Is Love Canon in Bionicle?
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- Опубліковано 7 бер 2021
- In our newest Bionicle topic video we discuss one of the most heavily debated facets of the Biological Chronicle; is love canon? Chime in your opinion in the comment section below, let's keep it cordial! Thanks!
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Huki: Maku I love yo....
Greg Farshtey: I'm gonna have to stop you right there
Just because matoran, turaga and toa can’t feel love doesn’t mean that love doesn’t exist.
**laughs in Agori and Glatorian**
Not the ship I'd use as an example. Matoran x toa makes it feel awkward. Perhaps Jaller x Hahli instead
some extra information:
Allegedly in the novelization of Wed of shadow's written by greg himself, matau builds a nest incase nokama get's "the urge"
I definitely agree. Friendships and deep bonds have already an established part of the culture in the Matoran universe. It really isn’t a stretch that some of the beings there would seek a more intimate bond with those they care for. And as you put it, love is something that goes beyond that of a romance. I would also like to point to Wall-E that love is something that doesn’t need flesh and blood to exist.
Just look at many of the Toa, they see each other like siblings and even refer to each other as such. They aren't physically capable of having families, but that doesn't stop their familial bond.
Didn't Velika give everyone free will, and personalities and stuff? So I'm pretty sure they're physically capable of feeling love.
If nor physically, then at the very least mentally.
I agree they are capable of emotional and affectionate relationships, but I highly doubt they can be physically intimate. Their artificial biology just doesn't have that capability. Plus they pretty much have an infinite life span.
@@taqresu5865 I think "physically capable of feeling love" refers to how their brain works, not intimacy. Just an observation
@@rottenappple3716 You misunderstood what I meant. When I said they weren't capable of being physically intimate, I was referring to the act of reproduction and trying to convey my meaning in a PG, SFW manner. The Great Beings designed the Matoran, Toa, and similar beings like mindless machines with a nigh immortal lifespan and the ability to be repaired or repurposed to suit the needs of the giant robot.
Obviously the residents later obtained sentience, free will, and the ability to express emotions, and love is a byproduct of that. But considering that gender seems to be an identity tied to their element, and not biology, "Romantic Love" is way different for these artificial beings than it is for us.
The first thing any fanfiction adds is a reconstruction procedure that gives everyone naughty bits for no reason lol
Unfortunately you are all too correct
Ah, the smell of Rule 34 in the morning
@@heyheyitsjae2475 or justification for gali to have takanuvas babies lmao
I do recall someone asking Greg Farshtey about kiina and if she had any emotions toward Mata Nui...he responded that he always thought of those two being a couple!
4:15 Vakama's dumb smirk always cracked me up as a kid.
Short answer: yesn't
Bionicle had multiple creatives behind it so I’m not a necessarily a big fan of the whole idea that Greg is the one who’s seen as the end all be all author. If Greg made the series outline Faber and Thompson, maybe I’d understand better. Bionicle isn’t an “autor project” so treating it that way doesn’t work.
He's the only one still connected directly to LEGO, though. He's the only person authorized to canonize by LEGO themselves.
Furthermore LEGO and Advance themselves didn’t want romance, saying research showed that boys found it icky.
@@Luka1180 “He’s the only person authorized to canonize by LEGO themselves.”
And what a shittier world it is for it.
@@Luka1180 not anymore
I like to think it is. I just can't not picture Hewkii and Macku and Jaller and Hahli together.
Also I'm so glad you're back man. Your videos have given my 2021 a great start!
Yeah, its weird that people misinterpret what Greg says about love, I think he means that the matoran can't biologically reproduce. They can feel love for each other to extent, but is never driven by Biological means, no pun intended.
8:20 Dude, you didn't need to make us remember Matoro TnT TnT TnT
I believe it should be.
What a comparison of George Lucas to Greg. Nice vid Zach!
So glad u r back, watching your reviews was a part of my childhood
The idea that the toa feel no love for each other is just silly. What would motivate them to fight and die for the matoran and their peers if not love?
