another sense. But, if you're unphased and can outlast the ebbs and flows of trends, your sense of personal style is reinforced, and you end up with even more pieces available on the secondhand market to pick from.
You are not cool, if you wear fashion not because you truly like it, but because very few people like it/wear it/know about it and your whole shtick is "I'm special that way", no you're just a fashion snob. And snobbery is never cool. Because snobs care what other people think about their tastes. Truly cool does not need the validation of other people's opinions.
I design knitwear. I’m currently working on a dress in time for the Met Gala. I’ve created maybe 5 prototypes in the past month and I still don’t think the final dress is great. I have to keep reminding my perfectionist brain that this is my first dress and I can only go up from here if I continue to put in the work. What helps me in the garment making process is note taking during every part of the process. What’s working, what’s not working, etc.
I liked your advice to new designers. I feel like everyone answers this type of question with steps that never seemed to help me that much. I've been consciously trying to improve my art and I found it's like you said: you figure it out by persisting. When you keep trying, you get your answers one way or another. You're forced to face the problems basically.
I've been watching this channel for a couple weeks now and also a couple channels of tips for how to look fashionable (cropped pants, slim long-sleeve shirts, boxy cuts) and I'm just learning but I'm starting to realize there is a large divide between the fashion of people wanting to look smart and the fashion of houses and runways. But I'm also seeing yet a third area now that I've accidentally walked into. I visited a Saks Fifth Avenue for the first time ever and saw a bunch of clothes that I thought were just gorgeous. And I bought a Robert Graham shirt that has the print on it, but the inside is just white fabric, yet it looks like a cashmere sweater, but it's cotton, and it just looks so good on me. So I thought it would be my first fashion purchase and I was excited to take my first step into this world. Especially because I could afford it (on sale for $124). But then I looked up Robert Graham and couldn't find his house or runway shows and then I suddenly realized that Saks Fifth Avenue also has clothes that aren't made by a house. And another reflection is that I didn't see any Margiela there, although I did see some Alexander McQueen shoes. But yeah. Is Robert Graham even considered Fashion with a capital F or is it fashion with a lower case f, or is it not even that well defined yet? I understand the fashion community is small so I'd understand if there aren't any hard/fast facts about this differentiation.
This is a great question! To answer it directly, most people in this community wouldn’t consider Robert Graham to be capital F fashion. HOWEVER, I have a Robert Graham shirt, and I like it a lot. He’s got some misses but he does stuff with shirting sometimes that’s hard to find anywhere else. If you wanna see mine it’s in an episode called “Find Your Personal Style on a Budget (Tough Love)”. If you’d like to look into how to get ahold of some capital F fashion pieces without going into debt, I recommend checking out that full episode ⬆️ and other ones by me called “How to Find Designer Clothes Cheap Online” “How to Start with Fashion” “5 Ways to Shop for Better Clothes” “Fashion FOMO: How to be Happier with Your Closet” “A Love Letter to Fashion” Best of luck! 💫💫
With the popularity of the internet, subcultures have inevitable reached a point where they can hardly be called that,due to each subculture having more and more ways to connect people by having platforms where it’s possible. Brands (fast fashion brands especially) always take advantage of subculture and popularize them. We think our style will not become trendy because it doesn’t fit what should be popular. And then x amount of years later, boom, it is. Every subcluture has elements that are less divisive to the point where it can become popular, bringing the entire subculture with it. Excuse my scattered thinking, I am much too tired haha. But what I mean is, subcultures as we know it don’t longer exist like they used to.
It’s fascinating how some brands have such close alignment between their creative display and available products and others have such a disconnection. Where there is the significant disconnection it feels like the marketing machine is forced upon us and there are many that submit.
I love the first take on popular culture, it is almost inherent that we as a society look at popular culture as lesser than. Which in a sense, comes from legitimate fears of the inevitable saturation caused by masses flocking to a certain trend. Though i would argue this maybe is just natural. Instead of looking at popular culture as positive or negative, we should maybe instead just see it as a natural progression. Maybe something becomes popular, when a culmination of things happen around design/art/culture when it is just right in its timing? Maybe its enforced by celebrities? Maybe both? No matter what the reason is, i think devaluing the creator of the thing that happens to enter popular culture, is on you as an individual. Instead of looking down on it, maybe we should praise the person for creating something that manages to be accepted by overall society. As popular culture is the bigger mass.
In the vein of becoming a homogenized society, I think of the globalization of “western” clothes. I’ve been all over the world and seen people wearing discarded gap and H&M in Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Ghana, etc and it all looks slightly different. No matter what people adopt from the universal energy, I think that the interpretation of it will vary slightly depending on the context of their life and location. While fashion has become mainstream (and I’d argue more accessible to those who want to partake), there are indubitably shallow participants who are buying into the subculture of trend from a fashion nova or target, but I also think it becomes a new way to partake as those who want to wear their clothes as art and individual expression have to dig deeper in order to seek and gain the satisfaction of knowing they’re dressing with intentionality. Just because it’s looks the “same”, doest mean it’s not still different (double negative, but point standing).
My dad has always done construction for a living. Carhartt was affordable and durable. And now he doesn't buy the brand due to the high prices. Celebrities have hyped up the brand to the point of making it impossible for others to buy it for affordable prices.
That's kinda sad honestly. I always wore Blundstone for house work and gardening (bought them at hardware stores) but now the quality isn't quite the same plus twice as expensive.
@@xXcangjieXx In the last Kenzo show, Kanye West's girlfriend wore Carhartt jeans, those sold out online within a day. Its sad to see quality go down too like in your case. It is better to just save our money and shop another brand that is both durable and affordable.
*OH MY GOD* Tommy Nutter is my GOD - please to a 30 minute video on Tommy Nutter If I ever got good enough I will recreate some of his work - but OMG, I have no concept of how he matched the shoulders - I think he MUST have had the fabric made to have the correct size check in relation to the radius of the shoulder.
What great questions and terrific responses, and comments! The thing that I really want to say is that my worry with the growth of virtual fashion is that it will satisfy & dumb down what we each need to be thinking about… which is surely the reality of life in this era. Is satisfying the innate urges of many people to “reach for the stars” in their clothing choices virtually really going to address the terrible waste & pollution created by the clothing industry? I mean save up for 1 truly special real piece of clothing look after it learn how to mend it, be thrilled every time you look at it… know the story of the maker, that they are living a good real life, not slaving away in a miserable sweat shop. Buy clothing that really says something about who you really are not who you virtually are….To me it seems that the awful world of one upmanship we see on Instagram creates this sense of dissatisfaction that propels so many into the fast fashion shops, to buy the low quality items that have ripped off and totally negate the ideas stolen from real designers who have a real story to tell! The thought that some how virtual fashion can save the planet seems naive to me, unless we are all going to be happy hiding in front of our computers in black sweats pretending that we have extraordinary style, it seems pretty sad, and shallow… I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️ but surely being grounded in reality, living with a conscious purpose is what we all need… Sorry everyone for the rant, but I’m having trouble sleeping it’s 3.47am in Australia 🙈😵💫… I love ❤️ this channel!🥰😍🙋🏻♀️
I‘m studying fashion design in Berlin at the moment and the thing about creating prototypes made me accutely aware of something. almost nobody in my degree completes more than 2/3 prototypes for different pieces in 3 months/ 1 semester. because nobody demands more of us. that‘s why pretty much everyone is not that great at what they do and this just kinda shook me right now because obviously! you won‘t become great on only 3 prototypes in 3 months. what are we thinking haha. but I also feel like the younger the generation the lazier we get. don‘t know if that‘s true, just my observation
for the first question, i own a pair of ramones and they were kinda my gateway to fashion. i make it a note in my head that i am not those people. like you said it’s kinda just something you have to live with and accept🤷♂️
Subcultures require a certain amount of insularity to become their own unique thing. So drag queens in New York in the 80's, Punks in the 70's, work-specific subcultures like Iron Workers or Cowboys - they all incubated and emerged very independently of mainstream attention. No one paid attention to them until years after the group had formed and its members had become completely subsumed into it. It would be extremely hard for a true subculture to get going these days just because of how visible everyone is. The second a group identity starts to solidify there's a gazillion phone cameras, Instagram accounts, message boards and media types observing, commenting, and ultimately co-opting any special aspects of it for mass consumption. And that, I think, is kind of sad. Since finding a subculture was a way of finding community or family for so many throughout our history since we industrialized.
