This is what upsets me so much when people complain about Bubbles from the powerpuff girls, so many people say she is a dumb blonde, but her character is FIVE, and in reality she's just sensitive and loves animals and coloring and still pulls her weight when it comes to fighting, yet because her character is more passive than her sisters, Bubbles gets written off as the stupid one.
Sierra Melody The best part about Bubbles is when she gets serious and pulls a 180 showing she is capable of being aggressive, but she simply isn't because she'd rather play.
Bubbles is my fave and I could relate to her as a child. I have heard lots of people praising Buttercup as the most badass but for me all 3 were equally badass in their own way. Buttercup was like a fighter - tomboy, probably this is why people liked her more.
I hate that, Bubbles is sweet artistic and speaks another language (animal) none of that equals dumb, even though I always felt more represented by Buttercup
I was scared that she was going to bash Sansa Stark. I always viewed Sansa as a Survivor. Young, makes mistakes, must grow, but she survives as most of GoT's "badasses" are killed.
Ugh when people say Katniss is "weak" in the last movies - she has PTSD because of her experiences in The Hunger Games. She's showing the symptoms from Catching Fire, and it's exacerbated in Mockingjay because she's been separated from Peeta and is forced to perform for the resistance. Sansa is also my favourite character. She goes along with tradition and what she is meant to do from her gender but also uses those stereotypes to gain power and manoeuvre herself into positions of power. It's entirely the only thing she can do given the situations she's placed in by men. Sansa also has a clear character arc where she grows from a child into a young adult, which I enjoy watching.
I'm not sure I agree Sansa meant to do that, but she along of the Starks knew when to keep her head down and her mouth shut. I admire wisdom more than bravery. She kept herself alive, watched, listened and eventually learned enough to play the game herself.
I get why katniss acted the way she did in the last book and I don’t think she’s weak for it, but it’s always kind of felt like she grinds to a halt in that book (or at least goes a lot slower) and doesn’t really... want to do anything? As the protagonist?
Or they talk of stuff like willpower (now that is one idea we could do without what is even willpower supposed to mean?), but the point is that they miss the fact that it's the writing that is weak or strong.
An understandable error, since the term "strength" is associated with powerlifting and bodybuilding. "Determined," "brave," or "strong-willed" would better describe heroic behavior.
I watched a review of season 6 of GoT by a popular female reviewer and she literally said that Sansa "deserved to be punished" for [spoilers if you haven't seen it yet] going behind Jon's back and saving the fucking day. The whole season repeatedly proved that Jon is not great in a leadership position and is more of a soldier and fighter and he said so himself that Sansa should be leader. Yet here we go with King of the North Jon Snow lol. Honestly, if you hate a female character so much for her femininity, cleverness, and going against a man's "authority" to get shit done and think she should be "punished," then you probably hate women.
+marinashutup Punished?? I have no idea how anyone could get that from this season dear lord! And yeah King of the North ending was such bollocks, Jon doesn't know what he's doing
Jon Snow and (sorry, not sorry) Daenerys are the most overrated characters! They are plain, simple and you can almost predict their next move (the same with Aria). From the Starks I loved Catelyn Stark and now Sansa, because they can make the hard choices and they can survive (especially Sansa) in the most brutal environment. And I do also enjoy Cersei Lannister - one of the most complex characters in GoT. :D
Actually, IIRC a lot of people disliked Xander exactly for that reason and the show itself engages with that idea in several episodes, including the Zeppo.
SANSA YES. I have gotten so much shit over the last how ever many years because since season 1 i have been rooting for sansa. She has always intrigued me and as we've watched her grow up and learn more about the surroundings that she's been put in oh my god! I love her so much! I also love cersei even though she's not necessarily someone i root for, i also find the way she handles her own power in a world dominated by men - hands down amazing. Thanks for this video!
i disagree about sansa, at least the book version (which is the only one I know) she never voices any opinion, she agrees to being the puppet to little fingers plan despise having very strong feelings agisnt it. I think her character is written in a way that seems void, and I get that is becuase of her upbringing but in 5 books we see hardly any charcter develpoment at all, considering the amount of shit that she is put through. Idk, she just doesnt seem as realistic as many of other characters like her mom
Her mom that voices her opinion all the time yet never ever makes a correct decision. Yeah Sansa may be the meekest of the Starks but she does what she needs to survive.
DUDE as much as i love arya stark if by any chance they switched places, arya wouldnt make it a day without getting beheaded. She wouldnt make it through all that propriety and politics
Same here!! I was rooting for Sansa big time since the moment she thought about pushing Joffrey off that bridge before Sandor pulled her back. That moment I realized she was much stronger than she let on. It's very telling that someone like Jaime (who I love btw) can start off as an absolutely evil person in the show, trying to murder a child, but people accept his growth and redemption throughout the show. Yet Sansa started off as a whiny spoiled child (not evil, just an immature kid) and yet people can't get past that despite all her character growth. Our society holds a lot of contempt for young feminine girls, it's sad.
Buffy, Katniss, Sansa and Arya are all among my favorite characters of all time (book versions only in case of Sansa and Arya - neither Stark sister is well written on the show, and Sansa has particularly been inconsistently characterized and generally badly served by the show). Because they are all complex, developed and relatable Buffy and Katniss may be able to physically fight, bur that's not what makes them strong as characters, or as people. It's other qualities that make them strong as people - like a sense of right and wrong, compassion, resilience, out of the box thinking, resourcefulness, responsibility and protectiveness towards loved ones. And the fact they they have vulnerabilities and flaws and go through depression and PTSD due to their traumatic experiences does not make them weak - it makes them real and human and relatable, and all the stronger for being able to eventually overcome it. And of course, being complex, vulnerable and flawed is what makes them stronger characters. People calling Sansa stupid and weak for being "girly" is ironic because she is actually one of the strongest and smartest characters in the series. She is traditionally feminine, but that doesn't make her weak. She and Arya are so different, yet both so strong in different ways and such great characters. People who pigeon hole Arya as a "cool tomboy" do her as much disservice as those who dismiss Sansa as "weak and silly girly girl". Arya is more complex than that and she is an incredibly traumatized girl with a dark arc that is as much a subversion of a fantasy trope as Sansa's.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I just cannot understand why the youtuber is defending Dawn Summers. She always gets herself into trouble, needing Buffy's rescue everytime and never learning or being punished for getting in the way. She's a weak character, because she doesn't learn, she doesn't feel guilt, she just repeats an idiotic behaviour in service of the plot, instead of evolving her character.
THIS VIDEO. 🙌 It blows my mind how often the "I'm not like other girls trope" is used in contexts meant to be empowering to women when it inherently suggests that women and femininity are inferior.
When I saw the thumbnail, my immediate thought was "if you say Sansa is weak, so help me god...". Huge relief. Thank you! ❤ I also hate the stereotype that a mentally ill or traumatized person is weak. Like, deal with PTSD, anxiety disorder, depression etc. for a week, and tell me again if people who go through this for years are weak.
First time viewer. I'm a GoT TV show enthusiast, and the Sansa as a weak female character thumbnail captured me. Nice argument, Rowan Ellis. I'll be sure to remember this when I launch my GoT channel.
Oh my god I love everything about this video. ALL OF MY FEELINGS. S5 and Dawn and Sansa and Kaylee and all of it. YES. Strength/weakness of characters is a lot more complex than physicality. It's good writing. It's writing whole, entire people.
YES!! I squashed my girlyness throughout my teenage years as I thought that is not how I become a strong female. I hated myself for being easily emotional when all the women in media I looked up to were emotionless. This is even a beef I have within Harry Potter as both Hermione and Ginny are commented as not crying much or often and this is a great boon to their characters. Cho and Lavendar are looked down upon for their emotions but at crunch time they are both hugely intelligent and brave women who are equal to Hermione and Ginny.
The only stupid thing that Cho did/thought is tat she thought Hermione and Harry was a thing (girl/boy friendship don't exist and nothing that that they did was remotely romantic) and I wouldn't call Lavender hugely smart when she believe in everything that Trelawly said when it's obvious bs, is very gossipy and was attracted to Ron only because of his sudden popularity and even him being poisened?!! But otherwise I agree with you.
*Wrong:* Adding physical strength/martial prowess to female characters = adding "male" characteristics to a female character. I don't think this is exclusively defined as a "male" thing to begin with. *Correct:* Adding physical strength to female characters and calling it a day makes for boring characters. Adding powers to a character of ANY GENDER and developing no other aspect of that character is boring: just because one adds a female gender on top of said character doesn't excuse anything.
There is such a difference between strong female characters and well written female characters. What people actually like are well-written female characters, it just so happens that many well-written female characters are "strong" in ways that people can understand. I LOVE Dawn. So many people I've talked to about it seem to hate that she came in and 'messed up the Summers family dynamic', but that's exactly what I love about her. She made Buffy an even more believable character because of the new family dynamic. Sure she's a bit annoying and she doesn't do much at first, but clearly if that's the worst part about her, you've never had a younger sister.
Most characters, period, in popular fiction are people who are "strong" in ways that people can understand. I think it has more to do with genre convention than anything else, since people expect their heroes to take the initiative and kick some ass in most pulpy media. I guess if we talked more about art house films and more highbrow literature we would get more well-written characters of both genders who don't fit the stereotypical "strong, heroic" tropes, but in stories about vampire slayers and post-apocalyptic dystopias this is what you get.
Why are you guys so obsessed with strong female characters? There are girls in the world that are not strong at all, and this cannot be a reason for not including them in the book. I am currently writing a story in which the main female character is a bad person, strictly speaking. She is not strong or brave - she hides behind others and makes their lives change for worse. And I still think she is worth writing about. Being a bad person, she pays for her bad decisions. Seriously, have you never met weak people?
I think the problem is the word, strong. People seem to think it refers to the strength of the character not the strength of the writing. Hence they see the word and they give us action girls. Which can be interesting (Like Buffy) but have a very bad hit/miss ratio.
I think they mean strong as in well written (as in not weak writing). People don't like weak characters because they're boring. They want them to be strong (not necessarily physically, just well written).
