Unless he got force choked from Vader from those Aspirations... Or ran into Palpatine whod probably cut down most all the Shepard Crew an maybe him too fairly quick.
@@Aracnah pretty hard to make a calibration to stop some one from telepathically choking you though. Hes targeting their throat and windpipe area. Not the suit. An theres no guarantee ME shields can take plasma bolts, fibro blades and something as powerful an lethal as a full powered lightsaber. Which maybe may take a few stab attempts and glancing blows but some saber types are way more powerful and deadly then others. An even the Alliance's best shields probably cant take too much.
I think you are right that the fleet would be wiped out. You did not even mention how Executor alone could probably wipe out a fleet of 300 ships where the largest is barely bigger than a Victory, and have no defenses against her weapons. I think you are wrong about the destruction of the DS2. There are too many guns on the surface, and not stealthed to eyes.....the surface of DS2 is absolutely covered with guns that are manned, the shuttle and probably Normandy itself would never get near the port at all. And, a Kodiak is far, FAR slower than a Tie Interceptor and has about 100km to travel. Never make it. Also, ISD's are only slow when turning and trying to intercept. In ANH, the 2 chasing the Falcon are moving more than an entire ship length per second, putting their space straight line speed at over 5 million KPH. Lastly, you did not even mention the DS2 firing its laser and taking out the Alliance Dreadnoughts quickly.
I think the systems alliance has another advantage in their maneuverability that you may have overlooked. In Star Wars, the method of FTL is hyperspace which generally causes ships to travel too fast and far away in a jump to be of tactical benefit in a battle. BUT, in Mass Effect, the systems Alliance uses mass effect fields to effectively decrease the mass of their vessels in order to perform short-range FTL jumps and their able to do so with little to no prep time or calculations and for as long or brief as they need to to move around a star system or even just around the area surrounding a planet. What this means is that Systems Alliance fleet can maintain their extreme range advantage theoretically indefinitely, by essentially firing repeatedly until a Star destroyer gets near it's own firing range, then the Systems Alliance vessels adjust their course and do a quick FTL jump to another position that's within their range, but far outside the Star Destroyers' range again. Rinse and repeat. They would really only be limited by the number of munitions they have, which considering the standard round of an alliance dreadnought is only 20 Kg fired every fives seconds probably means they have a f**k-ton of ammo. Speaking of which...... It's unclear the capabilities of the smaller class vessels in the alliance, but we at least know that a dreadnought can fire a 20 Kg kinetic projectile at 1.3% the speed of light every 5 seconds, unleash an impact yield of 38 kilotons. Assuming that all nine dreadnoughts coordinate and focus their main guns on a single Star Destroyer, they would be dropping 4.1 megatons of energy on a Star Destroyer every minute, and that doesn't even factor in secondary guns, ship-to-ship missiles, or, ya know, all the other alliance warships. Now I'm not sure what magical statistics they give the star destroyers in the lore, but they clearly do not match what we see in the movies. I will say that in Empire Strikes back, the naval officers seemed pretty concerned with pushing their ships into asteroid fields and had to actively destroy as many as they could to mitigate damage, which suggests that their particle shields are not nearly as effective as one might think. I know its just an RTS game, but Empire at War lends credit to that assumption. Also, the fact that when ships in SW fight each other, their weapons will deal enough damage to drain each other's shield at a pretty decent pace, yet once the shields drop, the weapons fire, while certainly destructive, doesn't seem to release a catastrophic amount of damage in individual shots. Given that, I think with a properly coordinated attack the Systems Alliance fleet could wear down a star destroyers shields in reasonable amount of time. And once that happens, (chuckles) oh boy... if what happened to the two ISDs in Rogue One is any indication, than the alliance should have no problem tenderizing the standard star destroyers in short order. Obviously the executor and larger vessels would be a bit more challenging, but even these are just using weapons that fire plasma projectiles that travel 1/1000th the speed of a ship's main railgun in Mass Effect and gradually dissipate after a few hundred to a few thousnad kilometers. As long as the Alliance maintains their range, which given they have a 10 or 12-1 number advantage and are able to spread out divide the imperial fleet, they should be fine.
QuantumAscension1 the smaller ships like Frigates and fighters where the ones to hunt down ships with no shields and finish them off. Plus in ME3 a lot of the smaller ships had thanix cannon installed on them
Blah blah blah, in the comments there are always the people who says: wAiT, yOu OvErLoOKeD tHiS, tHeY cOuLd WiN iF tHeY dId ThIs. I’m sure he played Mass Effect, and probably he did some researches about their universe. And he said that overlooked somethings to summarize. Cuz at this point Star Wars fans can say: “Oh wait, but on Endor was present the Inferno Squad, to protect the shield, and Shepherd and his sheep couldn’t have a chance and the Death Squad blah blah blah....” Shut up and go fuck yourselves , at least you destroyed the Death Star.
@@kajadeborst8723 to be fair its hard to gather enough for a proper ship count. You see a massive fleet yes, but at a huge distance and only for a split second. I think this video was done fairly well.
Swag Fox I’m pretty sure he said if he overlooked something put it in the comments below. And why you so hostile this is a civil conversation... like damn
Rex better armor weapons and he was trained since birth and if people who can tank tank shots thinks rex was an excellent soldier then I feel that this should not be to hard of a fight then again I’m sure sgt johnson could put up a fight so I take it back this fight is a draw
Didn't the Systems Alliance Navy supplement their Dreadnought force with Supercarriers? I though that was something new that humans brought to the universe.
Yes. Before Humanity entered the galactic scene, the militaries of the Citadel races didn't have the concept of "carriers" as its own class of ship. The Systems Alliance used this as a loophole to get around the restrictions on dreadnoughts. Fits their doctrine better, anyway; they're more about maneuver warfare and combined arms.
Diana Barnett Well, technically the galaxy at large did use field carriers. Most large capital ships in the ME Universe did usually carry a hangar bay for fighter escorts. It was, as said, the humans who introduced the galaxy to dedicated carriers craft.
@@Fyrebrand18 thats true but because of a treaty that i currently cannot remember the name of the Alliance basically just made carriers with dreadnought grade armor and weaponry
Given the Mako’s agility and ability to climb, jump and boost, given any sort of mountainous tarain, the mako I dare say would win with relative ease. Add the Hammerhead into the mix and well that little thing would just spend the entire time jumping between the backs of the AT-ATs
I remember debating Systems Alliance numbers. I can't remember my logic from the past but it was considered a big deal that the Alliance fielded Spacecraft Carriers in a support role which was alien to the uhh... aliens. These vessels were the same size of Dreadnoughts but lacked primary firepower for smallcraft. This distinction of role which wasn't used by other races meant the Alliance could always punch a lot higher than their limited rate. They basically cheated law because Citadel bureaucracy and prejudiced towards Humans led to holes in the legal system. I can't remember how many Carriers the Systems Alliance fielded but it did boost their big ship numbers.
I do recall this as well. The Alliance was the only Navy to use fighters in large numbers. Which, ironically, allowed them to stand up to Reaper fighters better. Didn't help against their capital ships. But the Turians got swatted aside by those too. As would the Imperials, for that matter. Here's a real matchup video: Reapers vs Shadows.
@@shawngillogly6873 Also during the Reaper war the Alliance developed anti matter weaponry in the form of Javelin missiles which ripped apart all forms of matter including energy. This weaponry could work in a similar ways to Ion weaponry in star wars. If a weapon can damage reaper capital ships it could probably hurt a Star Destroyer.
@@wesleygaray2666 I'm not sure if I want to see this for the comedic value, or brain myself for the mental image conjured by the implications expressed.
Honestly his choices on both fronts are lacking. Yes, it's a stealth mission and yes we're keeping with game mechanics instead of common sense but there are better options. If you wanna go with silence and base and kill everyone you choose Garrus and Wrex. Have Garrus knockout the comms and bulldoze through everything on the ground. No way this isnt an intense fire fight and as much as I love Tali she's too squishy. Thane is too squishy. You can stealth all you want but you have to kill everything in that base to keep them from just restarting the shield generator. The only true stealth option that you have is to plant explosives on their communications equipment and on the shield generator. And if you wanna go that route you pick Kasumi and Garrus. Kasumi was a freaking burglar and no slouch when it comes to tech. Garrus is a trained sniper, not sure how turian armed forces works but I'm sure snipers are still taught how to go about unseen and how to pick their targets carefully.
On the ground, I give it to the Alliance all the way. N7 Squads will be the new nightmares for the Stormtroopers. Especially biotics. In space, more a tough call. I'd say the Alliance has the advantage in combat range and speed with their frigates. The fighters and interceptors are no doubt more combat capable than even the TIE Interceptor but I can't say that with any degree of decent certainty. The Empire has more tonnage. I'd say, depending on how the ground engagement goes will decide the fate of the space battle. You are forgetting that, by ME3, the Alliance has made new Normandy-class ships which they can use to bring in more squads. N7 stealth and sabotage specialist unit. It wouldn't just be Shepard. If the Alliance knows about the Imperial locations, they can divide their forces. Using the greater freedom provided by their ME FTL, they can position themselves beforehand to appear directly on top or the bottom of the Imperial fleet in a pincer move. Space is 3D, something Star Wars forgets all the time.
Much as I like your reasoning, a Star Destroyer would cut any ME ship like butter due to the simple fact they're packing primary armament lasers and hundreds of smaller batteries. It's specifically stated the reason lasers are the holy grail of ME weapons development is that they negate kinetic barriers. Just by volume of fire and primary armament, the Empire wins in space. Though granted, on the ground is a bit more of a mixed bag thanks to the versatility of Alliance forces in comparison to Stormtroopers.
@@the13inquisitor59 Stormtroopers who fight plot armor heros or Stormtroopers who fight regular grunts? The Corp was known to be the best, let's not forget the various other varíants of troops, if you go by Disney/Lucasfilm logic, then a bunch of teddy bears could bring down the Empire... oh wait.
"due to the simple fact they're packing primary armament lasers and hundreds of smaller batteries. It's specifically stated the reason lasers are the holy grail of ME weapons development is that they negate kinetic barriers." Well, @@the13inquisitor59 , they do NOT however pack lasers as their primary armament. As every SW fan will point out in a SW vs Star Trek debate, SW ships' "lasers" are NOT actually Lasers, but Plasma based blasters, essentially, that only are called lasers colloquially or out of tradition in universe. Given Incinerate as a power uses plasma and can be blocked by shields, supposedly Turbolasers at least to a degree could be blocked as well. (Though I would agree that ME not having proper energy shields for their ships would put them on a massive disadvantage against the empire, don't get me wrong there - I do think that in space the empire would win).
the Covenant vs Citadel Council, all out war! Obviously before the humans joined the Citadel. And before the Covenant declared war on humans. Also disappointed you didn’t choose Garrus. I mean you can’t have Shepard and Tali in a with out Garrus.
Well in terms of size and weapons covenant ships are basically purple reapers, the numbers are also similar The only advantage of the ME species is that the covies will have to sweep through the whole galaxy to find them, as they are spread entirely through it thanks to the relays, unless of course the covenant find out how to use them, wich may prove difficult for them as it's not Forerunner relics (maybe it is in their eyes? But in both cases possibly heresy), still there's a risk, same for just guessing the direction of their jumps Also infiltration will not be a problem compared to the reapers, and the duration of the war should allow for reverse engineering, wich mean covies possibly using Ezoo (maybe even psychics?) and ME with shields other than kinetic, FTL drives and energy weaponry On the ground i can't exactly say, but it seems ME ground kinetic weaponry is supposedly mostly superior to the UNSC, using rail/gauss action over more standard infantry guns (the games don't seem to really reflect on that impression of tearing through unshielded enemies like paper when it should), they for sure got the species variety on both sides, but the covies do have crushing numbers, despite what seems to be a shortcoming in terms of troop efficiency unless we're talking experienced jackals/elites in command The result? Well unless the covenant declared a holy purge, they want to assimilate ME, it depends on how quickly they can subdue most of the members if the alliance before they catch up and make use of the flaws of a somewhat technologicaly stagnant (/monopoly on relics by the ruling specie) theocracy to turn the tide and force a truce/ hold their ground enought for a schism to fire due to a loss in momentum, if humanity left a mark on the Sanghehili, the Turian surely will leave quite a burn as well
@@scorpixel1866 there is the issue of the krogun though. If the genophage gets cured quickly to provide soliders for the war effort then the krogun could pose a big problem for the covenant. The only think the covenant have that reproduces that fast are the grunts and we all know how easily their heads pop. Hunters might be a good counter though.
Eck you do remember that the time distance between Humanity discovering the Charon Mass Relay and the First-Contact war was only about 10 years. In 30 with the size influence and power of the System Alliance all increasing exponentially so would it make sense for the size of their Navy or at least linearly. Plus lets also not forget the Alliance got around the Dreadnaught limit with Fighter Carriers. So the Alliance should have at least 600 if not more.
Another detail is in the marketing material. One of the live-action trailers featuring news segments prior to and during the Reaper invasion include a clip where a British news anchor and guest are discussing the "thousands" of ships that have gathered in Earth orbit (supposedly as preparation against an attack).
600 seems a bit unrealistic. For instance, though unbound by the treaty of Farixen and remaining relatively isolated from the galaxy ar large for over 300 years, the Geth, a race of sentient AI, only developed as many Dreadnoughts as the Turians. With that in mind, it seems odd for humanity to have been able to create 600 capital ships of Carrier or Dreadnought designation. At most, perhaps in the low hundred, but not more.
@@Fyrebrand18 ; I never said that the Alliance made 600 hundred Carriers and/or dreadnaughts. I said 600 plus ships including cruisers to corvettes. The Turians had only around 30 dreadnaughts at the most. Not to mention the Geth were contained to a small localized area of space. So they had a restricted amount a resources and were probably kept in check by the Turians. Plus using a real life examples midway through WW2 the Allies or even just the US alone had a new ship ready for combat almost every week sometimes daily. A massive military build up is more probable than it may first appear.
At first, I thought "no way, SA would get their asses kicked", but then the more I thought about it and remembered the lore, I think they actually could win quite easily, assuming their weapons could do enough damage to the Imperials. Mass Effect naval combat is much more realistic according to the lore. They usually fight at large distances (like modern jet fighters do now), so in theory, they could probably take out all the TIEs well before they'd been reach them. The ISDs are the real question. But of course, they also have Shepard (and his crew), so I mean, it's quite a bit weighted towards the SA. 🤣 Also, *you should totally do a Shepard vs Darth Vader video* 😁
shepard vs vador is hard to represent as it heavly depend of which shepard you are using^^ I think a weapon oriented shepard would be destroyed by vador, a biotic vs force match could be interesting, and a tech shepard might be able to break the survival system of vador armor's before the fight really begin.
No they'd lose, Mass Effect ships don't posses shields but rather kinetic barriers which are useless actual actual energy weapons and star wars ships possess shielding which protects against both energy and kinetic/projectile weapons and the power generation of their reactors that power their shields and weaponry is much higher then the power generated by alliance weapons. @@k.strong4712 No they had more ships then that. Imperial Fleet was actually this at Endor 1 executor class dreadnought 2 battlecruisers 33 imperial star destroyers 1 victory class star destroyer 1 victory II class star destroyer 3 tector class star destroyers carrack class light cruisers 418 immobilizer class cruisers 3 tartan patrol cruisers 2 EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigate 2,500 fighters, bombers and interceptors That's on top of the Death Star IIs own compliment of the following 7,200 fighters, bombers and interceptors 4 strike cruisers 16 capital ships 2,480 GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats 13,000 support craft
Post-war reconstruction due to damage sustained at the Battle of Coruscant along with changing styles and different inhabitants of the elite districts. if you can afford to live on the good areas of Coruscant you can afford to tear down a skyscraper and put one up of your own design.
@@galbert117 post unending 304 could probably take on entire battlgroups from Me universe those shields/weapons are op af in comparison to Me weapons and kinetic barriers thats not taking into consideration mkIX nuke beaming from the 304
@@thatnorweagiandude now if we're talking about pre Unending 304 or even the Prometheus then it's more even...but transporting a nuke aboard still gives them a win...
@@galbert117 i think even preunending it comes down to hey our shields are barley taking a pounding since ME weapons kinda sucks compared to other universes so yeah nuke shenanigans simply because railguns as a antiship weapon sucks hard. also if no nuke shenanigans they could probs just ram the ME ship/s
@@thatnorweagiandude I do think ME Dreadnoughts hit in the low gigaton range and with their rapid fire rate compared to generally slower main weapon kinetic guns they could theoretically get a 303 or 304 in a tricky situation if they hit them consecutively enough...which wouldn't happen cause a 303 or 304 would run circles around a ME Dreadnough which wouldn't be able to reliably hit the ship while having to maneuver. Any Pre Unending Tauri ship would have to just transport a nuke over and blow it up from the inside since, like you said, the rail railguns would be next to useless.