I'm a producer and I work alot in fashion too since music and fashion is so related, + I'm 17 so really see alot of what happens with our generation. I really can confirm that some subcultures are being created more and more and that underground movements are starting more and more to expend and be something truly great like we saw in past generation. I think that even if in the last fews years we might of seen less and less underground subcultures being developped, people of my age are clearly bringing it back. Not even talking about internet subcultures but full on movements. This will give alot of hope to some of yall I'm sure. The culture is still growing and I'm sure that in a fews years we'll really see the full potential of news movements that are just starting out and promising
I don’t really think you correctly engaged with the first question: I don’t think they have any issue with celebrities wearing/promoting brands, but with what I’ll call “moodboard culture”. Especially on instagram. Everyone is wearing the EXACT SAME things in the EXACT SAME way. “Rick doesn’t have notable pieces…’ absolutely false! Now, to people in different circles of Rick hell those items may be different (ie. for people who’ve long followed, that would be like a Dunk, “Mastodon” runway pant or a “Moody” vest) but the Ramones, Geobaskets, Kiss Heels and maybe a pant (creatch?) are absolutely oversaturated. There are legions of people who don’t know who Rick is and don’t care and only bought them because they saw them on JT or Carti or something. It evokes Baudrillard’s “Simulation and Simulacra”. They’re seeking the sign value and not participating with anything else. It’s “I have the cool instagram shoes!” and “Look what I can afford.” and not for genuine love of the brand, designer or even aesthetic. For instance, the way Balenciaga is shoved down our throats with Kim all the time is another great example. Many people will buy those crazy leggings and heels to be like her, but they largely are not participating with the brand beyond those (and the chunky sneakers). Back to the “moodboard” comment - people just want to be able to download someone else’s style “bar-for-bar” as some would say. Clearly I’m not a fan.
I remember hearing a funny talk on Swedish radio years ago about "trash" celebrity and an anecdote about Victoria Beckham buying a bag from LV that was very popular at the time and a high up manager realizing the bag would now be associated with WT just sighed "can't anybody stop her?!?
Subcultures do still exist, but fashion/clothing/presentation seems less integral to them. People more or less dress the same, regardless what they're into, with the greatest signifier being what graphic is on your tee. There are still uniforms to a degree, but fashion feels like it operates on a separate plane now, as opposed to some subcultures identity and collective interest manifesting itself as a style. I'd argue that actually participating in trends like y2k, goth academia, whatever else, is the subculture itself, since as mentioned most people dress the same. In recent years, clothing has perhaps been most effective at broadcasting political/social values, like maga hats, or more recently how masks have been politicized. People's interests can also be incredibly broad these days, belonging to multiple groups, due to the ig, reddit and other platforms, so perhaps belonging to any one subculture is also less integral to someone's overall identity and resulting presentation. I do think subcultures can exist outside the internet but there are fewer with each passing day. Even cruising has been appified. I think the whole argument that subcultures are dead is too often viewed in a fashion vacuum. I only ever hear fashion people talk about it, granted I don't go out of my way to find additional reading on the subject so 🤷
there are like micro subcultures emerging from tiktok tbh, but they are more so just trends, and because people are confused asf on what they like, or maybe they subconsciously or consciously like being trendy and hip with the newest tiktok "core", they just hop on from trend to trend like its nothing, so theres really no big subcultures like the punks or emos. Tho there are people that are really into the "skater" subculture and it really shows in more than just clothes, but thats ofc been a thing for years. Also where i live ive seen lots of kids convert from being skaters 2 years ago to now dressing and acting like roadmen, so i guess thats a subculture? Idk bro
Subcultures going forward will mostly just be very nuanced permutations and combinations and sort of different ratios of certain things so as to create a completely new design language for a brand. Thanks to the internet i guess
There's actually a whole paradigm of sociological thought that asserts that we are in a post-subcultural world. As the internet further shrinks the world down and society further emphasizes individuality as opposed to community, the term "subculture" is ultimately useless when discussing culture today. The term subculture has a connotation of commitment around it that for many people today seems to box them into certain groups. Most people like to think of themselves as fluid, and that their tastes transcend neatly packaged genres or labels, and would rather pull from a myriad of diverse influences. A lot of people today are broadly interested in subculture, but there's not many left. The only two modern internet groups I can think of that apply to the traditional context of subculture are maybe furries and incels but even then, incel aesthetics are more concerned with "genetics" than fashion and furry style is concerned with fashion but the main focal point is their obsession with anthropomorphic animals more than fashion. Fashion is an add-on but not a requirement in furry culture so there's less development of furry style. Andy Bennett and Keith Kahn-Harris do a good job of exploring post-subcultural theory more in-depth in their book "After Subculture: Critical Studies in Contemporary Youth Culture". It was published in 2004 but a lot of the takeaways are more than relevant today.
This is great! Thanks so much for sharing! I’m really excited to hear your thoughts about the video that will be public on Monday. I spend about 12 minutes talking just about this topic. I would love to hear from you tomorrow 💫💫
I think there are still subcultures and such, but I think it takes way more to be immersed in one. For example, dark academia is considered an aesthetic, but I’ve gone deeper into it and it’s also basically a subculture. There are entire academia communities online that spend time on learning classics, classical instruments, sharing their writing, ideas, etc. From the outside looking in, it’s an aesthetic, but I think once you get further and further into it you can reach a subculture. So all subcultures have an aesthetic, but not all aesthetics are subcultures if that makes sense. I think designers are pulling from aesthetics for sure especially when I look at current trending aesthetics and high fashion.
Subculture...Real actual subcultures do exist but not in the way that they used to. China, India, latín América, the content of Africa, the middle east....places with actual conflict and social debate generate real subcultures. The US is not the world...the west is not the world...those places don't really have subculture in the same way...but kind of...for the ultra poor. Poor= creative. Conflict=creative, classism, sexism and homophobia= creativity. I personally have been around the world so many times for the last 20 years, gentrification is global and what gentrification does is neutralize threat and diversity. Threats and diversity breed the underground that create subcultures.
I see a lot of people mad about the growing rick owens hype, but don’t forget about the whole time it was popular during 2012-2013 with a$ap rocky, and celebrities have continued to wear it, it’s just becoming more popular and the audience is widening because of social media, which I don’t see as a bad thing
The way I see it playing out for myself honestly is like this.... I'm already living in Paris so I my access to important players and potential clients is fairly high as a designer... and I've spent years making sure that what I'm coming out with is as pre-developed as it could possibly be given my logistical constraints. So when it comes to posting online I'm scared for my life. Mainly because I'm starting from absolute zero and I'd get so angry knowing that 2 or 3 seasons in there's brands biting my concepts. Knowing full well how difficult it already is to reach and operate on a world class level when you're just a single self taught guy. Or having my taste fall into the wrong hands. SMH So the script is to be as private as possible on social media all while running a very boots on the ground operation outside in the city. Amass a clientele base with a sense of community, amass content and a very compelling body of work but manage to stay under the radar for a few years... No virality, no promoting into the empty void, no product placement. nothing mainstream, no tiktok, just gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss lol
yo same I totally agree! That's why I've given up social media, excluding youtube. I'm honestly trying to forget most concepts of present fashion and start up like I'm in the 80's. It's really all about community now. People want to be apart of something, that kinship. But I say if you make quality items for a good amount of time people will find you, something more loyal than subscribers/followers. It's so hard being offline as a creative while the way of the world is being online; why can't we go back to the days of carrier pigeons?
Thanks for all your insights today, David 🦾 That’s a great idea! I know very little about goth culture at large. If you’re willing, I’d love it if you reached out to me on IG to give me some starting research 💫💫
I'm always intrigued by questions about identity/subculture, because I think it's changed so fundamentally in recent times, due to the internet and fast fashion, that it's become difficult to categorize since our definitions haven't caught up yet. The internet creating visibility for fashion means that people are now aware of little that's being created is new, or small, and how much is just drawing from what's already been done- hence the resurgence of older subcultures. The idea of creating something unique seems somewhat futile when fast fashion quickly commodities it, and makes adopting it fairly easy, so I don't think that clothes really hold the same significance within subcultures anymore. Also, we're in a time where we('re supposed to) value openness more than exclusivity so people are more willing to adopt things they aren't particularly connected to. If fashion says anything about identity, it's mostly about fashion to other people who are also interested in fashion, since those are the people who get the significance. I play a mobile rpg with a ton of cosmetics, and while you have people who wear whatever, or what's new, or costs real world money, you can still spot the people who are making intentional aesthetic choices which, frankly, has little overlap with irl aesthetic choices. I don't know much about digital fashion, but I think the attitudes of/around (fashion) influencers and people with large closets both here and on Instagram are pretty telling- they do all those things, yes, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just another niche.