Not to be rude or anything but have you actually watched the video? She is literally talking about the misconception that strong characters are automatically good and / or physically strong characters. Strong simply refers to the writing. I think katniss in the hungergames triology is an incredible example for that: she is not rly a good person, she is flawed in very realistic ways und I as a reader do not agree with every decision made. Her character is "strong" because of this (meaning the good writing) and not because of her physical strength. But as soon as she suffers from PTSD in the 3rd book a lot of ppl stop regarding her as a strong character. This is again due to the already mentioned misconception. In my eyes it's simply a misuse of the word
THANK YOUUU for redeeming Katniss Everdeen, in the book it was so well described how traumatized she was, which is quite rare in these types of books, usually it is never adressed
That's Why i hate so much when queen guinevere is written as a warrior Woman: it authomatically means that she has to be masculine in order to be Strong. This Also erases all the strong women throughout history that are strong while remaining within a "feminine" appearence. Isabella d'Este and Lucrezia Borgia were strong because they were intelligent, they didn't need to wield a sword to be. Lucrezia did even negotiate her last marriage, picking up the best candidate to suit her pursue of authonomy from her family and negotiating the whole thing by herself, winning the hand of Alfonso d'este by her wits and political prowess.
I'd add Eleanor of Aquitaine to the list too. One of the many others of the British monarchy and someone who established a lot of courtly love traditions. There's also Elizabeth I who never actually fought and was mostly opposed to wars for the simple pragmatic reason they were expensive.
I'd argue that Buffy's ability to forgive people who did dreadful things to her is a strength but many characterise it as weakness or even worse still a bad example.
I only recently watched all of GoT. I thought Sansa was very strong. During her marriage to Geoffrey she survived by keeping a face on the whole time, any question as to how she was doing was answered with ‘the king is my true love and I have never been happier’ and she never showed the cracks.
Agreed. Sansa makes adjustments in an environment that gives her few options and little control over her circumstances. For me the best thing about Sansa is that she learns and grows and changes.
There's a great trope on TV tropes called Captain Peacock of effeminate or just foppish men who kick ass. There's also this character in the Dragon Age computer game who is built like a brick outhouse and likes beating up dragons who likes pink and hot chocolate with marshmallows.
I was so ready to be angry at this video for completely missing the point of strong female characters, (since the picture was, in fact, Sansa) and ready to mount defenses for actual, legit, strong characters--- then I realized you're saying everything I was going to say. You put it very eloquently too. XDDD Thanks for this video.
I agree with you so, so much. Sansa's storyline is one of my absolute favourites because she makes the best of her circumstances and her every move is for survival. This opposed to Bella Swan, who makes one decision in the entire series ("Be with Edward") and puts herself unnecessarily in danger several times as a result. Bella lets things happen to her; Sansa remains passive but is aware of every little thing that goes on around her, and takes action where and when she can.
I haven't read the books, only seen the TV show, but Sansa is hella strong. Like i've said before, she's like the other side of the Cercei coin..they go through similar things, but Sansa changes for the better and is a better person for it.
I absolutely love Sansa. I think her character is really realistic. She was raised to be a lady and she acts in that manner. At the beginning she's a bit naive, but what could one expect from a 11 year old (or 13 in the show)? She has grown so much as a character.
I love both Sansa and Arya Stark. I understand that at first Sansa seams as a weak character but she is actually the norm of female endurance. She goes through a lot . The only thing that keeps her going is her personal strength . If you compare her to Theon he collapsed the moment he was mutilated (justifiably who wouldn't ) but instead of breaking like he did Sansa pulled herself together again and again. Other girls may had committed suicide .
Ahhh YES!! People have been bugging and rolling their eyes at me just because I love Sansa Stark who you guessed it is seen as a weak female character which I was actually rolling my eyes at Wonderful discussion with a very important message loved it!!!
It's interesting that the shows you mentioned all have ensembles of females characters, and the one who gets picked out as being the 'weak' one is the one which just happens to most fit the 'frivalous girly' character, even though all the female characters are well written. For example, in Firefly you have Zoe who is the woman in a man's world, then you have Inari who is the sex appeal, the adult femininity. Kaylee is the girly femininity. She's confident in her sexuality but she isn't sexy in the way Inari is. She wears overalls with pink tops, likes frilly dresses and colourful umbrellas, as well as being great at a job which she loves.
Actually in BTVS all the girls were "girly" so to speak. Even Faith who was probably the "butchest" one had a sexy bad girl thing, leather and red lipstick etc... but she was almost always fully made up with her hair wavy, sexy cut off tops, etc...
Rapunzel - Likes Art, is super naive, wears pink, likes cute things, wears flowers in her hair, isn't physically very strong, sings songs and dances - IS A STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER.
I have a xena warrior princess t-shirt and hoody that says I am a princess AND a warrior which i find really cool like you can be both feminine AND strong at the same time you don't necessarily have to be one or the other
*I really wish you would have pointed out some reasons why you thought Dawn was strong.* I disliked her throughout most of the series because she really was weak. She was written as weak on purpose. She was basically the polar opposite of Buffy. Where Buffy was strong she was weak. She was a teenager who wasn't a slayer: weak physically. She was the younger sibling. She didn't have the mental guards that Buffy did (from being the Slayer) so she broke down more often; see cutting herself, stealing, and complaining that she wasn't even a Potential. And she never made it a priority to become something more then what she was. That was the biggest thing for me. She never pushed Buffy to let her learn to be a Slayer (until it was basically too late), she never pushed Willow to learn magic, and she never did anything else useful. She was a hindrance on the entire Gang, and that, as a plot point is fine, but it doesn't make her a strong female character. And that's fine! As a side note, if you want a character who grows past their "weakness" (like Sansa Stark), check out Xander. He started out as the underdog, esp when Willow started to learn magic. And he ended up saving the world and being an awesome character despite his crappy attitude early on and his lack of anything supernatural. I feel like that's why they didn't make Dawn grow as a character like that, because we already had Xander. My favorite Dawn moment ("Potential") was when Xander was telling her that she didn't have to be special to be extraordinary.
I just found your channel a few days ago and I love your videos! And this idea of a weak female character that is only weak because she is a "girly" girl is soo annoying!
I mean I hate Dawn because she was written as a plot device and not actually given character development until later seasons. She also is very annoying which is kind of the point cuz she's supposed to be a younger sibling but I could never relate to her even as a younger sister. there are other reasons why season 5 is great but I wouldn't say the introduction of dawn as one of them
You hit the nail right on the head. I've been saying the same thing for a long time. I never got why stereotypical "girly" things were seen as bad just because it's seen as something girls generally enjoy. I'm a girl who likes heavy metal and progressive rock, but I also love perfume and wearing dresses. I hate sport but I like video games. People just need to let people like whatever they want, whether it's perceived as being girly or not.
Love this video! I love Game of Thrones and Buffy. I think Sansa is a very complex character. I think Sansa is strong mentally, because she has a lot to deal with. She may not be physically strong, but I like that it's not all about physical strength and mental strength is just as good. And Dawn just has so many things going on, it's no wonder she had the attitude she did and on top of that, being a teenager.
Oh my god Rowan I am so glad we discovered each other. Can I first just say - Buffy basically shaped who I am in my formative years and has had so much influence on who I am as a person. Second I cannot agree with you more. I always feel like most of the "strong" female characters portrayed in popular media are women who are stripped of their femininity. I often get this in my life too because I'm into computers and technology, people say "that's so awesome, you're not like a typical girl." And I just think "what's wrong with being a typical girl?" I also really like hello kitty and and pink lipstick, does that make me less respectable? P.S. I love Kaylee in every way. Subbed and keep it up girl!
Too bad that nearly all the strong female characters in modern movies like the new "Star Wars" (I wanna put it in quotation because it disgusts me so much) movies are strong or overpowered with no build up and training a.s.o. Rey in Star Wars for example.. She is just stupidly insanely overpowered 2 days after she even KNEW about the force. Even the strongest characters of the entire franchise took months/years to even slightly do what she does with ease. The problem here is not her becoming that strong, it is HOW she does it. And this "how" is not explained whatsoever. It is just "because". I think it is sad that movies forcefully integrate political messages and disregard the whole story and logic behind the movies. It is okay to have strong female characters, but strength is earned and worked for or comes with a price. It does not honor or put any value to the character if there is close to zero character development. Just shove it in like: "oh women can be strong, too." What's next? "We need a 130kg woman that beats up every strong character to ever exist with 1 Hand, can fly and shoots lasers out of her eyes!"
I love the writing of Sansa. I love how GRRM taught me to forgive her for succumbing to the role that was sold to her in stories. I was judging her actions in the first novel by their outcomes, not understanding her motivations from an empathetic stance. However, seeing her actually learn, and actually put the world together on her own despite all she suffered, taught me a new kind of strength. A very universal one, endurance. She remained a lady despite having all expectations of that life destroyed. She's amazing.
For me I personally like 'weak' female characters more than the prophesied independent/strong woman because the strong women are rarely shown/written in a realistic way and the weak ones are less judgemental and have better story arcs.
I think the one fault though with effeminate characters, is it their written so uselessly. Like they're damsels in distress. I think character has to have some masculine and some feminine traits to be an interesting character. Masculine and feminine aren't really tied to male or female, just associated. Can I get character really interesting they have probably has a little bit of the opposite in order for them to feel well rounded and useful. Qualities are considered effeminate, like innocence and kindness, make a character easily manipulated. However adding a little bit of cruelty, or decisiveness what is a mass than quality helps..conversely, having a character that is overly analytical, and mean makes a character obnoxious a one-sided unless you flush them out a little bit with compassion, kindness, or some kind of humanity which is often associated with more feminine traits.
