I agree slightly with your view on socialism in Wales; it seems people (not only those supporting pro-independence) are socialists first and nationalists/patriots second. I think that once this changes, only then will independence really grow.
Socialists/Islamists the WEF/UN all three groups support ideologies that seek to impose a one- world- government on everyone. Only the "flavor" of each of the particular groups' government will be different. The result for mankind will be the same -- Enslavement/ Neo-Serfdom (enforced electronically, as China's CCP is doing now to its subjects
@@BenLlywelyn Many unthinking "socialists" in Wales are starting to vote for the populist far-right Reform party because they are totally confused and responding to their "dog-whistle" politics. This idea that Wales is dominated by the socialists in the Labour Party is rapidly becoming out of date. Through the new proportional representation system and the enlargement of the franchise to 16-18 we may see the increasing relevance of parties like The Greens, Plaid Cymru, The Lib Dems, The Conservatives and yes the loathsome Reform.
How do you think about reestablishing our own monarchy? I think having a true Welsh king (or whatever title) would be a good rallying point for Wales as a separate nation, and give us back our national foundation.
Wales was never a single kingdom with the exception of of 1057 to 1063. These days, a standard Welsh language is taught in schools, but you don't have to go too far back in time to find people in different parts of Wales, spoke Welsh in a different way. It wasn't a different dialect, or a different language, but somewhere between. Kingship of the Welsh kingdoms, wasn't the same as a direct line of succession, that concept was introduced to the British Isles by the Normans. There are probably at least 10 million people in the world (probably many more) who could claim to be of the line of ap Gruffydd. Besides, wouldn't installing a monarch be a huge retrograde step? Surely progress is made by looking forward.
@@skasteve6528 What monarchy hasn’t died out and had to find a new line? I’m writing this while watching the Eisteddfod ennoble new members of the Gorsedd, now it’s obviously just a cultural institution, but so is the Westminster House of Lords. We have nobles that could be crowned, and there’s no issue in having a different system to our neighbours, and we can change our own system as other independent countries did. If you believe in the enlightenment idea that it is for some reason backwards or regressive to have a unifying national figure in a king, then you should also support the internationalism and dissolving of the nation. Should we all be of one world one people one language? Spain reestablished their monarchy in 1975 after oppression and civil wars, and they have a French house on their throne. The new 2011 constitution of Hungary now opens with reinforcing their foundation by their King Saint Stephen.
@@skasteve6528 "Forward," your assumption that history is linear is not only ignorant but also presumptuous. "Progress," implying new ideas to be superior to older ones merely by a matter of chronology, not bothering with reasoning or justification, is not anything anyone has to accept.
@@Oera-B Gosh, you got all of that from just the words forward & progress? I don't deny being ignorant. I have a Welsh grandfather but I don't know much about Welsh current affairs, I haven't lived in the British Isles for years. That's why I watched the video, to try to learn more. That's why I replied to the original post. The poster had something interesting to say about about the cultural identity of the Welsh people. I admit my original reply comes across as a little condescending. I'm a staunch republican and suggesting exploring the possibility of a monarchy just triggers me (I also can be a bit of a D*@* at times) Siondafydd had the good grace to ignore that and reply to me courteously and gave me a couple of new topics to explore (thanks Siondafydd)
Over 50% of people voting to restore a measure of their countries sovereignty after over 700 years of integration, the attempted decimation of their culture and language and against perpetual propaganda is not nothing. Far from it. There are so many languages and civilizations that have ceased to exist after military conquest. It's a miracle that every Welsh person should be proud of that we are still here and still Welsh. Yma o Hyd.
Not really, Welsh was in a strong position up until the mid 19th century, it was used across a variety of domains, a Welsh language press existed, the population was literate and we had more speakers than many languages in Central/Eastern Europe. I suggest that you read Why Wales Never Was: The Failure of Welsh Nationalism by Dr. Simon Brooks for an alternative view. 'Yma o Hyd' is a defeatist dirge. We shouldn't be proud that we still exist, Welsh should be in a similar position to other small languages in Europe like Icelandic or Norwegian.
@@pinwyrdd Swedish and Danish are hardly comparable in numbers of speakers and cultural pull compared to English. Also I doubt those minor European colonial powers tried to attack the Icelandic or Norwegian languages like England did Wales with the blue books and Welsh Not etc. It's not comparable; let alone the migration into Cymru in the last couple centuries. If I had to guess you may not like Yma o Hyd because of your political views rather than it being a bad song. I would agree that if pride results in resting on your laurels it's not a good thing. Welsh people should be looking ahead. Cymru, Cymraeg a'r Cymry surviving is unlikely if we have another couple of centuries like the last two. Independence is the only realistic chance for Wales' future prosperity imo.
@@cymru_am_byth I think you're being myopic, I would suggest reading the book I recommended in my previous comment. Welsh was in a stronger position than many other European languages (like Finnish, Slovakian, Slovenian etc) and it could've been in a much stronger position today if the Welsh people had made different political choices 150 years ago. We had a million genuine speakers, a literate population and strong economy. Up until the late 19th century many English immigrants assimilated and their children spoke Cymraeg. Anglicisation wasn't and isn't inevitable... people in Wales still have the power to turn things around. It isn't a miracle that Welsh still exists, it should be the language of all aspects of daily life and that isn't unrealistic. Have some self respect, I agree with Ben's points that we will get nowhere with victimhood. I speak Welsh everyday and have made it the language of my home. I'm not going to settle for a pat on the head, some bilingual letters and a 'Bore da' from a local council official.
@@pinwyrdd The only thing I've really disagreed with you on is your opinion on the song Yma o Hyd and your comparison with Norway and Iceland. You mention Welsh people making different choices 150 years ago, well it's pretty hard to implement any choices if you don't have sovereignty. It's resistance to the British State that has led to positive change. I don't disagree that victimhood is in general a bad idea but stating we've come through a lot isn't victimhood. It's more a rallying call to acknowledge previous struggles and work towards a better future. In regards of Ben his videos often have very little to do with Wales and are more about pushing a right wing pro Israel ideology, attacking anything remotely left leaning. His politics are firmly American. I guess if they get people talking about Wales' future though they serve a purpose. Most of your opinions in your last comment I actually share. I'll look into the book, I just checked it out on Amazon it looks pretty good actually.