There are 3 points that I like to make. 1. Alliance ship numbers. 2. Interactions between ME shields and SW Turbolasers 3. How the battle between the navy should have gone differently. First, I feel like you really underplayed how many ships the alliance should have, now let me explain. In the canon timeline, the SA had 200 ships by the time of the First Contact War as you stated. What you forgot to consider was that SA only discovered Mass Effect technology 10 years prior from the Prothean ruins. Meaning that it took only a period of 10 years for the SA to not only reverse engineer Mass Effect technology but then mass up a fleet of 200 ships within that time period of 10 years. Assuming we are being generous and say they managed to reverse engineer ME tech in a year and into fully working prototypes and everything, that gives the SA a production scale of ~22 ships every year. After the FCW with the Turians, the SA would have ramped up production significantly as they now realise the scale that they are facing against and need to match. Let's say 1.5 times like you said. So 22 x 1.5 = 33 ships every year for 30 years. That gives us 990 ships + the 200 original for a total of 1190 ships by the time of ME1. That's not counting the influx of production capabilities the SA would have gained from the increase of colonies. Second, this is more of a nitpick more than anything but ME shields would, in fact, interact with Turbolasers. Turbolasers despite their name are not actual lasers. They are instead high energy particle bolts or plasma. ME shields only fails to block heat and radiation, which Turbolasers are not. They can cause heat and radiation damage but are not purely heat and radiation. To put it another way, you can infer it that ME shields can interact with anything for as long it has Mass which plasma and particles do have. That doesn't mean that it can completely block it of course. Instead, the interaction would be similar to the Phasic Rounds in ME1 in which they can bypass the shields at the cost of reduced damage though given how powerful Turbolasers can be it might make that much of a difference hence the nitpick. The Normandy would be much more effective however as it's Cyclonic Barrier would literally slap away incoming plasma bolts with little to no effort preventing the small bolts from even reaching the hull. Third, the SA has a MASSIVE range advantage over the Empire. When the battle starts, all the SA needs to do is simply stay out of range and continue to pelt them with rounds until they die. The Empire ships would, of course, try to get in range for their own weapons but here's the thing. SA ships are a lot faster than the Star Destroyers at Sublight speeds. They can just reverse and continue to fire without fear. The only way the Empire ships can catch up would be to jump into Hyperspace, but I have yet to see them perform any form of Microjump in canon yet, not to mention that goddamn chase in TLJ. In fact, it would be exactly like the chase from TLJ only with the entire SA fleet flying backwards while firing their guns at the Imperial Fleet trying to catch up. Hell, they could just focus their firepower all onto one ISD at a time to slowly whittle down the Imperial fleet if they want to. And before you talk about firepower difference, the goddamn Executor was taken down by a single fighter crashing into its bridge. Its shields for its bridge may have been down but still, also the fact that SW shields are not as effective against projectile weapons, let alone nuclear level projectiles numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Not to mention all the other possible weapons like the disruptor torpedoes. But in the end, this is just how I feel the battle would have gone and its just one opinion out of thousands. Hell, I haven't even gone into detail on how the SA ground troops would have destroyed the Stormtrooper garrisons on Endor.
Vs matchup Brute or Brute chieftain from Halo vs A Predator from the Predator franchise. With 2 rounds First round unarmed and unarmored. Second round fully armed and armored
Unarmed depends wich predator if is a young or old blood or if is a normal or the super predator Armed the predator take this he just need to use camouflage and snipe the brute from a safe distance with his plasma caster
@Oisín O'Donnell Really all the alliance needs is Shepard anyway. Drop him, Garrus, and Wrex on the death star and let em go to work. Vader is the boss battle in the throne room, Shepard knocks him around with charge and nova while Garrus overloads wis lightsaber with his omni tool and snipes the legs out from under him, with Wrex finishing up by ripping his cybernetic arms off and beating him senseless with them. Palps finds it all very amusing, and spends a few minutes trying to convince Shepard to join him only to be hit by a slew of witty retorts. Palpatine "young fool. You dont know the power of the dark side" Shepard "Cant be that impressive. Didnt help your friend over there much" Palpatine "if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed" Shepard "I think we should talk about this. I'd feel guilty beating up on an old guy" Palpatine "there is nothing left to say" Shepard "really" uses throw to knock him down reactor shaft, then leans over edge "how about 'goodbye'" Also can you imagine Garrus if he saw the superlaser firing chamber. Even he wouldnt want to calibrate that thing.
You are definably correct. Tali is not only the sweetest character, but if she dies before ME3, you can't get the quarian-geth armistice. She's nice to have around and has an outsized impact on the plot, of COURSE she's best girl!
I think it really depends on how dependent the Empire is on visual target acquisition. The Normandy is totally visible to the naked eye, and from the movies and tv shows, it seems pretty clear that TIE pilots often have to see a target to attack it, with details about sensor capabilities and dependencies being criminally unmentioned. If, for instance, one of the fighters screening the Death Star is able to see the Normandy coming, it's game over.
Can you please do which sci fi faction has the best planetary weapon QEP Alamac (Subnautica) Ion cannon rebels (Star Wars) mass driver UNSC (Halo) thank you
Depends what you're defending against. Super bugs like Tyranids or the Flood you'd probably want to find a way to fight without fighting directly or simply destroy the planet to deprive the enemy or a strategic resource.
Lmao I think a krogan would see a wookie bowcaster and laugh saying puny weapon pulling out a krogan warhammer smashing a wookie that has no shields or botics to stop it.
I feel the SA is vastly underestimated here. Not because of ship numbers, but their weapons are a good bit stronger than many people think. Mass effect accelerated slugs can hit with the force of nuclear bombs, no small amount of energy. Remember the gunnery sergeant talking to the recruits about why it's so important to check targets? Remember the codex entry about space engagements that talks about a law which makes it illegal to fire at an enemy if there is a habitable planet behind them? That's because if those shots miss and hit the planet, it's similar to the destructive power that an ICBM would cause. Massive amounts of destruction. And with the Imperials being outnumbered ten to one or more, with new Thanix technology? That prolonged salvo will do a lot more damage than credit is given. Especially when we take Rogue One into account, where the ionized Star Destroyer collides with the fully-shielded destroyer, and cleaves it in half. While giving off a fair amount of energy, it's still nothing compared to what a massive barrage of kinetic projectiles shot at a fraction of the speed of light would do.
This is a great point and something practically everyone who discusses "ME vs SW" conflicts forget. It's always mentioned how ME uses projectiles that the SW universe can easily defend against yet forget that those projectiles are essentially high-yield torpedoes in destructive potential. You've essentially got a seemingly endless supply of missiles (ME bullets) battering the Imperial shields non-stop and we've all seen what normal torpedo damage can do in a Star Wars space battle.
IMO what we actually see takes precedent over what we read. And you can visibly see the impact of mass effect cannons on planets when the quarian fleet is firing at the reaper, and those effects are... underwhelming. Certainly far less powerful than a turbolaser barrage is. Additionally, mass effect kinetic barriers wouldnt even *work* against star wars ships. The thing with the star destroyer only works if you can actually take down their shields. Star wars ships overwhelmingly rely on their shields and get obliterated quite easily otherwise. But none of the capital ship weapons in star wars are ion weapons, so theres nothing they could do to easily shut down star destroyers shields.
@@lenkagamine4145 If we're taking away the lore aspect of Mass Effect in favor of "what we see in the visula media" then the same has to be done to Star Wars, and turbolasers are equally underwhelming. Likewise, turbolasers are not strictly lasers, and kinetic barrier technology would still trigger as a laser bolt is still a fast moving object. Besides, with battle VIs, some ships would be able to shut down a star destroyer electronically. I imagine EDI could shut down a whole fleet if she wanted to.
Eck, I would love to see an analysis of the Dominion from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Notably their ships, and overall structure of their military forces. Just an idea, love your videos man, keep it up!
Shepard, Garrus, Wrex and Kasumi would have this won in an hour. Kasumi splits off and hacks systems, locking doors and elevators to direct reinforcements away from them, while the resr of the squad launched an assault. They rejoin and reach the power core, plant a big ass bomb, Joker flies a shuttle in to pick them up. In and out in 30 minutes.
John D. A tie doesn’t have much power output. If Star Wars weaponry really had that much power, then I wouldn’t need to shoot multiple targets in battlefront whilst using it. Instead, I could just shoot the ground and eliminate 10 other players instantly.
@@Acepilot25 Indeed. The point defense lasers the Alliance have would make for an absolute TIE slaughter. If it were Rebel fighters, they'd give the Alliance more trouble, but TIEs have no shields. Because they're mass produced crap.
I just want to thank you for how "zen" your videos are. I've been pretty anxious and stressed today, and just that opening with "Resonance" followed by your general voice/tone/vibe of your video is relaxing. It's helped reset me, alongside being interesting content that's fun to watch. Just thanks, Eck. Thanks.
UNSC won by outgunning the enemy, if he used a fleet of equal size of the pre Human-Covenant War ships I think that ME would have won since by the time the UNSC didn't have shielding tecnology
I heavily disagree with you. Mass drivers would play a huge role in this. Imperial shields would be completely useless against them. And they would have extreme range on the imperials. The imperials would form a battle line and move to engage the incoming fleet. What they wouldn’t be able to see are the hundreds of fighter sized slugs careening towards their fleets at hypersonic speeds. The mass driver rounds would pierce all imperial ships. Probably piercing multiple ships, depending on how clustered the imperials are. Now I don’t think it would be a total alliance victory. The imperials could simply jump to the other side of the Endor system, then jump back in the midst of or behind the alliance fleet. Which would cause he devastation you talked about. But it definitely wouldn’t be an almost one sided Pyrrhic victory.
Valkyrie variable fighter squadron( SDF Macross) vs Viking mech squadron( Starcraft). Imperial Reaver class Titan ( Warhammer 40K) vs the LED Mirage Mortar Headd( Five Star Stories).
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 the second one is a 15 meter at the shoulder 155 ton walking knight based mech with 2 superhuman pilots vs an imperial titan which has a ton of weapons.
I think you are under estimating the tactical brilliance of admiral hacket and and Admiral Anderson their combined tactical intelligence could possibly even rival thrawn or at least give him a decent challenge , not to mention a little bit of a plot hole that thane was bedridden by mass effect 3 being deathly ill from kepral’s syndrome but there is a possibility ( very slim but possible ) that this all takes place betweem the end of mass effect 2 ( post suicide mission everyone lives ) and the beginning of mass effect 3 not to mention that tali went back to the migrant fleet after the suicide mission but later during the reaper war she rejoins the crew
I agree with you completely Eck, your assessment of the two fleets themselves is spot on, Shepard and company being integral to shutting down the shield generator is exactly how I imagined it, and the Very costly of their win can't be denied. There is one detail I'd like to bring up that gave me a bit of a question of capabilities in this fight and that's the ability of the Star Wars Ray shielding to deflect or resist the mass driver rounds. Given their ability to shrug off stationary or slow moving asteroids of varying size, and admittedly ignoring the Legends collision of one SSD into another (can't remember which specifically but you know what I mean) because of the fact that that is about the craziest instance I can think of where any type of Star Wars shield resisted anything, it just seems too bonkers to act as a proper gauge of All the Ray Shields power (I know you didn't do that but it could be used as evidence) and only ever happened that one time. I believe that a projectile only 20 kilograms in weight and able to fit in your palm being shot at 3,897,302 meters per second should be able to punch straight through without much resistance, although not Every round would survive the impact, which I think you took into account with that opening salvo, and they wouldn't be doing a great deal of damage given their size. However with how stupidly predominant both the bridge and reactor are on ISDs I do think that the Systems Alliance would be able to pick out such obvious weaknesses and take them out, simply allowing them to finish off more of Death Squadron, not nessecarily win the battle. Executor certainly would present the greatest challenge, and likely resist the vast majority of ordnance thrown at it, but as we saw in Return of the Jedi it only takes a single strike destroying the bridge to bring down the entire ship. Unless the Systems Alliance is better able to maintain distance (something I think they may already know is a necessity based on your statement that the events prior to this engagement has played out the same) I really don't see their odds improving much more than a solid 6/10, but with their far greater speed in sublight and FTL I think they might be able to do so. I really enjoyed this episode, maybe more than your other fleet match-ups thus far, and can appreciate taking plot details like Shepard being present and his leadership skills, Sidious and Vader being away because of the potential threat and lack of reasoning to be present, it all makes sense. That's not to say I dislike such things being left out of other comparisons you have done, I think it just fits the situation better here and doesn't so much in others like the UNSC Home Fleet vs the Rebel Fleet at Endor where it is more of a direct battle and the characters involved would only effect the events in a minor capacity. Great job as always, looking forward to whatever comes out next I watch literally Every single one of your videos regardless of topic, and hope you are doing well!
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 depends on the quantity front though geth go have millions of themselves in a non-physical state (sort of just being stored) and will produce the amount of physical units required based on the situation.
I think the Geth is far superior to the CIS. Geth seem to be more highly networked, coordinated, armed, and accurate. Yes while the CIS is a massive industrial power that can endlessly pump out battledroids faster than the Geth can produce them I think the superior tactics of the Geth could allow them to target cumbersome CIS factories and eliminate CIS output. Consequently the CIS could leverage its massive fleets to prevent the Geth from landing planet side anyways and could just as equally leverage these same fleets to overwhelm smaller Geth fleets and squash their factories as well. Who knows.
@@KeithMetoyer this maybe so but you also forget the geth are insanely adaptable to their situation and foes, also condisering the information gained from legion in ME 2 and 3 we find that the geth had reaper tech as well as their own. yes the CIS has the sear force but the geth could just hack their systems and use the droids for their own ends, considering geth can literally hack anything from info gained in all ME games.
What if scenario star wars What if CIS droids are replaced by the machines of terminator with star wars tech the terminator units are basically the same but upgraded with star wars tech to make it fair
The word isn't upgraded its downgraded. A T101 is far superior to any battledroid, nevermind a T1000. Consider a T101 can fire a minigun, accurately and hit only what it aims at, without the gun needing optics or been integral to its design. That's a minigun, a high recoil low accuracy weapon, now give the same T101 a DMR or sniper rifle, it's going target shooting at several 100m (over 1000 with the SR) from a standing position, at rapid speeds. Basically a T101 with a DMR at 600m would pick off an entire clock e battalion before they got in range. Yes I know if they were that good humanity would never have won the war, but plot armour helps. And we saw they were that good when the T101 fired a minigun at the police in T2.
@@cgi2002 *Jedi:* I'll just use my lightsaber to block the shots from this Droid while you…gaaa 100 rounds tear through the Jedi master. Mace Windu is nailed next, Yoda takes a while longer cause he hops around like a rabbit on meth, but the first time he reflexively stands his ground and parry's incoming rounds he's shredded.
I'd think that the DS2 would fire it's laser as soon as it's ready, picking off the larger ships one by one, especially those that are holding back. The Dreadnoughts snd Cruisers would be the first to go. That said, I do think that the smaller craft(Frigates and Fighters) are going to be very difficult if not impossible to hit by the DS or the larger capital ships. I don't think the larger Alliance Ships are going to stay in the fight for very long.
there is a problem with this in the fact that the Alliances as a lot of large ships about the side of Dreadnoughts and that is the Supercarriers which they have in under at least 200 in total but could be lower. It's how they got around the Fenix treaty part and thus they use those to shield the other ships or just keep doing as is. However FTL travel is superior in this situation than that of Hyperspace for they can do shortburst jumps without a cooldown period/calculations of magnitudes .
I like Mass Effect but Shepard and the ground team are done for. Their kinetic barriers won't stop blasters and their hardsuits were designed with the grain sized pellets of mass effect arms in mind so they're no help. Thane and Tali who both rely more on shields than armor will be dead the first time they get hit.
The only chance they have is to choose Kasumi and Garrus/Thane running pure stealth. By which I mean get in, plant explosives, get the hell out. No being seen. No fire fights. Use Spawn and Wrex and whatever other Krogan you can get as a distraction if necessary, it's not like they're necessary to winning the Reaper War. All you need is the Quarians, Geth and Turians.