Allow me some paraphrasing here: “The temptation with a lot of creative efforts, is to fall in love with the idea of creativity. Instead of with the process of creativity.” BINGO! …that line will be going up on the walls of my studio, as being a quote attributed to Y❤️U!
Hi it’s interesting that you used animation as your example because at the moment most blockbuster films have a huge animation component involved and the Hilo wood techniques used have really pushed the animation industry forward; avatar can be a case study. I think the fashion industry might embrace it as a tool and in turn shape the use of the tool by influencing the physical look of the device and also the digital interaction
I think it's fair to say that "digital" fashion and and regular fashion are two in the same at this point and it's only a matter of time until the line continues to blur. Considering Balenciaga's "World of Clones" that you made a video on, a digital runway show that mimics live action, while only existing in a digital space. The fact that mostly all fashion is consumed through digital media... we can expect to see more and more artists expanding on this
My biggest hate in fashion is brands lending influencers pieces, every influencer wears the same pieces and so many brands that it looks like they have no style. Im pretty much not buying brands that use influencers now.
On subcultures, I think I that they do still emerge... but I'm not sure they influence fashion anymore. Digital subcultures pop-up all the time. Stuff like videogame streamers, esports, vtubers, and retro tech enthusiasts. Some of these bleed into peoples lives aesthetically in different ways, like the infamous "streamer room" filled with neon lights, and a mini-fridge stocked with Monsters. Or vtubers and they're digital spaces that they customize. I do think that it can sort of blend into already popular fashion trends. Things like "theme-ing" over design. Instead of these unique silhouettes were we see cuts, and layers that define the shape of fashion... we see a lot more general purpose fashion throughout history compiled into colors, and concepts. So I feel like it's too easy to write off subcultures as something that have died off as a dominant aspect to peoples lives. Those people that partake in the ones I mentioned do so very prominently from what I've seen. I bounce around between subcultures (similar to what you described in one of your recent videos on the topic) so I've met the devoted individuals and people like myself or other internet denizens. And it does effect the "uniform" so to speak. Streamers, and Esports guys wear hoodies/tshirts, and snapbacks a lot for instance. It does seem to be a much rarer thing, and the ones that do pop up seem to develop from online/digital influence over things like music genres and the like. I think there's even an argument to be made for the Instagram subculture of wearing and carrying around photo-tech that could be seen as a fashion influence even it isn't conventional "clothing"
Tbh fashion is going to shift again before it makes a huge leap in another direction. Many designers aren’t standing out as they each implement the same systems. Yes they work, but as most businesses perform, they’re relying too much on digital and not enough on true life itself. Kanye does a great job with his ideas. The relatability. The humility. The ideal unfashionable genius flow he is always in is different. He can set a trend effortlessly. Sticks true to his vision. He will be creating as long as he has the platform. That’s my partial insight of the state of fashion and directing the path forward.
I actually think the genuine vs irony point really connects to the conversation around subculture, in my eyes a big part of the seeming death of subcultures is that things have skewed so far into irony and there’s less of the genuineness that came from subcultures before.
well speaking from my experience in portugal, metal is dead. its not a trend anymore, emo trap is, and although i really like the new dark trap wave, i miss meeting metal fans. that can only be achieved in two summer metal festivals per year. i think that led to a decline in edgyness in fashion itself. things were much darker and bol in the 70s. i have to make my own clothes because i cant find any that fit my style. subcultures are alive, i think its up for gen z to give us voice again. which is what i always try to do with my work
I love your Channel, i personally think digital fashion and NFTS are going to become ways for Celebritys to separate from normal people, therefore spoiling and making fashion less sincere. Greetings from Colombia.
Maybe when Augmented Reality glasses arrive. Maybe Then it’ll make sense that you will probably see digital garments accented on existing outfits. But purely digital fashion garments solely for Instagram/TikTok posts will probably not adopt widely imo
I dont make certain outfit more as the way Pinterest algorithm works. I love some outfits, but you can have way to much of a good thing. Otherwise Id probably be designing womens military beach wear and modern updates to 50s fashion.
8:45 nope ! Absolutely not ! I mean I agree with u ! i think animation and the real person movie have their own irreplaceable features. The tech of express the emotion and the narrative shot can be incredibly different, and it is interesting to compare them and dig in the works have application of the tech from each other, how’s the effect of many kinds of innovative experiment. Some topics done well in animation or real person while another is not that good. Sometimes the way of animation and real person to present same theme can interestingly differ🙌🏻 (Sry if i make any mistake in my Eng, not native
Celebrities have always appreciated fashion but before the early 00s, celebrities weren't really a part of the industry. Fashion was an insular industry run by people with years of fashion education and experience. Currently, the industry is heavy (sometimes too much so) on trends and social media engagement.
not wearing something just because its well know has got to be the most cringe shit ever. passive gatekeeping and talking about "I only where less know pieces" is literally the same as standing in a supreme line. this shit is embarrassing lol
Yeah, i mean they just trends at the end of the day, what’s hot right now might not be hot in a year, so idc, if you like something just wear it for you, not because somebody else is wearing it or isn’t lol
The subcultures are still around but the likelihood of designers being able to pull from them is really low because to access them you're going to have to be REALLY online, break through the algorithm and get expressed to in groups that are not picked up by the mainstream... yet. For instance the Decora subculture is smashed up and redefined by the new kids every 6-7 years, but to differentiate them you have to be in the culture
I love hedi slimane and obsessed over his stuff for Dior Homme years ago so my ears pricked up when u answered why he wouldn’t be right for margiela. I totally agree - you’re absolutely right: his aesthetic would displace the essence of M. I kinda stopped following him after Dior as saint laurent and celine were starting to repeat themes done. I’m surprised he’s not got own line now and correct me if I’m wrong there. Thanks bliss - loving your hair today. Now following u on instagram 2 me lovely!
I think subcultures are less and less present since with the internet everyone can easily find the niche communities they feel they belong to, and when it's becoming popular enough to make money, fast fashion brands take advantage of it. I'd argue that the "real" subcultures left are the thing the mass market kinda mocks or underestimate, and i'd argue that the crypto/metaverse/nft things can be considered a subculture that involves fashion, because the high majority of people don't know what it is (and im one of them) and no major fast fashion brands started making money out of it, but it looks like fashion will take inspiration out of it in the near future (again it's just speculation im not a part of this community at all)
If you have lived long enough...like through the 80s and 90s ( but still looking snatched) you will know that this is all on repeat. There is not much out in the world of fashion that is being done that is new or different. Since the 80s fashion has been ultra tamed to reach the masses, there is just no incentive to be experimental in fashion or society in general. Sad, but maybe there will be a desire to be different again. (Note: This statement is based on life in Europe and North America)
Even though this is a 4-month- video I still kind of want to answer this question I think subcultures are dead at this point but I also think replacing that are Aesthetics which a lot of brands do pull heavy inspiration from like you got the cottage core people and there are brand specifically for cottagecore and brands that are specifically for the Coquette aesthetic although I don't think brands are thinking of these as subcultures but as, like I said Aesthetics
There are like micro subcultures emerging from TikTok tbh, but they are more so just trends. And because people are confused asf on what they like, or maybe they subconsciously or consciously like being trendy and hip with the newest tiktok "core", they just hop on from trend to trend like its nothing, so theres really no big subcultures like the punks or emos. Tho there are people that are really into the "skater" subculture and it really shows in more than just clothes, but thats ofc been a thing for years. Also where i live ive seen lots of kids convert from being skaters 2 years ago to now dressing and acting like roadmen, so i guess thats a subculture? Also this sounds a little weird, but i guess you could call the "opium" trend a subculture, people are really die-hard fans of the fashion, music and way of life. But i dont see any designers benefiting from it because the opium aesthetic is just people wearing rick and balenciaga in a way carti or destroy lonely does. I also feel a kind of same way about the Semetary and haunted mound aesthetic.
