DID THEY GET IT WRONG?!?! Reacting to "Goku vs Superman Death Battle"
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
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Superman is the man without limits, Goku is the man who overcome any limit.
yet superman has died before.
@@macdaddy1376 yet goku has died before
@@macdaddy1376 Yeah, and Goku did too.
What's your point?
@@TnT_F0X how can he have no limits when death is his? Goku has overcome death, therefore he's stronger objectively.
@@fabiosonhandogrande1697 and he was still beating up villains
Personally duck, my opinion as a person who grew up reading, learning, and researching both Superman and Dragonball Z, is that, even though the information in this video is wrong, I believe Superman still would win regardless.
Agreed.
Dragon Ball fans seem to be an especially salty bunch when the idea that their franchise and it's protagonist are not the most powerful in all of fiction are brought up, not just with Death Battle but with Vs battles in general all around the internet. This video undersells Goku like hell and the research is crap, as it is in most Death Battle episodes, but in reality Goku isn't the ultimate fictional character like DB fanboys insist he is.
Agreed. Especially if you go with some of the more insanely powerful versions of superman.
Apparently superman can turn into god
@@theduckgoesmoo indeed he does. Crazy right?
Well not GOD himself, he can become A god . in both Dc and Marvel all religions and mythologys exist at once. Including Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.
The thing is the analysis part is what controversial, but most people agree that the outcome of the battle is still correct regardless.
dunno if anyone gives a shit but if you guys are bored like me atm then you can stream all the latest series on Instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my brother for the last few days :)
@Jaden Zev Yup, have been using instaflixxer for since december myself :D
Raditz being FTL was a dubbing error. Based on canon feats and statements (no assumptions), only Buu saga characters are lightspeed to just slightly FTL (Technically speaking, nobody in DB canon is close to being MFTL outside of anyone SSG Goku tier and up. And even there, could be scaled to quadtrillions-quintillionsxFTL) The info they had for both characters was to an extent actually correct. And IIRC, they even admitted to what they got wrong with Goku to be a typo as well.
*"piccolo blowing up the moon was almost light speed Raditz dodged his full powered attacks so no people around raditz level are ftl"*
How can we tell? We know nothing about how long it took Piccolo's attack to reach the moon.
@@rikuradical9670 piccolo blowing up the moon was almost light speed and raditz dodged his full powered attacks so no people around raditz level are ftl with buu saga characters being millions-billions of times ftl
@@codzy9384 I know this is old, but I don't know how he could type that legitimately when dodging lightning was a feat in Dragon Ball, and Lightning is only 1/3 the speed of light.
And that's not even counting the fact that attacks these characters fire travel multiple times the speed of light, as you stated.
"We never have to hear about it again" You know what they say, never say never
They have a part 2 because of all the controversy.
It was pretty good.
And they still ended up messing up that one too. It's why they'll never make a third one.
@@Plasmagon99 they said they'd never make a second one though didn't they
@@theduckgoesmoo Yeah, but they'll just wait for Goku transformation number 87k to come out first though.
@@Plasmagon99 Even if they did wait that long and Goku had a form that made him a million times stronger than the 2nd video, the outcome is still the same anyway. "Man with power to break any limit vs Being with no limits" and all that
@@Plasmagon99 Because your favorite did not win?
Look at it this way; the only thing Goku had that could even possibly cause any harm to Superman was his magic Power Pole. Superman figured that out mid-fight before Goku went SSJ3 and hucked it into space, so that was basically the winning move; everything else was essentially just for dramatic effect.
While there have been several abridgings of various DC cartoons, I'd instead recommend "I'm a Marvel. And I'm a DC." by itsjustsomerandomguy. His videos are of the various superheroes discussing and debating their upcoming movies, and he was the voice actor for Superman in this.
I loved watching it when I was a kid
I've never heard of this before
theduckgoestwo you’ll love it your brand of funny
Honestly, I feel like more than anything, this episode really shows the two most toxic sides of the death battle fanbase- the people who act like their character will always win and is better, and the people who act like death battle can do no wrong.
Personally, when it comes to the controversial fights like this, I'm way past the point of caring and just want to see a cool fight.
Agreed!!
The problem with Superman and Goku aswell is that both are so immeasurably powerful that there's pretty much an equal amount of scenarios where both can win. I don't really envy the people who had to research this video, because frankly, I think Goku Vs. Superman is about as close to a tie as you can get with VS battle scenarios.
@@marvelfannumber1 basically in reality goku can beat superman and superman can beat goku. I'd say superman wins probably 5/10 times and same with goku. What I'm trying to say is Your right, a man who overcomes his limits vs a man who has no limits is the closest you can get to a tie.
@@Sachi10007 same
We can at least agree that the fight itself was an A+
Most people generally agree with the outcome, just not the methods. Their "Gravity formula" is utter nonsense and they often equate lower limits with upper limits. (Although in their defense, that's often necessary, based off the only information available)
I wonder what the thought process was
Disregard my previous comment. DBZ feats are all over the place so it is hard to get a definitive answer.
@@theduckgoesmoo i still think the outcome is correct
Saying their Gravity Formula is "utter nonsense" is kinda BS since DBZ dont really give any accurate estimates or numbers anywhere. As such it was a very impressive attempt in my opinion to get an *idea* of Goku`s power at the time. They put him on multi- planetary level. Regardless, condering the rule of maximum potential, Goku is not winning a Death Battle against Superman anyway. It does not really matter if there are flaws in the process when the equation is correct anyway.
@@Morten_Storvik you mention that DBZ doesn't have numbers or estimates for their power. Have u even seen DBZ? Firstly, there is literally a thing called "power levels" which are used up until the end of the frieza saga. Secondly, the characters literally state how strong they are. Frieza is star level. Cell is solar system level. Buu is galaxy level. Beerus is universal+.
The only reason you see it as an issue, is because you are not a scaler or a debater, you are a normal viewer. For a normal viewer, you just need to understand "goku can transform, is good at fighting and do da punch hard". But for people like me, who debate and scale dragon ball and other shows, we look in depth into the shows and figure out how strong characters are etc by their own feats and what they have done.
And like I have discussed with you on another comment thread, it is possible for goku to beat superman, especially at the level that goku is now. Like I said, superman is very inconsistent.
Think of it like a graph. Superman has different writers who all think differently and show superman at different strengths, so superman's graph would have ups, downs, curves and all sorts. While goku is a constant story with 1 writer, so his power is a lot more consistent and would be either a slowly increasing line (due to training), or would be an exponential curve due to zenkai boosts and new forms etc.
And if u really wanna bring up "well, it's strongest form vs strongest form", then u do know that death battle didn't use EITHER of them at their strongest, right? Strongest goku = xenoverse goku from the games, who is 5th dimensional minimum. Strongest superman = cosmic armour superman, who is like 23rd dimensional, but he technically isn't a superman because he is combined with another being. So the 2nd strongest form of superman = strange visitor superman who is also 5th dimensional. So infact, goku and superman tie or you go off of who is the better fighter
And "the rule of maximum potential" is bullshit. If u wanna say "well, superman can just absorb the sun's rays", firstly in a fight superman doesn't just say "hey, gimmie 10 years to get strong enough to fight u". 2nd of all, goku and all saiyans also has been said to have no limits to their potential, so ur fighting a losing battle
People really get passionate about this fight because the anime and comic fan bases both believe their side is the strongest. Personally I side with Superman even though I love Dragon Ball Z. He's intentionally written to be the most broken fictional character. Plus the research is always wonky with Death Battle.
I agree mostly, but i have a response to someone more broken than Super-man: Ben Tennyson
@@Shadowpack95 His death battle was bullshit.
Good music tho
@@Ponyman-1997 RDCworld1 also did Ben dirty in Anime House 5
@@Shadowpack95 yeah fpr that one i was just for the meme
And them messing up data just added fuel to the fire
Every death battle I see here furthers my bafflement at the amount of media isn't known to you, but I've gotta admit I like seeing first time (for real) reactions.
