How Trains Replace Short Haul Flights

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  • Опубліковано 25 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 75

  • @trainworms
    @trainworms 4 місяці тому +4

    sleeper trains could do absolute wonders for overcoming medium distance flights.
    the EU needs to have a program to fix the inter city rail system like a mandate for certain minimum train frequency between cities of a certain size more rail capacity via high-speed rail will make tickets much cheaper too.

  • @A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire
    @A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire 4 місяці тому +1

    Loading gauge also makes cross-border train services harder.

  • @aputik2503
    @aputik2503 4 місяці тому +8

    yayy new tramly video

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +4

      yes ‼️🗣️

    • @aputik2503
      @aputik2503 4 місяці тому +1

      @@TheTramly it almost seems ironical that Pendolino travels at the absolute limit of conventional rail (250kmh), which means that there is demand for high speed rail here in the czech republic. Altough I don't know from which city to which we should build the Trans-Moravská Magistrála, It probably wont be Praha - brno since as we all know, time slows down in brno so reaching 250kmh+ is impossible

  • @Michaelgoestofrance
    @Michaelgoestofrance 4 місяці тому +6

    I *think* there's a law in France now that bans purely domestic flights if the train would take 2 and a half hours or less (something like that). As far as I know, from Lyon (my adopted city) to Paris only offers flights as part of a connecting flight to further destinations. The TGV is really the preferred option by most travellers who wouldn't even think of flying on what was once a busy air link.
    A 'Skyscanner' for international trains would be great. Good idea. Let's hope someone with the skills to implement such a thing is listening.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +2

      The French do have that, yes, I believe it bans flights that could be covered with a 2.5 hour train ride
      and about Skyscanner for trains, YES PLEASE

    • @counterfit5
      @counterfit5 4 місяці тому

      Don't Trainline, Omio, and others do this already?

  • @nicks4934
    @nicks4934 4 місяці тому +3

    City to city is a no brainer for 500 miles

  • @AL5520
    @AL5520 4 місяці тому +2

    This is a great video but there are a few missed things.
    First, the technical problems are not just easy to solve they already have solutions, and it's not just electric systems, as train sets and locomotives that support multiple electrical systems exists for years, and not even gauge, that you did not mentioned, as there are gauge changing trains, something we use in Spain all over with the Talgo trains that goes through gauge changers on the fly , a process that takes about 2 minutes. There is a larger problem of train control systems, that on high speed lines in a process of changing to ETCS (usually level 2) but non high speed lines still have to many different systems. There are train sets/locomotives that support more than one but not all.
    But the main problem is still bureaucratic. Instead of having a unified EU trains and train operators certification process each country has it's own which makes it harder to operate cross boarder trains and in many places they still require a change to local operators. Just imagine an airline landing at the boarder to change to local pilots and flight attendants.
    Some countries, like France, use this to delay and prevent competition with open access operators.
    The only thing that is not problematic is suitcases as in Europe (I understand that there are a few places where it can be done) begs cannot be checked.
    As for a singe ticketing system, this is very important but I don't believe that flight aggregators are responsible for lost connections as they cannot create such connection on their own. They can find an existing connection for a lower price but in the end only if the airline offers it (on their own fleet or with code sharing). There are a few aggregators, like Skyscanner that are also a travel agency and depending n the law they might have some, or full, responsibility in such cases.
    In any case there should be more responsibility by rail operators for delays and cancellations. The current EU law is too soft with too many exceptions and to much power left for individual countries to make it almost irrelative in most cases.

  • @DiamondKingStudios
    @DiamondKingStudios 4 місяці тому

    My father has been to Europe multiple times, and he admits that it is generally cheaper to fly than to take high-speed trains.
    Here in the United States, aside from international borders, we share roughly the same problems, except that we’re even more reliant on air travel. For most trips outside my state, I always went about ninety miles to Atlanta airport and then flew to wherever I needed to go.
    Unless someone decides to facilitate multi-day overnight single-seat tickets with a through
    car exchange system for transfers like we had in the 1950s (such as on New York-Chicago-LA), I’ll probably find flying to Europe easier than flying to the Western US, not accounting for customs. I understand that not everyone would be willing to spend three days one-way from coast to coast, but if it was inexpensive enough it might compete well with air travel and still provide levels of comfort airplanes would find impractical or impossible to afford to most passengers.