Hi there, thanks for the video. I have been watching the celebrities for a number of years. I feel celebrities are damaging the fashion industry. A lot of brands have ended up been under on single corporate ownership, which is really bad on a creative level, as the design departments, are really small and do not employ enough people. The celebrities do use these brands to make money, but damage domestic industries by not supporting them. This showed up in the covid at the Oscar’s, it would be thought in less travel the celebrities would support home industries, it would of been easier and made sense, but no, they were still flogging the brands. I do not think the ordinary folk should support celebrity endorsed fashion. We should make our own, maybe with skill be even better.
So basically at the end of fashion all it's about is Exclusivity when your at the top of it all. I don't want to ever get that deep into fashion when I have to start worrying about all the politics behind it.
Wait where are you getting that it’s about exclusivity? 🤔 I have over 100 videos arguing that fashion is an artform and is about much more than celebrity, exclusivity, etc.
ps. i produced over 200 prototypes in 2 years...more on the way! and have the next two years in the design phase! Awesome videos! Very informative...Sky-Eagle Collection
Re @ 9:20 … for the 200th time… you need to pay attention to brands like The Plagiarist and Pyer Moss. There’s so much out there but they tend to get overlooked.
I could imagine digital fashion becoming an extention of analog fashion and vice versa. Clothing and fashion play a huge role in communicating our identity in our everyday life. Now, for example, if a larger part of our everyday life would take place in a digital space, analog clothing would in a way loose a part of it's value because it can't communicate anything in a digital space. So should something like a migration into a metaverse take place in the future, I could imagine that clothing and fashion will more and more come with digital counterparts that our avatars can wear to retain it's value enable us to express our identity in a digital space. I'm not saying this is how it should go, i find the thought of a metaverse quite dystopian, but I have a feeling my prediction might come true.
I only knew about Rick because of Carti but now I just love all their pieces sm and I really don’t gaf about the trend. I only have Tyrone denim and a wallet so far. I’m not ever planing on buying Ramones cos it would feel fake
On the other end of the spectrum, there is the birth of the Virtual Fashion Houses...User Generated un-polished content... Will Web 3.0 define who runs fashion? Thanks for all you do Bliss...
Agree on the metaverse...but look at the web 3.0 decentral concept...could be the death of the big houses, not unless they get onboard, ...waiting on the digital fashion discussion!
coming here to say that i think we’re always gonna have subcultures. and especially now when the youth strive to be set apart. for example the trends on tiktok leaking into style (e.g. Luka Blovad, Cory infinite who style more eclectically could be compared to y/project in a more affordable and DIY sense). any dramatic move in society creates a subculture. so i believe yes there are still some.
anyone who thinks subcultures are dead isn't living the subculture life hard enough. if people allowed a subculture (mine is EGL/ouji/Japanese gothic fashion) to become a true passion, there would be not a single doubt as to whether subcultures are around anymore. meetups, in-jokes, zines, blogs, discord servers, swap meets-- subcultures are growing, changing, and thriving once someone gets close enough to look
sorry this got a lil heated! it's common in my subculture to say "x is dying" or "y is killing the subculture" (dating back to "punk is dead") and i'm honestly tired of it. people will find a way to gather, to rebel, to make new aesthetics and communities and lifelong friendships regardless of whether it's the 'true' or 'correct' way to make a subculture. the kind of nihilistic narrative that states that subcultures, countercultures, and the nonconformist creativity they signify is somehow out of reach (either due to technology or perceived faults in youth as a group) is deeply depressing and misanthropic.
Teenagers can love something deeply and knowingly though. As other people, there always will be people enjoying some specific things in a superficial way and others that try to know more about it and i think both are okay as long as you don't close your eyes on the ethical/political implications of it (i.e. luxury brands being owned by a mega group directed by an old facist prick, or fast fashion, or luxury brand also producing overseas and exploiting their workers and other countries ressources)
Fashion is so badly ruined that being a model is the most tacky job out there. People are obsessed with such jobs because of money and all the attention models get though everyone can see it's just not worth it anymore.
This channel can only exist with real support. It takes 30 seconds to sign up on the Patreon and it starts at $3. Link is in the description 💫💫
That's the most geometrically confusing yet comfy looking sweatshirt I've ever seen. Where's it from?
@@orion3253 Y/Project! I put IDs for my clothes in the first few seconds of every episode 💫💫
@@BlissFoster D'oh!
@@BlissFoster My fault for treating content about Visual Art as a podcast TBH.
I don't think there are new subcultures like the punks or the emos, but "aesthetics" are becoming very popular and maybe designers are pulling from that. For example, cottagecore was big in 2020 and I believe some designers definitely took inspiration from that
Dystopian futuristic is new no?
@@ANGE__LICA This is just untrue. There have always been punk bands and punks that don’t dress ‘punk’. It’s a music subculture first and foremost.
@@ANGE__LICA aesthetics are part of the subculture but not the whole thing, music is the foundation and makes it what it is. And solely aesthetics do not make subcultures anyway because there is always more to it.
Goth is a much older subculture than emo with a Longer shelf life. Just saying. There are Goths in there 60’s & 70’s and the aesthetic actually ages with the people who don the black attire. Idk that’s not discussed enough. You would look goofy as an emo at 50.
@@bluBlaq33 really depends on what kind of emo you are though, Midwest emo or the early hardcore look is a very “plain” style that all ages are pretty much already wearing right now
I think before the internet, people who identified with a certain subculture did so fully. Punks were punks and not much else, emos were emos, and hippies were hippies. Today in the age of the internet there is nothing keeping people from dabbling in multiple subcultures without diving deep into one. In my opinion subcultures certainly still exist, but the members of each often identify with multiple which creates the feeling of them disappearing. Today you can be a drainer and heavily identify with that subculture while at the same time identifying with the subculture around hardcore. It doesnt mean the subcultures themselves are disappearing, but rather that they have become less ”centralized”
I totally feel like you've struck gold with this observation. And I can't help but notice that the reason this has happened is fast fashion. Back in the day punks invested in their pieces and the same for all the rest, but since the end of the 1990s - coincidentally the dot com bubble and the rise of the fast fashion industry happening simultaneously. And the result is as you very well labelled "less centralised subcultures" or maybe diluted is a good word too.
A part of me also believes it’s possible for some subcultures to possibly be offline and harder to surface. I know there’s the opposite where very online people are easy to spot irl. I wonder how much subculture is written in hindsight with a strong emphasis on those that are highly visible (ex. Skater culture)
@@montez.youtube interesting way of thinking about it. Reminds me of this sentence I read the other day “you can tell someone’s screen time by the way the are dressed” rings true doesn’t it
Which is fine i think, like dive into different cultures and find different things to like, just be very mindful of bringing authenticity to those areas and research them well and be about that. For example im very much into minimal modern goth, not that much into the morbid and super eerie dark eyeshadowy full top to bottom lace and flannel part of it.
@@annaschultz2424 where did you read that
“You need to make more work” this advice works for anything you want to do 🙏🏾
Yeah there's this pretty well known Danish graffiti artist that are known for having a ton of styles and evolving all the time.
His thing is pretty much, if you don't do that much work you tend to stick to your style and just make small adjustments and slowly evolve it. So he does as many pieces as he possibly can, because that makes him bored with his style and makes him switch it up more.
For the notion of “subculture”, I highly recommend everyone read Dick Hebdige’s “Subculture: The Meaning of Style” if you haven’t already… then for the idea of ~culture~ more broadly: Theodor Adorno & Max Horkheimer’s “The Culture Industry - Enlightenment as Mass Deception”. You’re welcome 😇🤗❤️
smartest fashion UA-camr out there - funny, insightful, well-spoken, encyclopedic knowledge of fashion's history.
I appreciate the kind words! But I definitely do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of anything haha 😂
Damn, Rick is still that popular? Maybe the people complaining are newer fans and missed the goth ninja/health goth trend when people could easily confuse your prized RO for Zara. Bliss' advice is spot on though. I'd go even further and say if your feelings towards a brand and its clothes change because they're trendier than you like at any given moment, maybe those feelings are shallow in the first place. Liking it just because its feels exclusively cool is a trend in another sense. But, if you're unphased and can outlast the ebbs and flows of trends, your sense of personal style is reinforced, and you end up with even more pieces available on the secondhand market to pick from.