This is why I love characters like april kepner and olivia dunham, I mean they are quite badass at times, but most of their character is set around using their emotions and that isn't seen as weakness like many people portray it to be, they see their emotions and kindness as a strength and it is beautiful
This is why I am loving watching the Handmaid's Tale (even though it's kind of a masochistic undertaking to endure it). You really get into the mind of the protagonist, she's a complex characters, full of flaws. She swings between moments of defiance and cool calculation to improve her lot, then swings to moments of self-doubt, giving in to the pressures around her. You watch her attempts at suppressing her empathy and distancing herself as a form of self-protection, then see her break and get flooded with emotion. Her interactions with men are, when possible, on her own terms, but also see the inevitable effects of being abused. You also get to see in Mrs Waterford another complex character, a woman who is strong and smart, and yet for religious reasons has accepted being controlled by her husband and promoting a society that enslaves other women. You see how she sees herself as above others in the hierarchy and abuses her power. Women can be cruel selfish villains with complex motives too.
Thank you SO much for this video! I totally agree with this. I always used to hate the idea of "strong" female characters, because I thought it meant like physically strong - but I'm just starting to see that the definition doesn't mean that at all. Females absolutely shouldn't have to be unfeminine to be strong and empowering, and it's something that's so easy to forget! I hate how in books like the Famous Five series, George is seen as the feminist one because she hates being a girl - like, she can be who she likes, but girls who like being girly are JUST as valid and "strong". When you think about gender stereotypes - like that the man goes off and has the adventures, and the woman stays home and looks after the kids and does the cooking - who's role is more important, and vital to society? Maybe there should be more emphasis on strong male characters who recognise that and are willing to listen and learn from the females.
I think one of the issues with Dawn as a character is that they originally planned to have her be 11 or 12, and they had started writing her that way. They aged the character up when they cast Michelle Trachtenberg, but some of her behaviours come across a bit too young for a 15 year old. She was also not set up to be very sympathetic: she's introduced as may-or-may-not-be-evil late addition to the cast, always fighting with our lead and the reason we're given to care about her is 'she's the key'. That's not great but that's on the writing, not on Dawn as a character or on Trachtenberg as an actor.
I found her a very convincing younger sibling, being one myself I often found myself empathizing with dawn. Also she added something to Buffy as a character that I felt had been lost along the way.
how could he say dawn was a weak character!?! your friend needs to watch season 5 again, dawn was an all powerful key that unlocked the interdimensional walls to every parallel universe, if anything she was actually the strongest character in the season!
Absolutely amazing video! I think I've never watched someone in UA-cam talking about this. I love Dawn because as you say she doesn't have paranormal/supernatural abilities in a dangerous and supernatural world. I believe she has a strong character and personality and people must remember that she did an exorcism at her house by herself freeing her mother from a demonic entity (I think she also killed a vampire once). I also love that season because of Glory. That a demonic deity can be female is amazing and the best thing is: She is quite a feminine character but that doesn't make her less dangerous or powerful. There are also other feminine/non fighter female characters who I love, like Daphne and Velma from Scooby Doo and Elle Woods from Legally Blonde. Daphne can have a black belt and still being feminine and Velma (even when she is not feminine) is not a very physically strong character but is very intelligent and emotionally strong. Elle Woods is very intelligent, emotionally strong and perseverant and she is very feminine. Femininity rocks! ;)
Dawn as a character was fine, I just didn't like her. She was a whiny brat, almost the entire way through. She annoyed me, which tells me she was a great character; she made me feel something for her, even if it was mostly irritation!
I think Dawn suffered from a bit of weak writing. They sort of got stuck in the trap of younger annoying sister and rarely explored other aspects of her but when they did I enjoyed it. She wasn't my favorite but I think she was interesting and I wish she got better writing.
Thank you! This video rocks! And is it just me or is it also just as annoying when creators do this to men? Or when they seem to think that female characters have to make up for their physical weakness by being warriors-but-with-Magic! which makes it soooooo much better
Sansa is an annoying character, a frustrating character, a selfish character, but she survives some really brutal stuff. Nothing weak about that, or her story. It is a believable story and her actions make sense given her situation.
Not annoying at all! Many like you still have her in a misconception of s1 where she was just a normal teenage high born girl who happened to love love stories and wanted to marry a beautiful prince. We all girls wanted that at some point of our childhood and early teenage years, but with different perspectives, and somehow we judge Sansa for being actually relatable? Anyways, that changed after episode 10 of that season, and her armour until she escapes King's Landing is still playing that girl who believes in fairytales and wants to marry a prince/king. She was very innocent of many topics, like sex, fighting and many other things. She learned from the best and worst. She may not know how to fight, or dracarys the shit out of any human who doesn't bend the knee (which surprises me many consider this behavior as heroic), but she is now acting as a real queen, she is now a political mind, and she is doing great. That is a strong female character.
Love your voice, love your accent, love your explanations, love how in 2014 you were talking about those things when I was so deep down in the closet in couldn't even breathe. Thank god I found your channel.
Oh, goodness, this video gives me all the feels. I love it. Thank you so much for pointing out that "strong female characters" depends on writing, not physical ability.
Personally couldn't stand Dawn. I just found her annoying. I get that she was meant to be a teenage girl in an impossible situation but I couldn't relate to her in any way. TBH the only times I ever thought about her as a strong character was when she stopped her zombie mum from coming, those moments before Buffy died and in season 7 - not because she physically fought but because she grew up and knew her limits. I respected her more in her researcher role than when she tried to fight. On Sansa, I'm half and half. I mostly like her and respect that she kept her head down and endured... but I still find her character hard to support, mostly because I can't see her learning from her mistakes. I still find her too trusting and too naive. There are things that she could do that don't involve like gaining knowledge of those around her either from books or listening to those around her.
Aradia is an oc that is a STRONG female character. Physically she isn’t that strong, she is good at duelling due to constant studying of and practice of magic, but physically unless in her cat form she is a twig who can’t lift much. Unless she uses things like throwing knives/guns she can’t achieve a solid hit (even if she is a Quidditch player and a great one at that). What makes her strong is that she keeps going through everything that happens (her adoptive father has a clinical condition which makes him dangerous monthly, she is mercilessly bullied all throughout her education, she has to make decisions which end up making everyone hate her whilst she knows she has to make those decisions to keep her family safe, she also loses her biological parents, her adoptive parents, her adoptive brother). She is also queer (ace panromantic) and she dates 2 gals before settling for someone who feels like family to her and who calms her because this girl has been through hell and back and has ptsd and numerous other mental issues. She is girly though. She likes dresses, heels, makeup, but she doesn’t buy them because she doesn’t have money to spare for them. She’d never drag another girl who likes frills, she would drag a girl who thinks she is better bc she is a tomboy or something because she tends to be ruthless a lot of the time.
Was going to continue lurking and enjoying without comment but then I realised you're wearing a Pits and Perverts t-shirt. Holy shit, Pride is one of the best films I've ever seen and I saw it 6 times in the theatres - I live in Australia, that shit is expensive. Even my brother liked it and he doesn't really care to watch many English language films because he's pretentious like that. Anyway, adore you, keep doing what you're doing. I watched the Agent Carter video first because Hayley Atwell retweeted it and I subscribed halfway in to watching it. You perfectly articulate everything I already think about this stuff so it's lovely to have some affirmation. Also it's nice to be able to share your videos to people who don't quite get it yet. X
season 5 was awesome, perhaps only beaten by season 6. Dawn was awesome Michelle Trachtenberg and Sarah Michelle Gellar really sold the sibling relation. As a younger sibling I felt so much for Dawn.
Oh well, I'm totally with you, Season 5 was Ace - I mean, it had a mad Goddess as Big Bad, who also happened to be funny. Given it had one of the lesser opening Episodes, and Dawn's introduction may not have been the finest as she appears pretty stereotypical to begin with - but we may forget there that Dawn wasn't a real human to start with, but a created being, so the fault probably did lie with her creators - some italian (?) monk dudes - to begin with. And her girl crush on Xander of all people was fun. If you want to talk bad, look at Season 6, which meandered along for the first half with seemingly none of the writers really having an idea what to do with Buffy's character now that she had been dead.
Very good thoughts. Though I would like to add something. I think what a female character does is not entirely unimportant. I think we think female characters who do things that are traditionally attributed to men are strong female characters because it goes against traditional gender norms, and it's also important to have that kind of diversity. Having strong female characters in the literal sense of the word is also very important, but I think you hinted at it in the video too. I think a very important tool for feminist writing is to show that a female character is not interested in feminine roles of their respective society, and indeed I think this has been done a lot of times, rightfully so. I am not saying all feminist writing has to be like that and it's a necessity for a strong female character. But it is one of the most important tools to criticize and question gender norms. The second thing I would like to add is that I think you are not necessarily devaluing traditionally female things or behaviors when you dislike some of them. I do actually think there are some things that are traditionally associated with girls that are rubbish, but I wouldn't say they are because they are "girly". Just as much, there are some things traditionally attributed to guys that I find stupid. It's just because some of these things are superficial or selfish or somehow just bad behaviors in a general sense.
Rowan, Thank you for publishing this video. It has given me clarity in my own writing. Appreciate your clear, direct definitions of what a strong character is. Love your humor!
I think I probably got whiplash from all the nodding-along I did during this video. All the thumbs up. I'm probably going to post this to my fb. I've heard all the Katniss-slamming lately, calling her "weak" for reacting REALISTICALLY to mental trauma, and it's been driving me up the wall. Like you said. Bull. Shit.
The first thing you do is mention Buffy and my heart jumps oh my god. YES. And I totally agree with allllll your points here, you're truly preaching to the choir. All my friends hate Sansa and it infuriates me to no end. Fantastic video with well explained arguments once again! (also, because my inner Buffy fan is jumping around in circles, why is season 5 your favourite? I also love 'The Body', but are there any more particular elements/episodes you love?)
5:48 Heart of the action? I would say find themselves in interesting situations. Take Kaylee for an example, even if she wasn't a mechanic and she found herself on Serenity, she'd have to cope with the situations there which would introduce her to things outside the prerogative of the archetype she started out as and force her to develop new traits from the situations she found herself in.
First video of yours i've ever seen. Dont know why i pushed play as I just saw the pic of Sansa and the title and thought 'oh crap here we go again' but no, you said everything I've never been able to formulate. And your last gesture made me laugh out loud - thanks :)
That can also, applied too male charters. Like I remember people saying Moon knight sucks as character because he wasn’t able too fight. Even though I consider him one of most complex protagonist.
