Struggling to practice level design? This is why.
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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In this video I talk about why level design is a weird and tricky discipline to get into these days, especially compared to how it was when I got into it, over 20 years ago (!).
00:00 - Why level design is weird and hard to practice
02:15 - Advising people to make fully playable levels
03:42 - How I got into LD during a golden age of FPS editors
06:16 - Game design was harder for me to show than LD
07:35 - Today, things are the complete opposite way round
09:52 - Unity and Unreal are game engines, not level editors
11:03 - My mixed feelings about stuff posted to #blocktober
13:43 - Show gameplay videos instead of empty screenshots
15:10 - Not a simple problem, but I hope talking about it helps
This video is part of my Talking About Level Design video series, which I've collected into this playlist: • Talking About Level De...
#leveldesign #unreal #unity - Ігри
I feel like you mentioned earlier that old engines are a totally valid path still. I'd recommend Prodeus for new people trying to learn. Great tools that are built into the game.
Yeah, in hindsight I wish I mentioned Prodeus as an example of a recent indie shooter that comes with great level design tools. I know Jason Mojica (lead designer on the game, we were both level designers on Bioshock Infinite), and his passion for level design and the tools that empower designers to do cool stuff / work efficiently really shows in the game in general :)
@@stevelee_gamedev Can levels made in Prodeus be good for a portfolio tho?
@@MachineGunDom94 Yeah, definitely
@@MachineGunDom94 Depending on what jobs you're applying to, sure. I think to show an ability to create good 3d level layouts, enemy and item placement, and obviously an interest in action games, absolutely. In comparison to something like Hammer, there is generally less scope in Prodeus to show more in-depth level / NPC scripting skills, or create much gameplay that isn't straight up action. But if Prodeus level design is relevent to the jobs you're applying to, then go for it! The editor is really slick, and about as good as they get in terms of accessibility and polish, versus complexity and scope of what you can do with it :)
I transitioned in-house to LD by getting the chance to make a mockup level for an upcoming project. And I agree, getting that specific context to build a layout around really helped a ton in showing off my thought processes and design choices.
Youre right. Many people still confuse level design with environment design. Making a nice screenshot is not level design.
It's a huge assumption he's making there actually. I heavily disagree.
I got my first real job as a level design intern in a small indie team this summer. My portfolio contained a few examples of levels that I created but most were indeed static screenshots of levels under different states of completion, mostly showing my process of creation (that I now realise doesn't mean much without actual gameplay footage of the level being played and functioning properly). I did have two levels with video footage of gameplay but my employer told me that they picked me mostly for one of my levels that only had screenshots that they felt really inspired them and fit with their vision. So I don't really know what conclusion I shoud take from all this ^^' Maybe that a bit of everything is good? Or that we should show as much variety in our workflow and end results as possible? I'm not sure but I'd thought I'd share my experience.
And thank you for making this video. I can really relate about the experience that you had in college, it's kind of exactly what I'm going through right now ^^'
Hey Matthieu - interesting, and congrats on the first gig 👍 If they told you that the level you posted screenshots of was inspiring to them then that’s great - there must have been something distinctive and interesting about what you showed in the screenshot, which is what it’s all about (and that I worry a lot of blockout screenshots don’t do on their own). And yeah variety can definitely help - for example they may have said that the level screenshots you mentioned stood out to them as a good fit for what they’re doing, but the fact that you did have gameplay footage on there might have still been an important box that you ticked (showing that you’ve actually implemented and tested things). Regardless, good work :)
Thanks for posting this! I remember creating multiplayer maps with Hammer for Team Fortress Classic while jamming out to Californication album back in the late 90's in my teens. Good times. There are few more rewarding than doing a play test and seeing people enjoy what you created.
I'm looking to pursue the passion for a career change and I really look forward to binging your content over the next few weeks.
Great to hear James, cheers :)
So grateful for your videos about level design. I've been leading a team of 5 for a Unity-based indie game, and what you said about the lack of tooling and game engines =/= level editors could not be more true. Level design has been, by FAR, the most difficult challenge of our project. We're building a 3D platformer game with two characters with different movesets for context. It feels like you just have to build your own tools. Once you've built the tools, you realize that you've barely gotten to practice the actual LD itself :( then to make things more complicated, preexisting "good" level design reference for your game is something that doesn't exist! You only can only look at somewhat adjacent titles and start from there.
Yeah all this stuff is tough, especially early on. Hope it's going ok!
@stevelee_gamedev Thanks for the reply! We've definitely gotten better at LD over the years, but we've had to invest heavily in custom tooling and also get extremely specific with our LD pipeline / workflow.
Pretty interesting video. I got to the same realization as you did somewhere around 2019-2020, and after that I got really interested in classic level design. "There's no way I'll finish a game myself today and the tools that come integrated with UE and Unity are crap" I thought.
Then I started focusing on making levels for Quake with Trenchbroom. I've made 5 levels so far, and even though I'm not trying to start working as a level designer for now, I wonder what else would I need to actually start. When can I say "My portfolio is ok, let's apply for a job"? It's not a concern to me since I already work as a Fullstack Developer, but I'd definitely consider switching careers in a few years.
P.S.: Also another plus of making levels for classic games -> It's way easier to get actual feedback from these oldschool communities (Doom, Quake, Half-Life 1 and 2, etc), who will play every single new release even from new mappers, than it is to upload a game or a small level to itch.io and wait for someone to find your stuff.
Levels built in older games are absolutely legit in showing off your skills for an application! You've got to show your skill in the principles and processes that go into making a playable level and those skills are transferable to different games and even genres.
A list of games and tools you could use in random order:
- Source Engine (Hammer); Mostly fps games like csgo, Team Fortress 2 and Half Life, but also top down shooter Alien Swarm.
- Mindustry; A Factorio-like rts game.
- Prodeus; Fps currently in early access.
- Rollercoaster Tycoon 2; Has a scenario builder out of the box. Yes, I'm serious, this is valid level design experience.
- Tooth and Tail; An interesting more accessible rts.
- Rivals of Aether; 2d platform fighter.
- Battleblock Theater; 2d platformer.
- Duck Game; A local multiplayer shmup.
- Distance; 3d racing game with some flying mechanics.
- Super Pilot; Early access 3d racer akin to f-zero.
- Doom & Quake; Also note 2016's Snapmap feature which provides accessible easy level making.
- Tony Hawk's Underground 1 & 2; 2's level editor was a lot better.
Good luck!
As a gamedev newbie, I worked on my University capstone project 2 years ago. Our team wanted to work with Unreal 4 and we were really early in our project. We did not have our mechanics down and for me, as the level designer, it was so awkward not knowing how to design my layouts simply because I don't have a view of what mechanics will be available to the player. Because the gameplay logic was still being implemented, I could not playtest my level because some mechanics had bugs that took weeks if not months to fix.
I really do agree with what you've been saying, Steve. It's hard for newer, aspiring level designers to make their own levels in Unity/Unreal since coding mechanics takes a lot of time. Learning level editors for existing games (and learning how to script if possible) and creating fully playable levels is the way to go!
Its very nice to see you visibly try to take on this issue with tact. that part of communication will make it easier for everyone to accept the potentially "harsh truth" that level design is in how you play through it.
This hits on a lot of points in my current... predicament.
I'm making a game for myself, mostly because I find gamedev fascinating and it's fun to try making sort of an "interactive sculpture" or something, and the level design aspect really has me sort of blocked. I'm doing it in unity, partly because there is such a wealth of tutorials (for most areas) and partly because I like making assets in blender. And making individual assets is fine, importing them and setting them up for use is just a set of steps really. But then comes the level itself, it's such a crucial part of the game, basically what makes the game *a game* and not an assortment of rules and 3d models, and my attempts as getting into a good or useful mindset in relation to level design have been less than successful. This is the first channel I've found that talks about level design on a more fundamental level, no pun intended, and I'm surprised that it's not talked about more given how essential it is to, well, basically any game. Thanks for making this series!
