Schiit Valhalla 2 or Asgard 3 -- Which should you buy?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Prompted by a question about whether to buy the Valhalla 2 as a first tube amp, I take you through the benefits of both with a couple of pairs of common headphones.
Note: The Asgard 3 was only being used as an amp for this comparison. The DAC card wasn't being used.
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Don't know how you manage to put out a video for every question I've had so far about the schiit product range but I'm not complaining.
Great informative reviews on your channel, thank you.
I think you're one of the best audio reviewers going, clear, information packed, very useful, thanks much!
Very informative for the ones that are not familiar with the impedance matching.
Not many video explain about this issue in such as clear way.
The majority just tell the matching pair without giving the whole picture.
Very useful, and thanks in behalf of those who did not know about that (it took a while for me to know about that several years ago).
You know what? Thanks for explaining how to use the gain switch correctly. I was listening to the Vali on Aeons and couldn’t figure out why it suddenly felt so muddy… turned the gain switch down… much better control, speed.
Thanks!
Just bought WA7 fireflies second hand. Just using it as a headphone amp on my Mac. Next acquisition will be a pair of Sundara headphones. You have a great channel keep up the good work.
Great comparison!!
I personally love the smooth Tube sound output from Tube Amps with my Senn HD6XX. Also they look outstanding on the table LOL
Thank you for this. I asked Amos back in August about the choice between the Asgard and the Valhalla, 'cause tubes. He explained in his response what he has put here for all to learn from. I have Senn HD 600 660 and HD 25, Beyer 770 250 ohm and a Master and Dynamic MH40. Then after I got the Asgard I sprang for the Sundara's, again on Amos's advice. I'm old and was a Marine around fixed and rotary wing aircraft so my hearing is suspect enough to preclude me as an objective listener but for myself, this gear blows me away. My stack is Bifrost/Asgard with a Loki on top. The Loki I got because my stuff from the 70's or so benefited from EQ. It stays flat, I never touch it. My headphones of choice are... split between the Sundara's and the 600/660s. They sound different but they all sound good. Don't ask me to go beyond they sound different, because my determination of the distinction is nebulous at best. However, ... tubes. Last week I ordered the Lyr.
So that got me to thinking about tube rolling... Oh Schiit!
Why must all this gear be so desirable? Glad you are enjoying your stuff man.
I use a Valhalla 2 with Shure SRH1540 which have a 46 ohm impedance and they sound great! 👍
Been in the hobby since 2012 and learnt something new. Amos with the good info!
Pure tubes might be fun, but it's hard to beat the Asgard 3 that sounds excellent and can play all impedances of headphones for $200.
I love my lyr 3. It has the power for any headphone and the difference in tubes is pretty incredible from a hybrid imo.
Jeez... thanks for this. Good, basic discussion about tube amp factors that is so lacking out there. Cheers
Great content as always. One question, between an fully loaded Asgard with Multibit module or a THX AAA 789 from Drop, which one would you rather have? ignoring the price difference, purely based on sound.
The THX amp has balanced output and that is it's strength. If you don't plan on using anything balanced then I would just go with the Asgard 3. However, the Schiit DAC modules aren't that great, so I would get an external DAC to go along with it instead.
@@brydon10 Schiit Asgard 3 and Modius is a nice combo now. (Months later)
Hot amps sound great - typically. I have high respect for the 6922 (6DJ8) tube, very musical and capable.
I am using Valhalla 2 with my Denon AH-D9200's (24 ohm) with no sound quality issues. It does run very hot.
from Schiit website: "While most tube OTL amps are really only designed for 300 ohm Senns and 600 ohm Beyers, Valhalla 2 stretches to include headphones that you’d never expect to use with a tube amp. Go ahead. Use it with Grados. Run it with AKGs. Rely on it for many IEMs. You may even like it with high-efficiency planars like LCD-X, LCD-XC, Oppo PM-1 and HE-400."
there is something not matching between Schiit's adv and your explanation (yours is what I've always understood!)
It's simply the difference between what simply can be done, versus what is ideal. You can pull a trailer with a small car, but it isn't ideal.
@@Currawong have you tried any Grado through the Valhalla 2? As their is a lot of user experiences of this being a very synergistic match. On paper it sounds like it shouldn’t work well, but lots of people’s subjective experience seems to differ. Grado are very sensitive headphones so would probably have enough power.
