You often mention the troubles of putting a jet against a warbird. This fight has me thinking what if you had the brothers fight? P-47 Thunderbolt vs. A-10 Thunderbolt II
The problem with the Jets vs Warbirds is the gap between speed cuz the actual jets like F-16, F-15 etc. have higher lower airspeeds than that of the warbirds maximum speeds, while the harrier despite having a higher top speed cannot fully out run the A-10, its a similar situation with the A-10 Vs the Warbirds
someone did supply the link for the battle with Spits & Mustangs. I would think the P-47s would be less maneuverable and be more of a fight.@@TimInertiatic
Don't let this go to his head, but, I could watch Simba fly in dogfights all day... My god he's good. He flies so, fluidly.. Graceful? I dunno, words..
Yep. I flew simulated combat in an Extra 300 with the guys at Fighter Combat International. My pilot was a retired A-10 and F-16 driver. If the A-10 could get into a turn fight, it could beat just about any aircraft out there. He actually got a kill against a Fulcrum in a big exercise they did over in Europe. :)
Perhaps if you used the Harrier's ability to adjust the VTOL nozzles in forward flight more, the A-10 would face a tougher fight. This actually shows very well when Simba flies the Harrier.
I commented about this, but this is one hundred percent true. My dad served on amphibious assault ships In the united states marine corps, Which had harriers on board. He has told me multiple times he has witnessed them Dump the nozzles in a vertical climb, And pulling a impromptu cobra maneuver and the chase Aircraft was always unable to discelerate and would fly right past them, Thus putting the Chase Aircraft In the kill zone.
thanks I enjoy the dog fight and always want to get better. dog fights in jets like this really make it interesting and test your ability to adapt and think on the fly. cheers thanks for watching.
My dad served on amphibious assault ships in the US Marine Corps as a CH-46 Mechanic. (HMM-166). He stated he physically witnessed The harriers using their VTOL nozzles Quite aggressively in dog fight practice. He has stated multiple times that they Would pull vertical and dump the nozzles in full VTOL, And he would watch the chase aircraft fly right by.
The AV8-B ace up it's sleeve is VIFF....without using that it's at a real disadvantage as shown in these simulations. The nozzles moved a few times in fights but didn't seem to be used to full advantage. I bet an experienced Harrier pilot would make a better showing of the aircraft if the techniques were allowed to be used.
@@pogo1140 Actually, it has been used in combat by the Brits. And was used in training multiple times to pull off surprise kills against superior aircraft.
@@MrEsphoenix I've not read any actual after action reports of it being used in the Falkands, and seriously against missile armed Mirages, you really don't want to
It seems to me the main advantage of the Harrier is its thrust to weight ratio. The A10 loves slow, high turn rates at low level. Should have used altitude to outperform the A10.
Over 20 years ago, there was a game called Janes USAF. Almost all online games were dog fights. My plane was always the A-10 because of how it handled at low speed. The gun didn't hurt either.
Cap "Like riding a bike, viewers," The last time I looked, my bike didn't have a humongous 30 mm rotary cannon on it . . . Although I will admit there have been moments it would've been handy.
Yeah, that was because the F-22's got cocky. The F-22 pilot went after a flight of transports for a easy kill and did not see the A-10's that were trailing the transports..
@@flashgordon6670 Wrong. Why do you say the greyhound only has 3 legs? If it's so pitiful and useless why do you demand a rematch? The Hawgs clearly superior. Admit and embrace it. 😄✌
The A10 uses a high bypass turbofan engine. The exhaust gas gets blended with a huge volume of near-ambient temperature airflow before it even leaves the engine shroud.
That was one of the most nail-biting fights I've ever seen you guys do, and I've seen you do a lot. Was a small boy who followed the Harrier jump jet through the 82 Falklands Campaign. Always admired the jet.
why would you be out of energy and still carrying 4 sidewinders? 15:40 like wtf. get rid of them. still wins, but outcome doesn't say whether the choice is right.
One thing about the IR missiles is that although the Harrier engines are hotter, they are hidden under the wings, so can hide them much easier; this was discussed on voyage out to the Falklands, stay low, so they cant see your engines.
Huge problem with the Harrier is that restriction it has on the gun being able to be fired depending on where the nozzles are angled. That means for a LARGE portion of it's "dog fighting" abilities are limited on when it can get a shot off. ALSO, let's not ignore that the A-10's ability to turn is FAR more agile than you would think that a "ground pounder" plane could pull off. In fact, it has one of the BEST turn ability at lower speeds than MOST planes. Not to mention that it is EXTREMELY rugged. Also, A-10's gun in a dogfight is like using a sledgehammer against an ant. Once the A-10 can put the "shots on target" it is pretty much going to completely destroy any aircraft made.
I tried to get into DCS via the A-10c Warthog module way back in 2013. I got a HOTAS but could never get suited to it. For whatever reason I feel the need to try again and recently found your channel. Some good fun here, your beginner basics stuff is helpful and may motivate me to challenge the 140 odd gig install again.