This comment got me re-evaluating my own tastes damn. Thanks
Well put...
Amen
You are not cool, if you wear fashion not because you truly like it, but because very few people like it/wear it/know about it and your whole shtick is "I'm special that way", no you're just a fashion snob. And snobbery is never cool. Because snobs care what other people think about their tastes. Truly cool does not need the validation of other people's opinions.
I wish people could just like things, and let others like things, without all this self justafacation & comparison to each other...
I design knitwear. I’m currently working on a dress in time for the Met Gala. I’ve created maybe 5 prototypes in the past month and I still don’t think the final dress is great. I have to keep reminding my perfectionist brain that this is my first dress and I can only go up from here if I continue to put in the work.
What helps me in the garment making process is note taking during every part of the process. What’s working, what’s not working, etc.
so dope! hope all goes well wit it 🤞🏼
@@mikey-yx9js thanks, mikey! 🥹
Hey good luck with that💖 i do have a few questions do u use bliss's discord?
The Dunkey/ Bliss Foster crossover is insane
I liked your advice to new designers. I feel like everyone answers this type of question with steps that never seemed to help me that much. I've been consciously trying to improve my art and I found it's like you said: you figure it out by persisting. When you keep trying, you get your answers one way or another. You're forced to face the problems basically.
I've been watching this channel for a couple weeks now and also a couple channels of tips for how to look fashionable (cropped pants, slim long-sleeve shirts, boxy cuts) and I'm just learning but I'm starting to realize there is a large divide between the fashion of people wanting to look smart and the fashion of houses and runways. But I'm also seeing yet a third area now that I've accidentally walked into. I visited a Saks Fifth Avenue for the first time ever and saw a bunch of clothes that I thought were just gorgeous. And I bought a Robert Graham shirt that has the print on it, but the inside is just white fabric, yet it looks like a cashmere sweater, but it's cotton, and it just looks so good on me. So I thought it would be my first fashion purchase and I was excited to take my first step into this world. Especially because I could afford it (on sale for $124). But then I looked up Robert Graham and couldn't find his house or runway shows and then I suddenly realized that Saks Fifth Avenue also has clothes that aren't made by a house. And another reflection is that I didn't see any Margiela there, although I did see some Alexander McQueen shoes. But yeah. Is Robert Graham even considered Fashion with a capital F or is it fashion with a lower case f, or is it not even that well defined yet? I understand the fashion community is small so I'd understand if there aren't any hard/fast facts about this differentiation.
This is a great question! To answer it directly, most people in this community wouldn’t consider Robert Graham to be capital F fashion. HOWEVER, I have a Robert Graham shirt, and I like it a lot. He’s got some misses but he does stuff with shirting sometimes that’s hard to find anywhere else. If you wanna see mine it’s in an episode called “Find Your Personal Style on a Budget (Tough Love)”.
If you’d like to look into how to get ahold of some capital F fashion pieces without going into debt, I recommend checking out that full episode ⬆️ and other ones by me called
“How to Find Designer Clothes Cheap Online”
“How to Start with Fashion”
“5 Ways to Shop for Better Clothes”
“Fashion FOMO: How to be Happier with Your Closet”
“A Love Letter to Fashion”
Best of luck! 💫💫
With the popularity of the internet, subcultures have inevitable reached a point where they can hardly be called that,due to each subculture having more and more ways to connect people by having platforms where it’s possible. Brands (fast fashion brands especially) always take advantage of subculture and popularize them.
We think our style will not become trendy because it doesn’t fit what should be popular. And then x amount of years later, boom, it is. Every subcluture has elements that are less divisive to the point where it can become popular, bringing the entire subculture with it.
Excuse my scattered thinking, I am much too tired haha. But what I mean is, subcultures as we know it don’t longer exist like they used to.
Flea Market Customs is definitely the new subculture! You see it all over even on celebrities! Please do a segment on DIY culture! Please Bliss🙏🏾
The new subculture? Pls do some research about subculture…
@@Caspian_Pirates_Unite new as in the same way 00s fashion is the “new” thing. DIY is huge rn. Probably the “hypest” it’s ever been. Open your eyes
It’s fascinating how some brands have such close alignment between their creative display and available products and others have such a disconnection. Where there is the significant disconnection it feels like the marketing machine is forced upon us and there are many that submit.
hearing you talk about fashion is so refreshing thnx
I love the first take on popular culture, it is almost inherent that we as a society look at popular culture as lesser than. Which in a sense, comes from legitimate fears of the inevitable saturation caused by masses flocking to a certain trend. Though i would argue this maybe is just natural. Instead of looking at popular culture as positive or negative, we should maybe instead just see it as a natural progression. Maybe something becomes popular, when a culmination of things happen around design/art/culture when it is just right in its timing? Maybe its enforced by celebrities? Maybe both? No matter what the reason is, i think devaluing the creator of the thing that happens to enter popular culture, is on you as an individual. Instead of looking down on it, maybe we should praise the person for creating something that manages to be accepted by overall society. As popular culture is the bigger mass.
In the vein of becoming a homogenized society, I think of the globalization of “western” clothes. I’ve been all over the world and seen people wearing discarded gap and H&M in Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Ghana, etc and it all looks slightly different. No matter what people adopt from the universal energy, I think that the interpretation of it will vary slightly depending on the context of their life and location. While fashion has become mainstream (and I’d argue more accessible to those who want to partake), there are indubitably shallow participants who are buying into the subculture of trend from a fashion nova or target, but I also think it becomes a new way to partake as those who want to wear their clothes as art and individual expression have to dig deeper in order to seek and gain the satisfaction of knowing they’re dressing with intentionality. Just because it’s looks the “same”, doest mean it’s not still different (double negative, but point standing).
I love the sobriety of this and also your humility to say you don’t know or still don’t have an opinion on certain subjects.
My dad has always done construction for a living. Carhartt was affordable and durable. And now he doesn't buy the brand due to the high prices. Celebrities have hyped up the brand to the point of making it impossible for others to buy it for affordable prices.
That's kinda sad honestly. I always wore Blundstone for house work and gardening (bought them at hardware stores) but now the quality isn't quite the same plus twice as expensive.
@@xXcangjieXx In the last Kenzo show, Kanye West's girlfriend wore Carhartt jeans, those sold out online within a day. Its sad to see quality go down too like in your case. It is better to just save our money and shop another brand that is both durable and affordable.
the brand did that not The celebrity, The brand saw it fit for their business to create exclusivity
Prices are up in general cause of inflation
@@AustynRich It happened way before inflation.
*OH MY GOD* Tommy Nutter is my GOD - please to a 30 minute video on Tommy Nutter
If I ever got good enough I will recreate some of his work - but OMG, I have no concept of how he matched the shoulders - I think he MUST have had the fabric made to have the correct size check in relation to the radius of the shoulder.
What great questions and terrific responses, and comments! The thing that I really want to say is that my worry with the growth of virtual fashion is that it will satisfy & dumb down what we each need to be thinking about… which is surely the reality of life in this era. Is satisfying the innate urges of many people to “reach for the stars” in their clothing choices virtually really going to address the terrible waste & pollution created by the clothing industry? I mean save up for 1 truly special real piece of clothing look after it learn how to mend it, be thrilled every time you look at it… know the story of the maker, that they are living a good real life, not slaving away in a miserable sweat shop. Buy clothing that really says something about who you really are not who you virtually are….To me it seems that the awful world of one upmanship we see on Instagram creates this sense of dissatisfaction that propels so many into the fast fashion shops, to buy the low quality items that have ripped off and totally negate the ideas stolen from real designers who have a real story to tell! The thought that some how virtual fashion can save the planet seems naive to me, unless we are all going to be happy hiding in front of our computers in black sweats pretending that we have extraordinary style, it seems pretty sad, and shallow…
I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️ but surely being grounded in reality, living with a conscious purpose is what we all need…
Sorry everyone for the rant, but I’m having trouble sleeping it’s 3.47am in Australia 🙈😵💫… I love ❤️ this channel!🥰😍🙋🏻♀️
I‘m studying fashion design in Berlin at the moment and the thing about creating prototypes made me accutely aware of something. almost nobody in my degree completes more than 2/3 prototypes for different pieces in 3 months/ 1 semester. because nobody demands more of us. that‘s why pretty much everyone is not that great at what they do and this just kinda shook me right now because obviously! you won‘t become great on only 3 prototypes in 3 months. what are we thinking haha. but I also feel like the younger the generation the lazier we get. don‘t know if that‘s true, just my observation
This video is awesome I really appreciate your job and your dedication to this channel Bliss, THANK YOU!
