Old RJF on chess. Why Fischer hated chess. Who's the best ever
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2024
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“People are living in a dream world where....”(reporter interrupts and ruins a could be amazing quote.) let. The. Man. Talk.
It's not a reporter. This the plane bringing him from Japan to Iceland. There were diplomats, friends and maybe the chess federation chairman of Iceland. This is not an interview, it was a chat. Anyway, yes, I'd like him to let Bobby finish.
So annoying. You got Bobby Fisher talking and you jump in with yak yak yak... shut the f up and listen. Ahhh, at least I am not alone in my anger.
If you where around Fischer long enough you most definately would have enough of his scattered ramblings.
100% reporter ither scared off answear or probably just to dumb to think outside the box
@@lostinidlewonder he talks perfect sense
Basically he is saying chess was fun when it was open for new discovery. Now it has been analyzed to death.
Yeah, i agree fully on this. For me. Im a 1300 rated player, i love chess. For me openings are still fun, also on clublevel. But gm's play 15 moves without thinking. Chess960 comes more down on your chess tactics, i really like it.
@@jeroenbarbier3508 Many times it is more than just 15 moves like the Sicilian or kings indian defence.
@@jeroenbarbier3508 shall i see you more in r/chess960? #9LX
@@OArchivesX But classical is where its ultimately at. Rapid and blitz are fun because people make mistakes so it validates his point.
He'd obviously say this having talent at chess and would naturally have an advantage in a theory-less environment
morphy said same: ''the ability to play chess is sign of a gentleman. the ability to play chess well is sign of wasted life."
LOL I love this.
The ability to play chess well is the sign of a combination of theory and talent, Moreso theory in higher levels (relative to other higher level people of course!).
The ability to play 9LX well is the sign of talent.
It's ironic that after he retired from chess Morphy tried to start a failing law firm (mainly because his clients wanted to discuss chess with him), his family tried to send him to a mental insitution and he lived off of his family's fortune without achieving much.
@@jackurokawa3838 it’s not ironic. The quote was about himself as well as others. He knew he wasted his life with theory of chess
Thats really all bobby was trying to say.. He just wants it to have more meaning.. But the meaning of anything is found within yourself.
“Chess hasn’t been a good game for 150 years.”
SAVAGE
I feel bad for him. According to Hikaru, he worked so hard to be the best in chess only for computers, and the new generation of chess players out scale him just through purely memorization, and that drove him crazy.
It's not savage, it's sad. He gave his life to chess, but he couldn't cope with being on top.
@@svenniepennie4237 he lost interest and moved on. Why is it sad?
@@anom3778 He didn't lose interest and moved on. He lost himself and never moved onto anything else.
@@svenniepennie4237 well chess was all he really knew so you can make that arguement but he did lose interest and he did move on from it to what I dont know but I dont know if you know about his private life either.
This man basically became an old wizard, full of wisdom and power. Bobby was an absolute legend.
also batshit like a wizard
Yeah...more like a "Grand Wizard." Really disappointing.
A legend, yes, as a misanthrope.
@@GH-oi2jf with all the negativity out there, can one really blame him?
@@CertifiedClapaholic yes
He has a point though.
Memorizing theory and openings kind of make chess a dull game.
+GodlyTecker Chess is still a game on the board for all of as the amatures, byt in the top levelhas start to become dull.
A strong Gm around 2550-2600 with white pieces, with the development of theory can make a lot of draws even with the WORLD CHAMPION.
See what happen with Carsen last year when he try to get out of linewith GM ratedaround 2550-2650, and start lose a lot of games.
I would love to see a mix of clasical chess, and Fisher random chess in big tournaments.
Fisher random will we played when the player with black pieces has a big gap in rating point ahead from his oponemment ,lets say 100 rating points,then if he wants ,he can make the game playedin fiscer random, so in that way we can avoid white piece players who play onlu for the draw depending a lot in home preparetion.
+GodlyTecker Thats why Magnus Carlsen is the best player in the world after Fischer.
+GodlyTecker Chess is stupid its a game of full information, you dont need skill to win a game just good memory and experience when to play which kind of opening. The problem in chess is his structure, you gain full information on both side. On the long run the computer will always be better than you. That makes it a stupid game and thats the reason why he hated it. The keypoint in chess is kreativity people with autism have an edge over people without their sight this makes the game more stupid than everything. If you know all the random stuff you wouldnt start playing chess because it makes no sense at all.
+Blackbeard that's true for every sport. When you are at the top of your game and you are extremely higher than everyone else, the game loses grown for you. Chess is extremely competitive. Yes, it's about theory and learning moves, however, 99% of people will never get to a grandmaster level. You are always learning and always trying to get better. Micheal Jordan left NBA bc there was no talent - he was bored. Chess is all about out thinking your opponent. You can think it's a stupid game but history says otherwise.
+Blackbeard u stupid????
The French man he mentions who developed pawn theory was Philidor.
+Sound & VIsion thanks for that
+Sound & VIsion Fransua Andre Danikan Philidor, the famous composer at that time.
+Sound & VIsion Fransua Andre Danikan Philidor, the famous composer at that time.
+bach5861
I actually have three complete Philidor operas in my gigantic music collection. He was a pretty damned fine composer, based on these three operas, in my opinion.
*****
I hope that's a joke.