Two years on, I think this is still a great discussion point, Steve (I'm loving your other videos too btw.)
I thought I would leave my two cents here also, as I'm sure many aspiring developers will pass over this video.
I'm in my thirties and in the game industry also (environment / technical art path) - But got into working on games in similar ways you described here.
HL Hammer editor, Google Sketchup, Oblivions TES editor, Garry's Mod and even in game map builders like Time Splitters 2 and FarCry (or even Tony Hawks Pro Skater!) .
As you mention though, these kinds of editors just aren't as readily available for most games today.
I think however, there are also now so many more resources and tools available, that all disciplines could be more approachable, with the right mindset - getting software, or finding information on how anything was done back in the day was a huge barrier for entry.
I think the trap we should avoid is assuming that the paths we took into the industry, and the opportunities we had will be comparable with those of the following generations. But perhaps there are still some parallels.
I think the likes of PlayStation's 'Dreams' platform looks like an incredibly approachable and versatile platform for todays generation, as it seems like there are also many "game templates" there that can be used in the same way as a level editor - though I have not tried it myself.
Beyond that, I think the push from Epic for UEFN is a huge step in the right direction too. When I think about the kind of dedication that kids put into creations in the likes of Minecraft or Robolox (in terms of general creativity.) - If that passion could be funnelled into an early interest in game development, you could see new developers coming in with a general competency and level of experience that would be incredible for the industry. Being literally able to deploy levels or games multiplatform for free is so powerful.
But when talking about specifically level design, it would be great to see more templates of completed games to start from. Which leads me to my main suggestion, which would be to use game engines like Unity or Unreal, but start from marketplace game templates.
There are some incredibly full featured and well built 'Game Templates' available that essentially serve as empty but mechanically sound games. They could be an incredible starting point for all disciplines, as they are often feature rich, but lacking in all areas. So there is scope for people to create demos showing the areas of game dev that interest them is always there.
An initiative to make more resources like that available for educational purposes would be great though - and for more transparency in the games industry, encouraging developers to give away sample assets as educational breakdowns. This would be a nice way to combat the misinformation around many of these topics also.
I think accessibility is what is most important here - the beauty of some of those in game level editors I mentioned were that they were there for anyone to try. You didn't need a separate PC to do that, it was a lightweight way to show people what it was like to turn their ideas into something their friends could play.
If you can foster passion, people will use that to solve their own problems, and make their own opportunities.
Anyway, Keep up the great work!
I hadn't really thought about the whole "golden age" of level editors but it makes a lot of sense. The mapping, and even modding scene feels like it's diminished significantly since the days of Unreal/Quake/Half-Life.
One cynical theory as to the lack of level/game editors these days would be the advent of live services and microtransactions, encouraging AAA companies to keep their content under lock & key so they can potentially monetise future content that would otherwise have to compete with free mods & maps.
Then again, another theory is that most games are built in unreal/unity in the first place, so in-house editors simply aren't a worthwhile endeavour to build for internal use, much less to support them to a degree that the public can use them.
I've had this video floating around in my recommended for some time.
I finally got around to watching it since I've been struggling myself to finish what projects I've started.
I've released two source engine maps for a game I enjoy playing but they were based off of existing IP as I wanted to force myself to learn the process of recreating the environments.
I actually posted videos of the levels being played on my channel for showing people, which after watching this video I was glad I thought to do so.
I had people scoff at me for not making original levels but I did co-opt the levels I did to play with the gametype I was designing them around.
One such example would be West London from Killing Floor, however I did include a lot of interiors to buildings you couldn't enter in the original game.
This was so I could still give the level my own touch while maintaining the original design creating a fair compromise of the two game's design philosophies.
I had a guy who was hosting a mapping contest catch a glimpse of the level who wanted it for his "apocalyptic" mapping contest since it fit the bill.
Sadly I got 9th place out of 10 because the judges who were scoring the map just did not like that I had copied a level despite it being all my own brush work.
The put the excuse as bad level optimization despite making heavy use of hint/skip and area portaling which they claimed I did not do since I had not known how to make the fading variant of the area portal.
I did try to research how to do so and I am aware of how it works now but I just felt stung after pushing myself to meet a deadline only to be slapped down for reasons that were not stated in the original contest's rules.
I've been working on another more original map very inspired by Serious Sam but the layout is completely my own just taking from the architecture styles and trying to figure out the map flow.
It's definitely a lot harder but I've been enjoying it, it also helps to know a bunch of guys who know hammer back to front to call upon every now and then for help.
I found personally I struggled with asking people for help, but after doing mapping for a long time I realized people are happy to help.
I feel part of it was actually having done work on other areas and leaving the parts I had difficulty with.
When I was asking someone for help they were kind of excited to see what I had done since the last time I asked for some help, which I felt I owed to them to show that their help wouldn't go in vain.
Overall this video was a nice perspective to take in and I appreciate you discussing it.
As an indie dev who's been making games for 8 years. I only found tools (mostly realtime csg for unity) that let me do the level design I've wanted to do properly in the last 2 years. There's so few good tools for unity and indie available engines in general, it's really frustrating because there's people out there having to rely on awkward workflows in tools not specifically designed for level design. So the designers that do make unity games for example can't show off their level design skills as well.
I totally understand where you're coming from on the blocktober thing. Some presence of a gameplay element (even just the players hud) in screenshots can really help and there should always be a screenshot from a place the player would actually view the level from. Still nothing can beat seeing it in motion I guess.
Agreed - sometimes when I don’t see any screenshots from the player’s perspective, *and* there’s no evidence of gameplay, it can be hard to tell if the design of the layout has been given much practical / interactive consideration at all, and it can start to feel more like it’s aspiring to be environment art than level design
(As I mention in the video, I mean with levels that are presumably intended as single player experiences, not competitive shooters for specific games, etc)
Thanks for the comment, Realtime CSG is extremely useful.
Else I found ProGrids.
What next plagins can be taken for a note?
This is very useful for new indie devs, to point out that the tools for your game will be unique. You need to dev tools to dev the game (which includes levels)
Every speed level design video falls under that same problem you described for the Blocktober "levels. The speed level design videos always end up being a practice of level art or environment art (depending on the studio perspective of the role) never a focus of being playable but always a focus on looking pretty. The hardest part about our industry, especially Level Design, Combat/Encounter Design, or generalized technical design positions is that even if you do find yourself using a editor like Fallout 4, Call of Duty Black Ops 3, or as you stated Far Cry 5 ; all of the documentation for these editors are incredibly difficult to find or spread across obscure YT channels.
As someone who went to school and ended up in the industry I can say I attend a good university. It had a Level Design track that actually focused on useful and generic design principles, forcing small and large team projects over months of time, and exposure to a multitude of editors (Skyrim, Half Life 2, CoD, UT, Dying Light..etc) where we actually had to build fully functioning experiences I can say the sad thing is that I got lucky. Unfortunately most of the education system's game development programs tend to be more gimmicks than useful. They bait aspiring students into thinking if they learn some basic code, learn to 3d model random obscure objects, and take game theory courses that its enough to get you on the right track. It usually results in students spending 4 years at a school thinking they will get a job with 0-2 fully created projects that could land them an internship, assuming they had a decent education.
Another large misconception that used to be true years ago that no longer reigns true today is the myth of climbing the QA ladder into game development. This path doesn't really work anymore, at least no where near at the rate that it used to. Now a days, companies are starting to realize the true worth of well trained QA teams and are not looking to hire people who are trying to move to in-engine development. QA is so incredibly essential that companies want to hire those who want to hone their skills and help the company make more and more polished games with the years of qa experience. I've seen people get into QA thinking its a way in only to realize that QA is a very specialized department and end up leaving because they believed it was a viable path due to that professor telling them "we all started in qa".
Loved the video
May I ask which school you went to, seeing that you think you got lucky to find it? Could use a tip ;)
@@lilyfel2118 I attended the grad school program known as Guildhall at Southern Methodist University. Although I had the great benefit of being on a fast track to getting the skills to get into the industry the cost of graduate loans took me from 20k (accumulated from my undergraduate degree) to 150k after Guildhall (2 year program).