I feel the result is still correct since Superman was made to be DC's invincible trump card from the start, while Goku often has to train before most important fights.
Ya but they had two fights. So u can’t tell me goku should have at least won that one
@@kbridgewater1004 I still think it is Ok that Superman won. afterall, Goku will just keep finding new levels again and again.
I'm not a Superman guy so I can't really speak in regards to his feats but their calculations for Goku were INCREDIBLY off and flawed.
1. Super Saiyan 4 is not a 10x multiplier over SS3. There is no official multiplier for it. The 10x multiplier is a lowballed fan theory with no base to it.
2. They calculated Goku's speed off of Saiyan Saga Goku with their already wrong SS4 multiplier. Goku becomes MILLIONS of times stronger if not more by GT without even considering transformations. Goku's power level in the Saiyan Saga was in the low 8000s. He literally goes up to 3 million by the end of the very next arc before even transforming and his growth in his base form only continues to grow more rapidly.
3. Regarding the weight he can lift, they made the same mistake using pre-Buu Saga Goku as a base even though his base grows VERY rapidly over time.
4. For durability, they did the exact same thing AGAIN. They multiplied Saiyan Saga Goku's base by the already inaccurate SS4 multiplier to determine his durability even though, again, Goku's base in the NEXT ARC is around 375 times stronger without transforming and that growth only becomes more rapid and ridiculous over time.
This is part of why making the sequel to this when they did was a mistake given that DBS was only JUST starting at the time and we are now at a point where Goku can literally transcend time with power and speed alone and shake infinite voids just by existing.
I don't think they intentionally or maliciously lied/lowballed out of a bias or anything like that, They just had NO idea what they were doing.
They didn't actively lie but this was the best they could do as Dragon Ball doesn't really give defined limits.
Check out Seth the Programmer's take on it. The result is correct, but the math and reasoning is completely wrong.
Thank you xD. So many people just blindly accept what Deathbattle say and don't think anymore of it. Sure, for a casual "I don't wanna think about it, I just wanna have fun and stuff", then that works. But when people take that information and use it to debate and say "Yea, I got this info from Death Battle, so I know what I'm talking about", that's when it becomes annoying
@@thomashorne7512 This is from Season 1, a season they freely admitted that the were messing around with and just trying to have fun with. It not a excuse but it is a explanation.
@@kedharswaminathan7571 I mean... They still do it even now. The latest one I can think of is hulk vs broly, where they tried to use composite hulk vs multiple timelines broly. They don't know how to properly do what they are advertising, so they just half-ass it just to get a video, and most people eat it up because they don't put any thought process into it
@@thomashorne7512 Multiple Timelines Broly WTF? If you are implying that they used DBZ Broly with Super Broly then you are insanely dumb. You do realize Canon Broly outside of his 2018 film doesn’t have that much feats to go over right? As far as I remember the analysis and reasoning was based on his 2018 iteration, however ignoring DBZ Broly is like ignoring a Star War’s character Legends info just because it’s ‘non-canon’. They freely said that they would look at non-canon sources as long as it doesn’t conflict with canonical materials. If you don’t like DEATH BATTLE! that fine it’s fine and it’s your opinion but you if really think after 8 seasons of doing this show that the DB crew don’t know what they are doing then you are a idiot.
@@kedharswaminathan7571 I'm an idiot because I look at facts and I state the truth? U want me to list what's wrong with their broly analysis? First of all, they say that broly's form in the new movie is legendary super saiyan. That's wrong. The form is full power super saiyan. They also mention that he could explode if he didn't release ki, which literally has never happened. They also compare his form to kale's berserker form in the anime, despite them being different forms entirely and apart from being muscular and green haired, they have no similarities.
So because I'm aware of these FACTS I'm an idiot? Because I can actually understand when something is wrong, rather than blindly accepting whatever someone says, that makes me an idiot?
Awsome, I wanna be an idiot for the rest of my life then
Not Marvel Thor, they mean norse mythology Thor
*norse :) it's spelled with an s. :)
@@ahedjehad8514 You where so focused on the misspelled norse that you missed the misspelled mythology.
@@frankficcle7081 lol. got me there...XD
So one of the things that people have such a problem with is a calculation that they admitted they had cought fixed but the original faulty calculation ended up in the episode. You have to keep in mind that they had to make these every week plus a video every day for a company of 8 people. Today they have a team of about 20 and they just work on Deathbattle
Here are all the corrections for what they got wrong.
Goku: Strength-Goku's transformations do not just flat multiply his power no matter what, they increase it, but as he gets stronger normally, they do less for him. Gohan actually unlocks the ability to use ALL his power all the time, and it is EXPLICITLY stated turning Super Saiyan 1 or 2 would do NOTHING so he just doesn't do that, they cannot increase his max power, just help him reach it. Goku has shown some impressive feats of strength, but nothing on the level of bench pressing continents and certainly not planets or more. Physical strength is really not a factor in Goku's higher level fights, Ki is.
Superman: Strength- Virtually endless. Even if you cap it at towing planets, it's many times more than what Goku has ever done. He can literally punch with the power of stars.
Goku: Speed- Goku is NOT faster than light. ONE technique in Dragon Ball lands 100% consistently, on EVERY character, and that's the Solar Flare. A LITERAL flash of bright light. If Goku can't EVER avoid that, trying to justify him as being faster than light, is pretty stupid. He can move faster than the human eye can perceive, but that's really not super hard to do. A character much stronger than any Goku you have seen flew around the earth a few times to show off his speed, and it took him almost half an hour. Light can circle the earth 7 times, in one second. There are lots of examples, but Goku is not a faster than light fighter. His speed does not increase with his overall power, even ignoring the transformations not multiplying outright. He explains explicitly in a scene you DID see in abridged that you can focus more of your energy into hitting harder and increasing your power level, but it also makes you slower. Everything is not increases equally and a higher power level doesn't mean you're just better at every single thing. Explains Burter being the fastest in the universe when you realize that, actually.
Superman: Speed-Superman is absurdly fast. He can keep up with the Flash who can run WAAAAAAAAAAY faster than light and not just like a sprinter, running super fast, but at the cost of turning or doing precise movements. He can run like an olympic sprinter and do super precise parkour at the same time, it's crazy. And that's him at his "Alright, i should start trying" speeds. Superman can match that and if the Flash doesn't go stupid fast, he can outspeed him.
Goku: Durability-Got injured by a bullet he didn't see coming. Got injured by a laser he didn't see coming. Can be killed by big explosions. Cannot breath in space. Cannot breath underwater. Has no healing abilities. DEFINITELY cannot tough a piercing attack. Like Piccolo's makansappalapala that drills through things. Or Krillin's disc.
Superman: Durability-Can be hit by supernovae, and live. Can fly into space, and get stronger. Breathing, none required. Bullets cannot hurt him, period (unless made of kryptonite).
Conclusion, Superman is just..... he's just on another level. Even GREATLY overestimating Goku here doesn't put him on Superman's level. Not even close. Superman has stood face to face with the literal divine incarnation of evil, and killed it by singing. (I AM NOT JOKING! I CAN LINK A VIDEO THAT EXPLAINS IT!) Superman is stronger, smarter, faster, more experienced, impossible to kill unless Goku basically cheats, and even then Superman doesn't just roll over and die, he's pure of heart so his spirit bomb literally doesn't work, he can fly into the sun where Goku cannot survive and get WAY stronger very quickly, he can fight FOREVER where Goku gets exhausted after a few MINUTES, and that's on a good day.
Goku has NO way to win this fight. You'd have to do what the pissed off fanboys do and say "Well, ACTUALLY, Goku can like uhm, blow up infinite dimensional universes!"
and even THEN he still doesn't win because that would kill him too! Plus, Superman has been through a couple Multiverse ending events, he'll fix it.