The point Bobby was making about the modern player is that matches are played by the worlds best players today using memory far into the game until they reach the point where they really have to think for themselves instead of having machines to do it for them. Talent on it's own is not enough for today's players they must be able to retain all the chess knowledge they have of openings and other players innovations to keep up with the latest ideas. In Bobby's day they did the same but just with books and magazines. He believes chess as we know it is ruined because an average player can play like Kasparov for maybe 30 moves before his real talent or lack of it comes into play. He has a real point,
After move 6 there are already 9 million possible chess games. If you’re able to remember that much you deserve to be a master.
@@bubbamike4743
I play no chess.
But as I understand it there are common openings. Memorizing the main lines of the first 6 moves seems like something that any amateur would pick up with time. The idea of "9 million" moves has nothing to do with it because most everyone picks from a short list.
That's akin to an advertisement I read for a restaurant that said they had "70 trillion combinations of orders." It took a few google searches, a calculator and 5 minutes to figure out it had 46 ingredients. However, how many people order a burrito with just a tortilla and cilantro? Most people will get a tortilla, a protein, some common vegetables, a salsa etc. So among the 70 trillion combinations, you only ever see variations on a theme.
If you're able to memorize that you deserve to be a master. They memorize the most common burrito at the shop. Burrito supreme, minus the sour cream.
I don’t think an average player would know 30 moves of theory in any line of any opening. If you put that much time and effort into your opening prep you are probably already IM or GM material, and these folks have talent and creativity to spare.
Unless you are referring to an “average” GM, which is nothing like an average player...
Bubba Mike I know when there is a certain hype in opening theory. You can start a game with d4 online and play against the same opening line on 33% of your games. The same gambit line all over again even if there are millions of possible possibilities at the 6th move. It was a gambit line with b5 on third move. Can’t remember the name as black. You sacrifice a pawn on b5 and afterwards your opponent plays a6 with a lot of pressure till very late.
@@michaelg4346 brilliant
would've been nice to hear what he was going to say after "people are living in a dreamworld...". Interviewers who don't know when to hold their tongue and wait for a complete answer make for painful interviews
Exactly
David _ agreed
The shill interviewer didn't want to hear that. Or us to hear it.
David _ Seriously. Fuck this interviewer..
That couldve been a good quote...
:(
Interviewer: "Are you the best player of all time?"
Fischer: "......yeah, i think so.....but that doesn't mean anything....if you had asked "are you the most talented player?" that would be a different story."
Interviewer: "Are you the most talented player of all time?"
Fischer: ".....yeah, i think so."
But it’s still a totally different story 😂😂😂 he just happened to be both
He's saying that because he's always been super competitive, so of course he'd want to be the best, in anything professional, you have to believe you're the best. However, it's all too objective and not a topic worth discussing. Who cares who's better, too many greats to enjoy
@@tomscott904 You can argue that Tal was as talented if not more (and was a creative artist unlike Fischer). But Fischer is definitely the best along with Kasparov (and Carlsen?)
Talent would just determine the amount of time and effort it took both players to achieve upmost mastery in chess and to achieve their peak form. In that respect, I would say that Paul Morphy was the most talented chess player who ever lived, as he was able to learn chess just by watching his family play it at home, and played chess as a favorite pass time. Still, at the age of 9, he was already the best player in town and later became unbeatable while at the same time becoming a lawyer. So, without teams of top grand masters to help him achieve his best form, without thousands of books or computer programs at his disposal, without concentrating 100% on chess, Morphy reached an incredible and never before seen level at chess. Just unimaginable feat!
@@theUroshman Fischer agreed. He called Morphy the greatest of all the geniuses.
Fischer is making the argument that the game of chess would be better without all the book learning and theory that has accumulated over the years - that it tends to substitute memorization and study for talent and creativity over the board - and he is right!
Why not combine the two approaches? Studying past games played by the very best is very instructional alongside studying one's own games. Learning from others makes achieving a goal easier -- doesn't make you less of a person walking through a door that someone else has opened for you...
So don't think and play yourself. Copy others. It's what Fischer hated and why he left the game.
@@larrylindgren9484
Fischer got to the top by studying the games of previous players just like everyone else. It is the same in all competitive sports. If you go for tennis coaching, they don't tell you to freestyle and do whatever you like - they show you the proper grip, the proper footwork, how to serve.... You play the game by learning the techniques that are already known to work. Chess is no different.
@@larrylindgren9484 Well said. The problem in chess is that it has become so complex and competitive that you can't succeed being just "creative" and ignoring the study and memorization of tactics. Thus, it is a game which rewards memory over creative thought.
@@srkucrickk chess is for robots now. Not actually thinking. Just he moves this piece and I move this one because everyone else moved it that way. It's just sad.
Its insufferable to hear the man interrupting and not let rjf talk
I KNOW!!! Fischer was making an excellent point, maybe if you shut the f*** up you'd get it and we'd all be enlightened! Really want to punch that guy...
nicoricolime Right? He's Bobby Fischer and you're a journalist STFU
No, he WAS Bobby Fischer, here he's a senile old man talking shit and making everyone roll their eyes. The interviewer is trying his best to right the plane and keep things intelligent and on track.
J Thompson, No, you're just a disrespectful piece of shit.
@@JT-ic9mp You dumb nut pot.
why do interviewers ask their questions as if they are more brilliant than the answer that they are talking over?