Many of the people (around 95%) that made it through the Guildhall program ended up in the industry within a year of graduation so it makes it really appealing but in reality everything taught at the program could be learned out of school. The main things you gain by attending a school like that is have the ability to work on teams of varying sizes (4, 50, 17). You are given a time frame to produce the games and are taught how the industry works by having sprints (cycles), milestones like vertical slice, alpha...etc. You learn to work on teams with specified disciplines and responsibilities. It's a great program to get a serious understanding of what it takes to get into the industry WHILE also having discipline specific classes and assignments to help build up your individual portfolio. It allows you to stand out as an individual and not just have team projects when applying to studios. Additionally due to the school having a great and successful industry placement rate, it also comes with a great network of industry professionals that know if you made it through the same program, you'll like be a strong candidate. Many of us end up at large studios such as Naughty Dog, Blizzard, Respawn, Treyarch/Infinity Ward/Sledgehammer, Gearbox Software, Bungie, just to name a few.
But again, all these type of skills can be obtained outside of school, it all about learning what you want to do in the industry, becoming a really attractive candidate and also showing that you know how to work on a team. The time it might take to do so could be as long as being school but at that point it becomes more focused on passion and self discipline which is why school becomes so appealing cause it takes the self out the equation and all you need to have is discipline
@@CrypticVirtues Thank you.
Having recently finished my bachelor's degree in Game Design, I can confirm that it is really difficult to find a level designer position, especially as a junior, and I am near Montreal ... A big center for the gaming industry. 😞
I find that the profession of level designer is really underestimated by the studios.
Btw i really like your video, keep up the good work!
Cheers Bill, glad you like the video. Let me know if you have any questions re: applying for LD jobs, etc 👍
I just discovered your channel and seriously love your content about level design. Bit of a long read here, but I have to share.
I have been trying to get into game design pretty much my whole life. I'm 30 now, working a dead end job in retail and barely have time to work on game design, but I really relate to your comments about Unreal and Unity not really working for level design as a whole. I was trying to make a FPS game a couple years ago (you can see vids of it on my channel actually) and it took me an ABSURD amount of time just to piece together the level shown in those videos, we're talking weeks. In retrospect it has a lot of terrifyingly bad design flaws on my part, but that's ok, I learn from those mistakes.
I pretty much gave up on that project for a few big reasons: One being that I just don't have the financial stability to have the time to learn what I need to learn and actually work on projects, two being that trying to design an optimized level in UE4 was proving to be impossible without some forbidden knowledge that nobody online wants to share, and three being that despite how much I've learned about coding and blueprints, I am not good at coding, and probably never will be, so I'm unable to get the core movement/mechanics needed with which would drive my level design.
Any suggestions on what I should do? I want to make games, I want to design levels, but I have no idea what tools to use.
Hey - my go to answer here is that I recommend using level editors for existing games instead of Unity and Unreal, because then you have everything in the game at your disposal (not just assets and mechanics, but also tools). Unfortunately the list of games with proper editors available isn't huge, but it helps that you're into FPS games!
Right now on our discord server, we're finishing up our 3rd level design jam, which is focused on people making levels for Source Engine games (HL2, Portal, Left 4 Dead, TF2, etc), using its level editor, Hammer. This is my go-to recommendation for FPS level design. Let me know if this helps?
@@stevelee_gamedev As you saw with my other comment, I finally just got Hammer(++) and started learning. I can't believe that Unreal and Unity haven't caught up with something like Hammer yet. I understand that Static Meshes are the thing nowadays, but you'd think BSP editing could still be viable to then convert into SM if needed, but UE4s BSP editing is atrocious.
I really haven't felt this accomplished with making something in awhile, I had no idea level design could feel so rewarding. 😁
I'm not technically hired but I joined a group of people with the aim to create a game dev studio. So I can make proper level design because other people are willing to do the assets and tools so I can do playable levels.
Before joining them I had the chance of making a small game in computer science studies where I've done the LD, then I joined a game dev school to further learn Game & Level Design. From that I made a game jam with students from the school and we made another game (3 months of work) for the end of the school and I was fully in charge of the Level Design with some other friends.
In short, the best way for me to practice LD was by being with group of people to create small to increasingly bigger games.
And it's kind of bad in a way as it's not easy at all to find people to work with to make a game. I got lucky to have the opportunity to make those games with cool and dedicated people.
So don't let go opportunities to make group projects because there are not many if at all and it's a comfortable way to practice proper LD
When I got my first AAA LD job, I submitted a umap file that contained my blockout along with basically a level design document along with top down layouts. Although not a fully playable level since I built it in UE4, I made up the difference by talking about my design intent and why I made certain decisions along the way. Calling out various gameplay beats I wanted to hit during the level (narrative event, gameplay event etc.) I think really helped me land that first gig. Even though it wasn't playable from start to finish, you could explore the space in real time and have the doc to walk you through what the experience could be like. Which in turn did showcase a soft skill that is overlooked a lot, concise and informative documentation.
Of course, having it fully playable would be ideal but given the time constraints with LD tests (usually a week) and the lack of toolsets in UE4 which you talked about. I wasn't familiar enough with Source at the time so I chose UE4.
Great video - So refreshing to hear your thoughts on Blocktober. I echo your feelings.
There are some amazing looking blockouts that focus purely on gameplay and how the player navigates the level, really well made and presented. But it seems the majority of the posts now are focused more towards 'showing off' good looking blockouts.
It's borderline low poly art, not level design. And unfortunately I think people see these and think level design is all about making good looking spaces, rather than concentrating on the player and mechanics.
Yeah, agreed - glad you liked the video. I hope that it encourages people to do what they can to focus on the interactive side of things, and that no one takes it the wrong way, etc
I recently started a job as a Junior Level Designer and I think some of the issues you brought up in this video played a role. While at college studying game design, I primarily worked on solo and team projects where I could emphasize gameplay design, combat design, encounter designer, and system design (although I also got significant experience with user research and production). I like to think I am, for a junior-level candidate, a very good designer overall, but my hard skills as a Level Designer (layouts and modeling in particular) were worse than many of my peers in school who focused on Level Design and worse than many of the candidates. Despite being a worse Level Designer, I got my job by having good soft skills, technical skills, and general design skills. If the other candidates who have better Level Design skills had better tools, it would've been easier to judge both myself and them on their hard skills and I may not have gotten my current job. Simply put, with lackluster tools to show hard level design skills, companies have to weigh other skills (general design knowledge, soft skills, technical skills, company fit, etc) more.
I'm in the same boat as you, though I have a year and a half left of my course. I'm planning on making side projects on my own where I can just focus on the level design so that I can improve those skills + make my portfolio more focused.
I still remember booting up the Unreal editor and using the BSP tool just to make some levels but it was so unsatisfying because I couldn't walk around them unless I messed with some blueprints. Then I switched to Doom and Black Mesa and I am really happy with the editors available despite the limitations of the engines the games run on.
Just wanted to say, this video was genuinely very helpful for me. I’ve only started really looking into level design maybe a year ago, and it feels like a very difficult medium to research nowadays. It’s seems like most docs I find are either too generic to get something substantial out of, too specific to be useful for me, or just focused on a different aspect entirely (I’ve seen lots of tutorials that are more about level decoration than design).
Anyways, my point is that just hearing that it is indeed harder to get into level design nowadays, especially from a vet like you, is a big relief. Takes off the pressure that there might just be some simple thing I’ve been overlooking.
So thank you, so much!! I look forward to exploring the rest of your channel to see what kind of lessons you have to give!!!
Great to hear it's genuinely helpful - thanks, and enjoy the other videos :)
I totally agree with you. I'm also a level designer and what people showcase these days is not level design work in most of the cases; is environment design, which is nice to see, but it doesn't have any interesting gameplay, which is precisely the goal of the level designer. The level designer doesn't create a nice environment, it uses the existing gameplay mechanics to create fun situations to test the player's skill.