Also, in anime Goku is widely (and wrongly) considered like the pinnacle of strength and power, he's THE powerhouse, and really he's... not. They can't handle that though, so they complain and THEY are the ones lying about what Goku can do. It's the fans of Dragon Ball that don't know what the numbers are. They lie, they completely misinterpret situations, often deliberately, and it's just a general mess. Oh, and it's also the CREATOR of Dragon Ball, that doesn't know what the numbers are. Literally, he didn't know what super saiyan 2 was..... I'm not making this up, he thought super saiyan 2 was super saiyan 3........ Dragon Ball started out as a GAG manga. It's JUST about joking, having fun and making people laugh. It eventually transitioned into a fighting manga outright, though with some humor still in there. However Akira Toriyama never really walked away from the roots of this show. He just does whatever he wants, raising or lowering every character's power at his own convenience. Goku when he first fights Beerus is stated to be 60% his power BY WHIS when nobody other than Beerus was around, and Beerus did not deny this.
So at the start, Goku = 60% Beerus.
Over 100 episodes later and like 5 MORE transformations, and Goku is STILL not stronger than Beerus. It's just randomly changing according to who he needs to fight.
Yup, everything here basically just shows how the fanboys simply overpower Goku for no reason and always just assumes he's always the strongest. Goku still has no way of beating Beerus or even Jiren again in his current state and certainly has no hope of fighting Whis, yet these fanboys claim he can beat Whis and Zeno.
Heck other anime characters like Sinbad, Sailor Moon, and even Pegasus Seiya are far beyond stronger and faster than Goku.
Aside from the instant transmission, Goku has not really shown any feats that is faster than light or more, where as in Saint Seiya these Saints do it on a daily basis where they outrun a big bang inflation, fly through a hyperdimension, dodge an attack that literally was mentioned to be faster than light as he throws 100 million punches in a second at them, etc.
I agree pretty much with everything you said except for one thing: the super saiyan transformation IS a multiplier with, as of right now, the limit being super saiyan 3 - since the stress rises with each transformation.
As you know, gohan had his potential unlocked by the elder kai which (for the sake of argument) was equal to ssj3; thus having gohan escalating from someone who was the weakest ssj to being someone equal to ssj3 goku.
The reason for that is because his full potential AT THE TIME was unlocked, thus giving him access to his latent super saiyan power. Gohan can still transform into a super saiyan but it wouldn’t give him anything he already has in his ultimate gohan form - except for the negative stress that comes with the super saiyan transformations - which is why he doesn’t use it.
Let me start by saying that ultimately Superman does win, it’s not a contest when you factor in Superman’s feats plus the narrative fact of his limitless potential.
However, you are sorely misguided about Goku’s potential. Now, from a narrative perspective, you were right that Goku’s stats are inconsistent because Akira Toriyama didn’t care so much about consistent and rational increases, he just made a scary threat, threw some scary words and numbers in, and then made sure that Goku could win or almost win. So it’s really hard to pinpoint some things with Goku. However, I’d say that the best way to scale Goku is to go by his early feats and then estimating his increases as he gets older. Considering strength, King Piccolo was considered a planetary threat, or someone with the strength to destroy a planet. Goku matched him and ultimately ran through him, indicating that as a kid, Goku was planetary. He got significantly stronger up to the end of DB, then of course training with King Kai, training in the pod on the way to Namek reaching 100x gravity, the multiple zenkai boosts, reaching SSJ levels, further training, and just overall a lot, and I mean a LOT of increases throughout the show. To put it lightly, Cell was considered a galactic level threat, but has at least been confirmed as a solar system level since his self destruct blast was stated to be one that would reach past our solar system wiping it out in its entirety. That was prior to SSJ2, SSJ3, or any of his God levels or Ultra Instinct. Goku vs Beerus had them punch and it literally shook and threatened the existence of the entire DB macrocosm, the universe, realm of the gods plus the afterlife. All of which are loosely stated to be roughly the same size, so Goku at SSJ God should be 1.5 universal in power, Blue is a SSJ multiplier stacked onto his God/normal form, 50x so 75x universal, then there’s the Kaio-Ken x20 that he stacks onto his Blue form, so 1500x universal, Jiren blew that off like nothing, and it took Mastered Ultra Instinct to challenge Jiren, at several points they clashed and shook the void they were in which is literal nothingness, plus one clash visually appeared to create a new microcosm that flickered and disappeared. But I’ll let that last one slide. Ultimately, in terms of strength, Goku’s potential is infinite, or at least infinite in the sense that the only other people who can threaten him are ones who could also produce the same feats as him. Durability is roughly equal, however this is only when Goku has his guard up, and can still be penetrated or completely wiped out by foes who would have a higher “infinite strength” than him. (Which Superman does since his infinite is actually full on infinite).
Speed, Goku as a kid snagged one of the Dragon Balls as they scattered after making a wish. This is impressive since it’s stated they zoom away at light speed, and other characters like Frieza have also not pursued the Dragon Balls after scattering, which actually implies that they may be going even faster but Goku took a good guess and already was aiming for where he went to catch the ball. So, at the bare minimum, Goku is likely lightspeed as a child, let’s apply the same logic from the strength explanation and it’s easy to see that his speed is theoretically infinite, not counting his instant transmission; the caveats are the same though, if someone’s “infinite speed” is faster than Goku’s, then his reaction to their speed will not catch up. (And again, Superman’s speed is fully infinite). This would also be verifiably accurate for his attack’s speed since again with his fight with Beerus, shaking the equivalent of 3 universes at the same time requires essentially an infinite amount of speed.
Superman does win, but I did want to clarify that Goku is an absolute BEAST and that you and ScrewAttack both underestimated him greatly. He’s essentially reached a high unbeatable status for anyone who isn’t at infinite stats. And actually, many characters are at this level, including Superman. However, there is a depth to Superman’s infinite abilities, since he is naturally able to access them and usually has a source nearby to continually keep him going. Goku’s is not constantly there, he must be ready and if possible, knowing roughly what’s going to happen. He has a limit to how much/long he can go, and will eventually be drained and cannot do his infinite feats. His only trump cards against Superman would be his instant transmission, which requires a little bit of time and clear focus to pull off, and even catching Superman off guard his defenses are always naturally up: and Mastered Ultra Insinct which would remove most of his weaknesses against Superman, but even then there’s still that pesky energy limit, Goku can only go for so long and so far without having to stop and heal of use a Senzu, Superman can go - forever, assuming he has a bit of sunlight and none of his magical/Kryptonite weaknesses being used on him. Also, as Superman damages Goku slowly, Goku’s output and durability/speed lowers, he gets fatigued. Superman will win by just laying a smack down on Goku, Goku will try everything in vain and fail, Superman will just keep amping up and eventually Goku will get weaker and Superman will deliver the finishing blow.
@@forastero54321 "the super saiyan transformation IS a multiplier" Then explain super saiyan blue. God was 60% Beerus. So if blue is adding super saiyan, which is supposedly a 50 times, on top of that, how is it possible for him to become 50 times stronger and STILL be WAY weaker than Beerus? Answer, it isn't. Super Saiyan made Goku 50 times stronger, ON NAMEK. As he continued to train, Super Saiyan did less and less for him. Currently it's LITERALLY the easy mode love tap as Goku figures out if his opponent is even slightly strong. If these actually multiplied like Kaioken Goku should have just solo'd the entire tournament in 5 seconds with just like a billion times multiplier on his 60% Beerus base form, which is also something I contest as being misinformation by the way.
"As you know, gohan had his potential unlocked by the elder kai which (for the sake of argument) was equal to ssj3; thus having gohan escalating from someone who was the weakest ssj to being someone equal to ssj3 goku. " And if Super Saiyan is JUST a multiplier, why doesn't Gohan use it and fight Buu with a 50 times boost to his super saiyan 3 level power? It's EITHER a power multiplier, or it's a sort of special like adrenaline boost that gives him MORE POWER than he has right now, but not more than he CAN have. Like real world hysterical strength. You can increase the work your muscles are doing to suddenly be able to lift a car a bit, but you'll NEVER be able to just toss a car like Spider-Man. Our bodies simply can't do that, adrenaline or not.