I want the next vs ro be warhammer 40k imperial navy battlegroup solar (including phalanx pre 13th black crusade) vs the entirety of the galactic imperial navy (including a death star)
One Problem with the Normandy Strategy. The Death Star itself has Turbolasers, and as we know, Visual Scanning is a large part of Star Wars. All you'd need is one Tie Pilot to clock the Normandy and Transmit a warning to the Death Star and then All those Turbo's go live and tear the Normandy apart when it slows to release the Trident, Especially if she sits over the Entry port to try and deny access. I seriously doubt Cortez would even get to the Reactor, especially if he's being pursued by Interceptors instead of regular TIE's.
Would the Empires ships even have activated their shields at the beginning? Whilst on guard duty with no enemy in sighted wouldn’t it be a waste of energy to have them running all the time? Therefore wouldn’t that first salvo be somewhat more damaging?
I don't think having the shield active would be too energy consuming, especially considering they don't have to power the engine or the weapon at the begining, the shield might be less efficient at the start thought. Especially the deflector as they wouldn't expect long range physical weapon.
It was a trap, so the Empire would have. That said, it would be a bad trap because the System Alliance could just turn to any direction and immediately leave, because the SA doesn't need hyperlanes to FTL safely.
@@bubbasbigblast8563 but at the same time, the SA fleet will HAVE to either crush the empire fleet or engage it from time to time even with the hight loss it imply, otherwise the imperial squadron would just turtule around the death star to protect it and wait for reinforcement while the deathstar take some shots at the SA fleet. A situation that would cost the normandy its access to the death star. So the SA fleet would be forced to let the imperial fleet catch some of its ship to keep them on the chase.
Even if the empire's combat shields were down. They would still have their navigation shields up in case of meteorites. Which is essentially what the SA would be throwing at them. So all it would do is alert the empire but it was a trap so the empire would be expecting the SA.
About the System Alliance naval numbers. They had 200 in the first Contact war like you said but they built that fleet in 9 years. Afterwards they got in contact with the rest of the galaxy. That should have increased their ship building program because of a stronger economy from access to more trade partners, a greater realization of the threats they faced in the galaxy, and access to better ship building technology. So lets say that the rate at which they produced ships increased to 1.5. They build around 300 ships every decade (remember they built 2/3rds that number in a similar time frame before contact with the rest of the galaxy). They should have around 1100 ships by the time of the reaper invasion. Even if you want to say that the rate they built their ships stayed the same they should still have made roughly 200 ships every decade leading to a fleet size of 800. Saying that they could only produce half the amount of ships in three times the amount of time is just silly.
Three bones to pick here: 1) The Alliance Navy was was definitely way larger than that, the 200 ship figure was from 9 years after the discovered the Prothean Ruins (9 years to build the navy from scratch including inventing the technology going into building the ships and their weapons and manufacturing processes to work with eezo, establishing the shipyards, off Earth mining operations for eezo and other material resources needed, creating a military command structure, and everything else in 9 years and having 200 ships by that point), the Reaper War starts 29 years later. During that period they had a fast and sustained military, economic and territorial expansion and were an acknowledged great power in the galaxy. So the lowest ball park figure you're looking at is a few thousand ships, not counting fighters and troop transports, not a few hundred ships. 2) Ranges, sure you brought it up but I don't see a reason to think that the Empire could close the range in combat. Their ships might be reasonably fast in the context of Star Wars, but ME ships are expected to dodge most of the shots aimed at them, they'd definitely have the acceleration to keep the range open and keep up a barrage and since range in ME its determined by how fast the target can dodge (and an ISD or Executor basically has no ability to dodge) the range would be even longer. I don't see how Death Squadron could effectively engage the SA fleet; the SA fleet may not be able to pierce Star Wars shields, but Death Squadron probably shouldn't even be able to land a shot beyond the occasional lucky hit (extreme turbolaser range in Star Wars is knife fighting range for Mass Effect ship based weapons). 3) After the Death Star is Destroyed why would the Systems Alliance bother engaging Death Squadron? Their primary objective is complete and they can pull out while they're ahead, sure it isn't a complete victory, but so what, most of the Imperial forces are destroyed and they'll have suffered minimal casualties and they can't penetrate ISD shields, so going to FTL and cracking open a few beers seems like the option to go with in that situation.
@Oisín O'Donnell The Empire. It is bigger, not far behind in technology, more competent leaders and more resources. Also it has a much more stable goverment.
Just as a note for trying to estimate ship numbers on the alliance side. In the Mass effect game there's a codex that points out when humanity first discovered the Prothean technology on Mars which ushered in a technological surge forward pushing humanities space fairing technology forward hundreds of years. Before that point humanity was barely making it to Jupiter. So if you were to take the codex ( the resulting year the Prothean technology discovered) and the codex for the first contact war. Find the difference in the time and distribute 200 ships over those years, you would probably find the production rate for humanity. At which point take that rate ( the rate may have been slightly higher after that time due to time gaining more proficiency with the technology) multiply it by 30 add it to the 200 ships, and allocate the ship type by the distribution previously held by the existing fleet.
#askeck Halo theory idea What if the UNSC had never researched the spartan 2 or mjolnir programs. However one month after first contact with the covenant the UNSC INFINITY and her escort fleet of Autumn class cruisers appear at earth through a wormhole. The ships are fully operational and have manuals detailing how all ship systems, such as shielding and more advanced slipsace, operate and also how to build them for other ships. How does this affect the human covenant war? Does humanity win or lose?
Lose as since it is the start of the war the covenant was at its strongest and would be able to counter the single ship that could hurt them, Spartans where so important in the war do to the covenant not being able to adapt to them. Hard to train a solider to fight something that’s kills everyone you send to observe it, much easier to create something to counter a ship which you can simply scan
I feel like the presence of the Infinity makes this scenario a no-brainer human win. As this is soon after First Contact, humanity would still have the means to produce (or at least, reverse engineer/retrofit) future-grade armaments. Even if there’s initial distrust toward the strange fleet, UNSC historical & security information could easily convince the early-UNSC that these guys are friendly. Combine that with Infinity & her fleet preempting the first stages of Covenant attacks, and they’ll easily gain the trust of their predecessors. Even without the Spartan-2 Program, Infinity’s data could easily jump humanity straight toward the S4 levels of mass-augmentations. Combine that with humanity’s (then-still-unknown) ground superiority against the Covenant, and UNSC ground forces could more handily hold off Covenant forces, while Infinity dominates the space war (or trains other ships in proper anti-Covenant fleet tactics).
UGNAvalon the infinity would be a complete different ship as it was built with Spartans and spartan tech in mind making it inferior to the infinity that we know today.
Interesting, but you have to remember that at the start of the war the covenant had access to two CSO class supercarriers. I think that even one of them could beat the Infinity head to head, especially when you account for the overwhelming numerical advantage the covenant had over humanity regarding ship warfare. Without Spartans, its also arguable that the schism would never happen, as the Elites would probably dominate all ground combat no questions asked. If it were me, I’d organize a fleet with one CSO, 10 CSA carriers, 20 cruisers equipped with energy lances, and hundreds of cruisers, destroyers, and corvettes to act as a screen to block flanking maneuvers. It’d be simple to eliminate one ship when you have thousands at your disposal
Can I just say.... I love that you start your videos right away.... No loooooong headline explaining (which means you dont treat us like idiots, you know we can read) Thanks #EckhartsLadder
A ground battle between a squad of Alliance marines (or even better N7 squad) and stormtroopers would be slaughter due to superior range of Alliance forces and their use of projectile weapons even if vastly outnumbered. Also all the Alliance fleet needs to do is make the use of their FTL drives to stay out of the range of Imperial ships (the FTL drives shouldn't be affected by Interdyctors).
I think EDI would be more of a deciding factor in the battle. Think about it she was able to trick reapers into thinking the Normandy was another reaper. I think that EDI would be able to infect some of the imperial fleet with a computer virus that would cause the destruction of systems on the ship. Like overloading the shield generator.
yeah, she'll infect the Imperial computers with 7 zettabytes of explicit content :) as a joke lmao. Though I say Mass Effect AI is more sophisticated than Star Wars AI and computers, meaning EDI can obviously easily hack into Imperial Computer systems and maybe with the help of the rest of the Normandy crew as well.
#AskEck So I’m more than a little confused here. Why is it that you believe the shields of the System’s Alliance would be completely ineffective? As far as I understand it, turbolasers, and really all lasers in the Star Wars universe, use Tibana gas heated up to a plasma and launched out. This makes it a bolt of plasma, not actually a laser beam. We can see this in any of the original movies, where blasters clearly exert force on the targets they hit (usually stormtroopers.) So, if we agree that it is a plasma projectile, then the System’s Alliance shields would, theoretically, not be bypassed. Since the Mass Effect universe shields rely on increasing the density of the surrounding gas/outer layer of hull, it would have a noticeable effect on the damage a projectile, like turbolaser fire, would do. Aaaand, if Shepard exists in this universe, and the Normany is tricked out, then Tali can share those fancy oscillating shield systems with the rest of the Alliance, who would likely be able to get ahold of the needed emitters for them. These new shields have proven very effective against both projectiles, and actual laser weapons like AFAIK the Collectors used. So, to wrap it up, saying they don’t work doesn’t make any god damn sense. Sincerely, Austin. Wait, fuck, it’s Hyper, ah never mind....
In the mass effect lore kinetic barriers are very weak to extreme temperatures such as plasma so turbo lasers being most likely plasma would easily penetrate.
remember they held off the turians until a peaceful solution was reached. edi's importance was downplayed in this scenario considering she's an unshackled ai and how much human control is needed in star wars. thane assuming he's not too sick i would have chosen garrus if this is me3 setting.
The First Contact War was between a scout flotilla and two alliance fleets. Alliance exploration vessels were activating Mass effect relays which was considered a no-no by the Turians. The Turian scout flotilla destroyed the alliance exploration group but didn't send a fleet. The alliance sent two fleets which then wiped out the Turian scout fleet. After this point the council got involved and ended the war. That was the extent of the space battles against the Turians.
@@Litany_of_Fury Well, they're resistant to the Force. But the Reapers don't use that to influence minds. I see no reason why the Vong would not be susceptible to Reaper indoctrination.
Seems a little odd that the alliance gets Shepard but the Empire doesn’t get Vader but it doesn’t matter as you said. They just don’t have the proper tech and numbers to handle Death squadron, let alone if the DSII starts firing.
Mission objective achieved. Congratulations, you just lost the war, because the Emperor is now annoyed with the Systems Alliance and a full fleet is enroute to deal with the problem.
What if Shepard and Thrown switched places? Could Shepard unite the SW galaxy to defend them from the Yuuzhong Vong? How would Thrawn unite the Milky Way to beat the Reapers? Seems close since both have to save the galaxy from a massive extragalactic threat.
If Shepard could get a drop ship on board the death star and he had a Krogan (Grunt or Wrex) it’d be a real hard job for any stormtrooper to stop them since the Krogan’s “don’t need luck, they have ammo”
@@dianabarnett6886 I like Ashley and Kaiden and also a lot of Mass Effect fans are rather stupid forgiving Ashley a lot of s*** she isn't xenophobic toward aliens she simply doesn't trust them asides from the ones on the Normandy who she works with the entire time they are an exception to the rule and also she was completely right about the council abandoning Humanity and again a lot of Mass Effect fans completely misinterpreted her bear and dog metaphor
Can the UNSC and the Covenant survive and beat the Angel Zeruel from Evangelion on Earth when the Covenant first attacked? Zeruel appears out of nowhere in this and is laying waste to everything and everyone that it sees and gets in it's way while trying to look for Lilith on this version of Earth to start the next Impact
I think your over estimating the effectiveness of the shielding the empires ships would have, Mass Drivers are the closest thing we could compare to the mass effect weaponry. After the second or perhaps third barrage the smaller ships would start taking crippling hits. I would also think that, due to the power differences of the fleets, The alliance would likly attempt boarding actions to cripple or destroy the ISDs from within. With biotics, the Alliance would have a much easier time successfully sabotaging the ISDs then the rebels would have. Overall I think this fight is much closer then you allude too, if the alliance plays into its strengths, they could easily defeat the small imperial fleet. Love the videos and I'd love to see more Starwars VS Mass Effect videos
that is a pretty good summery of the mass effect series "no chance in a head to head" "will only work if things go exactly their way" and "the main fighting force is just trying to buy time" you have just described the entirety of mass effect 3 XD
#AskEck Hey, I’m building models of starships and space stations all to scale with one another, and I’m currently considering making models from Star Trek, Wars, Gate, BSG, B5, Halo, & Mass Effect. Since I cannot make any of my ships longer that 2 1/2 feet, what are the best choices to made models of? Any response is appreciated, keep up the good work.
I like how you factored the skillsets and capabilities of individuals like Shephard or Thane into the final verdict. I didn't think it would be feasible to keep the character drama from M.E. relevant in a straightforward, hypothetical battle, but you somehow pulled it off.
think Kasumi would be good too for she is the best in the ME galaxy of getting into things and stealing etc. She also knows how to hack but would say Legion is better for he can get hurt and keep moving. if Tali does she runs the risk at dying to an infection and this battle is too important for rooms of error in worrying. Not that she can't fight through it no, but you need the ones that will not slow you down, can be quick and deadly for this mission to work with what Shepard brings.
It was a very interesting way to execute this fight! I think the numbers were a bit underrated tho. And maybe the range of the ME ships, and their vastly superior maneuvers compared to the pretty slow turbolasers, effective range from sw will be so low that I think they will lose the space engagement.
I like it; however, I disagree with the ground team, you said that you would be basing it on the forces of ME; so by using that logic, Sheppard would pick Garus instead of Thane because Thane dies long before the final battle with the Reapers.
It was mentioned somewere that right before mass effect 3 humans had been making a battlecruiser class in large numbers to go around the no more dreadnaught rule(I think it might be a non-canon thing though), there battle cruisers had better armor, shields and stronger guns then regular cruiser and could fight dreadnaught with better odds, they were made to fight turian dreadnaught with 2 battlecruiser to 1 dreadnaught fight and have a 50/50 chance, they also fielded about twice as many fleet carriers as they did dreadnaughts, which is why we see so many human fighters at the battle for earth, the citadel didnt use fighter craft before the first contact war, and human also introduced destroyers to mass effect which no one else had till then. Oh and by ME3 there are multiple normandy class frigates in the Alliance fleet (armed with thanox cannons) with can do a hefty bit of damage.
@@Litany_of_Fury They cannot fight from the other side of the solar sytem. Against the Death Star, sure, it's not moving. But the farther away you are, the longer it takes to hit an opponent with your weaponry. Even relativistic speed weaponry (ME shots travel between 25-40% the speed of light) is obviously limited by the speed of light. So if you're 1 Astronomical Unit away (Distance from Earth to Sun), a projectile moving AT the speed of light would take a little over eight minutes to reach the target. Slow as a Star Destroyer is, it can out maneuver a barrage that takes well over eight minutes to reach it. If they're closer, less time to dodge but the range advantage is negated.
Then again, the Death Star was orbiting Endor, so by the time the rounds got there the Death Star would've moved well out of the way (assuming they're an AU or half the solar system away as you say).
@@1nt3rD1ct0r we are talking about mass effect weaponry through. Very small warheads traveling very fast. Star Wars has relatively limited tracking technology and the death star II is a static object.
By the way, a little critique on your description of Mass Effect's stealth systems, it's not enough to hide them from radar/ladar. The stealth systems are heat sinks that capture the vessel's emissions so that it doesn't leave an infrared signature. The reason for this is because active sensors with radar and laser-based ladar have narrow fields of view and space is so big. IR sensors are more passive - merely detecting objects that have radiated heat. I don't think it's necessarily laid out as concisely in the canon, but the Normandy can still be detected if the enemy uses its active sensors and catches a reflection from the ship's hull. It just would be unlikely because they'd only be using active sensors to accurately identify and acquire a firing solution.
I think you are wrong. The capital ship weapons of the Earth Alliance of Mass Effect are very similar to the capital ship weapons of humans in Halo. In a previous video I think I recall you gave the Halo universe a slight edge against the Deathstar. Even though power generation for protection in Star Wars is much higher, you are underestimating the force of what would be thousands of projectiles accelerated to near the speed of light impacting every minute.
Halo MAC rounds are far stronger and powerful than Mass Effect rounds could do despite being slower, and that was against the Death Star 1 which meant it wasn't shielded by anything, but it is something the System Alliance fleet could also do. Against the Death Star 2 however it is very much different for both matches as a Star Wars Planetary shield could withstand orbital bombardments.