Maybe not romantic love but love of life and friends.
at this point it's less of a debate and more of a meme tbh
Greg is literally the guy who made Velika a Great Being who also happens to be the guy who gave the Matoran Universe sentience so who's to say they can't have emotions. Sexual Love is different than Romantic Love.
it should be Canon
My stance is and always will be: Romance is possible, but it's so uncommon that most matoran aren't even aware of the concept. Most matoran are just aroace.
Keep the vids up
Feelings of love is more or less a mandatory part of any given species considered intelligent by our standards, at least in my mind. I mean, other primates, dolphins and and lots of other species other than humans clearly show affection for their friends, parents, offspring, even partner in some cases (many species mate for life) and greve when they die.
Love is canon to Bionicle, because love doesn't necessarily have to be romantic or sexual to be love
My head canon, if you will, isn't that inhabitants of the matoran universe can't feel love, but that their love is like a "platonic relationship" in humans, and derives more from a strong sense of unity than from romance or a sex drive; after all, unity is one if the three virtues that they live by.
What is stopping the Makuta from love?
he's an incel
Teridax is a narcissist incapable of caring about anyone else
Gorast is simping (?) for Teridax but this might just be obsession or idolization
The rest don't seem interested at any point
When your true physical body is composed of energized gas it’s difficult to get physically intimate without losing your identity…
That was meant as a joke but is actually an interesting thought experiment.
Since you probably aren’t referring to sexual love my serious answer would be more sociological. The Makuta species is mostly composed of ambitious and amoral individuals who will do anything to secure more power. Any Makuta with more sentimental dispositions are likely to be taken advantage of and eventually eliminated until only the most cutthroat of the species remain, making it difficult for even platonic relationships to form between Makuta.
@@skeletonpatch the main universe Makuta is indeed cutthroat
But there are established alternative universe Makuta like the Melding universe Makuta
I am not sure, but this does rise the question whether Makuta could do fusion with another Makuta like the Toa
nothing will make me stop shipping jaller/hahli
Other than that, i can kinda see nokama x vakama. Or at least a strong friendship when they were the toa metru.
Where did you get that awesome massive black Pakari? Did Lego ever release that?
Late reply, but some footage released by Christian Faber shows a large Onua statue set up in a LEGO store on BIONICLE’s launch day in 2001. I think it was the mask, upper torso and arms built into a shelf that held canister sets.
LEGO probably had a few of those made to promote the theme and he must have gotten lucky and was able to get his hands on at least the mask.
I think there was a hint Matau had some kind of romantic interest in Nokama in one of the books if I didn't misunderstand the line. I think romantic feelings are probably a thing in Bionicle, but seeing as this was targeted at, as stated 8 to 12 year olds it was just simply something the story was never gonna go that far into as it served very little purpose in the narrative.
It only became 'non-canon' when Greg didn't want to write it. Really begs the question if Greg should have that authority or not.
Totally. It’s liken to the whole, “should Star Wars fans be allowed to have the original unadulterated theatrical cuts or is George Lucas the ultimate say all end all in sw” debate.
@@LegomationStudio At least George is the originator of Star Wars.
Not what Greg's said. He has said LEGO decided they didn't want it to be a thing because many boys, based on marketing research, found it "icky."
3:45 in the czech version this scene is
Greg really said love don’t exist in my world
Greg is typing
it's more like yes and no at the same time.
let's just say they are just a lovely couple and that's the only thing with love that BIONICLE!
I think he meant not romantical stuff not love as loving things or people... it's like transformers in the align continuity and even if there are some exceptions to the rule it doesn't invalidates the rule.. I mean maybe a few character defined their love for others in a personal way but nor romantically, PLUS well there is the freedom that media takes sometimes over the canon
Also one more thing to say: The reason we see what look like romantic feelings as seen with Hewkii & Macku as well as Jaller & Hahli is because films & television always wanted to do fanservice excuses.
