Many thanks to Synth DIY Guy for testing out our samples. Feel free to have a look at our manufactured MINI Plug MIDI cables: www.excelvalley.com/product/mini-plug-midi-cables/
Man this was driving me crazy. I have a Korg Electribe and I wanted to connect it to an Arturia Microfreak, but it just wouldn´t work. Can I buy a cable like this one instead of making it myself? Thanks!
Can you use this to connect a midi signal from yamaha p-90 to a focusrite 2i box(the one with midi is to steep for me). I saw that this is done on the IK Multimedia iRig Pro. Thanks.
Hi! No, the 2i has no midi input or output. This video is about interconnecting gear that has small 3.5mm jacks for MIDI but vary in the wiring polarity.
Ok just one more quick question( thanks for answering me so quickly). Can you then use the internal card for midi and the audio interface(say a 2i) for other things at the same time. If this is to off topic I understand, btw very instructive video(especially on how to detect shorts!)
Indeed, ours is DIN to 3.5mm. But also wanted to provide here an answer to the question concerning the mono plug, 2 wires or TS jack. Which should also be demonstrated with our DIN cable with TS jack and the overview table on the page. It is quite interesting to ditch the DIN connectors and cables. We will have a look to manufacture the TRS/TRS cable as described in the vid. If you, or anyone else, would have any idea which lengths would be preferable, feel free to let us know (contact here or through our website: www.excelvalley.com/contact-us/). The Beststeap standard uses a TS connector with the following connection: Tip to Pin 3, Sleeve to Pin 5. We will also have a look if it would also be interesting to manufacture TRS/TS cables, which would need 2 versions.
I think you should make a small female to male adapter inverting tip to ring, that way the user can use any length cable they need, and such cables are readily available anywhere for cheap. Just my 2c ;)
As Quincas already pointed out, the industry should come to a consensus on this. There was indeed no standard on MIDI TRS and each brand seems just to have made a choice. As the choices with TRS are very limited and the sleeve is normally used as shield, the industry has ended up with two types. As most brands have already made their choice and have produced and sold products, it seems highly unlikely any brand would want to change anymore to one standard (if it is not the choice they have made in the first place).
Just commenting because I see a couple comments saying that the industry should come to a consensus. The MIDI Manufacturers Association actually released this July 26th this year (2018). www.midi.org/articles-old/trs-specification-adopted-and-released There is a diagram there, and a link to download the spec, but you have to sign-up first. I hope it's good enough that all the vendors agree.
That's the way forward, let's just hope manufacturers see the benefit of not enforcing multiple cables, and drivers onto people. It's so niche I doubt any standards body, or regulator will be interested, so it's all down to the industry
Cable shilds connected to Vref (0V) on both ends of a shielded cable, is pretty bad design. I actually guess one could win a price for "worst design" with that one! Abusing cheap audio signal connectors as serial connectors, while using the excuse of smaller form factor, is already very bad design. But one would not expect much more of Korg or Make Noise anyways, I guess.
@@QuincasMoreira Which part works fine? Creating ground loops on shielded cables through out the shielding connected on both ends to different potentials of Vref (0V), for giving hum a better chance? Or the serial via audio connectors part?
Sebastian Gruber-Kersting midi data gets transfered with no audible hum. I suspect the midi inputs in the receiving devices have the shield disconnected, so only one end of the shield is grounded.
