Can Technology Produce Small Subwoofers With Big Bass?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- In an earlier video we discussed why speakers have gotten smaller, but we neglected to answer if the same technologies could produce small subwoofers with big bass.
Axiom Engineer Andrew Welker explains the progression from table-sized subwoofers to small subwoofer enclosures, how amplifier power figures in, and DSP technology.
If you've ever looked at a small cube subwoofer and wondered if it sounds any good, Andrew gives you the scoop.
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I tend to think Bob Carver and his Sunfire company started this arms race towards tiny subwoofers. At the time, his bombastic power ratings for his subwoofers and amps stood out in the sea of audiophile marketing, and there was nothing like it at the time. I'm fortunate in that I have plenty of space for a sub. An EP800 fits perfectly in the corner. Hmm...
Yes, I believe Carver was the first in a long line of kilowatt micro-subs. If space does not matter, bigger subs are preferable.
When I read the comment in your previous video about subs, I thought he was bringing up the fact that speakers don't need to be as big because the bass is diverted to a sub. That seemed like the obvious answer to why speakers got smaller, but I very much enjoyed your more technical answer explaining how they could become smaller and still produce good bass.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the explanation.
Another great video Andrew! Both on professional sound reinforcement and home audio we have seen a significant reduction in cabinet and driver sizes over the past 40 years. I used to own what would be considered huge home stereo speakers and my instrument cabinets were 2x15", 8x10" or 4x12" drivers in refrigerator or half refrigerator cabinets that were back-breaking weights (Peavey, Ampeg and Marshall). Today my home system is much smaller in size and loaded with 6" & 8" drivers in ported cabinets and my instrument cabinets are also smaller with 4x10" drivers with bullet horn tweeters (Mark bass and Dave Eden). Still, I find that the bass to be "tighter" in the smaller enclosures but no less butt-kicking that the huge cabs and my back is generally much happier! Ahhh...progress :-)
Progress indeed! Thanks for sharing.
Very well explained it’s satisfactory
Great video. You could do an entire series just on this subject.
The only things I would have included are an explanations of: 1) how much air needs to be moved in order to create bass at different frequencies and volume levels. 2) Individual preferences for bass volume. 3) How prices comes into play in order to get quality bass from a small cube. As you said, it's all about compromise, and each person needs to figure out what they want or else some salesperson ends up selling them a subwoofer the size of a deck of cards. FYI, I live in a high rise condo, and my old Velo DD-12 is MORE than enough for my needs. Heck, even the DD-10 was. If I want more. bass, I can always add bass shakers (am a big fan). If I lived in a regular home, I'd feel quite differently and would have a dedicated theater with a gigantic sub. Again, it's all about compromises, and the most important compromise is the one you make with your significant other. :D
Yes, you’re absolutely correct, it is always a compromise. Some people will absolutely not allow a massive subwoofer in their living room!
There’s no replacement for displacement.
Good deep bass is expensive and takes up a lot of space.
Liked and shared.
So question, is there and ideal tower to subwoofer driver size that allows for better, more even, seamless integration, better matched driver sizes etc ?
For instance, I've got towers, each with a 1" tweeter and two 6.5" mid & 'bass' drivers, matched with Dual 12" Subs. Would I be better suited with a pair of 10" subs? My dedicated HT room is W18ft X L14ft X H15ft (yea long wall setup for better soundstage).
Not really. If the subwoofer is well designed it really should not matter. I know that some believe smaller woofers in subs are “faster” but this is not necessarily the case. Your 12” subs will work just as well as a pair of 10” subs if they are of a similar design.
Can't beat dual subs and bass management. Andrew, really want to hear an engineers take on speaker cables, inter-connects, and power cables. Maybe speaker break in too. I keep hearing a lot of differing opinions. Thanks.
I’ll need a new flame-proof suit to discuss those topics publicly. On a more serious note, I have been thinking about a break-in video. Stay tuned!
@@AxiomHomeTheaters If the evidence is on your side, please do. I'm jaded by the audiophile press, social media influencers, and manufacturers who don't or won't reveal the vast knowledge base that's accumulated in spite of them. Taking advice from an audio engineer instead of a typical audiophile is like discovering the cook that knows how to shop the farmers and wet markets rather than the Williams Sonoma store.
@@status101-danielho6 Hahaha, thanks Daniel, that’s a great analogy!
you opened up Pandora’s box in mentioning porting. so why do some subs have ports and others do not? i know you touched on the micro small subs not having space. but Axioms EP350 and bellow are all ported but the EP500 and above are not. WHY?
i’ve got dual EP500 and could not be happier in most cases it’s almost like i’ve got more bass than i need. (yes it sounds impossible but true. when the room feels like it’s moving in sonic shock it’s enough for me)
what do ports actually do and the difference between ported and sealed subs.
