Making the switch this month, R9 and CS wheel. Very excited. I think it’s important that you said “I still had fun with my old wheel”. It’s as simple as that, regardless of your setup, sim racing is just fun. Don’t feel pressured to upgrade, enjoy the ride and there’s a solid chance more competitive choices will likely come out by the time you’re ready!
Great point about choices emerging mate - not so long ago a budget direct drive wheel was unheard of! And you’re spot on - enjoyment is what matters most!
Really appreciate this honest reveiw. Having myself had a failed delve into a Fanatec wheel in the past its refreshing to have a review not blow smoke up a manufacturers a... to win brownie points like SO MANY others out there.
I can’t remember if you have RF2 or not. Now that you have a DD wheel, RF2 is a must plus it’s on sale for super cheap. RF2 and a DD is the ultimate sim racing FFB experience. I know you love your online racing, but trust me RF2 is the best offline hotlapping experience. I’d even say once you set up AI properly it’s arguably the best AI sim but that’s my opinion and I recommend you at least try it out, especially as RF2 is on sale.
Great video, and I appreciate your honesty! I’ve had the GT DD Pro for about 3 weeks now, (upgrading from the csl elite); and the biggest difference is the smoothness, and consistency- What’s made me “faster” are my pedals (Fanatec V3) -
The simple answer is if you can afford a DD then buy one! I’ve owned a G29, an old school csl elite belt wheel and now on a DD2. The DD2 is a completely different ball game. The first time you try one, the power and detail that comes through is amazing along with how smooth it is. Immersion levels through the roof and worth every penny!
I will concur that maybe immersion is improved, along with fidelity but as you say speed is earned by hours of practice. A lot of the very fast guys don't use FFB at all or only slightly, FFB is for immersion and not speed. So the dilemma is, does the cost warrant the extra realism or would the money be better spent on FPS or triples or VR or rig or? If money is no barrier then I'd say buy, buy, buy but if like most you're on a budget then as our Ben states, start with the pedals, makes the most difference and helps consistency no end. Was hoping for a lot of secondhand DD's swamping the market once people started returning to work, hobbies etc but it didn't really transpire. Fanatec and a couple other manufacturers are trying to bring DD wheels to the masses with the cost dropping quite dramatically and it is rare to hear someone actually dis a DD but then, if I'd just spent a fortune on some hardware, I too would find it hard to slam it but I'm not sure this is the case either. Personally I would love the extra fidelity as for me it's all about the immersion, fancy speed has passed me by, swiftly! Another fine video buddy, bravo!
I would partially disagree on the statement that “FFB is for immersion not speed”. I will say however that better system does not directly translate to faster laptimes. But predictability of what you can do will translate to speed though. When you know what the car is doing and when it’s doing, you have control of your car. It will be a challenge even for fast boys to tell the car has lost traction by only judging the rate of the sway of the car. Although anybody can be good at something but won’t be as good if he had better equipment equipments one’s potential of becoming a great simracer could be held back.
@@beege4481 A lot of the big esports stars turn their FFB off or to minimal as it interferes with their control, you do not need FFB to drive fast at all, it is for immersion only, it makes it feel like you're driving a real car, speed comes from hours and hours of learning every lump and bump on a track and circumventing it faster than all others, FFB will hinder you in this pursuit. The fastest driver in our club uses something akin to a child's toy as a wheel and pedals and he makes the rest of us look stupid and it doesn't even possess FFB.
Lower ffb yes but none at all is just not true. I know what makes you faster and that’s not only for simracing but in real life as well. So since ffb will hinder simracers for pursuit to faster laptimes, might as well do it in real life too. No ffb at all. Just drive by wire. Who are you kidding? Yes one could be faster on a xbox xontroller than the one on a g27 but for a non-proper wheel user must come with experience. Imagine how much better he could become with proper one. And which club are you racing in by the way?
@@beege4481 I race at SCB and we also have a very fast controller driver. I'll bow to your superior knowledge, I'm not one to get into arguments over things that make no difference to life. You have your view and I have mine, of course the facts are the facts but they obviously aren't important here. Have a good day!
Thank you Ben - another excellent insightful video. I guess it's time to give my old G27 to my young nephew and get a real wheel :) Unfortunately the wait for a CSL DD is now a few months, but anyhow you've convinced me to finally upgrade. Race on! Cheers and Happy New year!