Whenever this topic comes up, we need to explicitly say what we mean by "strong" or "weak". Are we talking about strongly written and weakly written? Or do we mean mentally strong or weak? Or do we mean strong and weak in terms of physical strength or practical abilities? We can talk about any of the 3, but the first 2 are more interesting to me. Too often I see entire conversations where the participants are not decisive about which definitions they are using.
yes! very good points. When women complain about not having enough 'strong female roles' it's not about characters that have no failures, vices, or negative emotions. In fact those often make a character more interesting and believable. The problem is poorly written so-called "characters" that have no real inner life, personality, realistic reactions and opinions, who are totally replaceable by any other attractive model. When men write "strong female characters" they just take the usual hot girl trope and add martial arts skills. No, dude, that's not what we want to see! We want to see actual developed protagonists, ideally written by women who might be less likely to just automatically write the usual hot girl trope.
With Dawn, at first I was super confused because she was in the theme song of episode 1 of season 5 xD Me and my sister thought we missed an episode or something! I thought she was pretty cool with the whole Key thing but then the actress got really old really fast for me .-. I dunno, I think it was just her voice that bothered me. And with Sansa, she is my favourite Song of Ice and Fire character
5:27 actually that could be really hard, because from certain points of view almost any trait could be seen as masculine. Just like almost any trait from a certain point of view can be seen as feminine.
I didn't like Dawn much because she was written as whiny and made some really bad and stupid decisions considering she knew what was up with Buffy, but at the same time she did deal with alot of loss of her mom and Buffy then Tara and then the whole lack of self identity when she found out she was the key.. I'm actually kind of sad for the kid now that I look back. The quote of Buffy saying "Dawn's in trouble? It must be Tuesday." Kind of summed up much of the Dawn experience for me at the time. I actually am not even that big of a fan of the Buffy character for various reasons but SMG is a great actress and pulled it off. I did enjoy her portrayal. My favourite character I think was Anya, though also Willow, Tara and Faith are so full of greatness. "What are they doing?" *Dawn and Anya dancing with money in hand* "The dance of capitalistic superiority." There was so much coded gayness in that show between almost all the female characters but especially Buffy and Faith, and in some could arguably say Buffy and Willow. I actually wrote a femslash fanfiction a long time ago with a Willow and Anya pairing because of the season 7 episode where the rest of the Scooby gang was invisible to Willow and Anya had to help her.. there was a carpet joke.. anywho love these videos. :)
I LOVE this so much. I always liked Dawn and didn't understand people saying she was annoying and weak. I clicked on this thinking you were going to talk about Sansa being weak which would've made me disappointed but I'm glad you agree that she is definitely a strong female character in her own unique way. I actually love Sansa because of her flaws and it makes me relate to her. I honestly don't understand how anyone could blame her for her choices when she has not only survived such trauma, she eventually became stronger because of it.
I started noticing more the "traditionally feminine" characters in series and movies after game of thrones made a mess of Sansa's character. Using rape and torture as a plot device so much on one single character throughout several seasons is total and utter shite.
I've been watching your videos for the past month, and I absolutely love your content. Specifically this one, since in my own book, I've got a lead of who would be considered by those folk "a weak female character" for just being a regular 11 year old girl. I've never described strength from characters as being purely physical. Strong ones for me are ones who struggle but still persevere despite it. That can of course, come in many different ways. Sansa is a great example and one of my fave characters in Game of Thrones, in the same way I love characters like Mabel from Gravity Falls or Ingrid Third from Fillmore. I adore characters who remain themselves and don't just have to be "the cool" character to be interesting. Your channel's fantastic, Rowan. Glad I subscribed.
I love Jo character from "Little Women". I never thought about this as masculine way. I love strong self confident lady character either in book, movie or tv show. This encourage me to do whatever I want as a women, and I don't need a man.
Thank you soooo much for this thoughful video ! :D You managed to phrase perfectly something that I was frustrated to be unable to express, the fact that it is tiring that a "strong female character" is generally depicted as a stereotypical male in a woman's body. Thank you so so much, I'm so glad I'll now have a video to send to friends when I'm struggling to express that ^^ By the way, I've recently discovered you (either trhough Akhilah, or LucyMoon, or SuperStamStuff maybe ? can't remember sorry) and your videos are AMAZING !
also the interesting thing about Arya is that she actually says in the book that she admires her sister's talents in things that are expected of women in that time, Arya actually recognizes her own short comings in those areas
Just started exploring your channel, i kinda died when you mentioned In The Flesh I love that show so much and it's not that well known! Awesome video too!
Omgggg this is actually so disgusting that people feel the need to tear down women and girls for liking things are seen as feminine. They’re called feminine for a reason. If all female characters were badass super strong people, how would other girls feel about liking what they like. Especially now it’s such a thing to like the outcast (which is okay) but to hate the people who aren’t bad or weak or boring but just are more common to come across (which isn’t). I probably haven’t worded this right but I hope everyone understands what I mean so we can stop this once and for all.
I know! I've had people talk about one of my favourite characters in earlier seasons of a show as being annoying because she was cheerful and "bumble-ey" and awkward but... I was like that too.... and it's like.... do you hate me? Nothing wrong with being just passionate and friendly and not being able to kill a man with your pinky. It's not always a Kill Bill story ;) Thanks for this, you rock.
It's been a couple years since I rewatched Buffy, but I don't remember Dawn having much of a character arch. I mean... she's essentially an infant in the body of a teenager (both major developmental periods in life)... with all this stuff going on in her environment... and she doesn't seem to change... at all. I know there were storylines for her, but they didn't seem to carry much by way of implications.
Strong female character means well written female character. Not female character that punches. Look at Molly Weasley from the Harry Potter-series: She was a strong female character long before she kicked ass in the finale battle. In the six books before that, she was a wonderfull, well written character, without ever physically fighting! She is not muscullar, she is chubby. She shows a lot of traditionell female traits, like being a fantastic mother or cooking or knitting. Molly Weasley doesn't have to be masculin or physically kick ass to be a wonderfull, well written, strong female charkter! (Sorry, for my bad english!)
It seems so many ppl turn a blind eye to a "strength in character." There is one female character I really like, she is physically weak and Literally NEEDS protection from others at many parts in the series, but that doesn't take away her agency in the story. Her physical weakness also creates interesting scenarios you couldn't easily get with the more powerful characters. She is a fairly feminine character, but that doesn't detract from her character. Despite her physical weakness, she is still trusted by her more powerful peers, she is a proactive player who is able to get things done. She is also the emotional support to the protagonist and many other characters.
EXACTLY! Like Waverly Earp in season one of Wynnona Earp. Just because she wasn't the heir doesn't mean that she wasn't an extremely strong, talented, valuable female character, in my opinion.
I think the word "weak" is better replaced by incompetent. I do love Buffy, because the writers balanced competence and vulnerabilities/shortcomings better than a lot of other showrunners have. I really liked Dawn in Buffy because she added alot more to Buffy's character, and as she grew, she became pretty strong in the sense that she found herself. Something that I don't like is how TV writers have been writing female characters since then. I look at how Andrea from Walking Dead was handled, or all of Ali Larter's characters on Heroes, they were written to fail. I find that, especially in the days of comic book adaptation, we see women being cut down in order to fit their male counter parts narratives. But more specifically to your point, I agree that a character doesn't need super powers, or a black belt to be strong, and yes it is in the writing of the characters, but writing these days has been weird when considering the amount of female characters have been given the incompetent character device. Just the other day, the TV show Supergirl fell into an obvious trap, was beaten, captured, willing gave up her powers (albeit to save a life), was then needed to be rescued. All the while a new male Superhero was introduced to the show, he was impersonate, found the bad guy, saved the day, all in the very same episode. I'm just way more disgruntled over the fact that these characters, yes they do not have to be perfect, have fallen into that incompetence that makes no sense. Also, after her original two close friends fell in love with her, so does the person that she save. This makes me want to tweet angry things, not since Twilight have I felt so upset about writing.
I disagree, Cersei is very incompetent, but still interesting. Catelyn Stark is equally incompetent, but utterly uninteresting. Lana Lang from Smallville was very competent in the latter seasons but about as interesting as chewing on a brick.
Cersei? I think she's more competent than most of her male counterparts. She completely worked her way from the inside out, I think she's very competent. Catelyn was a strong character, she was just victim of circumstance. Incompetent is like Bella from Twilight. lol perfect example.
This is what upsets me so much when people complain about Bubbles from the powerpuff girls, so many people say she is a dumb blonde, but her character is FIVE, and in reality she's just sensitive and loves animals and coloring and still pulls her weight when it comes to fighting, yet because her character is more passive than her sisters, Bubbles gets written off as the stupid one.
Liking Girly things don't make a dumb blonde, if you want a dumb blonde look at how Britta in Community change from season 1 to season 2.
Sierra Melody The best part about Bubbles is when she gets serious and pulls a 180 showing she is capable of being aggressive, but she simply isn't because she'd rather play.
Bubbles is my fave and I could relate to her as a child. I have heard lots of people praising Buttercup as the most badass but for me all 3 were equally badass in their own way. Buttercup was like a fighter - tomboy, probably this is why people liked her more.
Cece_Mich I totally agree.
I hate that, Bubbles is sweet artistic and speaks another language (animal) none of that equals dumb, even though I always felt more represented by Buttercup
I was scared that she was going to bash Sansa Stark. I always viewed Sansa as a Survivor. Young, makes mistakes, must grow, but she survives as most of GoT's "badasses" are killed.
In my opinion strength doesn't come from how tough a character is it's how they take their flaws and learn to live with them.
Very well said!
Someone put this on a t-shirt
Agreed this is also a life lesson as well!
So what are some novels featuring weak female characters that never become strong and just accept their weakness and find peace?
I think people can be weak. If they are weak in life, why they can't be weak in books and other stuff?
Ugh when people say Katniss is "weak" in the last movies - she has PTSD because of her experiences in The Hunger Games. She's showing the symptoms from Catching Fire, and it's exacerbated in Mockingjay because she's been separated from Peeta and is forced to perform for the resistance.