That is my question exactly.
because at that time in his life Fischer would be asked one question, and then he would switch over to a different topic, ranting on about jews, conpiracy's, how the US is out to get him etc. essentially paranoid rantings and obsessions that had been on his mind and that he had been obsessing about for the past 30-40 years in his isolation.
sadly, Fischer never had a normal childhood or any kind of stability or normal relation to the rest of the world that most people do.
it's totally normal that some people have opinions and views that are outside of the norm, but difference between people like that and somebody like Fischer is that he absolutely could not contain this ideas and views about the world in relations to other people. he would just rant and rant and rant if you let him. because essentially, he was simply not socialized like other kids as a child, and he never got any sort of support, help or proper treatment for his mental illness.
fuck, stop glorifying him as some kind of hero or christ-like figure outside of chess. the man was ill, and probably suffered for most of his life, including his childhood.
Interviewers ask questions they want there own preconceived answers to and try to force people to basically say the answers they want to hear. More or less trying to lead their interviewers into saying things believed by the interviewer
Because it sells papers and magazines and generates clicks by getting a quote for a headline - “Bobby Fisher still thinks he is the best player in the world”
Because most interviewers are shallow little people who want to hear their voices on a recording.
Fisher had 2785 rating in 1972. Almost a half of the century ago his rating was higher than today's top ten super GMs! Karpov had 2780 and Tal 2705. Fisher also had the highest percentage of win rate in history of chess - he won 72.3% of all his games in chess database. He lost only 85 games in his chess career. He was the greatest chess genius of all time concerning just these tree facts.
We've had a lot of people over 2785 since then, including Kasparov and Carlsen of course. A rating only goes so far either way. In terms of pure raw talent I'd personally go with Capablanca, who never really studied chess, and has a 73.5% lifetime win rate with 51 losses in database
@@grizzlybare3771 under the backdrop of the cold war against the indomitable soviet machine, with no coaches, no advisers, nothing he didn't just defeat club players, he demolished grandmasters to such an extent that hasn't been seen before or since..his rating was 130 points above the next highest..carlsen has 23 within 130 of him..let that sink in.. for Fischer and his rating of 2785, the next closest was 2655...if carlsen is 2800, there are 23 players at 2670 and above.. that's the level of dominance Fischer demonstrated..the award in his name has never been given..
And I believe there are Fischer ratings, then there is everyone else including magnus and kasparov..Fischer would have a rating that doesn't exist, 3300 or something..his level of chess brilliance cannot be overstated
I agree with him on this one. Everyone wants to win or do the greatest work, they become too obsessive until they take all the fun out of the event (sports, games, art and etc.). Then you add a lot of money to the mix and it gets even worse. Everything is more fun and exciting when it is at an amateur level.
@David Pumpkin Children's events have always been ugly. Trust me, I had the unique experience of trying to make it in a stupid sport with a mother who did some pageants as a kid. It was getting ugly for me and she used to just shrug them off as pageantry parents. These other kids parents were crazy, and I used to kick their ass anyway. lol We didn't operate like them. I was the sole drive and madness like Fischer, and she was the spectator who didn't get in the way. No cheering, rooting, strategy or anything. When the tournaments were over, we went out to dinner and had fun. Win or lose, it was going to be worth our while. She used to relate to the Russian gymnast who would push there coaches away. Being half slavic, it was probably genetic. Hahaha.
2:15 checkmating Kasparov
watching this during the 2018 world engine memorization championships 😢
What's weird is that everything he says does not apply to amateurs. They can still experience the game in the same way people in the 19th century did, without being encumbered by the erudition required to be competitive (not a flaw in itself, but it does not concern most of us).
Enter Mayor
He is just saying that the game doesn't have that much value in itself, which it doesn't. Whats the value in any activity or hobby, in essence they're pointless.
Doesn't mean the practise of learning the game is wasted time spent in my opinion. A lot of the things you learn could help you in life or just supply you with the confidence and happyness to exist.
Also he grew up with a mother who didn't seem to value chess that much (according to the documentary about him), much of his country didn't care that much for chess of course that impression rubs of on you.
He got the question "whats next" in an interveiw and he answered that he hasn't played enough chess, aknowledging that he thinks and knows there is more to the world but that he wasn't going to engage in it yet.
I'm guessing the feeling that he was wasting his time that was surrounding the man caught up with him eventually.
I think it's a shame that he couldn't acheive more outside of chess also if that what he wanted.
I’m certainly not erudite, and I like it a lot. I’m Exhibit A! :-D
@@esscate at least chess in its standard form? i mean chess960 aka fischer random chess?
@@esscate what is your opinion of 'Chess960: The winner is the more agile mind. Chess: The winner is the biggest nerd.' - comment by redditor MingusMingusMingu ?
He had over a 2700 ranking played b4 they created the computers and quit playing chess at age 29 its phenomenal what he was its scary to think what he could have been .....R.I.P. "THE GOAT"
Actually he played e4
@@JRibsthe schizo variation?
@@Frankcohle indeed
Yup! Fischer is absolutely right, nowadays with all the computers, chess engines, and ease of access to chess literacy, playing chess is like taking a fucking exam!!!
yeah its just a memory test
But isn't everything like that now? Hell even basketball is like this to an extent.
Micah Barbee thank you. I didn't know this.
Micah Barbee Then the problem is with chess being an easy game to play. Besides, it's not like human tournaments have disappeared.