for the first question, i own a pair of ramones and they were kinda my gateway to fashion. i make it a note in my head that i am not those people. like you said it’s kinda just something you have to live with and accept🤷♂️
Subcultures require a certain amount of insularity to become their own unique thing. So drag queens in New York in the 80's, Punks in the 70's, work-specific subcultures like Iron Workers or Cowboys - they all incubated and emerged very independently of mainstream attention. No one paid attention to them until years after the group had formed and its members had become completely subsumed into it. It would be extremely hard for a true subculture to get going these days just because of how visible everyone is. The second a group identity starts to solidify there's a gazillion phone cameras, Instagram accounts, message boards and media types observing, commenting, and ultimately co-opting any special aspects of it for mass consumption. And that, I think, is kind of sad. Since finding a subculture was a way of finding community or family for so many throughout our history since we industrialized.
Celebrity STYLIST ruining fashion?
I'm a producer and I work alot in fashion too since music and fashion is so related, + I'm 17 so really see alot of what happens with our generation. I really can confirm that some subcultures are being created more and more and that underground movements are starting more and more to expend and be something truly great like we saw in past generation. I think that even if in the last fews years we might of seen less and less underground subcultures being developped, people of my age are clearly bringing it back. Not even talking about internet subcultures but full on movements. This will give alot of hope to some of yall I'm sure. The culture is still growing and I'm sure that in a fews years we'll really see the full potential of news movements that are just starting out and promising
I don’t really think you correctly engaged with the first question: I don’t think they have any issue with celebrities wearing/promoting brands, but with what I’ll call “moodboard culture”. Especially on instagram. Everyone is wearing the EXACT SAME things in the EXACT SAME way. “Rick doesn’t have notable pieces…’ absolutely false! Now, to people in different circles of Rick hell those items may be different (ie. for people who’ve long followed, that would be like a Dunk, “Mastodon” runway pant or a “Moody” vest) but the Ramones, Geobaskets, Kiss Heels and maybe a pant (creatch?) are absolutely oversaturated. There are legions of people who don’t know who Rick is and don’t care and only bought them because they saw them on JT or Carti or something. It evokes Baudrillard’s “Simulation and Simulacra”. They’re seeking the sign value and not participating with anything else. It’s “I have the cool instagram shoes!” and “Look what I can afford.” and not for genuine love of the brand, designer or even aesthetic. For instance, the way Balenciaga is shoved down our throats with Kim all the time is another great example. Many people will buy those crazy leggings and heels to be like her, but they largely are not participating with the brand beyond those (and the chunky sneakers).
Back to the “moodboard” comment - people just want to be able to download someone else’s style “bar-for-bar” as some would say. Clearly I’m not a fan.
I remember hearing a funny talk on Swedish radio years ago about "trash" celebrity and an anecdote about Victoria Beckham buying a bag from LV that was very popular at the time and a high up manager realizing the bag would now be associated with WT just sighed "can't anybody stop her?!?
Subcultures do still exist, but fashion/clothing/presentation seems less integral to them. People more or less dress the same, regardless what they're into, with the greatest signifier being what graphic is on your tee. There are still uniforms to a degree, but fashion feels like it operates on a separate plane now, as opposed to some subcultures identity and collective interest manifesting itself as a style. I'd argue that actually participating in trends like y2k, goth academia, whatever else, is the subculture itself, since as mentioned most people dress the same. In recent years, clothing has perhaps been most effective at broadcasting political/social values, like maga hats, or more recently how masks have been politicized.
People's interests can also be incredibly broad these days, belonging to multiple groups, due to the ig, reddit and other platforms, so perhaps belonging to any one subculture is also less integral to someone's overall identity and resulting presentation. I do think subcultures can exist outside the internet but there are fewer with each passing day. Even cruising has been appified.
I think the whole argument that subcultures are dead is too often viewed in a fashion vacuum. I only ever hear fashion people talk about it, granted I don't go out of my way to find additional reading on the subject so 🤷
there are like micro subcultures emerging from tiktok tbh, but they are more so just trends, and because people are confused asf on what they like, or maybe they subconsciously or consciously like being trendy and hip with the newest tiktok "core", they just hop on from trend to trend like its nothing, so theres really no big subcultures like the punks or emos. Tho there are people that are really into the "skater" subculture and it really shows in more than just clothes, but thats ofc been a thing for years. Also where i live ive seen lots of kids convert from being skaters 2 years ago to now dressing and acting like roadmen, so i guess thats a subculture? Idk bro
not me sitting here taking notes on this whole video 👀👜
Yo youtube is here
???
Wth yt here 🗿
Love your vids.
hi youtube
Subcultures going forward will mostly just be very nuanced permutations and combinations and sort of different ratios of certain things so as to create a completely new design language for a brand. Thanks to the internet i guess
That folks who asked will Hedi Slimane do well in Maison Margriel must be a very creative person.
I like how the comment section is equally as interesting as the video. The discord must be even better.
There's actually a whole paradigm of sociological thought that asserts that we are in a post-subcultural world. As the internet further shrinks the world down and society further emphasizes individuality as opposed to community, the term "subculture" is ultimately useless when discussing culture today. The term subculture has a connotation of commitment around it that for many people today seems to box them into certain groups. Most people like to think of themselves as fluid, and that their tastes transcend neatly packaged genres or labels, and would rather pull from a myriad of diverse influences. A lot of people today are broadly interested in subculture, but there's not many left. The only two modern internet groups I can think of that apply to the traditional context of subculture are maybe furries and incels but even then, incel aesthetics are more concerned with "genetics" than fashion and furry style is concerned with fashion but the main focal point is their obsession with anthropomorphic animals more than fashion. Fashion is an add-on but not a requirement in furry culture so there's less development of furry style.
Andy Bennett and Keith Kahn-Harris do a good job of exploring post-subcultural theory more in-depth in their book "After Subculture: Critical Studies in Contemporary Youth Culture". It was published in 2004 but a lot of the takeaways are more than relevant today.
This is great! Thanks so much for sharing! I’m really excited to hear your thoughts about the video that will be public on Monday. I spend about 12 minutes talking just about this topic. I would love to hear from you tomorrow 💫💫
@@BlissFoster I will gladly be tuning in.
I think there are still subcultures and such, but I think it takes way more to be immersed in one. For example, dark academia is considered an aesthetic, but I’ve gone deeper into it and it’s also basically a subculture. There are entire academia communities online that spend time on learning classics, classical instruments, sharing their writing, ideas, etc. From the outside looking in, it’s an aesthetic, but I think once you get further and further into it you can reach a subculture. So all subcultures have an aesthetic, but not all aesthetics are subcultures if that makes sense. I think designers are pulling from aesthetics for sure especially when I look at current trending aesthetics and high fashion.
Subculture...Real actual subcultures do exist but not in the way that they used to. China, India, latín América, the content of Africa, the middle east....places with actual conflict and social debate generate real subcultures. The US is not the world...the west is not the world...those places don't really have subculture in the same way...but kind of...for the ultra poor. Poor= creative. Conflict=creative, classism, sexism and homophobia= creativity. I personally have been around the world so many times for the last 20 years, gentrification is global and what gentrification does is neutralize threat and diversity. Threats and diversity breed the underground that create subcultures.
I see a lot of people mad about the growing rick owens hype, but don’t forget about the whole time it was popular during 2012-2013 with a$ap rocky, and celebrities have continued to wear it, it’s just becoming more popular and the audience is widening because of social media, which I don’t see as a bad thing
The way I see it playing out for myself honestly is like this....
I'm already living in Paris so I my access to important players and potential clients is fairly high as a designer... and I've spent years making sure that what I'm coming out with is as pre-developed as it could possibly be given my logistical constraints.