I wouldn’t go as far as saying that level design is always about testing the player’s skill, but otherwise I agree 100% 👍
I also started my gamedev journey with HL level editor. I have applyed to some studios with my hl2 levels screenshots in portfolio. But my first job in industry was programming in Unity. Our team couldn't find any level designer so I tryed to make some testing level. And thats how i stated to work as a level designer. And now since few years I'm full indie developer. Level design practice gives me main knowlage about what else I need to learn.
Really enjoyed listening to your path in game dev. I feel like I’m the sliding doors version of you.. I’m 38 myself, and remember Teeside uni being the only one at the time that offered a game design course, which I eventually decided was just too far to migrate from down South to! Never ended up getting into the industry full time but couldn’t give up on the dream, and nowadays do contract LD work - so not all bad! 😅
Oh man, all your videos are fantastic. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I am currently trying to learn fast multiplayer level design…and it is really difficult, but I must to get there, I have no choice.
For me level design it is something in between narrative and environmental art. Correct me if I am wrong. Level design it is only about player experience, not experience of creator.
Thank you for sharing your genuine and honest experience on this topic. I really want to work in game development, but it can be a little tricky figuring out exactly what I should be working on to help me work towards my particular interests.
You're welcome - hope it was useful!
Great video! I totally agree the that the "golden age" of modding is gone where it was perhaps a bit easier to build and showcase work to get the level designer job. But now depends on the studio level designer has several meanings. One place level designer means "mission scripting only" another place it means "you build the white box". A third place "you do everything" lolz Not as unified as a role compared to say, Environment Art, Gameplay Programmer, Animator or Producer
Edit - 100% agree on showing playable block outs. Static screens sell well if you want to show case your art skills or composition within the level design. But if you can walk a space with proper player scale that's big win for new level designers to do in the portfolios.
I resonate with the skills you acquired as a kid, I specifically remember level editors in a lot of games, even flash games that were designed around making a platformer i was drawn to. I made many maps in Red Alert 2, there was a level editor for Command and Conquer renegade, a level editor for Warcraft 3 that I really spent a lot of time on trying to make a playable RPG. Even now Ive made good Mario Maker levels in the past and am working on making a platformer in game maker studio 2. It seems like a massive wall to go over these days, especially as a hobbyist but thank you for the insights!
Yeah I used to enjoy making Red Alert and Warcraft 3 maps :) Glad you like the vid(s)!
Perhaps another question that's more practical for people reading here, and wanting to become level designers:
Q: What existing level editors & games do you think would be best to choose, for someone who really wants to dig in, learn and show off Level Design skills? Do you have a sort of priority order of what you would guess to be the best ones to use?
I would perhaps guess:
- Half Life 2 (Because the editor is maybe the most modern and versatile, and more like other modern game content?)
- Prodeus (A live modding community around a game that was built specifically around having an editor included)
- Half Life: Alyx (I've not seen this in action. But perhaps the game itself is a bit too niche, being VR. Although you could show off a portfolio with a video and commentary about it).
- Quake (One of the most accessible, due to the game's simplicity, and Trenchbroom being quite approachable - I think a good place to start with your first custom map perhaps?)
- Dusk (I've not seen the editor in action. But I guess this has a live modding community, around an actually modern game)
- Far Cry 5 (Perhaps more like a modern level design pipeline in some ways, even if it is streamlined for end users?)
- Thief 1 & 2 (These editors are pretty archaic! Perhaps not a good recommendation for anyone outside of extreme Thief fans!)
- Doom 2016 (Not sure about this one. Maybe seems a bit too simplified?)
DIshonored should totally ship some modding tools. How cool would that be? :D
Dishonored level design tools could be pretty amazing... but a lot of work for a relatively niche audience. We can dream.
It's definitely a pity that proper level editors tend to be for older games - but a significant upside of older games is that they're simpler to make finished levels for, in a way that makes it much more viable for a solo level designer. So I hope people can still find the tools for older games useful (when they're relevent to the kind of games they generally want to work on).
Thank you for making this, it’s so great to hear someone say it aloud.
Thank you for the video! It is important thing for me, and i complete thoughts about how made smth great for portfolio. I think that great practice is a creating levels for crpg games, because they have very much interactive activities
You're welcome - great to hear it helps :)
Steve, Thank you so much for saying this.. It brakes my brain trying to figure out what you have addressed here.. I am so glad and it's such a relief to hear this from someone else.
Cheers Sanket - good to hear it was useful / a relief!
Hammer for CS:GO offers a lot. Level editor in Far Cry 5 is pretty good for beginers. Any game with established gameplay and an editor is a good starting pick. :)
I agree with you 100% that it's so hard to get into level designing roles these days, studios want people with AAA experiences with shipped games that they can play the levels you made, but there just isn't any good level editor tools out there for making portfolios for people to just get their foot in the door. I remember doing my first level design with pen and paper back when I was grade 4. It was when Super Mario Bros and side-scrolling arcade games was a thing. I love drawing levels but there was no Mario Maker back then. Growing up as a CRPG fan, FPS simply gave me a headache and makes me nauseated so I completely missed out the golden age of the Doom level editor. Neverwinter Night editor was the one that really drove me into planning and designing an actual game level. I also love to use RPG Maker to do JRPG game levels even though I don't think anyone would use those as show pieces in their portfolio, especially not towards the AAA studios as it looks too "amateur".
Yep, I really relate to this, trying to get into the MMORPG industry as an encounter/level/quest designer, but I really have no clue how to even practice this stuff, I do really enjoy your videos/discussions!
Good to hesr it resonates - hope you find a way to do what you wanna do!
My advice would be that your portfolio pieces don’t necessarily have to be in the mmorpg genre, so long as they show relevant skills, like gameplay ideas and scripting. They’re not super modern, but maybe the Creation Kit tools for Skyrim and Fallout could be close enough to show your interest and skills in that kind of quest design?
Thanks so much for this video! I'm about to graduate next semester and chose to specialize as a level designer. This really helped me think about what, and how, to think regarding building a portfolio.
Cool, nice to hear, and good luck 👍
Another great video! I started around last year making blockouts in Unreal, and blender( I still did for blocktober), but has since been trying to do a level in Hammer Editor for Half Life 2. My experience was, that I think much better about the level I'm making using an editor since I also have to think about scripting, and pacing. I think one argument for using Unreal or Unity is most job descriptions require the applicant to be able to use these engines, so it's like hitting two birds with one stone. The applicant gets to show off their level, and at the same time shows knowledge of the engine.
Yeah familiarity with a one of the two big engines definitely doesn’t hurt :) But it’s great to hear that you’re using Hammer to get familiar / be able to show scripting experience 👍 (and glad you like the video!)
This is such a helpful channel Steve, thank you for putting out this content
Cheers Daniel, good to hear 👍
Im really glad to have found your channel just now! Great video and i have a few qued up :)
I just started a new map on the Source 2 engine for CS2 so i find your talk very motivating!
Thanks for the tips!
Great to hear, you're welcome :)
All great points. As a fellow industry professional, I prefer to see levels in older games for the reasons you mention as well as the clarity and focus that the lower graphical capabilities bring.
I still tend to make levels for old games from time to time when I want to explore an idea and it doesn't make sense to apply that idea to what I'm working on at my job.
Man, I keep hearing stories like yours and kicking myself that I never got into game making same way you did.
...ignoring the fact that I didn't have internet until like 2010s, didn't know anyone who made games or mods until like 2016, and in general didn't get the same opportunities. How cool would it be to have an option of a game dev college around here, huh.
And now I know what I need to do but I have a dayjob and no energy or time to really focus on it.
Sorry to hear it - I definitely have things that I kick myself about when I look back, and I know how it goes. Gotta keep trying to look forward and see what you can do. Let me know if there's anything I can help with.
Steve, thank you very much for such an informative video. It's nice to see an adult professional talking about the essence of things.
The thing is, as an architect, I face a similar misunderstanding. The wide range of tools available (but very complex, nonetheless) creates the false notion that architecture, for example, is renderings.