I remember reading about the air force doing simulations and I think a "for fun" training exercise of an a-10 vs f-16 and a lot of the time the a-10 could "turn quicker" than the f-16. It was something like even though the a-10 is much slower, the wing design made it very efficient. If I'm understanding what I read, the a-10 can turn/change angle (degrees) just slightly faster than the f-16 or something like that. The way I thought of it was the f-16 does a big circle (360 degree turn) very fast, and the a-10 does a very small circle much slower but can make the 360 rotation just slightly faster.
These close quarters dogfights with jets are a lot of fun. The A-10 is definitely pretty dominate in the turn fights, it just gets that nose around and fires a sidewinder at opponents. That's definitely who wins these fights, is who can get that nose turned around, and get their sidewinders launched at them. If the WEZ is jammed, then guns turn into the next option.
Ultimately, the A-10 is more or less built for low altitude slower flying and the Harrier was pretty much outclassed. Still, I think you guys showed just why the Harrier was/is such a plucky jet. It's got a few tricks up it's sleeve and pretty much goes "pffft" at any sort of stats .
Wow, that was really eye-opening and exciting. The Hawg's stability and maneuver ability was amazing. How do you force an overshoot on a plane that says, "OK, I'll just go slower!" I was glad to see VIFF employed! But I think I saw the counter-VIFF! In the fast jets, everyone instinctively climbs over the nose. But, with the A-10, in the scissors, as soon as you see the nose come up, roll inverted and go out of plane, diving just UNDER the nose. The VIFFing pilot, already slow due the scissors, is going to have hands full trying to keep from departing.
Honestly, the A-10 is NEVER thought of as a "fighter", and yet as a "fighter" is is actually "okay". Not horrible, not great, but "ok". Under the right conditions (slower speeds) is is far better than you would think.
GAU-8 Burst = Harrier debris field 🤣 Simba's eventual Harrier victory over Firedad was all about pilot skill, not platform capabilities. "You can't blame me, I'm too pretty!" - Cap explaining his Blue on Blue shoot down 😅😅😅
Predicted this- the VIffing lets the Harrier immediately point it's nose- and if it can use that like a impromptu cobra, it can sorta one-circle-ish rain down missiles, but it's got to constantly be switching modes, and pointing it's nose. Gotta use your plane's special abilities!
it's really hard to do a cobra in the harrier as its modeled. the flight model is really great but there are limitations base on how flight sims are modded. I don't claim to be a good or great harrier pilot but I feel I pushed the flight model pretty far and I hope it was enjoyable. cheers thanks for watching
@@simba1113 your piloting is impressive as always, and your creativity in using unique aspects of what each jet brings to the table is awesome! You def pushed the model, but that was the way to go! I love watching you constantly push the technical bounds of rate of climb, acceleration, AOA, turn rate, etc in these videos, and can't get enough- you're a force to be reckoned with in any plane Simba ( and ya, harriers can't do cobras prope RR, I meant that ability to get into a state where you can point your nose extremely fast, and swing it around- which isn't too diff from flankers using Cobras or FCS's disabled to pull 120 degrees AOA to take shots at foes constantly
@@simba1113 great flying- do you think you could have used the vertical? Was thinking of a way to use the Harriers power to weight advantage? Can you keep away from his nose in a series of climbing turns until the A10 loses energy and has to drop his nose?
the game is free and comes with a FC3 Su-25 and a T-51 (aerobatic p-51) ED and third party module makers make their money through the models and maps. there are 42 aircraft currently modeled in game that you pay for. Cap my self and a few of the guys have all of the module (paid for) so that we can provide you with the most content we can. but it takes years to develop and model these aircraft in game. they really model a lot of systems on each aircraft independently. you can buy one module aircraft and spend a year or two really learning all of the systems and emergency procedures. every jet you can buy is like a game in its self. and its has a sand box mission maker so you can place ground assets and and build missions all for free, cheers I hope that helps.
Against a low thrust to weight fighter with missiles, that's just begging for trouble. It seems intuitive until you get a missile in the butt. I think the lesson is to engage the Hawg at range, rather than a knife fight with someone who likes to fight in phone booths.
1 v 1.... Harrier SHOULD win [almost] every time. Just set up the A10 for one circle, go jets down and pull inside the circle. The A10 now has 2 options 1: Continue to pull the circle and get picked off by the Harriers gun. 2: Open up the circle to make it possible to get nose on, which involves flying away from the harrier, which means AIM9 up the bum. Even if you can't get him into a circle, if he's on your arse, jets down and just go so slow the A10 has no option other than to fly past you.... and AIM9! As I said though, 1 v 1 ONLY, the second theres another player up there you're dead meat even thinking about pulling that crap.
Except it didn't work out like that. If a high TW fighter wants to climb into the pig pen, don't be shocked if the low TW Hawg eats you for lunch. To do what you laid out implies you can even get on it's tail. How long you gonna VIFF before he tightens the turn and disappears off your wind screen, to find out you bled all your energy off and are out of airspeed, altitude and ideas. Also diving on a Hawg in your fast jet to get a gun kill, when the Hawg happily flies 10 ft above the ground is not conducive to a reattack.