Yeah but Mass effect guns are to small... unfortunately. The UNSC were like floating tanks in space that shot bigger rounds, although they could only Shoot like once every five minutes I think. The alliance would probably just need to keep enough distance between them and there target. Which would be easy for them since it’s there Whole military Doctrine
@@ancientarchives9722 Mass Effect guns are relatively small but the velocities are much higher and the rate of fire is much faster. Halo Nation puts ship borne MAC kinetic energy at equivalent to 56 kilotons of TNT. I've been doing some reading and the main gun of the Everest class dreadnaught fires a 20kg slug at 4025 km/s with a kinetic energy of around 38 kilotons of TNT. The difference is that the Everest can fire its main gun 12 times a minute and I think Eck said that they would have 9 Everest class dreadnaughts plus hundreds of smaller ships firing from their main weapons which are also quite powerful.
I'd love to see more Mass Effect content from you, Eck More "what if" scenarios would be interesting, too As in "what if the Citadel took Shepard's advice seriously from early on and the massed fleets of the Milky Way were already mobilized and battle-ready to engaje the Reapers as they entered the Galaxy"
Honestly I think you pretty vastly under estimated how powerful relativistic speed slugs are. Ignoring their effects on the deflector shields the SA's range advantage could easily let them orbitally bombard the shield generator with out being anywhere near the Imperial Fleet. Plus it means they could probably pretty easily kite the star destroyers out of position making the Death Star even more vulnerable. Looking forward to more videos 😀
@@derrickmeade4891 I mean a few seconds seems a bit of an exaggeration but The Executor certainly would certainly have a huge impact if it got in range. That is a pretty big if though and I think you are underestimating the power of a relativistic slug and just how fast and how far the Systems Alliance can shoot. The Rebels proved that raw power doesn't count for much, I'm pretty sure the systems alliances would wipe the floor with the Death Star 2's defenses.
@@evilgenius919 mass drivers exist in star wars. Mass drivers are considered outdated and inneffective in star wars. If we're going to just ignore the way mass drivers are treated in universe we might as well just ignore everything in the lore and assume star destroyers have no shields, are made of paper mache, and fight with water guns. Otherwise we have to actually listen to the lore, and in lore mass drivers were replaced with turbolasers because turbolasers were far more powerful. Ergo it is fair to assume that the mass effect ships firepower is outclassed by the star wars ships.
During the first Contact war, the Systems Alliance had 200 ships divided into 2 fleets. Considering that the Alliance only has 3 Everest-class Dreadnoughts, which were most likely from that era, I'd guess that each Dreadnought lead a compliment of about 100 ships. Humanity had 9 Dreadnoughts by ME3. With 100 ships per Dreadnought, that would be 900 ships. As for exact composition. It is stated that each Cruiser lead a Flotilla of 4 to 6 Frigates. So using a ratio of 1 Cruiser for every 5 Frigates, this is the size of the Alliance Fleet I came up with. - 3 Everest-class Dreadnoughts (888m) - 6 Kilimanjaro-class Dreadnoughts (1km) - 144 Cruisers (700m) - 720 Frigates(150m) - At least 9 Carriers(1km)
If they knew about the shield why would they make a full out assault on the imperial fleet? Also the reasons that the "numbers" are so high in legends is because nobody knew shit about science writing those books. Those "turbo lasers" would destroy worlds more effectively than the deathstar if those 'numbers are to be beloved.
@Gabriel Herman "They attacked the Death Star because 1: They thought it was un-operational at the time" yeah, so the rebels thought they would have a fair chance of defeating the Imperial fleet, but in Eckharts reasoning the Systems Alliance does not, so they shouldn't care whether the death star is operational or not, they simply has no reason to engage in fleet combat, at least at a range where the imperial fleet can shoot back. Theorethically ME ships should have a huge tactical advantage on a battlefield due to their short range FTL and range advantage, the Imperial ships have better defense and damage output by a lot, but can't ever land a hit on an ME ship unless the ME fleet lets them. On a small seperate battlefield like this the ME fleet should eventually win but take a long time. Star Wars tech is weird, it has extreme shields and weaponry but huge glaring weaknesses that can be exploited in other areas. Tactically Star Wars space warfare never made much sense so it's difficult to not take advantage of dumb mechanics if pitting it against other universes. The only valid tactic for the imperial fleet would be to just hyperjump out of there and go obliterate earth with half an hours bombardment. Let the systems alliance destroy the death star while you destroy their home planet with your superior heavy weaponry
@@freedomfighter22222 he said the events leading up were the same as in star wars, ergo the systems alliance thinks the same thing the rebels did. Secondly, you say that the systems alliance has this massive range advantage, but I've seen teh final battle of mass effect 3 and they are not fighting at ranges of light minutes. They are quite clearly within or nearly within visual range of the reapers when they open fire. Also you can see the projectiles individually so they are not instant.
@@lenkagamine4145 What does the system alliance thinking the same thing as the rebels about the empires position have to do with how they would plan to engage with their own tactical advantages? They have a massive range advantage but they shoot projectiles that have travel time, both them and the reapers have fast moving ships that could dodge the projectiles from a long distance so the Mass Effect species all prefer close quarter combat to make sure they hit, Earth is right behind the reaper forces and every shot that misses a reaper nukes a city on Earth(search for "Mass Effect 2: Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space " to see a video that explains their mentality) The mass effect universe uses projectiles we could build with todays tech, they just shoot a big rocket with a nuke on it, when shot they do not stop until they hit something so the range you can fire from depends on the speed of the target you want to hit, they technically have unlimited range
@@freedomfighter22222 If you look at official range numbers for either mass effect or star wars, they are both absuedly high. And if you look at actual engagements in either setting you can clearly see that nobody is actually fighting at those ranges. If you can find me a video clip of mass effect ships engaging eachother from 200,000 kilometers away where there is no sign of their opponents at all, then I'll believe it. But if it just throws high numbers around, well star wars does that too with some sources claimiing ranges measured in light-minutes for turbolasers. Personally I think what is visibly seen takes precedence over dialogue or codex entries, and what we see is mass effect ships engaging practically at point blank almost always. If they werent willing to engage the Reapers at a super long range theres no reason to think they'll change their mind fighting the Empire. anyways the first post was responding to "yeah, so the rebels thought they would have a fair chance of defeating the Imperial fleet, but in Eckharts reasoning the Systems Alliance does not", where I was saaying more or less, they think the same thing the rebels did so they do think they have a chance of defeating the imperial fleet, just like the rebels thought.
Or infiltrate the deathstar with Normandy piggybacking on some Imperial vessel, or stealing an imperial vessel and going in with full squad. Like in ME2. That way they can overpower the Deathstar squadron, take command of this fully operational battlestation and destroy fleet themselves. It's not like they didn't do crazy missions like this before. And for systems Alliance the best option would be to concentrate long-range fire on one ship at the time. 300 ships vs one might be enough to destroy their shield generators, that seem being not protected by the shields themselves (if this is the case than ISD's are done), if they are protected, still 300 ships vs. 1 should do the trick. And only Imperial fighters with Shields would stand chance against GARDIAN system, normal TIE's would be one-shoted. Ahhh. Much better now ;)
Turbolasers wouldn't bypass kinetic shielding, though it would have limited effectiveness - the shielding would stop the turbolaser bolt, which is tibanna gas ignited by a laser to form plasma. Since it's plasma, it would probably be more effective than normal projectiles, but it is nevertheless matter (if highly-energized matter), and thus subject to the kinetic shielding. The death star Superlaser would bypass the kinetic shielding (not that it matters - it could punch through it anyway). Alliance disruptor torpedoes would likely disable Imperial particle shielding, allowing the Systems Alliance to destroy some ISDs. I still agree with the overall assessment, but I think you're selling the alliance a bit short.
I wouldn’t count on shields mattering against Systems Alliance Dreadnoughts. We’ve already seen multiple times how energy shielding in Starwars doesn’t work on solid objects. That being said, a shot from a dreadnought could more or less tear through Star Destroyers quite easily, and far beyond the effective range of Turbo lasers.
I think you did great with the fleet battle being your only failing. You mention the alliance knows the capabilities of the enemy they are attacking. They would know that they couldn't get in a slugging match and win, but with the mass effect tech they have the edge in speed and can out run the imps in normal space. I'd see them doing as you said and draw the imps away with a long range bombardment and even letting the imps get within their own firing range, but then move off fast and start again. Hit and run tactics would be used to keep the imp fleet busy while the Normandy does its thing. This gives the alliance fleet a better survival chance and keeps the imps busy trying to nail down that pesky fleet to destroy them.
I still think you give starwars far too much credit to their physical shields. For example, in episode five when an ISD gets blown to pieces by a single meteor. Edit: to commenters, yes it is true that the asteroid was just one of many that had impacted the shields of the star destroyer. However the fact that a single strike from a relatively slow asteroid that is roughly 100 cubic meters big Is enough to destroy the entire bridge brings question as to their actual capabilities. Remember that most asteroids are primarily loose globs of dust and rock. Of course we are discussing something absurd as is. If you did fly through an asteroid field you wouldn't even notice. I'm just sick of hearing that these starwars shields are so superior that no ballistic weapons but the absolute strongest are relevant.
one meteor that was SEEN in the film. they had been searching the asteroid belt for hours looking for the Falcon before the one's shields gave out from repeat bombardment of large meteors, the one that took it out looking almost as big as the command deck itself. That's not even taking into account the countless micrometeors they also tanked while combing the field
It's the same thing they did in the BSG matchup. I thought it was nonsense then too. Actually, the canon is pretty clear the PHYSICAL shields of Star Wars ships are weak, at best. A single asteroid gets through. Torpedoes *routinely* bypass shields. 20kg Ferrous slugs shot at near light speed are going to punch through Imperial shields. Easily. The Thannix cannon would tear a Star Destroyer in two. Both sides' defenses would be incapable of adapting to the other. Because both of their defenses are based on stopping weapons in THEIR universe. And that factor is never taken seriously enough. So it comes down to "Star Wars be so advanced." Even though it hasn't advanced in 50,000 years....
It wasn’t a single asteroid. The ISDs were in asteroid field where they were getting pounded by thousands of those things. Even ME ship point defenses would have a hard time shooting them all down.
Exactly! ME drednaughts weapons can carve massive canyons in planets. Come on eck. The smallest drednaughts (800 m) fire a 20 kilo slug at 4025 km/s or 1.3%the speed of light. That's about 38 kiloton impact. Every 2 seconds. Per ship. Now add in roughly 200 cruisers who's shots do about 19 kilotons every 2 seconds... To sum up. The Death fleet can easily shrug off 4200 kilotons of force every 2 seconds? And thats only human ships and only main batteries. And assumes they dont concentrate fire. OoooKayyy... This should much closer in my opinion. Death Fleet would still win in the long run but it wouldn't be the land slide you make it out to be.
One the death star is destroyed, the alliance could just try to exit the battle and save some of their fleet. Once the death star is blown up you'll have a short window of confusion to act and escape, but they could do it.
The thing with me is that it is much more grounded then many other settings and performes like 40k but flipped on its head. I love me for its grounded feats, but it does not bring the "big guns"
Yeah same thing i like ma a lot, but i cant stand the ship design and armament. They are so fucking underarmed its not even funny, they got 1 gun and point defence thats it. A fucking oni prowler, a 40k frigate or a fucking corvette has more weaponry than a god damn mass effect cruiser, even a dreadnaught.
Big thanks to Zoe for editing this video and helping with writing and the script!
It was a pleasure
#AskEck
*Attempt 557*
Can you do the Forerunners vs Warhammer 40k factions and time eras of the galaxy faction versus battles please?
You forgot disruptor torpedoes.
@@swimfeared I don't think we can reliably assume that torpedoes designed for kinetic shields would work on deflector shields, and vice versa.
I do find it funny that you include Sheppard and his team but remove Vader and Palatine. XD
Before even watching the video I would have to say "It depends how much plot armor each side has"
We just need Garrus to do some calibrations and the Empire would be wiped out.
Unless he got force choked from Vader from those Aspirations... Or ran into Palpatine whod probably cut down most all the Shepard Crew an maybe him too fairly quick.
@@robertagu5533 Unless he made enough calibrations to his suits defenses...
@@Aracnah pretty hard to make a calibration to stop some one from telepathically choking you though. Hes targeting their throat and windpipe area. Not the suit. An theres no guarantee ME shields can take plasma bolts, fibro blades and something as powerful an lethal as a full powered lightsaber. Which maybe may take a few stab attempts and glancing blows but some saber types are way more powerful and deadly then others. An even the Alliance's best shields probably cant take too much.
Robert Agu Biotics or the Force?
That Thanix cannon would destroy everything in star wars
10:52 When has the port being too small ever prevented the good Commander from getting it in?
Report to the ship as soon as possible ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Induction port *hic*
(o) |||
(o) |||
@@Boxfortress we’ll bang ok
@@shatteredmatrixincorporate8755 that’s a straw Tali
This is great! I'd like to see more Mass Effect subjects discussed in the future.
I think you are right that the fleet would be wiped out. You did not even mention how Executor alone could probably wipe out a fleet of 300 ships where the largest is barely bigger than a Victory, and have no defenses against her weapons.
I think you are wrong about the destruction of the DS2. There are too many guns on the surface, and not stealthed to eyes.....the surface of DS2 is absolutely covered with guns that are manned, the shuttle and probably Normandy itself would never get near the port at all.
And, a Kodiak is far, FAR slower than a Tie Interceptor and has about 100km to travel.
Never make it.
Also, ISD's are only slow when turning and trying to intercept. In ANH, the 2 chasing the Falcon are moving more than an entire ship length per second, putting their space straight line speed at over 5 million KPH.
Lastly, you did not even mention the DS2 firing its laser and taking out the Alliance Dreadnoughts quickly.
"I am worthless" grunt mass effect 2
I think the systems alliance has another advantage in their maneuverability that you may have overlooked.
In Star Wars, the method of FTL is hyperspace which generally causes ships to travel too fast and far away in a jump to be of tactical benefit in a battle. BUT, in Mass Effect, the systems Alliance uses mass effect fields to effectively decrease the mass of their vessels in order to perform short-range FTL jumps and their able to do so with little to no prep time or calculations and for as long or brief as they need to to move around a star system or even just around the area surrounding a planet. What this means is that Systems Alliance fleet can maintain their extreme range advantage theoretically indefinitely, by essentially firing repeatedly until a Star destroyer gets near it's own firing range, then the Systems Alliance vessels adjust their course and do a quick FTL jump to another position that's within their range, but far outside the Star Destroyers' range again. Rinse and repeat. They would really only be limited by the number of munitions they have, which considering the standard round of an alliance dreadnought is only 20 Kg fired every fives seconds probably means they have a f**k-ton of ammo. Speaking of which......
It's unclear the capabilities of the smaller class vessels in the alliance, but we at least know that a dreadnought can fire a 20 Kg kinetic projectile at 1.3% the speed of light every 5 seconds, unleash an impact yield of 38 kilotons. Assuming that all nine dreadnoughts coordinate and focus their main guns on a single Star Destroyer, they would be dropping 4.1 megatons of energy on a Star Destroyer every minute, and that doesn't even factor in secondary guns, ship-to-ship missiles, or, ya know, all the other alliance warships. Now I'm not sure what magical statistics they give the star destroyers in the lore, but they clearly do not match what we see in the movies. I will say that in Empire Strikes back, the naval officers seemed pretty concerned with pushing their ships into asteroid fields and had to actively destroy as many as they could to mitigate damage, which suggests that their particle shields are not nearly as effective as one might think. I know its just an RTS game, but Empire at War lends credit to that assumption. Also, the fact that when ships in SW fight each other, their weapons will deal enough damage to drain each other's shield at a pretty decent pace, yet once the shields drop, the weapons fire, while certainly destructive, doesn't seem to release a catastrophic amount of damage in individual shots. Given that, I think with a properly coordinated attack the Systems Alliance fleet could wear down a star destroyers shields in reasonable amount of time. And once that happens, (chuckles) oh boy... if what happened to the two ISDs in Rogue One is any indication, than the alliance should have no problem tenderizing the standard star destroyers in short order. Obviously the executor and larger vessels would be a bit more challenging, but even these are just using weapons that fire plasma projectiles that travel 1/1000th the speed of a ship's main railgun in Mass Effect and gradually dissipate after a few hundred to a few thousnad kilometers. As long as the Alliance maintains their range, which given they have a 10 or 12-1 number advantage and are able to spread out divide the imperial fleet, they should be fine.
