The Secret Harley Davidson Motorcycle that could have changed EVERYTHING
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2024
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Harley Davidson could have changed history with the top secret, liquid cooled high performance engines of Project Nova. Here's the history behind the scrapped project and why it matters.
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why you talking about ear bugs that's rude.
Today I found out Harley dabbled with the V4, water cooling, over head cams and fuel injection early on. Left a lot of innovation on the table there.
Meanwhile, Honda and Yamaha killed it with the VFR750 and VMAX.
If I recall the R&D Harley you speak of was 900cc and at the time could compete with a state of the art 750 cc Japanese bike. Of course the air cooled Vtwin gang said 'No way!' and the R&D was cast away for decades.
But hey at least you can still buy a bike that still kinda looks like a 1936 Knucklehead.
I remember Nova being shelved. I also remember the then president of Kawasaki USA operations speaking about the tariff. He said (paraphrased) 'I don't care about the 5% of the market that Harley wants protection for. I am interested in the 95% of the market for large displacement bikes that Harley isn't interested in.'
True madlad
Jap junk
I am still pissed off at Harley for this stupid tariff. I resent the fact that I had to pay jacked-up prices for the two Yamaha FJs I bought in 1984 and 1986. No Harley was even close in purpose and held no interest for me.
@@bunkie2100 the ironic thing is that in recent years the tariff has bit harley in their own ass due to all the outsourcing they do overseas.
the Japs lied
Off topic a bit, but I've been watching motorcycle related channels on UA-cam for a long...long...time. However in recent years I've grown bored with the same old, same old and haven't watched as much.
Then, I found your channel. You are speaking my language. Love it. Keep doing what you're doing.
Wow thanks!
check out fortnine for a great motorcycle channel
This is cool. It's the first video I've seen on the Nova engine project.
A modular engine family of advanced, ohc engines of 2 to 6 cylinders in vee formation, it would've given H-D something they hadn't had for years: Relevance. They would've been right on the sharp end of motorcycle development. Sadly, they chose to be like the once brilliant and extremely influential Beach Boys and be a nostalgia act.
Porsche was never really just a car manufacturer, it started off as and continued to be an engineering design consultancy. Ferdinand Porsche designed the Volkswagen under Hitler's direction based on the Tatras that Der Fuhrer had seen when he had been shown around the factory in the mid-'30s. In the late-'50s the company was employed by Studebaker to design a car (which never came to fruition) at the urging of then-Studebaker chief engineer John DeLorean.
Then in the 1970s Audi employed them to design a sports coupe. This project was rejected by Audi in the end because the company was a manufacturer of front-wheel drive cars by definition and Porsche had presented them with a rear-wheel drive coupe with the gearbox in unit with the rear axle. In fact, the engine was the only part of the car from the VW/Audi parts bin. Nonetheless, Porsche decided to produce it themselves as the 924 and Audi gave the 80 (Fox in the US) a two-door bodyshell and called it the Audi Coupe.
At the time Harley was working with them, they were making more money from their consultancy work than from their cars.
My recollection is that the 924 was very much a VW Group parts bin special. This was discussed when the car was first introduced. The gearbox was Passat but the bell housing modified to allow the gear change mechanism to pass through. Rear trailing arms were late Beetle, front suspension used VW bits, lots of small parts also. As a result, Porsche people regarded it as inferior, and the 944 derived from it shed as many VW bits as possible. Its engine derives from half a 928.
Porsche Cars and Porsche Design are two different companies. Almost all manufacturers of all kinds of vehicles have had business with Porsche Design. Some got help from Lotus instead.
With as far along as the development process was with HD, I'm moderately surprised Porsche didn't pull a 924 and just sell the motorcycle as their own.
AMF-Harley-Davidson spent between $10M and $15M on the Nova project, it's modular powerplants were planned to be offered in three capacities, 500cc V-twins, 1000cc V-fours and 1500cc V-sixes. Only ten complete and running Nova powered machines were ever built. The Nova project is another case of "If only" for Harley-Davidson.
The REAL REASON PROJECT NOVA WAS KILLED was not to focus on tariff protection but poor timing. If the Nova project had proceeded as planned, the first bikes would have hit the showroom around 1983 to 1985. But since Honda released the Magna & Sabre (with liquid cooled V4 engines) in 1982, Harley couldn't take the chance that the Nova would be seen as a "me too" product. And since the Honda V4 engines were excellent (If you've ever ridden a V65, you know what I mean.), the Nova would have looked even worse if it wasn't even better than the Hondas.