Well Hong Khuu, the word "easy" is very subjective, not all people view chess as "easy". For instance, a game of chess against a lower rated opponent may promise a higher chance of Victory but, that doesn't necessarily mean that opponent is "easy" or the chess of that game.
My intro to chess came via Fischer's book: BOBBY FISCHER TEACHES CHESS, and a few wks later I saw his game #17 (1972 WORLD CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP) on t.v. while in a small town in N. Texas. Thanks to FISCHER, I'VE been hooked for 45 (plus) years now. He was my inspiration. R.I.P. FISCHER and my thanks.
These eccentric geniuses are fascinating. When they start sounding "crazy", listen closer.
It's funny that you would call him eccentric. There was a quote where he said he hated being called "eccentric" or "weird"
he was all round batshit crazy
I guess you never heard Fischer talk about Jewish people. The man went nuts.
fischer was jewish.....maybe you need educate yourself to fischers life...see why he said what he said....
I like that
These reporters won't stop hassling Bobby with chess questions. Leave the man alone and let him talk about whatever he wants god damn it!
Yeah, and not just Fischer. It seems like half the questions ever asked by chess journalists amount to "Who is the best player ever?" or "Who is the better of this or that player"?
Greg Torosyan I know basically nothing about chess, but when a man is considered by many to be the greatest chess player ever, it's unlikely that journalists are going to want to talk to him about the weather.
they just darent mention his antisemitism now that would have got a crazy reaction
Well I assume talking about politics with Fischer would be a bit awkward.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand how so?
5:38 I love how he gets into the question and really thinks about it lol
"Bobby Fischer - the greatest genius to have descended from the chess heavens" - Mikhail Tal
I would have thought Bobby would have said that about Mikhail
Meh... Only good for a single championship cycle....
I think Fisher lost all four games to Tal sometime around 1962 and swore he would never lose to Tsl again & he never did. That probably impressed Tal.
@@kasparov937 fitting your name is Kasparov...
@@kasparov937 Shut up idiot
he looks like charles darwin. Evolution of chess
Haha😂
Abiogenesis fails
interesting interview, never seen this before, he seemed pretty lucid and not crazy
Not too crazy lol
Jeremy Bader If he just dropped the word 'jew' and turned it to 'pathological bad people who then project their own pathology onto the rest of society' he would not be seen as crazy at all. Look at Hitler, Stalin, and any of the crazy leaders, look at the bankers and the politicians, they project their own pathology onto to everyone else and that is what causes problems. It isn't 'Jew' this and that. He was angry with them, but I think he saw things too. 'People are living in a dream world' in regards to chess, that is deep.
+El Duder He used the "Bishops" to knock "Rooks".
+Jeremy Bader When he speaks of chess, he remains of genius, but when he speaks of anything else which does not concern his professional feld, like every other genius, he is a nuttjob, easy as that, just because someone is a great chess player, that does not make him a mini god, who knows it all.
+Nat Brown That's one perception. Another is that he is a person of extremely high intelligence, a person who thought differently than the social paradigm of his day, and that his chess skill was merely a byproduct of that. If you believe the reality of history is 100% as you learned it in the books, then maybe you're closer to nutjob yourself than you think.
chess is basically a search for truth. poetic.
Chess for me is a search for a sucker that I can hustle. ...
The rhythmic contractions of a chic's pelvic floor muscles in perfect unison with the sweet squeezing of my throbbing dick... is the search for truth.
How so?
What does it mean though?
@@esscate he ever said in talkshow that 'in Chess, it's just you and your opponent at the board and you're (also ur opponent) trying to prove something (such as my strategy is better, i'm smarter, etc)'. That's why he said 'search for truth'.
Fischer random was a great idea. I enjoy playing it
Yes but it can get very one sided very quickly
It's clearly an improvement upon the game.
i wish more people played it, as a beginner chess player the only people i can find playing fischer random on lichess are much more experienced players so i have to play the standard chess basically
It leads to unique and often exciting middlegame positions. Some starting positions are more flexible than others in terms of natural development.
You need the fundamentals and the rudiments of chess BEFORE playing such a random game.
Chess turned Bobby into a spiritual seeker. All the success, name, fame, money finally opened his eyes to the futility of mad ambitions
Why do people call this man crazy ? He is brilliant just listen objectively !
When he talks about chess he's brilliant, anything apart from chess and you'll see why he's considered crazy.
Because he spoke the truth about ones who cannot be criticized
@@asmallpers0n his games and chess notes were stolen/confiscated by juice, but of cause not all of them, but only top layer juice
Indeed !
Bruh this guy was celebrating 9/11 so you still think he didn’t went insane?
He became more of a philosopher than a simple chess player. It seems like he prizes creativity over memorization. It's a question of what it is to be human, the memorization computers can do better anyways.
Great piece of history and Fischer footage! Thanks for uploading this!!
2:57 "Chess is basically the search for truth..." that's deep.
Perhaps - but paradoxically, deep is shallow. Depth worships itself; truth is a fart in the face of God
That doesn’t mean anything.
THIS.
Chess nowadays is mostly memorization. That is why Fischer took the world championship from the russians. The russians played by the book. They knew what their opponent would play 4 moves ahead, because that's how chess theory and books said they should play. Fischer knew that, and used that against them. Fischer himself took risks, played unusual, brilliant moves that were completely alien to the russians. They couldn't figure out what he was going to do next.