Have one small issue with something said here… I rolled all four tubes. The output tubes can be switched out for 7119/E182CC with the proper pinout adapter - and of course you want these tubes to be closely matched. After making this change I could hear the differences between the various preamp tubes I was rolling much more easily, and overall the signal was more clean, solid and detailed. I highly recommend trying this in the Valhalla 2, especially with high impedance headphones.
Thanks for that!
@@Currawong if you still have a V2 I would love to see you try this combination out for yourself. A really interesting preamp tube in this configuration is the Philips or BEL made 6922 A frames from the 1960s. A somewhat holographic sound, slightly airy and good bass. I’ve had so much fun with this amp!
Informative. Have the Vali 2 and that's another good budget choice.
Perfect video. My V2 is stunning with HD650. Unlistenable with sundara.
I've owned the Valhalla for a couple years and I've never understood what the point of it is or how to use it well. I think it sounds bad with the 6XX because the amp and phones are both smooth, which makes it a totally fatiguing pair-up. What I really want out of this amp is a darker, more magical, funkier sound. I'm disappointed in it overall and it collects dust.
The Asgard 3 is probably Schiit's best amp and I use it every day.
My 250 OHM Beyerdynamics sound better on the Lyr 3. I just don't think the Valhalla is a good amp overall, I'd like to see them massively redesign it, perhaps for a different kind of tube or single tube or with some other wizardry in its next iteration.
And the Vali 2 was also preferable with the 6XX especially.
If there's ever a Valhalla 3 I hope for a massive redesign. Something perhaps with a balanced section that can be tube and SS or is just so different from SS and isn't fatiguing. Maybe a SS with a different tuning than Schiit has ever done, I really want them to go to the dark side, perhaps warmish. Something other than the Schiit neutral house sound.
The Jotunheim is what you're thinking of. It doesn't stray far from "neutral" but has a circuit more like what a tube amp has, is a touch warmer, and has more depth to the sound. If you combine it with a Bifrost 2 (I haven't got the 64 in yet) then it goes quite a bit in the "warm" direction.
@@Currawong Thanks for replying, Currawong. Does the Jotunheim 2 sound different much from the Asgard 3? I have one and enjoy it every day with Aeon Noir. The class-A has been addicting since I got it.
It has more clarity from memory (using the balanced output). The Asgard 3 and Jotunheim are both optimised Class A/B.
@@Currawong Thanks, yeah, I want one but I would have to get balanced cables and I'm already too far invested into the cable I have now. LOVE Schiit's SS amps though, Jot 2 is on the list for sure!
@@therazmatazz732so for the dr 1990 pro the lyrics 3 is better then the asgard 3 for sound? I need. good music and sound
I have the HD650 and Sundara and I must say that in my opinion the Sundara is vastly overrated, but what are its sonic qualities?
I find it with a cold tone, not musical and pleasant and imprecise in the mids, the hd650 sacrifices some details but otherwise we are on another level.
or a Darkvoice?
How does the Magnius stack up against these?
It's odd to me that in this whole video you never once mention that there is a difference in sound between a solid state, hybrid, and tube amp. It's not just about how much you want to spend and the impedance of your headphones. It's also very strange to compare dac/amp combos to a dedicated tube amp - that's apples and oranges. Lastly, the Valhalla 2 works quite well with most headphones with an impedance of more than 28 ohms, though as you mentioned planars aren't a great match because of their low sensitivity, not so much their ohm rating.
Thanks for the feedback. Amp sound differences depend on the individual designs, and with tube amps, the tubes used.
I wasn't comparing a DAC/amp combo in this case, as the Asgard 3 was being used as an amp only. I probably should have specified that.
I agree as for the music I like the tubes give it a different sound, more old school and rolled off where the SS amps are more in your face and sharp edged. I actually own a Molinjar 2, Valhalla 2 and an Asgard 3.
Also the same with like the Schiit multibit dacs again too me and my preferences for Music I prefer the multibit sound signature paired with a tube amp. Again I have a Gungnir multibit paired with the Molinjar, a Modi Uber paired with the Asgard which I use for my gaming set up and pairing a Modi multibit with the Valhalla 2 as my secondary music system.