Im American an i hear you Ben to the Nth degree. Im a liberal, but i feel the modern definition of "liberal" has moved away from me. Into a place that makes no sense. The free Wales thing is a grass is always greener thing
Sometimes the grass IS greener on the other side. Wales is struggling economically within the UK so why not try something different? Ben might like to discuss the weaknesses in the Welsh nationalist arguments and his comments seem to drip with ridicule and sarcasm BUT the hard truth is that there is a strong possibility if not probability that Wales/Cymru would actually be better governed and more economically successful outside the UK and in the EU. The 25% poorest Poles are now better off that the poorest 25% Brits because the policies handed out by London have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. I hold an economics degree and I'm not a socialist and think that the dose of reality that independence would give to Wales/Cymru and its economy is one way break the cycle of decline we our suffering as the forgotten nation within the United Kingdom.
@@welshskies to be clear ,I'm not saying the grass ISN'T greener,Britain is a mess. I just mean it's one of those things where people say "if only this...things would be great." I think that's why some people get attracted to movements like this, where most of the time things are as bad or worse if it comes true. But I'm absolutely not saying they would or wouldn't be better.
And if my comments seemed to "drip with ridicule or sarcasm" I swear to you that it's unintentional. If that's how I came across then I apologize 100 %, and I will check the tone on future comments. It's hard by text, before my wife died id get in trouble with her she'd be like "What's that supposed to mean?" I'd be like I should have used emojis.
@@welshskies I' truly couldn't be more neutral. Actually I'm probably 60/40 for a free Wales because it would be interesting to see how It goes. Also as an Irish speaker I think it'd be nice to have another sovereign state with a celtic first language. Although that's just me.
Agree, no fan of joining the victim Olympics, I'd rather we die with some self level of self respect. But you need to understand how it feels to be gaslighted for so long. And please don't think that GBR represents Wales
Yes, one war against occupation, but I have read that it was the most costly war, in terms of men lost and money spent fought in medieval Europe. And that's not even going into the rebellions fought years earlier against the Romans and Norse, etc...
I’m more pro independence than I’ve ever been. However, we aren’t built for it at all. I mean, none of the major parties and I even include plaid in this, really want it. If plaid really wanted it, why aren’t they holding rallies and conferences up and down Wales all the time? All they do is campaign in their heartlands and as long as they win those seats, they’re happy. Plaid aren’t pro independence, they are pro Plaid. Until we get a REAL pro independence party in power (like Scotland had with the SNP) independence is a pointless argument here.
I dont have a dog in the fight but what does a free Wales look like? Where does the money come from? Like what are the largest Welsh industry, export, companies(that would remain in a free Wales, and not move to fucking Shropshire) Im honestly curious.
Manufacturing could be big, as long as the government doesn't continue to sell us out to "globalisation". And because of our low population density, we are an energy exporter.
A "free" Wales would be economically and diplomatically dominated by England. England has nearly 20 times the population, nearly 24 times the GDP and shares Wales' only land border. Unlike Denmark (or for that matter Scotland) Wales does not have access to large supplies of natural oil and gas, or any other rare materials that are in high demand in other economies. Welsh economic activity, therefore, will be heavily reliant on England both for imports and exports, and any trade restrictions on the Welsh border would have significant impacts. In reality an independent Wales would not be independent at all, all we would be accomplishing is throwing away our seat at the table in Westminster. Devolution is a fundamentally harmful idea that was repeatedly rejected by the Welsh people, yet forced on them anyway by Blair. Senedd elections have never achieved more than 50% turnout, and the body is widely discredited among the Welsh people, especially now. Wales doesn't need an international border with England or a play-pretend parliament to have its own national identity. "Nationalists" who say we do only seek to hurt Wales to advance their own power, because they mistakenly believe once Wales becomes independent people will actually start voting for Plaid.
Whats wrong with identity or is the future of Wales to submerge and dissolve into an England that is having a (deary me) identity crisis? Little countries punch above their weight; look at the Icelandic. Yes, the days of Offa's' dyke are over, keeping the Walia out, surname lists for Ludlow for example for the 1400's, but identity is important and this particular identity has been long in the making.
Goodness gracious, what happened to the prophecies "Arthur will return as a raven" and "The Red Dragon will be wounded by The White Dragon but will rise and Kill the White Dragon"? And why did you just start 750 years ago, are you the only Welshman denying The Age of Arthur? The Age of Arthur is typically creddited as being between 350 and 650 AD, so Wales's history starts at 350 AD or before. Don't forget, these prophecies apply to the whole of Britain, not just Wales, so the independance of Wales as a small isolated nation is not part of the bigger picture that the prophecies project.
Cymro yma. The Marxist thing was a shock to me, I'm a nationalist and proudly believe in an independent Cymru. And, I've never considered it to be a part of my beliefs, I have no clue where people are getting that. I 100% agree with you that the motivations for independence and the political and emotional climate is totally different now. I respectfully think you've mistaken loyalism for fear. From my own point of view I think after Owain Glyndwr people lost faith in the idea of the Cymraeg ever being free, how are they ever going to fight an enemy so powerful. The disadvantage we've always had is that we are on England's doorstep. We've always been too easy to quash. My own motivations and feelings towards independence is more of a self preservation these days. The rise of immigrant populations in England that even England can't cope with doesn't bode well for Wales. The Welsh language and culture is clinging on as it is. Its no longer an oppressor/oppressed view for me it's an extinction issue. Even if the immigrant populations don't threaten Wales like England. The influx of English people fleeing the immigrant crisis and opting for a cheaper more affordable life here can't be ignored. Before anyone says anything. I'm not anti-english but there are plenty of English people who willfully ignore our language and culture and go out of their way not to engage with it. You have a fair point about maturity. Cymru definitely has a problem with looking backwards instead of forward. I think the reason we are still part of the UK is because we don't look forward.
I visited wales last September and it was unexpectedly my favorite country I’ve ever visited. Lovely scenery and friendly people who wanted to assist me because they could tell I wanted to find the welsh language. I heard so many bad things about the welsh, but it wasn’t true. Very lovely bunch. I was surprised to see signs of nationalism there because I was told they were bound to England, but I think welsh independence is going to rise in the coming generation like it did for Scotland. The Tory party is now extinct in wales and labour is hanging itself now.