This video does deserve credit, it has a lot of good information that isn't widely known outside of Milwaukee.
The business book "Well Made in America: Lessons from Harley-Davidson on Being the Best" talks about the turnaround. Vaughn Beals CEO was the brains behind the buy out and turnaround. HD was three days from closing when Beals negotiated bank loans and put all of HD's assets up as collateral. To quote the books summary, "Partly because AMF was unwilling to invest in the company, in 1981, Beals and 12 other investors, including Willie G. Davidson, initiated a highly leveraged $80 million buy out of Harley-Davidson that took the company private at the equivalent of 25 cents per share. After touring several Japanese motorcycle plants, Beals concluded that Harley-Davidson's problems were not foreign imports, but rather the company's own mismanagement. As a result, he initiated the use of just-in-time delivery, TQC - Total Quality Control, and automated MRP along with streamlining manufacturing operations, after seeing these practices in use at the Honda Marysville Motorcycle Plant in Ohio." So Honda may have played a part in saving Harley (from itself).
When AMF sold HD the first thing that the new owners did was to get new CNC machines from Cincinnati Milacron. They had to prove to the bankers that they were serious about improving their quality. Only after they did that did they go to Washington for help. Story was that Reagan wanted nothing to do with a motorcycle company closely identified with outlaw bikers but after Vaughn Beals met with him the tariffs were imposed. HD scored more points by asking for the tariffs to be lifted ahead of schedule, since mainstream motorcycle magazines like Cycle had given positive reviews of the new Softail and Low Rider models.
Top shelf Bart. I didn't know about Nova.....Was always into Honda Fours ..had a brand new 79 dohc CB 750 SS at the time.
You can see a Nova model in the Harley museum in Milwaukee Wisconsin. I took pictures and wondered why they didn’t go into production,this video explains why.
Yes, and thanks to Erik Buell as well👍
“Could have changed history forever” - a bit over dramatic there I think as they did eventually release a Porsche engineered bike in the V-Rod and it’s had limited global success because they could not help themselves and made it a feet forward cruiser. Triumph, Royal Enfield and BMW have shown how to compete and grow on the world stage by making motorcycles that don’t just pander to their traditional customers but have a global presence with a diversified range of bikes to truly compete with the Japanese. The Chinese are making inroads and will be a force going forward yet Harley still carries on churning out the same basic (and expensive) bike dressed up ten different ways year after year. It’s so sad and so frustrating.
Suuuuuuper interesting video! I had no idea these existed. The fairing is the only thing that dates those concept bikes as its shape was carried on. Hagerty revelations has a great video on the Porsche 924/944 which goes over how much co-engineering the company does for other manufacturers. Very cool to hear about it here!
My thought was WHY didn’t HD continue to build their Heritage bikes but also build sport bikes to compete against the Japanese bikes. I wasn’t aware that Porsche was involved in the Nova project, but have always felt HD missed the mark in not building the V-Rod as a V4 rather than a V twin. Vehicle manufacturers survive and prosper by building what the public wants or they go out of business.
The tragedy of HD is that they refuse to learn from their mistakes. The Nova, the V-Rod and even more significant Buell: all missed opportunities by HD. HD seems to be cemented in that oh so American mindset of "if it was good enough for my pappy, it's good enough for me" and it has held them back through the decades.
Even "good old" BMW eventually saw the light when they brought out the K-series besides their "tried and trusted" R-series boxers and look where they are at now. HD could have been at a way higher level if they had adopted and stuck to BMW's example: imagine HD having a classic line, a V-Rod line and a Buell line; HD would basically have a bike line to suit most riders. Add an adventure line and they would have had a complete line-up. Instead they always dropped their innovations like hot potatoes and fell back on "tried and trusted".
The biggest issue with a HD sport bike is, people won’t buy them. Now, buell was a perfect example of that being wrong, but, by and large, Harley guys are Harley guys, and want big v twins.
The Nova project did spawn the FXR bikes, designed by buell.rubber mounted, performance based v twins.
Buell was a visionary and wanted to build sport bikes with sportster motors. Harley said there was no market.
When buell went out and proved them wrong, HD said they would sell them at dealerships and supply motors to buell.