"The reason for that is because his full potential AT THE TIME was unlocked" Which meaaaaaaaaaaaaaans?
"thus giving him access to his latent super saiyan power" EXACTLY. It's a helper step to power that you COULD achieve, but maybe it'd take like a hundred years of training to get to. Just as a hypothetical. Unlock Super Saiyan though, it just GIVES you this limited supply of power that will push you past your current limit. If you move that limit forward though, Super Saiyan doesn't move with you. Maybe it can HELP with certain aspects, like controlling your energy better, Goku and Gohan trained specifically to maintain total calm and zero stamina loss in that form, so that'd fly with me at least until hitting SS2. But in terms of actually getting more power, it's limited. It's not the kaioken, which DOES multiply your power MAYBE because AGAIN. Fucking Super. Beerus is STILL stronger even after a super saiyan blue kaioken times fucking twenty, SERIOUSLY! Come on!
@@WafleEnterprises "However, you are sorely misguided about Goku’s potential" Ah shite here we go again. Alright, i'll give you ONE chance.
"Now, from a narrative perspective, you were right that Goku’s stats are inconsistent because Akira Toriyama didn’t care so much about consistent and rational increases, he just made a scary threat, threw some scary words and numbers in, and then made sure that Goku could win or almost win." No, that's what other shows do. With Goku he literally had issues beating a fat guy after awakening divine power. He won, but the biggest obstacle was, dude was fat. He got hurt, BY A BULLET. It's INCONSISTENT, because he just doesn't give a shit. Super is the biggest problem with this, but it's in Z too.
"However, I’d say that the best way to scale Goku is to go by his early feats and then estimating his increases as he gets older." And you've IMMEDIATELY failed at the first hurdle.
First lesson. DISCOUNT Dragon Ball. OG Dragon Ball was a GAG MANGA and feats and power DON'T carry over. It's even LESS consistent than DBZ, Toriyama was still JUST making jokes and going for laughs, with martial arts mixed in. Ignore it, entirely.
Second Lesson. Scaling. Isn't. Linear. If Goku can move at a thousand miles an hour against Raditz, that doesn't mean he moved at 6000 miles an hour to beat someone 6 times stronger than Raditz. Speed, strength, stamina, power, these are not just straight even. There's a plateau effect here. Just because your power level is higher, doesn't mean you're faster, for example.
Trunk's power level was WAY higher than Cell's was, but Cell was just way too fast to actually hit. Goku explains why, and NOBODY FUCKING CARES ABOUT THIS CRUCIAL PIECE OF INFORMATION! Just because you're stronger, doesn't mean you're faster. You can divert power to speed or power or blowing up planets, but that takes AWAY from your other stats. Up your punching power, sure, but you're not gonna HIT anything ya slowpoke. DBZ mostly ignored this problem by just making the next villain WAY stronger.
Eventually, they just hit a wall. At that point Goku stopped spiking in power and had to elevate in smaller increments. The jump between super saiyan god and super saiyan blue is BASICALLY fucking nothing. He's REFINING his strength, not just shooting it into the stratosphere every training session. Ultra Instinct (WHICH IS NOT A TRANSFORMATION) exemplifies this. He stopped dealing in POWER and instead dealt in efficiency. Ultra Instinct relies on, INSTINCT. Moving without actually thinking about your move, this is a real thing that masters of things like chess or even video games do. Train your brain to just KNOW what it's supposed to do, and it will do it WAY faster than you can think of it. That's why some pro FPS gamers can move at what to you is like INSTANT aim botty speeds. Cause THEY aren't thinking, and YOU are. And thinking, is fucking slow.
Has DEATH BATTLE confirmed that the info was wrong? That’s the first time I’ve heard about that.
I mean, they did eventually do a rematch for them, so...
The result was the same in the rematch, however.
Spoilers for duck please edit with a spoiler tag
Spoilers:
They used the same logic as they did here and I think even used the same math which wasn't right to begin with. Superman isn't limitless, we have no idea how much stronger he gets for a set amount of radiation he absorbs, how much can he absorb per second or even which version they're using cause it does matter. The Superman from the Justice League animated series back in the day could probably lose to the Goku fighting Ginyu but golden age could probably take on ssj2 goku fairly evenly.
I think they nailed the most recent one
4:44 and yet in any fanfiction work it’s still important to use them as a form of measurement to show just how big of a threat they might be facing in the future.
If you want to dig into exact numbers that don't change the outcome at all, then yes look at other creators. If you just care that the outcome is correct, then this vid is fine and not ALL the info is wrong. On a side note, I kinda wanna say that people are Aholes for telling you ANY info about the death battles or trying to influence or bias you about how right or wrong they are before your watching. Yes people, by telling him ahead of time that DB got calculations wrong is an attempt to create bias. Now he is going into it wondering what is the false info instead of just enjoying it.
I doubt they lied about anything, although they may have got stuff wrong... Either way, I think this outcome was most likely...
They did say when talking about it that they were also assuming things that would deliberately make Goku seem more powerful too... Although who knows if they were anywhere near right given how inconsistent physics in the Dragon Ball franchise is anyway? Not that physics for Superman is much better... His story has been retold a few times too, with different amounts of power, if I remember correctly... It's all nonsense.
But I dunno, I mainly just enjoy hearing about the crazy stuff and seeing a cool fight lol.
I think the only result that really bugged me ever was Link vs Cloud, but I won't go into that for risk of spoiling anything... Maybe not even the result, more their reasoning for it at the time... But it's not worth taking too seriously in the end.
So a big reason why it's so much longer is they went on a break afterwards. This originally was going to be the last episode when they first started the show.
Welp so much for that break
The thing so many people get wrong when comparing Goku and Superman, is that there is basically a HUNDRED different versions of Superman , so compiling all the versions into one character is bound to lead to serious innacuracies and cherrypicked information, especially if taken out of context
Some versions are weak af that Goku could easily annihilate even before Battle of Gods and some are BROKEN beyond belief, literally just sneezing so hard they blow away a solar system
And this happens with Death Battle a LOT. It happened here, with Vergil vs Sephiroth , Ben 10 vs Green Lantern and others I'm probably not remembering
Literally their best battle ever was Dante vs Bayonetta. That was the peak of Death Battle honestly
Thank you! Thank you for putting into words! Like you said sometimes Superman is a fucking physical god whereas some iterations could be beaten by SSJ Goku and some could be annihilated by SSG, it seems like ERB went with OG? If I’m not right please feel free to correct me, but SSG Goku could annihilate OG Superman.
I also get the feeling that ERB’s heart wasn’t fully in this, like maybe they felt forced into it… just a feeling
Whenever a character loses, you appreciate them more
This battle may not be accurate anymore and they may have gotten some things wrong, but it's still one of the series' most important episodes. This was the battle where they started to take research more seriously.
a good way to find out which character would win is to figure out which one is easier to kill, which in this case Goku is way easier to kill than superman
Which Superman? I've seen versions of Superman hurt by tank shells and other survive 2 universes colliding. Most of the moments goku's taken serious damage is either by getting caught off guard or by an attack we have no idea how strong is. Yea getting kicked and damaged is fine but how much effort was put into that kick? Was it like a Saitama punch level of effort or did they try with everything they could?
@@Aaroncarter95 let alone other factors never apply Luke the fact in DB child goku moved faster than light and trained people and normal people couldnt see him.
Just looking at kid goku feats and then considering he is like 1billion times stronger than what was faster than eyes can see.
Goku wouldn't and couldn't lose the Seco d fight since he can't be beat by the same person lol
How can u kill ui goku if your unable to even a lay a hand on him smh 🤦♂️
@@saifhussain9701 Superman's speed is far greater than Goku's instinct.
Oh boy I was waiting for this one lmao 😆
330 comments on this video..... you weren't the only one lol
Superman is as strong as he needs to be says the most, Superman is written to basically be invincible and Goku is written to barely win a fight after a everyone else tries so you can see how tough an opponent is. This always the issue in different fictional media in a death battle, you barely find equivalent universes and a fun fight matchup.