When I saw the title of the video I automatically assumed that it would have been the Harrier ALL DAY long just playing with the Hawg like a cat plays with a mouse and can choose the time of death at his leisure. I stand corrected, and a bit stunned.
I couldn't do it, but no one took the fight into the vertical.....harrier has huge thrust to weight advantage going near vertical I'm not sure the A10 would be able to keep the nose high? Its thrust / weight is like 0.36....sharkey wards harrier book has some good tactics for all combat- know in what speed / height range the enemy plane is good and stay away from it!! I think just trying to turn with the A10 at low speed is asking to lose ( but like I say I certainly couldn't do better😂)
Wing loading is the weight of the aircraft in relation to the total area of the wings. The wings are supporting the weight of the aircraft. So a low wing loading (relatively more wing area per pound - or kilo - of aircraft) means the aircraft will "slide" less as it maneuvers. Think of a loaded truck with small tires compared to one with great big tires - which one is going to be able to take a turn faster? That's a quick and dirty explanation, it gets a lot more complicated, but it should get you into the ball park
@@xet1sw156 and it doesn't apply to the Harrier very well. The Harriers nominal wing loading is high....but vectoring reduces the wing loading (right down to zero when hovering).
The 30mm gun is worse for dogfighting than the 20mm in pretty much every way. It's high ratio of AP ammo is near useless in damaging aircraft and it's huge weight is a burden. Either way guns are essentially pointless in modern air combat.
The A-10's Rock And Roll; Hopefully The #USA Will Keep The Airframe And Update The Electronics ; Engines And Weaponry! Their Titanium "Bath Tub" And Other Armour Are Superior To ALL Modern Aircraft....Along With Their 30MM Cannon.... Keep Them "Active"...
Shouldn’t the Harrier pilots have tried to make more use of the main advantage they have in thrust to weight ratio? No point in trying to out-turn the A10; out-climb it.
Not in a missile fight against an agile opponent. Cap tried to set up an energy fight and ate one in the butt. In a guns fight...maybe. But the Harrier wasn't designed to fight a Piper Cub with really big teeth.
harrier and a-10 thrust is more like pick-up truck horse power. you can have a lot but its low end thrust not high speed fast acceleration thrust. so while the harrier had a better drag profile get get higher top end speeds than the a-10. it just can't accelerate quick enough. cheers I hope that helped make sense of the fights.
@@simba1113 Sorry but that is incorrect. There is no such thing as pickup truck horse power or low end thrust vs high end thrust (though there is a change in thrust with speed and altitude). The Harrier has a lot of thrust and relatively low weight and is one of the fastest accelerating aircraft in DCS from 0 to about 200. However it has high drag so acceleration falls away quickly with speed and so cannot go supersonic. The A-10 has less thrust, lower thrust to weight and higher drag so is slower and cannot accelerate as quickly.....in a straight line. However the A-10 has a much lower nominal wing loading which means that when turning it's drag doesn't increase as much as an aicraft with a high wing loading like the Harrier - therefore when pulling hard the thrust to drag ratio for the A-10 drastically improves in relation to the Harrier. Thrust to drag is the primary factor in limiting top speed so the Harriers top speed of over 500 kts might drop to say 150kts when pulling hard. The A-10s top speed of 350 ish kts might drop to say 160kts or whatever. However there are 5 methods you could have used to reduce the wing loading/increase performance on the Harrier - three of which you definitely weren't doing and the other you almost certainly we're not doing and one unknown. The Harrier has a higher maximum sustained turn rate, a higher peak turn rate, a smaller turn radius higher thrust to weight, higher thrust to drag and faster roll rate than the A-10 so SHOULD win this fight if configured and flown correctly. The Harrier is light and is thus adversely affected by weight and has a relatively large fuel tank so with full fuel loads the performance drops significantly so there are certain configurations in which the Harrier could not outrate the A-10 but should almost always be able to beat it in a 1 circle fight.
shame the americans didn't have access to the phimat flare pods. Otherwise the harrier would have had basically every advantage (if you include viffing)
Do the thing the harrier does. At the merge, slam the nozzles forward. Pull the nose up, rotate clock wise to nose down while pulling nose up . Now you’re level point 180 from where you were. Hold the hover and rotate to the target ( sit in the middle of the circle, he can’t beat you around the circle). Missiles… boom
@@simba1113 ooooof. Bummer. Can you slam the nozzles back, fire, slam them down, rotated, lock, slam, fire? Might need an extra hand, and some altitude.
The A-10 is a beast. The Air Force was planning a replacement for it but the new designs were basically just another A-10. When you've got something that works stick with it. Unrelated but it just came to mind that an interesting scenario would be imagine Linebacker II in 1972 over Hanoi but instead of it being done by the USAF with the B-52 imagine if it had been done by the Soviets with either Tu-95s or Tu-16s. How would they have performed?