They were actually a big hit. But, as buell advanced his tech, moving away, and ahead of HD, they were dropped.
HD again said there was no market for HD sport bikes and affectively killed buell.
The vrod, also from the move project , could’ve been another hit, but HD put a great motor in a stupid platform and caused it’s demise. Had they used the motor in sportier platforms, and also a bagger/ touring platform, I think they’d have had a hit. But they chose to put them in an ungainly and I’ll performing “ cruiser” platform that nobody wanted.
Today, the 750 and such use a smaller version of the vrod type design, but it’s too little too late.
They missed their chance to bring the vrod motor to the public in viable platforms and now they’re old news.
They could’ve captured the midsize bike market then with the smaller vrod type bikes, but the window had closed.
HD was your dads brand and the young moved on to other import midsize bikes.
Triumph, Yamaha, Kawasaki etc, all brought back midsize twins and singles and HD was trying to catch up, too late again. They have cemented their legacy in big cruisers and tourers and that’s where they’ll die.
Too many missed opportunities with closed minded thinking.
@@megastick9324 Agree. H-D killing the Buell line was idiocy on par with the way the V-Rod platform was used. H-D should have been developing a 750 or smaller displacement "starter" bike like they had with the old 45 back in the day. Missed opportunity. Putting the V-Rod platform in some Lazy--Boy riding position? Idiocy. No dirt bikes or scrambler type? Idiocy. I love my H-D bikes and ride the hell out of them, but Harley basically doesn't support their product for more than 10-15 years anymore and just want to sell new bikes to aging Boomer RUBS. The next 10 years for H-D I think may make or break them.
@@seththomas9105 Dude, Harley did develop a 750 starter bike, the Street 750 and 500.
@@SteffiReitsch Too little, too late, and too expensive.
When talking about prices of motorcycles you have to remember that since the 1970s prices have gone up 10 times and wages have gone up four. When I was a kid and I made $2 an hour gasoline was $0.33 a gallon. When I was in high school to minimum wage was 235 an hour and a gallon of gas was a dollar 65. He phony energy crisis cost inflation that totally destroyed the buying power of the money that you made.
I figured you would have mentioned the Harley VRod. Porsche had there hands in that project too.
I knew nothing of this. Thanks so much!
In the 80s, the Japanese companies were dumping motorcycles in the U.S. market, selling them below cost in many instances, in order to break Harley and put their own bikes into the market, after which point, with the market secured, prices would be raised. Harley made a fair argument against it, won in court, and the Reagan admin started levying tariffs on the Japanese bikes. This didn't stop H-D from shooting themselves in the foot and continuing the heritage theme, which faded in popularity as their core clientele aged and younger buyers started sizing up their bikes. The one thing Harley did have, was riding ergonomics; the seats are low to the ground and make the bikes easier to handle at low speed, and the riding position's really comfortable on the road. And they looked good. But it wasn't enough.
Another better vid by Bart. Thanks Bart that was great and very educational. Cheers
They should build this model today😎
Terrific project. I knew about the Nova project from the presentation of the sportster size model, but never have I heard it all put together so well. Thanks.
Thank you 👍 didn't know it!!
This is so cool I didn't know anything about this secret bike wow with Porsche Made engines and transmissions that's so cool
The Nova touring bike looks cool. I owned a Buell XB 9r, it was a great bike……..what could have been.
What a real shame Nova never happened
Imagine the Buells with a real motor like this
Great info. Did not know about Nova. But that is how Hardly Desirable is run.
Somehow I missed it too and I have been riding since 1978. Must have been some article about it in a motorcycle magazine back then.
First, if AMF hadn't bought HD in '69, there would be no HD. AMF dumped loads of money into the company and did all they could to keep their civil contracts going and keeping bikes in production, sadly the 70's were well known for labor strife, and harley was no different, their own workers were damaging the brand at times. Now if the nova had been released by 1982 they may have gained a market and also gotten a jump on the Japanese but under new management the company decided to push heritage rather than innovation. At least they saved the EVO and put it into production, as well as the rubber mounted isolated engine chassis. The Evo luckily ended up being the best engine they ever produced, the twin cam was a step backward in longevity, but at least gave the aftermarket a big push developing all the cam drive fixes. Redesigning the Sportster was also a very good move, and the old iron engine was awful. I've also seen pictures of an inline four mockup they were considering, but I never heard it going anywhere beyond a model.