After centuries of wars being fought amongst houses, clans and countries who share a small island, it seems nice that Great Britain is united in one country, while recognising at the same time the national distinctiveness of the three nations, and their right to devolution of localised powers. It seems wrong to dissolve this Union, I think a better Union can and should be made, whether by further devolution or a more ground up reconstruction. That’s my two cents anyway
Is this national maturity you speak of similar to the trends in Ireland since the turn of the century? An "and" instead of "against" sort of nationalism (to name but one part)?
I've recently been at odds with a fellow on LinkedIn who goes around liberal arts universities teaching how it's easier than one thinks to start a revolution. I suggested that revolutions are never a good thing because people tend to get hurt, and that change should come instead from evolution. Mind you, I think that dialectic in Wales is evident from the tale of Nennius, where an eternal battle the red dragon of the Britons and the white dragon of the Saxons was fought over the mountains of Snowdonia. Incidentally, I was once minded - back in the 1990s - to join Plaid Cymru, but I was put off by the socialism of their message. That's the problem with manifestos - it's very difficult to get everything you want and you have to compromise to be in the group, or else fight sometimes overwhelming factions to get your ideas across. I'm not necessarily right-wing - I'm a trans woman, for Goddess' sakes - but I do believe in tradition and pulling people up to the chance of equal prosperity rather than down to the certainty of equal poverty which is, I believe, the unintended consequence of socialist ideals.
Yes, starting a revolution is neither easy nor predictable. Innocents end up in bad places. Interesting to hear from a Trans person a disagreement with socialiam. Diolch / thanks.
@@BenLlywelyn seems to me the trans debate vis-a-vis socialism is perhaps indicative of a wider point, to whit, expectations. You see, it seems to me people expect trans people to hold certain views and be of a template, which I've never held with - and neither do I hold with the stereotype of the Welshman as this bolshy, hen-pecked dwarf with a coracle and a Davy lamp, even if stamped as such by Dylan Thomas, Phil Carradice, Ewart Alexander and the Old Contemptibles might be tempted to portray (to the gallery). You see, mine is a far longer view, stretching back into the mists of the Iron age and beyond, where the whole of Britain up to Rheged and the Firth of Forth was Cymro, even if the various tribes were often at loggerheads.
But independence for what? A piece of paper is not with fighting for. If you want an independent nation, you need to strengthen what that nation is and promote the true aspects and culture of the nation, not just accepting whatever is within a specific side of an imaginary line.
@@siondafydd Sorry, but your comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!! Care to explain? All I’m saying is that it’s normal for nations to be sovereign states. And Cymru, England and Scotland being nations, should be sovereign states.
@siondafydd I agree absolutely. We have nothing to offer I'm afraid, oh, apart from the export of cheese so I'm told. I love my Nation I really do, but Independence shouldn't mean then having the freedom to join another state system, the EU, in order to become dependent & "oppressed" yet again. We should be able to stand alone with strength in all aspects, be it language, culture, employment, economically etc.
@@Gilboy63 But what is a nation? Lines on a map are just imaginary. Sadly right now, Cymru is not ready for independence, because the majority of the people are English, and as this video shows our politics is also English.
I believe an independent Wales would only work if it had some sort of practical advantage such as being a Tax Haven like the Isle of Man or the Republic of Ireland. Some of the Welsh nationalist go on with a lot nonsense about a mythical heritage of dragons and druids, but I believe in modern liberal country with a strong economy. I also don't believe in victimhood achieving much. The Republic of Ireland has been totally independent of the UK since the 1940s but there is still a tendency to blame the British of yesteryear for today's problems. It doesn't work and stops today's problems being solved.
Your thumbnail caught my attention -- Stayed for the video. Good review of the woman's statement. Welsh independence? I do not think it is a practical idea because Wales lacks the resources to be totally independent. In any event, with all of this foreign immigration; neither England or Wales or Scotland are going to be the same. Those new residents don't give a d@mn about Wales, the Welsh or for that matter Christianity (the backbone of European culture) Subscribed.
I think it’s important to meditate upon our name of Cymru. We forget that Cymru/Cymry is a shorthand for Brythoniaid Combrogos meaning something akin to Alliance of Native Britons. When we consider what that full name implies we see a definition for a people who had to come together in a form of equality in order to rescue what was left of an ancient identity. Viewed through this optic we can see how socialism may have seemed a fit for the people of Wales. It’s true to say that a Welsh identity is a great leveller between people, as many of us feel outside of the British class system and, in my own case, view it scornfully. We must also remember the fact that prior to to the Act of Union in 1707 the English did not identify with the word British or Briton. These words had previously been the exclusive cultural property of Wales and the Welsh. The Act of Union took an important part of our identity from us. We have always had a fight of sorts for our identity to exist. Not all wars are fought on battle fields and not all revolutions are violent.
@@BenLlywelyn the English only really started using the name Welsh after the act of union. There’s a book I read called Snowdonia: A Historical Anthology which is a collection of diary entries by English visitors of Snowdonia. I noticed how it was only the later entries post 1707 where the ethnonym Welsh was used and all entries prior exclusively used British to describe us.
The best thing l can wish for Wales is its people prosper. The truth is England subsidizes Wales and the other Celtic nations and has done for decades because they are poorer. The average public spend per head is currently £12227 in England compared with £13967 in Wales. It’s even higher in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The real losers are the people in Northern England who have a similar socioeconomic profile to Wales but do not enjoy the same level of public services.
@@BenLlywelyn I think they are Brazilian, that is part of Brazilian flag. But the name is strawberi dzhely which is 🥤 jelly in what, bulgarian I think so maybe they Are one of the Bulgarian besarabian Brazilians that kind of interesting ethnic group in Brazil back when they were searching for Europeans to settle Brazil, they had all the Bulgarian breast arabians come.That's what I think they're talking about
I, as an Anglo/Saxon, and not English. The Normans and plantagenets, Normans by another name, invaded Wales/ Cymru. Also, Ireland/ Eire and also made up a load of the Scottish lairds! I think if Wales left the Union, you would quickly go bankrupt! I might be wrong, but I believe Wales gets a lot of finances from England. And so does Scotland and Northern Ireland.