This was such a awesome video, specially for the A-10 my 2nd favorite plane to the F-15. I keep trying to tell some of the right people about some of the things I've seen you guys do with the A-10 and that it could come into some good use in Ukraine with F-16's and Russian Anti-Air Systems mainly being depleted day by day and the Ukrainian Anti-Air Systems getting closer to the front lines the A-10 escorted by the F-16 could do a lot of damage in Ukraine. But I seem to be too low on the Totem pole to be heard which I guess I can understand seeing as I just volunteered to go over 4 months ago. And I have been jumping through hoops till yesterday when I was approved to go and start Training in Germany then Poland for the next 4-6 months. But great video guys!
the AV8B is faster, use that and climb rate to stay away from the better turning A-10. Boom and zoom it 10 mabe 20 times till its dead or lands on just 1 wing. ;-)
You often mention the troubles of putting a jet against a warbird. This fight has me thinking what if you had the brothers fight? P-47 Thunderbolt vs. A-10 Thunderbolt II
I think I saw it done, and the war birds won.
Classic case of asymmetric warfare: ua-cam.com/video/Jz9r2kDQYUQ/v-deo.html
They did Spitfires Vs A10's. A10 could only escape by extending in a shallow dive, otherwise the Spits got them
The problem with the Jets vs Warbirds is the gap between speed cuz the actual jets like F-16, F-15 etc. have higher lower airspeeds than that of the warbirds maximum speeds, while the harrier despite having a higher top speed cannot fully out run the A-10, its a similar situation with the A-10 Vs the Warbirds
someone did supply the link for the battle with Spits & Mustangs. I would think the P-47s would be less maneuverable and be more of a fight.@@TimInertiatic
Don't let this go to his head, but, I could watch Simba fly in dogfights all day... My god he's good. He flies so, fluidly.. Graceful? I dunno, words..
Saying the word ‘Kortana’ should keep Simba humble. 😂
Dude had Simba in his sights multiple times...and never too the shot. You can also see him letting off in a turn to give Simba the fist advantage.
If he read that his desk would suddenly start wobbling 🤔🤣
@@phillipbradford6976 aim 9s refused to stay locked long enough to come off the rail.
Buraq
Great 1v1.. Arise Sir Simba Wimba of Harrierland
thank you I tried to give it a good show in the harrier.
I remember reading an F-15 pilot once said you never want to get into a close in dogfight with an A-10.
There‘s two rules to fighting an a-10:
1) use vertical
2) never go 1 circle
It‘s not that hard
I've heard a few F-14 pilots (including top gun graduates) say the same thing. "Never turn with an A-10. Ever!"
yeah the one problem the harrier has is that it doesn't accelerate very well so creating enough separation I the hard part@@lucky_luke4785
@@lucky_luke4785 Yup very true..dont go one circle (unless your in a harrier or a warbird)
Yep. I flew simulated combat in an Extra 300 with the guys at Fighter Combat International. My pilot was a retired A-10 and F-16 driver. If the A-10 could get into a turn fight, it could beat just about any aircraft out there. He actually got a kill against a Fulcrum in a big exercise they did over in Europe. :)
Perhaps if you used the Harrier's ability to adjust the VTOL nozzles in forward flight more, the A-10 would face a tougher fight.
This actually shows very well when Simba flies the Harrier.
Was thinking this, with VTOL it should be able to out turn the a10 easily.
@@92HazelMocha Counter to that would be to go vertical and kill the AV-8 while it tries to recover it's airspeed.
SHARs in the Falklands didn't VIFF at all as far as I'm aware and got 20 kills with no air to air losses
I commented about this, but this is one hundred percent true.
My dad served on amphibious assault ships In the united states marine corps, Which had harriers on board. He has told me multiple times he has witnessed them Dump the nozzles in a vertical climb, And pulling a impromptu cobra maneuver and the chase Aircraft was always unable to discelerate and would fly right past them, Thus putting the Chase Aircraft In the kill zone.
@@pogo1140 counter to A10 is going vertical, fat pig will stall before pointing nose at anything
Nice work Simba
thanks
15:36 Never ever underestimate Simba !!! This guy is a Maverick on his own. Congratulations !
thanks I enjoy the dog fight and always want to get better. dog fights in jets like this really make it interesting and test your ability to adapt and think on the fly. cheers thanks for watching.
@@simba1113 I agree... This is why I love that. Even if i'm training on Air to Ground attacks.
@@simba1113go head to head with gs simba 🎉😅
Fiuredad 16:37 Understatement of the year. "I seem to be missing some control surfaces." LOL
My dad served on amphibious assault ships in the US Marine Corps as a CH-46 Mechanic. (HMM-166). He stated he physically witnessed The harriers using their VTOL nozzles Quite aggressively in dog fight practice.
He has stated multiple times that they Would pull vertical and dump the nozzles in full VTOL, And he would watch the chase aircraft fly right by.
Great example of making the most of what the aircraft has to offer.
The AV8-B ace up it's sleeve is VIFF....without using that it's at a real disadvantage as shown in these simulations. The nozzles moved a few times in fights but didn't seem to be used to full advantage. I bet an experienced Harrier pilot would make a better showing of the aircraft if the techniques were allowed to be used.