Sansa is also my favourite character. She goes along with tradition and what she is meant to do from her gender but also uses those stereotypes to gain power and manoeuvre herself into positions of power. It's entirely the only thing she can do given the situations she's placed in by men. Sansa also has a clear character arc where she grows from a child into a young adult, which I enjoy watching.
I'm not sure I agree Sansa meant to do that, but she along of the Starks knew when to keep her head down and her mouth shut. I admire wisdom more than bravery. She kept herself alive, watched, listened and eventually learned enough to play the game herself.
I get why katniss acted the way she did in the last book and I don’t think she’s weak for it, but it’s always kind of felt like she grinds to a halt in that book (or at least goes a lot slower) and doesn’t really... want to do anything? As the protagonist?
Sansa is my favorite GoT character too 💗
weird how so many people think that a stronger characters is one who can lift a weigh
Or they talk of stuff like willpower (now that is one idea we could do without what is even willpower supposed to mean?), but the point is that they miss the fact that it's the writing that is weak or strong.
An understandable error, since the term "strength" is associated with powerlifting and bodybuilding. "Determined," "brave," or "strong-willed" would better describe heroic behavior.
This thing about being a "strong woman" and never being allowed to show emotion really pisses me off, great vid!
Emotion should always be dampered to be considered strong. happiness and confidence should always be more outward to be considered strong
Watching this 2 years late but YESsS. I will defend Sansa to my deathbed.
I watched a review of season 6 of GoT by a popular female reviewer and she literally said that Sansa "deserved to be punished" for [spoilers if you haven't seen it yet] going behind Jon's back and saving the fucking day. The whole season repeatedly proved that Jon is not great in a leadership position and is more of a soldier and fighter and he said so himself that Sansa should be leader. Yet here we go with King of the North Jon Snow lol. Honestly, if you hate a female character so much for her femininity, cleverness, and going against a man's "authority" to get shit done and think she should be "punished," then you probably hate women.
+marinashutup Punished?? I have no idea how anyone could get that from this season dear lord! And yeah King of the North ending was such bollocks, Jon doesn't know what he's doing
Jon Snow and (sorry, not sorry) Daenerys are the most overrated characters! They are plain, simple and you can almost predict their next move (the same with Aria). From the Starks I loved Catelyn Stark and now Sansa, because they can make the hard choices and they can survive (especially Sansa) in the most brutal environment. And I do also enjoy Cersei Lannister - one of the most complex characters in GoT. :D
marinashutup fuck you
Same
1:07 Funny how Xanders is an ordinary teenage boy throughout half the show and no one calls him a weak character.
Actually, IIRC a lot of people disliked Xander exactly for that reason and the show itself engages with that idea in several episodes, including the Zeppo.
Caeres I think more people dislike Xander because he's a dick to some of the other chracters on occasion especially both the vampire poster boys.
SANSA YES. I have gotten so much shit over the last how ever many years because since season 1 i have been rooting for sansa. She has always intrigued me and as we've watched her grow up and learn more about the surroundings that she's been put in oh my god! I love her so much! I also love cersei even though she's not necessarily someone i root for, i also find the way she handles her own power in a world dominated by men - hands down amazing. Thanks for this video!
i disagree about sansa, at least the book version (which is the only one I know) she never voices any opinion, she agrees to being the puppet to little fingers plan despise having very strong feelings agisnt it. I think her character is written in a way that seems void, and I get that is becuase of her upbringing but in 5 books we see hardly any charcter develpoment at all, considering the amount of shit that she is put through. Idk, she just doesnt seem as realistic as many of other characters like her mom
Her mom that voices her opinion all the time yet never ever makes a correct decision. Yeah Sansa may be the meekest of the Starks but she does what she needs to survive.
Omg i feel the same
DUDE as much as i love arya stark if by any chance they switched places, arya wouldnt make it a day without getting beheaded. She wouldnt make it through all that propriety and politics
Same here!! I was rooting for Sansa big time since the moment she thought about pushing Joffrey off that bridge before Sandor pulled her back. That moment I realized she was much stronger than she let on. It's very telling that someone like Jaime (who I love btw) can start off as an absolutely evil person in the show, trying to murder a child, but people accept his growth and redemption throughout the show. Yet Sansa started off as a whiny spoiled child (not evil, just an immature kid) and yet people can't get past that despite all her character growth. Our society holds a lot of contempt for young feminine girls, it's sad.
Well, I'm a guy and *I* can't fight, and *I* can't use magic, and I for one do not consider myself a weak female character...
... I hope.
^^
Buffy, Katniss, Sansa and Arya are all among my favorite characters of all time (book versions only in case of Sansa and Arya - neither Stark sister is well written on the show, and Sansa has particularly been inconsistently characterized and generally badly served by the show). Because they are all complex, developed and relatable Buffy and Katniss may be able to physically fight, bur that's not what makes them strong as characters, or as people. It's other qualities that make them strong as people - like a sense of right and wrong, compassion, resilience, out of the box thinking, resourcefulness, responsibility and protectiveness towards loved ones. And the fact they they have vulnerabilities and flaws and go through depression and PTSD due to their traumatic experiences does not make them weak - it makes them real and human and relatable, and all the stronger for being able to eventually overcome it. And of course, being complex, vulnerable and flawed is what makes them stronger characters.
People calling Sansa stupid and weak for being "girly" is ironic because she is actually one of the strongest and smartest characters in the series. She is traditionally feminine, but that doesn't make her weak. She and Arya are so different, yet both so strong in different ways and such great characters. People who pigeon hole Arya as a "cool tomboy" do her as much disservice as those who dismiss Sansa as "weak and silly girly girl". Arya is more complex than that and she is an incredibly traumatized girl with a dark arc that is as much a subversion of a fantasy trope as Sansa's.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I just cannot understand why the youtuber is defending Dawn Summers. She always gets herself into trouble, needing Buffy's rescue everytime and never learning or being punished for getting in the way. She's a weak character, because she doesn't learn, she doesn't feel guilt, she just repeats an idiotic behaviour in service of the plot, instead of evolving her character.
THIS VIDEO. 🙌 It blows my mind how often the "I'm not like other girls trope" is used in contexts meant to be empowering to women when it inherently suggests that women and femininity are inferior.
When I saw the thumbnail, my immediate thought was "if you say Sansa is weak, so help me god...". Huge relief. Thank you! ❤
I also hate the stereotype that a mentally ill or traumatized person is weak. Like, deal with PTSD, anxiety disorder, depression etc. for a week, and tell me again if people who go through this for years are weak.
Psychophobia in a nutshell, and here with the intersection with misogyny and agism.
First time viewer. I'm a GoT TV show enthusiast, and the Sansa as a weak female character thumbnail captured me. Nice argument, Rowan Ellis. I'll be sure to remember this when I launch my GoT channel.
Oh my god I love everything about this video. ALL OF MY FEELINGS. S5 and Dawn and Sansa and Kaylee and all of it. YES. Strength/weakness of characters is a lot more complex than physicality. It's good writing. It's writing whole, entire people.
SweeneySays Thanks :D Glad you liked it.
YES!! I squashed my girlyness throughout my teenage years as I thought that is not how I become a strong female. I hated myself for being easily emotional when all the women in media I looked up to were emotionless. This is even a beef I have within Harry Potter as both Hermione and Ginny are commented as not crying much or often and this is a great boon to their characters. Cho and Lavendar are looked down upon for their emotions but at crunch time they are both hugely intelligent and brave women who are equal to Hermione and Ginny.
The only stupid thing that Cho did/thought is tat she thought Hermione and Harry was a thing (girl/boy friendship don't exist and nothing that that they did was remotely romantic) and I wouldn't call Lavender hugely smart when she believe in everything that Trelawly said when it's obvious bs, is very gossipy and was attracted to Ron only because of his sudden popularity and even him being poisened?!! But otherwise I agree with you.
*Wrong:* Adding physical strength/martial prowess to female characters = adding "male" characteristics to a female character. I don't think this is exclusively defined as a "male" thing to begin with.
*Correct:* Adding physical strength to female characters and calling it a day makes for boring characters. Adding powers to a character of ANY GENDER and developing no other aspect of that character is boring: just because one adds a female gender on top of said character doesn't excuse anything.
There is such a difference between strong female characters and well written female characters. What people actually like are well-written female characters, it just so happens that many well-written female characters are "strong" in ways that people can understand.
I LOVE Dawn. So many people I've talked to about it seem to hate that she came in and 'messed up the Summers family dynamic', but that's exactly what I love about her. She made Buffy an even more believable character because of the new family dynamic. Sure she's a bit annoying and she doesn't do much at first, but clearly if that's the worst part about her, you've never had a younger sister.
Most characters, period, in popular fiction are people who are "strong" in ways that people can understand. I think it has more to do with genre convention than anything else, since people expect their heroes to take the initiative and kick some ass in most pulpy media. I guess if we talked more about art house films and more highbrow literature we would get more well-written characters of both genders who don't fit the stereotypical "strong, heroic" tropes, but in stories about vampire slayers and post-apocalyptic dystopias this is what you get.
Why are you guys so obsessed with strong female characters? There are girls in the world that are not strong at all, and this cannot be a reason for not including them in the book. I am currently writing a story in which the main female character is a bad person, strictly speaking. She is not strong or brave - she hides behind others and makes their lives change for worse. And I still think she is worth writing about. Being a bad person, she pays for her bad decisions. Seriously, have you never met weak people?
I mean... that is literally the point of the video? XD
Not obsessed, strong characters are interesting, regardless of gender.
Met weak people, yes, uninteresting.
I think the problem is the word, strong. People seem to think it refers to the strength of the character not the strength of the writing. Hence they see the word and they give us action girls. Which can be interesting (Like Buffy) but have a very bad hit/miss ratio.
I think they mean strong as in well written (as in not weak writing). People don't like weak characters because they're boring. They want them to be strong (not necessarily physically, just well written).