QuantumAscension1 the smaller ships like Frigates and fighters where the ones to hunt down ships with no shields and finish them off. Plus in ME3 a lot of the smaller ships had thanix cannon installed on them
Blah blah blah, in the comments there are always the people who says: wAiT, yOu OvErLoOKeD tHiS, tHeY cOuLd WiN iF tHeY dId ThIs. I’m sure he played Mass Effect, and probably he did some researches about their universe. And he said that overlooked somethings to summarize. Cuz at this point Star Wars fans can say: “Oh wait, but on Endor was present the Inferno Squad, to protect the shield, and Shepherd and his sheep couldn’t have a chance and the Death Squad blah blah blah....” Shut up and go fuck yourselves , at least you destroyed the Death Star.
@@swagfox4612 such anger lmao.
@@kajadeborst8723 to be fair its hard to gather enough for a proper ship count. You see a massive fleet yes, but at a huge distance and only for a split second. I think this video was done fairly well.
Swag Fox I’m pretty sure he said if he overlooked something put it in the comments below. And why you so hostile this is a civil conversation... like damn
Vs matchup
Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
@TheWingland
How about Captain Rex vs Master Chief
Sgt forge vs captain fordo
Rex better armor weapons and he was trained since birth and if people who can tank tank shots thinks rex was an excellent soldier then I feel that this should not be to hard of a fight then again I’m sure sgt johnson could put up a fight so I take it back this fight is a draw
Sgt. Johnson in his "Prime." (Either Halo 3 or his insane Halo Wars 2 Recreation)
vs
Rex in his prime (Maybe Umbra or sometimes else)
Sergeant Johnson a spartan one and an ODST has over 40+ years of war experience lol.
Didn't the Systems Alliance Navy supplement their Dreadnought force with Supercarriers? I though that was something new that humans brought to the universe.
Yes. Before Humanity entered the galactic scene, the militaries of the Citadel races didn't have the concept of "carriers" as its own class of ship. The Systems Alliance used this as a loophole to get around the restrictions on dreadnoughts. Fits their doctrine better, anyway; they're more about maneuver warfare and combined arms.
Diana Barnett Well, technically the galaxy at large did use field carriers. Most large capital ships in the ME Universe did usually carry a hangar bay for fighter escorts. It was, as said, the humans who introduced the galaxy to dedicated carriers craft.
@@Fyrebrand18 thats true but because of a treaty that i currently cannot remember the name of the Alliance basically just made carriers with dreadnought grade armor and weaponry
@@katieshadowsong4665You’re thinking about the Treaty of Farixen..
Good choice not to include the Mako, it would have destroyed three AT-STs on accident just hopping around trying to aim at one AT-AT!
Given the Mako’s agility and ability to climb, jump and boost, given any sort of mountainous tarain, the mako I dare say would win with relative ease. Add the Hammerhead into the mix and well that little thing would just spend the entire time jumping between the backs of the AT-ATs
@@Papanza295 The steering is so overly sensitive it couldn´t hit a barndoor!
@@sim.frischh9781 or alternately that's all it'd be hitting
These crossover matches are quite fun and interesting hope to see more. But as always amazing video
As long as he doesn't do the empire against the total warhammer
@@wesleygaray2666 He's done Empire vs Imperium before.
I remember debating Systems Alliance numbers. I can't remember my logic from the past but it was considered a big deal that the Alliance fielded Spacecraft Carriers in a support role which was alien to the uhh... aliens. These vessels were the same size of Dreadnoughts but lacked primary firepower for smallcraft. This distinction of role which wasn't used by other races meant the Alliance could always punch a lot higher than their limited rate. They basically cheated law because Citadel bureaucracy and prejudiced towards Humans led to holes in the legal system.
I can't remember how many Carriers the Systems Alliance fielded but it did boost their big ship numbers.
I do recall this as well. The Alliance was the only Navy to use fighters in large numbers. Which, ironically, allowed them to stand up to Reaper fighters better. Didn't help against their capital ships. But the Turians got swatted aside by those too. As would the Imperials, for that matter.
Here's a real matchup video: Reapers vs Shadows.
@@shawngillogly6873 Also during the Reaper war the Alliance developed anti matter weaponry in the form of Javelin missiles which ripped apart all forms of matter including energy. This weaponry could work in a similar ways to Ion weaponry in star wars. If a weapon can damage reaper capital ships it could probably hurt a Star Destroyer.
@@shawngillogly6873 wait..did you say the galactic empire would be swept by the reapers?
Well, they did have powerful mind control habilities. All they have to do is drop their artifacts around.
@@Lorath333 ehn that's only if palpatine doesnt feel them our get a premonition and then its total destruction of the reapers
it is Shepard of course they can he would just go in alone
And romance vader and palps
@@wesleygaray2666 I'm not sure if I want to see this for the comedic value, or brain myself for the mental image conjured by the implications expressed.
I think that choosing Thane over Garrus at the point of ME3 is a mistake, at that time Thane's Kepral's Syndrome was too advanced for him to fight.
Honestly his choices on both fronts are lacking. Yes, it's a stealth mission and yes we're keeping with game mechanics instead of common sense but there are better options.
If you wanna go with silence and base and kill everyone you choose Garrus and Wrex. Have Garrus knockout the comms and bulldoze through everything on the ground. No way this isnt an intense fire fight and as much as I love Tali she's too squishy. Thane is too squishy. You can stealth all you want but you have to kill everything in that base to keep them from just restarting the shield generator.
The only true stealth option that you have is to plant explosives on their communications equipment and on the shield generator. And if you wanna go that route you pick Kasumi and Garrus. Kasumi was a freaking burglar and no slouch when it comes to tech. Garrus is a trained sniper, not sure how turian armed forces works but I'm sure snipers are still taught how to go about unseen and how to pick their targets carefully.
hahaha tell that to Kai Leng XD
On the ground, I give it to the Alliance all the way. N7 Squads will be the new nightmares for the Stormtroopers. Especially biotics.
In space, more a tough call. I'd say the Alliance has the advantage in combat range and speed with their frigates. The fighters and interceptors are no doubt more combat capable than even the TIE Interceptor but I can't say that with any degree of decent certainty. The Empire has more tonnage.
I'd say, depending on how the ground engagement goes will decide the fate of the space battle.
You are forgetting that, by ME3, the Alliance has made new Normandy-class ships which they can use to bring in more squads. N7 stealth and sabotage specialist unit. It wouldn't just be Shepard.
If the Alliance knows about the Imperial locations, they can divide their forces. Using the greater freedom provided by their ME FTL, they can position themselves beforehand to appear directly on top or the bottom of the Imperial fleet in a pincer move. Space is 3D, something Star Wars forgets all the time.
Mecha-san I think you’re seriously undervaluing the power of the empire and their armies and fleets
Much as I like your reasoning, a Star Destroyer would cut any ME ship like butter due to the simple fact they're packing primary armament lasers and hundreds of smaller batteries. It's specifically stated the reason lasers are the holy grail of ME weapons development is that they negate kinetic barriers.
Just by volume of fire and primary armament, the Empire wins in space. Though granted, on the ground is a bit more of a mixed bag thanks to the versatility of Alliance forces in comparison to Stormtroopers.
@@the13inquisitor59 Stormtroopers who fight plot armor heros or Stormtroopers who fight regular grunts? The Corp was known to be the best, let's not forget the various other varíants of troops, if you go by Disney/Lucasfilm logic, then a bunch of teddy bears could bring down the Empire... oh wait.
"due to the simple fact they're packing primary armament lasers and hundreds of smaller batteries. It's specifically stated the reason lasers are the holy grail of ME weapons development is that they negate kinetic barriers."
Well, @@the13inquisitor59 , they do NOT however pack lasers as their primary armament. As every SW fan will point out in a SW vs Star Trek debate, SW ships' "lasers" are NOT actually Lasers, but Plasma based blasters, essentially, that only are called lasers colloquially or out of tradition in universe. Given Incinerate
as a power uses plasma and can be blocked by shields, supposedly Turbolasers at least to a degree could be blocked as well. (Though I would agree that ME not having proper energy shields for their ships would put them on a massive disadvantage against the empire, don't get me wrong there - I do think that in space the empire would win).
That's actually from a mod, not canon.
the Covenant vs Citadel Council, all out war!
Obviously before the humans joined the Citadel. And before the Covenant declared war on humans.
Also disappointed you didn’t choose Garrus. I mean you can’t have Shepard and Tali in a with out Garrus.
Garrus and Tali are the best squad to have at your side through all three games.
Jacob Clark
There can’t be any other team.
Also Thane who?
Well in terms of size and weapons covenant ships are basically purple reapers, the numbers are also similar
The only advantage of the ME species is that the covies will have to sweep through the whole galaxy to find them, as they are spread entirely through it thanks to the relays, unless of course the covenant find out how to use them, wich may prove difficult for them as it's not Forerunner relics (maybe it is in their eyes? But in both cases possibly heresy), still there's a risk, same for just guessing the direction of their jumps
Also infiltration will not be a problem compared to the reapers, and the duration of the war should allow for reverse engineering, wich mean covies possibly using Ezoo (maybe even psychics?) and ME with shields other than kinetic, FTL drives and energy weaponry
On the ground i can't exactly say, but it seems ME ground kinetic weaponry is supposedly mostly superior to the UNSC, using rail/gauss action over more standard infantry guns (the games don't seem to really reflect on that impression of tearing through unshielded enemies like paper when it should), they for sure got the species variety on both sides, but the covies do have crushing numbers, despite what seems to be a shortcoming in terms of troop efficiency unless we're talking experienced jackals/elites in command
The result? Well unless the covenant declared a holy purge, they want to assimilate ME, it depends on how quickly they can subdue most of the members if the alliance before they catch up and make use of the flaws of a somewhat technologicaly stagnant (/monopoly on relics by the ruling specie) theocracy to turn the tide and force a truce/ hold their ground enought for a schism to fire due to a loss in momentum, if humanity left a mark on the Sanghehili, the Turian surely will leave quite a burn as well
@@scorpixel1866 there is the issue of the krogun though. If the genophage gets cured quickly to provide soliders for the war effort then the krogun could pose a big problem for the covenant. The only think the covenant have that reproduces that fast are the grunts and we all know how easily their heads pop. Hunters might be a good counter though.
Eck you do remember that the time distance between Humanity discovering the Charon Mass Relay and the First-Contact war was only about 10 years. In 30 with the size influence and power of the System Alliance all increasing exponentially so would it make sense for the size of their Navy or at least linearly. Plus lets also not forget the Alliance got around the Dreadnaught limit with Fighter Carriers. So the Alliance should have at least 600 if not more.
It was also stated in the books by the time of Mass effect 1 the alliance fleet would almost be on par with the citidel fleet
Another detail is in the marketing material. One of the live-action trailers featuring news segments prior to and during the Reaper invasion include a clip where a British news anchor and guest are discussing the "thousands" of ships that have gathered in Earth orbit (supposedly as preparation against an attack).
600 seems a bit unrealistic. For instance, though unbound by the treaty of Farixen and remaining relatively isolated from the galaxy ar large for over 300 years, the Geth, a race of sentient AI, only developed as many Dreadnoughts as the Turians. With that in mind, it seems odd for humanity to have been able to create 600 capital ships of Carrier or Dreadnought designation. At most, perhaps in the low hundred, but not more.
@@Fyrebrand18 ; I never said that the Alliance made 600 hundred Carriers and/or dreadnaughts. I said 600 plus ships including cruisers to corvettes. The Turians had only around 30 dreadnaughts at the most. Not to mention the Geth were contained to a small localized area of space. So they had a restricted amount a resources and were probably kept in check by the Turians.
Plus using a real life examples midway through WW2 the Allies or even just the US alone had a new ship ready for combat almost every week sometimes daily. A massive military build up is more probable than it may first appear.
Also the Geth were focus on rebuilding and internal improvement rather than expansion or conquest.
I'm a simple woman. I see Mass Effect, I click.
I appreciate you.
Ive been bamboozled
Ngl very similar
At first, I thought "no way, SA would get their asses kicked", but then the more I thought about it and remembered the lore, I think they actually could win quite easily, assuming their weapons could do enough damage to the Imperials.
Mass Effect naval combat is much more realistic according to the lore. They usually fight at large distances (like modern jet fighters do now), so in theory, they could probably take out all the TIEs well before they'd been reach them. The ISDs are the real question.
But of course, they also have Shepard (and his crew), so I mean, it's quite a bit weighted towards the SA. 🤣
Also, *you should totally do a Shepard vs Darth Vader video* 😁
shepard vs vador is hard to represent as it heavly depend of which shepard you are using^^
I think a weapon oriented shepard would be destroyed by vador, a biotic vs force match could be interesting, and a tech shepard might be able to break the survival system of vador armor's before the fight really begin.
You have to remember that this is the Systems Alliance entire fleet versus.the second death star and just 30 Star Destroyers
No they'd lose, Mass Effect ships don't posses shields but rather kinetic barriers which are useless actual actual energy weapons and star wars ships possess shielding which protects against both energy and kinetic/projectile weapons and the power generation of their reactors that power their shields and weaponry is much higher then the power generated by alliance weapons.
@@k.strong4712 No they had more ships then that.
Imperial Fleet was actually this at Endor
1 executor class dreadnought
2 battlecruisers
33 imperial star destroyers
1 victory class star destroyer
1 victory II class star destroyer
3 tector class star destroyers
carrack class light cruisers
418 immobilizer class cruisers
3 tartan patrol cruisers
2 EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigate
2,500 fighters, bombers and interceptors
That's on top of the Death Star IIs own compliment of the following
7,200 fighters, bombers and interceptors
4 strike cruisers
16 capital ships
2,480 GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats
13,000 support craft
@@phoenixx913 sorry my bad
You want the Systems Alliance
And it wants You
Could the Systems Alliance
Destroy the Death Star II
#AskEck
Why did The Empire change the Structures on Coruscant from Round to Square Buildings?
Post-war reconstruction due to damage sustained at the Battle of Coruscant along with changing styles and different inhabitants of the elite districts. if you can afford to live on the good areas of Coruscant you can afford to tear down a skyscraper and put one up of your own design.
Imperial design is geometric lines and edges, conform to the lines, round does not conform.
Because straight lines and angles are apparently of the Dark Side.
@@dianabarnett6886 because their absolute, and only a sith deals in absolutes
because palpatine got into playing minecraft
Stargate SG1 Human/Asgardian upgraded ship vs System alliance dreadnought ship.
You mean the BC-304 post Unending? Cause if that's so then it would probably win...especially with its Asgard Plasma Beams
@@galbert117 post unending 304 could probably take on entire battlgroups from Me universe those shields/weapons are op af in comparison to Me weapons and kinetic barriers
thats not taking into consideration mkIX nuke beaming from the 304
@@thatnorweagiandude now if we're talking about pre Unending 304 or even the Prometheus then it's more even...but transporting a nuke aboard still gives them a win...
@@galbert117 i think even preunending it comes down to hey our shields are barley taking a pounding since ME weapons kinda sucks compared to other universes so yeah nuke shenanigans simply because railguns as a antiship weapon sucks hard. also if no nuke shenanigans they could probs just ram the ME ship/s
@@thatnorweagiandude I do think ME Dreadnoughts hit in the low gigaton range and with their rapid fire rate compared to generally slower main weapon kinetic guns they could theoretically get a 303 or 304 in a tricky situation if they hit them consecutively enough...which wouldn't happen cause a 303 or 304 would run circles around a ME Dreadnough which wouldn't be able to reliably hit the ship while having to maneuver. Any Pre Unending Tauri ship would have to just transport a nuke over and blow it up from the inside since, like you said, the rail railguns would be next to useless.
There are 3 points that I like to make.
1. Alliance ship numbers.
2. Interactions between ME shields and SW Turbolasers
3. How the battle between the navy should have gone differently.
First, I feel like you really underplayed how many ships the alliance should have, now let me explain. In the canon timeline, the SA had 200 ships by the time of the First Contact War as you stated. What you forgot to consider was that SA only discovered Mass Effect technology 10 years prior from the Prothean ruins. Meaning that it took only a period of 10 years for the SA to not only reverse engineer Mass Effect technology but then mass up a fleet of 200 ships within that time period of 10 years. Assuming we are being generous and say they managed to reverse engineer ME tech in a year and into fully working prototypes and everything, that gives the SA a production scale of ~22 ships every year. After the FCW with the Turians, the SA would have ramped up production significantly as they now realise the scale that they are facing against and need to match. Let's say 1.5 times like you said. So 22 x 1.5 = 33 ships every year for 30 years. That gives us 990 ships + the 200 original for a total of 1190 ships by the time of ME1. That's not counting the influx of production capabilities the SA would have gained from the increase of colonies.