They did not use that in combat because it causes the plane to lose all it's speed
@@pogo1140 Actually, it has been used in combat by the Brits. And was used in training multiple times to pull off surprise kills against superior aircraft.
@@flashgordon6670 You mean be a pinata waiting to be hit?
@@MrEsphoenix I've not read any actual after action reports of it being used in the Falkands, and seriously against missile armed Mirages, you really don't want to
It seems to me the main advantage of the Harrier is its thrust to weight ratio. The A10 loves slow, high turn rates at low level. Should have used altitude to outperform the A10.
Great video! Thanks to Cap and the boys! Simba, KILLIN in the much less apt Harrier. 👊Props
thanks. The boys and id do our best to entertain. cheers thanks for watching
Over 20 years ago, there was a game called Janes USAF. Almost all online games were dog fights. My plane was always the A-10 because of how it handled at low speed. The gun didn't hurt either.
Strange, I would assume a gun that big would hurt quite a lot!
Ha, thank you for the chuckle. @@foxglow6798
Cap "Like riding a bike, viewers,"
The last time I looked, my bike didn't have a humongous 30 mm rotary cannon on it . . .
Although I will admit there have been moments it would've been handy.
Interesting fight. Job well done boys!
Great video guys! Goes to show how good that A-10 can really be when put up against the right jets. Great Idea Cap!
And in a favourable scenario
A10s won training dogfights against F15s and other fighters during the 80s.
I saw a picture of an A-10 with a F-22 kill mark on it and people was really salty about it. Can you do a dogfight with the A-10 vs F-22?.
Isn’t there also Rafales and typhoons with “ kills” on the f22? people really believe America is invincible and get salty proven otherwise
Yeah, that was because the F-22's got cocky. The F-22 pilot went after a flight of transports for a easy kill and did not see the A-10's that were trailing the transports..
@@flashgordon6670 "Harriers can beat anything, if the pilots master its ability for aerobatics." Nope. Hawgs clean its clock.
@@pogo1140is there a video or picture you can drop
@@flashgordon6670 Wrong. Why do you say the greyhound only has 3 legs? If it's so pitiful and useless why do you demand a rematch? The Hawgs clearly superior. Admit and embrace it. 😄✌
Interesting that in the 1 V 1 the A-10 got it's kills either with the gun or a maneuver kill, not a Sidewinder
yeah despite the heat of the pegaus harrier engine, as it exhausts out of 4 vents the overall heat to lock on seems to be quite low
The A10 uses a high bypass turbofan engine. The exhaust gas gets blended with a huge volume of near-ambient temperature airflow before it even leaves the engine shroud.
its*. “it’s” means “it is”, have a nice day
Simba your new call sign is Symbian. The F machine
lol ok, thanks I guess hahaha. cheers thanks for watching.
Time to give Sharkey Ward a call for a few pointers ?
That was one of the most nail-biting fights I've ever seen you guys do, and I've seen you do a lot. Was a small boy who followed the Harrier jump jet through the 82 Falklands Campaign. Always admired the jet.
You know Cap, you tell them to merge, and they comply... You just never expected them to try mating an A10 and a Harrier in a mid air collision! : D
why would you be out of energy and still carrying 4 sidewinders? 15:40 like wtf. get rid of them. still wins, but outcome doesn't say whether the choice is right.
The very firtst thing I would have done was lose 2 of the sidewinders.
GAU-8: I fart in your general direction!
Simba and fire were just having a knife fight in a dark closet
I mean I look prettier in dark closets thanks for watching.
15:45 simba used everything and firedad didn't use the guns?
One thing about the IR missiles is that although the Harrier engines are hotter, they are hidden under the wings, so can hide them much easier; this was discussed on voyage out to the Falklands, stay low, so they cant see your engines.
haha, 6:50 collision dont mean squat to the A10
Huge problem with the Harrier is that restriction it has on the gun being able to be fired depending on where the nozzles are angled. That means for a LARGE portion of it's "dog fighting" abilities are limited on when it can get a shot off.
ALSO, let's not ignore that the A-10's ability to turn is FAR more agile than you would think that a "ground pounder" plane could pull off. In fact, it has one of the BEST turn ability at lower speeds than MOST planes. Not to mention that it is EXTREMELY rugged.
Also, A-10's gun in a dogfight is like using a sledgehammer against an ant. Once the A-10 can put the "shots on target" it is pretty much going to completely destroy any aircraft made.
15:47 Simba... beer's in the fridge 😉
sweet I hope its natty light hahaha. j/k
I tried to get into DCS via the A-10c Warthog module way back in 2013. I got a HOTAS but could never get suited to it. For whatever reason I feel the need to try again and recently found your channel.
Some good fun here, your beginner basics stuff is helpful and may motivate me to challenge the 140 odd gig install again.
Good job, yall. That was some great flying.
Maybe 1 plane vs. all? Example A-10 vs everything 1v1? Gauntlet style?
I remember reading about the air force doing simulations and I think a "for fun" training exercise of an a-10 vs f-16 and a lot of the time the a-10 could "turn quicker" than the f-16. It was something like even though the a-10 is much slower, the wing design made it very efficient. If I'm understanding what I read, the a-10 can turn/change angle (degrees) just slightly faster than the f-16 or something like that. The way I thought of it was the f-16 does a big circle (360 degree turn) very fast, and the a-10 does a very small circle much slower but can make the 360 rotation just slightly faster.