@@BenLlywelyn I'm a union guy and I've actually been arrested on animal rights things. I've manned phone banks marched etc. I have so.skin in the game so it's both absurd and irksome to have some pampered 20 year old start screaming MAGA at me( I wasn't, but even if I were , it's my right to support whoever I want) for daring to suggest that sports are divided by physicality not identity. Not an issue I actually give a shit about, it's a tempest in a teapot distraction, but nonetheless....
@@BenLlywelyn hey Mr. Llewellyn, I just wanted to say one thing, I'm not trying to be pedantic (yes I am) but I'm pretty certain the term is "diaMETRICALLY OPPOSED" I suppose "dialectically opposed" isn't wrong. But the term that's in common everyday use is "diametrically opposed"
But the proud britons refused to speak english in the past, even after norman conquest of Gwynedd (Powys was already in the hands of the english and other conquerors).And Tim Berners Lee looks saxon even if he had some old brythonic blood, etc.
Why lose the very real synergy that comes with being 'United'? An independent WaIes would be an economic disaster, and England and Scotland would lose by it too. Let's appreciate and value what we have.
@@Lagolop YES. I love barley. I feel like it's a very underused grain. Well, at least they're in America, I dont know about the rest of the world. They are toothsome, which I like. I've been a vegetarian since I was 12 there's pretty much not a vegetarian stew or soup, invented that I have not made cause the sad fact of the matter. It's 36 years later. I still find myself craving meat which is weird, right? I stopped eating meat when the smith's broke up
@@FrithonaHrududu02127 Barley is underrated. We make out barley soup with leeks and chicken broth (so not veg). You can use vegetable broth if you want. We are Canadian BTW.
Part of the problem with this Marxist religion is that at universities around the world they're pretty much the only group treating their university as some "terrain of struggle", to be assaulted in a systematic, organized way. So they have the tendency to displace at least the academics least inclined to struggle (perhaps because they're more driven by inquisitiveness - so scholarliness, really - than anyone else). The result is that if a campus comes under pressure from the bean counters, all the interesting lecturers with minds of their own are the ones who get pushed out; and even in better times, things are deliberately skewed so that being "political" gets distorted into always being at least somewhat Marxist. By bombing the terrain to obliteration, they're able to roll into the ruins they create, and become "what everyone knows". There's nothing more powerful than becoming "what's normal". We all have some tendency toward preserving things "they way they've always been" (I think it's called Conservatism? ... so the Marxist project is to become the Conservatives? ... Only I suppose they propose to get themselves bogged down in different mud.) As far as Wales goes, and in terms of how you conclude, this might mean that what the entire world should be hoping for is some maturity? It's not a uniquely Welsh problem, but the way in which it contradicts the truth in Wales makes it stand out more there than in places where it's easier to get away with not having to think much to survive the ritual of university "education" . Well for the lazy, I suppose. You'll always get some weirdos who insist of pursuing an actual education, and not just try to pass through the obstacle course with as little risk as possible.
@@BenLlywelyn Your smurfy eyebrows won me over. Also, I'm sick of the rise of the victimhood/nationalism/neo-Marxism plague. I live in South Korea, by the way. Nationalist victimhood is strong here.
i was really surprised when i found out how far left the welsh independence movement is same with the Scottish and Basque and Catalan movements. you would assume such movements would be more right wing .if something like this can become hijacked by the far left there isn't a lot of hope for western Europe in general. i think what happened was that back in the cold war or a little before that period Stalin promised to help the independence movement if they adopted communism back then communism was quite different from modern style wokness so the concept of left wing nationalism made more sense at the time since race was not an issue and it was all about economics. the social policy could be anything usually more conservative but not always .but nowadays in the west there is a new form of leftism so called wokness and the west European left mindlessly adopted this ideology without taking the voters opinions into account. and its really not compatible with nationalism its the total opposite. but these politicians don't have any competition so they can just do what they want.
I agree slightly with your view on socialism in Wales; it seems people (not only those supporting pro-independence) are socialists first and nationalists/patriots second. I think that once this changes, only then will independence really grow.
Yes. Many put their nation below their socialist views
Socialists/Islamists the
WEF/UN all three groups
support ideologies that
seek to impose a one-
world- government on
everyone.
Only the "flavor" of each
of the particular groups'
government will be
different. The result for
mankind will be the
same -- Enslavement/
Neo-Serfdom (enforced
electronically, as China's
CCP is doing now to its
subjects
@@BenLlywelyn Many unthinking "socialists" in Wales are starting to vote for the populist far-right Reform party because they are totally confused and responding to their "dog-whistle" politics. This idea that Wales is dominated by the socialists in the Labour Party is rapidly becoming out of date. Through the new proportional representation system and the enlargement of the franchise to 16-18 we may see the increasing relevance of parties like The Greens, Plaid Cymru, The Lib Dems, The Conservatives and yes the loathsome Reform.
How do you think about reestablishing our own monarchy? I think having a true Welsh king (or whatever title) would be a good rallying point for Wales as a separate nation, and give us back our national foundation.
Wales was never a single kingdom with the exception of of 1057 to 1063. These days, a standard Welsh language is taught in schools, but you don't have to go too far back in time to find people in different parts of Wales, spoke Welsh in a different way. It wasn't a different dialect, or a different language, but somewhere between.
Kingship of the Welsh kingdoms, wasn't the same as a direct line of succession, that concept was introduced to the British Isles by the Normans. There are probably at least 10 million people in the world (probably many more) who could claim to be of the line of ap Gruffydd.
Besides, wouldn't installing a monarch be a huge retrograde step? Surely progress is made by looking forward.
@@skasteve6528 What monarchy hasn’t died out and had to find a new line? I’m writing this while watching the Eisteddfod ennoble new members of the Gorsedd, now it’s obviously just a cultural institution, but so is the Westminster House of Lords. We have nobles that could be crowned, and there’s no issue in having a different system to our neighbours, and we can change our own system as other independent countries did.
If you believe in the enlightenment idea that it is for some reason backwards or regressive to have a unifying national figure in a king, then you should also support the internationalism and dissolving of the nation. Should we all be of one world one people one language?
Spain reestablished their monarchy in 1975 after oppression and civil wars, and they have a French house on their throne. The new 2011 constitution of Hungary now opens with reinforcing their foundation by their King Saint Stephen.