Is it just me or is the design way ahead of its time? That looks nothing like a late 70s bike. the lack of chrome (apart from the engine), the dark silver body colour, the smooth lines, those 3 spoke wheels, almost looks like something from the early 2000s to me
For the most part, it can be said "If there is a way to mess up an advance design, put Harley on the Team and they will absolutely screw it up". This bike would have been an outstanding product but digressed back to their only thought process, Cruiser Only Design. They tried to fix their move later when they designed the V-rod, but again they placed an outstanding sports bike engine on a cruiser bike. It didn't handle at all, it could stop, eventually, and was about as comfortable as a bed of nails. It was also hobbled by it's stratospheric price and try to put up against the King, Yamaha V-Max. Sorry the V-Max would blow it away in performance, plus it had acceptable handling, top it off it actually was much more comfortable, all at practically half the cost. Then again about a decade after that, they released their 500-750 line, again a good engine hobbled with dismal cruiser set-up. That also was a dismal failure. The only way HD will survive is after their current leadership retires, or take that long dirt nap and someone takes charge that grasps that motorcycles are more than just based off of a cruiser layout. Their Adventure bike and their e-bike will sell a handful and that is about it, neither has any real qualities that will match their stratospheric price tag.
So true. H-D is a tradition based company, not a high technology company. The last time H-D ever really put a bike that was at the forefront of motorcycle technology was with the XLH Sportster in 1957. When the Ironhead engine was increased to 999cc, it was making very close to the coveted 1 HP/cubic inch, and it was the fastest production motorcycle for a short period of time. Then the bottom dropped out, big time. After that, H-D haven’t done anything that wasn’t done before them, and often times LONG before them. Today’s “Milwaukee 8” H-D engine is technology that Japan was using back in the late 1970’s. Anything Porsche did for H-D like the V-Rod was ancient history by the time H-D got around to it.
@@MarkPalmer1000 you are correct, it appears if it isn't a 45-degree V twin cruiser it isn't worth their time. They have obtained some very good engines over time, but either dropped them as they didn't fit the mold or crammed them into a cruiser layout frame to ensure their failure. Like I said in the past, if you want an excellent power plant to go down in flames, simply hand it over to Harley, and they will screw it up beyond belief. Their Pan American, I am guessing, will be a dismal failure relatively soon due to 2 specific reasons. 1. The cost is way over the line, yes it is a relative good bike but it isn't in the same class as other bikes out there that cost much less. They did that with the V-Rod, was a weak sister to the V-max at nearly double the cost. 2. That stressed engine frame concept on an Adventure bike is going to be a really costly mistake for Harley. Yes, only a handful will make it off-road, but already there are reports of component failures, and broken engine-to-frame mounts. Makes that BMW rear swing arm issue look minor in comparison. A cradled twin-loop frame makes it much more logical for an Adventure Bike, seems as if steel tubes flex in impact situations where cast materials break.
@@thomasheer825 lots of good points.
The V-Rod engine is a derivative of the VR 1000 race bike. That was a big step in the right direction, but not enough - the race bike had potential but needed to catch up. If they had done so, and made a road sports bike from it, and then a full range. But no, Harleys are cruisers...
What was the issue with BMW rear suspension?
Have had BMW's for the best part of 4 decades, and sooner or later they will figure out how to attach the drive splines to the hub, as this is the most common problem. Never had it happen to any of mine, but I don't ride by force, was ingrained to ride SMOOTH from a kid. Those guys that slam the bike around eventually work those rivets out of the hub. Over the years have seen it again and again, and have developed several repairs that seem to work better than those rivets, but some people can break anything. Other than that have found BMW's rather bullet proof, some minor Bosh electrical Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Oscar things. but any Bosh product has issues.
I love how the exhaust is routed, it kind of gives you the dual-cradle frame shape
Thumb's up! I was completely unaware of that "path not taken" by Harley.
Most are not aware that Harley was contracted by Honda to teach them how to mass produce motorcycles early on.
How many did they build you showed a bunch of different ones they don’t need em all in a museum I need one of these
In '79 the Motor Company hired a man from England, he designed the Norton Commando motor and he saved Harley by designing the Evolution motor, it's bulletproof.
It might be better served to explain that out a bit more. The Norton twins were developed in the late '40s and continued on with improvements and increased displacement throughout their production, visually always looking much the same.
@@whalesong999 Look it up. It's a fact.