Second, this is more of a nitpick more than anything but ME shields would, in fact, interact with Turbolasers. Turbolasers despite their name are not actual lasers. They are instead high energy particle bolts or plasma. ME shields only fails to block heat and radiation, which Turbolasers are not. They can cause heat and radiation damage but are not purely heat and radiation. To put it another way, you can infer it that ME shields can interact with anything for as long it has Mass which plasma and particles do have. That doesn't mean that it can completely block it of course. Instead, the interaction would be similar to the Phasic Rounds in ME1 in which they can bypass the shields at the cost of reduced damage though given how powerful Turbolasers can be it might make that much of a difference hence the nitpick. The Normandy would be much more effective however as it's Cyclonic Barrier would literally slap away incoming plasma bolts with little to no effort preventing the small bolts from even reaching the hull.
Third, the SA has a MASSIVE range advantage over the Empire. When the battle starts, all the SA needs to do is simply stay out of range and continue to pelt them with rounds until they die. The Empire ships would, of course, try to get in range for their own weapons but here's the thing. SA ships are a lot faster than the Star Destroyers at Sublight speeds. They can just reverse and continue to fire without fear. The only way the Empire ships can catch up would be to jump into Hyperspace, but I have yet to see them perform any form of Microjump in canon yet, not to mention that goddamn chase in TLJ. In fact, it would be exactly like the chase from TLJ only with the entire SA fleet flying backwards while firing their guns at the Imperial Fleet trying to catch up. Hell, they could just focus their firepower all onto one ISD at a time to slowly whittle down the Imperial fleet if they want to. And before you talk about firepower difference, the goddamn Executor was taken down by a single fighter crashing into its bridge. Its shields for its bridge may have been down but still, also the fact that SW shields are not as effective against projectile weapons, let alone nuclear level projectiles numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Not to mention all the other possible weapons like the disruptor torpedoes.
But in the end, this is just how I feel the battle would have gone and its just one opinion out of thousands. Hell, I haven't even gone into detail on how the SA ground troops would have destroyed the Stormtrooper garrisons on Endor.
Vs matchup
Brute or Brute chieftain from Halo vs A Predator from the Predator franchise. With 2 rounds First round unarmed and unarmored. Second round fully armed and armored
Unarmed depends wich predator if is a young or old blood or if is a normal or the super predator
Armed the predator take this he just need to use camouflage and snipe the brute from a safe distance with his plasma caster
Predator would win
In an unarmed cage match, I'd give it to the Brute. In an armed arena fight, it's up in the air. In the field, I'd give it to the Predator.
Dont forget brute stalkers (bastards and their flame nades...)
I'm commander Shepard, and this is my favourite matchup on youtube.
@Oisín O'Donnell Really all the alliance needs is Shepard anyway. Drop him, Garrus, and Wrex on the death star and let em go to work. Vader is the boss battle in the throne room, Shepard knocks him around with charge and nova while Garrus overloads wis lightsaber with his omni tool and snipes the legs out from under him, with Wrex finishing up by ripping his cybernetic arms off and beating him senseless with them. Palps finds it all very amusing, and spends a few minutes trying to convince Shepard to join him only to be hit by a slew of witty retorts.
Palpatine "young fool. You dont know the power of the dark side"
Shepard "Cant be that impressive. Didnt help your friend over there much"
Palpatine "if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed"
Shepard "I think we should talk about this. I'd feel guilty beating up on an old guy"
Palpatine "there is nothing left to say"
Shepard "really" uses throw to knock him down reactor shaft, then leans over edge "how about 'goodbye'"
Also can you imagine Garrus if he saw the superlaser firing chamber. Even he wouldnt want to calibrate that thing.
I’m sorry but I have to say this...
Tali best girl
Christian Smoley Tali as a tech priest is best girl
Indeed.
Blue 100 year old best girl
Why you apologizing, you right
You are definably correct. Tali is not only the sweetest character, but if she dies before ME3, you can't get the quarian-geth armistice. She's nice to have around and has an outsized impact on the plot, of COURSE she's best girl!
I think it really depends on how dependent the Empire is on visual target acquisition.
The Normandy is totally visible to the naked eye, and from the movies and tv shows, it seems pretty clear that TIE pilots often have to see a target to attack it, with details about sensor capabilities and dependencies being criminally unmentioned.
If, for instance, one of the fighters screening the Death Star is able to see the Normandy coming, it's game over.
Windows are a structural weakness
The problem is knowing where to look in the vastness of space and being close enough to actually see it.
Can you please do which sci fi faction has the best planetary weapon QEP Alamac (Subnautica) Ion cannon rebels (Star Wars) mass driver UNSC (Halo) thank you
Depends what you're defending against. Super bugs like Tyranids or the Flood you'd probably want to find a way to fight without fighting directly or simply destroy the planet to deprive the enemy or a strategic resource.
Let’s say against a fleet of star destroyers
@@thelradame5508 If the consensus is that Star Wars shields are effective against kinetic weapons i'd wager the UNSC are out.
suppose it depends how much star wars ignores physics, Super MACS are stupidly OP :)
@@wrongjeremy2008 Indeed.
This got me wondering who would win in a match up between Krogan VS Wookie
@Oisín O'Donnell So, if you don't want me to assume that you are a troll tell my why you think that way.
Lmao I think a krogan would see a wookie bowcaster and laugh saying puny weapon pulling out a krogan warhammer smashing a wookie that has no shields or botics to stop it.
Always let the krogan win lol
@Oisín O'Donnell Sure it would. sarcasm off
didn’t the repears kinda fear the Krogans?
I feel the SA is vastly underestimated here. Not because of ship numbers, but their weapons are a good bit stronger than many people think. Mass effect accelerated slugs can hit with the force of nuclear bombs, no small amount of energy. Remember the gunnery sergeant talking to the recruits about why it's so important to check targets? Remember the codex entry about space engagements that talks about a law which makes it illegal to fire at an enemy if there is a habitable planet behind them? That's because if those shots miss and hit the planet, it's similar to the destructive power that an ICBM would cause. Massive amounts of destruction.
And with the Imperials being outnumbered ten to one or more, with new Thanix technology? That prolonged salvo will do a lot more damage than credit is given. Especially when we take Rogue One into account, where the ionized Star Destroyer collides with the fully-shielded destroyer, and cleaves it in half. While giving off a fair amount of energy, it's still nothing compared to what a massive barrage of kinetic projectiles shot at a fraction of the speed of light would do.
This is a great point and something practically everyone who discusses "ME vs SW" conflicts forget. It's always mentioned how ME uses projectiles that the SW universe can easily defend against yet forget that those projectiles are essentially high-yield torpedoes in destructive potential. You've essentially got a seemingly endless supply of missiles (ME bullets) battering the Imperial shields non-stop and we've all seen what normal torpedo damage can do in a Star Wars space battle.
IMO what we actually see takes precedent over what we read. And you can visibly see the impact of mass effect cannons on planets when the quarian fleet is firing at the reaper, and those effects are... underwhelming. Certainly far less powerful than a turbolaser barrage is.
Additionally, mass effect kinetic barriers wouldnt even *work* against star wars ships.
The thing with the star destroyer only works if you can actually take down their shields. Star wars ships overwhelmingly rely on their shields and get obliterated quite easily otherwise. But none of the capital ship weapons in star wars are ion weapons, so theres nothing they could do to easily shut down star destroyers shields.
@@lenkagamine4145 If we're taking away the lore aspect of Mass Effect in favor of "what we see in the visula media" then the same has to be done to Star Wars, and turbolasers are equally underwhelming. Likewise, turbolasers are not strictly lasers, and kinetic barrier technology would still trigger as a laser bolt is still a fast moving object. Besides, with battle VIs, some ships would be able to shut down a star destroyer electronically. I imagine EDI could shut down a whole fleet if she wanted to.
The Imperium of Man would just fire a cyclonic torpedo at the death star and call it a day.
Eck, I would love to see an analysis of the Dominion from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Notably their ships, and overall structure of their military forces. Just an idea, love your videos man, keep it up!
Shepard, Garrus, Wrex and Kasumi would have this won in an hour.
Kasumi splits off and hacks systems, locking doors and elevators to direct reinforcements away from them, while the resr of the squad launched an assault. They rejoin and reach the power core, plant a big ass bomb, Joker flies a shuttle in to pick them up.
In and out in 30 minutes.
Pffttt, the Normandy SR2 and her crew is all you need.
TheRamblin’ Mahoney Eh... Empire has direct energy weapons. A swarm of TIEs would be able to take out the Normandy.
@@deriznohappehquite that requires them to be able to see the Normandy first
And GARDIAN lasers are nothing to joke about. They take point defense to a whole new level.
John D. A tie doesn’t have much power output. If Star Wars weaponry really had that much power, then I wouldn’t need to shoot multiple targets in battlefront whilst using it. Instead, I could just shoot the ground and eliminate 10 other players instantly.
@@Acepilot25 Indeed. The point defense lasers the Alliance have would make for an absolute TIE slaughter. If it were Rebel fighters, they'd give the Alliance more trouble, but TIEs have no shields. Because they're mass produced crap.
I just want to thank you for how "zen" your videos are. I've been pretty anxious and stressed today, and just that opening with "Resonance" followed by your general voice/tone/vibe of your video is relaxing. It's helped reset me, alongside being interesting content that's fun to watch. Just thanks, Eck. Thanks.
YES!! Love the VS videos
Also, a Super Star destroyer Vs the UNSC Infinity
Mass effect is my favorite series by far so I'd love to see more stuff related to it but as always keep up the good work
A Cool Matchup would be The Prewar UNSC vs The Systems Alliance both use similar Fleet Style so I Wonder which world come out on top.
The UNSC seems like a directly outdated version of the Systems Alliance.
he already made a video about the UNSC Infinity with its escort fleet versus the Sistems Alliance fleet at the Citadel
UNSC won by outgunning the enemy, if he used a fleet of equal size of the pre Human-Covenant War ships I think that ME would have won since by the time the UNSC didn't have shielding tecnology
I heavily disagree with you. Mass drivers would play a huge role in this. Imperial shields would be completely useless against them. And they would have extreme range on the imperials. The imperials would form a battle line and move to engage the incoming fleet. What they wouldn’t be able to see are the hundreds of fighter sized slugs careening towards their fleets at hypersonic speeds. The mass driver rounds would pierce all imperial ships. Probably piercing multiple ships, depending on how clustered the imperials are. Now I don’t think it would be a total alliance victory. The imperials could simply jump to the other side of the Endor system, then jump back in the midst of or behind the alliance fleet. Which would cause he devastation you talked about. But it definitely wouldn’t be an almost one sided Pyrrhic victory.
Valkyrie variable fighter squadron( SDF Macross) vs Viking mech squadron( Starcraft).
Imperial Reaver class Titan ( Warhammer 40K) vs the LED Mirage Mortar Headd( Five Star Stories).
1)macross stomp
2)don't know
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 you'd be surprised how close the Viking is to the Valkyrie.
Did a little research to why and the viking apparently is based off the valkyrie or at least inspired
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 the second one is a 15 meter at the shoulder 155 ton walking knight based mech with 2 superhuman pilots vs an imperial titan which has a ton of weapons.
What about that Valkyrie againts the Zeta Gundam?
I think you are under estimating the tactical brilliance of admiral hacket and and Admiral Anderson their combined tactical intelligence could possibly even rival thrawn or at least give him a decent challenge , not to mention a little bit of a plot hole that thane was bedridden by mass effect 3 being deathly ill from kepral’s syndrome but there is a possibility ( very slim but possible ) that this all takes place betweem the end of mass effect 2 ( post suicide mission everyone lives ) and the beginning of mass effect 3 not to mention that tali went back to the migrant fleet after the suicide mission but later during the reaper war she rejoins the crew
Here’s a interesting matchup System Alliance vs the Martian Congressional Republic from The Expanse
I'd want to see that
I agree with you completely Eck, your assessment of the two fleets themselves is spot on, Shepard and company being integral to shutting down the shield generator is exactly how I imagined it, and the Very costly of their win can't be denied. There is one detail I'd like to bring up that gave me a bit of a question of capabilities in this fight and that's the ability of the Star Wars Ray shielding to deflect or resist the mass driver rounds. Given their ability to shrug off stationary or slow moving asteroids of varying size, and admittedly ignoring the Legends collision of one SSD into another (can't remember which specifically but you know what I mean) because of the fact that that is about the craziest instance I can think of where any type of Star Wars shield resisted anything, it just seems too bonkers to act as a proper gauge of All the Ray Shields power (I know you didn't do that but it could be used as evidence) and only ever happened that one time. I believe that a projectile only 20 kilograms in weight and able to fit in your palm being shot at 3,897,302 meters per second should be able to punch straight through without much resistance, although not Every round would survive the impact, which I think you took into account with that opening salvo, and they wouldn't be doing a great deal of damage given their size.
However with how stupidly predominant both the bridge and reactor are on ISDs I do think that the Systems Alliance would be able to pick out such obvious weaknesses and take them out, simply allowing them to finish off more of Death Squadron, not nessecarily win the battle. Executor certainly would present the greatest challenge, and likely resist the vast majority of ordnance thrown at it, but as we saw in Return of the Jedi it only takes a single strike destroying the bridge to bring down the entire ship. Unless the Systems Alliance is better able to maintain distance (something I think they may already know is a necessity based on your statement that the events prior to this engagement has played out the same) I really don't see their odds improving much more than a solid 6/10, but with their far greater speed in sublight and FTL I think they might be able to do so.
I really enjoyed this episode, maybe more than your other fleet match-ups thus far, and can appreciate taking plot details like Shepard being present and his leadership skills, Sidious and Vader being away because of the potential threat and lack of reasoning to be present, it all makes sense. That's not to say I dislike such things being left out of other comparisons you have done, I think it just fits the situation better here and doesn't so much in others like the UNSC Home Fleet vs the Rebel Fleet at Endor where it is more of a direct battle and the characters involved would only effect the events in a minor capacity.
Great job as always, looking forward to whatever comes out next I watch literally Every single one of your videos regardless of topic, and hope you are doing well!
oooh this video is nice
but #askeck
who would be better
CIS Vs Geth
+
Depends quantity CIS all the way quality geth all the way
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593
depends on the quantity front though
geth go have millions of themselves in a non-physical state (sort of just being stored) and will produce the amount of physical units required based on the situation.
I think the Geth is far superior to the CIS. Geth seem to be more highly networked, coordinated, armed, and accurate. Yes while the CIS is a massive industrial power that can endlessly pump out battledroids faster than the Geth can produce them I think the superior tactics of the Geth could allow them to target cumbersome CIS factories and eliminate CIS output. Consequently the CIS could leverage its massive fleets to prevent the Geth from landing planet side anyways and could just as equally leverage these same fleets to overwhelm smaller Geth fleets and squash their factories as well. Who knows.
@@KeithMetoyer
this maybe so but you also forget the geth are insanely adaptable to their situation and foes, also condisering the information gained from legion in ME 2 and 3 we find that the geth had reaper tech as well as their own.
yes the CIS has the sear force but the geth could just hack their systems and use the droids for their own ends, considering geth can literally hack anything from info gained in all ME games.
Man I love these videos! And this is one of your best yet :)
What if scenario star wars
What if CIS droids are replaced by the machines of terminator with star wars tech the terminator units are basically the same but upgraded with star wars tech to make it fair
The word isn't upgraded its downgraded. A T101 is far superior to any battledroid, nevermind a T1000.
Consider a T101 can fire a minigun, accurately and hit only what it aims at, without the gun needing optics or been integral to its design. That's a minigun, a high recoil low accuracy weapon, now give the same T101 a DMR or sniper rifle, it's going target shooting at several 100m (over 1000 with the SR) from a standing position, at rapid speeds. Basically a T101 with a DMR at 600m would pick off an entire clock e battalion before they got in range.
Yes I know if they were that good humanity would never have won the war, but plot armour helps. And we saw they were that good when the T101 fired a minigun at the police in T2.
@@cgi2002 *Jedi:* I'll just use my lightsaber to block the shots from this Droid while you…gaaa
100 rounds tear through the Jedi master.
Mace Windu is nailed next, Yoda takes a while longer cause he hops around like a rabbit on meth, but the first time he reflexively stands his ground and parry's incoming rounds he's shredded.