@@skasteve6528 "Forward," your assumption that history is linear is not only ignorant but also presumptuous. "Progress," implying new ideas to be superior to older ones merely by a matter of chronology, not bothering with reasoning or justification, is not anything anyone has to accept.
@@Oera-B Gosh, you got all of that from just the words forward & progress?
I don't deny being ignorant. I have a Welsh grandfather but I don't know much about Welsh current affairs, I haven't lived in the British Isles for years. That's why I watched the video, to try to learn more. That's why I replied to the original post. The poster had something interesting to say about about the cultural identity of the Welsh people.
I admit my original reply comes across as a little condescending. I'm a staunch republican and suggesting exploring the possibility of a monarchy just triggers me (I also can be a bit of a D*@* at times) Siondafydd had the good grace to ignore that and reply to me courteously and gave me a couple of new topics to explore (thanks Siondafydd)
We have our heritage, our poets and composers and culture and our language - you cannot take that away from us !
Ben were you is swansea last friday i think i sore you coming out sainsbury on the crossing. i was coming out of the petrol station...
Yes.
Could you do classes in the Cornish language? We need to keep this going. I speak welsh. I teach my friends and family
I would need to learn Cornish first. Meur ras.
Over 50% of people voting to restore a measure of their countries sovereignty after over 700 years of integration, the attempted decimation of their culture and language and against perpetual propaganda is not nothing. Far from it. There are so many languages and civilizations that have ceased to exist after military conquest. It's a miracle that every Welsh person should be proud of that we are still here and still Welsh. Yma o Hyd.
Not really, Welsh was in a strong position up until the mid 19th century, it was used across a variety of domains, a Welsh language press existed, the population was literate and we had more speakers than many languages in Central/Eastern Europe. I suggest that you read Why Wales Never Was: The Failure of Welsh Nationalism by Dr. Simon Brooks for an alternative view. 'Yma o Hyd' is a defeatist dirge. We shouldn't be proud that we still exist, Welsh should be in a similar position to other small languages in Europe like Icelandic or Norwegian.
@@pinwyrdd Swedish and Danish are hardly comparable in numbers of speakers and cultural pull compared to English. Also I doubt those minor European colonial powers tried to attack the Icelandic or Norwegian languages like England did Wales with the blue books and Welsh Not etc. It's not comparable; let alone the migration into Cymru in the last couple centuries.
If I had to guess you may not like Yma o Hyd because of your political views rather than it being a bad song.
I would agree that if pride results in resting on your laurels it's not a good thing. Welsh people should be looking ahead. Cymru, Cymraeg a'r Cymry surviving is unlikely if we have another couple of centuries like the last two.
Independence is the only realistic chance for Wales' future prosperity imo.
@@cymru_am_byth I think you're being myopic, I would suggest reading the book I recommended in my previous comment. Welsh was in a stronger position than many other European languages (like Finnish, Slovakian, Slovenian etc) and it could've been in a much stronger position today if the Welsh people had made different political choices 150 years ago. We had a million genuine speakers, a literate population and strong economy. Up until the late 19th century many English immigrants assimilated and their children spoke Cymraeg. Anglicisation wasn't and isn't inevitable... people in Wales still have the power to turn things around. It isn't a miracle that Welsh still exists, it should be the language of all aspects of daily life and that isn't unrealistic. Have some self respect, I agree with Ben's points that we will get nowhere with victimhood. I speak Welsh everyday and have made it the language of my home. I'm not going to settle for a pat on the head, some bilingual letters and a 'Bore da' from a local council official.
@@pinwyrdd The only thing I've really disagreed with you on is your opinion on the song Yma o Hyd and your comparison with Norway and Iceland.
You mention Welsh people making different choices 150 years ago, well it's pretty hard to implement any choices if you don't have sovereignty. It's resistance to the British State that has led to positive change. I don't disagree that victimhood is in general a bad idea but stating we've come through a lot isn't victimhood. It's more a rallying call to acknowledge previous struggles and work towards a better future.
In regards of Ben his videos often have very little to do with Wales and are more about pushing a right wing pro Israel ideology, attacking anything remotely left leaning. His politics are firmly American. I guess if they get people talking about Wales' future though they serve a purpose.
Most of your opinions in your last comment I actually share. I'll look into the book, I just checked it out on Amazon it looks pretty good actually.
Merely still being here is not much of an accomplishment. We need to do stuff.
Im American an i hear you Ben to the Nth degree. Im a liberal, but i feel the modern definition of "liberal" has moved away from me. Into a place that makes no sense. The free Wales thing is a grass is always greener thing
Sometimes the grass IS greener on the other side. Wales is struggling economically within the UK so why not try something different? Ben might like to discuss the weaknesses in the Welsh nationalist arguments and his comments seem to drip with ridicule and sarcasm BUT the hard truth is that there is a strong possibility if not probability that Wales/Cymru would actually be better governed and more economically successful outside the UK and in the EU. The 25% poorest Poles are now better off that the poorest 25% Brits because the policies handed out by London have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. I hold an economics degree and I'm not a socialist and think that the dose of reality that independence would give to Wales/Cymru and its economy is one way break the cycle of decline we our suffering as the forgotten nation within the United Kingdom.
@@welshskies to be clear ,I'm not saying the grass ISN'T greener,Britain is a mess. I just mean it's one of those things where people say "if only this...things would be great." I think that's why some people get attracted to movements like this, where most of the time things are as bad or worse if it comes true. But I'm absolutely not saying they would or wouldn't be better.
And if my comments seemed to "drip with ridicule or sarcasm" I swear to you that it's unintentional. If that's how I came across then I apologize 100 %, and I will check the tone on future comments. It's hard by text, before my wife died id get in trouble with her she'd be like "What's that supposed to mean?" I'd be like I should have used emojis.
@@welshskies I' truly couldn't be more neutral. Actually I'm probably 60/40 for a free Wales because it would be interesting to see how It goes. Also as an Irish speaker I think it'd be nice to have another sovereign state with a celtic first language. Although that's just me.
@@welshskies sorry if I came off disrespectfullly.
Hear hear 👏👏👏
You have reached the perspective I already had in 2020. We’re increasingly on the same page.