I will say, mnog was made before there really was even a “fan base” yet, so it’s hard to say Maku and Huki were fan service in Mnog. Jaller and Hahli in MoL, potentially I can see that. However I don’t personally think the production company, Creative Capers, had any fan service in mind there. Just creative liberties they took.
💕💕💕💕💕💕💕
I think it's definitely safe to say that not all love has to be romantic, so it exists in that sense, and even so, romantic love doesn't have to turn sexual. Idk I'm asexual, maybe I'm projecting, but I'd just like to think the beings of the Matoran Universe just really like holding hands and having soft, fluffy, lovey dovey moments and there absolutely is reason to create a deeper bond on an emotional level. The kissing is kinda weird though ngl since they're trying to kiss through masks lol. Anyways Bionicle is full of ace icons, romantic and aromantic alike, and nothing can change my view on that lmao.
This may turn out to be a lengthy comment here, but here are my thoughts on the matter. It clear by LEGO's marketing that Bionicle was for boys, and thus has a greater emphasis towards an action genre. And it is clear that in-canon, we're just seeing a whole ecosystem of artificial organisms with nearly limitless longevity and weren't originally programmed with identities, emotions, or free will.
That being said, since they received autonomy, the beings within have developed real emotions. A classic example being familial. We constantly see Toa address each other as siblings and Turaga being addressed as elders (even though most of the Matoran are nearly as old as the Turaga). We've seen the entire range of emotions.
So I really do think beings in Bionicle can develop emotional relationships, even affectionate ones, but nothing physically intimate.
Along those same lines, I don't thing gender really matters as much in the Bionicle universe. I think it really just applies to identity, pronouns, personality characteristics. Some characters like Roodaka may appear more physically feminine, but their physical functions don't include anything for reproduction.
But the Agori, Glatorians, and the villagers in G2 may very likely have that physical potential.
Does the matoran language even feature gendered pronouns? Its all translated to English for our convenience, but there's nothing to say that they even make that distinction in their language. If anything, the human concept of gender is more comparable to the bionicle concept of element than anything else. "Are you a boy or a girl?" "I'm a ta"
Actually, that can probably please the twitter and the Tumblr refugees, since you could argue that homoromantic relationships are more likely to arise, as matoran don't often travel to other koros
@@jameswalker199 I'm not entirely sure myself. The closest thing I can think of is using the terms "Brother" or "Sister." But again, it could be the closest English equivalent. The only element that really has both genders is Av (as fast as I'm aware).
One thing to think about is what the disproportionate gender distribution says about Mata Nui as a giant robot. The Matoran are supposed to be Mata Nui's cells, so to speak. Does this mean that Mata Nui is 5/6th Male, 1/6th Female?
Their entire society is basically all to serve one giant artificial mechanism/organism. So maybe the uneven distribution isn't sexist, but just an indication of how "masculine" and "feminine" one giant individual is.
Take that Twitter lol
The answer I’ve seen is that the Great Beings, who themselves were primarily organic and reproduced biologically and thus had distinct gender roles like we do, projected their gendered perceptions on the Matoran.
The Av-Matoran were apparently the first to be built and thus they were built in either gender while prototyping for the six primary elements. One of the less prevalent elements (I think it was psionics) was prototyped as male but was switched to female before full production because the stereotypically male personality traits led them to be too aggressive.
The Matoran were basically intended to serve specific functions based on their elements and the Great Beings projected gender identities onto them based on those roles despite the fact that there was no practical need for this, and doing so inevitably had interesting consequences when Velika gave all of them free will.
@@skeletonpatch That's an interesting possibility. But if I recll, the Great Beings are the same species as the Agori of Bara Magna. So they are initially organic beings with possible mechanical enhsncement. Obviously their genders aren't divided by "element," but they also may have a prolonged lifespan due to their enhancements.
Ok this video is great and all but I legit thought you were Logan Paul for a second.
In another reality. Maybe I am...