So when it comes to posting online I'm scared for my life. Mainly because I'm starting from absolute zero and I'd get so angry knowing that 2 or 3 seasons in there's brands biting my concepts. Knowing full well how difficult it already is to reach and operate on a world class level when you're just a single self taught guy. Or having my taste fall into the wrong hands. SMH
So the script is to be as private as possible on social media all while running a very boots on the ground operation outside in the city. Amass a clientele base with a sense of community, amass content and a very compelling body of work but manage to stay under the radar for a few years...
No virality, no promoting into the empty void, no product placement. nothing mainstream, no tiktok, just gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss lol
yo same I totally agree! That's why I've given up social media, excluding youtube. I'm honestly trying to forget most concepts of present fashion and start up like I'm in the 80's. It's really all about community now. People want to be apart of something, that kinship. But I say if you make quality items for a good amount of time people will find you, something more loyal than subscribers/followers. It's so hard being offline as a creative while the way of the world is being online; why can't we go back to the days of carrier pigeons?
@@YuQissu it takes a special breed. It takes conviction and bravery.
Eugene Rabkin should definitely invite you on his podcast or vice versa - I can only imagine what an interesting conversation would turn out!
Hi again Bliss (sorry about not being able to afford the patreon atm! I'll rejoin eventually!
I would love for you to Discuss Goth fashion and it’s impact on fashion. And also the subculture at large.
Thanks for all your insights today, David 🦾 That’s a great idea! I know very little about goth culture at large. If you’re willing, I’d love it if you reached out to me on IG to give me some starting research 💫💫
I'd Love to hear your opinion on MA+ !
I'm always intrigued by questions about identity/subculture, because I think it's changed so fundamentally in recent times, due to the internet and fast fashion, that it's become difficult to categorize since our definitions haven't caught up yet. The internet creating visibility for fashion means that people are now aware of little that's being created is new, or small, and how much is just drawing from what's already been done- hence the resurgence of older subcultures. The idea of creating something unique seems somewhat futile when fast fashion quickly commodities it, and makes adopting it fairly easy, so I don't think that clothes really hold the same significance within subcultures anymore. Also, we're in a time where we('re supposed to) value openness more than exclusivity so people are more willing to adopt things they aren't particularly connected to.
If fashion says anything about identity, it's mostly about fashion to other people who are also interested in fashion, since those are the people who get the significance. I play a mobile rpg with a ton of cosmetics, and while you have people who wear whatever, or what's new, or costs real world money, you can still spot the people who are making intentional aesthetic choices which, frankly, has little overlap with irl aesthetic choices. I don't know much about digital fashion, but I think the attitudes of/around (fashion) influencers and people with large closets both here and on Instagram are pretty telling- they do all those things, yes, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just another niche.
I’m so glad I clicked to watch this. I missed your stuff. I’m enjoying the conversation, sincerely. 🗿🗣
Allow me some paraphrasing here: “The temptation with a lot of creative efforts, is to fall in love with the idea of creativity. Instead of with the process of creativity.” BINGO! …that line will be going up on the walls of my studio, as being a quote attributed to
Y❤️U!
Haha this is not my idea 😆 I’ve heard this from dozens of creators. Very true advice tho!
Hi it’s interesting that you used animation as your example because at the moment most blockbuster films have a huge animation component involved and the Hilo wood techniques used have really pushed the animation industry forward; avatar can be a case study. I think the fashion industry might embrace it as a tool and in turn shape the use of the tool by influencing the physical look of the device and also the digital interaction
I think it's fair to say that "digital" fashion and and regular fashion are two in the same at this point and it's only a matter of time until the line continues to blur.
Considering Balenciaga's "World of Clones" that you made a video on, a digital runway show that mimics live action, while only existing in a digital space. The fact that mostly all fashion is consumed through digital media... we can expect to see more and more artists expanding on this
My biggest hate in fashion is brands lending influencers pieces, every influencer wears the same pieces and so many brands that it looks like they have no style. Im pretty much not buying brands that use influencers now.
That’s such a neat hoodie
which brand/model is that?
I enjoyed this episode these were very intelligent and well thought out answers
On subcultures, I think I that they do still emerge... but I'm not sure they influence fashion anymore. Digital subcultures pop-up all the time. Stuff like videogame streamers, esports, vtubers, and retro tech enthusiasts. Some of these bleed into peoples lives aesthetically in different ways, like the infamous "streamer room" filled with neon lights, and a mini-fridge stocked with Monsters. Or vtubers and they're digital spaces that they customize.
I do think that it can sort of blend into already popular fashion trends. Things like "theme-ing" over design. Instead of these unique silhouettes were we see cuts, and layers that define the shape of fashion... we see a lot more general purpose fashion throughout history compiled into colors, and concepts. So I feel like it's too easy to write off subcultures as something that have died off as a dominant aspect to peoples lives. Those people that partake in the ones I mentioned do so very prominently from what I've seen. I bounce around between subcultures (similar to what you described in one of your recent videos on the topic) so I've met the devoted individuals and people like myself or other internet denizens.
And it does effect the "uniform" so to speak. Streamers, and Esports guys wear hoodies/tshirts, and snapbacks a lot for instance. It does seem to be a much rarer thing, and the ones that do pop up seem to develop from online/digital influence over things like music genres and the like. I think there's even an argument to be made for the Instagram subculture of wearing and carrying around photo-tech that could be seen as a fashion influence even it isn't conventional "clothing"
The internet does seem to dilute the value of art in general imo.
Tbh fashion is going to shift again before it makes a huge leap in another direction. Many designers aren’t standing out as they each implement the same systems. Yes they work, but as most businesses perform, they’re relying too much on digital and not enough on true life itself. Kanye does a great job with his ideas. The relatability. The humility. The ideal unfashionable genius flow he is always in is different. He can set a trend effortlessly. Sticks true to his vision. He will be creating as long as he has the platform. That’s my partial insight of the state of fashion and directing the path forward.
I actually think the genuine vs irony point really connects to the conversation around subculture, in my eyes a big part of the seeming death of subcultures is that things have skewed so far into irony and there’s less of the genuineness that came from subcultures before.
O Hi there Bliss “I only see you here” and you’re going on strong. All power to you. You just get better.
Great vlog, we agree with you concerning digital fashion
on that last question, i'll never not watch every thom browne runway
well speaking from my experience in portugal, metal is dead. its not a trend anymore, emo trap is, and although i really like the new dark trap wave, i miss meeting metal fans. that can only be achieved in two summer metal festivals per year. i think that led to a decline in edgyness in fashion itself. things were much darker and bol in the 70s. i have to make my own clothes because i cant find any that fit my style. subcultures are alive, i think its up for gen z to give us voice again. which is what i always try to do with my work
bold *
Good advice for upcoming designers and can apply to other disciplines.
I love your Channel, i personally think digital fashion and NFTS are going to become ways for Celebritys to separate from normal people, therefore spoiling and making fashion less sincere. Greetings from Colombia.
Maybe when Augmented Reality glasses arrive. Maybe Then it’ll make sense that you will probably see digital garments accented on existing outfits. But purely digital fashion garments solely for Instagram/TikTok posts will probably not adopt widely imo
Yes... the answer is yes, and for me if they're wearing it right now it ISN'T very good.
I dont make certain outfit more as the way Pinterest algorithm works. I love some outfits, but you can have way to much of a good thing.
Otherwise Id probably be designing womens military beach wear and modern updates to 50s fashion.