Agree, no fan of joining the victim Olympics, I'd rather we die with some self level of self respect. But you need to understand how it feels to be gaslighted for so long. And please don't think that GBR represents Wales
Self respect is a good goal.
Yes, one war against occupation, but I have read that it was the most costly war, in terms of men lost and money spent fought in medieval Europe. And that's not even going into the rebellions fought years earlier against the Romans and Norse, etc...
Yes, the Welsh conquest drove England bankrupt and plunged it into near anarchy for decades.
I’m Welsh part of the under class tho my family are farmers but when we go to south wales we are treated as foreigners and bullied throughout.
Welsh don't bully, they mischief.
I wish the world would appreciate how great the Welsh sing ... In their mines, churches, showers, pubs. 🎶.l... ❤ 🐉
I’m more pro independence than I’ve ever been. However, we aren’t built for it at all. I mean, none of the major parties and I even include plaid in this, really want it.
If plaid really wanted it, why aren’t they holding rallies and conferences up and down Wales all the time? All they do is campaign in their heartlands and as long as they win those seats, they’re happy. Plaid aren’t pro independence, they are pro Plaid.
Until we get a REAL pro independence party in power (like Scotland had with the SNP) independence is a pointless argument here.
We need transport links for rallies. :)
@@BenLlywelynthey’ve spent like a quadrillion pounds on the metro and Cardiff has a shiny new bus station. The world looks at us with envy. 😂
I dont have a dog in the fight but what does a free Wales look like? Where does the money come from? Like what are the largest Welsh industry, export, companies(that would remain in a free Wales, and not move to fucking Shropshire) Im honestly curious.
it could be great there are a lot of successful smaller countries like Denmark
@@belstar1128 Wales isn't Denmark though.
Manufacturing could be big, as long as the government doesn't continue to sell us out to "globalisation". And because of our low population density, we are an energy exporter.
A "free" Wales would be economically and diplomatically dominated by England. England has nearly 20 times the population, nearly 24 times the GDP and shares Wales' only land border. Unlike Denmark (or for that matter Scotland) Wales does not have access to large supplies of natural oil and gas, or any other rare materials that are in high demand in other economies. Welsh economic activity, therefore, will be heavily reliant on England both for imports and exports, and any trade restrictions on the Welsh border would have significant impacts.
In reality an independent Wales would not be independent at all, all we would be accomplishing is throwing away our seat at the table in Westminster. Devolution is a fundamentally harmful idea that was repeatedly rejected by the Welsh people, yet forced on them anyway by Blair. Senedd elections have never achieved more than 50% turnout, and the body is widely discredited among the Welsh people, especially now. Wales doesn't need an international border with England or a play-pretend parliament to have its own national identity. "Nationalists" who say we do only seek to hurt Wales to advance their own power, because they mistakenly believe once Wales becomes independent people will actually start voting for Plaid.
@@FrithonaHrududu02127 what are you trying to suggest?
Whats wrong with identity or is the future of Wales to submerge and dissolve into an England that is having a (deary me) identity crisis? Little countries punch above their weight; look at the Icelandic. Yes, the days of Offa's' dyke are over, keeping the Walia out, surname lists for Ludlow for example for the 1400's, but identity is important and this particular identity has been long in the making.
I hope Welsh Nationalists find a way to grow past fetishising social justice and identity groups - as that is what is killing Wales.
Goodness gracious, what happened to the prophecies "Arthur will return as a raven" and "The Red Dragon will be wounded by The White Dragon but will rise and Kill the White Dragon"? And why did you just start 750 years ago, are you the only Welshman denying The Age of Arthur? The Age of Arthur is typically creddited as being between 350 and 650 AD, so Wales's history starts at 350 AD or before. Don't forget, these prophecies apply to the whole of Britain, not just Wales, so the independance of Wales as a small isolated nation is not part of the bigger picture that the prophecies project.
What if it stsrts with a piece of Britain?
Ah, Ben, you know the singer Gwylim Bowen Rhys 7:44 🤗🤗🤗!
Ydw.
@@BenLlywelyn Gwych Iawn 👏👏👏!!!
24:44 In Welsh politics it is always fresher year in university… 🤔. I genuinely believe it is unfixable in my lifetime.
Gad inni obeithio fod ffordd ymlaen.
Let us hope there is a way forward.
This is very quotable.
I may be stealing that!
Fantastic analysis
Cymro yma. The Marxist thing was a shock to me, I'm a nationalist and proudly believe in an independent Cymru. And, I've never considered it to be a part of my beliefs, I have no clue where people are getting that. I 100% agree with you that the motivations for independence and the political and emotional climate is totally different now. I respectfully think you've mistaken loyalism for fear. From my own point of view I think after Owain Glyndwr people lost faith in the idea of the Cymraeg ever being free, how are they ever going to fight an enemy so powerful. The disadvantage we've always had is that we are on England's doorstep. We've always been too easy to quash. My own motivations and feelings towards independence is more of a self preservation these days. The rise of immigrant populations in England that even England can't cope with doesn't bode well for Wales. The Welsh language and culture is clinging on as it is. Its no longer an oppressor/oppressed view for me it's an extinction issue. Even if the immigrant populations don't threaten Wales like England. The influx of English people fleeing the immigrant crisis and opting for a cheaper more affordable life here can't be ignored. Before anyone says anything. I'm not anti-english but there are plenty of English people who willfully ignore our language and culture and go out of their way not to engage with it.
You have a fair point about maturity. Cymru definitely has a problem with looking backwards instead of forward. I think the reason we are still part of the UK is because we don't look forward.
England is changing fast. It will slowly, slowly, cause the other nations on the islands to change.
Ive heard "diametrically opposed"
I visited wales last September and it was unexpectedly my favorite country I’ve ever visited. Lovely scenery and friendly people who wanted to assist me because they could tell I wanted to find the welsh language. I heard so many bad things about the welsh, but it wasn’t true. Very lovely bunch. I was surprised to see signs of nationalism there because I was told they were bound to England, but I think welsh independence is going to rise in the coming generation like it did for Scotland. The Tory party is now extinct in wales and labour is hanging itself now.
If you make an effort to adopt the Welsh culture in anyway there is always a good welcome.