Great matchup. The attackers in dogfights is fun. Frogfoot, Warthog, Harrier, all fun.
Taking my 2 favorite aircraft and pitting them against each other...
This is such a great idea!
Well done, chaps. Especially well done, Simba. Somewhat disappointed that the Élysée Palace was not gratuitously carpet-bombed.
thanks. all the guys did very well. I just got lucky and got one for the harrier.
that was epic! /applauds Simba
thanks all the guys did great
These close quarters dogfights with jets are a lot of fun. The A-10 is definitely pretty dominate in the turn fights, it just gets that nose around and fires a sidewinder at opponents. That's definitely who wins these fights, is who can get that nose turned around, and get their sidewinders launched at them. If the WEZ is jammed, then guns turn into the next option.
Ultimately, the A-10 is more or less built for low altitude slower flying and the Harrier was pretty much outclassed. Still, I think you guys showed just why the Harrier was/is such a plucky jet. It's got a few tricks up it's sleeve and pretty much goes "pffft" at any sort of stats .
Bet you're a ton of fun at parties, Iceman
Used to be a mirage parked inside a courtyard just south of Saint Cloud on Google maps.
Wow, that was really eye-opening and exciting. The Hawg's stability and maneuver ability was amazing. How do you force an overshoot on a plane that says, "OK, I'll just go slower!"
I was glad to see VIFF employed! But I think I saw the counter-VIFF! In the fast jets, everyone instinctively climbs over the nose. But, with the A-10, in the scissors, as soon as you see the nose come up, roll inverted and go out of plane, diving just UNDER the nose. The VIFFing pilot, already slow due the scissors, is going to have hands full trying to keep from departing.
Honestly, the A-10 is NEVER thought of as a "fighter", and yet as a "fighter" is is actually "okay". Not horrible, not great, but "ok". Under the right conditions (slower speeds) is is far better than you would think.
GAU-8 Burst = Harrier debris field 🤣
Simba's eventual Harrier victory over Firedad was all about pilot skill, not platform capabilities.
"You can't blame me, I'm too pretty!" - Cap explaining his Blue on Blue shoot down 😅😅😅
Predicted this- the VIffing lets the Harrier immediately point it's nose- and if it can use that like a impromptu cobra, it can sorta one-circle-ish rain down missiles, but it's got to constantly be switching modes, and pointing it's nose. Gotta use your plane's special abilities!
it's really hard to do a cobra in the harrier as its modeled. the flight model is really great but there are limitations base on how flight sims are modded. I don't claim to be a good or great harrier pilot but I feel I pushed the flight model pretty far and I hope it was enjoyable. cheers thanks for watching
@@simba1113 your piloting is impressive as always, and your creativity in using unique aspects of what each jet brings to the table is awesome! You def pushed the model, but that was the way to go!
I love watching you constantly push the technical bounds of rate of climb, acceleration, AOA, turn rate, etc in these videos, and can't get enough- you're a force to be reckoned with in any plane Simba
( and ya, harriers can't do cobras prope RR, I meant that ability to get into a state where you can point your nose extremely fast, and swing it around- which isn't too diff from flankers using Cobras or FCS's disabled to pull 120 degrees AOA to take shots at foes constantly
@@simba1113 great flying- do you think you could have used the vertical? Was thinking of a way to use the Harriers power to weight advantage? Can you keep away from his nose in a series of climbing turns until the A10 loses energy and has to drop his nose?
Simba for the Wimba!
Vimy the Scouty scout. lol thanks for watching
I was just thinking earlier today how much I enjoyed your dogfight videos. Glad to see another one!
Is the British harrier not available? That's fitted with 2 of the 30mm ADEN cannons
Love the content ! been watching daily for the last few months.
How do you unlock the full DCS game? I know it’s free but how much, if anything, would I have to pay in order to have access to all of the content?
the game is free and comes with a FC3 Su-25 and a T-51 (aerobatic p-51) ED and third party module makers make their money through the models and maps. there are 42 aircraft currently modeled in game that you pay for. Cap my self and a few of the guys have all of the module (paid for) so that we can provide you with the most content we can. but it takes years to develop and model these aircraft in game. they really model a lot of systems on each aircraft independently. you can buy one module aircraft and spend a year or two really learning all of the systems and emergency procedures. every jet you can buy is like a game in its self. and its has a sand box mission maker so you can place ground assets and and build missions all for free, cheers I hope that helps.
I think the Hog's magic is it's super cool rabid airliner engine sound. What can stand against it?
I'm not sure that, "Umm...a thing," would be a good answer when your commanding officer asks what happened to your wingman.
USE THA NOZZLEZ
This is the inferior American harrier,would have been better with the vastly superior Frs.1 or gr.5
Must use verticle in harrier. Sub sonic boom and zoom is all that works.
cap tried it. a slick A-10 can still go vertical. and with missiles involved there is just not enough time to get out of missile range.