8:45 nope ! Absolutely not ! I mean I agree with u ! i think animation and the real person movie have their own irreplaceable features. The tech of express the emotion and the narrative shot can be incredibly different, and it is interesting to compare them and dig in the works have application of the tech from each other, how’s the effect of many kinds of innovative experiment. Some topics done well in animation or real person while another is not that good. Sometimes the way of animation and real person to present same theme can interestingly differ🙌🏻
(Sry if i make any mistake in my Eng, not native
I loved the thing you said about inserity and irony. I personally see myself more on the inserity side
Celebrities have always appreciated fashion but before the early 00s, celebrities weren't really a part of the industry. Fashion was an insular industry run by people with years of fashion education and experience. Currently, the industry is heavy (sometimes too much so) on trends and social media engagement.
not wearing something just because its well know has got to be the most cringe shit ever. passive gatekeeping and talking about "I only where less know pieces" is literally the same as standing in a supreme line. this shit is embarrassing lol
Yeah, i mean they just trends at the end of the day, what’s hot right now might not be hot in a year, so idc, if you like something just wear it for you, not because somebody else is wearing it or isn’t lol
The subcultures are still around but the likelihood of designers being able to pull from them is really low because to access them you're going to have to be REALLY online, break through the algorithm and get expressed to in groups that are not picked up by the mainstream... yet. For instance the Decora subculture is smashed up and redefined by the new kids every 6-7 years, but to differentiate them you have to be in the culture
Shoutout Dunkey, original leaker of the Donda tapes
I love hedi slimane and obsessed over his stuff for Dior Homme years ago so my ears pricked up when u answered why he wouldn’t be right for margiela. I totally agree - you’re absolutely right: his aesthetic would displace the essence of M. I kinda stopped following him after Dior as saint laurent and celine were starting to repeat themes done. I’m surprised he’s not got own line now and correct me if I’m wrong there. Thanks bliss - loving your hair today. Now following u on instagram 2 me lovely!
I think subcultures are less and less present since with the internet everyone can easily find the niche communities they feel they belong to, and when it's becoming popular enough to make money, fast fashion brands take advantage of it.
I'd argue that the "real" subcultures left are the thing the mass market kinda mocks or underestimate, and i'd argue that the crypto/metaverse/nft things can be considered a subculture that involves fashion, because the high majority of people don't know what it is (and im one of them) and no major fast fashion brands started making money out of it, but it looks like fashion will take inspiration out of it in the near future (again it's just speculation im not a part of this community at all)
If you have lived long enough...like through the 80s and 90s ( but still looking snatched) you will know that this is all on repeat. There is not much out in the world of fashion that is being done that is new or different. Since the 80s fashion has been ultra tamed to reach the masses, there is just no incentive to be experimental in fashion or society in general. Sad, but maybe there will be a desire to be different again. (Note: This statement is based on life in Europe and North America)
Even though this is a 4-month- video I still kind of want to answer this question I think subcultures are dead at this point but I also think replacing that are Aesthetics which a lot of brands do pull heavy inspiration from like you got the cottage core people and there are brand specifically for cottagecore and brands that are specifically for the Coquette aesthetic although I don't think brands are thinking of these as subcultures but as, like I said Aesthetics
was the book on Nutter called "House of Nutter: The Rebel Tailor of Savile Row" ?
Yup 💫💫
@@BlissFoster thanks Bliss, I'll read it at work while there's no customers in
There are like micro subcultures emerging from TikTok tbh, but they are more so just trends. And because people are confused asf on what they like, or maybe they subconsciously or consciously like being trendy and hip with the newest tiktok "core", they just hop on from trend to trend like its nothing, so theres really no big subcultures like the punks or emos. Tho there are people that are really into the "skater" subculture and it really shows in more than just clothes, but thats ofc been a thing for years. Also where i live ive seen lots of kids convert from being skaters 2 years ago to now dressing and acting like roadmen, so i guess thats a subculture? Also this sounds a little weird, but i guess you could call the "opium" trend a subculture, people are really die-hard fans of the fashion, music and way of life. But i dont see any designers benefiting from it because the opium aesthetic is just people wearing rick and balenciaga in a way carti or destroy lonely does. I also feel a kind of same way about the Semetary and haunted mound aesthetic.
Loved the Dunkey reference
Hi there, thanks for the video. I have been watching the celebrities for a number of years.
I feel celebrities are damaging the fashion industry. A lot of brands have ended up been under on single corporate ownership, which is really bad on a creative level, as the design departments, are really small and do not employ enough people.
The celebrities do use these brands to make money, but damage domestic industries by not supporting them. This showed up in the covid at the Oscar’s, it would be thought in less travel the celebrities would support home industries, it would of been easier and made sense, but no, they were still flogging the brands. I do not think the ordinary folk should support celebrity endorsed fashion. We should make our own, maybe with skill be even better.
Keep going, you're doing important work!
Oooooh I’ve been waiting for this one!!!
So basically at the end of fashion all it's about is Exclusivity when your at the top of it all. I don't want to ever get that deep into fashion when I have to start worrying about all the politics behind it.
Wait where are you getting that it’s about exclusivity? 🤔 I have over 100 videos arguing that fashion is an artform and is about much more than celebrity, exclusivity, etc.
ps. i produced over 200 prototypes in 2 years...more on the way! and have the next two years in the design phase! Awesome videos! Very informative...Sky-Eagle Collection
Re @ 9:20 … for the 200th time… you need to pay attention to brands like The Plagiarist and Pyer Moss. There’s so much out there but they tend to get overlooked.
I’ve done all whole episode on Pyer Moss and mentioned them many different times 💫💫
if I could go back in time I'd ask my grandma to teach me to sew, at least enough to do repairs.
I could imagine digital fashion becoming an extention of analog fashion and vice versa. Clothing and fashion play a huge role in communicating our identity in our everyday life. Now, for example, if a larger part of our everyday life would take place in a digital space, analog clothing would in a way loose a part of it's value because it can't communicate anything in a digital space. So should something like a migration into a metaverse take place in the future, I could imagine that clothing and fashion will more and more come with digital counterparts that our avatars can wear to retain it's value enable us to express our identity in a digital space. I'm not saying this is how it should go, i find the thought of a metaverse quite dystopian, but I have a feeling my prediction might come true.
I only knew about Rick because of Carti but now I just love all their pieces sm and I really don’t gaf about the trend. I only have Tyrone denim and a wallet so far. I’m not ever planing on buying Ramones cos it would feel fake
On the other end of the spectrum, there is the birth of the Virtual Fashion Houses...User Generated un-polished content... Will Web 3.0 define who runs fashion? Thanks for all you do Bliss...
Agree on the metaverse...but look at the web 3.0 decentral concept...could be the death of the big houses, not unless they get onboard, ...waiting on the digital fashion discussion!
Fashion is fashion is fashion
Thank you
coming here to say that i think we’re always gonna have subcultures. and especially now when the youth strive to be set apart. for example the trends on tiktok leaking into style (e.g. Luka Blovad, Cory infinite who style more eclectically could be compared to y/project in a more affordable and DIY sense). any dramatic move in society creates a subculture. so i believe yes there are still some.
I really feels that demna putting cover on kim is the most modern's margiela thing
My question is why are actors and actresses so obsessed with luxury and fashion. Like why does it correlate.
Didn’t expect to hear dunkey mentioned in this video lol.
Bliss is Bliss
anyone who thinks subcultures are dead isn't living the subculture life hard enough. if people allowed a subculture (mine is EGL/ouji/Japanese gothic fashion) to become a true passion, there would be not a single doubt as to whether subcultures are around anymore. meetups, in-jokes, zines, blogs, discord servers, swap meets-- subcultures are growing, changing, and thriving once someone gets close enough to look
sorry this got a lil heated! it's common in my subculture to say "x is dying" or "y is killing the subculture" (dating back to "punk is dead") and i'm honestly tired of it. people will find a way to gather, to rebel, to make new aesthetics and communities and lifelong friendships regardless of whether it's the 'true' or 'correct' way to make a subculture. the kind of nihilistic narrative that states that subcultures, countercultures, and the nonconformist creativity they signify is somehow out of reach (either due to technology or perceived faults in youth as a group) is deeply depressing and misanthropic.
Teenagers can love something deeply and knowingly though. As other people, there always will be people enjoying some specific things in a superficial way and others that try to know more about it and i think both are okay as long as you don't close your eyes on the ethical/political implications of it (i.e. luxury brands being owned by a mega group directed by an old facist prick, or fast fashion, or luxury brand also producing overseas and exploiting their workers and other countries ressources)
Does someone know where his hoodie is coming from ? It’s interesting
ID’s for my outfits are always in the first couple seconds of every video 💫💫
Fashion is so badly ruined that being a model is the most tacky job out there. People are obsessed with such jobs because of money and all the attention models get though everyone can see it's just not worth it anymore.
I have the same painted toy gypsy cart that's on your shelf! Are you Of Italian heritage?
Nope! My dad just has a really eccentric house
Would you consider cottagecore, dark academia and more recently old money aesthetic subcultures? None of these are really innovative though.
I would categorize those as trends, personally 💫💫