Well, the downside with ports is that they can product some vent noise at high levels. In our DSP subwoofers I wanted to have ideal control over the drivers, which was allowed by the use of a DSP, and no mechanical noises of any kind. In our smaller subwoofers without DSP control, we need to squeeze as much natural bass output from the system as possible because of the amplifier power available in those models. In that case the ports were a good compromise.
If I understand correctly, the massive power that’s now available with (built in) class D amplifiers and DSP are what allowed the size reduction of subs.
1. How about the « transmission lines » that were used inside speakers at some point, were they meant to help with bass response?
2. How about tower speakers with built in subs, why isn’t Axiom offering those (those are very popular with the house authorities who prefer to have fewer devices)
3. Did you say that passive drivers also contribute to the ability to have smaller subs? Are they a good option?
Thanks.
Correct. Transmission lines are a different form of loading a woofer, like a sealed or ported box. They can be very, very good if well designed, but they require large and very complex cabinet construction.
Towers with built-in subs were very popular for a few years, and I designed a few for another company, but frankly they were not welcomed by most consumers. I have never figured out why.
Passive radiators are pretty much the only option, other than a sealed enclosure, for small subwoofers as ports would be impossible to tune correctly.
Bass is often described as ""warm". When it come to the 1500watt micro subwoofers they are referring to their room heating ability.
Good point, although modern Class D power amps don’t run very warm!
hi, could you do a vid exploring the different speaker technology in the latest drivers available in high end ?
That’s a good topic and one I’ll put some thought into. There are a number of new drivers that I don’t have first hand experience with, but I can certainly look at doing an overview.
Technology is always getting better. However, just because it is doesn't mean there aren't errors. Trying to cut corners, especially on sound, will be detrimental. DSP can make sound better with subs, but just using THAT will not make it great. Size DOES matter. It must be a big size for deep bass.
Yes, absolutely correct. Things like DSP are tools…they cannot be a crutch to make a badly designed subwoofer into a good one.
I came know about Yamaha Active Servo Technology (YST) while I was with Yamaha Audio Video Manufacturing in Ipoh City, state of Perak, Malaysia.
Your videos bring back my interest in speakers design & sound....
Fascinating…I remember the YST technology in some small subwoofers many years ago. I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos, thank you!
Is there a minimum size or ratio to driver size where diminishing marginal returns of performance overshadow aesthetics? Obviously subjective but hope the question makes sense.
Well, that really depends on what you find aesthetic. These days a good 6.5” based system is kind of the sweet spot, at least it seems this way. I have no problem with 8” drivers, but beyond that the cabinet baffles need to get really wide.
Yeah it can be done with all the problems and limitations you describe but I've never been a big fan of compact subwoofers. For me the absolute best bass quality comes from open baffle with lots of large drivers to get a lot of surface area or in second place, infinite baffle. Large sealed can work fairly well but small sealed not so much and ported definitely not.
I’m also not a fan of “micro” subs. Interesting that you say open baffle…you need a LOT of surface area to get decent output and extension. But if you have the space…
@@AxiomHomeTheaters I'm using eight 15" drivers on each side of the room, they do pretty well but I'm also going to install eight 18" Dayton Ultimax drivers in infinite baffle (in the attic) to handle about 27 Hz down to about 10 Hz.
@@mfkhometheater7742 That must be an extremely effortless and impressive system for bass performance. That’s a lot of woofer surface area!
@@AxiomHomeTheaters Yeah even with just the dipole subs it's pretty impressive. I can't wait to get the 18" IB woofers going, that should really shake the house. I had to do something with massive capacity just to keep up with the big CBT arrays for the mains and center. Those things are more what one would expect to see in a 1500 seat auditorium than a 14 seat home theater.
@@mfkhometheater7742 I bet they will be very impressive!
Could you give the reason why you guys don't make the EP400 anymore. Mine still works great and I have it paired with an EP125. It's enough bass for my living room.
We can still make an EP400, we do custom orders all the time. Glad to hear you're happy with it!
@@AxiomHomeTheaters Oh! That's good to know.
When the watt became cheap everything changed
The laws of physics can be broken btw don't always follow spec's n other people's information, go off your own knowledge from trial and error
there's sand in your audio 😭
What made is that Axiom sir
That’s an EP125 subwoofer.
2000 Watts ? I don’t get it . Doesn’t a typical 15 amp 120 V outlet could only provide up to 1800W with the best conditions ?
Probably not RMS and you also need to take into account power factor.
I own a small Velodyne (my only non Axiom speaker) that is very impressive but draws a massive amount of electricity. I had to put it on its own electrical circuit as it continually tripped a shared circuit.
It’s likely it really does have a very high power amplifier, so I’m not surprised it needs a dedicated circuit.