  • @adamcheklat7387
    @adamcheklat7387 4 місяці тому +3

    6:31: Or cross-continental, for North America’s case.

  • @ricktownend9144
    @ricktownend9144 4 місяці тому +3

    Thank you for another great video! I agree with all you say. Living in Bulgaria (great in many ways - food, scenery, housing costs, the easist Slavic language for Brits) my occasional visits to the UK have to be by plane, until high-speed rail reaches at least Sofia. Internally. BDZ has a pretty comprehensive network, almost all electrified. Diesels are used for freight branches and a few for passengers - including the enchanting and well used 125км 760mm-gauge line through the Rodopi mountains. Line speeds are increasing where reconstruction is taking place - usually up from 50 to 160 kph! Many main lines are still single track, but with sufficient passing places - usually stations with 4 tracks, so that a fast train can overtake a slow in both directions - with careful timetabling, and good time-keeping all round! Rolling stock is slowly modernising - but the trusty Škoda locomotives soldier on, taking anything they are given to haul.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +2

      Škoda locomotives 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
      About reconstruction, you're doing it faster than us Czechs💀💀💀💀

  • @valentadavid
    @valentadavid 4 місяці тому +5

    I think another reason for short haul flights existing are flights with layovers. I wouldn't fly to Munich from Prague if that is my destination, but if I then continue half across the world I'll do it.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +7

      A lot of passengers on such lines are probably connecting, yes..
      However, I think that with proper infrastructure and planning (like with Amsterdam Schiphol airport, they have a railway line stopping directly underneath the airport), those could be replaced as well

    • @petrhajduk9955
      @petrhajduk9955 4 місяці тому

      Connecting flights could be replaced by connecting trains that go directly to the terminal. Even luggage could be handled the airline way like in Vienna.

  • @jessehughes8274
    @jessehughes8274 4 місяці тому +6

    *cries in Utah*

  • @petrhajduk9955
    @petrhajduk9955 4 місяці тому +1

    I would love to see TEN-T network built to 250 km/h with city bypasses for express connections. Then competition on railway could probably bring the prices down.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +2

      Absolutely, a pan-European high speed railway network would be incredible

  • @zaitsevvadym
    @zaitsevvadym 4 місяці тому +2

    Nice video essay! Killer humour!

  • @goatgamer001
    @goatgamer001 4 місяці тому +1

    At least the Balkans besides Albania agree to use 25kV AC

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +1

      At least there's that

  • @theflyingpotato5601
    @theflyingpotato5601 4 місяці тому +1

    But as far as I know most national rail operators pretty much refuse to cooperate with operarors from other countries.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +1

      As of now, unfortunately, yes😭

  • @sterlinghartley2165
    @sterlinghartley2165 4 місяці тому +15

    Cross-border trains are something I'd love but living in the UK makes that limited. I can get a train (after getting to London) to like 3 cities. Hopefully German cities can be added soon since Eurostar and Thalys merging. Really hope the EU can get its act together and wrangle something together.

    • @szymex22
      @szymex22 4 місяці тому

      DB tried it, didn’t work out due to safety regulations in the tunnel.

    • @f.g.9466
      @f.g.9466 4 місяці тому +4

      The EU?? The restrictions are on the UK side, there's nothing for the EU to sort.
      The Channel Tunnel has some complicated technical restrictions which condition what rolling stock can be used, which then leads to compatibility issues. It also has limited capacity.
      But most importantly, the border issue since the UK chose to be outside of Schengen is a very limiting factor.
      Nowadays with the need for more and more strict border and customs checks, any station with international services to the UK will need designated areas for border checks, restricted waiting areas and exclusive restricted platforms. The international trains to the UK also can't be used for domestic journeys within the EU unlike the other Eurostar/international services.
      So it's a nuisance to operate with extra costs.
      In the past DB has tried to introduce services but was forced to quit. Eurostar also planned a regional service to other parts of the UK and it had to give up.
      Amsterdam is rebuilding the central station and one of the things that will be done is preparing areas and platforms for the UK services. But it's not viable for a large number of destinations to prepare for out of Schengen services.
      You won't see direct services to Disneyland or ski resorts, and you probably won't see direct services to Germany either, you will have to rely on connecting trains.
      You can reach 5 cities in 3 countries, all of which are hubs with domestic and international connections to other regions in Europe.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +3

      That'd be nice, however as other people said, due to the UK leaving Schengen, the benefits won't be as huge (due to having to undergo border checks and stuff)

    • @sterlinghartley2165
      @sterlinghartley2165 4 місяці тому

      @@f.g.9466 The EU bit is more about how much of a pain Cross-border travel in the EU.
      Obvs the Channel issue is the UK's own stupid fault I just didn't wanna start rambling about Brexit by mistake.
      The UK doesn't even bother with international stations in the UK, you got the terminus and that's all.