@@QuincasMoreira It is true that a digital signal like midi does not come with analog hum, but the shielding can create hum on the Vref (0V/Gnd) plane, when the shielding is connected on both sides, since the two devices, the sender and the receiver do not have the same path length to ground and from that a different potential to common Gnd, while the shield catches signals from the digital serial lines, as well as environment (analog wires around). A different path length to Vref (Gnd/0V) according to Ohms law have different resistances, and the one with the lesser resistance has a lower potential, having current flowing from the higher potential to the lower potential. That is physics, and works also between 2 different Vref(Gnd) of different potential, e.g. 12µV above common Gnd in one device and the other 7µV above common Gnd in the other device. As a result we would see a potential diference of 5 µV on those two common Gnd lines and without galvanic separation an electric current will be flowing between the devices. Since there is no perfet common Gnd, the potential of each common Gnd (Vref) varies on the changing loads by OpAmps etc. pp. . And the outcome of that laws of physics about potential differences is commonly hum injected via Vref (Gnd/0V) in such a scenario. Depending on the voltages involved, such loops can even be a threat for the electronic parts involved, sometimes even a threat to health along with higher voltages. That is why shields on any sort of transmission line are always connected to Vref (0V/Gnd) only on one side, to prevent loops between devices, and the signal is galvanic wise separated at least on the reciever side, e.g. for an "AC signal" by at least a capacitor (e.g. >= 400 VDC rated for small signal AC ... like some polypropylene impulse-cap) in the signal path, to prevent DC currents flowing from one device into another, or even better by some miniature 1:1 galvanic separation transformer; and with an opto-coupler (>5kV isolation) for DC/digital signals. And when it comes to the shielding for the signals, the sender/emitter side is expected to offer the shielding, since its signals refer to that potential. In your video it did look like you were about to connecting the cable shielding to Vref (0V/Gnd) on the receiver side, and this is something you shouldn't do really under any circumstance with any electric device. But perhaps I got it wrong, when I watched the video, when it comes to that aspect? I'll watch it again!
Yes! This is the exact information I needed. Thank you!
Happy to help!
Many thanks to Synth DIY Guy for testing out our samples. Feel free to have a look at our manufactured MINI Plug MIDI cables: www.excelvalley.com/product/mini-plug-midi-cables/
Yes! and thank you for all the samples, the adapters work perfectly :)
Excellent job! Works fine for me!
great!
Awesome thanks for this!
Man this was driving me crazy. I have a Korg Electribe and I wanted to connect it to an Arturia Microfreak, but it just wouldn´t work.
Can I buy a cable like this one instead of making it myself? Thanks!
Look for Excell Valley, they make such cables/adapters
Can you use this to connect a midi signal from yamaha p-90 to a focusrite 2i box(the one with midi is to steep for me). I saw that this is done on the IK Multimedia iRig Pro. Thanks.
Hi! No, the 2i has no midi input or output. This video is about interconnecting gear that has small 3.5mm jacks for MIDI but vary in the wiring polarity.
Ok just one more quick question( thanks for answering me so quickly). Can you then use the internal card for midi and the audio interface(say a 2i) for other things at the same time. If this is to off topic I understand, btw very instructive video(especially on how to detect shorts!)
Hi! How it’s possible that beatstep (not pro) uses mini plug mono. Does it mean there is only 2 wires???
yes indeed! The third wire would be ground for shielding, and it's not essential for data transmission.
Indeed, that is correct. We have this cable currently available in the White color: www.excelvalley.com/product/midi-adapter-breakout-cables/
not this cable exactly. Yours in DIN to 3.5mm, mine is 3.5mm on both ends, but inverted so both brands can talk to each other.
Indeed, ours is DIN to 3.5mm. But also wanted to provide here an answer to the question concerning the mono plug, 2 wires or TS jack. Which should also be demonstrated with our DIN cable with TS jack and the overview table on the page.
It is quite interesting to ditch the DIN connectors and cables. We will have a look to manufacture the TRS/TRS cable as described in the vid. If you, or anyone else, would have any idea which lengths would be preferable, feel free to let us know (contact here or through our website: www.excelvalley.com/contact-us/).
The Beststeap standard uses a TS connector with the following connection: Tip to Pin 3, Sleeve to Pin 5. We will also have a look if it would also be interesting to manufacture TRS/TS cables, which would need 2 versions.
I think you should make a small female to male adapter inverting tip to ring, that way the user can use any length cable they need, and such cables are readily available anywhere for cheap. Just my 2c ;)
was that an attempt by Korg and Arturia to form some sort of product dependency? 0:46
who knows! I think it was just parallel development. The industry should come to a consensus on this though.