Very well put
"The anime character lost, so it has a bigger dislike bar."
-Karl Smallwood, on Death Battle
This battle caused a lot of controversy, but even though I am a bigger fan of Goku I actually accepted these results. Their rematch was great too, and also did a good job explaining *why* I am okay with these results.
Glad they included a "kaio- what?" Joke. They never get old for some reason
"They admitted they lied"
That is not true in the slightest. They have never said they lied about anything. They simply no longer agree with this episode's outcome. Death battle was a very different show back then, being researched by only two guys and they had a time limit to do it. Now they have a full team to do thier stuff.
With all of the episodes before season 3, its important to take basically everything with a grain of salt since things took a massive shift in season 3
I'd like to add that I really like your reactions. You dont let the biases of the general audience disagreeing affect your enjoyment of the episode. While the outcome of death battles are an important part of the show, I think it's unfair to write off an entire episode just because it has a result you disagree with, yknow? Take this episode for example. Wrong or not, you can tell that the team behind it really put thier all into it to try and do both characters justice. And the animation, while rough by modern standards, is still incredibly fun to watch.
So yeah. I've been binging your death battle reactions all day but I think it's about time I actually subscribed~
While at this point in time Superman would have won, they got a lot wrong
Let’s over compensate and give Goku a 1000x multiplayer on top of his ultra instinct. He still doesn’t come close to Pre Crisis Superman. If you put in God Mode Goku you would have to do the same with Supes. The big issue that people can’t figure out is in Dragonball gods can die by relatively weak beings. In DC Gods are timeless and invincible but not to other Gods. I mention this to demonstrate the power creep between theses two universes. Beerus is at least as powerful as Darksied’s Avatar. But pales in comparison to Dimensional Being Darksied.
@@brucechmiel7964 Agreed. Plus, Death Battle is flawed but we just enjoy seeing characters we love fighting each other
@@YungandRekless545 It's really not about Death Battle being flawed, which it is, I saw the Ben Vs Green Lantern, I'm not claiming them to be perfect.
The problem here is, DBZ is TOTAL SHIT at being AT ALL consistent with how they scale their characters.
One second they're zipping across planets in just a second, the next characters take almost half an hour to circle the earth like 3 times and that's considered to be extremely fast, then Saiyans CAN'T breath in space but just for one extended scene they totally can cause it was a good image, then Goku can't just zip across a planet he needs to TELEPORT, in DRAGON BALL he literally CANNOT be harmed by bullets in episode ONE, but ALL OF A SUDDEN post literal god mode he's caught OFF GUARD by a gunshot and does get injured by a mundane bullet........ This series can't fucking decide what it wants to do, and Akira Toriyama is WELL AWARE of this, he just doesn't give a shit. Dude LITERALLY forgot what super saiyan 2 was. Not even joking.
Then you have Superman who can fly into bench press planets, Goku loses INSTANTLY. Goku has NEVER done anything that physically intense. Gods in DBZ are total pansies too, Supreme Kai came in like hot shit and was IMMEDIATELY shown to be WAY fucking weaker than just Super Saiyan Gohan who was the weakest Super Saiyan excluding literal children. And he was the most badass god in their universe, you know until Toriyama decided deities should be KINDA cool, so made the most badass DB characters since Frieza.
Comparing these two is pretty stupid for a number of reasons, but yeah Goku is HUGELY outmatched NO MATTER how you try to rig it in his favor. Even if you say his Kamehameha can blow up an entire universe (People have LITERALLY argued it can blow up MULTIVERSES, because they're idiots) it doesn't matter because if he DOES that, he dies. Superman can take that anyway, so....
@@haku8135 You sir, have made many valid points
@@haku8135 its 50/50. You can always go back and forth
I'm surprised I don't see many comments mention that this was by far the most common match up request from the start of the series which is why they made it an event when they did do it
I don't know where he got the information that screw attack made a mistake or something, because they did this fight twice and it still came up the same result Superman wins.... And I think they did a fine job with the information they took, people are just sour because Goku didn't win....
Honestly they got a lot of the numbers for goku wrong
It still doesn’t really change anything though. It doesn’t matter how many 0s they were off, infinity is still more.
@@supersquare04 ok
Superman still wins
@@SpencerBPD never said he didn't
@@supersquare04 The thing is super man does not just "win"
It depends of what version of superman you use, because from where i see it super Goku can beat about 6o to 70% of supermen on his on, xeno goku can do a bit more but there are just so many fucking versions of superman that they say *not OP enough just make him god*
9:27 and after a certain point he didn't need the cloud he could fly on his own and even instant transmission (teleport)
22:33 'Powerpole' = magic item. Superman is weak to magic
23:32 Super Saiyan 3
technically Superman isn't weak to magic, he's just not invinsible against it.
Problems I had are them not power scaleing him with weaker characters That he had hand to hand and beam fights with so it makes no sense logically that he cant proform the same feats.
The seconed thing is when they said that ssj 4 is only a 10x increse?
This was, and still is, the most polarizing episode of DB, mostly because Dragonball fans kept calling bullshit on their research but in the end, if you think about it, Goku and Superman wouldn't be fighting against each other but together
Well, Goku might want to test himself against Superman, but I assume it'd be friendly.
I call bullshit on the rematch simply because Death Battle mentioned new powers for both characters, yet only showed Goku's. It probably wouldn't have changed the outcome at all but they should've at least showed the new power. Shows how much (or how little) DB cared about it.
if you're truly curious, you could watch SethTheProgrammer's vid on it, hes a power scaler. The vid is called "Goku vs Superman | THE HONEST TRUTH" and its a redo of his original take on the death battle.
Seth is a TERRIBLE power scaler, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Goku. Holy shit, he gets EVERYTHING so absurdly wrong. He's just really bad at it in general, but with Goku in particular he just wanks him harder than Swagkage in a pool of lube with 12 Madaras.
@@haku8135 Agree, he's the literal fanboy of Goku that every Goku fans dream of and it's annoying. His scales are absurdly ridiculous it makes no sense especially coming into Ultra Instinct
@@IamJerf Most people still don't realize Ultra Instinct is NOT A TRANSFORMATION! It's a FIGHTING STYLE. It is literally EXPLAINED to function the same way pro gamers do!
I'm not joking either! It's the same physical function that lets a pro fps gamer shoot someone in a fraction of a second making normal people look like they're taking forever. It's cutting out the time it takes to think, and just move on INSTINCT. But they're like "IT'S A TRANSFORMATION THAT MAKES HIM LIKE A GAJILLION TIMES MORE POWERFULEEEEEEEEEEEER!"
No, it's a marketing strategy to sell more toys.
@@haku8135 exactly. UI is a technique that just shows your true potential. It doesn't have anything to do with power ups or giving you more strength and speed, it's not an amplifier at all
@@IamJerf Its not an amplifier? okay gotta go into dragon ball tard mode cause that just triggered me
It is 100% a transformation/amplifier you are gonna look at me and say its not? jiren a being who had surpassed gods of destruction was shitting on goku going at full power till the very end of the arc, Ultra instinct while being a state of mind and a technique of the gods it literally changes Goku appearance *making it a transformation* And it makes him even more powerful, you think Ui only giving goku the power to react better while keeping his base power would be enough to beat jiren? hell no its a power-up, a transformation. It may be a unique version of UI for mortals or even Saiyans, we know there are different stages of it though, so hell everyone's UI could be slightly different but for goku it is a form he goes into. for angels, they just have it on always but can turn it off if they wanted to.
The most infamous episode of Death Battle...
The most infamous is goku vs superman 2 :p
After reading tons of messages, everbody says that numbers are wrong, they should be more powerful than the calculations says. But would that still chance the end result even if the calculations would be correct? Far as i see, superman would still win regadless if the numbers are right, but i guess its just one fan base vs the other.
They may've botched some math, but their conclusion is still fundamentally correct. DBZ fans are just very VERY salty about it.