Simagic alpha mini would be a great fun alternative to csl dd... The quickrelease is nrg type for road/race cars.. and u can slap ebay cheap basic steering wheel on it with no issue.. (especially if u plan on having separate shifter and button box)
Another excellent vid Ben with some very honest assessments i bought a second hand fanatec wheel and clubsport V2 dd base and brand new V3 pedals but i haven't improved much because basically i don't practice enough! Looking forward to your future vids m8 keep it up.
The main reason DD wheelbases feels better is rigidity. Most of the belt-driven wheels are made of plastic and they are not right enough. If a compound flex, it absorbs some energy and you lose detail in high-frequency signals/movements. In DD wheels, since the wheel is directly connected to the shaft it shelf and there is nothing in between that absorbs energy, you feel much more detail. So, DD may not be the absolute upgrade for everyone. if you have a high-end, metal body belt-driven wheel like Fanatec CSW 2.5, your benefit of moving to DD wheel may be lessened.
No plans to replace my G27. The worst thing about it is the stock rim, I replaced it with a cheap 13". I'm in VR so the look of the rim is not important. Pedals have a load cell mod. I've also got 4 tactile transducers giving me feedback on what the car is doing. Wind sim for even more immersion. All of these mods were diy and relatively cheap. I'm sure a DD would be smoother, but my setup is way more immersive, provides more feedback on exactly what the car is doing, and is a fraction of the price of the DD wheel.
I had a g27 when I started simracing and it was an ok wheel. Then replaced it with t300rs and I thought it was night and day difference and it actually made me a lot of a better driver. But now I have the sc2 pro and I can say it is not so different yet it is very different than what I used to. But, the adjustability of what ffb you wanna feel, the details of it and the software feature is what makes it a lot better. The dd itself, just because It’s a DD wheel it doesn’t mean it will make someone faster NO. heck I was 2 seconds slower than when I was using my t300rs with same car, track and car setup. It all boils down to how much you are used to a system doesn’t matter expensive or not. But you can only see your potential as what your equipment is capable of. Still right technique, race-craft and lots of practice is what puts you to a better finish. My opinion? If I was to do it again, I would have known what my end goal was in simracing in terms of equipment and would have decided to save money and bought the DD right away. Of course someone has to get his hands on the equipment to really know the difference. I don’t blame em. have a great day
Great video Ben! I don’t have a direct drive wheel, but I have the same experience from turning off the FFB on my CSL Elite from time to time. I get very close to the times I already worked hard to get with FFB within 20-30 laps! But of course the consistency is nowhere near driving with FFB.
That’s the spirit! I only upgraded because I got a really good offer on a second hand unit and I knew a lad who would buy my TX. Then again I do look longingly at more expensive gear all the time 😂😂
Depending on how my 2022 goes, and how the world's 2022 is going. I might be able to get a CSL DD. I figure going from the TMX to a CSL DD is a big enough jump to make it worth upgrade.
I was still having fun with my Logitech g923, and always wanted a DD wheel. I do race on the weekends so I wanted something to feel more like the real thing. Only had my Fanatec for 12 hours now and DAMN I can't put into words the difference in feeling. But great so far
I went to the CSL DD from a CSW 2.5 a few months back. I'd read and listened to the reviews first, and was pretty excited about it all but have to say I was a bit underwhelmed at first try. 'Meh' was my official review. BUT! I then read some interesting stuff online about completely getting rid of old CSW Fanatec drivers, and a clean install. I did that, and suddenly the fidelity came alive and the difference was night and day. The CSL DD is all the wheel I need. I don't see the sense in 20NM of arm-smashing crash ability (I saw a video yesterday of a guy nearly suffering an injury with a DD1 in a crash!). If my CSL DD broke or blew up (out of warranty), I would definitely buy another.
The main reason having 20Nm+ is to be able to simulate high downforce as well as vintage racing cars with no power steering without making the FFB clip
I just upgraded my pedals. I ordered the TLCM pedals, they should be delivered tomorrow, next step is a actual pc because i race on a laptop with a seperate monitor right now. Also will be looking for a sturdy mounting option next. The wheel i use is a logitech g29.