The only thing I could think is maybe the people adamant about love not being canon are aromantic and think it would be cool to have that represented in a something they really like. However, the argument “there is no love because it wont lead anywhere” doesn’t feel like aromantic representation to me, it just feels like he’s implying that asexual, romantic relationships cant exist, and that’s wack. I feel like it would’ve just made more sense if it was “there is no love because they dont feel that way about one another” (which doesnt seem to be true imo but still). Boiling it down to reproduction wasnt very solid.
Great collection of nuanced arguments here, especially the note about love not needing to be romantic.
I agree, as an aromantic, I'm not a huge fan of how romantic and sexual attraction are so intertwined in Greg's statements.
I take the opinion that it can be, but "isn't important to the plot". Maybe there could have been a romance story, but only if it added to the narrative.
Hold my beer.
Greg Farshtey says PLATONIC sex ONLY.
I don't like the idea of the matoran being mechanical means they don't feel love. Sexual and romantic attraction are very different
Christian Faber ships Takanuva and Gali though... and I'd say his word is higher than Greg's here. 😆
I would agree.
What... he does? Where???
Love? Yes. Romantic love? No. More than friendship kind of love, to the point of being a super close sibling? Yes. Which couild MAYBE be considered close to romantic in some ways?
I mean sex abs romance CAN be mutually exclusive, if a bring has a full range of emotions and isn't aromantic, then I don't see why they wouldn't be able to form romanctic bonds.
@@rottenappple3716 Because word of god from Greg and LEGO says they can’t. The end.
There is an AU where Roodaka turned into a Simp for Vakama and you can't convince me otherwise.
Love is as cannon as Jaller being son of Lhii the surfer.
Why wouldn't it be canon? The matoran's bodies and organs don't impact their ability to form relationships. And bionicle is a project with dozens upon dozens of authors, a single creator's word shouldn't be taken seriously if the story contradicts their claim, or if the claim straight up makes no sense.
That's a fake story made up by the Turaga. In fact, Lhii the surfer is really Toa Lhikan.
@@Luka1180 In the earliest versions of MNOG, Jala calls himself the son of Lhii.
@@Boltscrap Yes. But that was a story made up by the Turaga, which they told him. Remember, they didn't have memories of Metru Nui. And Metru Nui, btw, was ALWAYS planned since the beginning. They were like "Jaller, you're the son of Lhii the surfer." And I believe they also might've said that's why he wears the same Hau,
@@Luka1180 You don't understand it, do you? Familial relationships and romance were things written by the templar studios, not by the actual story team. They're things like "the ancient carvers", early installment weirdness not approved by the BIONICLE story team, and thus never in-continuity, outside of things referenced in media actually approved by the story team, which is why Gali's mental connection with Takua is canon, it appeared in Takanuva Blog, which is fully canon.
I'm going to accept that love is NOT canon out of reasons
1) Elemental differences e.g fire could be beaten by water or ice beats water (reference to Luigi's Mansion)
2) Their Kanohi masks have gender vibes like the KauKau on Gali, in the first year of Bionicle, the five other Toa have to necessarily retrieve their KauKaus, even Tahu retrieves his
3) They can't kiss (despite the Hewkii & Macku scene in the Bohrok Online Animation) cuz their actual mouths are inside the masks they wear
4) Matoran or Toa have to transform into Toa or Turaga as Hewkii had meaning he & Macku cannot hook up cuz a Toa & a Matoran having romantic times, no offense, looks completely ridiculous
5) Love is human tradition, Bionicle is not infested with humans at all
Your first three have nothing to do with how the concept of romance works.
Never understand the 'love is not canon' insisters, that's probably the weirdest part of it all and has led to some less than pleasant discussions.
Reminder that we can always reject "Author Canon" like we do with J.K. Rowling
You: "Is Love Canon in Bionicle? Let's find out-"
Me: "WOAHWOAHWOAH, Just wait a minute! Do you wana break hewkii's and macku's heart?"
You: "Well, no, but-"
Me: "THAN IT IS CANON!!!"
Well yes, but, actually no.