@@BenLlywelyndiolch
After centuries of wars being fought amongst houses, clans and countries who share a small island, it seems nice that Great Britain is united in one country, while recognising at the same time the national distinctiveness of the three nations, and their right to devolution of localised powers. It seems wrong to dissolve this Union, I think a better Union can and should be made, whether by further devolution or a more ground up reconstruction. That’s my two cents anyway
The problem is that England has no devolution and so British Laws become English Laws.
Is this national maturity you speak of similar to the trends in Ireland since the turn of the century? An "and" instead of "against" sort of nationalism (to name but one part)?
Ireland seems to have sold its soul for globalisation. So I am not sure about your question.
I've recently been at odds with a fellow on LinkedIn who goes around liberal arts universities teaching how it's easier than one thinks to start a revolution. I suggested that revolutions are never a good thing because people tend to get hurt, and that change should come instead from evolution. Mind you, I think that dialectic in Wales is evident from the tale of Nennius, where an eternal battle the red dragon of the Britons and the white dragon of the Saxons was fought over the mountains of Snowdonia. Incidentally, I was once minded - back in the 1990s - to join Plaid Cymru, but I was put off by the socialism of their message. That's the problem with manifestos - it's very difficult to get everything you want and you have to compromise to be in the group, or else fight sometimes overwhelming factions to get your ideas across. I'm not necessarily right-wing - I'm a trans woman, for Goddess' sakes - but I do believe in tradition and pulling people up to the chance of equal prosperity rather than down to the certainty of equal poverty which is, I believe, the unintended consequence of socialist ideals.
Yes, starting a revolution is neither easy nor predictable. Innocents end up in bad places. Interesting to hear from a Trans person a disagreement with socialiam. Diolch / thanks.
@@BenLlywelyn seems to me the trans debate vis-a-vis socialism is perhaps indicative of a wider point, to whit, expectations. You see, it seems to me people expect trans people to hold certain views and be of a template, which I've never held with - and neither do I hold with the stereotype of the Welshman as this bolshy, hen-pecked dwarf with a coracle and a Davy lamp, even if stamped as such by Dylan Thomas, Phil Carradice, Ewart Alexander and the Old Contemptibles might be tempted to portray (to the gallery). You see, mine is a far longer view, stretching back into the mists of the Iron age and beyond, where the whole of Britain up to Rheged and the Firth of Forth was Cymro, even if the various tribes were often at loggerheads.
Independence is an end in itself. You don’t need reasons for wanting it. However let’s be honest, as a nation, we are pretty sad, pathetic even.
It can change, but needs work.
But independence for what? A piece of paper is not with fighting for. If you want an independent nation, you need to strengthen what that nation is and promote the true aspects and culture of the nation, not just accepting whatever is within a specific side of an imaginary line.
@@siondafydd Sorry, but your comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!! Care to explain? All I’m saying is that it’s normal for nations to be sovereign states. And Cymru, England and Scotland being nations, should be sovereign states.
@siondafydd I agree absolutely. We have nothing to offer I'm afraid, oh, apart from the export of cheese so I'm told. I love my Nation I really do, but Independence shouldn't mean then having the freedom to join another state system, the EU, in order to become dependent & "oppressed" yet again. We should be able to stand alone with strength in all aspects, be it language, culture, employment, economically etc.
@@Gilboy63 But what is a nation? Lines on a map are just imaginary. Sadly right now, Cymru is not ready for independence, because the majority of the people are English, and as this video shows our politics is also English.
I believe an independent Wales would only work if it had some sort of practical advantage such as being a Tax Haven like the Isle of Man or the Republic of Ireland. Some of the Welsh nationalist go on with a lot nonsense about a mythical heritage of dragons and druids, but I believe in modern liberal country with a strong economy. I also don't believe in victimhood achieving much. The Republic of Ireland has been totally independent of the UK since the 1940s but there is still a tendency to blame the British of yesteryear for today's problems. It doesn't work and stops today's problems being solved.
Victimhood is a big problem in Cymru, and a psychological block we will have to overcome to prosper.
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WE IN WALES ARE VERY PROUD OF OUR FLAG SND OUR NATION
Thank you for sprinkling in some facts.
I would say Sprink You very much, but that would sound perverse.
@@BenLlywelyn Now I am very thankful that I am not a native speaker. 🫣
Your always gonna have people who think that way
🏴
Am I right in thinking that the printing of the bible helped to unify Wales because the nation then had a standardised spelling?
I can see it did some of that.
the name Quisling comes to mind
Quisling was a man who hated my religion.
@@BenLlywelyn and his country
Your thumbnail caught my attention -- Stayed for the video. Good review of the woman's statement.
Welsh independence? I do not think it is a practical idea because Wales lacks the resources to be totally independent.
In any event, with all of this foreign immigration; neither England or Wales or Scotland are going to be the same.
Those new residents don't give a d@mn about Wales, the Welsh or for that matter Christianity (the backbone of
European culture)
Subscribed.
Thank you for joining the journey.
I think it’s important to meditate upon our name of Cymru. We forget that Cymru/Cymry is a shorthand for Brythoniaid Combrogos meaning something akin to Alliance of Native Britons. When we consider what that full name implies we see a definition for a people who had to come together in a form of equality in order to rescue what was left of an ancient identity. Viewed through this optic we can see how socialism may have seemed a fit for the people of Wales. It’s true to say that a Welsh identity is a great leveller between people, as many of us feel outside of the British class system and, in my own case, view it scornfully.
We must also remember the fact that prior to to the Act of Union in 1707 the English did not identify with the word British or Briton. These words had previously been the exclusive cultural property of Wales and the Welsh. The Act of Union took an important part of our identity from us. We have always had a fight of sorts for our identity to exist. Not all wars are fought on battle fields and not all revolutions are violent.
Even in Gladstone's Era, the speeches in Parliament spoke of English not Britons. The Welsh called themselves British, not the English.
@@BenLlywelyn the English only really started using the name Welsh after the act of union. There’s a book I read called Snowdonia: A Historical Anthology which is a collection of diary entries by English visitors of Snowdonia. I noticed how it was only the later entries post 1707 where the ethnonym Welsh was used and all entries prior exclusively used British to describe us.