I was pondering this exact duel while playing Ace Combat thebotter day
I love the large scale battles more.
I'm still waiting for B1 with LRASM Vs. Bismark and F-15C squadron Vs. J-20 squadron.
I didn't know A-10 flew higher than 100 feet.
SIMBAS BADAAASSS 13:10
thanks, and thanks for watching.
The first fight just showed how lower wing loading can be awesome.
This seemed like a spitfire dancing around a FW 190 at low speeds
when in the Harrier I think you should go to the Vertical, go above the A10 and BAM :)
Against a low thrust to weight fighter with missiles, that's just begging for trouble. It seems intuitive until you get a missile in the butt. I think the lesson is to engage the Hawg at range, rather than a knife fight with someone who likes to fight in phone booths.
1 v 1.... Harrier SHOULD win [almost] every time.
Just set up the A10 for one circle, go jets down and pull inside the circle.
The A10 now has 2 options
1: Continue to pull the circle and get picked off by the Harriers gun.
2: Open up the circle to make it possible to get nose on, which involves flying away from the harrier, which means AIM9 up the bum.
Even if you can't get him into a circle, if he's on your arse, jets down and just go so slow the A10 has no option other than to fly past you.... and AIM9!
As I said though, 1 v 1 ONLY, the second theres another player up there you're dead meat even thinking about pulling that crap.
Except it didn't work out like that. If a high TW fighter wants to climb into the pig pen, don't be shocked if the low TW Hawg eats you for lunch. To do what you laid out implies you can even get on it's tail. How long you gonna VIFF before he tightens the turn and disappears off your wind screen, to find out you bled all your energy off and are out of airspeed, altitude and ideas. Also diving on a Hawg in your fast jet to get a gun kill, when the Hawg happily flies 10 ft above the ground is not conducive to a reattack.
Does the Av8B allow for pfifging like the frs version? That greatly enhanced the manuverabikity during the Falklands
SIMBA! The Peoples' Champion! If anyone can, Simba can!
thank you my goal is always to try and please you valued viewers.
BZ to Simba!! Just proves that he is a great DCS Pilot and GR are outstanding!! Love you guys!!
Have you figured out how to do the stall manuver that one harrier pilot stumbled into?
Man, how good a pilot is Simba?
I give it my best. the team is very good in their own right and push all of us to get better. thanks for watching.
If any has seen an A10 land, its super astounding!! Near hover land and relaunch!!not reloaded, but even that's impressive!
Simba is a bad ass
thanks I do squats in the gym. I believe in a firm tone bottom. hahah thanks for watching.
The peoples champ Viffing the $hit outa The Harrier for the win!👍👍
thank you I gave it all she's got to try and get one for the harrier.
@@simba1113 np!😁✌ Lol in this case all she's got was just enough ;)
Simba wimba has got some skills 😊👍
it give it my best
@@simba1113
What I like about you Simba is you never give up 😁
This video's biggest problem with the Harrier was its pilots
This is so beautiful!!
6:50 'Tis but a scratch!
is there anyway to download grim reapers liveries?
I think there is a room in the GR discord where the liveries are.
When I saw the title of the video I automatically assumed that it would have been the Harrier ALL DAY long just playing with the Hawg like a cat plays with a mouse and can choose the time of death at his leisure. I stand corrected, and a bit stunned.
I couldn't do it, but no one took the fight into the vertical.....harrier has huge thrust to weight advantage going near vertical I'm not sure the A10 would be able to keep the nose high? Its thrust / weight is like 0.36....sharkey wards harrier book has some good tactics for all combat- know in what speed / height range the enemy plane is good and stay away from it!! I think just trying to turn with the A10 at low speed is asking to lose ( but like I say I certainly couldn't do better😂)
So what is wing loading and how did the A-10 gain a drastic advantage in this battle over the Harriers by having lower wing loading?
Wing loading is the weight of the aircraft in relation to the total area of the wings. The wings are supporting the weight of the aircraft. So a low wing loading (relatively more wing area per pound - or kilo - of aircraft) means the aircraft will "slide" less as it maneuvers. Think of a loaded truck with small tires compared to one with great big tires - which one is going to be able to take a turn faster? That's a quick and dirty explanation, it gets a lot more complicated, but it should get you into the ball park
Great description!
@@xet1sw156 and it doesn't apply to the Harrier very well. The Harriers nominal wing loading is high....but vectoring reduces the wing loading (right down to zero when hovering).
Just a thought - a repeat match up with A-10 vs SU-25?
Cool stuff!
Would you recommend the Harrier if you would replace the A-10 with something else on a mission, or is the A-10 stronger in any comparison?
Combine both planes
The Jump jet of the harrier
The 30mm Gatling GUn of the A-10
The 30mm gun is worse for dogfighting than the 20mm in pretty much every way. It's high ratio of AP ammo is near useless in damaging aircraft and it's huge weight is a burden. Either way guns are essentially pointless in modern air combat.