The russians had good memory. Fischer was pure genius. THAT'S why he won.
fischer took whatever route gave him the best chance of a win, most players arent willing to do that. Just look at how carlsen plays he does nothng of the kind
what are you talking about? objectively carlsen is the most accurate chess player in history... he is also known for pushing for the win when he isnt supposed to, just look at the wcchampionship
He was reading a lot Soviet Union magazines, and now we know why! :) Good comment.
Fischer himself tried to refute the kings gambit, he studied the whole opening for a really long time, so saying that he doesn't like this opening prep stuff is a bit hypocritical of him.
+GDSFish To say you don't like something yet partake in it doesn't mean its hypocrisy?I dont like going to work but I do, am I a hypocrite? It would be hypocritical if he had said he doesn't like any opening theory yet loves the kings gambit. He says himself in this interview, he was disillusioned with chess at the time and played because of ambition regardless of its boring nature or whatever.
We are fortunate that He stayed in our country, the Philippines, for quite some time. Rest in Peace Bobby
This man is no crazy at all..... he just speaks the truth
Except for all the stuff he said about Jews, black people, and women, that shit was batshit
@@justinbieber8028 yes, 😂 in that moments he was just a stupid man, better said, a poor man with a poor childhood for sure
@@justinbieber8028 What's wrong hating jews that dont want to adapt to the country they imigrated to?
We would be beaten to death if we came to their countries behaving like that
@neverforget1971 yes it was.
@@justinbieber8028the stuff he said about jews is effing true
He is a jew himself
If he was alive today he'd have his own podcast & would be very succesfull
I'd like to see him on Joe Rogan.
Joe Rogan: Have you ever played chess on DMT?
He's too paranoid to make a podcast.
Fischer is just being honest haha
Oh sure he was one of the smartest guys ever. Just don't let him say anything anti establishment. If he does, quick interrupt him and change the subject, before he weights in on anything relevant to mankind.
Fischer was Jewish.
rob sol Which is why it's even more stupid that he hated Jews.
No he practiced no Judaism that I know of. But are you a Jew by faith or birth? Because I suspect that he like many others including most jews if they even know what a jew is themselves, tend to think it has at least as much if not more to do with a practiced belief system than genetics or birthright.
Judge not lest ye be judged accordingly, right? But if we're judging what or who is stupid, let me see, he had an IQ over 180 How about you, lol.
John Greystoke "are you a Jew by faith or birth?"
Either. You can be a Jew by being of Jewish descent or by converting to the religion. Bobby's parents were Jewish.
"But if we're judging what or who is stupid, let me see, he had an IQ over 180 How about you, lol"
I didn't call Fischer stupid, I said it's stupid that he hated Jews. Let's face it, smart people can be stupid at times, or do stupid things. That's separate from general intelligence.
Old Bobby Fischer is Robert Duvall
I would say Fischer is the most dominating chess player ever.
i would say kasparov is the most successful, nut he was only +2 against karpov, fischer win 20 in a row against top class players, nut kasparov was world champion for 15 year's so he is probably the most successful.
+Jake Bishop Kasparov only Genius who beat chess program.Fischer couldn't
kasparov was the first ever world champ to loss to a chess computer, chess computers sucked when fischer was alive, we dont know what would have happend if he had played
100% lose..Fischer at his peak was 2785..Kasparov was 2851
+Arash Akrami Have you heard about ELO inflation? Elo Marks are intertemporally incomparable
As you progress through any subject and if you continually push yourself, after years of hard work and study, you end up in a situation where only the most difficult and challenging aspects of the subject remain unconquered, and it takes ever more energy and determination to feel like you are making progress. I believe this unrelenting pressure to improve and be the best is why Bobby Fischer says he hates chess.
I love how Bobby wanted to talk about FischerRandom, the interviewer didn't want to and asked him another question and bobby was able to turn it around and make the question about FischerRandom.
His point is : chess is not just a game , it’s an language of finding the truth, Millions of Respect to him !
Bobby was amazing. I love when people explain abstract concepts, for me it is fascinating how mind can find a concept that is too difficult to explain certain and objective, and then it gets explained more abstractly, like you're taking a step upwards on thinking, slowly floating to just one concept, and that's _how it all ends._ I think I'm not explaining myself correctly because english isn't my native language but I'm trying my best :P.
I agree. People stand on the shoulders of giants and consider themselves brilliant chess players. This isn't necessarily the case anymore considering all of the mystery of chess is pretty much solved. Chess engines are already in 3200 strength range. This is also evident in opening theory and modern lines. Fischer random chess is without a doubt superior because there is no presumption nor is there anyway to prepare the given positions. It's a "in the moment" flash where creativity and logic is at it's purest. Even though I love to play regular chess (especially blitz), even I see this issue.
Thank goodness I am only an A class player because if I were at the IM level this would be even more frustrating. Tactics and patterns and particluar variations in which you beat your opponent and in which your opponent beats you is no longer creative but preparatory. It becomes a game of memory and patten recognition rather than something truly unique and in the moment
Fisher random in the end just multiplies opening theory by a thousand. Capablanca chess is better, as it extends the number of possibilities in the tree, and the size of the board, while still having the action-at-a-distance character of chess.
likebox2 Fischerandom preserves the rules, that's the point. Capablanca chess is a different game altogether, because of completely new dynamics between the pieces. Remember that the regular chess rules have been perfected over the time of more than half a millenium. Adding new pieces and squares would throw most of that out the window, and with fixed starting positions it wouldn't remove opening theory either.