Young architects often face this problem. They simply can't recreate architecture in their portfolio, because architecture is not just a 3D form or rendering. It is a combination of economic, cultural, aesthetic, and even rhetorical factors.
Nevertheless, I am not here by chance. I've been in private practice as an architect for over 10 years, but I've been thinking about moving into the game industry. Not because I'm not good at architecture, on the contrary - I'm really good. I have a great team and a lot of interesting projects. But I just realized that the possibilities of the virtual space appeal to me much more. I'd appreciate it if you'd give me your email so I can ask you some questions.
Hey Aleksandr - I’d prefer to chat over Discord than email - if you click here to join the server, I’d be happy to take a few questions if you DM me: discord.gg/geFkdZW5vp
I just got into game design, been studying Unreal and doing blockouts. I honestly thought I was just being a no-good-noob that's just a baby in the industry. This is how I've been feeling about blockouts so it's good to know I'm not just some noob and a world of titans. I'm seeing what you're seeing as far as level design goes. Thanks for the vid. Glad I saw this. I won't beat myself up as much now 😅The way I describe it is like building a skyscraper without the rebar. I feel like i'm missing something essential and just trying to squish a masterpiece and get it to work without its rebar.
Glad to hear I've helped convince you not to beat yourself up :)
I was making my first levels on UE for Unreal Tournament 4 and on Creation Kit for Skyrim.
It was a great experience!
It is also gave me an understanding about base knowledge of instrumental for level design.
And I completed the courses, were we was making our prototype based on UE4. So it can be the way for Level designers.
For my portfolio I have made a videos and gifs for my website, I think everyone NEEDS to do this.
Thank you so much.
For my Game/Level Design degree, I showed my levels done on LittleBigPlanet because it was playbale stuff completely custom. Several games propose level editors very interesting et relevant to show aspirant's potential.
Seems like Valve is still at the epicenter of level designers these days. All their games-- including Half-Life 2, CS:GO, TF2, Portal 2 and recently Half-Life: Alyx have the same SDK that Valve themselves use to make the games. So level designers have a big avenue of games to design for: multiplayer shooter, singleplayer shooter, VR and puzzle games
I do see an interesting future for level designers, especially with the new Source 2 mapping tools. Of course creating levels for Half-Life:Alyx carries with it some extra prerequisites like having to design for VR, and the fact that playtesting maps require a lot more effort than with HL2. But hopefully with time more diverse types of games will be made with Source 2 and hopefully enabling new level designers to get into the scene
I agree with Valve being the front runner of availability when it comes to LD tools. In the future I think those who have access to Source 2 (when the full SDK is released), some groundbreaking levels will be released.
Many players out there hate Valve for their decisions (like canceling HL3, too much focus on monetization compared to develop and ...etc) but we, level designers, would deeply appreciate their decisions because of that point you said, Oliver.
I think their main devs (not their monetization guys) are people like us and feel this horrible gap, so they always keep pressure on things like «complete level editor» in each game to not being canceled by heads!
I can’t wait until Valve releases some non VR shooter game, so I can start mapping using Source 2
This is one of the most grounded and sensible video on the topic I've seen. Great job! 👍
Great to hear, cheers :)
Great advice, thank you!
You're so right, Steve. I grew up making maps for Quake, Quake 2 and Thief 2. I loved doing that! But I couldn't figure out how to make a whole new original game back then.
Now I'm making my own games in Unity, having had to learn to code to a fairly high level, and all the other skills in between.
I also teach Game Design, and find it very difficult to know where to point students to practice and show Level Design skills! It's exactly as you say in the video.
I find that I still point students towards Quake (using TrenchBroom) to practice Level Design, because it's a pretty good game for putting together simple levels, and all the basic skills are there (layout, texturing, item placement, monsters, triggers, simple scripting concepts). But Quake is now 25 years old!
I know that most games stopped shipping editors (even Carmack) around Doom 3 era, because content creation just got too complex, with high-to-low bake processes, multiple strange format texture maps on items, more complex modeling techniques and lighting, etc. I think it's harder to make an all-in-one level editor these days. (Although Prodeus does indeed show how it can be done!)
I personally find that Unity (even with the various plugins you can get) doesn't feel very good as a level editor. I've tried RealtimeCSG, and that is kind of cool, and getting towards what I want. But I still find it a bit finicky, and not as intuitive or reliable as Trenchbroom for Quake.
I'd really like to make a game that ships with a cool Level Editor one day. It's such a great way to let users really get creative in the world of your game, and add their own spin on things. I love that games like Thief and Quake still live on today, with fresh new content, new ideas for levels and stories. Amazing!
Watching this video made me nostalgic for the hours spent in the HL2 modding tools and editor! I went down a software development path as I never really knew how to get into the games space back then (a little older than you) but often built little mods, or levels in several games over the years. As someone who picked up unity some years back as a hobbyist I struck me how much LD's and even more specialised environmental designers must go through to showcase their work, unable to adopt a similar [whole] game and design an environment or story for someone to experience. Even modding indie games now require unity (to utilise their now defunct asset packs for runtime injection of assets) and coding knowledge to script events (thinking of the Satellite Reign modding options as an example)
Humorously the last thing I built was a small environment using Dishonoured 2 textures and some modular "blocks" I had built in blender a few years ago and wondered if this could even be something visible in a portfolio given the use of copyrighted material.
It's a tough subject and topic to cover and feel you did it well without gatekeeping as you feared, bringing up some important topics and agree that a picture doesn't tell a whole story. If ever I did make an indie game I have often considered building the dev tools in unity then building the game using the editors in runtime similar to the hammer editor but see how much work that can add to encapsulate so much of the code/system out into the game itself and wonder how many devs would do that.
Your main point of level design being difficult to show as a skill when other disciplines are much easier to showcase is a similar discussion I’ve had with my partner recently. It was easier to show completed screenplays of mine than the WIP level I’m currently working on.
As someone working towards building a playable LD portfolio, I feel it’s difficult to give her an idea of what I’m making (especially when I’ve been glued to my monitor for five hours).
Steve, I agree with your observation and that’s why I’ve stuck with Hammer Editor and eventually Source 2 via Half-Life: Alyx. Mechanics, assets, characters-why not use it? Especially if interested in making FPS/single-player games.
I do hope studios/devs see this as an issue for aspiring LDs and will be willing to provide mechanics/assets to the public. But for now I do believe the learning visual blueprints will be a main skills LDs will continue to learn in order to provide an entertaining, playable level.
Yeah, showing scripting skills will always been useful / relevant to level design for single player games. And cool to hear that you’re getting into Source 2 / Half Life Alyx :)
Hey Steve, long time! Great channel, feel like you sharing goldmine of knowledge with newer game devs. Hope this takes off!
Cheers Shamil (and long time indeed)! Early days yet, we'll see how it goes :)
At my university, we made a level with Post-it notes on a whiteboard. Then one of us in the group had the job to transform the level into something playable in Mario Maker.
Thank you very much for such an interesting video, as a student myself I find your opinions very handy. Will keep up the work on scripting levels and making playable environments. Keep it up! 😎👍
Hey, great to hear Barbara - both about the scripting and playable levels, and that the video is useful :)
Many "levels" I've seen in videos, although appealing aesthetically, they really don't look like a playable level. More like level art most of the time. To really capture a feeling it reaaaaaaaaaallly helps to have a playable game and to constantly jump in and test.
Yep 👍
Hi, I just came across this video and I find it really insightful, and I agree on what you say about the showcases of levels, or environments made in an engine that shows no gameplay, but in a way is level design? Blocktober could be bigger for level designers, by showing paper design to blockout and test run in short made videos, like you say at least that way you see the game play through the level design and not just environmental art. I left University with a Masters in Games Design back in 2017, and it wasn't until last year I finally got a job in a studio, working in QA. The studio makes mobile games, and doesn't have level designers, instead they have designers doing all areas with artists and programmers. Lucky enough, I am not working on a game as a designer (whilst still in QA) and talking to the veteran staff, they all agree that they need level designers specific.