"If you're gonna have a first attack then make a statement,"
*Pain flashbacks intensify*
Honestly this battle all depends on which version of superman you use because unlike goku who has a singular story where he is getting continuesly stronger over time, superman pulls from multiple cannons with massively different streaths where there are some supermen that are fodder And barely destroy a city while there are others that are infinite like milkman superman who's author level.
The result is correct. Superman wins, it's just some of the analysis was really iffy and some stuff was just plain calculated incorrectly.
This guy gets it. This coming from a DB fan > a DC comics fan, Superman beats Goku. This video Massively lowballs what Goku is truly capable of, this video not scaling to other characters means it can't show that Ss4 Goku is far beyond a Galaxy buster.
@@groverrover6856 I agree that superman would win and that they downplayed goku apparently someone calculated the force that first form freeza used to destroy planet vegeta and it is so sad and or funny that that was more that ss4 goku
@@themossyslime This video only bothers me because people who know nothing about DB think this video is 100% factual and prove that Goku is only capable of x, y and z. When in reality it gets so much wrong it hurts. They get basic shit like 18 being unable to absorb energy wrong.
@@groverrover6856 true plus they dont pick a specific superman they just take stuff the various versions did and stick them together
@@themossyslime And thats just not fucking fair. There have been dozens of writers over the years with different interpretations of what Superman is capable of as DB was written by 1 guy then taken over by Toei for GT
math and doing it to smaller planets is how we calculated how to destroy our planet.
Calling the iconic SSJ Goku line cringy...
I'm in physical pain.
@@williamholtzclaw3029 Your cringe.
Cringey? That's subjective, but it isn't an accurate translation of the source material. Goku's speech in the first Funimation english dub takes a lot of liberties ("I am the light in the darkness" for example). In the og version Goku essentially says "I am the Super Saiyan," confirming that Vegeta's legend was true and that Goku has fulfilled it. Subs of the og anime and more modern english dubs of the scene (for example, video games and the uncensored cut of DBZ Kai) stick to the script. Now, we all heard the "light in the darkness" version growing up and so it is very nostalgic, and if people enjoy it, power to them. Enjoy whatever version you like.
On the other hand, as much respect as I have towards Linda Young, Frieza's voice in the first dub has aged poorly imo.
@@bluetoon1499 Sure, you can chose not to like it. and true it doesn't fit goku's character BUT. It's still badass, and not at all cringy.
I think people don't understand what cringe means.
@@williamholtzclaw3029 "causing feelings of embarrassment or awkwardness."
Learn how to use words properly. "bro"
@@williamholtzclaw3029 Not really... When every transformation in the show makes characters "Act out of character"
Apparently the math is wrong.
It is, but the results stay the same relatively in who the winner is.
Though it saddens me to say, They did not.
At the end of the day Superman is stronger than Goku. Their calculations are off, but Superman has too many natural strengths over Goku and Goku can’t exploit his weaknesses from both circumstance and just the way he is as a character. So although yes this is controversial, the result is still correct.
Both can destroy planets, but only one can survive without one. Both move faster than the speed of light and one can teleport in an instant, but due to the speed gap being in Superman’s favor, the concentration and the hand up to the forehead is something to take advantage of. (Which Dragon ball Super actually showed so kudos to that)
Goku is a moron and would absolutely spare Superman for a fair fight. And the heat vision being strong and accurate enough to lobotomize Goku at will, Goku simply just doesn’t have the capabilities in his favor. When they say Superman has no limit and Goku can surpass any limit, yeah. That’s still true and still lands on Superman until Goku can straight breath in space. And even if that happens Superman’s strength remains with no limit.
Accept he clearly can given the events of super in that he is in space
@@a.mseymour180 every time there is an artificial atmosphere of some kind. The one inside the GoD ship, the one in the U6vsU7 arena, the null realm, Goku still never leaves the exosphere. (The furthest up in the atmosphere you can go before hitting space) it’s true his God ki allows him to be underwater and in lava like air, but we still don’t know if he can breath in space. (And Whis creates an air pocket of some kind when they fly around too)
Trust me on this one. He still has that limitation. I loved DBS and I’ve seen it multiple times. Not to mention this fight in general is before DBS so the limitation is certain here.
So here's the power scaling communities modern census on the matter, the strongest Super Men (plural) can beat the strongest goku, but the strongest up to date current goku can defeat a large amount of Super Man incarnations, so it really depends on what version of super man is in question, and death battle just kinda does what ever amalgam of versions of characters they feel, so this battle is sort of right sort of wrong for it's time period.
During Season 1 and 2 they did amalgamations, hence why Superman beat Goku. Season 3 and onwards they have a specific ruleset, and have established that they don't know who would win if they were to make a Goku vs Superman 3, as they haven't done the research with the new rules (and the new research team who is far superior).
Well, the idea is that they take the characters at their maximum possible potential, within reason. For example, they could have just used Superman Prime for this and had him blink Goku out of existence instantly, but that wouldn't be any fun, so they instead just used an amalgam of superman's best feats outside of that version of him.
I would say they are *_usually_* at least entertaining, unless they're just not good (LOOKING AT YOU BEN 10 VS GREEN LANTERN)
@@rainestar6781 Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is literally the only battle researched and/or written by Liam that isn't universally applauded. The dude obviously did his research, but his writing was super off and the animation really insulted the viewer. Doesn’t help that people were going in with 10,000% confidence in the character the thousands of hours of research said wouldn’t win, and the communities spread lies about both characters like they were going out of style, like the Ben 10 community claiming that they cheated in favor of Green Lantern and used multiple incarnations of him when he'd been combined with his previous forms in-canon due to ReBirth and Doomsday Clock, and the Green Lantern community claiming that they cheated in favor of Ben 10 by using a universal constant that wasn’t explicitly stated in the show when it should have been obvious to anybody who was watching. The Ink Tank is maybe the worst offender here, I have rarely seen such out-of-context poor research so absolutely lauded just because it was in favor of the preferred character.
Good research, frighteningly awful episode, toxic fandoms on both sides, it all equates to one horrific mess.
@@LittleZbot Not that it invalidates what you said but what was the universal constant you mentioned in ben 10? Also I'm not sure thousands of hours is exactly accurate, but that might just be my ignorance. Is there a given example where they explain how much time goes into research? As a side, I feel Lantern Vs Ben was just flawed from the beginning, ben is just absurdly versatile and has so much too account for that any death battle his hard to call against him because there are so many little things that completely change everything. Not to mention Alien X is hard to scale as we don't get that much time with him in the show, so questions like does the "sotobro effect" apply to him? What are the real limits to his durability and destruction? Etc.
@@theassblaster8104 The size of his universe; many DC fans are stating that it should be much smaller than it is.
The thousands of hours are a rough estimate of my own meant for emphasis more than accuracy. I figure that with six-month research (episodes are working on in batches over six months and research is continuous until Episode release, one battle last year even changed victors two weeks before it came out because of a newfound piece of material) between six people working 8-hour days, even assuming they were working on four battles at once, that's still approximately 360 hours of research at bare minimum. So, yeah, meant for emphasis, not accuracy- sorry about that. But still, that's an insane amount of time.They've stated it's possible for one battle to be assigned thirty researchers, and Liam has stated that every battle he has done, he looks at the entire character's history piece by piece by himself in addition to his team. In citing Green Lantern as a specific example, he claimed and was attested to by the show's director to have read every single released issue of both the Green Lantern comic line and the Justice League comic line. In addition, the director of the show has stated that prior to releasing an episode, they have at least three sessions where they gather the entire crew behind Death Battle and argue back and forth who would win, and starting with Season 5, no episode has been put out if the vote for the victor was not 100% unanimous.
Basically, I'm saying that so much more goes into the research for these episodes than most people, especially debunkers, can begin to imagine. While they can and occasionally do end up being wrong (which they have admitted to, even citing specific episodes), I would trust modern Death Battle to get the results right far more often than any one individual on UA-cam. Especially if the episode had its research done by a team headed by Liam, as it then effectively gets researched twice.