As Quincas already pointed out, the industry should come to a consensus on this. There was indeed no standard on MIDI TRS and each brand seems just to have made a choice. As the choices with TRS are very limited and the sleeve is normally used as shield, the industry has ended up with two types. As most brands have already made their choice and have produced and sold products, it seems highly unlikely any brand would want to change anymore to one standard (if it is not the choice they have made in the first place).
Just commenting because I see a couple comments saying that the industry should come to a consensus. The MIDI Manufacturers Association actually released this July 26th this year (2018). www.midi.org/articles-old/trs-specification-adopted-and-released There is a diagram there, and a link to download the spec, but you have to sign-up first. I hope it's good enough that all the vendors agree.
That's the way forward, let's just hope manufacturers see the benefit of not enforcing multiple cables, and drivers onto people. It's so niche I doubt any standards body, or regulator will be interested, so it's all down to the industry
new sub, thanks
thanks!
For those of us who like diagrams and pinouts: cdm.link/2015/08/used-stereo-minijack-cables-midi/
awesome link, thanks!
When you want to safe yourself the trouble, feel free to have a look: www.excelvalley.com/product/mini-plug-midi-cables/
Cable shilds connected to Vref (0V) on both ends of a shielded cable, is pretty bad design. I actually guess one could win a price for "worst design" with that one!
Abusing cheap audio signal connectors as serial connectors, while using the excuse of smaller form factor, is already very bad design. But one would not expect much more of Korg or Make Noise anyways, I guess.
works fine
@@QuincasMoreira Which part works fine?
Creating ground loops on shielded cables through out the shielding connected on both ends to different potentials of Vref (0V), for giving hum a better chance?
Or the serial via audio connectors part?
Sebastian Gruber-Kersting midi data gets transfered with no audible hum. I suspect the midi inputs in the receiving devices have the shield disconnected, so only one end of the shield is grounded.
@@QuincasMoreira It is true that a digital signal like midi does not come with analog hum, but the shielding can create hum on the Vref (0V/Gnd) plane, when the shielding is connected on both sides, since the two devices, the sender and the receiver do not have the same path length to ground and from that a different potential to common Gnd, while the shield catches signals from the digital serial lines, as well as environment (analog wires around).
A different path length to Vref (Gnd/0V) according to Ohms law have different resistances, and the one with the lesser resistance has a lower potential, having current flowing from the higher potential to the lower potential. That is physics, and works also between 2 different Vref(Gnd) of different potential, e.g. 12µV above common Gnd in one device and the other 7µV above common Gnd in the other device. As a result we would see a potential diference of 5 µV on those two common Gnd lines and without galvanic separation an electric current will be flowing between the devices.
Since there is no perfet common Gnd, the potential of each common Gnd (Vref) varies on the changing loads by OpAmps etc. pp. . And the outcome of that laws of physics about potential differences is commonly hum injected via Vref (Gnd/0V) in such a scenario. Depending on the voltages involved, such loops can even be a threat for the electronic parts involved, sometimes even a threat to health along with higher voltages.
That is why shields on any sort of transmission line are always connected to Vref (0V/Gnd) only on one side, to prevent loops between devices, and the signal is galvanic wise separated at least on the reciever side, e.g. for an "AC signal" by at least a capacitor (e.g. >= 400 VDC rated for small signal AC ... like some polypropylene impulse-cap) in the signal path, to prevent DC currents flowing from one device into another, or even better by some miniature 1:1 galvanic separation transformer; and with an opto-coupler (>5kV isolation) for DC/digital signals. And when it comes to the shielding for the signals, the sender/emitter side is expected to offer the shielding, since its signals refer to that potential.
In your video it did look like you were about to connecting the cable shielding to Vref (0V/Gnd) on the receiver side, and this is something you shouldn't do really under any circumstance with any electric device. But perhaps I got it wrong, when I watched the video, when it comes to that aspect? I'll watch it again!