@@fearsomename4517 I'll do that. Quite interesting that H-D would farm out it's design forays to other, foreign companies. They were really struggling. At the onset of the '70s, H-D had, as I recall, a 90 day, 3k mile warranty Suzuki had 12 month/12k mile warranty.
So, John Favill would be the gentleman from England hired by H-D to develop the new Harley engine, the Evolution engine, according to information on the web. However, other articles about the Commando mention other engineers in the program, the story gets muddied somewhat on details.
This cut-and-paste is strong enough and thank you for the mention: "John Favill was Harley-Davidson's manager of engine design at that time. He got his start in the motorcycle industry in 1959 with Villiers Engineering, eventually working for Norton where he was instrumental in the development of the Commando. From that experience, he ended up working for Harley-Davidson in the middle of 1979, tasked with the development of the new 1,340cc V2 Evolution engine".
@@whalesong999 I said Commando 750 and 850. He saved Harley Davidson.
@@fearsomename4517 H-D had gotten quite the black eye in the '70s and I'm sure it was quite a change for them to adapt. From what I now read, it took a lot of cooperation from the company and the unions to get them back on the map. My personal recall of the period was that we could feel the mood at the retail end and there was gossip around their struggles. I had the feeling that they'd come to the end of their relying on tradition, we could feel it causing them to crumble just as BSA had. Pride can be a b&%#h.
7:09
Are we looking at a front perimeter brake years before Buell?.......or maybe that's just a Nova bike that Erik Buell worked on while he was a Harley engineer?
The fairings don't look painted, but overall the bike seems to be of the era.....
If only these bikes could have been made as production models.
It reminds me of the Ducati Appollo
I have had 6, and I went backwards this time. I went from an 07 Softail to an 81 FLT. Love it. Wish I had got this old AMF bike first.
The problem with HD is that the styling department has the final say in everything. Harley has engineers that are as good as anybody's, but the styling department vetoes everything they design if it doesn't look like, sound like and feel exactly like something from the 1930s. Other motorcycle companies put the engineering department in charge, which makes sense if you think of your products as machines designed to do something as well as possible, as opposed to being something to look at.
I would definitely have considered the Nova bike. That was right after I bought my first BMW. Obviously, I dodged a bullet. The Nova would have become a bastard child with the "new" HD management. As you pointed out, HD had an ethos that was not going to go away, but would grow and metastasize into the gigantic chrome fat dude haulers they were already known for. Five BMWs and over 500K miles later, your video confirms that it was never going to be otherwise. Terrific channel, and I ordered the Raycon's. Hope you're right there, too :)
You didn't dodge a bullet, because the bike weren't put into production.
Let's say Harley did make the Nova, and it was released in 81. By 83, Yamaha had the Venture touring bike with 115 HP V4, that later would go into the V-max. And Honda had the V65 Sabre and Magna V4s. I think Suzuki had a V4 cruiser also.
I'm not sure if it would have been so easy for Harley to compete.
This was still ahead of those ground breaking Hondas and Yamahas by several years. Harley would have actually remained competitive, rather than having the US gov't cut imports off at 700ccs without massive tariffs. Corruption is cheaper than innovation. I love the irony. A brand that's espoused as an icon of American exceptionalism was kept alive by government protectionism. What I didn't know was that they could have actually survived by holding to innovation.
@@9233267 I'm not sure about several years. They started developing the Nova in 78, but when could the actual product have been available.
@@9233267 I don't know of anyone who said "I was going to buy a new Japanese motorcycle but the tariffs just made it too expensive."
@@spaceflight1019 I wasn't around so I don't know for sure. I do know that the 750cc magna and saber were reduced to 698cc to avoid tarrifs in the US, and I was under the impression that they didn't sell many V65's compared to the Canadian market, per capita. I think those tarrifs were a pretty big deal.
@@phillipbatho3213 Fair point, when did Yamaha introduce their V4? Honda was 82. But even if it came out at the same time, that's still a competitive platform.
Very interesting
Excellent video brother, your knowledge is highly appreciated. God bless.
I think the main issue with Harley Davidson is that they ended up creating such a niche style of bike and then convinced a whole nation that real Americans ride HD,and this is what HD look like, that now they're stuck in a massive hole that they can't dig their way out of.
There is no issue. They make bikes that their customers want and get paid. If you don't like that style it's your choice to buy elsewhere.