You need to try Capablanca chess--- the only defect in Capablanca's original design is the unprotected pawn in the opening, which makes opening theory extremely constrained (you keep attacking and defending this one pawn in nearly all the reasonable openings). This is fixed in "Capablanca random" or Gothic Chess, which produces better play. I play Gothic/Capablanca against my computer using the engine "FairyMax" (which is a very simple engine computationally, but it's pretty good at ordinary chess, maybe around 2200, because the tactical depth is good today-- and like any computer it's a tactical and defensive monster). FairyMax makes elementary blunders in Capablanca chess due to the engine's ignorance about files against the king, and due to the long-term issues in the game that are less prominent in ordinary chess. I beat it regularly at Capablanca chess, even though the engine beats me at normal chess (sometimes I beat it at ordinary chess, very very rarely, and usually I lose right in the opening due to opening blunders which are avoided due to the much longer set-up time for Capablanca openings before serious conflict). I believe this means that there is a real human advantage in Capablanca chess as compared to engines, just because of the greatly expanded move tree, 3 strong peices, knights are worth significantly less, bishops worth more, and the knight-rook is basically a second queen, and can't be traded for a knight-bishop, even though knight-bishop can mate by itself. This makes brute force search much less effective, and the game is more positional, with tactical combinations coming at a roughly equal rate as in ordinary chess, except the midgame appears after more moves, and the pawn structure tends to be more closed.
You can play Capablanca/Gothic against FairyMax by installing xboard and FairyMax, give it a try, it's really well designed, as good as ordinary chess, really. Chess did develop over centuries, but people are smarter today, and have computers to evaluate games, so they are at least hundred times better at making good balanced games.
Players learned pattern recognition way before chess engines became a thing.
- "I'm the best player and better than Morphy, but that doesn't mean that I'm the most talented one."
- "Are you the most talented player?"
- Yeah, I think so...
This mas was a legend.
He just wanted to avoid the ''interviewers'' question quickly as possible. If he would've said Morphy, then the interviewer would've most likely said ''why him?'' He probably thinks Morphy is the greatest.
One of my fav videos . Salute to the greatest chess player of all time .
This is torture to an old and chess-robbed Fischer to interview him about something he really doesn´t have the energy nor the motivation to be involved in anymore...
This is the even sadder fate of chess today. It’s not like tennis, a contest won by the most talented player, rather it is won by he who has memorised longer tried and tested sequences of play, which is why now so many games are blitz and rapid, compared to the old days when everybody played long games. In fact, there is more chess going on between two amateurs, and less thinking time in many professional games than in ping pong.
02:29 "I don't want to promote this goddamn game"
It's so sad how Bobby ended up. I think he is the best ever because he managed to become the best in the world at the time with all the odds against him. Tragic story but he will always be the best in my eyes.
The amount of work Bobby Fischer put into chess was massive that takes shear determination, focus, and commitment that most people don’t have. While growing up surrounded by nothing but chess he did not have a well balanced life. So he reached a point where he simply did not want that anymore and wanted to be part of other things that life has to offer. His disappearance from the world makes perfect sense to get away from annoying people demanding answers. There is nothing strange or unusual about his behavior except the fans wanting to drain more out of him. Famous people do hide from people all the time, so it’s the fans that are nuts.
After Fischer reached absolute succes, by becoming the World Champion, there was really nothing for him waiting at the end. And then he searched for God, he had found none. So began the second half of his life, in which he could never climb out of the deep emotional hole, left by his outstanding achievement. I understand this man very well, as I've went through the exact same thing, but somehow managed to come out of it.
The farther someone's thinking deviates from mainstream or from familiar concepts the more people say "he's crazy". Doesn't seem too crazy here.
Truth is treason in the empire of lies. - Ron Paul
@@neonnaughtsie4726 George Orwell actually
It was a great opportunity to just, listen.
We miss you Bobby
It's amazing that a simple game starts deep conversations in the comments and in the video; philosophical ideas.
I believe the French master player from centuries ago with the pawn strategies, he was trying to name was Philidor.
This is a man that sees everything. Everything...looks at every line, and plays it to the end. Do not take anything at face value. Think for yourself. Stop applying what you may think is "right" or "wrong" and just search for truth. In life and in chess. Unfortunatly in many cases the truth hurts. This makes the bearers of truth "insane" because they don't see things just for what they are. Bobby doesn't put up with bullshit.
lol...I love your last sentence - "Bobby doesn't put up with bullshit"...I couldn't agree more :)
Car talk fan?
+alterdestiny I find it humorous that Magnus has gone on record stating he would beat both Fischer and Tal. He would shit his pants across the board from either of them.
+gasparifreak Truth.
He said so many times, that they only ever needed him during that Cold War era.
I just wonder if maybe he was just unable to distinguish from judaism and zionism.
Fischer has to be one of the most misunderstood people in history...
he looks like a chess master grand master edition, love to play it difficult level
I played 960 by accident, and it was pretty fun. It's a great addition to Chess, and I like that it's part of tournaments now.