    • @marcogeurts9881
      @marcogeurts9881 4 місяці тому +2

      Amsterdam Centraal is being rebuild due to the expected large travel figures in the future​@@TheTramly

  • @futurerails8421
    @futurerails8421 4 місяці тому +1

    The biggest problem is the lack of high speed routes in east-west direction to and inside the former eastern block not even Berlin to Warsaw is high speed. Generally high speed routes in east-west direction, connecting the former west with the former east and even Austria to France are difficult because of terrain. Poland to BeNeLux and France over Berlin is literally the only "low hanging fruit", everything further south than Berlin encounters a nasty problem: The southern 2/3s of Germany are divided east to west by hilly terrain but not hilly enough to create the demand for high speed rail lines there. Even international routes from and to Germany like Frankfurt to Vienna work somewhat well the problem only comes with even longer routes. This poses the problem for politicans to justify the spending of tax money on a route that mostly benefits for example France and Hungary. The EU needs to plan such lines and pay for them.

  • @nashorn9745
    @nashorn9745 4 місяці тому

    The only way the train network in Europe will get better is through liberalization. There is national rail operators that will fight nail and tooth to not have competition like SBB. It is way too expensive to standardize the entire rail network the best way is a classic train where you can switch engines most UIC cars can run in the entire EU.

  • @QuarioQuario54321
    @QuarioQuario54321 2 місяці тому

    Would this apply to small planes with only 50 seats going to small towns that are not big enough to sustain having a rail line fast enough to be competitive? And what about connections which would now have to be in the city center, especially for cities where the airport is really far from the center.

  • @robertheinrich2994
    @robertheinrich2994 4 місяці тому +3

    you are pushing an important topic. there are some approaches, but it is still not enough.
    in austria, the thing is simple for me, I have the klimaticket, done. no need for anything else. but the second I go beyond, things fall apart.
    so, pushing this issue is important.
    and greetings from vienna.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +4

      Absolutely, we need to work together on a continent-wide level to truly begin replacing international short haul flights with trains

  • @tdb7992
    @tdb7992 4 місяці тому +3

    You Europeans have no idea how lucky you are. We have pretty decent public transport in Australia = it's certainly of a higher standard than you'd see in the US, but nowhere near as good as in Europe.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +2

      I'm grateful for our infrastructure, but it certainly could be better
      but yes, we have it good compared to the US and parts of Australia 💀💀

    • @lars7935
      @lars7935 4 місяці тому +1

      The main issues in Europe are under investment in some countries (looking at Germany) and a lack in coordination.
      Tickets and timetables are not synchronised between countries and sometimes even regions.

    • @spdfatomicstructure
      @spdfatomicstructure 4 місяці тому

      And even then it’s really only in the megacities where good public transport exists. Go to Hobart, and public transport becomes crap. Launceston, Burnie and Devonport are even worse

  • @szymex22
    @szymex22 4 місяці тому

    I guess UA-cam deleted my comment, so I have to write it again.
    Tons of people I know drive 1000km+ to see their family or for vacation, personally I think the argument about flights is a bit overblown, they are less convenient especially from medium size cities where to get to many places you need a layover, which is stressful and not efficient time wise. The railways are a great alternative even for such long journeys, as even if you miss a transfer, the next train is usually in 1 hour.
    A trick in terms of through tickets is to buy them from deutsche bahn, they have most of the operators and you have more customer rights when you buy 1 ticket instead of multiple e.g if you miss a connection.
    Electrification is a non-issue these days - like you said multi system locomotives solve this problem.

  • @kailahmann1823
    @kailahmann1823 4 місяці тому +1

    Sadly you ignore the aspect of *speed*. All four examples shown in the map HAVE a direct and must more frequent train connection, which is called "high speed rail" by the respective country which is also cheaper (except for London-Amsterdam, if those 225€ are right), but the travel time is around 4 hours each (3 for Stockholm-Gothenburg), compared to around 1 hour by flight. Madrid-Barcelona is 2 1/2 hours by train with costs you 30€ - they STILL have flights. Why? Because they are slightly faster…
    This also completely kills the idea of completely replacing longer trips with trains like Prag-Amsterdam: While the current 12 hours are probably far away from the fastest imaginable, you'd have to beat a flight of 1 1/2 hours.