I really like Schiit products and think at their price points you are hard pressed to find a better product or value.
And also their customer service in my experience is fast and top notch. Granted I do live in the states which makes dealing with directly easier I am sure.
I'm curious, who told you you cant roll all 4 tubes? I did without problem, they are 6N1P and 6N6P. The manual gives you both sizes and it never mentions not to roll all 4
The problem is that there aren't any alternatives for the 6N6P.
@@Currawong sorry, I guess I still don't understand. Wouldn't different brands, years, etc sounds different much in the same way that the 6N1Ps do? I realize they were just power tubes, but wouldn't the same logic apply to the 6N6Ps?
It's simply that *there literally no alternative tube types*. No other brands. No other electrically compatible types. None! It's a one-off Russian tube.
Not sure if your aware, you cant get Schiit for love nor money atm ( in UK ). How about alternatives?
You'd probably be looking at a Chinese amp such as an xDuoo then.
@@Currawong Think i`ll wait
I've brought 3 schiit amps from Schiit Europe's website with no problems
@@davidjohnbowers Yeah but how long ago was that???? Even EU are out of stock
@@Mono-dj4lo About 12 months ago ...not surprised though ...price wise they punch way above ...Quality
Should I expect similar performance if I were to use it as solely a pre-amp?
Yes. As a general rule, if the pre-amp circuit is running through the same circuit as the headphone amp, the performance will be the same in my experience. Just note that both amps in this video are, or will be superseded by newer models.
I would want to see a Topping A90 against these Amps.
The molinjar 2 is a match made in heaven with the HD 800s ...and will drive anything ...
shame its discontinued :(
What cable upgrade on the sennheiser HD6xx?
If you owned both the Valhalla and the Asgard and wanted to drive them from a single DAC, is there a way to toggle between the amps without moving cables around?
I've used RCA double-adaptors to have one DAC feed two amps.
Shiit SYS is what you need.
Thanks for the video. If i used an impedance adapter for my OTL amp, would it theoretically fix the impedance mismatch problem? Are there any benefits to hybrids or transformer-coupled amps in that case?
So the Valhalla is the better pairing for the HD family?
If that's the only headphones you'll use, yes
@@kyle1538 I have the HD 6XX, with the Darkvoice, that has a lot of back ground noice, I guess the Valhalla will do a better job?
@@vicentevargas6755 I don't have a dark voice but perhaps the noise is from your source (DAC), hard to say
@@kyle1538 I have'nt considered that, thanks, I'll get into it.
I don't have anything other than the HD600s to compare, but those paired with the Valhalla 2 are magical.
How sound sundara in valhalla 2? I have nothing of dacs and amps, but I would like to test with headphones with high impedance 600 ohms and 300 ohms. ¿Asgard 3 and vallhalla 2 what is my best choise? ¿Asgard 3 is more chepear than the other, Asgard 3 sounds much worst than the valhalla 2? Greatings from Mexico.
Asgard is a solid state amp while Valhalla is a tube amp so expect a warmer and less detailed sound with Valhalla.
Hi there... I'm considering upgrading my current Audeze LCD-MX4 to the new Audeze CRBN electrostatic headphone. I'm currently using an ALO PanAm to drive my LCD-MX4, and it does just fine (except my tubes are burned out currently). I wonder if the ALO PanAm or one of these Schiit Audio amp would be able to drive an electrostatic headphone? I've never owned one or even listened to an electrostatic headphone before, but I'm pretty sure I would love it since I've loved all of the Audeze headphones that I have purchased over the years. The question now is that whether I could get an affordable amp to power it. Would one of these do OK? Thanks so much for any help.
www.h-ear.audio/faq
What about Valhalla 2 for my 6xx and pre out to Magni 3+ for tube-ish Sundaras?
Silly I reckon. Buy a Lyr 3.
Planars dont like OTLs. I tried to power my former Aeon Flows and they did not power them AT ALL with my Crack. They Power my MMX 300s decently. Not as good as my Violectric 200 though. The Crack is for whatever ZMF can I have (currently Aeolus, formerly everything but the Atticus).