Thanks for this, it means a lot to hear it from a pro in the industry, even if it's something I've felt for a few years and have seen echoed in the community elsewhere. Getting a foot in the door as an aspiring LD really does feel like a (weirdly amorphous) brick wall at the moment. But like you've said, Half Life 2 and Hammer at least still seem like viable tools to practice and create a playable portfolio with in the FPS space, so I think I'll be focusing on them for my bigger projects in the near future.
Hey Nick, cheers, and good to hear the video seems useful in some way. Good luck with the HL2 portfolio projects 👍
love your talks!!
Great to hear, cheers!
Farcry Arcade taught me what good level design is. Thousands of player created levels each attempting something different and unique. I took a shot at it and made several levels in the editor.
I think level design just takes lots of playing games. That experience translates to level design.
I started learning Level design developing a map for TF2 in Hammer. From now on I have a week experience and very scared to look for some job, on the other hand I comprehend that there is nothing more usefull in level design than practice.
Hi Steve! Really love all the work you put in this channel, it's really inspiring and incredibly useful :D
I think just like you, I just finish a master's degree in game design and when it comes to creating my first level for my portfolio I'm really struggling with it. I don't want to do just a blockout in Unreal cause I end up with boring and non-gameplay level, but if I have to think in mechanics for the game and this kind of stuff it makes me really consider about just making a small indie game ^^'.
I've done some research looking for level editors for my favourite games (like Zelda: Ocarina of time or Ratchet and Clank games) but, as expected, I haven't found any official level editor for those games, just fanmade level editors made by the modding community so I'm scared of using this unofficial level editors in my portfolio, is there any advice you have on this?
Again, love your channel, thanks for everything :D (and sorry for my english, non native speaker here ^^').
Hey man, love your channel. I was a game designer for 1 year and I didn’t like it that much. Now trying to focus on level design, i just wish you would have been there when I was in Uni. You would have helped me a lot. Please keep going with your videos, we don’t get enough content for level designers online. Btw one question you could maybe answer:
What is the difference between level designer, world designer, quest designer, and mission designer?
Thanks a lot!
Hey Dominic, great to hear that my videos are helpful 👍
Re: the difference between all those kinds of designers - I think most of the time they're different titles that come into play across different genres and kinds of games. One significant distinction tends to be whether the levels / missions / quests in the game are tied to unique level layouts or not.
For example in Dishonored, the term "level designer" is used / feels appropriate because the game is explicitly made from a linear series of "levels" - chunks of the game that are totally separate, uniquely designed (in terms of both layout and content), and played in a particular sequence. In these games, level designers design, or at least have a hand in, basically every aspect of level design (but not environment art).
This is in contrast to the traditional open world model (GTA, Assassin's Creed, etc), where a lot of the open world itself is designed by different people (often called world designers) to those who script the gameplay / quests / missions that take place inside that world, who are typically referred to as level / quest / mission designers. Quest and mission design basically sounds like the same thing to me, except "quest" is like the RPG / fantasy version of a "mission" :)
Hope this helps!
thanks for the video! I'm very glad I grew up with Warcraft 3 and Trackmania, both of which had excellent map editors.
Glad you liked it. And yeah I remember tinkering with the Warcraft 3 editor too :)
I totally agree with everything you say in this video, I really struggle with creating a level design portfolio. It's easy enough if you design levels for first person shooters or third person action adventure games because unreal and unity have templates you can use (although you may still need to learn some coding - I really recommend Unity's Visual Scripting, I learned it fairly quickly while I couldn't learn C# if my life depended on it), but designing levels for a game like XCOM or an RTS is next to impossible unless you cooperate with programmers.
A Dutch university uses the new (now pretty old) unreal tournament (ut4) for the level design segment of their game design course. The game is free, but it is mostly there - there are many gametypes to pick from. It is UE4 and you can put whatever you want in it, but it also contains all the game bits and pieces to make something.
12:50 This is the very soul of games; I am a professional QA Lead working for a major AAA publishing company and man, I can definitely attest that there are some studios that nail the concept and some others that do unfortunately fall in the trap of only showing geometry as full fledged maps literally right before Beta; coming Beta, all the terrain is barren, graphical issues, collision holes, and even missing floors plague the entire environment. Least to say those projects tend to get cancelled right after they go through a stakeholders review.
Yeah, this was a tricky one starting out as a LD. I didn't grow up with any level editors and even FPS in general, which seemed to be a disadvantage right from the start. What I (and many other LD's I see on Twitter) decided to do is make blockout levels for existing games in Unreal or Unity. This still requires the work to implement certain mechanics like climbing, crouching etc. and is in the end still not using the tools of the original developers, but it actually helps with the analysis part of breaking down what a game is really about. I made a level for Dark Souls 3 for example with no enemies and just basic blockout and functionality, which stood out when applying for my current (first) job working on a souls-like action game because it showed design sensibility and prior experience for the kind of level design they wanted.
There are more and more asset sets in the respective asset stores that provide you with premade movement mechanics, which is helpful for the future of level designers, but in my mind I would love to have something like an "Uncharted level kit" or "Titanfall level kit" that include character controllers with recreations of the respective games and mechanics like easily placeable climbable ledge paths for Uncharted or wall running for Titanfall, all to the metrics of the original game. Would love to make something like that myself in the future if nobody else will!
Yeah, I'm actually surprised that packages of higher quality movement mechanics etc aren't more common on the Unity on Unreal stores (although I'm sure that there's more going on here that I'm aware of) - and yeah I've often stroked my chin over the idea of trying to find people to work with to do it myself ;)
I am not sure how familiar you are with Halo's forge tool, but imo it is one of the best tools out there for learning level design. The barrier to entry, and the ability to quickly play test and iterate after test seesions, is unparalleled compared to many other tools. On top of that, Halo's base gameplay mechanics allow for longer engagement between players and therefore players are spending more TIME on maps during engagements and thus the geometry of the level itself plays a deeper role in player interaction. When you pair this with the social features of xbl, and the ability for players and designers to interact, you get one of the most powerful level design teaching tools out there.
I have been a member of the forge community for over a decade, and I'm regarded as one of the best level designers within our community. I've seen, and helped many other forges on there journey to getting professional jobs within the industry (which sadly has more to do with social skills then actual level design talent)
What would it take to get a 1 on 1 voice chat or discussion with you? I feel I have many insights into the craft of level design you may find valuable, and have an extremely unique point of view on the topic that is rarely discussed or mentioned in discussion on the topic.
Hi there - to be honest I’m not a Halo guy, and my channel is more focused on single-player LD. I’ve heard that the forge tools are great though, and it looks v solid from what I’ve seen.
Sorry to hear that you feel getting into the industry has more to do with social skills than talent.
Hi Steve, I'm really enjoy your videos. I watched at least five of your videos in one day, and it really inspired me! :D And I wish to ask for a question. Like you said in the vid, applying for a LD job is quite tough nowadays, like people really need to show some playable levels to their employers; so, is it the same as applying for a game design college? (I was planning to apply to graduate certificate of LD, Sheridan college when I finish my bachelor's degree next year)
Hmm to be honest I don't know what the expectations are for applying to game design colleges these days. I suspect it varies, and that some (maybe even most) would be much more open to people with no prior experience at all. But sorry I can't be of more help there!
(Glad you like the videos though 👍)
This is a good discussion point. Even as someone who can develop a solo project in Unity or Unreal, it can be frustratingly time consuming when you want to just design a new level in a specific genre. The balance I have been starting to find is to focus just on getting functional mechanics that are not fully polished - no character animation in a third person game, for example. While certain small details can help sell which genre or universe you are trying to emulate, I’ve been getting better at finding a balance where I don’t need to spend a ton of time - just enough to get the basic mechanics across.
And even then, it’s tricky, because I get the sense some employers hiring will want to see your blockout and design process, while others will still want to see a polished video walk through that also has environment art/animation/sound design/etc just due to the competitive nature of applications.