The best thing l can wish for Wales is its people prosper. The truth is England subsidizes Wales and the other Celtic nations and has done for decades because they are poorer. The average public spend per head is currently £12227 in England compared with £13967 in Wales. It’s even higher in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The real losers are the people in Northern England who have a similar socioeconomic profile to Wales but do not enjoy the same level of public services.
Northern Ireland is a grove of brambles I leave to overgrow rather than treaf through it
We need a National language like Wales have Welsh And we need apolitical minds
In what country?
Where?
@@BenLlywelyn I think they are Brazilian, that is part of Brazilian flag. But the name is strawberi dzhely which is 🥤 jelly in what, bulgarian I think so maybe they Are one of the Bulgarian besarabian Brazilians that kind of interesting ethnic group in Brazil back when they were searching for Europeans to settle Brazil, they had all the Bulgarian breast arabians come.That's what I think they're talking about
@@StrawberyDzhely are you a Brazilian Bessarabian Bulgarian?
@@BenLlywelyn Brazil
Comment for the algo
I, as an Anglo/Saxon, and not English. The Normans and plantagenets, Normans by another name, invaded Wales/ Cymru. Also, Ireland/ Eire and also made up a load of the Scottish lairds! I think if Wales left the Union, you would quickly go bankrupt! I might be wrong, but I believe Wales gets a lot of finances from England. And so does Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The need for economic output creates economic output.
True
...that it doesn't turn into the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic of Cymrustan, I dare presume 😂
Let us hope for better!
I think SOME stuff has changed.
Yes. Others the same.
@@BenLlywelyn I'm a union guy and I've actually been arrested on animal rights things. I've manned phone banks marched etc. I have so.skin in the game so it's both absurd and irksome to have some pampered 20 year old start screaming MAGA at me( I wasn't, but even if I were , it's my right to support whoever I want) for daring to suggest that sports are divided by physicality not identity. Not an issue I actually give a shit about, it's a tempest in a teapot distraction, but nonetheless....
@@BenLlywelyn hey Mr. Llewellyn, I just wanted to say one thing, I'm not trying to be pedantic (yes I am) but I'm pretty certain the term is "diaMETRICALLY OPPOSED" I suppose "dialectically opposed" isn't wrong. But the term that's in common everyday use is "diametrically opposed"
Certain sayings like "history tells us so" are like no nothing throwaway phrases.
But the proud britons refused to speak english in the past, even after norman conquest of Gwynedd (Powys was already in the hands of the english and other conquerors).And Tim Berners Lee looks saxon even if he had some old brythonic blood, etc.
Welsh has held suprisingly well.
Ai spus adevărul.
Multumesc om bun.
Why lose the very real synergy that comes with being 'United'? An independent WaIes would be an economic disaster, and England and Scotland would lose by it too. Let's appreciate and value what we have.
England is a binfire at the moment. Are they going to stop? I don't know.
@@BenLlywelynI don't really get your point here, Ben. What is your point?
I just make videos.
That they grow leeks?
We do.
@@BenLlywelyn is that like a known thing? I too grow leeks in Boston but I hate cleaning them.
Leek and barley soup ...
@@Lagolop YES. I love barley. I feel like it's a very underused grain. Well, at least they're in America, I dont know about the rest of the world. They are toothsome, which I like. I've been a vegetarian since I was 12 there's pretty much not a vegetarian stew or soup, invented that I have not made cause the sad fact of the matter. It's 36 years later. I still find myself craving meat which is weird, right? I stopped eating meat when the smith's broke up
@@FrithonaHrududu02127 Barley is underrated. We make out barley soup with leeks and chicken broth (so not veg). You can use vegetable broth if you want. We are Canadian BTW.
Middle Easten ethnicity does not mean you are Welsh, stop trying to divide us by political ideology.
Huh?
tywysog newydd yma.
Y gwir yn erbyn y byd
heddwch🕊
You're talking arse Ben
Thanks.
Benjiman
Part of the problem with this Marxist religion is that at universities around the world they're pretty much the only group treating their university as some "terrain of struggle", to be assaulted in a systematic, organized way. So they have the tendency to displace at least the academics least inclined to struggle (perhaps because they're more driven by inquisitiveness - so scholarliness, really - than anyone else). The result is that if a campus comes under pressure from the bean counters, all the interesting lecturers with minds of their own are the ones who get pushed out; and even in better times, things are deliberately skewed so that being "political" gets distorted into always being at least somewhat Marxist.
By bombing the terrain to obliteration, they're able to roll into the ruins they create, and become "what everyone knows". There's nothing more powerful than becoming "what's normal". We all have some tendency toward preserving things "they way they've always been" (I think it's called Conservatism? ... so the Marxist project is to become the Conservatives? ... Only I suppose they propose to get themselves bogged down in different mud.)
As far as Wales goes, and in terms of how you conclude, this might mean that what the entire world should be hoping for is some maturity? It's not a uniquely Welsh problem, but the way in which it contradicts the truth in Wales makes it stand out more there than in places where it's easier to get away with not having to think much to survive the ritual of university "education" . Well for the lazy, I suppose. You'll always get some weirdos who insist of pursuing an actual education, and not just try to pass through the obstacle course with as little risk as possible.
The number of university professord who are Marxist is off the charts - something has got to change so folk get an unbiased education.
I'm finally starting to like you
What inflated the smiley face balloon?
@@BenLlywelyn Your smurfy eyebrows won me over. Also, I'm sick of the rise of the victimhood/nationalism/neo-Marxism plague. I live in South Korea, by the way. Nationalist victimhood is strong here.
i was really surprised when i found out how far left the welsh independence movement is same with the Scottish and Basque and Catalan movements. you would assume such movements would be more right wing .if something like this can become hijacked by the far left there isn't a lot of hope for western Europe in general. i think what happened was that back in the cold war or a little before that period Stalin promised to help the independence movement if they adopted communism back then communism was quite different from modern style wokness so the concept of left wing nationalism made more sense at the time since race was not an issue and it was all about economics. the social policy could be anything usually more conservative but not always .but nowadays in the west there is a new form of leftism so called wokness and the west European left mindlessly adopted this ideology without taking the voters opinions into account. and its really not compatible with nationalism its the total opposite. but these politicians don't have any competition so they can just do what they want.
There is plenty of hope for Europe left. Not a single nation has fallen.
Maybe you need to go home and stop putting your ideas on others
I am home.