I have the thrustmaster T GT II now a couple of weeks, and I liked it very much, all the bumps and potholes on the track are you feeling in the steer, it's very immersive. For now I am happy with the trustmaster T GT II. Maybe in the future I am going for a fanatec steering wheel.
i find myself consistently doing a 0.5 - 1 sec faster laptimes with CSL DD compared to TSPC ... not to mention I know much earlier when I make a mistake ... so even after 2 beers I catch those slides :P
DD wheel is not easy to test drive so it's very hard to decide on spending 1k or more for a good one,all the reviews i have watched do not talk about the difference in sound and that is hard to understand,i have used Logitech's loudest FF PC PS3 wheel for years but my wife hates the awful grind the wheel makes when you rotate it side to side not so much the rumble and rattles it makes just the fast rotation whine it makes,so i want a quiet wheel without losing the FF and rumble my old wheel has because it is true you can get first place often enough with an old Logitech but i am willing to spend a lot more for less noise and cringe from my wife but just would like more input about sound differences.
Hey Jon - thanks for stopping by buddy. So I got my wheelbase upon seeing someone from the community advertising it on Twitter, but the best website I’ve seen is Race Department, who have a dedicated sim racing second hand marketplace. I believe Facebook is also v good, and of course eBay is also worth a look - that’s where I’ve sold my old stuff previously.
Making the switch this month, R9 and CS wheel. Very excited. I think it’s important that you said “I still had fun with my old wheel”. It’s as simple as that, regardless of your setup, sim racing is just fun. Don’t feel pressured to upgrade, enjoy the ride and there’s a solid chance more competitive choices will likely come out by the time you’re ready!
Great point about choices emerging mate - not so long ago a budget direct drive wheel was unheard of! And you’re spot on - enjoyment is what matters most!
Really appreciate this honest reveiw. Having myself had a failed delve into a Fanatec wheel in the past its refreshing to have a review not blow smoke up a manufacturers a... to win brownie points like SO MANY others out there.
I can’t remember if you have RF2 or not. Now that you have a DD wheel, RF2 is a must plus it’s on sale for super cheap. RF2 and a DD is the ultimate sim racing FFB experience. I know you love your online racing, but trust me RF2 is the best offline hotlapping experience. I’d even say once you set up AI properly it’s arguably the best AI sim but that’s my opinion and I recommend you at least try it out, especially as RF2 is on sale.
Great video, and I appreciate your honesty! I’ve had the GT DD Pro for about 3 weeks now, (upgrading from the csl elite); and the biggest difference is the smoothness, and consistency- What’s made me “faster” are my pedals (Fanatec V3) -
The simple answer is if you can afford a DD then buy one! I’ve owned a G29, an old school csl elite belt wheel and now on a DD2. The DD2 is a completely different ball game. The first time you try one, the power and detail that comes through is amazing along with how smooth it is. Immersion levels through the roof and worth every penny!
too expensive to have problems ....
I don't think a DD wheel would even be in my "Top 100 Things To Buy For £1000". That represents nearly a month's income for me.
I will concur that maybe immersion is improved, along with fidelity but as you say speed is earned by hours of practice. A lot of the very fast guys don't use FFB at all or only slightly, FFB is for immersion and not speed. So the dilemma is, does the cost warrant the extra realism or would the money be better spent on FPS or triples or VR or rig or? If money is no barrier then I'd say buy, buy, buy but if like most you're on a budget then as our Ben states, start with the pedals, makes the most difference and helps consistency no end. Was hoping for a lot of secondhand DD's swamping the market once people started returning to work, hobbies etc but it didn't really transpire. Fanatec and a couple other manufacturers are trying to bring DD wheels to the masses with the cost dropping quite dramatically and it is rare to hear someone actually dis a DD but then, if I'd just spent a fortune on some hardware, I too would find it hard to slam it but I'm not sure this is the case either. Personally I would love the extra fidelity as for me it's all about the immersion, fancy speed has passed me by, swiftly! Another fine video buddy, bravo!
I would partially disagree on the statement that “FFB is for immersion not speed”. I will say however that better system does not directly translate to faster laptimes. But predictability of what you can do will translate to speed though. When you know what the car is doing and when it’s doing, you have control of your car. It will be a challenge even for fast boys to tell the car has lost traction by only judging the rate of the sway of the car. Although anybody can be good at something but won’t be as good if he had better equipment equipments one’s potential of becoming a great simracer could be held back.