Strange how Valhalla 2 cant run a Sundara properly, but a mere Magni 3+/Heresy can run it just fine. xD
It's not strange. The Valhalla 2 is an OTL tube amp. These amps are designed specifically for high-impedance headphones. More or less, it means you can get excellent performance for those headphones for less money, but the penalty is that it isn't optimum for low-impedance headphones.
@@Currawong Oh so it's not a hybrid tube amp? I thought all of Schiits tube amps were hybrid.
@@MyouKyuubi Valhalla 2 is the only OTL amp from Schitt.
You mentioned class a amps draw power 100% of the time. Is that true even if the unit is switched off?
Obviously not when switched off.
Nonenonchalantly explained a basic issue people in hifi-forums create incomprehensible wall of words on - what do tubes do, tube rolling, matched tubes.
oh, and i don't like either of these two schiits - not their best throws imo.
Would using a 100ohm impedance adapter with the Asgard 3 be ideal for driving high ohm headphones?
Even if such a thing existed, it would be necessary.
Lol what, no
They do exist. You can buy them off eBay and AliExpress. I have one that I use with my dt990 600ohm headphones. 100ohm output impedance is recommended for Beyerdynamics 600ohm headphones. They even make 2 headphone amps that have an output of 100ohms. There is also info on headfi about these adapters ...
www.head-fi.org/threads/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed.601669/
Interesting. That link is about adaptors for IEMs. I'm not sure that they would make a useful difference to amps like the Asgard 3 though that can likely already swing plenty of voltage at 600 Ohms. What amp do you use yours with and what results have you gotten from it?
I’ve used it with the schiit magni 3+.
To my ears the bass is tighter and it brings better clarity. Without the 100ohm impedance adapter the bass is loose and it seems like the magni 3+ just can’t drive them well. It would make for a interesting video comparing with and without the adapter. Impedance adapters are about $7-15 US dollars.
You mentioned that OTL amps, like the Valhalla 2, don't drive well headphones with a similar or lower impedance than the amp's output impedance. The rule of thumb is a 2.5:1 - 8:1 ratio (i.e. at least an amp output imp of 2.5X higher than the headphone imp). The Valhalla 2 has output Impedance of 14 ohms (high gain) and 3.5 ohms (low gain). The Sundara has 37Ω imp which is ~2.7X higher than Valhalla's output impedance (high gain) or ~10.6X higher than Valhalla's output impedance (low gain). It must be another reason, then, why Valhalla 2 does not drive them well. Any ideas? Best regards.
Whose rule? The 8:1 ratio was the suggestion of Tyll Hertsens. I've never heard of a 2.5:1 ratio, and neither are "rules". That being said, the reason a Valhalla 2 cannot power low impedance planar headphones well is very simple: Lack of current (power).
@@Currawong Thanks for responding. I didn't claim it's a rule but a rule of thumb. :-) No idea who came up with this but it is extensively quoted on audiophile forums. If it is completely arbitrary or even incorrect why do manufacturers lower the output impedance (especially in low gain) in order to allow low impedance headphones to be used? I just assumed there is a correlation they way this rule of thumb suggests. I guess the latter is required but it is not sufficient as in the case of Valhalla there is not enough power to drive them. Would be it accurate to assume that if Valhalla was more powerful, say 300mW @ low impedances, it would drive these headphones without quality degradation, or that is impossible without 'producing' an amp high imp output? Many thanks, again.
@@WorldView22 There's a lot of stuff "extensively quoted" on audiophile forums. A low output impedance is primarily for IEMs, which sometimes can have driver set-ups that dip below 8 Ohms. Above above 5 Ohms, IEMs like the Campfire Andromedas, which have a wide impedance vs. frequency difference, start to lose bass. Headphone drive is not just about the numbers, however. I have an amp here which maxes at 3W of output, which should be WAY more than enough to drive them to hearing-destroying levels, yet with planar headphones it makes the music sound "flat", and dynamic passages in some music sound like distortion. Why? Because the power supply is tiny, and can't supply enough for the circuit to drive the headphones consistently.
Which one? Pshhh. Easy. Both. You buy both.
First !
Is the Valhalla planar friendly to high impedance headphones like the LCD 3s
Well Valhalla 2 plays better the higher impedance your headphones have. It's weakness is in driving low impedance low sensitivity headphones.