@@k9m42 nha bro their are a clown of the market at this point
They are doing quite well, and have expanded the varriety of bikes they manufacture, and are phasing out older models. Their adventure bike is a great bike, And according to Lemmy (formerly of Revzilla), who is the opinion I trust, their electric bike is the best electric motorcycle on the road today.
Bashing Harleys is mostly people comparing cruisers to sport bikes, which makes about as much sense as comparing a Porsche to a truck. I ride every day, in all weather, in the street glide is way more comfortable in the rain than a sport bike.
I remember that era well as 1978 was when I bought the Lowrider model, which I still have. Would have love to see the Nova happen.
One thing riders have demanded, and loved about Harley, is the low seating position. Around the time of the Nova project, putting the fuel tank under the seat whereby raising the seat height was something that many riders just wouldn't accept. Motorcycle historians often overlook this point, not giving credit to how important this was/is in the marketing of a new design.
Gold Wings have had the fuel tanks there forever. Hasn't stopped anyone from riding them.
Yet again you sell Erik Buell short, he had a part in the design of this bike along with the fxr. I suggest you take a deep look at how he tried to innovate HD and later his own company and was constantly strangled by them at every turn.
Absolutely. Eric Buell was a design genius and his attempts to move the brand in a multi faceted direction fell on deaf ears.
Having owned a V4 Honda Magna (my first bike), i researched the big V4's prior to buying (1988) and the myth, the legend, Project Nova came to my attention. I understand Harley had a decision to make, and Nova was shelved. Honda Came out w the V-65 Magna, Yamaha, the V-Max, and Royal Star , and Suzuki the Madura.
So they (HD) blew it, depending on who you talk to, but they did finally wise up and collab w Porsche fir the VRod, a bike I love. I would still love to see a Nova up close and personal.
They made the right choice. HD riders are a strange lot, and probably would have ignored the bike, just like so many did w the VRod.
Another excellent video Bart.🔥💯
I have never been interested in owning a Harley (have owned Honda, Suzuki, Kaw bikes) but I think I would have seriously looked at the Nova. HD should have built it along with their traditional platforms.
I say again, the biggest problem with Harley. Is the Harley customers that want 1940s tech. Harley has chased that same customer as they get older and older, and soon they will die. At some point they are actually going to have to find some new customers. This bike sounds cutting edge (even though it's still hiding things like the radiator, and making fake fins.) and it's a shame it never came out.
Always interesting content. Thanks.
Very interesting stuff Bart.
Fast forward to building the VROD:
Harley: hey Porsche, can you help us?
Porsche: well, well, well... Look who comes crawling back 😎
Still love the look of the FXRT fairing.
Awesome video. Thanks!
Wow, I want one of these bikes!! Even if they made it a air-cooled version of this engine, or oil/air cooled, heck they should have at least started another division, still sell this bike, the sporty looking bike was awesome looking, they could have called it
Nova Cycles a Harley Davidson division, I believe it would been a timeless bike, age very well,. I have a old Yamaha, it looks dorky to some extent, some things just do not age well, looks out of place with time, the nova looked like it would been a awesome bike, I love building things, and it would be awesome to build a bike that looked like that, the false tank with the scoops just look great with the smoothe curves!
I've got a feeling that, somehow, Motus were the kind of motorcycles that could evolve in America from what we may call the "Nova mentality", if that project wasn't shelved.
Now Nova Project is dead and so is the interesting Motus and I guess the Power Plus liquid platform from Indian is the most modern thing one can expect from a American motorcycle manufacturer without too much increase of RPM to reach big torque. By doing so, that Indian motor perhaps keeps 'some' traditional American feeling on a contemporary technological context.
On the other hand, at least on the paper, Harley's Revolution Max is too sporty (revving too high to deliver power and torque) to have legit and traditional cruiser or bagger feeling (and credits) to their machines.
Anyway... Just some thoughts...
Peace from Brazil. ✌
Instead of looking at this lost opportunity as Harley myopia, an important facet to this decision was mentioned but not explored. Harley didn't have the capital to take this chance, period; Vaughn Beals had just leveraged any and all available funding sources to buy the company from AMF. Comparing Harley with Honda in this regard overlooks that Harley was pretty much insolvent; Honda most certainly was not.
Your video explains perfectly why I have owned 3 Porsches and have never owned a Harley Davidson.