I'd think that the DS2 would fire it's laser as soon as it's ready, picking off the larger ships one by one, especially those that are holding back. The Dreadnoughts snd Cruisers would be the first to go. That said, I do think that the smaller craft(Frigates and Fighters) are going to be very difficult if not impossible to hit by the DS or the larger capital ships. I don't think the larger Alliance Ships are going to stay in the fight for very long.
there is a problem with this in the fact that the Alliances as a lot of large ships about the side of Dreadnoughts and that is the Supercarriers which they have in under at least 200 in total but could be lower. It's how they got around the Fenix treaty part and thus they use those to shield the other ships or just keep doing as is.
However FTL travel is superior in this situation than that of Hyperspace for they can do shortburst jumps without a cooldown period/calculations of magnitudes
.
1:03 Are you serious!? As Shepard I would save Destiny Ascension 10/10. Just picture the number of grateful Asaris onboard. Jeez...
I like Mass Effect but Shepard and the ground team are done for. Their kinetic barriers won't stop blasters and their hardsuits were designed with the grain sized pellets of mass effect arms in mind so they're no help.
Thane and Tali who both rely more on shields than armor will be dead the first time they get hit.
The only chance they have is to choose Kasumi and Garrus/Thane running pure stealth. By which I mean get in, plant explosives, get the hell out. No being seen. No fire fights. Use Spawn and Wrex and whatever other Krogan you can get as a distraction if necessary, it's not like they're necessary to winning the Reaper War. All you need is the Quarians, Geth and Turians.
What about if the Reapers tried to fight Revans infinite fleet and the Star Forge (from SWKOTOR's sith ending)?
Tromedlov Drolmai Reapers would win with moderate loses
I miss these versus videos. Great video as always. Keep it up!
I want the next vs ro be warhammer 40k imperial navy battlegroup solar (including phalanx pre 13th black crusade) vs the entirety of the galactic imperial navy (including a death star)
Void weapons are a bitch.
Great video and great editing. Was really enjoyable to watch.
With the power of plot armor of course the Death Star 2 would be destroyed
The power of plot armor is with the rebels to funny enough. Pal's own downfall was giving the Rebels a free lunch pass in a sense.
One Problem with the Normandy Strategy. The Death Star itself has Turbolasers, and as we know, Visual Scanning is a large part of Star Wars. All you'd need is one Tie Pilot to clock the Normandy and Transmit a warning to the Death Star and then All those Turbo's go live and tear the Normandy apart when it slows to release the Trident, Especially if she sits over the Entry port to try and deny access. I seriously doubt Cortez would even get to the Reactor, especially if he's being pursued by Interceptors instead of regular TIE's.
Would the Empires ships even have activated their shields at the beginning? Whilst on guard duty with no enemy in sighted wouldn’t it be a waste of energy to have them running all the time?
Therefore wouldn’t that first salvo be somewhat more damaging?
Considering the Death Star II was under construction i'd assume they'd be on constant high alert.
I don't think having the shield active would be too energy consuming, especially considering they don't have to power the engine or the weapon at the begining, the shield might be less efficient at the start thought. Especially the deflector as they wouldn't expect long range physical weapon.
It was a trap, so the Empire would have. That said, it would be a bad trap because the System Alliance could just turn to any direction and immediately leave, because the SA doesn't need hyperlanes to FTL safely.
@@bubbasbigblast8563 but at the same time, the SA fleet will HAVE to either crush the empire fleet or engage it from time to time even with the hight loss it imply, otherwise the imperial squadron would just turtule around the death star to protect it and wait for reinforcement while the deathstar take some shots at the SA fleet. A situation that would cost the normandy its access to the death star.
So the SA fleet would be forced to let the imperial fleet catch some of its ship to keep them on the chase.
Even if the empire's combat shields were down. They would still have their navigation shields up in case of meteorites. Which is essentially what the SA would be throwing at them. So all it would do is alert the empire but it was a trap so the empire would be expecting the SA.
About the System Alliance naval numbers. They had 200 in the first Contact war like you said but they built that fleet in 9 years. Afterwards they got in contact with the rest of the galaxy. That should have increased their ship building program because of a stronger economy from access to more trade partners, a greater realization of the threats they faced in the galaxy, and access to better ship building technology. So lets say that the rate at which they produced ships increased to 1.5. They build around 300 ships every decade (remember they built 2/3rds that number in a similar time frame before contact with the rest of the galaxy). They should have around 1100 ships by the time of the reaper invasion. Even if you want to say that the rate they built their ships stayed the same they should still have made roughly 200 ships every decade leading to a fleet size of 800. Saying that they could only produce half the amount of ships in three times the amount of time is just silly.
bleachmon1 thank u!!!
Three bones to pick here:
1) The Alliance Navy was was definitely way larger than that, the 200 ship figure was from 9 years after the discovered the Prothean Ruins (9 years to build the navy from scratch including inventing the technology going into building the ships and their weapons and manufacturing processes to work with eezo, establishing the shipyards, off Earth mining operations for eezo and other material resources needed, creating a military command structure, and everything else in 9 years and having 200 ships by that point), the Reaper War starts 29 years later. During that period they had a fast and sustained military, economic and territorial expansion and were an acknowledged great power in the galaxy. So the lowest ball park figure you're looking at is a few thousand ships, not counting fighters and troop transports, not a few hundred ships.
2) Ranges, sure you brought it up but I don't see a reason to think that the Empire could close the range in combat. Their ships might be reasonably fast in the context of Star Wars, but ME ships are expected to dodge most of the shots aimed at them, they'd definitely have the acceleration to keep the range open and keep up a barrage and since range in ME its determined by how fast the target can dodge (and an ISD or Executor basically has no ability to dodge) the range would be even longer. I don't see how Death Squadron could effectively engage the SA fleet; the SA fleet may not be able to pierce Star Wars shields, but Death Squadron probably shouldn't even be able to land a shot beyond the occasional lucky hit (extreme turbolaser range in Star Wars is knife fighting range for Mass Effect ship based weapons).
3) After the Death Star is Destroyed why would the Systems Alliance bother engaging Death Squadron? Their primary objective is complete and they can pull out while they're ahead, sure it isn't a complete victory, but so what, most of the Imperial forces are destroyed and they'll have suffered minimal casualties and they can't penetrate ISD shields, so going to FTL and cracking open a few beers seems like the option to go with in that situation.
The Covenant vs the Systems Alliance and the Yuuzhan Vong vs the UNSC (post war)
@Oisín O'Donnell I think the UNSC could handle them.
@Oisín O'Donnell Well the Empire is huge soyeah probably
@Oisín O'Donnell The Empire. It is bigger, not far behind in technology, more competent leaders and more resources. Also it has a much more stable goverment.
Just as a note for trying to estimate ship numbers on the alliance side.
In the Mass effect game there's a codex that points out when humanity first discovered the Prothean technology on Mars which ushered in a technological surge forward pushing humanities space fairing technology forward hundreds of years. Before that point humanity was barely making it to Jupiter.
So if you were to take the codex ( the resulting year the Prothean technology discovered) and the codex for the first contact war. Find the difference in the time and distribute 200 ships over those years, you would probably find the production rate for humanity.
At which point take that rate ( the rate may have been slightly higher after that time due to time gaining more proficiency with the technology) multiply it by 30 add it to the 200 ships, and allocate the ship type by the distribution previously held by the existing fleet.
#askeck Halo theory idea
What if the UNSC had never researched the spartan 2 or mjolnir programs. However one month after first contact with the covenant the UNSC INFINITY and her escort fleet of Autumn class cruisers appear at earth through a wormhole. The ships are fully operational and have manuals detailing how all ship systems, such as shielding and more advanced slipsace, operate and also how to build them for other ships. How does this affect the human covenant war? Does humanity win or lose?
Lose as since it is the start of the war the covenant was at its strongest and would be able to counter the single ship that could hurt them, Spartans where so important in the war do to the covenant not being able to adapt to them. Hard to train a solider to fight something that’s kills everyone you send to observe it, much easier to create something to counter a ship which you can simply scan
I feel like the presence of the Infinity makes this scenario a no-brainer human win. As this is soon after First Contact, humanity would still have the means to produce (or at least, reverse engineer/retrofit) future-grade armaments. Even if there’s initial distrust toward the strange fleet, UNSC historical & security information could easily convince the early-UNSC that these guys are friendly. Combine that with Infinity & her fleet preempting the first stages of Covenant attacks, and they’ll easily gain the trust of their predecessors.
Even without the Spartan-2 Program, Infinity’s data could easily jump humanity straight toward the S4 levels of mass-augmentations. Combine that with humanity’s (then-still-unknown) ground superiority against the Covenant, and UNSC ground forces could more handily hold off Covenant forces, while Infinity dominates the space war (or trains other ships in proper anti-Covenant fleet tactics).
UGNAvalon the infinity would be a complete different ship as it was built with Spartans and spartan tech in mind making it inferior to the infinity that we know today.
Interesting, but you have to remember that at the start of the war the covenant had access to two CSO class supercarriers. I think that even one of them could beat the Infinity head to head, especially when you account for the overwhelming numerical advantage the covenant had over humanity regarding ship warfare. Without Spartans, its also arguable that the schism would never happen, as the Elites would probably dominate all ground combat no questions asked. If it were me, I’d organize a fleet with one CSO, 10 CSA carriers, 20 cruisers equipped with energy lances, and hundreds of cruisers, destroyers, and corvettes to act as a screen to block flanking maneuvers. It’d be simple to eliminate one ship when you have thousands at your disposal
TheWingland infinity struggled with two CAS Battlecruisers. If it comes up against a CSO or large Covenant task force, it would lose.
Can I just say.... I love that you start your videos right away.... No loooooong headline explaining (which means you dont treat us like idiots, you know we can read) Thanks #EckhartsLadder
A ground battle between a squad of Alliance marines (or even better N7 squad) and stormtroopers would be slaughter due to superior range of Alliance forces and their use of projectile weapons even if vastly outnumbered. Also all the Alliance fleet needs to do is make the use of their FTL drives to stay out of the range of Imperial ships (the FTL drives shouldn't be affected by Interdyctors).
I think EDI would be more of a deciding factor in the battle.
Think about it she was able to trick reapers into thinking the Normandy was another reaper.
I think that EDI would be able to infect some of the imperial fleet with a computer virus that would cause the destruction of systems on the ship. Like overloading the shield generator.
@swimfeared then a tie fighter sees it what then or the stupidly overexposed bridge of a star destroyer sees it then its game over
yeah, she'll infect the Imperial computers with 7 zettabytes of explicit content :) as a joke lmao.
Though I say Mass Effect AI is more sophisticated than Star Wars AI and computers, meaning EDI can obviously easily hack into Imperial Computer systems and maybe with the help of the rest of the Normandy crew as well.
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (551st try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
What are the replicators
Im with you all the way!
@@beckydickerson8121 an all consuming von-neumann nanomachines swarm from stargate they can replicate any tech they consume
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 like weebs
Good good.
Continue onwards no matter what others tell you.
Like me.
#AskEck
So I’m more than a little confused here. Why is it that you believe the shields of the System’s Alliance would be completely ineffective? As far as I understand it, turbolasers, and really all lasers in the Star Wars universe, use Tibana gas heated up to a plasma and launched out. This makes it a bolt of plasma, not actually a laser beam. We can see this in any of the original movies, where blasters clearly exert force on the targets they hit (usually stormtroopers.)
So, if we agree that it is a plasma projectile, then the System’s Alliance shields would, theoretically, not be bypassed. Since the Mass Effect universe shields rely on increasing the density of the surrounding gas/outer layer of hull, it would have a noticeable effect on the damage a projectile, like turbolaser fire, would do. Aaaand, if Shepard exists in this universe, and the Normany is tricked out, then Tali can share those fancy oscillating shield systems with the rest of the Alliance, who would likely be able to get ahold of the needed emitters for them. These new shields have proven very effective against both projectiles, and actual laser weapons like AFAIK the Collectors used.
So, to wrap it up, saying they don’t work doesn’t make any god damn sense.
Sincerely,
Austin. Wait, fuck, it’s Hyper, ah never mind....
In the mass effect lore kinetic barriers are very weak to extreme temperatures such as plasma so turbo lasers being most likely plasma would easily penetrate.
remember they held off the turians until a peaceful solution was reached. edi's importance was downplayed in this scenario considering she's an unshackled ai and how much human control is needed in star wars. thane assuming he's not too sick i would have chosen garrus if this is me3 setting.
The First Contact War was between a scout flotilla and two alliance fleets. Alliance exploration vessels were activating Mass effect relays which was considered a no-no by the Turians. The Turian scout flotilla destroyed the alliance exploration group but didn't send a fleet. The alliance sent two fleets which then wiped out the Turian scout fleet. After this point the council got involved and ended the war. That was the extent of the space battles against the Turians.
Forrunners vs imperium of man during the great crusade
United Mass Effect galaxy + the Reapers vs a Yuzhan Vong invasion
Do the Yuzhan Vong have resistance to psychic influences?
@@Litany_of_Fury Well, they're resistant to the Force. But the Reapers don't use that to influence minds. I see no reason why the Vong would not be susceptible to Reaper indoctrination.
@@dianabarnett6886 Not to mention Biotics are not the force so the ability negates their resistant to the force part haha.
@@dianabarnett6886 seems pretty cut and dry then.
Seems a little odd that the alliance gets Shepard but the Empire doesn’t get Vader but it doesn’t matter as you said. They just don’t have the proper tech and numbers to handle Death squadron, let alone if the DSII starts firing.
The Systems Alliance doesn't have a weapon against those who can magically predict your tactics and intentions.
Mission objective achieved.
Congratulations, you just lost the war, because the Emperor is now annoyed with the Systems Alliance and a full fleet is enroute to deal with the problem.
What if Shepard and Thrown switched places? Could Shepard unite the SW galaxy to defend them from the Yuuzhong Vong? How would Thrawn unite the Milky Way to beat the Reapers? Seems close since both have to save the galaxy from a massive extragalactic threat.
Star wars vs mass effect universe
Legends or Disney star wars?
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 first round is legends
Second round is Disney's star wars
Bonus round is both
@@Jeffthecreepyastafan
1)star wars stomp
2)star wars still wins but with quite some difficulty
3)same as round 1
If were going on canon then the ships from any era run out of fuel attempting to reach the mass effect universe
Reapers are a bitch to fight.
If Shepard could get a drop ship on board the death star and he had a Krogan (Grunt or Wrex) it’d be a real hard job for any stormtrooper to stop them since the Krogan’s “don’t need luck, they have ammo”
Shepard would just abuse cover to regen health.
TLDR: He played as FemShep and saved Ash
There are clips of broshep too, but none of Kaidan. No one saved Kaidan.
Virmire is always such a hard choice for me. Which one do I want nuked more?
And let the council die.
@@dianabarnett6886 I like Ashley and Kaiden and also a lot of Mass Effect fans are rather stupid forgiving Ashley a lot of s*** she isn't xenophobic toward aliens she simply doesn't trust them asides from the ones on the Normandy who she works with the entire time they are an exception to the rule and also she was completely right about the council abandoning Humanity and again a lot of Mass Effect fans completely misinterpreted her bear and dog metaphor
This was a good breakdown and I feel like it covered all of the necessary pints in a manner which conveyed enough detail but didn’t drag things out
Can the UNSC and the Covenant survive and beat the Angel Zeruel from Evangelion on Earth when the Covenant first attacked? Zeruel appears out of nowhere in this and is laying waste to everything and everyone that it sees and gets in it's way while trying to look for Lilith on this version of Earth to start the next Impact
Yes they can survive
Beware the Mountain of God, though I think Ramiel would be even more fun
I think your over estimating the effectiveness of the shielding the empires ships would have, Mass Drivers are the closest thing we could compare to the mass effect weaponry.
After the second or perhaps third barrage the smaller ships would start taking crippling hits.
I would also think that, due to the power differences of the fleets, The alliance would likly attempt boarding actions to cripple or destroy the ISDs from within.
With biotics, the Alliance would have a much easier time successfully sabotaging the ISDs then the rebels would have.
Overall I think this fight is much closer then you allude too, if the alliance plays into its strengths, they could easily defeat the small imperial fleet.
Love the videos and I'd love to see more Starwars VS Mass Effect videos
#AskEck
What kind of weapons did the Forerunners use to destroy star systems during the Forerunner-Flood war?
that is a pretty good summery of the mass effect series "no chance in a head to head" "will only work if things go exactly their way" and "the main fighting force is just trying to buy time" you have just described the entirety of mass effect 3 XD
#AskEck
Hey, I’m building models of starships and space stations all to scale with one another, and I’m currently considering making models from Star Trek, Wars, Gate, BSG, B5, Halo, & Mass Effect.