Bobby Fischer: "Thank you for playing my game"
It's like many things in life. One starts with wonderment and passion to master a craft whether it be a musical instrument, painting, writing or even chess. When you delve to the point where the joy diminishes is when love becomes hate. Many can master a craft but few can carry the joy into the mastery. I believe that is what happened to Morphy and it appears to have absorbed Fischer as well.
The problem is not unique to chess but applies to any closed system. It eventually gets overanalyzed, and nothing new emerges. This even holds true for the universe as a whole. I hope we manage to reach the next dimension someday
The beginning words sums up the supposed "insanity" by fischer.. Bobby was made of talent and creativity, his opposition was that of memorization and prearranged moves. He talks about how chess was FULL of pre made moves and rules with actual names (and it is). Its obvious his mind is hungry for a game that has more than chess ever did and can. He saw the dead end. He lived the dead end. He started psychological warfare between countries and players. hes a truth rock in your fragile glass house.
seems to me he really would like and enjoy to see, that "chess 960" / "Fisher random chess" would become more popular
Fischer was the biggest student of chess theory. Against d4, He almost every time played King's Indian, an opening which was analyzed to death in early 50s. Against e4, He played most theorized lines of sicilian. First twenty moves of HIS every game were home cooked. He was the one with memorization and prearranged moves. Others like Bronstein, Taimanov, Korchnoi and Tal were creative.
Classical chess is not a dead end. There is a jungle of variations and problems waiting to be found. Look at games of chess engines. They calculate thousands of variations more precisely than any human could ever do and they are still beatable. If chess was a dead end, every game between chess engines would be a draw.
I meant they are beatable by other chess engines. Stockfish 8 can calculate more than 100,000 variations per second and it lost to asmFish 051117. Chess engines, which are far more stronger then any human can ever be, fail to calculate every single possibility. This is how complex chess is. So no. Chess is not dead like bobby claimed.
MazyMetric totally agree fischer beat a lot of guys in his prime because he had analysed variations out to an advantage for him even new moves were analysed to an extreme depth now he complains because others have taken this method on board and built on it
Still fischer was very very good for his time in the 1970s and some of his games were gems
Maybe he should have been a boxer. He had a good frame for it
All of you saying bobby is crazy are far crazier than he ever was.
dont roast them to hard
Yea I'm sure his antisemitism isn't crazy either right...
@@walterpay341 - idiot.
@@coffeyjjj clever retort
Shut up
He made a great point about Morphy. People who Bobby were beating like dogs would have beaten Morphy. There was so much information and theories that players have acquired by Bobby's time. It's sad that this man was not treated like a King towards the end of his life.
He hated his fellow chess players, not chess itself. You can find a video where he says, "I hate chess players."
He transcends the game itself. A true outside-the-box thinker. I can't think of a parallel in another field.
I can. Alex Jones.
The Frenchman he talks about is Philador...
I respect this man, said the same things about memorization about math...no one else sees it but I completely understand and am so passionate about this type of thing, everything is in my head...I've said it so many times no need to state it again when the intricacies are in my thoughts and I understand more than I can convey through words
fischer is a legend...theory and brainless memorization ruins it all
I play chess sometimes just for fun. When once somenone asked me "who is your favorite chess player", I said "there is no point to answer this, because I only like Bobby Fischer." They tried to present him as crazy, because they didn 't like the fact, he said the truth with the most embarassing way. Not only for chess, but for other things as well. And now with globalization, co*id crisis, climate crisis etc., we see how inteligent this man was. All my respects from Hellas, you are the main reason I play this game.
Fischer loved chess. He hated people. He used chess to punish people he hated. He told me this personally and handed me some manuscripts with crazy theory but I didn't want to be like him (obviously). He also created Chess960 and the increment clock so his impact on the game has been greater than that of any single human.
Also funny, he's asked "who's the best at chess?" and he's like "Well me, but that says nothing about talent", then "who's the most talented at chess?", "Well, me"
2:04....he sounds just like the 'Dude' aka jeff lebowski. "well, that is just your opinion, man."
blite13 Yay dudeism
The Frenchman Philidor
Bobby is making perfect sense. . Perfect Sense. As an ex-pro sportsman myself from the 70s-80s Sport in the same way is ruined. The Pro Sportman of today can't even think for himself. . .he's told what to do. . .by the machine!
His comments hold true for many "games". I started writing software in 1982 at age 12 and it was fantastic fun. I got very good at it. Made a great career out of it. Today the best software developers learn and memorize so many complex frameworks. The creativity is gone. At the start of each project you know what the finished product will be. They hammer out code like robots. The best way to avoid this and still enjoy writing code is to solve novel problems. Don't play the game like you are expected to play it. That means turning down a lot of boring work and taking on the hardest challenges.
“Let me tell you something, if you will forgive a senior for prosing. There are two ways to play chess. One is a man against a man; the other is a man against a chessboard. It’s the difference between match and metal play in golf. Observe: if I know you are going to play the Philidor defense to the King’s Knight Opening, I do not risk being forced into the Petroff, which I dislike. But in playing an unknown quantity, I must analyze every position like a problem, and guard against all possibilities. It takes a great genius and a lifetime’s devotion to play the latter game. But so long as I can read your motive in your move, I can content myself with guarding that one line. Should you make a move whose object I cannot see, I am compelled to take a fresh view of the board and analyze the position as if I were called upon to adjudicate an unfinished game.”