Respectful
You forgot to mention the V Rod… which was a reboot of project nova. Porsche designed liquid cooled engine with the gas tank under the seat.
Also, the nova bikes were V4s… not V twins. Hence the 4 exhaust pipes.
Everyone bangs AMF, but the best designs came out of those years.
Some designs still in use today.
I think this could have been a succes, comparable with BMW: building new liquid cooled 4 cylinders and the more traditional 2 cylinders. Harley could continue to build the typical American cruiser bikes, a faster and modern Sportster and European styled sport tourers, sport bikes and adventure touring bikes with these new engines. I think there is nothing wrong with hiring another company to develop new engines: the spectacular Van Veen OCR 1000 had an engine developed by NSU and Citroen. It was not a succes, because these companies stopt the Wankel engine project.
It seems like every time Harley comes up with some new engine, it never catches on. I wonder how long the new engine will last.
LOL at the spoiled Great Dane. Great video as always. Thanks.
Bart
This project was not so secret in the 70’s, i recall it very well, the proposals brought out the usual partisans who thought any change to a Harley was a sacrilege and the world as we knew it would end. Others, like me thought that the collaboration with Porsche would probably produce a fantastic engine. I can remember, I think, Cycle World, even test riding a prototype. The weird styling we didn’t worry about much because we trusted that the market would force a rethink.
What was secret was what happened next. It all seemed to disappear without trace around the time of the ‘coup’ when armed executives marched on headquarters and lynched AMF’s Ceo.,
No, not really, but we then heard nothing more until years later when the ‘rod’ series arrived and we all assumed it was the Porsche connection that finally happened.
Good story.
I was a little kid so hold no grudge toward AMF…in fact I liked or was intrigued by many things that were associated with AMF. Even today, wouldn’t it be interesting to have Harley-Davidson dirt bikes and ATVs & other associated powersport offerings(maybe snowmobiles would still be a bit much 😄)…they would increase the ridership and start the H-D journey so much earlier.
Maybe in the long run…AMF running the company would have been the better outcome?
Your videos are excellent and your voice and personality are terrific.
I love the exhaust😎
The V-Rod motor screamed to be in a sport bike AND a sport touring bike but we are dealing with HD. If it does not fit the image they won't touch it no matter
how good the idea is.
The V-Rod IS project Nova. It's an HD/Porsche collaboration.
Thanks - My opinion of AMF went up a notch
Amazing ! Pity they couldn't have followed through on those designs
AMF saved Harley. Later on Willie G. added styling which boosted sales. However to say that AMF was just a bowling equipment manufacturer is a ridiculous statement. Get it together! By the way I bought a,79 Harley. GREAT BIKE. BOUGHT NEW.
My brother had an FL that was made right during the changeover AMF to Buyout (per VIN) It was a great bike.
Bought a new Yamaha 750 special, in 78, my first new vehicle ever. It was ok, a couple yrs in, 2nd gear went out. Just rode and skipped over it, it ran fine.
You forgot in 1979 Kawasaki built the kz1300. Inline 6. That was 120 horsepower, and 88 ft lb of torque. The Honda cbx was a great bike of but it was 1000 cc it wasn't as fast as the kz1100, or the Suzuki 1100 katana or the Yamaha SX 1100.
Leather and tassels... LMAO! 🥸👍🏻🤣
Under the development name “Revolution Engine”, in 2002 development partner Porsche Engineering developed a new V2 engine for the “V-Rod” model of the American motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson.Against the backdrop of a collaboration stretching back to the 1970s, the Porsche engineers constructed a water-cooled 1,131 cc motor based on a racing engine that delighted Harley-Davidson's demanding clientele both for its performance as well as its imposing sound. With a DOHC valvetrain and electronically controlled fuel injection, the VRSC-series Harley with its four-valve engine put out up to 120 hp.
At the time of the managment buyback from AMF in June of 1981, the Nova V4 was still around a year away from production. At that same time they saw the testing and introduction of the Honda V45 Sabre and Magna, making 82 HP from a 748cc 16 valve V4 engine to be introduced for the 1982 model year. The sleek V45 put the nail in the coffin for the Nova, and the decision to move forward with the traditional style Harley EVO V-twin instead. It was a good and much less risky move on Vaughn Beals/Willie G Davidson's parts.
If Reagan hadn't imposed such hefty tariffs on imported Bikes, the Evo wouldn't have been the saving grace that it became.