@@beege4481 A lot of the big esports stars turn their FFB off or to minimal as it interferes with their control, you do not need FFB to drive fast at all, it is for immersion only, it makes it feel like you're driving a real car, speed comes from hours and hours of learning every lump and bump on a track and circumventing it faster than all others, FFB will hinder you in this pursuit. The fastest driver in our club uses something akin to a child's toy as a wheel and pedals and he makes the rest of us look stupid and it doesn't even possess FFB.
Lower ffb yes but none at all is just not true. I know what makes you faster and that’s not only for simracing but in real life as well. So since ffb will hinder simracers for pursuit to faster laptimes, might as well do it in real life too. No ffb at all. Just drive by wire. Who are you kidding? Yes one could be faster on a xbox xontroller than the one on a g27 but for a non-proper wheel user must come with experience. Imagine how much better he could become with proper one. And which club are you racing in by the way?
@@beege4481 I race at SCB and we also have a very fast controller driver. I'll bow to your superior knowledge, I'm not one to get into arguments over things that make no difference to life. You have your view and I have mine, of course the facts are the facts but they obviously aren't important here. Have a good day!
Thank you Ben - another excellent insightful video. I guess it's time to give my old G27 to my young nephew and get a real wheel :) Unfortunately the wait for a CSL DD is now a few months, but anyhow you've convinced me to finally upgrade. Race on! Cheers and Happy New year!
Simagic alpha mini would be a great fun alternative to csl dd...
The quickrelease is nrg type for road/race cars.. and u can slap ebay cheap basic steering wheel on it with no issue.. (especially if u plan on having separate shifter and button box)
Another excellent vid Ben with some very honest assessments i bought a second hand fanatec wheel and clubsport V2 dd base and brand new V3 pedals but i haven't improved much because basically i don't practice enough! Looking forward to your future vids m8 keep it up.
Club sport V2 is belt drive.
The main reason DD wheelbases feels better is rigidity. Most of the belt-driven wheels are made of plastic and they are not right enough. If a compound flex, it absorbs some energy and you lose detail in high-frequency signals/movements. In DD wheels, since the wheel is directly connected to the shaft it shelf and there is nothing in between that absorbs energy, you feel much more detail. So, DD may not be the absolute upgrade for everyone. if you have a high-end, metal body belt-driven wheel like Fanatec CSW 2.5, your benefit of moving to DD wheel may be lessened.
No plans to replace my G27. The worst thing about it is the stock rim, I replaced it with a cheap 13". I'm in VR so the look of the rim is not important. Pedals have a load cell mod. I've also got 4 tactile transducers giving me feedback on what the car is doing. Wind sim for even more immersion. All of these mods were diy and relatively cheap. I'm sure a DD would be smoother, but my setup is way more immersive, provides more feedback on exactly what the car is doing, and is a fraction of the price of the DD wheel.
I had a g27 when I started simracing and it was an ok wheel. Then replaced it with t300rs and I thought it was night and day difference and it actually made me a lot of a better driver. But now I have the sc2 pro and I can say it is not so different yet it is very different than what I used to. But, the adjustability of what ffb you wanna feel, the details of it and the software feature is what makes it a lot better. The dd itself, just because It’s a DD wheel it doesn’t mean it will make someone faster NO. heck I was 2 seconds slower than when I was using my t300rs with same car, track and car setup. It all boils down to how much you are used to a system doesn’t matter expensive or not. But you can only see your potential as what your equipment is capable of. Still right technique, race-craft and lots of practice is what puts you to a better finish. My opinion? If I was to do it again, I would have known what my end goal was in simracing in terms of equipment and would have decided to save money and bought the DD right away. Of course someone has to get his hands on the equipment to really know the difference. I don’t blame em. have a great day
Amazing video as always Ben!!! Please continue with the amazing work
Great video Ben!
I don’t have a direct drive wheel, but I have the same experience from turning off the FFB on my CSL Elite from time to time. I get very close to the times I already worked hard to get with FFB within 20-30 laps! But of course the consistency is nowhere near driving with FFB.
Thanks Ben ... immersion is the thing ! thank you for discribing your experiences of using a DD wheel ... I have to own one at some point !
Still on my T300RSGT for about 8 years lmfao, still runs amazing and won’t upgrade until it breaks.