I think this is a good topic to discuss, for sure.
Yeah I definitely agree that finding that balance between putting the work in that is important to sell the experience, versus not getting hung up on stuff that isn't really relevent (I think of this as working / designing elegantly, which is another topic that I plan to cover in a video someday), is pretty valuable to game dev in general! And yeah, different studios and projects will naturally expect or emphasise different things, which is tricky (although I hope environment art and proper animation is very rarely expected, to be honest).
Glad to hear the topic resonates, cheers for watching :)
@@stevelee_gamedev Looking forward to the video later on designing elegantly!
This was a great video . Want made me understand level design better was the Gcma level design courses. Steven wanted know if there would any more space for your patron were you reivew and give advises for there proflio ?
A few people have asked about the consulting slots on the Patreon - they're limited to 2 at the moment because I've got a lot going on and can't really do more yet, but that might change later this month! Glad you like the video 👍
We’re of the same generations, but I’ve missed out 😞 still trying to get in the industry today. I’ve thought of our window in the game dev world as well as a “golden age”… lots of tools available, more “basic” games that only required patient brush and texture work. Designers had more control of the whole pipeline as they were most often also environment artists.
Yeah, another reason I still like Half Life 2 as a game to make levels for is that it’s at the perfect sweetspot in terms of fidelity, where it’s recent enough to do sophisticated things with it (visuals,, gameplay, scripting, story), with human characters in a real world setting that still looks decent, and it’s old enough that you can still do it all as a solo project.
Good luck with getting into the industry - let me know if you have any questions 👍
@@stevelee_gamedev appreciate your encouragement and reply Steve. Atm I've kinda set aside level design... I haven't been playing with editors for longer than I'd like. I still think about maps/levels, write pitches/docs to record my ideas and reference material where possible... but at the same time i can't find the time to implement and real life situations just make me feel drained of my creativity.
I became a dad 2.5 years ago and our child needs more support than the average in terms of development.
I was also laid off, like many, during the pandemic, so had to spend time looking for a new job instead of practicing use of game tech (I started learning UE4 whilst furloughed). I landed another job in marketing so I'm also on constant lookout to more stimulating positions.
~
It seems to me the shortest way to get in would be leveraging the skills I already have, and aim at roles like UI Designer instead... but I still need to work on some personal project to demonstrate my skills. Further confusion was added when I landed an interview with a game studio: the feedback was I should aim to a UI Dev role, having technical knowledge (scripting/programming) from my web dev past and school education :D
Apologies for the wall of text
I know you don't want to sound like a dick or upset anyone, but I think this makes perfect sense. I feel like a block-out is just an idea, a first draft. A vague concept of a level design until you actually put it into practice and test it, and iterate on it. You can't know whether the design is GOOD or not until you use it (aka play it).
I really enjoy these videos, and especially your insights. My childhood experience with level design was quite similar, but instead of Doom levels I was doing HL2 levels in Hammer. Instead of continuing that however I became a full time software dev and continued to do game dev as a hobby ever since. The hardest part of me is still the level design aspect, and especially trying to find tools that I "enjoy" using to make levels in the current age of modern game engines (i.e. Unity, Unreal, Godot) that really lack the tools I had become accustomed to when I was younger.
These days I mostly experiment with Quake levels in Trenchbroom, and also importing those Trenchbroom levels into Unity/Unreal, but I find that this style of level design doesn't scale well into the modern era (and fidelity they require). Source 2 Hammer looks to have really developed on this area in a great degree, but again, these tools are all so disparate and disconnected across every game; and the games that ushered in entire generations of mappers & modders (Doom, Quake, HL2) are sadly not the same anymore, and it seems like these editor tools are held more and more closely held to their creators chests, with no-one really willing to share or risk losing IP to competitors.
I still do quite a bit of level design myself for Doom 2 using Ultimate Doom Builder in UDMF format. You could do a lot of amazing stuff with it if you really push yourself with it. Stuff that would rival any modern game with a big budget. Take a look at a game called The Age Of Hell, and you'll see what I mean.
You made some good points here that I never even thought about. I'm not a level designer (I'm not out of uni yet even), but I've spent a lot of weekends designing levels for different games. I've always felt like I could be spending that time more efficiently and learning level design 'better' by building games in Unity/Unreal, but it sounds like that's sort of a trap isn't it? I'm realizing that I'm not appreciating those games with great level editors as much as I could be. Maybe I should go back to them and design some more maps.
It might not be the golden era for level editors anymore, but some indie games have surprised me with their level editors. It's a bit of a double edged sword though because the games are a lot more niche; it's a big jump from designing levels for these games to the kinds of levels you'll actually be designing at a job. Anyway, here are some of those games if you're curious:
- Planetary Annihilation - spherical RTS where you build levels out of CSG. Always a favorite since it gets you thinking about sculpting out 3D space in a genre that's typically 2D
- Distance - racing platforming/speedrunning game; the background *is* the level so it blurs the line between environment art and level design. Level design for speedrunning games is always fun, making levels that are meant to be broken
- Ultimate Chicken Horse - like Mario Maker, but you competitively design and iterate a kaizo-style platforming level together with friends. Also a great substitute for designing Mario Maker levels for broke college students who could save $345 :)
Yeah - the main one I forgot to mention in the video is Prodeus, which is a super slick, fully featured level editor for people interested in making levels for old-school shooters. If only there were more!
I think s&box is a very promising platform for new level designers. It's kind of like a Garry's Mod sequel but more accessible and open.
Let's say someone made a cool gamemode for it and you want to make a map for it. Very easy: Launch the game editor, open Hammer, create a new map, in the entity list select the gamemode you want and you are ready to go. You can also playtest the map easily with others by simply uploading it within the game and allowing other players to join your lobby.
Of course the game has to be released first and it will also need good gamemodes, but the potential is massive, for gamers and developers alike. And well, the new Hammer editor is simply the best. (I might be biased.)
I'd not heard about that - nice :)
3D artist here-
I mistakenly saw blocktober as a level blockout challenge from an art / greyboxing perspective.
I realized that I wanted to make an interesting player controller way too late and ended up burning out and stopping blocktober pretty early. (Realizing that I couldn't work on levels that would be playable without a somewhat refined movement set was ... silly of me) But I'm planning on taking a better approach next year and coming more prepared. I appreciate hearing more people's thoughts on the challenge and I'll definitely post more videos next time around!!
I'm an environment artist in the industry, and this was super useful for me too. As an indie dev, I've also done loads of level design just... because we've not had the team to have a dedicated LD.
I really agree with your take on how the industry has shifted somehow for the better AND the worse, when it comes to how level design is dealt with for those who are just trying to get into the industry, and for smaller studios who rely on Game Engines, and not level design software.
Do you have any software or extra tools for things like Unity or UE that you would recommend to get back into that sort of... level design software mode?
Hmm to be honest I don't know what to suggest, which is the problem :/ I know that in terms of layouts / blockouts, there's Probuilder for Unity, and I've found a way of working in Unreal with cube meshes (and grid snapping etc) that is close enough to old-school BSP for me. But all the rest of what is so valuable about real level editors for existing games is all the scripting stuff, mechanics, animations, sounds, art, etc. Which is A) what you get when working on a real game with people, and B) different for every game, etc.
Wish I had a better answer!
Thank you for this video, Steve! I just graduated college with a BA in Simulation & Game Design and have been trying to find what specialization it is I want to truly focus on, I'm starting to realize level design is why I got into game dev in the first place and am now taking steps to further bolster my portfolio around it. I was curious, do you think dying light's developer tools are good enough to show my level design skills to studios? After some research I discovered they made what looks like relatively robust dev tools for the first game with triggers, quest design tools, lighting, npc interaction, etc. I find that quite intriguing because I love that game and it's mechanics plus it's a more modern game in relativity to HL2 or Quake.