Not to be rude or anything but have you actually watched the video? She is literally talking about the misconception that strong characters are automatically good and / or physically strong characters. Strong simply refers to the writing. I think katniss in the hungergames triology is an incredible example for that: she is not rly a good person, she is flawed in very realistic ways und I as a reader do not agree with every decision made. Her character is "strong" because of this (meaning the good writing) and not because of her physical strength. But as soon as she suffers from PTSD in the 3rd book a lot of ppl stop regarding her as a strong character. This is again due to the already mentioned misconception. In my eyes it's simply a misuse of the word
THANK YOUUU for redeeming Katniss Everdeen, in the book it was so well described how traumatized she was, which is quite rare in these types of books, usually it is never adressed
Off-topic, I like your necklace. On-topic, I like the points you make in this video that femininity doesn't make a character weak.
That's Why i hate so much when queen guinevere is written as a warrior Woman: it authomatically means that she has to be masculine in order to be Strong. This Also erases all the strong women throughout history that are strong while remaining within a "feminine" appearence. Isabella d'Este and Lucrezia Borgia were strong because they were intelligent, they didn't need to wield a sword to be. Lucrezia did even negotiate her last marriage, picking up the best candidate to suit her pursue of authonomy from her family and negotiating the whole thing by herself, winning the hand of Alfonso d'este by her wits and political prowess.
I'd add Eleanor of Aquitaine to the list too. One of the many others of the British monarchy and someone who established a lot of courtly love traditions. There's also Elizabeth I who never actually fought and was mostly opposed to wars for the simple pragmatic reason they were expensive.
I'd argue that Buffy's ability to forgive people who did dreadful things to her is a strength but many characterise it as weakness or even worse still a bad example.
Oh my God I get so irritated when people criticize Katniss in Mockingjay because of her mental health. Thank you!
I only recently watched all of GoT. I thought Sansa was very strong. During her marriage to Geoffrey she survived by keeping a face on the whole time, any question as to how she was doing was answered with ‘the king is my true love and I have never been happier’ and she never showed the cracks.
Agreed. Sansa makes adjustments in an environment that gives her few options and little control over her circumstances. For me the best thing about Sansa is that she learns and grows and changes.
Anyone who says Dawn is a badly written character has never met a teenage girl. PREACH IT
But seriously, you nailed it. And Buffy is the best. Yes.
Its true. Just think of men with girly traits, they're are considered to be the gutter.
Nah not these days, a male character can be a total fop these days and still work. Though it's still usually the villains.
There's a great trope on TV tropes called Captain Peacock of effeminate or just foppish men who kick ass. There's also this character in the Dragon Age computer game who is built like a brick outhouse and likes beating up dragons who likes pink and hot chocolate with marshmallows.
I was so ready to be angry at this video for completely missing the point of strong female characters, (since the picture was, in fact, Sansa) and ready to mount defenses for actual, legit, strong characters--- then I realized you're saying everything I was going to say. You put it very eloquently too. XDDD
Thanks for this video.
I agree with you so, so much. Sansa's storyline is one of my absolute favourites because she makes the best of her circumstances and her every move is for survival. This opposed to Bella Swan, who makes one decision in the entire series ("Be with Edward") and puts herself unnecessarily in danger several times as a result. Bella lets things happen to her; Sansa remains passive but is aware of every little thing that goes on around her, and takes action where and when she can.
I haven't read the books, only seen the TV show, but Sansa is hella strong. Like i've said before, she's like the other side of the Cercei coin..they go through similar things, but Sansa changes for the better and is a better person for it.
I absolutely love Sansa. I think her character is really realistic. She was raised to be a lady and she acts in that manner. At the beginning she's a bit naive, but what could one expect from a 11 year old (or 13 in the show)? She has grown so much as a character.
I don't know how this came up to my feed in 2019, but hell yes!
I love both Sansa and Arya Stark. I understand that at first Sansa seams as a weak character but she is actually the norm of female endurance. She goes through a lot . The only thing that keeps her going is her personal strength . If you compare her to Theon he collapsed the moment he was mutilated (justifiably who wouldn't ) but instead of breaking like he did Sansa pulled herself together again and again. Other girls may had committed suicide .
Ahhh YES!! People have been bugging and rolling their eyes at me just because I love Sansa Stark who you guessed it is seen as a weak female character which I was actually rolling my eyes at
Wonderful discussion with a very important message loved it!!!
It's interesting that the shows you mentioned all have ensembles of females characters, and the one who gets picked out as being the 'weak' one is the one which just happens to most fit the 'frivalous girly' character, even though all the female characters are well written. For example, in Firefly you have Zoe who is the woman in a man's world, then you have Inari who is the sex appeal, the adult femininity. Kaylee is the girly femininity. She's confident in her sexuality but she isn't sexy in the way Inari is. She wears overalls with pink tops, likes frilly dresses and colourful umbrellas, as well as being great at a job which she loves.
Actually in BTVS all the girls were "girly" so to speak. Even Faith who was probably the "butchest" one had a sexy bad girl thing, leather and red lipstick etc... but she was almost always fully made up with her hair wavy, sexy cut off tops, etc...
Rapunzel - Likes Art, is super naive, wears pink, likes cute things, wears flowers in her hair, isn't physically very strong, sings songs and dances - IS A STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER.
Only me to be screaming my head off in agreement when she said “Bullshit.” YAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
I have a xena warrior princess t-shirt and hoody that says I am a princess AND a warrior which i find really cool like you can be both feminine AND strong at the same time you don't necessarily have to be one or the other
*I really wish you would have pointed out some reasons why you thought Dawn was strong.* I disliked her throughout most of the series because she really was weak. She was written as weak on purpose. She was basically the polar opposite of Buffy. Where Buffy was strong she was weak. She was a teenager who wasn't a slayer: weak physically. She was the younger sibling. She didn't have the mental guards that Buffy did (from being the Slayer) so she broke down more often; see cutting herself, stealing, and complaining that she wasn't even a Potential. And she never made it a priority to become something more then what she was. That was the biggest thing for me. She never pushed Buffy to let her learn to be a Slayer (until it was basically too late), she never pushed Willow to learn magic, and she never did anything else useful. She was a hindrance on the entire Gang, and that, as a plot point is fine, but it doesn't make her a strong female character. And that's fine! As a side note, if you want a character who grows past their "weakness" (like Sansa Stark), check out Xander. He started out as the underdog, esp when Willow started to learn magic. And he ended up saving the world and being an awesome character despite his crappy attitude early on and his lack of anything supernatural. I feel like that's why they didn't make Dawn grow as a character like that, because we already had Xander. My favorite Dawn moment ("Potential") was when Xander was telling her that she didn't have to be special to be extraordinary.
I think she meant that Dawn was not weakly written.
I just found your channel a few days ago and I love your videos! And this idea of a weak female character that is only weak because she is a "girly" girl is soo annoying!
I mean I hate Dawn because she was written as a plot device and not actually given character development until later seasons. She also is very annoying which is kind of the point cuz she's supposed to be a younger sibling but I could never relate to her even as a younger sister. there are other reasons why season 5 is great but I wouldn't say the introduction of dawn as one of them
Great video! I am always frustrated with people who think that being "strong" means that girls act "like" men. Thank you so much!
this video has aged SOO well, I loved your point of view and will keep it mind next time I'm watching/reading something
You hit the nail right on the head. I've been saying the same thing for a long time. I never got why stereotypical "girly" things were seen as bad just because it's seen as something girls generally enjoy.
I'm a girl who likes heavy metal and progressive rock, but I also love perfume and wearing dresses. I hate sport but I like video games. People just need to let people like whatever they want, whether it's perceived as being girly or not.
Love this video! I love Game of Thrones and Buffy. I think Sansa is a very complex character. I think Sansa is strong mentally, because she has a lot to deal with. She may not be physically strong, but I like that it's not all about physical strength and mental strength is just as good. And Dawn just has so many things going on, it's no wonder she had the attitude she did and on top of that, being a teenager.
Oh my god Rowan I am so glad we discovered each other. Can I first just say - Buffy basically shaped who I am in my formative years and has had so much influence on who I am as a person.
Second I cannot agree with you more. I always feel like most of the "strong" female characters portrayed in popular media are women who are stripped of their femininity. I often get this in my life too because I'm into computers and technology, people say "that's so awesome, you're not like a typical girl." And I just think "what's wrong with being a typical girl?" I also really like hello kitty and and pink lipstick, does that make me less respectable?
P.S. I love Kaylee in every way.
Subbed and keep it up girl!
Too bad that nearly all the strong female characters in modern movies like the new "Star Wars" (I wanna put it in quotation because it disgusts me so much) movies are strong or overpowered with no build up and training a.s.o. Rey in Star Wars for example.. She is just stupidly insanely overpowered 2 days after she even KNEW about the force. Even the strongest characters of the entire franchise took months/years to even slightly do what she does with ease.
The problem here is not her becoming that strong, it is HOW she does it.
And this "how" is not explained whatsoever. It is just "because".
I think it is sad that movies forcefully integrate political messages and disregard the whole story and logic behind the movies.
It is okay to have strong female characters, but strength is earned and worked for or comes with a price.
It does not honor or put any value to the character if there is close to zero character development.
Just shove it in like: "oh women can be strong, too."
What's next?
"We need a 130kg woman that beats up every strong character to ever exist with 1 Hand, can fly and shoots lasers out of her eyes!"
I love the writing of Sansa. I love how GRRM taught me to forgive her for succumbing to the role that was sold to her in stories. I was judging her actions in the first novel by their outcomes, not understanding her motivations from an empathetic stance. However, seeing her actually learn, and actually put the world together on her own despite all she suffered, taught me a new kind of strength. A very universal one, endurance. She remained a lady despite having all expectations of that life destroyed. She's amazing.
For me I personally like 'weak' female characters more than the prophesied independent/strong woman because the strong women are rarely shown/written in a realistic way and the weak ones are less judgemental and have better story arcs.
I think the one fault though with effeminate characters, is it their written so uselessly. Like they're damsels in distress. I think character has to have some masculine and some feminine traits to be an interesting character. Masculine and feminine aren't really tied to male or female, just associated. Can I get character really interesting they have probably has a little bit of the opposite in order for them to feel well rounded and useful. Qualities are considered effeminate, like innocence and kindness, make a character easily manipulated. However adding a little bit of cruelty, or decisiveness what is a mass than quality helps..conversely, having a character that is overly analytical, and mean makes a character obnoxious a one-sided unless you flush them out a little bit with compassion, kindness, or some kind of humanity which is often associated with more feminine traits.