I do agree completely with what you're saying on Ben 10, though. Given what we know, I feel the winner is correct, but there is so much that we don't know where that can change within a few episodes of a new show. I mean, one of the biggest abilities of the character was only introduced IN THE FINAL EPISODE!
I may agree with most results, but not always character choices and explained reasoning. Like, there is no good reason, none, to use Genos in a fight this early. He's getting new upgrades with every next arc now! When they did Wonder Woman vs She-Ra, WW was in the middle of a major story arc that eventually ended with her becoming a God of Truth. Yet they still chose to use her, even though the arc was going even when they started research! Same deal for Venom. He's in a crazy story arc right now and definitely still was during research and release of Venom vs Crona. This arc is suspected to end with a major power-up for Venom. But they still chose now to make the episode.
Like, Death Battle, my man, I love ya...but you got issues.
Even though the death battle got the research wrong in this video even then the fight is still epic still to this day.
Oh absolutely!!!
Yeah the errors in calculations where mostly at the end where they got there calculations in different points in time of there life’s
It's a very hard match to compare given the vast differences between the DB universe and the DC universe. The deciding factor is that Superman is limitless and Goku is not. If none of the comments on this video sway you they made a part two that factors in Supersayain God and Supersayain Blue against a strictly New 52 Superman rather than one who pulls from his entire post-reboot comic run. So if you're still unsure go watch that one.
Goku doesn't have limits either. At least, not permanent ones. That's kind of the point, he never stops improving. Also, he can literally just teleport back from the realm of the dead at will and continue the fight with a body that can only be destroyed by the god of the series. Or he could just go get Broly from Vampa and have him body Superman in his base form. But it really just depends on which universe the fight takes place in, and which writer is in charge. If it's in the DC universe, Supes wins outright. If it's in the Dbz or Dbs universe, Supes wins at first, probably utterly humiliates Vegeta, Goku has some kind of breakthrough, and then Goku barely wins and befriends Supes.
kamehameha-ing the enemies in the sun was a very Goku thing to do in the dbz movies, as you have seen in the first Cooler abridged
they get a lot wrong all the time but the funny thing is, is that their data is more solid than people give them credit for, even when they do mess up
edit: as for the decision in this video specifically. the only real debate i think that matters is whether or not you would consider ki to be magic or a separate energy force
I would say it's a unique energy similar to magic but not exactly. So I say supes should be affected by it to a degree.
I mean, considering that Ki is suppossed to be a sort of Life Force, i would say its more like a natural force and not a magical effect. (Especially since Dragonball itself makes a clear difference between Ki and Magic).
@@TheJeSTeR7530 fair enough I'm not that into dragon ball so I'm kind of out of the loop for more fine details.
@@TheJeSTeR7530 i think it's more of a physical force since the stronger someone is, the stronger the attacks are. that and most people can use Ki and it can be swatted away like it's nothing or be in a beam struggle.
Comic book heroes rarely lose to anime characters in death battle. This is largely because of how differently escalation works in the two mediums. To put it simply comic book characters can fluctuate in power a lot more than their anime counterparts. Goku getting stronger is a consistent and core aspect of his story. Superman on the other hand often needs to be weaker than he actually is for any of his stories to make sense. Superman can perform insane feats of power if the story calls for it one day and get his ass handed to him by Karate Kid or Batman's butler (look it up) the next. Even when superman does win he'll often get batted around a little by characters who have no business standing up to him because the story needs tension. While similar things have happened in the DBZ universe its usually only for gags. In serious fights whoever wins is usually the one with more power.
Death battle tends to prioritize feats over anything else. Which is completely understandable because how else would you compare the strengths of fictional characters. It's only natural that any comic book character to have lasted this long would've racked up some immense feats.
Though even if Goku was doomed from the start the system they used to estimate his power was a little insulting. For one thing they didn't really take into account the growing power of his base form. It's hard to say how strong Goku's base form was at the end of GT but Vegeta's base form at the end of super was almost certainly stronger than his greatest form at the end of Z. More importantly they ignored how physical strength scales to destructive power in the DB universe. Roshi can disintegrate the moon with casual ease before DBZ even begins. That implies that in the Dragon Ball universe the feat of destroying the moon to the point that there is no visible trace of it is actually easier than training at 10 times gravity, let alone 100. This still wouldn't win him the fight but it's a good indicator of how badly they messed up his power evaluation.
there sort of is a superman abridged. it started out as young justice abridge, but became dc abridged. its pretty funny. some of the sao abridged have been involved with it if i remember correctly.
They're great, but their Superman is probably not the best Superman to start with. He works best as a contrast to other versions of Superman.
@@ahlpym lol yea, completely not like superman is supposed to be.
Goku vs Superman 1 is basically
*Correct answer, wrong working shown*
Task failed successfully
yup
The info they had was practically correct, but at the same time not so. With what they did to SS2's stats, it was a typo I believe they admitted to making.
Raditz being FTL however was a dubbing error.
As but hurt as fans are the dude who can labotomize his opponents & cut out brain tumors without them knowing was clearly going to beat the man who hits really hard
The thing I'm most annoyed about, is that absolutely no one thinks to consider the Zenkai boost.
The way it works is that the more damage a saiyan survives and recovers from, the larger an increase to their overall power, with an especially massive increase the more life threatening the injury is.
In this case, Goku got a massive boost after his first fight with Vegeta because he literally broke his EVERYTHING and had to be healed with a bean.
He then received another boost on his way to Namek after pushing his body to hard by blasting himself with ki blasts for training.
And THEN he got his body pushed to near death AGAIN after arriving on Namek and needed to be put in a special healing chamber to recover.
And all of this was BEFORE he got his Super Saiyan transformation.
Except there was no calculable way to understand the Zenkai boosts
Also. Once they reach higher forms, zenkai boosts are drops of water in the ocean compared to the transformation power ups. Negligible at best.
There was a rematch, btw.
Thor can't be Copyrighted, it's a mythological god. Imagine if Zeus was copyrighted. People just do Norse dirty.
This was the Season 1 Finale.
Legit question, what's did they say that's wrong?
Back when I didn't know Abridged Goku's voice
i should also mention that lightspeed attacks were confirmed as early as raditz so there speed calcs are bs
Its still doesnt compare to Superman and other DC characters
true. though, those are the ki attacks, and at least then were the charged/special ones, but should be much faster now
No, Raditz being FTL based off the dub of what piccolo said was just an english dubbing error.
@@rikuradical9670 possible, what was the line really supposed to be though?
Superman: Who are you?
TFS Son Goku: I am a super sandwich!
This video was meant to come out on the last day of the Mayan calendar.
I will say this. Yes, CERTAIN superman can definitely kill goku at max power. But there are many superman that goku can beat. Like movie superman. Theres no definitive answer.
Yea you’re right it just depends on which one you wanna go off of
They forget that base goku in GT is his super sayian 3 form against Buu power Super sayian is 50 multiple
Super sayian 2 is 100 multiple
Super sayian 3 is 300 multiple
Super great ape is 500 multiple
Super sayian 4 is 1600 multiple
Super sayian god is 20,000 multiple
Super Saiyan 3 is a 400 times multiplier, Great Ape is a 10 times multiplier, and Super Saiyan God has no confirmed multiplier
@@HyperAnimationsYT super great ape is actually 500 time. its from GT
The golden ape
I looked in multiple places and alot of them said 20,000 for god so idk
I think i miss clicked for super sayian 3
@@thehulk-kc8jx Oh, okay, then yeah, Super Great Ape is 500 times. Also, a lot of God multipliers are fan made. It's not impossible for them to be right, but they're not 100% accurate. I myself have tried, and could only get a consistency of 1,200x
Am i the only one who enjoys death battle not because of the fights, but as a way to learn about new characters?
I love both
Thats what I'm doing
What they did wrong was upset the DBZ community by saying Superman won.
With a battle like this, obviously the result would be controversial and a lot would yell it to be wrong. But the one actual point of contention, that makes sense beyond the standard "they didn't use this detail", you're expected to get in these matchups: Superman was actually rebooted AGAIN two years before this battle.