Since I cannot make any of my ships longer that 2 1/2 feet, what are the best choices to made models of? Any response is appreciated, keep up the good work.
ME Normandy 2
I like how you factored the skillsets and capabilities of individuals like Shephard or Thane into the final verdict. I didn't think it would be feasible to keep the character drama from M.E. relevant in a straightforward, hypothetical battle, but you somehow pulled it off.
think Kasumi would be good too for she is the best in the ME galaxy of getting into things and stealing etc. She also knows how to hack but would say Legion is better for he can get hurt and keep moving. if Tali does she runs the risk at dying to an infection and this battle is too important for rooms of error in worrying. Not that she can't fight through it no, but you need the ones that will not slow you down, can be quick and deadly for this mission to work with what Shepard brings.
It was a very interesting way to execute this fight!
I think the numbers were a bit underrated tho.
And maybe the range of the ME ships, and their vastly superior maneuvers compared to the pretty slow turbolasers, effective range from sw will be so low that I think they will lose the space engagement.
I like it; however, I disagree with the ground team, you said that you would be basing it on the forces of ME; so by using that logic, Sheppard would pick Garus instead of Thane because Thane dies long before the final battle with the Reapers.
Vs. Idea
United the expanse Sol system vs UNSC
Attempt no. 2
It was mentioned somewere that right before mass effect 3 humans had been making a battlecruiser class in large numbers to go around the no more dreadnaught rule(I think it might be a non-canon thing though), there battle cruisers had better armor, shields and stronger guns then regular cruiser and could fight dreadnaught with better odds, they were made to fight turian dreadnaught with 2 battlecruiser to 1 dreadnaught fight and have a 50/50 chance, they also fielded about twice as many fleet carriers as they did dreadnaughts, which is why we see so many human fighters at the battle for earth, the citadel didnt use fighter craft before the first contact war, and human also introduced destroyers to mass effect which no one else had till then. Oh and by ME3 there are multiple normandy class frigates in the Alliance fleet (armed with thanox cannons) with can do a hefty bit of damage.
One thing you forgot, the Death Star can snipe ships.
It has a short range compared to a faction that can fight from the other side of the solar system.
@@Litany_of_Fury True.
@@Litany_of_Fury They cannot fight from the other side of the solar sytem. Against the Death Star, sure, it's not moving. But the farther away you are, the longer it takes to hit an opponent with your weaponry. Even relativistic speed weaponry (ME shots travel between 25-40% the speed of light) is obviously limited by the speed of light. So if you're 1 Astronomical Unit away (Distance from Earth to Sun), a projectile moving AT the speed of light would take a little over eight minutes to reach the target. Slow as a Star Destroyer is, it can out maneuver a barrage that takes well over eight minutes to reach it. If they're closer, less time to dodge but the range advantage is negated.
Then again, the Death Star was orbiting Endor, so by the time the rounds got there the Death Star would've moved well out of the way (assuming they're an AU or half the solar system away as you say).
@@1nt3rD1ct0r we are talking about mass effect weaponry through. Very small warheads traveling very fast. Star Wars has relatively limited tracking technology and the death star II is a static object.
By the way, a little critique on your description of Mass Effect's stealth systems, it's not enough to hide them from radar/ladar. The stealth systems are heat sinks that capture the vessel's emissions so that it doesn't leave an infrared signature. The reason for this is because active sensors with radar and laser-based ladar have narrow fields of view and space is so big. IR sensors are more passive - merely detecting objects that have radiated heat.
I don't think it's necessarily laid out as concisely in the canon, but the Normandy can still be detected if the enemy uses its active sensors and catches a reflection from the ship's hull. It just would be unlikely because they'd only be using active sensors to accurately identify and acquire a firing solution.
I think you are wrong. The capital ship weapons of the Earth Alliance of Mass Effect are very similar to the capital ship weapons of humans in Halo. In a previous video I think I recall you gave the Halo universe a slight edge against the Deathstar. Even though power generation for protection in Star Wars is much higher, you are underestimating the force of what would be thousands of projectiles accelerated to near the speed of light impacting every minute.
Totally this. Mass accelerator cannons are functionally identical to MAC guns. Volleys of them would ruin the day of the Imperial Navy.
Halo MAC rounds are far stronger and powerful than Mass Effect rounds could do despite being slower, and that was against the Death Star 1 which meant it wasn't shielded by anything, but it is something the System Alliance fleet could also do. Against the Death Star 2 however it is very much different for both matches as a Star Wars Planetary shield could withstand orbital bombardments.
Yeah but Mass effect guns are to small... unfortunately. The UNSC were like floating tanks in space that shot bigger rounds, although they could only Shoot like once every five minutes I think. The alliance would probably just need to keep enough distance between them and there target. Which would be easy for them since it’s there Whole military Doctrine
@@ancientarchives9722 Mass Effect guns are relatively small but the velocities are much higher and the rate of fire is much faster. Halo Nation puts ship borne MAC kinetic energy at equivalent to 56 kilotons of TNT. I've been doing some reading and the main gun of the Everest class dreadnaught fires a 20kg slug at 4025 km/s with a kinetic energy of around 38 kilotons of TNT. The difference is that the Everest can fire its main gun 12 times a minute and I think Eck said that they would have 9 Everest class dreadnaughts plus hundreds of smaller ships firing from their main weapons which are also quite powerful.
@@ezoren7801 he did say that he was assuming that the shield had been disabled.
I'd love to see more Mass Effect content from you, Eck
More "what if" scenarios would be interesting, too
As in "what if the Citadel took Shepard's advice seriously from early on and the massed fleets of the Milky Way were already mobilized and battle-ready to engaje the Reapers as they entered the Galaxy"
Honestly I think you pretty vastly under estimated how powerful relativistic speed slugs are. Ignoring their effects on the deflector shields the SA's range advantage could easily let them orbitally bombard the shield generator with out being anywhere near the Imperial Fleet. Plus it means they could probably pretty easily kite the star destroyers out of position making the Death Star even more vulnerable.
Looking forward to more videos 😀
Rhe thing is if the executor was in range for just a few seconds the entire fleet would be destroyed tho
@@derrickmeade4891 I mean a few seconds seems a bit of an exaggeration but The Executor certainly would certainly have a huge impact if it got in range. That is a pretty big if though and I think you are underestimating the power of a relativistic slug and just how fast and how far the Systems Alliance can shoot. The Rebels proved that raw power doesn't count for much, I'm pretty sure the systems alliances would wipe the floor with the Death Star 2's defenses.
@@evilgenius919 mass drivers exist in star wars. Mass drivers are considered outdated and inneffective in star wars. If we're going to just ignore the way mass drivers are treated in universe we might as well just ignore everything in the lore and assume star destroyers have no shields, are made of paper mache, and fight with water guns.
Otherwise we have to actually listen to the lore, and in lore mass drivers were replaced with turbolasers because turbolasers were far more powerful. Ergo it is fair to assume that the mass effect ships firepower is outclassed by the star wars ships.
During the first Contact war, the Systems Alliance had 200 ships divided into 2 fleets. Considering that the Alliance only has 3 Everest-class Dreadnoughts, which were most likely from that era, I'd guess that each Dreadnought lead a compliment of about 100 ships. Humanity had 9 Dreadnoughts by ME3. With 100 ships per Dreadnought, that would be 900 ships. As for exact composition. It is stated that each Cruiser lead a Flotilla of 4 to 6 Frigates. So using a ratio of 1 Cruiser for every 5 Frigates, this is the size of the Alliance Fleet I came up with.
- 3 Everest-class Dreadnoughts (888m)
- 6 Kilimanjaro-class Dreadnoughts (1km)
- 144 Cruisers (700m)
- 720 Frigates(150m)
- At least 9 Carriers(1km)
If they knew about the shield why would they make a full out assault on the imperial fleet?
Also the reasons that the "numbers" are so high in legends is because nobody knew shit about science writing those books. Those "turbo lasers" would destroy worlds more effectively than the deathstar if those 'numbers are to be beloved.
@Gabriel Herman
"They attacked the Death Star because 1: They thought it was un-operational at the time"
yeah, so the rebels thought they would have a fair chance of defeating the Imperial fleet, but in Eckharts reasoning the Systems Alliance does not, so they shouldn't care whether the death star is operational or not, they simply has no reason to engage in fleet combat, at least at a range where the imperial fleet can shoot back.
Theorethically ME ships should have a huge tactical advantage on a battlefield due to their short range FTL and range advantage, the Imperial ships have better defense and damage output by a lot, but can't ever land a hit on an ME ship unless the ME fleet lets them.
On a small seperate battlefield like this the ME fleet should eventually win but take a long time.
Star Wars tech is weird, it has extreme shields and weaponry but huge glaring weaknesses that can be exploited in other areas.
Tactically Star Wars space warfare never made much sense so it's difficult to not take advantage of dumb mechanics if pitting it against other universes.
The only valid tactic for the imperial fleet would be to just hyperjump out of there and go obliterate earth with half an hours bombardment.
Let the systems alliance destroy the death star while you destroy their home planet with your superior heavy weaponry
@@freedomfighter22222 he said the events leading up were the same as in star wars, ergo the systems alliance thinks the same thing the rebels did.
Secondly, you say that the systems alliance has this massive range advantage, but I've seen teh final battle of mass effect 3 and they are not fighting at ranges of light minutes. They are quite clearly within or nearly within visual range of the reapers when they open fire. Also you can see the projectiles individually so they are not instant.
@@lenkagamine4145 What does the system alliance thinking the same thing as the rebels about the empires position have to do with how they would plan to engage with their own tactical advantages?
They have a massive range advantage but they shoot projectiles that have travel time, both them and the reapers have fast moving ships that could dodge the projectiles from a long distance so the Mass Effect species all prefer close quarter combat to make sure they hit,
Earth is right behind the reaper forces and every shot that misses a reaper nukes a city on Earth(search for "Mass Effect 2: Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space
" to see a video that explains their mentality)
The mass effect universe uses projectiles we could build with todays tech, they just shoot a big rocket with a nuke on it, when shot they do not stop until they hit something so the range you can fire from depends on the speed of the target you want to hit, they technically have unlimited range
@@freedomfighter22222 If you look at official range numbers for either mass effect or star wars, they are both absuedly high. And if you look at actual engagements in either setting you can clearly see that nobody is actually fighting at those ranges.
If you can find me a video clip of mass effect ships engaging eachother from 200,000 kilometers away where there is no sign of their opponents at all, then I'll believe it. But if it just throws high numbers around, well star wars does that too with some sources claimiing ranges measured in light-minutes for turbolasers.
Personally I think what is visibly seen takes precedence over dialogue or codex entries, and what we see is mass effect ships engaging practically at point blank almost always.
If they werent willing to engage the Reapers at a super long range theres no reason to think they'll change their mind fighting the Empire.
anyways the first post was responding to "yeah, so the rebels thought they would have a fair chance of defeating the Imperial fleet, but in Eckharts reasoning the Systems Alliance does not", where I was saaying more or less, they think the same thing the rebels did so they do think they have a chance of defeating the imperial fleet, just like the rebels thought.
Or infiltrate the deathstar with Normandy piggybacking on some Imperial vessel, or stealing an imperial vessel and going in with full squad. Like in ME2. That way they can overpower the Deathstar squadron, take command of this fully operational battlestation and destroy fleet themselves. It's not like they didn't do crazy missions like this before. And for systems Alliance the best option would be to concentrate long-range fire on one ship at the time. 300 ships vs one might be enough to destroy their shield generators, that seem being not protected by the shields themselves (if this is the case than ISD's are done), if they are protected, still 300 ships vs. 1 should do the trick. And only Imperial fighters with Shields would stand chance against GARDIAN system, normal TIE's would be one-shoted. Ahhh. Much better now ;)
#AskEck
Could Darth Revan Take over the Galactic Empire?
Star Born Michael Hall yes.
No.
Also keep up the awesome vids man!
Turbolasers wouldn't bypass kinetic shielding, though it would have limited effectiveness - the shielding would stop the turbolaser bolt, which is tibanna gas ignited by a laser to form plasma. Since it's plasma, it would probably be more effective than normal projectiles, but it is nevertheless matter (if highly-energized matter), and thus subject to the kinetic shielding. The death star Superlaser would bypass the kinetic shielding (not that it matters - it could punch through it anyway). Alliance disruptor torpedoes would likely disable Imperial particle shielding, allowing the Systems Alliance to destroy some ISDs. I still agree with the overall assessment, but I think you're selling the alliance a bit short.
I wouldn’t count on shields mattering against Systems Alliance Dreadnoughts. We’ve already seen multiple times how energy shielding in Starwars doesn’t work on solid objects. That being said, a shot from a dreadnought could more or less tear through Star Destroyers quite easily, and far beyond the effective range of Turbo lasers.
I think you did great with the fleet battle being your only failing. You mention the alliance knows the capabilities of the enemy they are attacking. They would know that they couldn't get in a slugging match and win, but with the mass effect tech they have the edge in speed and can out run the imps in normal space. I'd see them doing as you said and draw the imps away with a long range bombardment and even letting the imps get within their own firing range, but then move off fast and start again. Hit and run tactics would be used to keep the imp fleet busy while the Normandy does its thing. This gives the alliance fleet a better survival chance and keeps the imps busy trying to nail down that pesky fleet to destroy them.
I still think you give starwars far too much credit to their physical shields. For example, in episode five when an ISD gets blown to pieces by a single meteor.
Edit: to commenters, yes it is true that the asteroid was just one of many that had impacted the shields of the star destroyer. However the fact that a single strike from a relatively slow asteroid that is roughly 100 cubic meters big Is enough to destroy the entire bridge brings question as to their actual capabilities. Remember that most asteroids are primarily loose globs of dust and rock. Of course we are discussing something absurd as is. If you did fly through an asteroid field you wouldn't even notice. I'm just sick of hearing that these starwars shields are so superior that no ballistic weapons but the absolute strongest are relevant.
Yup, thought the same thing. Same reason I think halos infinity should have won its match up
one meteor that was SEEN in the film. they had been searching the asteroid belt for hours looking for the Falcon before the one's shields gave out from repeat bombardment of large meteors, the one that took it out looking almost as big as the command deck itself. That's not even taking into account the countless micrometeors they also tanked while combing the field
It's the same thing they did in the BSG matchup. I thought it was nonsense then too. Actually, the canon is pretty clear the PHYSICAL shields of Star Wars ships are weak, at best. A single asteroid gets through. Torpedoes *routinely* bypass shields. 20kg Ferrous slugs shot at near light speed are going to punch through Imperial shields. Easily. The Thannix cannon would tear a Star Destroyer in two. Both sides' defenses would be incapable of adapting to the other. Because both of their defenses are based on stopping weapons in THEIR universe. And that factor is never taken seriously enough. So it comes down to "Star Wars be so advanced." Even though it hasn't advanced in 50,000 years....
It wasn’t a single asteroid. The ISDs were in asteroid field where they were getting pounded by thousands of those things. Even ME ship point defenses would have a hard time shooting them all down.
Exactly! ME drednaughts weapons can carve massive canyons in planets. Come on eck. The smallest drednaughts (800 m) fire a 20 kilo slug at 4025 km/s or 1.3%the speed of light. That's about 38 kiloton impact. Every 2 seconds. Per ship.
Now add in roughly 200 cruisers who's shots do about 19 kilotons every 2 seconds...
To sum up. The Death fleet can easily shrug off 4200 kilotons of force every 2 seconds? And thats only human ships and only main batteries. And assumes they dont concentrate fire. OoooKayyy...
This should much closer in my opinion. Death Fleet would still win in the long run but it wouldn't be the land slide you make it out to be.
One the death star is destroyed, the alliance could just try to exit the battle and save some of their fleet.
Once the death star is blown up you'll have a short window of confusion to act and escape, but they could do it.
The thing with me is that it is much more grounded then many other settings and performes like 40k but flipped on its head.
I love me for its grounded feats, but it does not bring the "big guns"
Yeah same thing i like ma a lot, but i cant stand the ship design and armament. They are so fucking underarmed its not even funny, they got 1 gun and point defence thats it. A fucking oni prowler, a 40k frigate or a fucking corvette has more weaponry than a god damn mass effect cruiser, even a dreadnaught.
@@ssumbra5648 thats actualy the reason why i like it so much ;D