This is why I love characters like april kepner and olivia dunham, I mean they are quite badass at times, but most of their character is set around using their emotions and that isn't seen as weakness like many people portray it to be, they see their emotions and kindness as a strength and it is beautiful
This is why I am loving watching the Handmaid's Tale (even though it's kind of a masochistic undertaking to endure it). You really get into the mind of the protagonist, she's a complex characters, full of flaws. She swings between moments of defiance and cool calculation to improve her lot, then swings to moments of self-doubt, giving in to the pressures around her. You watch her attempts at suppressing her empathy and distancing herself as a form of self-protection, then see her break and get flooded with emotion. Her interactions with men are, when possible, on her own terms, but also see the inevitable effects of being abused. You also get to see in Mrs Waterford another complex character, a woman who is strong and smart, and yet for religious reasons has accepted being controlled by her husband and promoting a society that enslaves other women. You see how she sees herself as above others in the hierarchy and abuses her power. Women can be cruel selfish villains with complex motives too.
For a while I was terrified you were going to say that Sansa is a weak character, I'm glad you didn't :)
Thank you SO much for this video! I totally agree with this. I always used to hate the idea of "strong" female characters, because I thought it meant like physically strong - but I'm just starting to see that the definition doesn't mean that at all. Females absolutely shouldn't have to be unfeminine to be strong and empowering, and it's something that's so easy to forget! I hate how in books like the Famous Five series, George is seen as the feminist one because she hates being a girl - like, she can be who she likes, but girls who like being girly are JUST as valid and "strong". When you think about gender stereotypes - like that the man goes off and has the adventures, and the woman stays home and looks after the kids and does the cooking - who's role is more important, and vital to society? Maybe there should be more emphasis on strong male characters who recognise that and are willing to listen and learn from the females.
I think one of the issues with Dawn as a character is that they originally planned to have her be 11 or 12, and they had started writing her that way. They aged the character up when they cast Michelle Trachtenberg, but some of her behaviours come across a bit too young for a 15 year old.
She was also not set up to be very sympathetic: she's introduced as may-or-may-not-be-evil late addition to the cast, always fighting with our lead and the reason we're given to care about her is 'she's the key'. That's not great but that's on the writing, not on Dawn as a character or on Trachtenberg as an actor.
I found her a very convincing younger sibling, being one myself I often found myself empathizing with dawn. Also she added something to Buffy as a character that I felt had been lost along the way.
how could he say dawn was a weak character!?! your friend needs to watch season 5 again, dawn was an all powerful key that unlocked the interdimensional walls to every parallel universe, if anything she was actually the strongest character in the season!
Thank you for this. Femininity is not weak
Absolutely amazing video! I think I've never watched someone in UA-cam talking about this. I love Dawn because as you say she doesn't have paranormal/supernatural abilities in a dangerous and supernatural world. I believe she has a strong character and personality and people must remember that she did an exorcism at her house by herself freeing her mother from a demonic entity (I think she also killed a vampire once). I also love that season because of Glory. That a demonic deity can be female is amazing and the best thing is: She is quite a feminine character but that doesn't make her less dangerous or powerful. There are also other feminine/non fighter female characters who I love, like Daphne and Velma from Scooby Doo and Elle Woods from Legally Blonde. Daphne can have a black belt and still being feminine and Velma (even when she is not feminine) is not a very physically strong character but is very intelligent and emotionally strong. Elle Woods is very intelligent, emotionally strong and perseverant and she is very feminine. Femininity rocks! ;)
Elle Woods is my inspiration tbh... I listen to the musical a lot if I need motivation :D
Great and thanks for answering my comment! :D
Dawn as a character was fine, I just didn't like her. She was a whiny brat, almost the entire way through. She annoyed me, which tells me she was a great character; she made me feel something for her, even if it was mostly irritation!
I think Dawn suffered from a bit of weak writing. They sort of got stuck in the trap of younger annoying sister and rarely explored other aspects of her but when they did I enjoyed it. She wasn't my favorite but I think she was interesting and I wish she got better writing.
Thank you! This video rocks! And is it just me or is it also just as annoying when creators do this to men? Or when they seem to think that female characters have to make up for their physical weakness by being warriors-but-with-Magic! which makes it soooooo much better
Sansa is an annoying character, a frustrating character, a selfish character, but she survives some really brutal stuff. Nothing weak about that, or her story. It is a believable story and her actions make sense given her situation.
She's neither annoying nor frustrating.
Not annoying at all! Many like you still have her in a misconception of s1 where she was just a normal teenage high born girl who happened to love love stories and wanted to marry a beautiful prince. We all girls wanted that at some point of our childhood and early teenage years, but with different perspectives, and somehow we judge Sansa for being actually relatable? Anyways, that changed after episode 10 of that season, and her armour until she escapes King's Landing is still playing that girl who believes in fairytales and wants to marry a prince/king. She was very innocent of many topics, like sex, fighting and many other things. She learned from the best and worst. She may not know how to fight, or dracarys the shit out of any human who doesn't bend the knee (which surprises me many consider this behavior as heroic), but she is now acting as a real queen, she is now a political mind, and she is doing great. That is a strong female character.
Love your voice, love your accent, love your explanations, love how in 2014 you were talking about those things when I was so deep down in the closet in couldn't even breathe. Thank god I found your channel.
Oh, goodness, this video gives me all the feels. I love it. Thank you so much for pointing out that "strong female characters" depends on writing, not physical ability.
Or mental ability. Storng willpower does not make a strong character either.
Personally couldn't stand Dawn. I just found her annoying. I get that she was meant to be a teenage girl in an impossible situation but I couldn't relate to her in any way.
TBH the only times I ever thought about her as a strong character was when she stopped her zombie mum from coming, those moments before Buffy died and in season 7 - not because she physically fought but because she grew up and knew her limits. I respected her more in her researcher role than when she tried to fight.
On Sansa, I'm half and half. I mostly like her and respect that she kept her head down and endured... but I still find her character hard to support, mostly because I can't see her learning from her mistakes. I still find her too trusting and too naive. There are things that she could do that don't involve like gaining knowledge of those around her either from books or listening to those around her.
Aradia is an oc that is a STRONG female character. Physically she isn’t that strong, she is good at duelling due to constant studying of and practice of magic, but physically unless in her cat form she is a twig who can’t lift much. Unless she uses things like throwing knives/guns she can’t achieve a solid hit (even if she is a Quidditch player and a great one at that). What makes her strong is that she keeps going through everything that happens (her adoptive father has a clinical condition which makes him dangerous monthly, she is mercilessly bullied all throughout her education, she has to make decisions which end up making everyone hate her whilst she knows she has to make those decisions to keep her family safe, she also loses her biological parents, her adoptive parents, her adoptive brother). She is also queer (ace panromantic) and she dates 2 gals before settling for someone who feels like family to her and who calms her because this girl has been through hell and back and has ptsd and numerous other mental issues. She is girly though. She likes dresses, heels, makeup, but she doesn’t buy them because she doesn’t have money to spare for them. She’d never drag another girl who likes frills, she would drag a girl who thinks she is better bc she is a tomboy or something because she tends to be ruthless a lot of the time.
Was going to continue lurking and enjoying without comment but then I realised you're wearing a Pits and Perverts t-shirt. Holy shit, Pride is one of the best films I've ever seen and I saw it 6 times in the theatres - I live in Australia, that shit is expensive. Even my brother liked it and he doesn't really care to watch many English language films because he's pretentious like that.
Anyway, adore you, keep doing what you're doing. I watched the Agent Carter video first because Hayley Atwell retweeted it and I subscribed halfway in to watching it. You perfectly articulate everything I already think about this stuff so it's lovely to have some affirmation. Also it's nice to be able to share your videos to people who don't quite get it yet. X
season 5 was awesome, perhaps only beaten by season 6. Dawn was awesome Michelle Trachtenberg and Sarah Michelle Gellar really sold the sibling relation. As a younger sibling I felt so much for Dawn.
Oh well, I'm totally with you, Season 5 was Ace - I mean, it had a mad Goddess as Big Bad, who also happened to be funny. Given it had one of the lesser opening Episodes, and Dawn's introduction may not have been the finest as she appears pretty stereotypical to begin with - but we may forget there that Dawn wasn't a real human to start with, but a created being, so the fault probably did lie with her creators - some italian (?) monk dudes - to begin with.
And her girl crush on Xander of all people was fun.
If you want to talk bad, look at Season 6, which meandered along for the first half with seemingly none of the writers really having an idea what to do with Buffy's character now that she had been dead.
Damn, thank you for this. This revealed some misogyny in me that I never even picked up on. I will be more merciful with Sansa now lol.
Very good thoughts. Though I would like to add something. I think what a female character does is not entirely unimportant. I think we think female characters who do things that are traditionally attributed to men are strong female characters because it goes against traditional gender norms, and it's also important to have that kind of diversity. Having strong female characters in the literal sense of the word is also very important, but I think you hinted at it in the video too. I think a very important tool for feminist writing is to show that a female character is not interested in feminine roles of their respective society, and indeed I think this has been done a lot of times, rightfully so. I am not saying all feminist writing has to be like that and it's a necessity for a strong female character. But it is one of the most important tools to criticize and question gender norms.
The second thing I would like to add is that I think you are not necessarily devaluing traditionally female things or behaviors when you dislike some of them. I do actually think there are some things that are traditionally associated with girls that are rubbish, but I wouldn't say they are because they are "girly". Just as much, there are some things traditionally attributed to guys that I find stupid. It's just because some of these things are superficial or selfish or somehow just bad behaviors in a general sense.
Rowan,
Thank you for publishing this video. It has given me clarity in my own writing. Appreciate your clear, direct definitions of what a strong character is. Love your humor!
I think I probably got whiplash from all the nodding-along I did during this video. All the thumbs up. I'm probably going to post this to my fb. I've heard all the Katniss-slamming lately, calling her "weak" for reacting REALISTICALLY to mental trauma, and it's been driving me up the wall. Like you said. Bull. Shit.