DC launched a complete (or...mostly complete) reboot of its entire lineup, called the New 52, basically discarding most of its past to reintroduce each character with an updated Status Quo. Among these reboots were a new direction for Superman, which included massive nerfs. The Death Battle stated, they used his feats from after the first Reboot (1986), and for that their analysis makes sense, but their intent of using the "current" Superman simply didn't work, because that Superman was no longer canon for two years now.
Would the new Superman still win? Maybe, but that would need new calculations. Ben Singer (you saw his name in the title cards, and heard him as "Wiz") admitted to base most of Supermans powers on the Special "Superman vs. the Elite", as this special was unique in giving Superman a situation, where he could let loose - seeing as usually, he held back his power out of fear of hurting others. The problem, of course, was this new Reboot, which made the special non-canon.
Well that, and you can always argue the numbers, seeing as writers fluctuate the powers, and the method they used to get to Gokus numbers was one they invented themselves.
As for their reaction...well, just wait a bit. In a future Death Battle, they will revisit this struggle, and attempt to update this fight.
my biggest issue with this fight is that they made a composite version of superman, and i dont agree with that since there are many iterations of superman each with there own limits. As such you need to specify which superman and while they said newer iteration that doesnt narrow it down at all. Superman is very inconsistent in what he can and cant do. Such as the fact that there are versions of superman getting knocked around by standard lazer fire from guns(not kryptonite). They also didnt even bother to review the guide books. such as saying goku could not use instant transmition in mid fight when he has shown to clearly do it before.
Its just post Crisis Superman in this fight and he "fused" with New 52 Superman in DC Rebirth so its all the same now.
I noticed the playlist you were watching wasn't in order. Here's the playlist from the official Death Battle channel:
m.ua-cam.com/play/PLB833073B659FD65A.html
That playlist is not in order the one duck is watching is in release order
The one deathbattle made is not
@@a.mseymour180 oh.
@@a.mseymour180 but he hasn't reacted to Samus vs Boba Fett, which was the very first, & he doesn't always react to what the "next time on death battle" is, so I don't really believe that.
@@CaptainCFalcon there in order but one of his fans got rid of potentially spoilery death battles
For stuff he might watch some day
@@a.mseymour180 bruh
Look forward to Superman versus Goku 2!!!
I feel like that's far away
Look, Goku won’t win and Superman won’t win…why yo must ask, because the Superman writers either make him overpowered with no limits or someone who struggles on the streets, meanwhile Goku has such a wide range of things while being written by 1 writer, in the end both fan bases won’t win because a fair battle between the two is impossible
24:38
Dragon ball super: "think again"
Deathbattle didn't admit to lying about anything, because they didn't lie about anything.
You should definitely react to Life Beyond II:The Museum of Alien Life (4K) by Melody Sheep, reasons including it being a 5 Month old video with 9.5 MILLION Views, has mindblowing animation and creative Alien designs even though there's one species resembling Xenomorphs but aren't ripoffs, the 4K doesn't mean you need any different computer or device to watch this, you can split this 37:59 long video into two parts as the II is about two types of Alien Life, it's free, you can react as there's no issue with copyright and MS is a big UA-camr with 1.72 Million Subscribers. However just know to keep it indirect, I get nervous when my name is said.
Honestly, a lot of people forget that Superman and Goku are both characters with a TON of different versions and canons, and who wins depends on what material you use.
But with the versions they used in this episode(Post-Crisis Superman and Dragonball Z Goku)? Supes pretty much stomps him into the dirt. Even if Dragonball Super made main canon Goku a lot stronger, Post-Crisis Supes has also gotten a ton of new material that makes him stomp Goku harder.
I just had a weird though.
Do you ever watch other reaction channels or is that something just don't do to preserve future content?
I don't watch any channels because of spoilers and I want to stay as authentic as possible
@@theduckgoesmoo ok thanks for the info.
I was going to say it would be neat to react to someone reacting to something you have already seen, but that might be to Meta.
@@hallofguns8174 Graham Stephan calls that the "infinite monetization loop"
@@theduckgoesmoo I'm afraid to ask what that means.
Anyone going to tell him that's not Bulma that's chi-chi
It one I didn't have a problem with....
Or the the Follow up Round 2
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern on the other hand, while I don't have problem with who won, it was how they showed him winning that was nonsense.
ua-cam.com/video/f-jkS1zu5Cg/v-deo.html
@@a.mseymour180
Yep, I watched this video.
I'm ready for Doomsday's fight. Also check out Young Justice Abridged. Their Superman acts the exact opposite of how the real Superman acts but it's still funny
18:40 yes the dc abridged universe and it is fantastic
I like both comics and DBZ and though I like DBZ more, I can remain objective on this. The numbers don't lie. Superman is so far out of Goku's league that he could have obliterated him in less than a second if he really wanted to. He's just used to fighting weak humans, so he has to hold back a huge amount to keep from turning them into a fine red mist with one flick of a finger.
Goku is basically a mortal that trained their way up from the bottom, whereas Superman's powers have been with him since the beginning.
The only reason anyone would dispute this result is that they are braindead fanboys of DBZ that don't know how numbers work.
The margin between them is basically that between God and a flea. Superman is utter bullshit and the only one that could beat him would be Batman, Saitama, or someone with toon force.
Batman because he has a kryptonite ring and is the goddamned Batman, Saitama because he's a gag character who's entire premise is that he can beat anyone with one punch (including Superman), and toon force just trumps everything always because it's stupid as Hell and totally broken beyond belief.
Essentially, you're pitting a character that has to struggle to succeed and fight and claw his way to the top vs. someone that has to fight not to destroy everything by accident because he can't even contain how powerful he is. It's no contest. If you had any comprehension whatsoever of the numbers they calculated, you would have no doubt at all of the difference between them.
TLDR: I've never seen Goku tank multiple supernovas or push planets around.. Superman on the other hand...
While yes, saiyans do need air, and can't survive in space. They are able to bring some air with them inside of their aura for short term use...i base this on what we see throughout the show. It could be true or false. I just tell this to myself so i do not get driven crazy when this happens.
How do you weigh the earth? Just turn a scale upside down. Duh.
Seriously?! How the hell can you not know anything about Superman?! That's like someone saying they don't know anything about Batman or Spider-Man.
Can u please react to Seth’s how strong is saber vid she belongs to the strongest franchise in anime with their base abilities giving them immeasurable speed. & my power scaling subscriptions r all the proof we need, my other subs also prove it has the best written characters in anime.(which I made a playlist for) Like generic anime channel’s shirou vid, it’s billion$ budget & ufotable even come together to give us peak animation like you’ve never seen.
Sorry youtube, Had to get off chest. Wrong charged. That's why.
Finally he got to it! XD
The thing with Goku vs Superman is that there is no definitive answer. Superman can be anywhere from a guy damaged by bullets to an indestructible god depending on who's writing him. While Goku has multiple versions himself, like Manga, Anime, Movie, Super, GT, Heroes, and even the weird 4D movie version where he fuses with the audience. Scaling for both characters is so wildly inconsistent, that there's not really a real winner. Some versions of Goku win, some don't. Some versions of Superman win, some don't.
I will say that even as a Dragon Ball fan, there's probably more versions of Superman that win than there is for Goku, but I don't know that for sure.
Superman is very overpowered but he is probably the most powerful character all of fiction.
have you guys not seen the superman vs goku debunked video
People have debunked those debunk videos, and sometimes people make debunk videos on matchups that really can't be debunked. I mean I've seen people try to debunk Black Canary vs Sindel and Zuko vs Todoroki for fuck sake.
Skimming through it and it has "Buuhan was able to endanger the universe through a chain reaction with his vice shout by collapsing alternative dimensions so he now has the power to suggest he can match SSJ4 Goku and let alone SSG Goku from BoG"
Yeah, this isn't even worth it. lmao
That is the best ever. watch.