-Aleister Crowley
im the same age as him in his interview on that cavet show, man this dude was like the youngest old person and the oldest young person
Fischer is perhaps the most important and influential chess player ever, a true legend
Oh and he was a great player too
His legacy lives on, even today
"I was trying to make it work". It was definitely Fischer playing against Short.
Short has said that that definitely was not Fischer
Fischer: "Chess is the search for truth." Well said, Mr. Fischer!
I didn't really understand what he was getting at. Mind explaining?
I think he means that in chess you're always looking for the best move. At one point he realised that this once creative and talent-based skill was being replaced and beaten by theory, memorisation and computers. Then he decided that "the best move" is simply not to play anymore.
In chess, you're searching for fake truth; artificial truth. What we need in life is real-life truth i.e. answers to real-life problems.
@@josephbishara4791 Dumb take
@@joeinnocente3945 Chess is expression of your inner self. It's you vs. your Psychology ultimately. Kind of like Forex Trading.
I think the tragidy behind Bobby's life was that he was given a very powerful incentive to sacrifice more of his life to dive deeper into a game that was designed to push the brain to its computational limit. Then design a computer that could crush that in a matter of minutes.
The only tragedy I see is that he got distracted into other areas where he clearly had no competence, notably his opinions about Jews. He was overcome with hate. He should have stuck to chess.
@@GH-oi2jf nope he is infact right
Though Bobby Fischer was stammering in this interview, he was speaking like a Zen Master. Through his mastery of the game of chess, he achieved enlightenment.
“You are like this tea cup, so full that nothing more can be added. Come back to me when the cup is empty. Come back to me with an empty mind.” - Zen Parable
The honestest chess player on the planet.
2:32 "I don't want to promote this god dame game."
- B. Fischer
♥
2:57 "Chess is basically a search for truth" -- Sounds great coming from Fischer.
To paraphrase the man, "I hate it, because I love it so much." Once again, we explore that fine line.
And on that pilgrimage to become the "best", an exchange tends to be the toll to cross:
- JOY for GLORY
- LOVE for HATE
- The MOST TALENTED for the BEST
- The TRUTH for a DARE
"Chess is basically the search for truth." -Bobbie Fischer in this interview.
Pretentious sentence. Chess is a game, won by people who have a great memory or bots. Science is the search for truth.
@@jackcarpenters3759 What's interesting is what he says just after that.
@@jackcarpenters3759 Philosophy is the search for truth, science is it's retarded little brother.
@@jackcarpenters3759 This is scientism at its finest, folks.
He's referring to the improbability of ever solving the game and having to test your theories over the board. You're trying to prove to your opponent that you have the truth and and that he is incorrect. This happens a lot in chess and this way of explaining the game is extremely common.
@@jackcarpenters3759 "I felt that chess... is a science in the form of a game... I consider myself a scientist. I wanted to be treated like a scientist."
-Bobby Fischer
BTW his Dad WAS a Scientist.
More true now than ever. The current world championship match has turned into opening theory, which essentially means the first 10 to 20 moves are memorized super computer lines. If you are caught out of your preparation, then you are now playing against a super computer until you manage to take them out of their lines. It's ridiculous and more-or-less pointless.
"I have one interest, only one interest: to expose the pre-arrangement; people are living in a dream world."
"And in the end, the love you take...
it's equals to the love, you've made..."
He's the most talented. Goat
Fischer is correct here..if you accept the idea...that chess is truth..which it obviously is..then that truth MUST be discovered during the course of a game.
playing theory up to move 25 may win you a game but it is not discovery...and Fischer realizes that to be the best..means to be able to discover..be able to FIND THE TRUTH...better than your opponent during the game!!
and in that....HE IS CORRECT!
Fischer randomised chess is the only way forward. Start position in bridge and poker is randomised and so should chess
+awaedin
And you could play duplicate like bridge. So it is how you do given a random uneven opening position with the pieces randomly placed on the 1st rank behind the pawns. Given a random placement, if 10% of a side wins and you do, you get more points. Or maybe a blind setup where you select your placement without knowing your opponents placement of pieces. It would stop the "slight improvement in move 18" - type of chess.
The problem is that for amateur chess audience the starting position is not dead. It's only dead for top grandmasters
TimurTolibayev it may not be dead for amateurs but it is very tedious for strongish amateurs to have to spend hours learning and revising openings.
awaedin still not enough reason to switch to FischerRandom.
+TimurTolibayev But they could start a league and try to popularize it. Maybe pay Kramnik to play only that and go for a title in Random?
Philidor.....is the guy bobby is talking about "pawns are the soul of chess",,,,is his famous saying
I definitely care for my pawns more than I used to. Endgame generally comes down to pawn/king play
2:52 chess is basically a search for truth
I love how he said nothing about kasparov """eeehhh""😅
We have nearly same profile pic 😄
My opinion:
0:38 doesn't want to delve into old chess and wants to go back to Fischer random. Very humble in answering the question as to whether or not e is the best player that ever was. But at the same time very instructive in changing the question from best player to most talented player
2:12 doesn't want to delve into old chess when asked about garry Kasparov. Very polite in refraining from criticising Kasparov.
"If you'd ask me if I'm the most talened Player, that would be a completely different Thing." - "Are you the most talented player in history?" - "Again, I think so."
Had to laught here. I deffinitely estimate him to be under the top Players but you can't really measure that. Morphy was very talented as well, espacially for a Player in his era