That’s the spirit! I only upgraded because I got a really good offer on a second hand unit and I knew a lad who would buy my TX. Then again I do look longingly at more expensive gear all the time 😂😂
Depending on how my 2022 goes, and how the world's 2022 is going. I might be able to get a CSL DD. I figure going from the TMX to a CSL DD is a big enough jump to make it worth upgrade.
Great informative video Ben. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers Walt!
I was still having fun with my Logitech g923, and always wanted a DD wheel. I do race on the weekends so I wanted something to feel more like the real thing. Only had my Fanatec for 12 hours now and DAMN I can't put into words the difference in feeling. But great so far
What do you feel about the DD now?
I went to the CSL DD from a CSW 2.5 a few months back. I'd read and listened to the reviews first, and was pretty excited about it all but have to say I was a bit underwhelmed at first try. 'Meh' was my official review. BUT! I then read some interesting stuff online about completely getting rid of old CSW Fanatec drivers, and a clean install. I did that, and suddenly the fidelity came alive and the difference was night and day. The CSL DD is all the wheel I need. I don't see the sense in 20NM of arm-smashing crash ability (I saw a video yesterday of a guy nearly suffering an injury with a DD1 in a crash!). If my CSL DD broke or blew up (out of warranty), I would definitely buy another.
The main reason having 20Nm+ is to be able to simulate high downforce as well as vintage racing cars with no power steering without making the FFB clip
@@Sithhy ffb formula 1 .... 20 nm minimum
Expecting my CSL DD within two weeks! So stoked, I have a G920 now.
Get in Liam! Hope you enjoy it buddy!
The question is not whether should you buy a DD wheel... it is whether you can afford it or find stock xD.
I just upgraded my pedals. I ordered the TLCM pedals, they should be delivered tomorrow, next step is a actual pc because i race on a laptop with a seperate monitor right now. Also will be looking for a sturdy mounting option next. The wheel i use is a logitech g29.
I have the thrustmaster T GT II now a couple of weeks, and I liked it very much, all the bumps and potholes on the track are you feeling in the steer, it's very immersive. For now I am happy with the trustmaster T GT II. Maybe in the future I am going for a fanatec steering wheel.
I went with the Fanatec DD Pro with Boost kit
Nice presentation!
i find myself consistently doing a 0.5 - 1 sec faster laptimes with CSL DD compared to TSPC ... not to mention I know much earlier when I make a mistake ... so even after 2 beers I catch those slides :P
I'm on a Logitech wheel right now. I'm holding out and waiting for the Thrustmaster direct drive later this year.
Good stuff buddy - they’ve been teasing that for ages now!! Hopefully we get a release date soon!
is it a good idea to wait so long?
This dd seems to come walking from the moon....
Awesome video. I can agree on all points 👍
Yo
DD wheel is not easy to test drive so it's very hard to decide on spending 1k or more for a good one,all the reviews i have watched do not talk about the difference in sound and that is hard to understand,i have used Logitech's loudest FF PC PS3 wheel for years but my wife hates the awful grind the wheel makes when you rotate it side to side not so much the rumble and rattles it makes just the fast rotation whine it makes,so i want a quiet wheel without losing the FF and rumble my old wheel has because it is true you can get first place often enough with an old Logitech but i am willing to spend a lot more for less noise and cringe from my wife but just would like more input about sound differences.
How much difference is there between entry level DD and a top one?
Ah I wish I knew buddy - only ever used my 12nm Accuforce v2! One day I’ll get my hands on the really top end wheels!
@@Ben_LaBroca thanks mate
Saying it makes you more consistent but not faster is not accurate. If you do 10 laps in less time with a DD wheel that's literally being faster.
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Hell Yes
Logitech is the way to go here, best quality in the world!
where should I look to find used equipment like what websites
Hey Jon - thanks for stopping by buddy. So I got my wheelbase upon seeing someone from the community advertising it on Twitter, but the best website I’ve seen is Race Department, who have a dedicated sim racing second hand marketplace. I believe Facebook is also v good, and of course eBay is also worth a look - that’s where I’ve sold my old stuff previously.
Thank you very much
@@jonlamb9108 No probs Jon!
Thank you!!!
£500 on a rim…. looks embarrassingly at my Gomez Formula Pro :|
Haha I’d look enviously at it!! 🤣