I've never used or looked into them so I don't know for sure, but I think I've heard good things about them? Probably worth a look if you already have the game :)
I only recently got my first job in the industry as a "level designer", and I was added on so early that. There was no game content at all. No combat, crafting, no nothing. It feels like my managers really don't know what I'm doing, and see it more as environment or level art. I think I'm going to have to quit and... maybe go back and find a level editor I like, to really develop the skills I was hoping to learn.
are the managers even gamers?
:( Sorry to hear it. It’s definitely tricky because the term level design can mean a lot of things to different people / studios / projects, some of which I / we agree with or not. I hope it either gets better with time, or that you’re able to find something more up your street - good luck 👍
Both Unreal and Unity have learning kits you can download from their asset stores. Unreal has Lyra Starter kit which comes with pre-built playable game mechanics & environment assets but i found it hard learning how it's configured. Unity's starter kits(can't remember the name) is much easier to work with and build levels for.
Yeah, I've just yet to see any of these kits that are anywhere near as fully featured as something like making levels with the real editors for real games. Getting something up and running with basic, generic jumping and shooting just isn't the same as making fully playable, finished levels with real mechanics, assets, AI behaviours etc. So even though Source games feel a bit old now, I still find that they're the best option for making levels for these kinds of games, personally!
Does this mean I actually had a background in level design, as a hobby? I once played around Delta Force BHD Mission Editor, and tried to recreate Codename Irene in it, was tons of fun back then, trying to align tunnels, roads, making waypoints for blackhawks and little birds, trying to make AI do a fast rope out of a blackhawk, men such memories.
Sure, why not? :) Not heard about Delta Force BHD before - looks fun
Here I am studying level design in unity. but fortunately enough the school I`m in was able to provide ready toolkit with playable character and some assets/props to kitbash.
Struggling with starting the actual process (study after full 8h work day), but if i started i can spend 3-6 hours and realize its 2AM and in 5h i have to go to work... 😅
What if you had an interactive camera (kinda like Descent) that would pan and dolly throughout the space as a kind of "tour" of the whole level itself in a demo reel?
Sounds like it'd be better than just screenshots - but not sure how you'd do the interactive camera thing? A video would probably be fine :)
Commenting early so algorithms loves you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Steve 🙂
Hehe, cheers Joan 👍
Hey Steve, I want to practice level design, can you recommend some exercises that I could do? What is your pipeline if let's say you just want to do a small project everyday/week? Also, can maps made in halo, far cry or mario maker be good for a portfolio?
Hey Dom - sorry about the slow reply. I think levels made in Halo, Far Cry or Mario Maker all sound legit to me, if they're interesting. As for exercises you could do every day / week, I'm not sure to be honest - maybe Mario Maker levels could be made in a week, but more complicated 3D stuff typically takes a lot longer! I suppose it's a tricky balance between trying to find ways to make things that are as real and playable and fully developed as possible, but also keep the scope of your projects as small and short as possible, so that you actually finish them (including lots of iteration). For example, a level that is only 1-2 minutes long but is high quality, will usually be much better for you than a big ambitious level that is 5 or 10 minutes long, but is lower quality because of time constraints.
Hope this helps!
Respect!
I am making maps in fortnite creative/uefn do you think i could aply with those levels? And my second question is if the engine of big companies are more complecated to design the levels than in fortnite creative? Am not too sure how i can start level design i have no good pc to test stuff with
I haven't taken a look at the Fortnite tools but I'm guessing they're simplified in order to make them accessible to more people. Making something with tools like that is definitely better than nothing, so long as you're really designing things yourself, testing things, improving things based on how they play, etc.
And if you like shooters, all the classic shooters have the best level editors! All of Valve's Source Engine games and their Hammer level editor (Portal 2's built-in level editor is particularly great, I've made videos about it); Trenchbroom for making Quake levels, Doom Builder for making OG Doom levels (I've made videos about this too). Hope this helps!
@@stevelee_gamedev interesting thanks for the information
On game engines, we also have to ability to use kits to flexibly improvise against gameplay design and focus purely on the block-out.
So I should find some nice game with in game level editor and start from there? Do you need to show off some other kind of skills from other engines and tools knowledge? I am asking because level designer is something that interest me but I am not sure what I should learn or if I should just focus on creating levels from ingame lvl editor
Hey, sorry for the slow reply! As I mentioned, if possible for what you want to do, I think finding a good / suitable game with a proper level editor is the ideal way to go, because it allows you to create fully playable levels. But I understand that there are only so many games with good editors out there, and it depends on what you want to make. Learning other engines and tools like Unreal and Unity certainly has its value, because they're so widely used among games studios - the tradeoff is that it then becomes harder to make levels that you can really play, or build with any detail. Some people manage this using assets and features bought from the Unreal and Unity stores, to varying degrees of success. Hope this helps!
A comment about unreal engine specifically (i think unity is similar but im not sure). Unreal Engine has a couple different "games" available out of the box. 1st person, 3rd person, top down being the 3 big ones. These provide basic functionality that at least gives you a controllable character. While not a perfect solution, it does at least provide some functionality that allows you to "play" your level.
Yeah, I basically just don't think that's enough to create a strong portfolio piece with, and I think you're probably going to struggle to get jobs if you're up against people who have made projects that show they've made fully playable levels, and worked through all the design considerations that this entails, etc!
What current level editors (for games) do you recommend? Practicing level design as someone who wants to really get into it has been somewhat frustrating. Like you said, making levels in Unity/Unreal is starting from zero and its difficult to feel motivated starting from the ground up.
Assuming that the games interest you, I think making levels for Valve's Source engine games still stand out as the best options by far. Half Life 2 if you want to make traditional scripted FPS levels, Co-op shooter levels for Left 4 Dead, Counterstrike and Team Fortress 2 for competitive FPS, and Portal 2 for trippy first-person puzzle level design.
Portal 2 in particular, comes with a built-in, super streamlined level editor that you can start making real, legit levels with really quicky - I like it so much that I made a video about it: ua-cam.com/video/ky7T0dkidFA/v-deo.html
The closest thing I have to a tutorial for HL2 level design is my series where I make a Half Life 2 level from scratch, here: ua-cam.com/video/uuCMeH7a_Es/v-deo.html
Hope this helps!
What I could recommend to deal with this, is to work with preexisting cores that the engine provides as learning tools.
Both Unity and Unreal, and I bet GMS too, have learning resources with fully functioning characters and cores.
It's not the same as a level editor, but in today's industry a good level designer is required to understand how to interact with the engine itself and build from scratch with tools like probuilder, megascans, tilemaps, etc...
And this can be practiced with generic cores from the store.
This could also be a way to learn on how to adapt to different cores, and demonstrate that specific skill.
My point is that even with a downloaded player character with a couple of mechanics, there's still no game to make a proper level with. It makes it impossible to actually make anything worth playtesting, which means you can't iterate based on how the level actually plays, which means you never really finish anything. Being able to show that you've made real, finished, fully playable levels is way more valuable than showing you can use tools, because level design is a creative job, and lead LDs know that if an applicant has made a real level with any tools, then they can learn other tools on the job.
i spent a long time learning flash codes. the scope of my games was too big for my skill. So i had tons of abandoned game ideas. + at the time there was few courses i could take and the ones that did exist were super expensive and hardly teach anything of use. I applied for a company to work. But never got a response. Its hard to quantify my skills. I'm a jack of all trades. Master of none. I can make games but i cant finish them by myself. I draw well but my art is based on copy editing. I get more quality in that sense. Its hard to show something like that. I toke a unity course online. Stupidly expensive. It had teacher but they just gave you boring exercises that would take hours with a test at the end. It was clear the person that made them rushed it and left hardly any elaborate tips. Basically here do this and figure it out. Was so disconnecting and uninspiring. I quit. Felt more like praying on inspiring devs. It even had an entry level. Not everyone could get in. I've done sprites for indie fan games. Was what got me in. So they literally were nitpicking people that already knew to get money from them and from selling new workers to companies. Its risky to start your own thing. But its the best way to learn. you get more from online tutorials and experimenting then to lose your life savings on a souless school or company