    • @F4URGranted
      @F4URGranted 4 місяці тому +7

      Your comment sadly ignores the fact that airports are in far away, inconvenient locations, which can take hours to get to and park or arrive at. This doesnt include any sort of security either, which could take hours, considering most airlines ask for you to get to an airport two hours in advance. Adding this time up, as well as getting from your destination's far away airport to its city, adds more delays and expensive travel. You cant just travel wherever you want by air

    • @kailahmann1823
      @kailahmann1823 4 місяці тому

      @@F4URGranted that's why only very few people choose to fly those very short trips: those, who in fact want to get from one airport to another. Those mentioned three flights probably have a combined capacity of a half train...
      But once the distance gets longer, air travel gains a real time advantage.

    • @mrmaniac3
      @mrmaniac3 4 місяці тому +1

      @@F4URGranted and it takes a certain misguided faith in flight to consider it a reliable way to get where you're going. That flight is going to be delayed and canceled, you will sit for hours in the airport, your flight will be laid over at the wrong destination, and even ideally, the time it takes going to and from the airport at the start and end of the flight, respectively, will add the total up to be the same amount of time as the train trip or longer.

    • @lws7394
      @lws7394 4 місяці тому +2

      ​@@mrmaniac3 delays are not unique to planes ....
      ( ..say ..Deutsche Bahn ..)

    • @f.g.9466
      @f.g.9466 4 місяці тому +3

      Misguided comment.
      The opening of HS rail Madrid-Barcelona has reduced dramatically the number of air passengers and flights between the two destinations, specially now when there's competition (3 companies) on that line with incredible prices.
      Flights are only appealing to a group of travellers, and those are the ones who are connecting to long haul flights and therefore need to go to an airport.
      As others have explained it's a lot faster to use rail from city center to city center than all the extra time needed to get to and from airports and the extra waiting time before and after flight. I won't do the calculations for Madrid-BCN now, but just the other day someone was telling me that flights between Munich and Venice take only 45min. I did the calculations and that journey would end up taking longer than 4h (optimistic, closer to 5h or more if realistic) from city center to city center.
      But if you're travelling from a different continent (Madrid is an important hub for the Americas and Africa) then it's easier to take a short connecting flight to Bcn than going downtown for a train.
      When you have all of these factors and added time into account, high speed rail is almost always faster in distances up to 500Km. At 600Km/700Km it's still very competitive. Above 800Km or 900Km flying will be faster in most cases. This is a broad generalisation of course.
      But if your main concern is time then rail has another trick up in the sleeve.
      Which takes me back to the pair Munich-Venice. There's no high speed rail between the two, conventional rail takes several hours and wouldn't be faster than flying. But there are night trains. Slow night trains that even stop manoeuvres in the middle of the night. But you go to bed at night in Venice and wake up the next morning in Munich. No need to waste 4h or 5h of your day time on travelling to airports and waiting around.
      Nightrains are coming back again in Europe with more routes being added every year. And destinations pairs like Prague-Amd where you say flying is much faster than rail are perfect destination pairs for much more convenient night rail.

  • @SmrdiTiBabka
    @SmrdiTiBabka 4 місяці тому +1

    I hope you are at least 60. So that we can enjoy feasible railroads before you are put into the retirement home :)

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +1

      I'm not💀
      I've got quite a long amount of time before that

  • @nicks4934
    @nicks4934 4 місяці тому +1

    The EU will introduce carbon tax to discourage short haul flights.

    • @TheTramly
      @TheTramly  4 місяці тому +1

      If the money raised goes towards rail infrastructure, great!

  • @SmrdiTiBabka
    @SmrdiTiBabka 4 місяці тому

    I love you ❤

  • @dyamineu5246
    @dyamineu5246 4 місяці тому

    I recently booked a flight from Basel / Mulhouse to Bordeaux, the only reason I chose a flight over a train trip was the ticket price. Make trains cheaper not flying more expensive. The best way to do this would be by making train systems autonomous (as they are well suited for it) and have them continuously running.