The first thing you do is mention Buffy and my heart jumps oh my god. YES. And I totally agree with allllll your points here, you're truly preaching to the choir. All my friends hate Sansa and it infuriates me to no end. Fantastic video with well explained arguments once again! (also, because my inner Buffy fan is jumping around in circles, why is season 5 your favourite? I also love 'The Body', but are there any more particular elements/episodes you love?)
5:48 Heart of the action? I would say find themselves in interesting situations. Take Kaylee for an example, even if she wasn't a mechanic and she found herself on Serenity, she'd have to cope with the situations there which would introduce her to things outside the prerogative of the archetype she started out as and force her to develop new traits from the situations she found herself in.
Is amazing how many people say that they want to be writers and did not know that a stronger character is not a character that can lift much weight.
First video of yours i've ever seen. Dont know why i pushed play as I just saw the pic of Sansa and the title and thought 'oh crap here we go again' but no, you said everything I've never been able to formulate. And your last gesture made me laugh out loud - thanks :)
That can also, applied too male charters. Like I remember people saying Moon knight sucks as character because he wasn’t able too fight. Even though I consider him one of most complex protagonist.
Whenever this topic comes up, we need to explicitly say what we mean by "strong" or "weak".
Are we talking about strongly written and weakly written?
Or do we mean mentally strong or weak?
Or do we mean strong and weak in terms of physical strength or practical abilities?
We can talk about any of the 3, but the first 2 are more interesting to me.
Too often I see entire conversations where the participants are not decisive about which definitions they are using.
yes! very good points. When women complain about not having enough 'strong female roles' it's not about characters that have no failures, vices, or negative emotions. In fact those often make a character more interesting and believable. The problem is poorly written so-called "characters" that have no real inner life, personality, realistic reactions and opinions, who are totally replaceable by any other attractive model. When men write "strong female characters" they just take the usual hot girl trope and add martial arts skills. No, dude, that's not what we want to see! We want to see actual developed protagonists, ideally written by women who might be less likely to just automatically write the usual hot girl trope.
PREACH GIRL. What an excellent way to explain your argument!
With Dawn, at first I was super confused because she was in the theme song of episode 1 of season 5 xD Me and my sister thought we missed an episode or something! I thought she was pretty cool with the whole Key thing but then the actress got really old really fast for me .-. I dunno, I think it was just her voice that bothered me.
And with Sansa, she is my favourite Song of Ice and Fire character
5:27 actually that could be really hard, because from certain points of view almost any trait could be seen as masculine. Just like almost any trait from a certain point of view can be seen as feminine.
I define being "strong" as being yourself no matter what type that person is
I didn't like Dawn much because she was written as whiny and made some really bad and stupid decisions considering she knew what was up with Buffy, but at the same time she did deal with alot of loss of her mom and Buffy then Tara and then the whole lack of self identity when she found out she was the key.. I'm actually kind of sad for the kid now that I look back. The quote of Buffy saying "Dawn's in trouble? It must be Tuesday." Kind of summed up much of the Dawn experience for me at the time. I actually am not even that big of a fan of the Buffy character for various reasons but SMG is a great actress and pulled it off. I did enjoy her portrayal. My favourite character I think was Anya, though also Willow, Tara and Faith are so full of greatness. "What are they doing?" *Dawn and Anya dancing with money in hand* "The dance of capitalistic superiority." There was so much coded gayness in that show between almost all the female characters but especially Buffy and Faith, and in some could arguably say Buffy and Willow. I actually wrote a femslash fanfiction a long time ago with a Willow and Anya pairing because of the season 7 episode where the rest of the Scooby gang was invisible to Willow and Anya had to help her.. there was a carpet joke.. anywho love these videos. :)
I LOVE this so much. I always liked Dawn and didn't understand people saying she was annoying and weak. I clicked on this thinking you were going to talk about Sansa being weak which would've made me disappointed but I'm glad you agree that she is definitely a strong female character in her own unique way. I actually love Sansa because of her flaws and it makes me relate to her. I honestly don't understand how anyone could blame her for her choices when she has not only survived such trauma, she eventually became stronger because of it.
I started noticing more the "traditionally feminine" characters in series and movies after game of thrones made a mess of Sansa's character. Using rape and torture as a plot device so much on one single character throughout several seasons is total and utter shite.
I've been watching your videos for the past month, and I absolutely love your content. Specifically this one, since in my own book, I've got a lead of who would be considered by those folk "a weak female character" for just being a regular 11 year old girl.
I've never described strength from characters as being purely physical. Strong ones for me are ones who struggle but still persevere despite it. That can of course, come in many different ways.
Sansa is a great example and one of my fave characters in Game of Thrones, in the same way I love characters like Mabel from Gravity Falls or Ingrid Third from Fillmore. I adore characters who remain themselves and don't just have to be "the cool" character to be interesting.
Your channel's fantastic, Rowan. Glad I subscribed.
I love Jo character from "Little Women". I never thought about this as masculine way. I love strong self confident lady character either in book, movie or tv show. This encourage me to do whatever I want as a women, and I don't need a man.
Good for you! As a 48 year old feminist, your channel always gives me so much joy!
Thank you soooo much for this thoughful video ! :D
You managed to phrase perfectly something that I was frustrated to be unable to express, the fact that it is tiring that a "strong female character" is generally depicted as a stereotypical male in a woman's body.
Thank you so so much, I'm so glad I'll now have a video to send to friends when I'm struggling to express that ^^
By the way, I've recently discovered you (either trhough Akhilah, or LucyMoon, or SuperStamStuff maybe ? can't remember sorry) and your videos are AMAZING !
also the interesting thing about Arya is that she actually says in the book that she admires her sister's talents in things that are expected of women in that time, Arya actually recognizes her own short comings in those areas
Some creatures have a real talent for giving you a headache. You're right. it's BS. That you handle it the way you do speaks well of you.
Just started exploring your channel, i kinda died when you mentioned In The Flesh I love that show so much and it's not that well known! Awesome video too!
Omgggg this is actually so disgusting that people feel the need to tear down women and girls for liking things are seen as feminine. They’re called feminine for a reason. If all female characters were badass super strong people, how would other girls feel about liking what they like. Especially now it’s such a thing to like the outcast (which is okay) but to hate the people who aren’t bad or weak or boring but just are more common to come across (which isn’t). I probably haven’t worded this right but I hope everyone understands what I mean so we can stop this once and for all.
I know! I've had people talk about one of my favourite characters in earlier seasons of a show as being annoying because she was cheerful and "bumble-ey" and awkward but... I was like that too.... and it's like.... do you hate me? Nothing wrong with being just passionate and friendly and not being able to kill a man with your pinky. It's not always a Kill Bill story ;)
Thanks for this, you rock.
It's been a couple years since I rewatched Buffy, but I don't remember Dawn having much of a character arch. I mean... she's essentially an infant in the body of a teenager (both major developmental periods in life)... with all this stuff going on in her environment... and she doesn't seem to change... at all. I know there were storylines for her, but they didn't seem to carry much by way of implications.
Strong female character means well written female character. Not female character that punches. Look at Molly Weasley from the Harry Potter-series: She was a strong female character long before she kicked ass in the finale battle. In the six books before that, she was a wonderfull, well written character, without ever physically fighting! She is not muscullar, she is chubby. She shows a lot of traditionell female traits, like being a fantastic mother or cooking or knitting. Molly Weasley doesn't have to be masculin or physically kick ass to be a wonderfull, well written, strong female charkter! (Sorry, for my bad english!)
It seems so many ppl turn a blind eye to a "strength in character." There is one female character I really like, she is physically weak and Literally NEEDS protection from others at many parts in the series, but that doesn't take away her agency in the story. Her physical weakness also creates interesting scenarios you couldn't easily get with the more powerful characters. She is a fairly feminine character, but that doesn't detract from her character. Despite her physical weakness, she is still trusted by her more powerful peers, she is a proactive player who is able to get things done. She is also the emotional support to the protagonist and many other characters.
EXACTLY! Like Waverly Earp in season one of Wynnona Earp. Just because she wasn't the heir doesn't mean that she wasn't an extremely strong, talented, valuable female character, in my opinion.
weird how so many people has problems to undestand that.
I think the word "weak" is better replaced by incompetent. I do love Buffy, because the writers balanced competence and vulnerabilities/shortcomings better than a lot of other showrunners have. I really liked Dawn in Buffy because she added alot more to Buffy's character, and as she grew, she became pretty strong in the sense that she found herself. Something that I don't like is how TV writers have been writing female characters since then. I look at how Andrea from Walking Dead was handled, or all of Ali Larter's characters on Heroes, they were written to fail. I find that, especially in the days of comic book adaptation, we see women being cut down in order to fit their male counter parts narratives. But more specifically to your point, I agree that a character doesn't need super powers, or a black belt to be strong, and yes it is in the writing of the characters, but writing these days has been weird when considering the amount of female characters have been given the incompetent character device. Just the other day, the TV show Supergirl fell into an obvious trap, was beaten, captured, willing gave up her powers (albeit to save a life), was then needed to be rescued. All the while a new male Superhero was introduced to the show, he was impersonate, found the bad guy, saved the day, all in the very same episode. I'm just way more disgruntled over the fact that these characters, yes they do not have to be perfect, have fallen into that incompetence that makes no sense. Also, after her original two close friends fell in love with her, so does the person that she save. This makes me want to tweet angry things, not since Twilight have I felt so upset about writing.
I disagree, Cersei is very incompetent, but still interesting. Catelyn Stark is equally incompetent, but utterly uninteresting. Lana Lang from Smallville was very competent in the latter seasons but about as interesting as chewing on a brick.
Cersei? I think she's more competent than most of her male counterparts. She completely worked her way from the inside out, I think she's very competent. Catelyn was a strong character, she was just victim of circumstance. Incompetent is like Bella from Twilight. lol perfect example.
I'd be interested to hear who you think are weak female characters other than the mechanic from firefly. can you give some examples?
When has Rowan Ellis said the mechanic is weak?