Reason #14526 the A-10 is best plane, hardly even flinched when the harrier smacked it
yup
The A-10's Rock And Roll; Hopefully The #USA Will Keep The Airframe And Update The Electronics ; Engines And Weaponry! Their Titanium "Bath Tub" And Other Armour Are Superior To ALL Modern Aircraft....Along With Their 30MM Cannon.... Keep Them "Active"...
Because he turned the same way
Shouldn’t the Harrier pilots have tried to make more use of the main advantage they have in thrust to weight ratio? No point in trying to out-turn the A10; out-climb it.
Not in a missile fight against an agile opponent. Cap tried to set up an energy fight and ate one in the butt. In a guns fight...maybe. But the Harrier wasn't designed to fight a Piper Cub with really big teeth.
harrier and a-10 thrust is more like pick-up truck horse power. you can have a lot but its low end thrust not high speed fast acceleration thrust. so while the harrier had a better drag profile get get higher top end speeds than the a-10. it just can't accelerate quick enough. cheers I hope that helped make sense of the fights.
@@simba1113 Sorry but that is incorrect. There is no such thing as pickup truck horse power or low end thrust vs high end thrust (though there is a change in thrust with speed and altitude). The Harrier has a lot of thrust and relatively low weight and is one of the fastest accelerating aircraft in DCS from 0 to about 200. However it has high drag so acceleration falls away quickly with speed and so cannot go supersonic. The A-10 has less thrust, lower thrust to weight and higher drag so is slower and cannot accelerate as quickly.....in a straight line. However the A-10 has a much lower nominal wing loading which means that when turning it's drag doesn't increase as much as an aicraft with a high wing loading like the Harrier - therefore when pulling hard the thrust to drag ratio for the A-10 drastically improves in relation to the Harrier. Thrust to drag is the primary factor in limiting top speed so the Harriers top speed of over 500 kts might drop to say 150kts when pulling hard. The A-10s top speed of 350 ish kts might drop to say 160kts or whatever. However there are 5 methods you could have used to reduce the wing loading/increase performance on the Harrier - three of which you definitely weren't doing and the other you almost certainly we're not doing and one unknown. The Harrier has a higher maximum sustained turn rate, a higher peak turn rate, a smaller turn radius higher thrust to weight, higher thrust to drag and faster roll rate than the A-10 so SHOULD win this fight if configured and flown correctly. The Harrier is light and is thus adversely affected by weight and has a relatively large fuel tank so with full fuel loads the performance drops significantly so there are certain configurations in which the Harrier could not outrate the A-10 but should almost always be able to beat it in a 1 circle fight.
Would a SHAR be much different? Always understood them to be a better fighter than a GR9 or AV88?
much better in a dogfight than a Harrier II
I wanted to see who could land after the midair collision.
What about the harriers thrust nozels?
The Harrier wasn't flown even close to it's capability.
shame the americans didn't have access to the phimat flare pods. Otherwise the harrier would have had basically every advantage (if you include viffing)
Why would give both Air Craft full load out,if they would be going Deploy Digh fleet
Do the thing the harrier does. At the merge, slam the nozzles forward. Pull the nose up, rotate clock wise to nose down while pulling nose up . Now you’re level point 180 from where you were. Hold the hover and rotate to the target ( sit in the middle of the circle, he can’t beat you around the circle). Missiles… boom
in game you can't fire missiles or the gun in hover mode.
@@simba1113 ooooof. Bummer. Can you slam the nozzles back, fire, slam them down, rotated, lock, slam, fire? Might need an extra hand, and some altitude.
Simba, wow that was an intense battle!
thank you. I hope it was entertaining. cheers thanks for watching.
Jesus the A-10 is a TERRIFYING opponent
The A-10 is a beast. The Air Force was planning a replacement for it but the new designs were basically just another A-10. When you've got something that works stick with it.
Unrelated but it just came to mind that an interesting scenario would be imagine Linebacker II in 1972 over Hanoi but instead of it being done by the USAF with the B-52 imagine if it had been done by the Soviets with either Tu-95s or Tu-16s. How would they have performed?
Eurofighter vs Mirage?
I have never thought about this bout. Do either of them have an air to air gunsight?
The Harrier does - but it's not radar assisted
This was such a awesome video, specially for the A-10 my 2nd favorite plane to the F-15. I keep trying to tell some of the right people about some of the things I've seen you guys do with the A-10 and that it could come into some good use in Ukraine with F-16's and Russian Anti-Air Systems mainly being depleted day by day and the Ukrainian Anti-Air Systems getting closer to the front lines the A-10 escorted by the F-16 could do a lot of damage in Ukraine. But I seem to be too low on the Totem pole to be heard which I guess I can understand seeing as I just volunteered to go over 4 months ago. And I have been jumping through hoops till yesterday when I was approved to go and start Training in Germany then Poland for the next 4-6 months. But great video guys!
A10 vs euro fighter?
the AV8B is faster, use that and climb rate to stay away from the better turning A-10. Boom and zoom it 10 mabe 20 times till its dead or lands on just 1 wing. ;-)
Can you try the new Chinese Long-Range PL-17 Missile? Is ready on DCS, or Not?