It's interesting how a few decades later Porsche returned to H-D to help develop the V rod.
I guess you could say that Harley made the right choice going with the Evo? I guess? I wish they had went the other route and pushed innovation with technology and performance. Maybe they wouldn’t be struggling to build a reliable modern motorcycle that actually starts and runs and struggling to get 90hp from a liter bike?
Struggling is a relative term. Horsepower in a tractor motor is an oxymoron. Only torque is an actual factor.
@@carlbruhn1772 Talking about the 975 rev max, not the big air cooled engines.
1978 My friend had a Kawasaki 1100 LTD and spent a ton on it with after market parts and that thing was a Monster! He got the bug and Bought a new 78 Wideglide and that was nothing but a POS! The factory replaced the Motor twice and It still had issues. he finally sold it and bought another one in 1989 and rode it for a long time! But man that 78 was a Lemon!
There's a scene in a Simpsons episode where the old folks take control of Springfield.
The final scene has them standing at the door of the retirement home , able to do what ever they like, and one says: "I'm scared ,let's watch TV" and they all go back inside.
That's HD and all the modern engines they paid money to companies like Porsche to design. When it came to putting them in bikes , someone said: "I'm scared ,let's continue chasing the Pirate Cosplay market , with 1930's designs."
Kinda expected you to end up the video by talking about the V-Rod bikes which basically were the final stage of Project Nova. Porsche-built 1000cc watercooled V-twin under Harley license, made from 2002 till around 2018 (when they were selling out remaining stock) and a fairly successful bike with it’s own niche customer base.
Was not Porsche built. They were a design consultant. It was Harley built in their U.S. factory.
You're forgetting the Kawasaki KZ-1300, which put out 120 hp in 1979, and the Z1-R TC, which was good for 130 hp in 1978-79.
Larry Jex not sure where you're getting that figure of 130 (crank?) hp for kz 1300.
I recently saw one with good compression dyno 82 hp @ back wheel which would put crank bhp around, maybe 95-100.
“It turns out Harley was actually ahead of its time with … FAKE FINS.“😂 I had to stop the video and comment. This is killing me .
Then Honda came out with the Magna V4 750, then V4 1000, and Yamaha came out with the iconic V-Max V4 --- HD could have been there first, will bugger me sideways with the rough end of a pineapple!, why did they let this project die?
The XR1200 was definitely ahead at the time and the definitely should have kept Buell.
modern Harleys don't need 6 speeds. I've had three softails and a road king, 6th gear was an absolutely useless waste of space and weight on every one of them. for starters, the 96 CI evo is governed at 104 mph. you're only halfway through 5th gear when you hit that governor! even my 114 road king was like that. my shaft-driven 77 yamaha 750 triple was faster on both acceleration and top speed.
Nova didn't disappear completely. The cosmetics like fairing and saddlebags went to FXR line, and as of the engine.... Does VRod look familiar ( though it's 2 cyl)?
Road cruisers. Need it for them long straight US roads.
It’d be very difficult for harley to compete head to head with the competition when the competition can design and build their own cutting edge engines and harley has to outsource that aspect to another company.
Wow that was some bike! I remember in the early seventies when us teenagers rode mini bikes a small motorcycles, On vacated lots, one kid had like a HD 125 2 stroke scrambler type bike. Probably a AMF Harley one, that sound just like a vacuum cleaner.
Somewhere in a cardboard box in storage, I have a smuggled picture of a Nova prototype.
Harley was right to end the Nova project - no matter how good it was, it would not sell to the Harley faithful, and it wouldn’t sell to anybody else because it was a Harley.
The V Rod was disappointing too, in part, because the 60° V-twin didn’t sound right.
Well, you get an engine design from the 1940's that just plain works. Figure the speed limits on nearly 100% of our freeways being 75 miles per hour, with traffic going 85 typically. A Harley 883 can easily maintain that with ease, and even go 90 for passing. It rides smooth, has the perfect feel, and is considered among one of the best beginner-safe motorcycles. What is there left to fix? Nothing, really.
The Super Cruiser that should have been...
Not more AMF bashing, 70’s shovels were great bikes, just needed some minor tweaking!
No need to hide a radiator if you make it interesting. The radiators of Japanese bikes of the era added to the coolness factor. The "Water buffalo" for example. Embrace the design don't pretend it is not there cooling the bike.